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Team Lily to the end (appreciation thread)

posted by YamiRaziel on - last edited - Viewed by 8.4K users

This topic contains Comic book spoilers. Read at your own risk

I guess I may be the only one here who would still support Lily if she shows up at some future point in time.
Why?
I appreciate her leadership skills, her selflessness (having to make all those little decisions is really difficult) and her reasoning. She tried to keep this group together, she did her very best but some other people...like Kenny always tried to have it their way, always consider what's only best for his family.
I think we all agree it was difficult giving the rations the first time in episode two. We got a glimpse of what she has to do every day. People hated us for those choices, so they hate her even more for having to do it every day. But there's no one else who would do it.

She was still pretty reasonable until Kenny murdered her father. People can complain that he saved them and all that crap... but you couldn't have known for sure and that's the truth. He overreacted and again being the selfish asshole he is, he did the easiest choice for him. Eliminate the enemy and undermine the leader's authority.

In episode 3 we see things haven't changed. Lily is still the only one to really tries to protect the group. Lee, of course, helps always and as much as he can, but others like Kenny... they didn't even feel bad for what they did in episode 2. Kenny ruined this group and yet he still wanted things to go his way. He kept pushing Lily without really doing anything for the group. He was determined to abandon all.
Carley... she didn't really do anything. She could've stepped in and helped Lily when she saw she was about to snap... but she didn't. The only thing she actually did was tease Lee, look cute, and avoid participation in almost every important discussion. The downfall in episode 3 is partially her fault as well.
When the bandits attacked the group it was again Lily that came to the rescue to a group that hated her. Kenny wouldn't swallow my disrespect for him and actually tried to get me killed too many times in this episode.
Ben... and Kenny really started a chain reaction. With both their stupidity combined they managed to indirectly kill Carley, Katjaa and Duck as well destroy the group from within.
Both cowards and both DUBM as a bag of hammers.
I would so love to see them gone in episode 4 & 5. I don't need stupid people in my group, people who know nothing about responsibility or humanity.


It was sad to see Lily snap but I guess there is a line as to where a person can take it. In the end of the day I'm sure she'll regret her choices and will eventually learn from them. She kills Lorry cause she believes they are threatening her group. When she sees how wrong she was she offs the Governor. That's a pretty redeeming deed in my book, one that clearly shows she actually develops.

I would certainly love to see more of her in future episodes/seasons.

So, am I the only one? :D Even if I am, I will still be defending this position to the end :P

695 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @Mark$man said: Also gave you a ride to Macon. Otherwise you'd be dead. Also got the RV working even though Lilly called it pointless, and it saved EVERYONE'S lives. So you could even call it 5 times. Would have been 6 if Clem hadn't left.

    Thanks for adding those points, forgot them... somehow :D

    @Mark$man said: Lee has the conversation entirely in his favor. He could easily(and arguably already did) convince the bandits to leave them alone and continue the deal. This could give the group time to pack up and leave on their own terms, or be better prepared for a bandit attack after they realize they're not getting the supplies again.

    Instead, Lilly screws it all up by killing the bandit, initiating a large firefight, drawing walkers to the motor inn and forcing us to abandon it and all of the supplies we had. We could have defused the situation, gathered whatever we could fit into the RV then drive off by choice, but Lilly destroyed our chances at that.

    Exactly that crazy, reckless... wreck of a woman puts everyone's lifes on the line, because she wants to shoot something, to let out the rage and hatred inside her. Or maybe she just lost the ability to think through and reconsider a plan before acting.

    @Mark$man said: Yeah because the bandits are willing to let you go just like that. Don't be ridiculous. She saves everybody during the bandit raid, whether you are ready to admit it or not.

    They didn't seem to know about the fact, that the RV actually worked, and yeah, why wouldn't they let us? They don't seem like Einstein & friends, but rather like some dumbass pricks, who think they intimidated us into finally giving them what they want. We coulda just drive off, but Lilly had to start a firefight, and if it wasn't for Carley (if you chose her) or Lee (if you didn't) they would've shot Kenny, Clem, Duck, everyone. It was reckless and stupid. We were just very lucky, that that shitty plan worked out - one more bit of evidence for her to finally have lost it.

    @Mark$man said: And about Kenny giving you a ride... that's not much of a favour, after he fucks up your stay at Hershel's. And you know Hershel is still alive at the time when Lee dies, so if you count Kenny giving you a ride as a big favour, I can count it quite the opposite.

    Did you miss the part where Hershel made perfectly clear that he wanted us gone by the day after the one we came? If it wasn't for Ken, we would have walked to Macon, and regarding they started driving in the morning, and arrived in the evening (by car), that would have been a long walk.

  • Yeah but that's debatable. Otis wasn't a part of Hershel's family but he let him stay didn't he? Same for Rick's group. I believe that Hershel could've been persuaded. As for Lilly, yeah, I would've start a fight too. The Motel was a good place and I wasn't ready to lose it either. Being settle in a zombie apocalypse is much better than being on the road. You prefer to go for the unknown in RV that isn't even properly working, fine, but that doesn't make it the absolute truth.
    You see, everything in this game is a matter of perception. For me personally, whenever Kenny had to make a decision, he made the absolute worst. He was dumb, reckless, selfish and cowardly, and I wanted to get rid of him since episode 2.

  • @Mornai said: Lee has the conversation entirely in his favor. He could easily(and arguably already did) convince the bandits to leave them alone and continue the deal. This could give the group time to pack up and leave on their own terms, or be better prepared for a bandit attack after they realize they're not getting the supplies again.

    Instead, Lilly screws it all up by killing the bandit, initiating a large firefight, drawing walkers to the motor inn and forcing us to abandon it and all of the supplies we had. We could have defused the situation, gathered whatever we could fit into the RV then drive off by choice, but Lilly destroyed our chances at that.

    I've covered this in the past (in this very thread, in fact). Expecting the bandits to act in good faith with any deal is frankly, well, stupid. We're talking about people that rape and murder each other for grins and giggles - look at Jolene.

    Lee wasn't sent out there to negotiate; he went out there to distract the bandits, that was the whole point - at no point does he disagree with Lilly's plan either.

    And if the bandits decide to do something you don't like (such as say, taking Clem, since we know they have a thing for little girls)? You've basically forfeit the initiative. Hell, they might decide to move into the motel or take the RV; whoops.

    There's a reason we have a fight or flight response, not a fight or flight or maybe invite them over for tea response. Fleeing wasn't an option.

    I could also just as easily point out that had Ben been kicked out of the group in Episode 2 as Lilly wanted, the bandits probably never would've been in a position to take hostages in the first place. We know from dialogue that the bandits had been attacking for weeks and evidently never even made it past the wall (it's riddled with crossbow bolts and bullet holes) until Ben basically sold out the group.

    Was starting a shootout then ideal? No. Despite that, the fact remains every other option is riskier because they require you to expect the raping, murdering bandits to be honest, upstanding people that won't take advantage.

  • @YamiRaziel said: Yeah but that's debatable. Otis wasn't a part of Hershel's family but he let him stay didn't he? Same for Rick's group. I believe that Hershel could've been persuaded.

    He let Rick's group stay, yes, but look what it took (barn scene, bar scene) after that he finally let them stay. He wasn't planning to either.

    @YamiRaziel said: As for Lilly, yeah, I would've start a fight too. The Motel was a good place and I wasn't ready to lose it either. Being settle in a zombie apocalypse is much better than being on the road. You prefer to go for the unknown in RV that isn't even properly working, fine, but that doesn't make it the absolute truth.

    I don't say fighting is the wrong way, just not in a hostage situation, when you're the only one who's got a gun. They could have let the bandits walk off, and then they just had to wait and prepare, and strike back. What she did was risking everyone. What if neither one, not Carley, not Lee would have taken the gun and shot the bandits? We don't know, but I think at least some people from our group would be dead - due to that "smart" move.
    -There is no such thing as the absolute truth in The Walking Dead or apocalypses at all, that's one of the main reasons the topic fascinates me, just one more reason, why I love this game, the show, and the universe as a whole.
    Not even now we can say, what would have happened if she didn't take the shot, too many if-questions, possibilities, variables - whatever you wanna call it.

    @YamiRaziel said: You see, everything in this game is a matter of perception.

    I don't know if I would say "everything" but at least the very most things, yes I gotta agree with you there.

  • @Rommel49 said: I've covered this in the past (in this very thread, in fact). Expecting the bandits to act in good faith with any deal is frankly, well, stupid. We're talking about people that rape and murder each other for grins and giggles - look at Jolene.

    Lee wasn't sent out there to negotiate; he went out there to distract the bandits, that was the whole point - at no point does he disagree with Lilly's plan either.

    And if the bandits decide to do something you don't like (such as say, taking Clem, since we know they have a thing for little girls)? You've basically forfeit the initiative. Hell, they might decide to move into the motel or take the RV; whoops.

    There's a reason we have a fight or flight response, not a fight or flight or maybe invite them over for tea response. Fleeing wasn't an option.

    I could also just as easily point out that had Ben been kicked out of the group in Episode 2 as Lilly wanted, the bandits probably never would've been in a position to take hostages in the first place. We know from dialogue that the bandits had been attacking for weeks and evidently never even made it past the wall (it's riddled with crossbow bolts and bullet holes) until Ben basically sold out the group.

    Was starting a shootout then ideal? No. Despite that, the fact remains every other option is riskier because they require you to expect the raping, murdering bandits to be honest, upstanding people that won't take advantage.

    Lee doesn't disagree because he doesn't have time to, Lilly bursts out the window before he can even fully understand exactly what the heck she is talking about. She forces it onto him without a choice.

    It is already shown that the bandits will cooperate no matter which dialogue option you choose, so there's no need to fear otherwise. Even if they demanded something extra such as a hostage, it would have been better for Lilly to fire after they're in the middle or end of negotiating the deal, when the bandits have their guard down. Not saying she shouldn't have fired at all, but she picked the worst possible time to do so, which was impatient and careless.

    I don't disagree on the part about Ben, though one could just as easily say that if Ben was thrown out, the group would not know that you turn after you die, and Larry could have killed everyone in the meat locker. What ifs don't really help a lot.

  • Lilly is a bitch and Kenny is an asshole

    /end

  • @vivec said: Lilly is a bitch and Kenny is an asshole

    /end

    Lilly lacks reason and critical thinking and Kenny has the right motivation but the wrong execution.

  • Lilly's reasoning is far better than Kenny's but I don't know why you turn a fan topic into a battlefield where you just pour hate. I mean there are plenty of topics for that, why do it here?

  • @YamiRaziel said: Lilly's reasoning is far better than Kenny's but I don't know why you turn a fan topic into a battlefield where you just pour hate. I mean there are plenty of topics for that, why do it here?

    It's not hate, it's appreciation for a good villain. Characters are meant to get a reaction, either you hate them or love them. If you don't get either of those then the character has failed.

    The fact that so many people despise her is proof that she is a well-written, quality character.

  • @YamiRaziel said: Yeah because the bandits are willing to let you go just like that. Don't be ridiculous. She saves everybody during the bandit raid, whether you are ready to admit it or not.

    And about Kenny giving you a ride... that's not much of a favour, after he fucks up your stay at Hershel's. And you know Hershel is still alive at the time when Lee dies, so if you count Kenny giving you a ride as a big favour, I can count it quite the opposite.

    In case you haven't realized, even by trying to save his son, Hershel still doesn't want you there! And Kenny still lets you and Clem with him.

    Also, yeah they most likely would have. They were humans, in case you couldn't see they had no walker symptoms. They were doing it "because we gotta, that's why!" They were in tough situation, and so you could call them the bully of the school. They'll threaten and maybe want your lunch money, but if you follow them they'll let you go. Not like they grab up your friend and go "I want it everyday or I'll kick his ass". If they took someone hostage, the group wouldn't have been too happy, and would have made the group too unpredictable for the bandits to handle. So they would try not to instigate the group to the best of their ability.

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