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TWD TV - That Season 3 ending...

posted by Phil_TWD on - last edited - Viewed by 764 users

I honestly was expecting the governor (Philip) to be killed but nope, Andrea, that kid, the crew who was with him pretty much were all dead because of him or his actions.

It was unsatisfying and this is Andrea's fault mainly, because if she had slit his throat while he was asleep only he would have died.

Oh yeah, since they were awaiting them at the prison they could've locked them down and shot them all like a bunch of walkers, and/or throw grenades to blow them up if they had any left.

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  • @Alex Tail said: What I meant to say was, Hershel is older than Carl. As Rick is the group leader, Hershel was a leader of their 2 men group (if that makes seance) So it wasn't who called shotgun, but who's making choices. And it wasn't up to Carl to make the choice.



    Hershel also didn't tell the other people with him to stand down. Just because he gave the kid the order to drop it doesn't mean everybody else is obligated to wait until he either complies or tries something.

    @Alex Tail said: you are clearly wrong, it was murder

    Murder's typically defined as the illegal killing of one human being by another; if there's no law, there technically can't even be murder, right? :p

    More seriously, as double u and I pointed out, even today it'd easily pass scrutiny under international law. As long as somebody has a weapon in hand, they're still a combatant (and thus fair game to be shot), period. For the practical reason as to why, we see as much just a few minutes later with the Governor. I doubt anyone would've called foul if Allen had killed him.

  • @Irishmile said: Andrea is alot more likeable in the books, they really dropped the ball with her in the show, so much so that the big emotional ending they were trying for was a complete failure because I have not heard of anyone caring that they killed her on the show. I still love the show but I was expecting a bigger season ending than that.



    I cried... i love andrea.

  • @thestalkinghead said: i think he did want to kill someone, he wanted to prove a point that he could and also (probable because he is scared) he thinks killing people that may be any kind of threat is the best option, but obviously it isn't, it not only morally wrong it is also just not the smart thing to do to kill everybody you meet, he may have ended it it a spectacularly bad way but the governor built up a community and you can't do that if you just kill everybody



    The governor also required newcomers give up their weapons when they came into Woodbury. I'm also inclined to doubt he had a welcoming attitude to people that were shooting at him or those he cared about just a few minutes earlier. ;)

    Nobody's talking about "killing everybody you meet", we're talking about killing someone acting suspiciously while he has a weapon in hand and pointed in the general direction of you and your friends (the fact he had just taken part in an attack on the place you sleep is incidental, yet important).

    Carl says it best: he couldn't take the chance. All the kid had to do was move his weapon a bit to the left and pull the trigger and that's potentially Carl, Hershel, or Beth exceeding their recommended daily allowance of lead.

  • @Rommel49 said: The governor also required newcomers give up their weapons when they came into Woodbury. I'm also inclined to doubt he had a welcoming attitude to people that were shooting at him or those he cared about just a few minutes earlier. ;)

    Nobody's talking about "killing everybody you meet", we're talking about killing someone acting suspiciously while he has a weapon in hand and pointed in the general direction of you and your friends (the fact he had just taken part in an attack on the place you sleep is incidental, yet important).

    Carl says it best: he couldn't take the chance. All the kid had to do was move his weapon a bit to the left and pull the trigger and that's potentially Carl, Hershel, or Beth exceeding their recommended daily allowance of lead.



    well carl is full of bullshit, it was murder even if law doesn't exist, murder is just as much about the morality of the situation as it is the specific laws of whatever country it happens, the kid had clearly given up and was handing over his gun

  • @thestalkinghead said: well carl is full of bullshit, it was murder even if law doesn't exist, murder is just as much about the morality of the situation as it is the specific laws of whatever country it happens, the kid had clearly given up and was handing over his gun



    I understand you are making a strong moral objection here, but we can't dismiss some of the facts of the situation.

    First, can you explain what makes you think that shotgun kid "had clearly given up?"

    From my perspective, I do not think shotgun kid has demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that he has given up. When people surrender, they naturally obey everything they are told to do because they fear for their lives. Heck, even soldiers who speak different languages, when they surrender naturally lay down their arms immediately and put up their hands to prove they are not a threat. Laying down your arms is both logically and instinctively the right thing to do if you want to surrender and save your own life.

    Hershel clearly instructed shotgun kid to drop his weapon. But instead of following instructions for surrendering, shotgun kid walked towards Hershel and Carl with weapon in hand. Any soldier or police officer will tell you that any time someone does not comply, they need to be treated as a threat because they might attempt to pull a fast one.

    Also take a look at where the action is on the shotgun. It's pushed forward which means a shell is chambered. All shotgun kid has to do is slightly swing the weapon towards Carl when he's "handing over" the weapon and fill him with buckshot.

    While perhaps Carl and Hershel can be criticized for not warning shotgun kid again (i.e. "Freeze! I said drop the fucking gun!"), he didn't prove that he was going surrender simply by not complying with instructions. Carl's shot, IMO, was justified.

  • Lily murdered Carley. She was defensless and was not threatening. Carl did not murder that guy. He made the right call in THAT situation.

  • @thestalkinghead said: well carl is full of bullshit, it was murder even if law doesn't exist, murder is just as much about the morality of the situation as it is the specific laws of whatever country it happens, the kid had clearly given up and was handing over his gun

    If anyone was full of bullshit, it was Hershel. Jody was told to drop the gun and walk away. Instead Jody was gradually inching closer to Carl, shifting his gaze between them as if measuring them up, with his shotgun still in hand despite being told to drop it. It looked to me like he was going to try to lunge at Carl the same way Rick did to the madman at the cabin and Shane. And had this encounter been in a real life combat zone or a confrontation with law enforcement you can bet Jody would've been shot. To surrender is to drop your weapon and raise your hands, not to slowly inch forward "offering" your gun so that you can lunge at the guy and take him hostage...and with only 5 feet between them a lunge at Carl had a good chance of succeeding.

  • whatever, you can try and justify carls actions all you want he murdered that kid and if he continues on the path he is on he will become an amoral monster

  • I think the real question here is "Do you think Carl will become like the governor/Shane?"

    This thing about the shotgun kid is sorta biased because we really don't know what the kid was thinking, it looked to go about 50/50. I think he personally shot the kid for enjoyment, but that there was a good reason for doing so. However, I think he is turning down the wrong path.

  • I just can't see it how people find Carls' action the right call. The kid was pointing the gun the other way. It was only one kid that was scared. Why would a kid try to pull of anything? It's a kid we're talking about here, not some badass warrior that knows how to pull out a stun and get away with it.

    Apocalypse or no, if you fired first - it's a murder. If you fired second - that's a cross fire. Police would not shoot if the suspect would not follow orders on the first command. They would give second one, then the third one if needed. And if that wouldn't help, they would start a slow approach to the suspect. If a suspect tried to pull anything, they would shoot his foot or hand, they wouldn't go for a kill. It's all about neutralizing not eliminating.

    Because if Carl made the right call, then the Govenor isn't wrong for killing all his people. They disobeyed him so now he shouldn't take any chances with them.

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