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TTG really messed up the Kenny/Lee dynamic

posted by marcu5 on - last edited - Viewed by 1.9K users

It's really frustrating and unrealistic that Kenny would dislike Lee all the way until the end just because you didn't help him bash Larry's skull in. I've helped his family more than he has, yet he's hesitant to help me find Clem.

Why would TTG focus so much on one decision? How about giving some realistic responses for once. I'd love to tell Kenny about how i fed Duck, kept Larry from kicking his boy out. Put his son out of his misery when he was too weak to do it. Saved his ass from zombies when he's abandoned me twice. I mean, How much more could one man do? Give us a chance to tell Kenny off before Lees departure.

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  • @thestalkinghead said: i dont know why people think kenny should be you best buddy even if you dont help him or back him up, maybe personally i would cut people more slack but i would still keep score, if you help me i will help you and vice versa, and if you don't help me you are an ass hole (zombie apocalypse kind of help) so why would kenny (a character who is reasonably calculating and pragmatic) help you if you don't help him, think about if you were playing the character of kenny you would have thought the time where Lee helped save everybody's life by stopping a giant zombie was way more important than the time Lee gave Duck half an apple or agreed with him.


    He should feel loyal to Lee because of all the things Lee has done for his family, by just the scripted sequences alone, but then there is all of the extra optional things you can and most will choose to do for his family. For instance If You stood up to Larry and defended his son, fed his son shortly after, gave his son rations in ep2,saved his wife from the zombie on the truck, he shouldn't turn against you just because you tried to preserve life in the meat locker and he DEFINITELY shouldn't leave you to die in ep3 when you are attacked by a walker, in light of the fact that you saved his wife for the second time after the meat locker incident and defeated the man that had his son held hostage.

    I did all of those things for his family when I played and he still treated me like shit, goading me and provoking me every step of the way until I nearly killed him on the train.(i've seen people fight against him and loose, it's not pretty. When Kenny fights Lee on the train he's verocious. It's not Kenny just using self defense, he's really trying to take Lee out ) I don't no about being best buddy's but after all I did for his family he should be kissing my ass and trying to stay in my good books not the other way around.

  • @NessaT said: Yes, I sided with Lilly in the locker but I helped Kenny with Kaatja and Duck. I was there for him, so he agreed to help me find Clem.

    He didn't want Ben to come along though, and I didn't mind. Ben is useless.

    Dude Ben isn't really useless. I once hated him so much, but now I just feel bad for the kid. He wasn't evil, nor a traitor. You could call him a coward, but he does have his moments. He tries to help however be can. He tries to keep the group safe, it just doesn't work out with Lilly interrupted the deal. They should have went with the deal and left.

    He tried to help at Crawford by finding Kenny a weapon, he didnt know it was keeping the door closed, and the walkers had went off for the moment.

    He may have left Clem, but it was his fear to be eaten alive, and he knew it was wrong. He felt bad about it. He would try to get himself killed, resulting in being eaten alive, if you drop him. He grabs your gun for you. He tries to watch after clem. He goes with you willingly if he survives ep4. Ben was just meant to be hated.

    And Kenny didnt want Ben to come but you can tell him to deal with it, bringing all your group with you

  • @Mark$man said: Dude Ben isn't really useless. I once hated him so much, but now I just feel bad for the kid. He wasn't evil, nor a traitor. You could call him a coward, but he does have his moments. He tries to help however be can. He tries to keep the group safe, it just doesn't work out with Lilly interrupted the deal. They should have went with the deal and left.

    He tried to help at Crawford by finding Kenny a weapon, he didnt know it was keeping the door closed, and the walkers had went off for the moment.

    He may have left Clem, but it was his fear to be eaten alive, and he knew it was wrong. He felt bad about it. He would try to get himself killed, resulting in being eaten alive, if you drop him. He grabs your gun for you. He tries to watch after clem. He goes with you willingly if he survives ep4. Ben was just meant to be hated.

    And Kenny didnt want Ben to come but you can tell him to deal with it, bringing all your group with you

    Calling him useless doesn't mean you hate him, you can sympathise with his ineptness (and the majority do), but its not really debatable.

    The fact the only good thing he successfully does in four episodes is pick up a gun you dropped says it all really. Even then he gives it back because he's "not good with it", Come on Ben even the 8 year old has learnt how to shoot!

    Also he didn't make the deal to keep the group safe, he did it because they said they had his friend, the fact it stopped the attacks for a little while was a side effect. If he had told Lee about it when he was investigating they could have made a clean getaway, but it was already too late by the time Lilly started shooting. The hatchet in the door thing was really, really stupid.

    He had (mostly) good intentions, but was pretty useless, if not a detriment.

  • @OzzieMonkey said: I'd love it if there was an option to still tell Kenny to go **** himself even if he agrees to help you find Clem. Sorry, but I just hate the guy that much :p

    I know this is old, but can I just say real quick that would have been a hilarious exchange. Sorta like if you let Clem vote in Crawford then vote to kick Ben out anyways.

    Kenny: "You’ve always been there for me, Lee. Always had my back when it mattered. What kind of friend would I be if I wasn’t there for you now? Bitten or not, I’m with you to the end. You can count on me."
    Lee: "You know what Kenny? You can go fuck yourself!"
    Kenny: O_o

    @OzzieMonkey said: Calling him useless doesn't mean you hate him, you can sympathise with his ineptness (and the majority do), but its not really debatable.

    The fact the only good thing he successfully does in four episodes is pick up a gun you dropped says it all really. Even then he gives it back because he's "not good with it", Come on Ben even the 8 year old has learnt how to shoot.

    Yeah, because someone took the time to teach her. I doubt Lilly bothered to teach Ben shit or trusted Carley enough to do it. My initial thought after teaching Clem how to shoot was I should probably teach Ben next, but it's not an option.

    Like I've said in other posts, Ben really needed some kind of parental figure to guide him, teach him some important things to keep alive. That, or a bucket sand. Then you could just hand him the bucket and tell him to hold it all times and that should keep him busy enough he doesn't fuck anything else up. :p

  • @Jaded X Gamer said:

    Yeah, because someone took the time to teach her. I doubt Lilly bothered to teach Ben shit or trusted Carley enough to do it. My initial thought after teaching Clem how to shoot was I should probably teach Ben next, but it's not an option.

    Like I've said in other posts, Ben really needed some kind of parental figure to guide him, teach him some important things to keep alive. That, or a bucket sand. Then you could just hand him the bucket and tell him to hold it all times and that should keep him busy enough he doesn't fuck anything else up. :p

    Probably the one thing i would say to Ben right from the start given a chance would be "ask for help if you need it".

    Its the same thing with the supplies, Its pretty clear he fairly quickly realised it was a mistake, if he had come to me about it we could have sorted it out with no deaths and i would have defended him from Lilly, instead he keeps quiet.

    Talk to me FFS Ben. I could have helped you.

  • I really liked Kenny. When I tried reason the arguments with him and Larry/Lilly, just because I didn't support him directly doesn't mean I supported the other side (especially in the beginning of the game when you can decide to "try reason with Larry"). I was trying to stay neutral, but whenever I had separate conversations with Kenny I always let him know I was on his side. Nevertheless, just because I didn't bash a poor man's brains in he hated me despite the fact that I really liked Kenny as a character. So when he refused to come with me to get Clementine, I was very hurt. "Keeping score," *PSSH*. I treated his son like royalty (I might be the only one here who liked Duck) and freaking helped him with his sons death by staying calm with him and ending his sons life for him before his son could reanimate. I always stayed peaceful during the arguments with him, and was very sad when Kenny was "lost to the herd" but I am still angry that he refused to help find Clementine.

  • @The Fallen said: Calling him useless doesn't mean you hate him, you can sympathise with his ineptness (and the majority do), but its not really debatable.

    The fact the only good thing he successfully does in four episodes is pick up a gun you dropped says it all really. Even then he gives it back because he's "not good with it", Come on Ben even the 8 year old has learnt how to shoot!

    Also he didn't make the deal to keep the group safe, he did it because they said they had his friend, the fact it stopped the attacks for a little while was a side effect. If he had told Lee about it when he was investigating they could have made a clean getaway, but it was already too late by the time Lilly started shooting. The hatchet in the door thing was really, really stupid.

    He had (mostly) good intentions, but was pretty useless, if not a detriment.

    lol never said it mean't he hated him, I just said that I did xD. Me and my bro wanted to let him just die for the longest time, but I couldn't do it when the time came, and I'm glad I didn't.

  • @Jaded X Gamer said:
    Yeah, because someone took the time to teach her. I doubt Lilly bothered to teach Ben shit or trusted Carley enough to do it. My initial thought after teaching Clem how to shoot was I should probably teach Ben next, but it's not an option.

    Like I've said in other posts, Ben really needed some kind of parental figure to guide him, teach him some important things to keep alive. That, or a bucket sand. Then you could just hand him the bucket and tell him to hold it all times and that should keep him busy enough he doesn't fuck anything else up. :p

    It sounds like you are blaming Lilly for this, which is a tad too ridiculous.

    If you are going to blame her, consider the timeline. The time when she put the group through a shooting regime was over the three months they stayed at the motor inn, a period of time that Ben was not part of.

    First day he came in Lilly didn't welcome or trust him already, and before anything much could be done there was the mess with the St. Johns. And of course, I doubt Lilly trusted him anymore after the dairy farm (I don't think she ever did) and she's simply distracted and too distraught after her father's death (note how someone can actually steal the supplies in her room right under her nose).

    The saddest thing about Ben is, everyone's too wound up in their own 'world' to be his mentor. Lilly obviously didn't care or didn't want to care, Lee's got Clem and Kenny rarely cares beyond his own family.

    But if I make the headcount like this, then the next obvious question is why didn't Carly teach Ben?

    Or maybe she did - just that he didn't have the stomach for it and I don't think she will really push it.

    @Jaded X Gamer said: I know this is old, but can I just say real quick that would have been a hilarious exchange. Sorta like if you let Clem vote in Crawford then vote to kick Ben out anyways.

    Kenny: "You’ve always been there for me, Lee. Always had my back when it mattered. What kind of friend would I be if I wasn’t there for you now? Bitten or not, I’m with you to the end. You can count on me."
    Lee: "You know what Kenny? You can go fuck yourself!"
    Kenny: O_o


    That option stays even after Kenny says that? I like that! :D

  • @AnekiGX said: It sounds like you are blaming Lilly for this, which is a tad too ridiculous.

    At this point it's a shorter list for what I don't blame her for. :p

    All though if she didn't trust Ben and didn't bother teaching him anything, she really shouldn't have been putting him on watch then. Notice she doesn't even have a real answer to that criticism when Kenny points it out. I also think she didn't trust Carley with a gun anymore at that point. Notice how possessive she is when Kenny and Lee bring those rifles back? And last episode if you look at the fence Lee says Carley was doing the bulk of the lookout duty, but not anymore. She doesn't even have a gun on her anymore even though she was probably the group's best shot.

    But that's all beside the point. People point how much better Clementine is doing despite being half Ben's age but she's got Lee looking out for her. Hell, everyone you meet wants to protect Clementine, even some of the bad guys. In Ben's case nobody is looking out for him but since he's older everyone expects him to pull his weight, unlike Clementine and Duck, even though Ben doesn't even look old enough to vote. He's old enough where he's expected to be responsible but not nearly old to actually be responsible. I was at least as protective of him as I was Duck.

    And no, you can't tell Kenny to fuck off if he gives you the bro speech, I was just pointing out how hilarious it would be if you could. :D

  • @Jaded X Gamer said: I know this is old, but can I just say real quick that would have been a hilarious exchange. Sorta like if you let Clem vote in Crawford then vote to kick Ben out anyways.


    That's what I did... and I regret it. I feel bad, and I never wanted Ben to die (which is why I saved him). I just wanted Kenny to stop being such a jerk to me so I hoped this would win him over even though it didn't. Including, I had a gut feeling we would never make it to the boat so it wouldn't really matter. We have to remember that Ben is still a kid and I think the reason most people didn't like him was because he sort of came in out of the blue and then screwed the group up. However what most of you guys don't realize is that if Ben didn't give the food to the bandits then the bandits would have straight out attacked the group, seeing what they did the moment they didn't find the food because Lee took it away.

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