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Kickstarter Corporate sabatoge from the Larry HD developers?

posted by BagginsKQ on - last edited - Viewed by 679 users

http://mixnmojo.com/news/Is-Paul-Trowe-of-Replay-Sabotaging-Other-Kickstarters

http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/viewthread/172/P90

It seems that one of the Producers over at Replay Games tries to sabatoge development on Space Adventure, and close down a few other "competing" kickstarter plans as well.

Based on posts on the Replay Games own kickstarter page, they were hoping to get the Two Guys and other Sierra alumni to join Replay Games, so they would have a better chance at getting into the Sierra license, partnering with Telltale if they had to.

Some at various forums that discovered this noted it looked like Trowe wanted to create a Sierra 2.0, with him being the next Ken Williams.

He may have since admitted to it, and apologized about this to the Two Guys... But wow!

http://www.spacequest.net/index.php/topic/286-controversy-paul-trowe-on-the-two-guys/page__st__20__p__2266#entry2266

But after that do you think Activision would trust him enough to even share in the Sierra license, let alone give it to his company? How much of anything he or his company Replay Games has claimed in the past can be considered true?

25 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
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    exo

    Whats your horse in this race MusicallyInspired? Why do you care if people talk about the shenanigans Paul pulled? I'll talk about them any chance I get, because I honestly dislike the guy. He sunk the Sam Suede kickstarter due to his bull. His apologies don't fix that.

    People still talk about the debacle of Ion Storm (daikatana among other things), Duke Forever, Limbo of the Lost, and a multitude of other gaming incidents. What makes Paul's situation so unique that we should all just bury it simply because your tired of it?

    Mindsets like that are the reason politicians don't have to worry about what they do until the year before re-election. If Paul pulls a successful LSL Reloaded rabbit out of his hat, and then follows it up with another success, then ok - I'll chalk it up to a "retarded phase". But until then, he still has to prove himself... to me at least.

  • My personal opinion on Trowe is that while is actions don't make him a terrible person, they are completely unforgivable from a business, professional, and trust standpoint.

    Making fake accounts to speak poorly about other projects? Threatening lawsuits even though Al had given the Sam Suede devs permission to use his likeness? That's unacceptable, especially in a new era where the developers and gamers have more intimate contact than ever before.

    It also makes me question the communication between Al and Paul. Either there was none regarding Sam Suede, or when Paul overreacted Al decided he didn't care that Sam Suede had used his name without permission and just wanted to quell the situation. But how could Al and Paul not be on the same page with Sam Suede?

    I have nothing against Trowe. I'd overlook his behavior from the standpoint of being human/flawed/etc. and having stretches of poor judgment, but professionally I'd never trust him. Not to mention the bitterness he shows at ex-Sierra devs not joining him to make a New Sierra, or arguing on Twitter and calling his kickstarter supporters "jackasses" (I think that was the word he used) when they had legitimate questions about what was going on with Adventure Mob.

    It's a good thing Josh Mandel took the PR reins. But the repeated behavior by Trowe was enough to leave a lasting impression on many people about him and possibly about the production of the game. It wasn't just one isolated incident. It was a string of them. I'm not a backer so I cannot comment on how the game is progressing. However, from what I've gathered in various discussions around the web, they haven't done as much work as one would expect.

    I still wish Replay the best, but it's just my simple observation and probably silly opinion that they are very poorly managed, evidenced by multiple instances of public outbursts/shenanigans by Trowe.

  • @inm8#2 said: However, from what I've gathered in various discussions around the web, they haven't done as much work as one would expect.

    Alpha build for the game is expected sometime in the next week or so. I'd say things are moving along at a fairly steady clip.

  • My reason is simple. The Two Guys and the Space Pope have been trying to shut down the anti-Trowe train to save relations for the sake of Al Lowe, Josh Mandel, and the good of their project. I don't see any reason to badmouth Trowe (and therefore the entire Larry project) when the two developers (Al and Josh) deserve to see their project through to the end without any bad blood. No, I'm no fan of Trowe, but he's a problem all to himself and he's caused problems for Josh and Al as much as he has SpaceVenture and anyone else he was after. But he's since shut his mouth to keep himself from putting his feet in it time and time again and from burning bridges everywhere he goes. I think it's worth it to just put it behind us and let these projects speak for themselves.

    I just don't believe that somebody like Paul Trowe is worth mentioning or bringing up. ESPECIALLY after what he did. Don't give him any more attention. He's not worth it. I don't believe Paul needs to prove anything. He mistakenly took the PR role when it was never his place to do so. He's not a public figure and should never have been. He's not designing Larry Reloaded or spearheading anything. He's just in charge of Replay Games. He should stick to that job and stay in the shadows and give the people who are actually developing the game the limelight. And he has. I don't believe Paul Trowe should be synonymous with their project because, really, he has nothing to do with it, as far as designing goes. The way it's been, whenever anybody thinks of Replay Games or Larry Reloaded they automatically think Paul Trowe, which is wrong. The only way to fix that is to remove him from the public mind as much as possible. I'm not saying people should stop talking about him because I'm tired of it, I'm saying people should stop talking about him because he's a nobody and doesn't deserve that much attention. He just has nothing to do with anything. Other than his strange obnoxious and selfish attitude, that is.

  • @allaboardfilms - Yea, I saw that. I didn't mean to imply they haven't done anything on the game, but even in threads on this forum there are varying opinions of how far they actually are.

    I interpret them saying the "alpha build" is coming to mean the end of the alpha phase. That is, it would be the preclude to the beta phase. But I'm not a dev so I don't want to guess at something I don't know too well and piss someone off.

  • This all seems like much ado about nothing. Wow, someone posted a few comments about another game project and did so under an anonymous/fake name. Stop the presses! How will we ever recover? Besides, how many of you have never gotten a little carried away with online comment posting? At least it shows the guy in charge of Replay has a lot of passion, even if he acts rashly. Yeah, he acted badly, apologized, and we've moved on.

    The more interesting and exciting news is that a new, modern Larry project is coming in a few months. This new game will apparently have a more robust script than almost any other Larry game, with more opportunity for the player to explore/examine/interact with the virtual environment. That is what I am more focused on. There is a large team of hard-working, talented, seasoned pros (including Al Lowe and Josh Mandel) who shouldn't be bothered or hurt by this silly, tired, old drama that a few forum posters want to try to keep alive.

    The new Larry game is looking like it will be a hit. This is great news, since this is the kind of comeback a truly great series like Leisure Suit Larry deserves.

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    Jennifer Moderator

    I wrote that mixnmojo article last year, so it is old news now. But what Paul Trowe did was harmful (he contacted large news sites about a supposed lawsuit that Al Lowe never intended on making), and ended up killing the Sam Suede kickstarter dead in the water since the lawsuit article made it sound like Al Lowe wasn't involved in the game when his entire game design layout was still in place (and Al Lowe approved having his name attached to the project).

    After the news of his sabotage came to play, the troll account stopped posting, but the damage was already done (and as far as I know Paul Trowe never apologized for the Sam Suede sabotoge, only the sabotoge he did to SpaceVenture).

    But you're right, now that Josh Mandel is the spokesperson of Replay Games, and Al Lowe and Josh Mandel have full control of the project, Leisure Suit Larry Reloaded seems to be getting on track.

    Hopefully the Sam Suede team will be able to successfully try kickstarter again (or find funding to complete their game). Then this whole business can be completely put in the past.

  • That's terrible. I hope the Sam Suede team makes another attempt to get funded.

  • User Avatar Image
    exo

    @inm8#2 said:
    It also makes me question the communication between Al and Paul. Either there was none regarding Sam Suede, or when Paul overreacted Al decided he didn't care that Sam Suede had used his name without permission and just wanted to quell the situation. But how could Al and Paul not be on the same page with Sam Suede?

    Supposedly Al did consulting work with the Sam Suede developers several years ago. As in, far enough back that Trowe wasn't aware of it. And even once he became aware of the fact that Al *did* in fact work with them, Paul then felt as if they were trying to capitalize on the success of LSL Reloaded's kickstarter. The irony here? Reloaded languished in non development for 6 months, and then jumped on kickstarter to capitalize on the success of Double Fine's new adventure. Either way, he should have handled it quietly, and directly with the Sam Suede guys. Instead he jumped out there, burned bridges, and generally acted like a child.

    @inm8#2 said: My reason is simple. The Two Guys and the Space Pope have been trying to shut down the anti-Trowe train to save relations for the sake of Al Lowe, Josh Mandel, and the good of their project. I don't see any reason to badmouth Trowe (and therefore the entire Larry project) when the two developers (Al and Josh) deserve to see their project through to the end without any bad blood.

    First - their project is already funded and already going forward. You make sound like the fate of the project rests on not reminding people of the Trowe Troll. Second, Josh wasn't even on board with the project when a lot of this went down. It's not "his" project. He is an employee of replay games, and Paul is his boss. This is, and always has been, Paul's baby. Just because Josh is a stand-up guy does not mean I'm going to turn a blind eye to Paul.

    @inm8#2 said: This all seems like much ado about nothing. Wow, someone posted a few comments about another game project and did so under an anonymous/fake name. Stop the presses! How will we ever recover? Besides, how many of you have never gotten a little carried away with online comment posting? At least it shows the guy in charge of Replay has a lot of passion, even if he acts rashly. Yeah, he acted badly, apologized, and we've moved on.

    ...

    The new Larry game is looking like it will be a hit. This is great news, since this is the kind of comeback a truly great series like Leisure Suit Larry deserves.

    Wow... you make so many comments without knowing anything about what you are talking about. Try reading before writing. I specifically said above (and jennifer repeated it right after this), that Paul's actions killed the Sam Suede kickstarter. So thanks to this "much ado about nothing", you no longer have the opportunity to play an original game that Al Lowe helped to design.

    You have the audacity to say that he caused no harm what-so-ever, and then one comment later say, "oh, that's horrible..." Had you simply read what others, including myself, had already written, you would have known about this.

    Paul attacks Chris Pope personally (from a fake account no less), and you spin that into "passion"? Well hell, with that mentality, Castro was just passionate about communism. Oswald was just passionate about sniping presidents. The south was just passionate about slavery. No one has ever actually done anything wrong, they have just been "passionate". That's a crock.

    People in business don't want to work with "passionate" people who cause bad PR, kill projects, and very nearly kill their own project. What you call passion, others call immature and childish. Paul is very lucky that he managed to get Josh on board, as that man has single handedly brought a level of respect back to the project.

    As far as saying the new game is "looking like it will be a hit"... based on what? Some redrawn backgrounds? Seriously man, I'm not saying you should condemn the project, but at least factor in evidence and not just wishful thinking into the equation.

    You seem to mistake caution and skepticism (based on real world actions, not made up ones) with irrational dislike. I do not want LSl Reloaded to fail. But like Jennfier, I am extremely skeptical of how far along it is. You forgot to mention in your "Al Lowe recap" above that the release date just slipped again.

    All we know about the game is the backgrounds are "almost done", the text is "almost done", and an alpha is out in about 2 weeks that according to Al himself is extremely buggy. Music is being worked on, but it is unclear how far along it is. Those are facts, not hopefuly wishes and fairy dust. And it is also a fact that if you look at when the project started, Oct 11', it has taken them roughly a year and a half to get that far... and yet they only have about 3 months to finish. It is not impossible. But it begs questions, like - will it suffer in the quality department? Will it be rushed? Will the release date slip again?

    Those questions are not asked because anyone here dislikes Paul, or any of that. Those questions are asked because of the FACTS that currently exist. You are completely entitled to believe the new game "looks like it is going to be a hit". But unless you can present some facts to back that up, then your opinion holds no weight among people like me who use FACTS to form their opinion.

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