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A Clementine Death

posted by TJPguy on - last edited - Viewed by 348 users

Okay so this thread is either going to create discussion or make me a very hated member ;)

I brushed upon this in another thread where there were a couple of responses, however I wanted to look into it further.

Would anyone here have been interested to see at least an alternate choice-based ending where Clem dies? Either instead of Lee or along with Lee... that's not too important.
Purely for emotional reasons - I adore Clementine of course. But I've got to say I desperately wanted an ending where she had a full, story based death (as opposed to her 'game over' ones :L). I wanted to see what TellTale could do if they made the most saddening ending with a Clem death as possible.

If you're one of the people who say they would hate TellTale if they killed Clem and would refuse to play any more - is there any reason beyond just really liking Clem? It seems a very extreme response. Even more extreme than Cry's playthrough of the ending :p

Imagine Season 2 doesn't come into this at all, as it would naturally mess it up. I ask as if Season 1 was a stand alone project.

I'll also put this as a poll out of curiosity, for a canon Clem death, alternate one or as it is now :)

50 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @Mark$man said: I can't say I wouldn'd be interested, but I would never let it happen. She was basically the central focus of the first season, preparing to become either a coldhearted, non-trusting badass, or be the innocent(in a sense), trusting, hopeful character, or even somewhere in-between.

    And bro, that's harsh. I can't understand the point in having nothing but bad, nothing but sadness. If that was the case they'd all have committed suicide by now lol. I like how Telltale always keeps you on your toes and makes you think ahead, and how they make you like something just to rip it from your dead hands, but there has to be a limit; a line. You say that is only fairly dark, but it sounds colddddd mate lol. It would suck if everyone died, because there would be little point in playing. I don't mean a happy ending, but not an ending that everything goes wrong. It just wouldn't feel right for TWD to just keep handing out pink slips XP. I don't care if they keep slipping the rug from under my feet, but give them a fighting chance, let some people survive. Let there be hope. It's just my opinion.



    Really, it's that harsh is it? Well I can see how it could be seen that way, but it's not because I'd get a kick out of it or want her to die... it really is a hard thing to explain.
    (Note for all: When I came up with this and posted it, it's worth mentioning that I didn't want everyone to die... It would've needed to be quite a different plot, but I wanted different people to survive. In particular Lee. I know Clem was basically his reason to go on, but it would have been [B]so interesting to see a season 2 plot where he would need to move on, need to deal with it and how it would affect him without him committing suicide. That would have been sad in itself, and I know other titles have done things like that successfully.[/B]
    Sorry if that was a bit confusing. Everyone dying would be a bit of a bad climax. And it's cool, I like opinions :p

    @Mark$man said: It's not a game, but you should check out the film series "The Human Condition". Over nine hours of every depressing thing you'd ever find in a war movie topped off with an ending that would seem utterly nihilistic if not for the fact the realistically it probably happened to countless people during the second World War. :(

    And as for the topic at end, I was actually worried Telltale would kill off Clementine at the end of the game. Ever since the nightmare on the RV I realized it was a possibility. And since a lot of the game seems to emulate the experience of being a parent, I thought they might make you experience a parent's greatest fear, losing their child.

    I voted canon death because if they were to do that, it seems like the kind of thing important enough to commit to. An optional death would feel like an elaborate game over. If they had done something like that, I'd picture it something like Clementine getting bitten instead of Lee and you have to go through the whole Duck thing with her now. And afterwards maybe there's a moment where Lee is thinking about killing himself, and he hears someone's voice over Clem's radio. Something to give him hope. Sorta like that scene in the T.V. show, but even more desperate.

    Thanks for the recommendation, I'll certainly look into it :) You've worded it very nicely, couldn't have said it better myself. A parent losing a child in a zombie apocalypse would work well in this kind of story I think.

  • I'd have taken Clem's hand off instantly :/ And it still would have been an interesting experience. It'd either traumatize Lee or make him SUPERDYDOOPER protective of Clementine

  • The way I see it if it was a stand alone game regardless of who died out of Lee or Clementine it would have had a hopeless ending anyway. Clementine being in the wilderness by herself and seeing 2 figures in the distance is no more hopeful for a stand alone game ending than it would be if Lee was the last survivor since the people in the distance could have been dangerous and we wouldn't of known the fate of the other characters.

    I think the game would of been more effective if Clementine was killed instead of Lee simply because that would have sucker punched us as no one would have expected it. When I played episode 1 I expected Clementine to be the last survivor because she was alone on the chapter select screen for "no time left". It would have shocked everyone if Clementine died and would of shown much more bravery from Telltale to have gone that route. Telltale were going for shock effect and they wanted to do what others fear doing, killing the protagonist.

    Children die in the walking dead when they have the protection of adults how much more vulnerable should Clementine of been when she was separated from the group?

    Throughout the 5 episodes Lee had fought and wrestled with zombies at close range and come away unscaved. I think it would have been far more realistic for Clementine to have come to harm and died when she ran off than for Lee to get bitten by a zombie behind a dumpster.

    Telltale were going for realism, proving no one is safe in that world but they contradict themselves by keeping alive the most vulnerable character. A 9 year old girl travelling through a zombie filled city by herself. Clementine surviving gives the game a happy ending. The character we cared for the most survives so we are happy. If the walking dead game was a stand alone game that wasn't going to have a second season It would have had an ending that appeased the players at the expense of realism. Even the tv show had the balls to kill of a kid when they killed off Sophia. Sophia's death was realistic because she was on her own without the protection of the group.

    Telltale were scared to even touch Clementine. Occaisionally her feelings got hurt but that was it after episode 1 when she hurt her finger. When you think about what the children go through in the walking dead comics. Ben, a 5 year mutilates his twin brother Billy with a bowen knife because he becomes mentally ill and thinks his brother will come back to life because he didn't harm his brain. A 9 year old Carl shoots the 5 year old Ben in his face because Carl see's him as a threat to the group and knows that none of the adults would be able to kill a child. Months before that, 8 year old Carl is shot in his shoulder blade and months after the Ben incident he is shot in his face, losing his eye. Oh and I forgot to add that months before that Carl was nearly gang raped by a group of bandits. This is the world of the walking dead, yet nothing happens to Clementine throughout the adventure, in a world of paedophiles , rapist and sociopaths. I'm not saying that I wanted anything to happen to her but if she is to run off and be separated from the group wouldn't it be realistic that she came to some harm?

  • Before anyone starts hating me, please read the post to the end, thanks.
    I see it that way:
    It should depend on how the player plays, if I take good care of her overall, not only depending on 1 decision, but depending on hours of decisions, she will live, and if I don't she dies, if I teach her to never loose hope, to stay focused, careful, and to be ready to pull the trigger if necessary, she'll obviously make it, if for example she runs off once again, and I don't tell her, that she should always have backup in dangerous situations, and should observe her surrounding before just entering, but simply tell her "great job" instead of "you did good, but be more careful next time" she won't learn, to be careful, which will get her killed in the ending.

    I simply want a non-canon ending, I want my choices to matter, and I want her to live, but only if I take good care of her, and educate her well. So that the "survival training" we had with her would matter, and the last words from Lee etc.

    /edit: If they can't make it depending on choices, I'd rather have a canon Clementine alive ending, than a Clementine dead ending. Seriously TellTale, please don't kill her. I said please....

  • @ZeroShoot said: Before anyone starts hating me, please read the post to the end, thanks.
    I see it that way:
    It should depend on how the player plays, if I take good care of her overall, not only depending on 1 decision, but depending on hours of decisions, she will live, and if I don't she dies, if I teach her to never loose hope, to stay focused, careful, and to be ready to pull the trigger if necessary, she'll obviously make it, if for example she runs off once again, and I don't tell her, that she should always have backup in dangerous situations, and should observe her surrounding before just entering, but simply tell her "great job" instead of "you did good, but be more careful next time" she won't learn, to be careful, which will get her killed in the ending.

    I simply want a non-canon ending, I want my choices to matter, and I want her to live, but only if I take good care of her, and educate her well. So that the "survival training" we had with her would matter, and the last words from Lee etc.

    /edit: If they can't make it depending on choices, I'd rather have a canon Clementine alive ending, than a Clementine dead ending. Seriously TellTale, please don't kill her. I said please....




    I agree with this. My.. "Problem" with the game was that your freedom was kinda limited and your "choice did not matter".

    Even though they might matter in Season 2. The problem with all this is that if i for some reason did not learn Clem how to shoot. In the scenarios that she DID shoot, what would happen otherwise?

  • @Rizefall said: I agree with this. My.. "Problem" with the game was that your freedom was kinda limited and your "choice did not matter".

    Even though they might matter in Season 2. The problem with all this is that if i for some reason did not learn Clem how to shoot. In the scenarios that she DID shoot, what would happen otherwise?



    I don't think it's possible to not teach her how to shoot, so that probably wouldn't be an issue.

  • Yo vote que viva la pequeña. Te soy honesto. A veces quisiera que Clementine hubiera muerto, porque la razón es muy simple hay muchos enfermos aquí y afuera poniendo temas de personas enfermas me hacen enojar mucho, una cosa es un juego y otra es estar pensado como lastimar a una persona, si piensan de ese modo que te hacen creer que realmente en la vida real son capaces de lastimar a una niña de verdad, tal vez de donde soy estemos bastante atrasados pero si tenemos mucho más conciencia de las cosas (sin ofender), pero sé que existen personas que darían todo por ella si en algún momento este apocalipsis se volviera realidad.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

  • @Mornai said: I don't think it's possible to not teach her how to shoot, so that probably wouldn't be an issue.



    It was just an example of what i mentioned earlier. The game is not as "free" as it first seems. You only have minor effect on the story, if someone dies, another lives. Game is quite simple.

  • @Mornai said: I don't think it's possible to not teach her how to shoot, so that probably wouldn't be an issue.



    @Mornai said: It was just an example of what i mentioned earlier. The game is not as "free" as it first seems. You only have minor effect on the story, if someone dies, another lives. Game is quite simple.

    Yup, that's what I mean, you have to teach her how to shoot, disregarding how you feel about it, Chuck talked some sense into you, he made you listen to reason, but you were not given the choice to accept or decline his advice. I thought yeah, she definitely should learn to shoot, but I can imagine some people still thought, that she is a little girl, and she shouldn't use guns, but they weren't free to just... not teach her, but if they made a decision where you could choose, whether or not to teach her how to shoot, and then depending on that choice, they could have made different endings or scenes here and there. For example: if you brought her to Crawford and taught her how to shoot, she saves Molly, if you brought her, but never taught her how to handle a gun, she can't pull the trigger. Little thing, but big meaning, as that means she wouldn't be able to kill the stranger either if Lee fails to defeat him, and perhaps she won't be able to survive on her own out there without Lee. I hope such things will be featured in S2, that it is up to us to really prepare her, and that we are given the freedom to do it our way, not a canon way, but unique ways.

  • @ZeroShoot said: Yup, that's what I mean, you have to teach her how to shoot, disregarding how you feel about it, Chuck talked some sense into you, he made you listen to reason, but you were not given the choice to accept or decline his advice. I thought yeah, she definitely should learn to shoot, but I can imagine some people still thought, that she is a little girl, and she shouldn't use guns, but they weren't free to just... not teach her, but if they made a decision where you could choose, whether or not to teach her how to shoot, and then depending on that choice, they could have made different endings or scenes here and there. For example: if you brought her to Crawford and taught her how to shoot, she saves Molly, if you brought her, but never taught her how to handle a gun, she can't pull the trigger. Little thing, but big meaning, as that means she wouldn't be able to kill the stranger either if Lee fails to defeat him, and perhaps she won't be able to survive on her own out there without Lee. I hope such things will be featured in S2, that it is up to us to really prepare her, and that we are given the freedom to do it our way, not a canon way, but unique ways.



    Well choice in games needs to have some boarders. If for some reason the right way to go would be to teach her how to use gun and you dont, what would happen? People would die, she might die even lee in another way. Players would not like that their choice was "the wrong one".

    Again it's an interactive tv-show. I dont wanna say your choices are "small" cause they really are not, a better word would be that there is not that much freedom in what you do.

    I for one thinks it's mandatory that she learns how to use a gun, but then again it would be fun to have it so you can just ignore it, lee dies and then she is out in this world and does not know how to shoot, rofl.

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