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Ben

posted by Platinumb on - last edited - Viewed by 476 users

Why the constant hatred?

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  • @Platinumb said: That's cause Lee (and potentially Carley) had super-shooting skills.



    Lol, and they would not have them when the Bandits attacked earlier?!?

  • @Robbingrobin said: Lol, and they would not have them when the Bandits attacked earlier?!?



    The Bandits didn't attack before, they just harassed them (arrows in the wall). It also made a huge difference that it was Ben on watch who was expecting them and so didn't raise the alarm. Had it been Carley or Lilly they probably wouldn't have got close.

  • @Robbingrobin said: Lol, and they would not have them when the Bandits attacked earlier?!?



    the bandits didn't get over the wall during the previous attacks, I would presume.

    it's harder to shoot from a long distance when you don't have a sniper. and I'm quite sure they don't?

  • @Platinumb said: Kenny isn't the "leader of the group." Depending on how you play, Lilly can be, or Lee can claim they're "Democratic." In fact, Kenny seems to argue that the group should be more democratic whereas Lilly wants to run an empire.


    Ben didn't kill anyone. The bandits did. And Ben's actions did get them to stop attacking, so he might have helped bring about a couple weeks of peace. I think Lee should have gone to help Clem, Katja, and Duck prior to Ben and Doug/Carley. That would have prevented Duck from being bitten.

    Katja chooses to kill herself.

    Doug and Carley choose to protect Ben - because he's A TEEN BOY.

    Chuck put himself in harm's way. Ben couldn't have protected Clem, or he might have but then would have wound up getting killed. (He would have run out of bullets. Chuck had a shovel.) At any rate, if anything maybe Ben should have grabbed Clem's hand and tried to run.

    Kenny chooses to give up his life to be with Ben. Ben doesn't cause that.

    It's not that I dislike Kenny. He's one of my favorite characters. But he does choose to be a coward when it comes to helping out anybody but his family and those who go above and beyond to help his family.

    As for Ben - he does contribute to the group. He's often lookout (at the motel, at the train), he gets Lee's gun for him, and especially in Episode 5 he's the last one up the attic stairs and the last one jumping off the balcony. At the end of the day, he is just a teen boy, and expectations of him cannot be the same as that of a grown man.



    First lets look at episode 3.

    Really? Why sneak needed supplies away from the people you care about and give them to bandits? Why not tell the group what is going on and make a decision on how to proceed as a group? Instead he steals from his friends and ultimately brings the bandits down on the group. Resulting in Duck getting bitten, Carley/Doug getting shot. Lilly getting thrown out/leaving the group. And katja killing herself.

    None of this would have happened if Ben hadnt made secret deals with bandits.

    Now, Lets look at Episode 4.

    Ben and Clem are trapped by walkers. Lee Yells at Ben to save Clem. Ben looks at Clem then runs away, leaving Clem defenseless until a person with common sense saves her and ultimately gives up his life for her.

    You have to ask the question, if it is going to be you or a 9 year old girl to get ripped apart by walkers, who would it be? Would you be a selfish prick who leaves a 9 year old to get eaten, or would you be a hero who sacrifices your life for a child. Bens actions are that of a coward and could have easily left Clementine dead. Not Acceptable.

    Not to mention he got Vernans lady friend killed by removing the hatchet from the door keeping the walkers out. Also putting everyone in the group in danger.

    How about we look at Episode 5 now.

    He did grab Lees gun for him. Even though it was empty.
    In the end, his death was sad and I did vouch for him, for Clems sake. But I didnt like it. He was still a moron who caused almost everything bad to happen.

  • @J_Scheff said: First lets look at episode 3.

    Really? Why sneak needed supplies away from the people you care about and give them to bandits? Why not tell the group what is going on and make a decision on how to proceed as a group? Instead he steals from his friends and ultimately brings the bandits down on the group. Resulting in Duck getting bitten, Carley/Doug getting shot. Lilly getting thrown out/leaving the group. And katja killing herself.



    He was scared of Lilly. That doesn't justify him not telling others, but I have an inkling he might have told Carley (if you saved her). She was also up high, watching, even without a gun, in the direction of the "X." And she defended him from Lilly's accusations.

    Also, he wasn't a moron. He made up a communication system for the bandits that could have easily been deduced as the kids' scribbles.

    He WAS cowardly in the face of imminent danger.

  • @Robbingrobin said: We saw how well a attack on the motor inn worked. More than half of the bandits ended up dead or woundend and later dead. They acted more than stupid and should have acted in a other way, when they wanted to kill everybody there. Even if they wanted to threaten everyone to give them the medical supplies and food they have.



    actually there was no way to assess the number of bandits that died during the attack since we don't know how many there were in the first place or witnessed the events once the group escaped. we do know what saved the group from total annihilation was a hasty retreat not a battle to the last man. in the end the bandits got the supplies and weapons they wanted that the group left behind, IF they survived the walkers that is. yes the bandits could not be called military geniuses if in any of their attacks they would have had gunmen climb the trees and fire down overtop of the barricade from cover the group could have suffered unrecoverable losses. or they could have waited them out and set siege to the motel, not letting them make runs for food and water, and saved the ammo, and not risked the danger of a gun battle. no they weren't smart, but they were smarter than walkers, and therefore a bigger threat.

  • I don't hate Ben, even though I've called him retarded a few times. He is, but I don't hate him. He's also (or at least used to be) a huge coward. Personally, I agree that handing the bandits some supplies so that they stop trying to murder us is a good thing, but only as long as everyone knows about it. What if Lee got shot, or broke a leg on a supply run to Macon? Kenny barely manages to haul him back to the motor inn, blood everywhere and walkers on their tail, Lee starts to fade, so Lilly runs to get some medicine. But wait! There's a plot twist! There's not enough medicine to save him because someone didn;t let the group know that they didn't have as may supplies as they thought they did. Lee dies. Stuff like that could have happened to anyone because Ben never told the group. If he'd come forward with the bandits' offer before the raid, and asked what I thought, I'd tell him he was actually pretty smart to think of ggetting the bandits off our backs that way. Hell, I'd even go up to Lilly and say "We should really do this, sooner or later the bandits will get lucky." But nope. He kept it from us, which resulted in the raid. Then the group imploded.

    I'm not saying it was solely Ben. Everyone in the group had a part in its failure. Larry being an asshole to anyone who wasn't named Lilly, Kenny and Lilly always fighting to be the leader, Carley/Doug, Lee, Mark, and Katjaa for not getting more involved and letting the two of them slug it out like they did. Kenny killing Larry (even though I sided with him and think it had to be done, this was still an important factor). Ben's majorly stupid handling of the bandit situation was the final straw that broke the group, but it could have been prevented, or at least lessened if he'd actually come forward earlier.

    It's just a shame he dies no matter what. I actually started to warm up to the kid in Episode 5 (secondary save file. I dropped him in my main play). He actually stands up for himself, and doesn't feel obligated to always agree with Kenny because of Kat and Duck. He gains confidence and competence. When the walkers are breaking down the doors and storming the house, he isn't panicking. He's actively helping the group hold the line, and even manages to shoot two walkers in the stand at the attic ladder, which is quite impressive since we've never seen him fire a gun until that point. He has enough of what few wits he has about him, and saves Carley's Glock for Lee when he drops it. He even actually manages to be really quiet in the alley for someone who just got impaled through the chest by a metal spike after falling two stories. When the walkers are closing in, he doesn't say "Save me, please!", he just says "Don't let them get me!" He realized exactly how bad the situation was, and wanted them to just shoot him and run instead of dying trying to save him. Given enough time, he could have become an important and able member of the group. RIPieces Ben.

  • @Rock114 said: I don't hate Ben, even though I've called him retarded a few times. He is, but I don't hate him. He's also (or at least used to be) a huge coward. Personally, I agree that handing the bandits some supplies so that they stop trying to murder us is a good thing, but only as long as everyone knows about it. What if Lee got shot, or broke a leg on a supply run to Macon? Kenny barely manages to haul him back to the motor inn, blood everywhere and walkers on their tail, Lee starts to fade, so Lilly runs to get some medicine. But wait! There's a plot twist! There's not enough medicine to save him because someone didn;t let the group know that they didn't have as may supplies as they thought they did. Lee dies. Stuff like that could have happened to anyone because Ben never told the group. If he'd come forward with the bandits' offer before the raid, and asked what I thought, I'd tell him he was actually pretty smart to think of ggetting the bandits off our backs that way. Hell, I'd even go up to Lilly and say "We should really do this, sooner or later the bandits will get lucky." But nope. He kept it from us, which resulted in the raid. Then the group imploded.



    It seems that most of what Ben took for the bandits were hard drugs like Oxycontin for them to get high off of, not so much food or "necessary" medicine.

    Having drugs to relieve pain would be nice, but not necessary to heal someone from bad injury or illness.

    I agree 100% he should have confided in someone who wasn't Lilly, especially if Lee had been super-nice to him, but I have an inkling he might have in Carley just by the way she acted and where she was standing during the beginning of Episode 3.

  • @Rock114 said: He even actually manages to be really quiet in the alley for someone who just got impaled through the chest by a metal spike after falling two stories.



    I think he was numb/in shock at that point. He does say he thinks he hurt his leg; he probably can't even feel the spike in his chest :( (So I can't give him kudos for not screaming/carrying him on there!)

  • Oh another thing, he slipped the bandits supplies because they said they had a friend of his as a hostage, didn't he? I bet my ass he didn't even ask them something like: "okay, if you have my friend, what's his name?" Those are people who kill other people, attack them, threaten them, but Ben believes that there is no way they would lie to him?

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