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One way the "new group" scenario could present a problem in season 2

posted by Robert Morgan on - last edited - Viewed by 376 users

Let's suppose for a moment that Telltale decides to cast the player among a new band of survivors in the next game. If the survivors stumble across any plot threads or characters left over from the previous five episodes, the player would be privy to information about them the PC within the game wouldn't.

For example, the new group happens to bump into Lilly. Depending on how Lee left her, she could be living a semi-feral existence in the woods, or using the stolen RV as her home. The new PC wouldn't be sure if Lilly is trustworthy, but we (the player) would know for certain that she isn't trustworthy, based on her actions in the last game.

The easiest solution would be to have Clementine as the PC, but as other forum members have pointed out, this has its own set of creative challenges too.

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  • This is why I have mixed-feelings about bringing season 1 survivors back for the second season. I'd love to find how Clem,Christa,Omid,Lilly and Molly are doing but I also feel the prior knowledge players have,and the "baggage" these characters carry,could be detrimental for a lot of players.

    Take Lilly and Vernon and his group for example.They could assist and act decent towards the new protagonist group but I suspect that a lot of players would be very distrustful and just be waiting for the "I MUST KILL!!!" option and would be very aggrieved if it didn't happen.
    While it would give them a sense of power and a long awaited revenge it wouldn't really make any sense for the new protagonist to act this way.New protagonist:"DIE BITCH!/BASTARD! for something you did to another person that I have no knowledge of and don't care about"?!
    Unless Telltale decide to have Lilly/Vernon screw over this protagonist,or the player was role playing a murderous psychopath, it would make very little sense.Maybe the satisfaction would be enough and it's up to them how they want to play the game,it's a game about choices after all...

    What about Clementine? wouldnt a lot of players want to to continue the bond they had with her an thus turn the new guy/girl into a Lee "clone" and keep comparing how it was with Lee?
    What if Telltale had Clemintine be part of the new season by joining the new group but a friendly couple within the group(with a child or two of their own) become her new carers/family, rather than the single protagonist?
    Clementine could be happy with this arrangement but I suspect that it could cause some resentment and jealousy for some players, "Why Telltale? Clementine is mine not theirs!"

    One way I can see them dealing with Lilly is for Telltale to use your choices from the first season and have her appear for one episode.If your saves show you were against Lilly and decided to abandon her,then it means she has become a more ruthless lone wolf character who lives alone and attacks,kills,deceives and uses fellow survivors.This would create conflict with the new character and give a legitimate reason for the new guy/girl to hate her and it also allows the player to finally get an option to put her down and get their own satisfaction for Carley/Doug,if they so wished.

    Alternatively,if your saves showed you were mainly positive towards Lilly and also decided to give her a chance and take her with you it means she has found a new group to join and has a more positive outlook and is trying to help her fellow survivors,due to the fact that she feels a great guilt for what she did and his trying to redeem her self for killing Carley/Doug.

    Clementine's character could be influenced by what Lee taught and told her but bringing her into the new group will,I suspect,cause some complexions to the storytelling due to the prior knowledge players have of her and Lee's bond.

    I feel that Christa,Omid and Molly are more "neutral" characters and therefore would be easier to include in the new season.Christa's pregnancy may be more obvious from the start and could bring an interesting and maybe heartbreaking element into the story.

    I'm really interested to see what Telltale have planned and I do hope there will be some kind of connection to the first season rather than starting from scratch without any connection at all to the first season.

    Sorry for the long post.

  • @FarmerJoe said: This is why I have mixed-feelings about bringing season 1 survivors back for the second season. I'd love to find how Clem,Christa,Omid,Lilly and Molly are doing but I also feel the prior knowledge players have,and the "baggage" these characters carry,could be detrimental for a lot of players.

    Take Lilly and Vernon and his group for example.They could assist and act decent towards the new protagonist group but I suspect that a lot of players would be very distrustful and just be waiting for the "I MUST KILL!!!" option and would be very aggrieved if it didn't happen.
    While it would give them a sense of power and a long awaited revenge it wouldn't really make any sense for the new protagonist to act this way.New protagonist:"DIE BITCH!/BASTARD! for something you did to another person that I have no knowledge of and don't care about"?!
    Unless Telltale decide to have Lilly/Vernon screw over this protagonist,or the player was role playing a murderous psychopath, it would make very little sense.Maybe the satisfaction would be enough and it's up to them how they want to play the game,it's a game about choices after all...

    What about Clementine? wouldnt a lot of players want to to continue the bond they had with her an thus turn the new guy/girl into a Lee "clone" and keep comparing how it was with Lee?
    What if Telltale had Clemintine be part of the new season by joining the new group but a friendly couple within the group(with a child or two of their own) become her new carers/family, rather than the single protagonist?
    Clementine could be happy with this arrangement but I suspect that it could cause some resentment and jealousy for some players, "Why Telltale? Clementine is mine not theirs!"

    I think the answer to both problems is to make Clementine a supporting member of the new group being suggested. It serves both the purpose of allowing people to see the effects of decisions they made in the first season and creates a credible source for how new characters are being informed of events from the past season.

    Instead of seeking new caretakers, Clementine could act as a more independent person in order to demonstrate her personal growth and how Lee’s teachings affected her. All the while it avoids a repeat of the parent/child dynamic of the first season. Not that the parent/child thing wasn’t good, but repeating it with a new character would cheapen Lee and Clem’s relationship and I also feel it’d be more interesting to see the next step in the cycle, which is how the child acts as they come into their own.

    Specifically, it would be a unique experience to play a character who doesn’t form a specific bond with Celementine or can influence her. Instead she acts as a independent member of the group and her actions are a direct result of Lee’s influence on Clem. Such as, if you taught her killing the St. John’s was necessary, Clem states a desire to eliminate people who are threatening the group. Or if you taught her the opposite she objects to killing even people who mean ill to others.

    This would allow players of the first season to reflect on their decisions and let them see if they were the right decisions. It could create reactions like “What did I teach this girl? How could she say that!” if the outcome of these decisions go against what they wanted for Clem or even “Yeah! That’s my girl!” if Clem’s actions reinforce their beliefs. If you told her to not trust anyone you can see Clementine act very standoffish with a new group where if you told her to seek a new group she acts more social.

    The other added benefit of Clementine being a supporting member of a new group of people is she can inform them of past history with any season one characters in a way that seems natural. For example, if Lilly somehow became involved with this new group, Clem could at some point inform the others of Lilly’s past, and how she does this can vary depending on how Lee himself reacted to Lilly’s actions.

    This has the benefits of allowing the continuation of plot threads from the first game with new characters and can also serve to create plot twists for players who did not try season one. Something like the afore mentioned Lilly example and how it plays how can serve as a continuation of season one players’ feelings towards her character, while serving as a plot twist to people who didn’t play season one. For season one players it would feel personal but for others who skipped season one it’d be another difficult decision since they wouldn’t know the entire history from the person in question.

  • The new game should have Clem as the protagonist, 7 years into the Zombie Apocalypse.

  • @DAISHI said: The new game should have Clem as the protagonist, 7 years into the Zombie Apocalypse.

    It has been established time and time again that this wouldn't work.

  • they could make a few episodes that were entirely about a whole new group of survivors that aren't connected to season 1 at all so we could get to know the new protagonist and their group, then we could save Clementine from danger creating an initial bond and trust (or maybe Clementine saves us), then whenever there are any links to season 1 (characters/locations) Clementine should say she knows about it then we could get the chance to ask her perspective on the things we see, i think her point of view would be interesting and it would also allow us to use our previous knowledge without it feeling like we are cheating, and also if Clementine's perspective was slightly different to ours from the first season we can choose to totally trust Clementine's perspective or make up our own mind based on the information we have and what we think the new protagonist would do based on what we have got to know about them.

    or you could have Clementine in it from the start, but without any links to the first season for a while so we can get to know the new protagonist.

    or it could be entirely new people without Clementine but for every time there was a link to the first season it would either have to be a subtle nod/reference or have someone or something explain the scenario that links to the first season so the new protagonist can be almost as informed about it as us

  • @Riadon said: It has been established time and time again that this wouldn't work.

    There's nothing 'established' about anything.

  • @DAISHI said: There's nothing 'established' about anything.

    there have been a lot of discussion about an older Clementine, and for something like 7 years in the future the world could have changed so much, the zombies would probably be mostly dead and the military/people could have started to recover by then, but considering TWD is the creation of Robert Kirkman writing a story about his universe in the future would either need a lot of guidance/supervision from Kirkman himself or they may just go in a totally different direction to what he would have wanted and create a lot of continuity problems.

    but as i said there has been a lot of discussions about this on these forums already and i think that is what Riadon meant when they said 'established'

  • @Jaded X Gamer said: I think the answer to both problems is to make Clementine a supporting member of the new group being suggested. It serves both the purpose of allowing people to see the effects of decisions they made in the first season and creates a credible source for how new characters are being informed of events from the past season.

    I must say, i agree with all of your points, and that is a common occurrence. I'm far too dull to put such thoughts into magnificent posts as yours, however. :)

    @Jaded X Gamer said: There's nothing 'established' about anything.

    I believe he meant it likely won't work because this game is based on the comic series. What happens and doesn't happen in the comic are very likely to influence what does and doesn't occur in the game. The timeline in the comic has only reached about a year or two into the apocalypse, and going nearly a decade into the future could cause further continuity errors between the game and comic.

    For example...the game will probably never reveal what caused the apocalypse, nor will it likely invent a cure for the "virus", because neither of these have happened in the comic. When Telltale removed all references to Lilly being the same as the comic version(after Kirkman changed it up), it seems clear they want to maintain continuity between the two forms of media, and going that far into the future has massive potential for such errors.

  • These are all brilliant ideas!!!!!!!!!! I think Lilly, Clem, Molly, and Christa and Omid need to return!!

  • I don't really know if it would present a problem, because I doubt that TTG would include chat/action options such as "I just don't trust this chick" lol. I also personally don't believe Lily will be making a reappearance in S2. Comic cameos are meant to be that - cameos. I'd be surprised if they brought her character back.
    I'd also be surprised if the characters ran across the St. John's before or after 'our' group ran across them. They're in a similar area, but it'd be silly to assume that they'd take the exact same paths. :P
    I expect to run into (as some point in S2 or S3, Clem, Omid & Christa, and possibly, possibly Kenny.

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