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Am I the only person who wouldn't "keep moving"? (Some spoilers)

posted by aguyuno on - last edited - Viewed by 1.4K users

I'm not gonna bother "tagging" spoilers in here, because I'll likely end up accidentally leaving one in there and people will get mad. Just know that there ARE some.

The thing that's always bugged me about the walking dead series, and really most zombie apocalypse things, is people find a group of people... but then never sit still with it. Why? There's no reason to keep moving. Find a town, buckle down and then clear that shit out.

In the comics, Rick tries that at one point with a prison. It ends badly for reasons I won't go into, but he still tries - It was a good idea. But clearly this isn't the only route to go by. Look at Crawford - They survived for AGES until one crazy pregnant woman went on a shooting spree through the town. And really, as long as you don't try to implement any idiotic "no children, or sick, etc" rules, thereby ensuring that your people only survive one generation, you shouldn't have this problem.

The dead have huge numbers, but beyond that they're slow and stupid. Get your group together with some bladed weapons, clear out a small patch of town (preferably somewhere with a building you can fortify that is big enough to house a lot of people, like a hospital [bonus if it still has beds and/or medicine]), and then push outwards from there. Will the dead ultimately try to push you out? Yes. But that's why you keep fighting.

I don't understand the concept of constantly moving from one place to the next. Why? The only thing that could EVER accomplish is finding new people, and let's be honest - that's not always a good thing. No, the best plan of attack in a situation like this is to REBUILD. If you die trying? Fine. At least you died taking a bunch of zombies with you. But truly, I don't think you will. If your group has at least, let's say 5 or more people with you, you should be fine for at least a while. And once you get yourself set in, people WILL find _you_. And if they don't? Send out scouts, find some. Place flyers around the place, who cares?

Anyway. That's just my rant here. Thoughts, anyone?

65 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @DreadMagus said: No - they move when they see "or" hear something that triggers their "interest". That is established setting lore. And they keep moving until something stops them or distracts them.

    That's how you end up with herds that follow trains for miles and miles and miles... even when they can't see or hear said train anymore.

    End of the day, it's irrelevant. They're either stupid enough to chase the next lightning bolt or be lead off intentionally. Again, not a difficult concept.

    Assumption.

    Being able to get corn from a cornfield is a pretty safe bet. That shouldn't require explanation. Everything else, that's a fact. That farming's one of the oldest human technologies? Fact. Seriously, why do you think the region around the fertile crescent is known as the cradle of civilization? That information on how to farm is recorded in things like books? No, that's a fact too.

    The bigger assumption that you're going to find lootable resources like non-perishable foods elsewhere.

  • Ok, I see I'm going to have to go slow for you.... again.

    If zombies dispersed so easily, they wouldn't be a threat anywhere... at all.... they'd be off chasing lightning bolts. Or rainbows..... or fucking unicorns.

    I mean, do you honestly believe that? :p

    As for your part 2.... You're still assuming - since obviously you couldn't grasp what I meant (an assumption on my part that you would) - I'll try to clarify.

    You're assuming that the walking cluster-fuck we can refer to as "season 1's characters" have the sense, foresight or ability to do that.

    Now let's compare it to what they did in their first three months.

    They didn't have enough sense to create a basic garden at the motel, nor build more than a fragile defense or even acquire weapons and tools and basic resources from the town.

    And you expect them to storm the farm, clean it out, rebuild it "and" set up a farm?

    You're giving them far too much credit.

  • @Rommel49 said: End of the day, it's irrelevant. They're either stupid enough to chase the next lightning bolt or be lead off intentionally. Again, not a difficult concept.

    Dude... have you watched the walking dead tv series? If so, remember how Rick was trying to lock down the outside of the prison to keep more walkers from getting into the courtyard? And some of the people behind the fences were to distract the zombies, but some still went after Rick. They aren't 'stupid'. If it comes between a butterfly or a human, the zombie most likely will chase the human. If it smells human blood(which also attracts them)
    nothing would distract them unless they couldn't see you and maybe smelled more blood. They are able to determine what is food and what is not, and that is what makes them dangerous. The tvs in ep 1 only distract them for a few minutes, and lightning or rain didn't keep them from attacking the farm. It doesn't interest them. Because by seeing a human they won't go after...say... a waterfall. They will continue to go after that human unless some other meaning of food comes along.

    @Rommel49 said:
    Being able to get corn from a cornfield is a pretty safe bet. That shouldn't require explanation. Everything else, that's a fact. That farming's one of the oldest human technologies? Fact. Seriously, why do you think the region around the fertile crescent is known as the cradle of civilization? That information on how to farm is recorded in things like books? No, that's a fact too.

    Not really, its been over 4 months since apocalypse. Corn will be dead. The season ended either in the winter or it just ending.

    @Rommel49 said:
    The bigger assumption that you're going to find lootable resources like non-perishable foods elsewhere.

    And no, that should be fairly common. Prescriptions, guns and ammunition, non-perishable foods or perishable, matches, flashlights, lanterns, traps, fishing equipment, farming equipment,etc. It's all gotta come from somewhere, and there was tons before the apocalypse started.

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    zjs

    @The Fallen said: Lets look at exactly where the deaths from the main group occur in the game.

    Savannah - 4 (Chuck, Kenny, Lee, Ben)
    While moving - 2 (Carley, Katjaa, Lilly leaves the group)
    St.Johns farm - 2 (Mark, Larry)
    Motel - 1 (Duck fatally wounded)
    Drug Store- 1 (Doug)

    Its pretty evident in hindsight that the 3 months or so spent at the motel was the groups peak, 3 casualties compared to 7 outside of that time. The walker threat is almost non existent during that time and thats despite the motel not being the best defended fort the worlds ever seen. Bunkering down somewhere is clearly the way to go or you'll die out pretty quickly if you have to constantly adapt to a new area.

    There are two big issues to combat, namely the supplies and the living. Unfortunately one of the first things i'd do once we'd fortified our home base is plan out thoroughly exactly we're going to go and how we're going to get there when we are inevitably forced to leave. That's the problem with getting the boat and going to the city in the game, its rushed and badly planned, over the three months i'd have done a lot of scouting. Find somewhere reasonably far away, prepare for it and move there when the time comes, rinse and repeat.

    People talking about years from now when the canned food and such goes off in 5 years or so, well thats a problem to think about if we're still alive in 4. Its hard to predict how well the walkers and bandits would still be surviving that far into the future.

    I have to say that the evidence points to on the move being the safest, if we're basing it off the world represented solely by the game.

    Who was killed on the move by walkers? Absolutely noone. Katjaa killed herself, Duck was wounded at the motel and Carley/Doug were killed by a human member of the group (and not as a consequence of being on the move).

    In reality, I'd say that yes, somewhere like the motel would be good in a way, but you have to remember that the group faced real problems with supplies - both of food and medical. Likewise, the only reason the group weren't attacked by bandits was that a member of the group was trading with them.

    Being on the move is tough and takes its toll, but you can keep getting new supplies, changing where you stay to avoid big hordes etc.

    Realistically, you'd probably start the apocalypse in a city. From there, you'd want to set up a few safehouses for yourself at first; different locations in case any are overrun, with food and water at each. You start moving to the outskirts of the city, collecting as many people and provisions as you can. From there, you travel by water to the ideal location: a large plot of land, somewhere warm, which has sea access. Ideally, it's a peninsula, so the land juts out. From there, you build a large wall/ditch around the house, use the land for farming and keep boats to travel into more open water to fish and travel out to skirmish for fuel/guns/ammo/medical supplies. Eventually, you reach a point where you have a very large group, all well supplied and heavily armed. You can use hundreds of vessels on the roof to collect water, and set up something to filter sea water into drinking water.

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    zjs

    @The Fallen said: Lets look at exactly where the deaths from the main group occur in the game.

    Savannah - 4 (Chuck, Kenny, Lee, Ben)
    While moving - 2 (Carley, Katjaa, Lilly leaves the group)
    St.Johns farm - 2 (Mark, Larry)
    Motel - 1 (Duck fatally wounded)
    Drug Store- 1 (Doug)

    Its pretty evident in hindsight that the 3 months or so spent at the motel was the groups peak, 3 casualties compared to 7 outside of that time. The walker threat is almost non existent during that time and thats despite the motel not being the best defended fort the worlds ever seen. Bunkering down somewhere is clearly the way to go or you'll die out pretty quickly if you have to constantly adapt to a new area.

    I'd say the statistics from the game point to the fact that being on the move is actually the safest bet. While moving, the group weren't threatened by any external human threat. Also, absolutely NOONE was killed whilst moving. Duck, as you say, died due to injuries sustained escaping the motel, Carley/Doug died as a consequence of the motel bandit raid, killed by a human player who was part of the group and could have done it anywhere, and Katjaa was a suicide which also could have happened anywhere as it was related to the death or her son and not the situation on the road. Walkers didn't kill anyone whatsoever, which is a big deal.

    Yes, it takes its toll, but people are more aware and are constantly foraging for supplies. Take somewhere like the motel: everyone was starving, and the only reason they weren't attacked by other human groups was the deal Ben struck with the bandits.

  • @DreadMagus said: Ok, I see I'm going to have to go slow for you.... again.

    If zombies dispersed so easily, they wouldn't be a threat anywhere... at all.... they'd be off chasing lightning bolts. Or rainbows..... or fucking unicorns.

    I mean, do you honestly believe that? :p

    Somebody hasn't been paying attention again.

    The assumption they're not easily lead is undermined by the very fact they do go after objects like trains and they're attracted by gunshots. In the show they'll lumber after things like road flares.

    Hell, how did we get the pharmacy keys in Episode 1 again? Fact is, if they follow things like gunshots and fixate on loud TV's, they'll follow lightning bolts and thunderclaps.

    As for your part 2.... You're still assuming - since obviously you couldn't grasp what I meant (an assumption on my part that you would) - I'll try to clarify.

    You're assuming that the walking cluster-fuck we can refer to as "season 1's characters" have the sense, foresight or ability to do that.

    Now let's compare it to what they did in their first three months.

    They didn't have enough sense to create a basic garden at the motel, nor build more than a fragile defense or even acquire weapons and tools and basic resources from the town.

    And you expect them to storm the farm, clean it out, rebuild it "and" set up a farm?

    You're giving them far too much credit.

    Unfortunately, there's the small issue of you being obviously, demonstrably wrong. Didn't have the foresight to acquire weapons? Then how is it the group had multiple rifles and ammunition by the beginning of Episode 2 when the only firearm they potentially had at the end of Episode 1 was Carley's pistol?

    We know from Episode 1 that the last group which tried breaking into the hardware store ended up dead. The wall the group did build held up well enough against walkers... and I'm not sure you could realistically do better with the number of people and resources the group had anyway, particularly since they were on foot. Hell, wooden walls/pallisades were basically the norm for most pre-industrial settlements... incidentally, those settlements figured out farming too.

  • @Mark$man said: Dude... have you watched the walking dead tv series? If so, remember how Rick was trying to lock down the outside of the prison to keep more walkers from getting into the courtyard? And some of the people behind the fences were to distract the zombies, but some still went after Rick. They aren't 'stupid'. If it comes between a butterfly or a human, the zombie most likely will chase the human. If it smells human blood(which also attracts them)
    nothing would distract them unless they couldn't see you and maybe smelled more blood. They are able to determine what is food and what is not, and that is what makes them dangerous. The tvs in ep 1 only distract them for a few minutes, and lightning or rain didn't keep them from attacking the farm. It doesn't interest them. Because by seeing a human they won't go after...say... a waterfall. They will continue to go after that human unless some other meaning of food comes along.

    This is undermined by the fact that Lee was within a stone's throw (literally) of the walkers in Ep. 1, he was within earshot of Doug (who told him to hurry up), nor was Lee all that subtle when he killed his brother.

    As I mentioned, the show has them chase road flares. The herd in the Season 2 finale was lured by a burning barn.

    I said they're easily distracted, and pretty much every case proves as much. That somebody needs to break line of sight hardly matters given the "slower than molasses" pace the zombies move at.

    Not really, its been over 4 months since apocalypse. Corn will be dead. The season ended either in the winter or it just ending.

    End of episode 2 we're told it's "going to start getting cold soon" or something along those lines. Episode 3's presumably a few weeks after that, with Episodes 3 - 5 taking place over the course of about half a week (according to dialogue with Christa).

    Cold is also relative here, they're in Georgia, not the Northeast.

    And no, that should be fairly common. Prescriptions, guns and ammunition, non-perishable foods or perishable, matches, flashlights, lanterns, traps, fishing equipment, farming equipment,etc. It's all gotta come from somewhere, and there was tons before the apocalypse started.

    The reason there's tons of that stuff before a disaster is because people are still regularly driving delivery trucks and restocking store shelves. That's where it came from, and it's not the case afterwards (hence the shortages of things like food during disasters).

    We've seen two functional farms during the first season. Now, how many operational canneries did we see?

    There's also the fact that every surviving person is also going to competing for the same stuff. The nearest pharmacy, grocery, or gun store to your place you're thinking about looting if things go bad? They're also the nearest places for hundreds of other people. Wherever you plan to go next to scavenge for supplies? Odds are somebody's going to have beaten you to the punch.

  • @Rommel49 said: Somebody hasn't been paying attention again.

    Yeah, and he's named Rommel49. :rolleyes:

    You're leaving me with the impression that you're either arguing to argue or that you're just not thinking things through.

    Edit
    @Rommel49 said:
    Unfortunately, there's the small issue of you being obviously, demonstrably wrong. Didn't have the foresight to acquire weapons? Then how is it the group had multiple rifles and ammunition by the beginning of Episode 2 when the only firearm they potentially had at the end of Episode 1 was Carley's pistol?

    I'm really liking how you pick and choose over a point like someone picking over a salad bar.

    The "facts" as they were... is that after the end of three months their only "resources" of value were A fireaxe, a pistol, two rifles, a handful of flashlights and a backpack. Three months into a ZA and they're still picking over the same store and have to divide 4 food items between 9 people per day.

    If you equate that that to some grand survival strategy.... well.... good luck with that.


    We know from Episode 1 that the last group which tried breaking into the hardware store ended up dead.

    What's that? Oh, you mean the store surrounded by zombies that migrate every time a bird farts within viewing distance? :rolleyes:


    The wall the group did build held up well enough against walkers... and I'm not sure you could realistically do better with the number of people and resources the group had anyway, particularly since they were on foot. Hell, wooden walls/pallisades were basically the norm for most pre-industrial settlements... incidentally, those settlements figured out farming too.

    Yeah... actually I could. In fact, I can say with no ego that I could do better by myself than what they did as a group. Of course, I suppose that's because I wouldn't need for the library fairy to drop a book in my hands to do it.

  • @DreadMagus said: Yeah, and he's named Rommel49. :rolleyes:

    You're leaving me with the impression that you're either arguing to argue or that you're just not thinking things through.

    I note you didn't actually contest the point.

    The fact remains that I can rattle off a half-dozen instances of zombies chasing after inedible objects. The idea they're not easily distracted or lead is a joke.

    To quote Molly on the matter "it doesn't take much to outsmart the dead".

    I'm really liking how you pick and choose over a point like someone picking over a salad bar.

    The "facts" as they were... is that after the end of three months their only "resources" of value were A fireaxe, a pistol, two rifles, a handful of flashlights and a backpack. Three months into a ZA and they're still picking over the same store and have to divide 4 food items between 9 people per day.

    Shifting of the goal posts.

    Your assertion that "They didn't acquire weapons" is flatly untrue, end of. Now it's "oh, they didn't acquire enough". Even with your "correction", you actually still miscounted :p, they had atleast three rifles at the start of Ep. 2 (Mark and Kenny each had one, as did Lilly) with an unknown number of handguns. They also apparently had scavenged enough ammunition in the intervening months to ensure most of the group members were competent marksmen (which is a lengthy process all on its own).

    Yeah... actually I could. In fact, I can say with no ego that I could do better by myself than what they did as a group. Of course, I suppose that's because I wouldn't need for the library fairy to drop a book in my hands to do it.

    Prove it. Talk is cheap; "I could do better, because... pickles!" is worthless. Come on, show me how much weight you've lugged around in a Georgia summer, I'll wait.

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