User Avatar Image

Ben

posted by Platinumb on - last edited - Viewed by 453 users

Why the constant hatred?

89 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @BenIsKindaCool said: But Ben is a human too..I know that everyone's gonna say now ''He deserved it,he's a fucking idiot and he lied to everyone'' but he understands what he did was wrong.Now,if you were Ben and you had done something like this,what would you do?Confess it? I don't think so..And don't come here and say ''I would never be so stupid to do something like give bandidts our stuff'',cause everyone is..

    How could he make everything right if they won't let him do anything..?



    Yes i would have confessed. Probably at the motor inn and if not then certainly on the side of the road. I don't think i could stand by while a friend is aggressively accused and eventually killed for my crime.

    One quote when Carley getting Lee to confess is quite useful here "there's never going to be a good time, but there will be plenty of bad ones". After his mistake has already blown the group apart is definitely a bad one. The initial mistake doesn't actually have too dire consequences. The lack of trust is what really totaled the group.

    Its important to face up to and deal with your mistakes and that's what Ben didn't do.

  • I like Ben as a person, but he has no idea how to handle tough situations.

  • @double_u said: Ben's deal set off the chain of events that got many people killed. He must bear some of the responsibility. In fact, Ben himself feels guilty about getting all the people killed because of the deal for the rest of the game. A guilty conscience needs no accuser, or so the saying goes. He knows what he did was wrong.

    He should've have told the group that he made the deal, so they would have planned accordingly. This is the part I really hate about him. If he was that scared of Lilly, he could have at least told Lee and Kenny because those two saved his life. Lee's investigation proceeded the way it did because Lee and Lilly didn't know about the deal. When the attack came, the group was caught off guard.

    Rommel49 made a really great post elsewhere on this forum too. He explained that by making that deal, Ben placed the entire group at constant risk because Lee, etc. would have to risk their lives more often to do supply runs in Macon. Plus, what if someone got sick and needed medicine that was given to the bandits?

    And really? Lee's not at fault for Duck being bitten. Lee, Carley, and Lilly were the only ones who were able to lay down covering fire against the bandits and walkers. They were in no position to run around and grab people to safety.

    Either way, Ben should have told the group about the deal so they could've planned ahead.



    We don't have to expect Ben to go walker slaying at that moment. But like you said, the least he could've done is grabbed Clem and run. That way Chuck would not had to sacrifice himself.



    And he's the crappiest lookout in the world. He was sitting on top an RV, and yet the bandits managed to sneak in despite the fact there was a road's width of open space which makes sneaking up very difficult. Remember how Lilly saw movement in the woods before Lee even reached the road in episode 2? Remember how Carley managed to see the St. John's at GROUND level in episode 2? Ben can't even see a large group of bandits from an elevated level. That's pretty useless right there.

    And the whole "he's just a teen" thing isn't something I really buy. This is an ZA, and Ben needs to know how to handle things for the same reason Chuck emphasized to Lee why Clem needed to toughen up. If we look at our own world, there's plenty of "teens" in Third World countries where doing the work of "grown men" is expected because life is tough.



    Lee has no fault in Duck being bitten? Really? If you believe this play the attack on the motel again and watch what Lee does when he's supposed to be covering Clem's, Kat's, and Duck's retreat to the RV. Lee drops a few bandits and Clem breaks for the RV first, does Lee continue with his duty and keep protecting Kat and Duck until they too can reach the safety of the RV? No he thinks it more important to neglect this duty, drop his rifle, and give Clementine a reassuring hug before she boards, allowing the walker ample time to attack Kat and Duck. If he would have would waited until everyone had boarded to hug his "little darling" and check that she was alright, Duck would not have been bitten, and the tragic scenario that followed would have been averted. If Kenny knew what Lee did what do you think his reaction would have been? But for some reason all this is glossed over and the entire thing is always laid at the feet of the favorite punching bag. "Lee could never do something so stupid or selfish, thats what Ben's for!". Yes Ben had a hand in the attack of the motel, his deal was also responsible for the bandits halting the previous attacks on the group and leaving them in peace. Ben's major screwup here was not going to the group and telling them of the bandits deal offer and letting everyone decide. But Duck being bitten, and the subsequent death of he and Kat was directly due to the negligence of Lee.

  • @BenIsKindaCool said: No,Carley got herself killed.If she just wouldn't say all that shit to Lilly,she'd be alive..Truth hurts :/

    Anywho,I think that the one's who hate Ben will never stop hating him.Everybody's got their own opinion and we can't change it.But even in real life,I couldn't just let someone go (like Ben in The belltower) even if I Hated him/her.Maybe only when (s)he was super dangerous,But Ben was just young and stupid.He was sorry for everything he had done and from the beggining of episode 2 he wanted to just help with something.But because he couldn't do nothing in past episodes he started to not care in episode 4.And c'mon,if you have no-one left in ZA then Who wouldn't wanna help their friend..
    ..But The belltower place scared me.If that was fucking Larry there,hanging and you would have The same option to pull him up (don't ask how) or let him go.Then what?He's been an ass with you this whole time and never felt sorry,But Ben,The only thing he's been doing IS apologizing (?) ...
    But it's just a videogame character (for now) so I can't,and I wouldn't really blame everyone being nonsensles,coldhearted bastards.But I am tottaly OK if you hate Ben.But just killing him like THAT.. :/



    I don't understand hating him. Being annoyed when he makes stupid moves or does stupid things is one thing, but flat-out hating him? No, it makes no sense.

  • @Zeruis said: Carley would've still been alive if Ben confessed in the first place. He'd die instead.



    It's possible she would have jumped in front of him, like Doug. Or maybe if Ben would have fessed up, Lilly would have calmed down a little and tried to deal with it more calmly because she figured at least NOW he's telling the truth.

    As someone else said, ifs, ands, or buts...

  • @SeriousScar said: If you don't know why everyone hates Ben you either didn't play the same game we did or you lack the capacity to judge the actions and qualities of other people.

    I'm not explaining what has already been explained by the others in this thread, instead I'll add what hasn't.

    Ben is an idiot. The game points this out quite clearly for you in what I guessed was supposed to be a comical moment. When he removes the axe that was barring the blood soaked door, if it had been a sitcom you would have heard a trumpet (?): "wah wah waaaah".



    I still think Ben removing that axe was a mishap of the game. There were zombies clawing at that door every time Lee passed it, and then suddenly Ben walks by and they're all gone? Makes little sense, unless the zombies are suddenly getting "smarter."

  • @Platinumb said: It's possible she would have jumped in front of him, like Doug. Or maybe if Ben would have fessed up, Lilly would have calmed down a little and tried to deal with it more calmly because she figured at least NOW he's telling the truth.

    As someone else said, ifs, ands, or buts...



    Maybe it would have helped, maybe it wouldn't have, but i could have had respect for him if he had done that. Stepped up to the plate to take the heat off a friend. That's the problem, I dont hate Ben, but when everyone needs each other you can't respect a coward. Its the same thing that makes him leave clem. He doesn't mean it and it shows in his guilt, but... come on man!

  • @ZeroShoot said:
    I understand he's a teenager, and he doesn't know about his family which is on his mind like probably all the time, but seriously he is given easy tasks like: "watch Clementine" and he fucks that one up twice, letting her play in the backyard all alone is just stupid, walkers could be around every corner, what if they got through that gate? she might be dead..


    :



    If you notice, he was hanging out with Kenny, who was getting drunk off his *** and probably talking about his family TO Ben, who was feeling guilty about giving supplies to the bandits and like Katjaa's and Duck's deaths were his fault. His emotional state was probably wrecked (this is confirmed when he tells Lee he has to be honest with Kenny at the school), and I gather that is why he didn't keep his eye on Clementine.

    And yeah, he's nasty about failing to watch Clementine with Lee, but I think that that was not because he didn't care about Clementine. I think it was because of the emotional turmoil of thinking he killed Kenny's family and here Kenny is talking about them to him, and maybe he even thinks Clem can take care of herself better than he can take care of her. (After all, she kills a zombie to save Molly at Crawford in front of him or he comes home to see she protected a sick Omid from a zombie who broke in the house if you leave her with a gun.)

    I'm not justifying Ben's ineptitude with even a simple task like watching a kid, but I can understand the guilt. At the end of the day, shouldn't Kenny, who is also an adult, feel some sort of responsibility for watching a little girl, even if he's lost his own family? I don't think it's heartless of me to say that. Here he is, getting drunk when a young girl, a teenage boy, and his best friend, not to mention a pregnant woman and an injured man, are depending on him when he's one of the few able-bodied men left. He's in deep emotional turmoil over the deaths of his family, but so is Ben with guilt, and while nobody but Lee knew that, Lee knew when he gave Ben the babysitting duties.

  • @Mornai said: i think it's highly likely Ben had more than two friends in the entire world. Plus, if Lee chooses to threaten Ben when he reveals that he was the one giving them supplies, why would he lie? Lee outright says he can toss him off the train and nobody would know. There was absolutely no reason to lie there, especially if he knew his life was in danger.

    I think Ben giving them supplies had no beneficial effects whatsoever. The bandits stopped attacking, but in a way i think this was worse. They completely halted all the attacks, giving the group a false sense of security, as if they had forgotten about them. Thus they let their guard down, and were unprepared for the sudden raid the bandits launched when they didn't find the supplies.

    Had Ben not given them supplies, the group would have been more alert and always prepared due to the constant attacks.



    I'm not saying Ben didn't have more than Travis and Mr. Parker. I'm saying that by the time Ben ended up in their camp, he was telling everybody there "It was just us three." But now thinking about it, maybe it was because during the bandit raid, the bandits had kidnapped a female friend or something and he didn't want to tell a new group?

    I'm not sure if the group would have been more alert. Lilly was solely in charge of security when Kenny and Lee were gone; the motel might have been attacked when she was busy trying to figure out about supplies with Ben in charge of lookout duties and NO men able to protect the kids and Katjaa.

  • @The Fallen said: Yes i would have confessed. Probably at the motor inn and if not then certainly on the side of the road. I don't think i could stand by while a friend is aggressively accused and eventually killed for my crime.

    One quote when Carley getting Lee to confess is quite useful here "there's never going to be a good time, but there will be plenty of bad ones". After his mistake has already blown the group apart is definitely a bad one. The initial mistake doesn't actually have too dire consequences. The lack of trust is what really totaled the group.

    Its important to face up to and deal with your mistakes and that's what Ben didn't do.



    Ben had no idea Lilly was going to shoot Carley.

    It was getting highly aggressive and Lilly was getting very threatening. I think Lee should have grabbed the gun out of Lilly's hand the minute she said "You have until Kenny deals with this walker to say it was you."

Add Comment