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Am I the only person who wouldn't "keep moving"? (Some spoilers)

posted by aguyuno on - last edited - Viewed by 561 users

I'm not gonna bother "tagging" spoilers in here, because I'll likely end up accidentally leaving one in there and people will get mad. Just know that there ARE some.

The thing that's always bugged me about the walking dead series, and really most zombie apocalypse things, is people find a group of people... but then never sit still with it. Why? There's no reason to keep moving. Find a town, buckle down and then clear that shit out.

In the comics, Rick tries that at one point with a prison. It ends badly for reasons I won't go into, but he still tries - It was a good idea. But clearly this isn't the only route to go by. Look at Crawford - They survived for AGES until one crazy pregnant woman went on a shooting spree through the town. And really, as long as you don't try to implement any idiotic "no children, or sick, etc" rules, thereby ensuring that your people only survive one generation, you shouldn't have this problem.

The dead have huge numbers, but beyond that they're slow and stupid. Get your group together with some bladed weapons, clear out a small patch of town (preferably somewhere with a building you can fortify that is big enough to house a lot of people, like a hospital [bonus if it still has beds and/or medicine]), and then push outwards from there. Will the dead ultimately try to push you out? Yes. But that's why you keep fighting.

I don't understand the concept of constantly moving from one place to the next. Why? The only thing that could EVER accomplish is finding new people, and let's be honest - that's not always a good thing. No, the best plan of attack in a situation like this is to REBUILD. If you die trying? Fine. At least you died taking a bunch of zombies with you. But truly, I don't think you will. If your group has at least, let's say 5 or more people with you, you should be fine for at least a while. And once you get yourself set in, people WILL find _you_. And if they don't? Send out scouts, find some. Place flyers around the place, who cares?

Anyway. That's just my rant here. Thoughts, anyone?

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    zjs

    @Rommel49 said: Medicine? I'd be amazed if your average person could tell a pain-reliever like Aleve from Viagra, honestly. Hey, they're both blue. :p



    It's not relevant, but at this point I have to bring up the fact that there's ALWAYS a doctor in the initial group, or who joins at some point after (usually precisely when needed) in any thing that's ever involved zombies.

    Useful technique to explain how they collect the right medicine, ofc. Plenty of them in the profession? Granted. Decent chance of surviving due to intelligence/knowledge? Quite possibly. However, hospitals would soon become epicenters of the apocalypse and walker buffets for those inside them, so they're also on the front lines, so to speak.

    As such, it's strange to think how every group, almost no matter how small, seems to involve a doctor (or very closely related i.e. vet, as in TWD, so as not to make it too obvious). I mean, the game has a vet AND a doctor, and that isn't even counting Hershel, if he's the same farm-owning vet! The group's not that big, even with Vernon and the cancer survivors.

  • @Rommel49 said: In pretty much all cases of disaster prevention, you're advised to have your stuff together and do things like pack food before the disaster hits. Your average person in the U.S. eats a few hundred lbs. of food a year.

    The reason why it seems like so much stuff is out there is strictly because people are still producing it and transporting it.

    In the case of even a perceived shortage, that stuff'll disappear pretty quick. Best precedent - the toilet paper shortage of 1973. :p It took weeks for TP supplies to return to normal after one not-so-great joke from Johnny Carson.

    Warehouses probably aren't a safe bet either. I figure that the people who work at a Campbell's warehouse are probably going to have the notion in their heads to loot the place if soceity falls apart. Beyond that, I'm inclined to think that goods consumed on a year-round basis (like food) probably don't actually spend that much time in them. A company makes money for the goods it's selling on store shelves, the stuff languishing in a warehouse? Not so much.

    Regardless if we're positing that stuff isn't getting shipped from a warehouse because of the apocalypse, there's also no reason to assume it was shipped to a warehouse either.

    If you're tracing stuff back along to its origin point, the ultimate go-to source is the farm when it comes to food. There's no earlier link in that chain. With other stuff like ammunition or medicine? We haven't seen any working munitions factories. Even if you do find ammunition? No guarantee it's compatible with the weapon you're carrying; all the .44 ammunition in the world won't do you any good if the weapon you have is chambered for 5.56 :p. Medicine? I'd be amazed if your average person could tell a pain-reliever like Aleve from Viagra, honestly. Hey, they're both blue. :p



    Dude, when the apocalypse first hit, nobody was warning them, most people either figured it out or died. Only after the first outbreaks did media and whatnot try to warn people, and it was simply where to go and what to do if you think someone was infected etc.

    Warehouses aren't just for food, they are for pretty much anything(and I mean ANYTHING).

    If you looked up in a phone book you'd find a shitload of warehouses for specific things, and that'd prob be where you'd find your specific ammunition or firearms. Or medication. Or food. Or camping equipment. Or vehicles.

    As for the medication, it depends on the person, and where they are from. Obviously a rich person or some relatively locked out of life individual wouldn't know the difference between certain medicines and pain killers, or what they are, but for I'd think at least 60-70% of people would know the difference. At least they'd read the goddamn bottle lol. I don't see the point on that; I mean it doesn't sound relevant.

    You can't say if survival shelters would be good or not, it would depend on how long into the apocalypse, whether you are a dick or not, or if the owner(s) died when zombies came walking along one day :D. If you were a dick you could raid someone's survival shelter fairly easily if you have the tools to get in, whether it is vacant or not. They are almost always packed, and unless the shelter was packed with 50+ people those supplies won't drain that fast. Just matters if you are a dick or not. I, however, think it would be a great idea because if a zombie apocalypse occurs some people don't know. i mean, if you see a person stumbling along the side of the road, wouldn't your first assumption be they are drunk or injured? Wouldn't the first instinct be to help them? You go up to them and they come toward you. You ask if they are okay, and then maybe if you are familiar with 'zombies' or see something isn't right, like they don't answer you, they keep coming toward you, they have blood on them, their skin looks rotten, etc. But other than if you are a dick or always paranoid, I think a lot of people, and I mean A LOT would die within the very first week.

    As for your argument on warehouses being filled or not or looted quickly, I doubt it. Warehouses are drained slowly, but at the same time are being replenished by fresh supplies. Unless they just took a shipment in, the warehouse should be full( or close to it). Some people might think of warehouses, but most won't. When people panic, they won't be able to think rationally. The first thing that would come to mind are stores, and if they are empty houses. Most wouldn't have it cross their mind. Those who work in the warehouse are the shippers, the stockers/manage inventory, and the owner(s). Shippers don't stay overnight, the main workers would go home to their families or get killed in-between work and home, and the owners can only loot their place if they survive the initial outbreaks. It's just a series of what if's. Nothing is certain, but thinking, guessing, and assuming gets you farther than sitting on your ass.

    I don't mean to argue with you, because you make some good points. To be honest, I don't even know what we are arguing over anymore...

  • Y'know what would be sweet? We find a nice safe spot, and a fair way away from it we have some speakers or a PA-system blasting out something loud enough to keep the main mass of walkers there and not near the base. That way no-one has to risk their ass every day ringing bells like Molly (or hell, let's just get some enormous lengths of rope attached to the bells that we we can ring from base-camp)

  • @FreemDeem said: Y'know what would be sweet? We find a nice safe spot, and a fair way away from it we have some speakers or a PA-system blasting out something loud enough to keep the main mass of walkers there and not near the base. That way no-one has to risk their ass every day ringing bells like Molly (or hell, let's just get some enormous lengths of rope attached to the bells that we we can ring from base-camp)



    Exactly. It's stupid.

  • i would keep moving until i found somewhere safe and with renewable resources, but the chances of finding that are so slim i would be prepared to always be on the move

  • @Mark$man said: Dude, when the apocalypse first hit, nobody was warning them, most people either figured it out or died. Only after the first outbreaks did media and whatnot try to warn people, and it was simply where to go and what to do if you think someone was infected etc.



    That's why you're advised to have the stuff onhand before a disaster (pretty much any disaster) occurs. Resource shortages occur in days, if not less (the previously cited TP shortage of 1973 happened pretty much overnight)... and that happened at a time when the production itself hasn't been affected and transportation was working as usual.

    There's some notion that things weren't quite right prior, even if it was apparently misidentified as "civil disturbance".

    Warehouses aren't just for food, they are for pretty much anything(and I mean ANYTHING).

    If you looked up in a phone book you'd find a shitload of warehouses for specific things, and that'd prob be where you'd find your specific ammunition or firearms. Or medication. Or food. Or camping equipment. Or vehicles.

    That's why I said goods consumed on a year-round basis like food, not just food. ;) Medicine and ammunition are also goods consumed on a year-round basis.

    As for the medication, it depends on the person, and where they are from. Obviously a rich person or some relatively locked out of life individual wouldn't know the difference between certain medicines and pain killers, or what they are, but for I'd think at least 60-70% of people would know the difference. At least they'd read the goddamn bottle lol. I don't see the point on that; I mean it doesn't sound relevant.

    Most medication probably isn't going to be stored in easily identifiable bottles. It's not uncommon for that stuff to be stored in bins or non-descript boxes.

    image_a02e623450569d68c331008e52b8ad50.j

    Note the lack of readily identifiable features on the boxes; hell, you can't even see a company logo. Those boxes could contain car parts for all you can tell.

    That's a picture from a Pfizer plant. Even if there is a readily identifiable label? Odds are it's going to have the overly complicated generic name, not the brand name everybody's familiar with. Sure, people might know Aleve from Viagra; but how many know Naproxen Sodium from Sildenafil Citrate? Hydrocodone from Oxycodone or Hydromorphone?

    Hell, "Methylpredisone taper, q.s." is basically the doctor equivalent of "lol rofl g2g l8r kthnxbye" :p

    You can't say if survival shelters would be good or not, it would depend on how long into the apocalypse, whether you are a dick or not, or if the owner(s) died when zombies came walking along one day :D. If you were a dick you could raid someone's survival shelter fairly easily if you have the tools to get in, whether it is vacant or not. They are almost always packed, and unless the shelter was packed with 50+ people those supplies won't drain that fast. Just matters if you are a dick or not. I, however, think it would be a great idea because if a zombie apocalypse occurs some people don't know. i mean, if you see a person stumbling along the side of the road, wouldn't your first assumption be they are drunk or injured? Wouldn't the first instinct be to help them? You go up to them and they come toward you. You ask if they are okay, and then maybe if you are familiar with 'zombies' or see something isn't right, like they don't answer you, they keep coming toward you, they have blood on them, their skin looks rotten, etc. But other than if you are a dick or always paranoid, I think a lot of people, and I mean A LOT would die within the very first week.

    Unless somebody's shelter is unlocked, it shouldn't be that easy to break into, atleast not without taking a lot of time and making a lot of noise. The whole point of such a shelter is to withstand a disaster, afterall. :p

    That's assuming you can find the place too. Decent survivalists; i.e. the ones that do have the good sense to pack mostly food rather than mostly weapons also tend to have the good sense not to talk about their place and to ensure that it isn't conspicuous so it can't be looted by people who didn't have the foresight to prepare.

    The majority of people in an urban soceity, sadly do tend to be dicks when it comes to helping out their fellow man too. Various tests have been done on the subject, most notably having a guy lie face-down in a street and seeing how long it takes for a passerby to try and help. Hundreds of people passed by the guy without lifting a finger. Granted, the guy received help much faster in a small town or village where there's a stronger sense of community and such, but most people don't live in small towns or villages (atleast not in the U.S.)... and that's in a scenario where nothing's wrong, people become a lot less nice and kind when things aren't going so well.

    Hell, the Milgram experiment of the 60's showed you can take a nice, everyday average Joe and the great majority of the time he will torture some poor innocent shmuck as long as a person in a position of authority tells him to.

    As for your argument on warehouses being filled or not or looted quickly, I doubt it. Warehouses are drained slowly, but at the same time are being replenished by fresh supplies. Unless they just took a shipment in, the warehouse should be full( or close to it). Some people might think of warehouses, but most won't. When people panic, they won't be able to think rationally. The first thing that would come to mind are stores, and if they are empty houses. Most wouldn't have it cross their mind. Those who work in the warehouse are the shippers, the stockers/manage inventory, and the owner(s). Shippers don't stay overnight, the main workers would go home to their families or get killed in-between work and home, and the owners can only loot their place if they survive the initial outbreaks. It's just a series of what if's. Nothing is certain, but thinking, guessing, and assuming gets you farther than sitting on your ass.

    I don't mean to argue with you, because you make some good points. To be honest, I don't even know what we are arguing over anymore...

    If the crap hits the fan, most people are going to go for the closest fix where they think they can get what they need. Whether that's a store, a factory, or a warehouse. If someone is concerned about starving, I doubt they're going to pass by the aforementioned Campbell's warehouse if it's closer than the grocery store.

    Ironically enough, sometimes sitting on your ass is the right call in survival. For example, in the desert one of the primary pieces of advice given is to find shade and lie down because you're more likely to survive long enough for conditions to change and/or for help to arrive. :p

  • @Rommel49 said:

    Unless somebody's shelter is unlocked, it shouldn't be that easy to break into, atleast not without taking a lot of time and making a lot of noise. The whole point of such a shelter is to withstand a disaster, afterall. :p

    That's assuming you can find the place too. Decent survivalists; i.e. the ones that do have the good sense to pack mostly food rather than mostly weapons also tend to have the good sense not to talk about their place and to ensure that it isn't conspicuous so it can't be looted by people who didn't have the foresight to prepare.

    If the crap hits the fan, most people are going to go for the closest fix where they think they can get what they need. Whether that's a store, a factory, or a warehouse. If someone is concerned about starving, I doubt they're going to pass by the aforementioned Campbell's warehouse if it's closer than the grocery store.

    Ironically enough, sometimes sitting on your ass is the right call in survival. For example, in the desert one of the primary pieces of advice given is to find shade and lie down because you're more likely to survive long enough for conditions to change and/or for help to arrive. :p



    Yeah, but if there is no help? You are screwed, because you wasted too much time hoping FOR help. In time of a disaster, you have to take things into your own hands. Only you know what is best for YOU. At the motor inn, they thought they'd be safe to wait and hope for help. Well... it caused the deaths of three people and the leave of another. Hadn't it been for Kenny's RV, lotta people'd of died.

    And maybe they'd do that. Many people don't know though. Warehouses aren't glowing gold saying FOOD, AMMUNITION, SUPPLIES here!!! lol, it'll depend on the person. I think most ones in cities will get looted, or the place would be overrun too quickly. As for urban/rural, I don't think they'll get touched. They aren't easily found despite the size, they blend in fairly easily.

    As for the shelters, it might make a lot of noise, but if you can find one, which isn't THAT hard, I know the locations of several. Anyway, if attracting some walkers will get you months of food, sounds good enough to me :P

    I'm getting tired of arguing with you, cuz you make tons of points lol.

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    zjs

    @Mark$man said: Yeah, but if there is no help? You are screwed, because you wasted too much time hoping FOR help. In time of a disaster, you have to take things into your own hands. Only you know what is best for YOU.

    You'd have some running water for at least a while which you could find a way to store and some food. I'm sure you'd attempt to at least go to houses nearby enough that they were easily accessible from the garden etc to see if neighbours have survived, and if not, then stock up

    At the motor inn, they thought they'd be safe to wait and hope for help. Well... it caused the deaths of three people and the leave of another. Hadn't it been for Kenny's RV, lotta people'd of died.

    Don't think this example works in this context. The only reason there was an overrunning from walkers was due to the bandits creating a lot of noise and providing a lot of bodies. They were safe for a long time before that. Waiting didn't cause any deaths, as noone starved to death. The only deaths even remotely 'caused' by the motor inn was Duck's, indirectly, by getting bitten while escaping and Carley/Doug which was VERY indirect, to the point of causation really not being established, given than they were shot by an unhinged human member of their group who was paranoid and incensed over supplies. Only connection to the motor inn is that it's the place where they all went hungry, which led to the paranoia

    And maybe they'd do that. Many people don't know though. Warehouses aren't glowing gold saying FOOD, AMMUNITION, SUPPLIES here!!! lol, it'll depend on the person. I think most ones in cities will get looted, or the place would be overrun too quickly. As for urban/rural, I don't think they'll get touched. They aren't easily found despite the size, they blend in fairly easily.

    It's fair to say that ammunition/medical supply warehouses won't be recognisable unless you recognise the company, but food warehouses are branded and most people recognise most food brands.

    I think the out of town and rural warehouses would be less likely to have been cleared of anything useful, but you'd have to travel out a long way to them - given that people don't normally live in industrial areas outside of cities - and would need to know their locations, or the locations of industrial areas likely to have them, in advance.


    As for the shelters, it might make a lot of noise, but if you can find one, which isn't THAT hard, I know the locations of several. Anyway, if attracting some walkers will get you months of food, sounds good enough to me :P

    IF you manage to break in. This is like your point about help arriving - i.e. IF it arrives it pays off. Given that the systems are usually fairly sophisticated and very robust, you're unlikely to make your way in unless you've managed to loot dynamite/C4!

    I'm getting tired of arguing with you, cuz you make tons of points lol.



    In bold.

  • Settling down is only a viable option when you have the manpower. Lee saying "keep moving" to Clementine, in those circumstances, makes sense because the only people in their possible group is a pregnant lady and a really tiny dude. Setting up a camp with such few people would just, as Lee put it, make them an easy target for bandits. And trying to add random survivors into their group, as you may have guessed, would be an awful idea.

    Now if they are as fortunate as Rick and runs into a large group of capable people, then maybe sure. But as it currently stands, it would be a horrible mistake.

  • @CarScar said: Settling down is only a viable option when you have the manpower. Lee saying "keep moving" to Clementine, in those circumstances, makes sense because the only people in their possible group is a pregnant lady and a really tiny dude. Setting up a camp with such few people would just, as Lee put it, make them an easy target for bandits.



    yeah, i don't think Lee meant "keep moving even if you find a totally protected fortress town with food and a community" it was more like "keep moving until you find a totally protected fortress town with food and a community"

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