User Avatar Image

Telltale and Puzzles: A Rant.

posted by RAnthonyMahan on - last edited - Viewed by 1.7K users

Something tells me this post will somehow affect the job application I sent Telltale. Not sure if it's in a good or a bad way, but oh well. :p

First of all, I am happy for Telltale and what's happened to them since The Walking Dead. As both a long-time Telltale fan and a writer struggling to have his work appreciated (and thus ends up empathizing with other creative underdogs), I'm glad Telltale's been able to release something that's seen so much success, both commercially and critically.

At the same time, though, while The Walking Dead was amazing, it wasn't perfect. While it proved the Heavy Rain-style interactive movie genre can be done right, it's still a very limited format that doesn't allow much freedom for the player. The occasional interactive movie is fine (branching out and trying new things is good!), but I wouldn't want Telltale to focus exclusively on that genre, and unfortunately, with TWD having been such a boon for the company, that seems to be their plan. What raised this concern in me is Dan Connors' speech at the DICE Summit, specifically this quote.

@Dan Connors" said: How do we evolve it and make it more of a storytelling medium and less of a puzzle-based medium?

Needless to say, I have a few things to voice regarding Telltale's new direction. Note that I'm not saying any of this out of malice. I've been a fan of Telltale for a long time and would like to stay that way. I don't have anything against anyone there. Hell, if one of my books became a huge hit out of the blue, I'd do everything I could to replicate that success again too, so I know where they're coming from. I'd just like to pitch in my two cents and let everyone else decide what they're worth.

1. Story and gameplay are not mutually exclusive. There's this common idea with people that a game can have great story or great gameplay, but not both. They think strengthening one department means weakening another (and unfortunately, most games don't do much to prove them wrong). Even more distressingly, a few people flat-out discourage games focusing on story, since they believe it has to come at the cost of gameplay. They think being well-written is a flaw!

Telltale wants to focus more on storytelling. That's good. Telltale's writers are top-notch, and they should be able to tell even better stories than before. However, this does not have to come at the cost of gameplay, nor should it. A game doesn't need to be an interactive movie or a visual novel to be well-written. Purely off the top of my head, there's Deus Ex, Fallout, The Longest Journey, Psychonauts, and Silent Hill. All games that manage to excel in both gameplay and story. Just because few games even try to be great at both doesn't mean it's impossible.

2. Change is not always bad, but it's not always good either. A lot of where Telltale seems to be coming from is that not every adventure game needs to be the same. And that's true. I love those old adventure games to death, but they did go out of style for a reason. For most people those old, often cryptic (if not flat-out insane) "use X on Y" puzzles could be frustrating. Evolution is good. When Maniac Mansion came out, a lot of people complained that it wasn't a "true" adventure game because there was no text parser. Thing is, text parsers frequently led to annoying "guess the verb" situations. Since they could only recognize a limited selection of words, why not put those words out there for the player to choose from? That slowly led to the point-and-click interface, which I think we could all agree was a good thing. Telltale's right, there is more than one way to do an adventure game. Hell, it's a bit of a stretch, but look at Portal. It doesn't resemble a conventional adventure game at all, but there's a lot of focus on setting, plot, dialogue, and of course puzzles. It's something of an adventure game in spirit, if that makes sense.

I'm not complaining out of nostalgia. I'm not insisting Telltale stick to games like Sam and Max forever and never branch out (though it would be nice if they never fully abandoned their roots either). If the adventure genre wants to recover, it should evolve. If Telltale manages to come up with the next big thing that revolutionizes the genre, that'd be amazing. I hope they could do it.

The thing is, in my personal opinion, the interactive movie is not "the next big thing." It's not exactly new, for starters. Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit had done it before Telltale. You could call Dragon's Lair an early crude version of it too. If you really want to stretch it, you could call visual novels (and VN/adventure hybrids like Phoenix Wright and Hotel Dusk) the Japanese equivalent, only less like a movie and more like a book.

More important than that, however, is that in terms of engaging the player, it's a step backwards. Putting the story on hold so the player can solve a puzzle may not be the best way to blend gameplay and story, but at least it doesn't completely neglect the gameplay department. Interactive movies are supposed to make up for the limited gameplay with non-linearity (which The Walking Dead did, to an extent), but the problem is other genres can offer that and more. I'm not saying interactive movies should be avoided entirely, but they're not the way of the future either. Hardware has evolved on a massive scale. Games today should be more complex and allow the player more freedom than they did 20 years ago. Removing puzzles and giving the player some dialogue options and QTEs is not the way to do it. When it comes out, Fables should be more interactive than The Secret of Monkey Island, not less.

On top of that, while I'm no businessman, I'm not sure if copying The Walking Dead's formula will work out for Telltale in the long run. Let's be blunt. As great as The Walking Dead was, its quality was not why it sold. It sold because it shared the name of a TV show that's incredibly popular at the moment (yes I know the game is based off the comic, but the show is still what most people would think of). Fables will not have that same name recognition, especially since it won't even be called Fables. If Telltale wants Fables to attract anyone outside the already-existing fans of the comic, the game must be good on its own merits. This includes being well-written (which I'm sure Telltale already has covered), but it also includes being fun to play. Ditto for King's Quest, assuming that hasn't been cancelled yet.

To make a long story short, I'm glad Telltale is trying to change their gameplay, but that doesn't mean diminishing it. Instead of asking themselves "How do we remove the focus on gameplay?", they should ask "How do we make the gameplay feel more organic to the story?" How can we make the player's actions seem logical? It's hard for me to come up with specific situations, but for example, why is the main character grabbing this item? It'll be important later, but he doesn't know that. What's the in-universe reason?

Admittedly, I'm no game designer. The specific big idea that'll change adventure games forever won't come from me. But the guys at Telltale are talented. They've done great things already, and I know they've got the potential to do even better. They just have to try.

Let me know what you think.

121 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @Jake said:
    Would I like it if Telltale just stopped in its tracks and made a balls-to-the-wall retro adventure game Sam & Max puzzle fest, just once, to show that we can?

    Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea!

  • @WarpSpeed said: A lot of us with a "200" in our join date year came here in the first place because we're big adventure game fans.

    Now being fair here that. I don't think that's correct for everyone. There is people who only got introduced to the recently. For example, i almost never played Adventure Games until Wallace & Gromit came out which i was a big fan of the shorts and movie. So i got it and i enjoyed it a lot. Then one of my favorite reviewers said Sam & Max was a good game. Fair enough i didn't play any Sam & Max games until i got a PS3 and tried a demo of Sam & Max Season 3. I enjoyed the characters, and the comedy and i got the full game. Then i seen Tales of Monkey Island and it was made by Telltale who made Sam & Max season 3 which i really enjoyed so i got the demo of Tales of Monkey Island and i enjoyed that too.That's how i got into Adventure games anyway.

  • This thread, it's almost comical. I could practically make a rage comic out of it. It would probably go something like this:

    Panel 1:
    Fans: Y no TTG employees on the forum?!!!!! Telltale was so much better when the employees posted more!

    Panel 2:
    Telltale Employee: Hello, everyone! I'm here to answer all of your questions in a polite way that is also clear!
    Fans: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEE!

    Panel 3:
    Fans: Y no TTG employees on the forum?!!!!!

  • Man, such a zoo in here. So much anger.

    For one thing, I can't take someone named ryannumber1gamer seriously, and neither can anyone else. Second, I appreciate Jake actually trying to talk to us.

    But talking BACK is falling on dead ears, okay, guys. Stop with the expectations. Stop with the complaints. They don't get through. The angrier you get, the less you're going to accomplish. Also nobody is going to listen to me because I'm just a troll and a nutcase, durr durr durr. But they can't shut me up!

    Cause I'm not afraid to do the Lord's work.
    He say vengeance is his but I'mma do it first.

    @Alcoremortis said: This thread, it's almost comical. I could practically make a rage comic out of it. It would probably go something like this:

    Panel 1:
    Fans: Y no TTG employees on the forum?!!!!! Telltale was so much better when the employees posted more!

    Panel 2:
    Telltale Employee: Hello, everyone! I'm here to answer all of your questions in a polite way that is also clear!
    Fans: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEE!

    Panel 3:
    Fans: Y no TTG employees on the forum?!!!!!

    I mean, are we fans? No no no. We're a chemical mixture that makes chaos.

    We're.....we're Indian food.

    EDIT: And seriously, ryan, get a new name. I hate numbers and words that slur together in names. It's UGLY.

  • Secret Fawful, if adventure gamers want to express their concerns about Telltale's abandonment of adventure gaming fundamentals, then that's their right. Not sure it's your place to tell anyone here what to say or not say. Don't see the point in mocking people who are not fans of the direction in which Telltale is going. We love adventure games and want to make our voices heard.

    Anyway, if Jake isn't interested in hearing what adventure game fans want, then maybe he shouldn't read these forums. I hope he does participate often, though. Neither encouraged nor impressed by his comments here, though.

  • @Giant Tope said: Did you just stop reading his post after that sentence?

    No, I didn't, but I felt that it was an idea that shouldn't be ignored is all.

  • @MtnPeak said: Secret Fawful, if adventure gamers want to express their concerns about Telltale's abandonment of adventure gaming fundamentals, then that's their right. Not sure it's your place to tell anyone here what to say or not say. Don't see the point in mocking people who are not fans of the direction in which Telltale is going. We love adventure games and want to make our voices heard.

    Anyway, if Jake isn't interested in hearing what adventure game fans want, then maybe he shouldn't read these forums. I hope he does participate often, though. Neither encouraged nor impressed by his comments here, though.

    The Telltale forums is for fans of Telltale games, not necessarily classic adventure games. I think there are some forums out there that focus more on those sorts of games. While I understand the frustration of Telltale moving away from more puzzle based games, you have to understand there is a huge market for those wanting more of these cinematic games that is honestly pretty uncommon elsewhere.

    @MtnPeak said: Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea!


    Did you just stop reading his post after that sentence? :p

  • @MtnPeak said: Secret Fawful, if adventure gamers want to express their concerns about Telltale's abandonment of adventure gaming fundamentals, then that's their right. Not sure it's your place to tell anyone here what to say or not say. Don't see the point in mocking people who are not fans of the direction in which Telltale is going. We love adventure games and want to make our voices heard.

    Anyway, if Jake isn't interested in hearing what adventure game fans want, then maybe he shouldn't read these forums. I hope he does participate often, though. Neither encouraged nor impressed by his comments here, though.

    I've been following Telltale since they started, and maybe you have to. But from what I've seen, they've always decided on a direction and stuck with it so steadfastly that any different idea or any dissatisfaction is met with solid rebuttal and absolutely no change in their decisions.

    So at this point, I think actually expecting them to listen or change is futile and I've never seen any evidence of it. And honestly, Jake said he's happy. And I believe in the happiness of the developer before the happiness of the fans, even IF I DO NOT agree with their design philosophy or company direction.

    Everybody constantly trying to get somewhere with them at this point is just a joke to me. It's never happened, and it's not going to happen. They've tried pleasing us in the past anyway, and there's no real end to our wants. The amount of bitching the fans have done has killed any real progress solid debate and conversation could have.

    And how could they not be happy. Telltale broke expectations and have more critical success than they know what to do with. Individually, these guys can feel like a success, and we can't take that away from them. It also means that expecting them to cater to us is pretty silly at this point. It's over. That's all OVER. It's been over for a long time.

  • DOE WANT POINT AND CLICK BACK GOD I HATE YOU TELLTALE

    largeTransparent.gif

  • @Secret Fawful said: I've been following Telltale since they started, and maybe you have to. But from what I've seen, they've always decided on a direction and stuck with it so steadfastly that any different idea or any dissatisfaction is met with solid rebuttal and absolutely no change in their decisions.

    So at this point, I think actually expecting them to listen or change is futile and I've never seen any evidence of it. And honestly, Jake said he's happy. And I believe in the happiness of the developer before the happiness of the fans, even IF I DO NOT agree with their design philosophy or company direction.

    Everybody constantly trying to get somewhere with them at this point is just a joke to me. It's never happened, and it's not going to happen. They've tried pleasing us in the past anyway, and there's no real end to our wants. The amount of bitching the fans have done has killed any real progress solid debate and conversation could have.

    And how could they not be happy. Telltale broke expectations and have more critical success than they know what to do with. Individually, these guys can feel like a success, and we can't take that away from them. It also means that expecting them to cater to us is pretty silly at this point. It's over. That's all OVER. It's been over for a long time.

    That's precisely what I was thinking.

Add Comment