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Team Lily to the end (appreciation thread)

posted by YamiRaziel on - last edited - Viewed by 9.1K users

This topic contains Comic book spoilers. Read at your own risk

I guess I may be the only one here who would still support Lily if she shows up at some future point in time.
Why?
I appreciate her leadership skills, her selflessness (having to make all those little decisions is really difficult) and her reasoning. She tried to keep this group together, she did her very best but some other people...like Kenny always tried to have it their way, always consider what's only best for his family.
I think we all agree it was difficult giving the rations the first time in episode two. We got a glimpse of what she has to do every day. People hated us for those choices, so they hate her even more for having to do it every day. But there's no one else who would do it.

She was still pretty reasonable until Kenny murdered her father. People can complain that he saved them and all that crap... but you couldn't have known for sure and that's the truth. He overreacted and again being the selfish asshole he is, he did the easiest choice for him. Eliminate the enemy and undermine the leader's authority.

In episode 3 we see things haven't changed. Lily is still the only one to really tries to protect the group. Lee, of course, helps always and as much as he can, but others like Kenny... they didn't even feel bad for what they did in episode 2. Kenny ruined this group and yet he still wanted things to go his way. He kept pushing Lily without really doing anything for the group. He was determined to abandon all.
Carley... she didn't really do anything. She could've stepped in and helped Lily when she saw she was about to snap... but she didn't. The only thing she actually did was tease Lee, look cute, and avoid participation in almost every important discussion. The downfall in episode 3 is partially her fault as well.
When the bandits attacked the group it was again Lily that came to the rescue to a group that hated her. Kenny wouldn't swallow my disrespect for him and actually tried to get me killed too many times in this episode.
Ben... and Kenny really started a chain reaction. With both their stupidity combined they managed to indirectly kill Carley, Katjaa and Duck as well destroy the group from within.
Both cowards and both DUBM as a bag of hammers.
I would so love to see them gone in episode 4 & 5. I don't need stupid people in my group, people who know nothing about responsibility or humanity.


It was sad to see Lily snap but I guess there is a line as to where a person can take it. In the end of the day I'm sure she'll regret her choices and will eventually learn from them. She kills Lorry cause she believes they are threatening her group. When she sees how wrong she was she offs the Governor. That's a pretty redeeming deed in my book, one that clearly shows she actually develops.

I would certainly love to see more of her in future episodes/seasons.

So, am I the only one? :D Even if I am, I will still be defending this position to the end :P

695 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @GREYxDUZxKRUSH said: I will never ever use paragraphs again. Just because of the college professor above bleeding out of his ass.

    LMFAO. That was just... lol

  • @Mark$man said: No, because if you can't make them follow, you aren't much of a leader. a stem of leader is LEAD. And yeah, I said "rapist monsters" for a reason. However, they took the girl because the woman was of no use to her. She had nothing they wanted except her daughter. And yes it is, at the very least for putting Ben on watch. A kid you barely know to guard the group? Is that not stupid?
    Yeah, I know how terrorism works, and no, there were other ways to handle it besides direct violence. They did nothing to Ben but try to scare him. They didn't harm him, and only threatened to kill them. It was a bluff.
    And why would it be needed to bring up if EVERYONE with eyes and ears knows it? Whoo, Ben was lied to, wahhhhh, give him a cookie. It's not as bad as killing someone to scare him. And yeah, I like how you point to my age as an actual defense in your point, as if it has anything to do with it. As if that is mature. At this point in time, who really doesn't know what the hell is being stated? I actually figured considering it was so obvious anyone with half a brain could realise it. And also, yeah I write big, bulky, clusterfucks of text, I'm sorry if you can't handle it, I figured people with at least a third grade education could read. :P

    No offense dude, but I really don't like to be attacked on what is to be an opinion about a thread. I mean, calm down a little :P Having your own thoughts on it is fine, and arguing my points is as well, but try not to chastise me bro! It's lil harsh lol

    How many actual leaders do you know or have been with? I've known my share of good and bad during my years in the service. One universal constant among them? Not one of them had a mind control ray.

    Look at the Oath of Enlistment that I and every other guy take. Why do you think it has us swear to follow the orders of the President and those appointed above us? It's not much of a promise if any non-sucky leader can just force you to obey those orders. God forbid, it's like followers might actually have responsibilities.

    More to the point, if I or any other guy in my unit didn't follow an order given by our company commander or deliberately worked against the interest of the people we were with, who do you think would be held accountable, me? Or my C.O.? Hint, you can be charged with disobeying orders. Ditto for treason. As far as I know, there's no "failure to subjugate this one shmuck with the power of your mind" charge.

    Ironically enough? New guys are typically the ones given sentry duty, specifically because it is a pretty simple task. Ben being a shit bird that endangered the group for no good reason? That's nobody's fault except Ben's, particularly since he does it again the very next episode.

    With Jolene? There's nothing the bandits couldn't have gotten from her little girl that they couldn't get from her. Hell, in Jolene's case, it's implied they did get it and just didn't deliver... and I'm sorry, but if you didn't get that, yeah, I kinda do need to your question your age. We know they lied through their teeth with Ben about his friend. Shock and surprise, guys who have no problem raping and murdering and kill each other over disputes have no qualms about lying.

    In that scenario? Especially with these kind of people, you always want to be the one to get off the first shot. Doesn't matter if you're police or military. As the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Starting a shootout then? Hardly ideal, it would've been better if the bandits had been contested at the gate (but again, Ben's treason/crapulence), waiting to give them the chance to do something you don't want? Gives them a chance to make things a whole lot worse.

    There's a reason we have a fight or flight response; not a fight or flight or maybe invite them over for tea response. Fleeing wasn't an option.

    Incidentally, paragraph writing is something learned by third-graders:

    http://www.ehow.com/how_8627537_teach-paragraph-writing-thirdgraders.html ;)

  • As this thread keeps popping up (28 pages, well done :D )
    Here's my opinion on Lilly:
    When we first met her, she seemed overwhelmed with the fact that she was the leader of a group, she couldn't calm anyone down, barely anyone listened to what she said, but she seemed nice - at least. Then at the motor inn, I knew she wouldn't be a good leader, because she was too cold hearted already, after 3 months she lost as much humanity as Rick did in twice or three times the time, and he is kind of insane right now, so it was predictable to me, that she would loose it at some point soon. Then what happened at the creepy dairy had happened, she was depressed, overwhelmed, and had nothing to loose, not a good mix. Of course she blamed Kenny for what he did, but she didn't even try to understand, that he tried to protect every one of them, because we saw one dead guy turn in a matter of minutes, and taking that risk in a locked room would have been stupid, yes... even though he opened his mouth if you did CPR, Kenny did the right thing with killing Larry, his-fucking-heart-stopped-beating, and we had no tools. She said everyone thinks of her as a @Lilly Caul said: (...)Goddamn nazi (...) and with her behaviour in the RV, pointing fingers at random persons she has proven herself to be kind of like a nazi, they killed people because they thought they deserved it, so did she, didn't she? At the side of the road? Because someone had the guts to speak up? Hitler killed people for speaking up, and so did she.
    Rick, Lee and Kenny, none of them killed people for their opinion, or because they thought, that they might be dangerous.
    Maybe she was a nice person before she's lost it, and maybe I even didn't hate Larry, but the fact that she's lost it and snapped makes her a shitty leader, and she killed Carley, who we know was innocent, thus I don't think very highly of her, I don't want to use the word "hate" it's too strong, "hate" is the feeling I had, when Super-Ben left Clementine to die in E4, or when I heard of Crawford's "no burdens"-policy.

    I know I'm writing in a "Pro-Lilly" thread, but I don't know where else to write my opinion on her, if some Lilly fans want to try and convince me she ain't that bad afterall, go ahead and try - I'm listening to reason...

  • If you were a leader and your muscle is on a supply run. Who would you want on watch being that your at your weakest. A 16 year old band geek or an military trained killer? To me thats not even a question. In the ARMY the low man gets watch. Even then they are trained properly and at least the age of 18. This is not the army. It is a band of civs. Lilys leadership is so bad. She puts a child on watch and goes hides in her room. On top of that if she is not on watch how does Ben steal without being notice. I mean WTF is Lily doing if she is not on watch and all the supplies are in her room. I truly believe Lily is intentionally tryin to sabotage the group.

  • @ZeroShoot said: As this thread keeps popping up (28 pages, well done :D )
    Here's my opinion on Lilly:
    When we first met her, she seemed overwhelmed with the fact that she was the leader of a group, she couldn't calm anyone down, barely anyone listened to what she said, but she seemed nice - at least. Then at the motor inn, I knew she wouldn't be a good leader, because she was too cold hearted already, after 3 months she lost as much humanity as Rick did in twice or three times the time, and he is kind of insane right now, so it was predictable to me, that she would loose it at some point soon. Then what happened at the creepy dairy had happened, she was depressed, overwhelmed, and had nothing to loose, not a good mix. Of course she blamed Kenny for what he did, but she didn't even try to understand, that he tried to protect every one of them, because we saw one dead guy turn in a matter of minutes, and taking that risk in a locked room would have been stupid, yes... even though he opened his mouth if you did CPR, Kenny did the right thing with killing Larry, his-fucking-heart-stopped-beating, and we had no tools. She said everyone thinks of her as a and with her behaviour in the RV, pointing fingers at random persons she has proven herself to be kind of like a nazi, they killed people because they thought they deserved it, so did she, didn't she? At the side of the road? Because someone had the guts to speak up? Hitler killed people for speaking up, and so did she.
    Rick, Lee and Kenny, none of them killed people for their opinion, or because they thought, that they might be dangerous.
    Maybe she was a nice person before she's lost it, and maybe I even didn't hate Larry, but the fact that she's lost it and snapped makes her a shitty leader, and she killed Carley, who we know was innocent, thus I don't think very highly of her, I don't want to use the word "hate" it's too strong, "hate" is the feeling I had, when Super-Ben left Clementine to die in E4, or when I heard of Crawford's "no burdens"-policy.

    I know I'm writing in a "Pro-Lilly" thread, but I don't know where else to write my opinion on her, if some Lilly fans want to try and convince me she ain't that bad afterall, go ahead and try - I'm listening to reason...

    I don't think I need to convince you anything, you seem to know quite enough :P. In case you haven't noticed, maybe the last three pages are almost nothing but Anti-Lilly comments haha. I hate her for reasons of my own, some of which you didn't bring up, but I'll assume you just didn't feel like writing essays. But yeah, not a very nice person :P

  • @GREYxDUZxKRUSH said: If you were a leader and your muscle is on a supply run. Who would you want on watch being that your at your weakest. A 16 year old band geek or an military trained killer? To me thats not even a question. In the ARMY the low man gets watch. Even then they are trained properly and at least the age of 18. This is not the army. It is a band of civs. Lilys leadership is so bad. She puts a child on watch and goes hides in her room. On top of that if she is not on watch how does Ben steal without being notice. I mean WTF is Lily doing if she is not on watch and all the supplies are in her room. I truly believe Lily is intentionally tryin to sabotage the group.

    Yeah, that was one of the main things I couldn't understand. Like, you are right there, yet somehow things are getting stolen? Stash it somewhere and put a damn lock on, it's not like people have saws or the tools to cut off heavy-duty locks, and they shouldn't be too hard to find, considering not many people need them anymore.

  • @ZeroShoot said: As this thread keeps popping up (28 pages, well done :D )
    Here's my opinion on Lilly:
    When we first met her, she seemed overwhelmed with the fact that she was the leader of a group, she couldn't calm anyone down, barely anyone listened to what she said, but she seemed nice - at least. Then at the motor inn, I knew she wouldn't be a good leader, because she was too cold hearted already, after 3 months she lost as much humanity as Rick did in twice or three times the time, and he is kind of insane right now, so it was predictable to me, that she would loose it at some point soon. Then what happened at the creepy dairy had happened, she was depressed, overwhelmed, and had nothing to loose, not a good mix. Of course she blamed Kenny for what he did, but she didn't even try to understand, that he tried to protect every one of them, because we saw one dead guy turn in a matter of minutes, and taking that risk in a locked room would have been stupid, yes... even though he opened his mouth if you did CPR, Kenny did the right thing with killing Larry, his-fucking-heart-stopped-beating, and we had no tools. She said everyone thinks of her as a and with her behaviour in the RV, pointing fingers at random persons she has proven herself to be kind of like a nazi, they killed people because they thought they deserved it, so did she, didn't she? At the side of the road? Because someone had the guts to speak up? Hitler killed people for speaking up, and so did she.
    Rick, Lee and Kenny, none of them killed people for their opinion, or because they thought, that they might be dangerous.
    Maybe she was a nice person before she's lost it, and maybe I even didn't hate Larry, but the fact that she's lost it and snapped makes her a shitty leader, and she killed Carley, who we know was innocent, thus I don't think very highly of her, I don't want to use the word "hate" it's too strong, "hate" is the feeling I had, when Super-Ben left Clementine to die in E4, or when I heard of Crawford's "no burdens"-policy.

    I know I'm writing in a "Pro-Lilly" thread, but I don't know where else to write my opinion on her, if some Lilly fans want to try and convince me she ain't that bad afterall, go ahead and try - I'm listening to reason...

    On Larry, I don't blame Lilly for not trying to understand. Most people wouldn't either. Hell, the fact that Kenny didn't end up as a friendly fire casualty down the road shows a lot of restraint on her part, given it was her last family member. It was part of the reason I decided to help Larry; a living, thinking person with a firearm is a much bigger threat to me than a walker is.

    Being cold-hearted in her case? It was kinda justified; had Ben been given the boot (as she wanted) in Ep. 2, things would've been quite a bit better for a number of people.

    Fact is, while Lilly certainly has her faults (and big ones), she was downright prescient at times. The previous example I cited for Ben. On Kenny? "Wait until it happens to him" (and we know that Kenny actually would've gotten people on the train killed had Lee not stepped up). Ditto for wanting to leave the Dairy after Mark was attacked. And the fact is, even in Ep. 3 she was right for the most part; supplies were being stolen and Ben was responsible (Carley being where she lost it). The choice I made to leave Lilly on the road would've been a lot harder if she had only killed Ben (I was reasonably certain he was guilty too). Hell, she was even right to be hesitant about stealing from the car in Ep. 2, that comes back to bite us in the ass (or arm, in this case) come Ep. 5.

    I've covered this elsewhere, but sometimes due process and the like need to go out the window. Hitler and his followers killed for power and because they were nuts. Lilly killed people because she thought they were a threat to the group. Hell, even in the U.S. some of those guarantees of equitable justice and such go out the window; Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus, FDR kept a pretty tight lid on the press, etc.

    And the fact is, Kenny did basically kill Larry because he thought he might be dangerous. In that case, choosing between him and Lilly is basically flipping a coin; there's no real difference between the two.

  • @GREYxDUZxKRUSH said: If you were a leader and your muscle is on a supply run. Who would you want on watch being that your at your weakest. A 16 year old band geek or an military trained killer? To me thats not even a question. In the ARMY the low man gets watch. Even then they are trained properly and at least the age of 18. This is not the army. It is a band of civs. Lilys leadership is so bad. She puts a child on watch and goes hides in her room. On top of that if she is not on watch how does Ben steal without being notice. I mean WTF is Lily doing if she is not on watch and all the supplies are in her room. I truly believe Lily is intentionally tryin to sabotage the group.

    Actually, I was given watch duty at the age of 17 before I left for basic and didn't even have a rifle issued to me yet (I enlisted in the split-option program while I was still a junior in high school)... so yeah. :p

    The low guy gets watch duty in the Army... period. Being trained? That was optional. A big chunk of the purpose of being on watch is to alert everyone else if there's a problem. Nobody really expects Private Joe Blow to take care of a problem by himself.

    And we don't know all the supplies were in her room, as far as I know. Only the last pack that Lee and Kenny brought in... and odds are she had to you know, sleep or use the facilities at some point anyway.

  • @YamiRaziel said: Carley died. Why spend time crying about her? She was missing most of episode 2 anyway...

    Carley shouldn't have died cause of amazing aim and ben... IDK he was dumb and gets people killed often so i don't have much defence for him ):

  • @ZeroShoot said: As this thread keeps popping up (28 pages, well done :D )
    Here's my opinion on Lilly:
    When we first met her, she seemed overwhelmed with the fact that she was the leader of a group, she couldn't calm anyone down, barely anyone listened to what she said, but she seemed nice - at least. Then at the motor inn, I knew she wouldn't be a good leader, because she was too cold hearted already, after 3 months she lost as much humanity as Rick did in twice or three times the time, and he is kind of insane right now, so it was predictable to me, that she would loose it at some point soon. Then what happened at the creepy dairy had happened, she was depressed, overwhelmed, and had nothing to loose, not a good mix. Of course she blamed Kenny for what he did, but she didn't even try to understand, that he tried to protect every one of them, because we saw one dead guy turn in a matter of minutes, and taking that risk in a locked room would have been stupid, yes... even though he opened his mouth if you did CPR, Kenny did the right thing with killing Larry, his-fucking-heart-stopped-beating, and we had no tools. She said everyone thinks of her as a and with her behaviour in the RV, pointing fingers at random persons she has proven herself to be kind of like a nazi, they killed people because they thought they deserved it, so did she, didn't she? At the side of the road? Because someone had the guts to speak up? Hitler killed people for speaking up, and so did she.
    Rick, Lee and Kenny, none of them killed people for their opinion, or because they thought, that they might be dangerous.
    Maybe she was a nice person before she's lost it, and maybe I even didn't hate Larry, but the fact that she's lost it and snapped makes her a shitty leader, and she killed Carley, who we know was innocent, thus I don't think very highly of her, I don't want to use the word "hate" it's too strong, "hate" is the feeling I had, when Super-Ben left Clementine to die in E4, or when I heard of Crawford's "no burdens"-policy.

    I know I'm writing in a "Pro-Lilly" thread, but I don't know where else to write my opinion on her, if some Lilly fans want to try and convince me she ain't that bad afterall, go ahead and try - I'm listening to reason...

    If you like this thread you should see the fuck Kenny thread...it has 65 pages. Is that a record? Anyways..

    Some bad things happened to Lilly along the way in my game that may not have occurred in your play through. I saw a person try to lead and keep a group safe under difficult circumstances. This can be taxing but we also had a prominent member of our group, Kenny, undermine her decisions and plans relentlessly.

    In my game, Kenny also murdered her father right in front of Lilly while the two of us were trying to revive him with CPR. Maybe Larry would have made it like last time when he collapsed in the pharmacy but guess we'll never know.

    Lilly is a strong woman but in talking with her, sitting with her for a while in her hotel room, the murder of her father took it's toll, maybe it even broke her. I tried my best to convince her that I was her friend and that she could count on me but then this issue of a traitor in our group surfaced. Lilly was just sure the traitor was Carley or Ben...well she was partially correct.

    I think she snapped after the bandit attack and I wish I could say my hands were clean in this matter. The truth is that I initially helped Kenny undermine Lilly too. But I came to my senses and supported Lilly after episode 1. It begs the question, how clean are your hands? She started out okay and then went crazy....what role did you have in this if any?

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