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Pirating Games: Good Gods, Read This

posted by DAISHI on - last edited - Viewed by 746 users

http://www.greenheartgames.com/2013/04/29/what-happens-when-pirates-play-a-game-development-simulator-and-then-go-bankrupt-because-of-piracy/

Over 93.6% of players stole the game. We know this because our game contains some code to send anonymous-usage data to our server. Nothing unusual or harmful. Heaps of games/apps do this and we use it to better understand how the game is played. It’s absolutely anonymous and you are covered by our privacy policy. Anyway, the cracked version has a separate ID so I can separate the data. I’m sure some of the players have firewalls and some will play offline therefore the actual number of players for the cracked version is likely much higher.

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  • @DAISHI said: I guess you and Vainamonen aren't on good terms :D

    Not on this point. Because Vainamonen is delusional.:(

  • Live in the now!


    Great experiment too.

  • @der_ketzer said: Not on this point. Because Vainamonen is delusional.:(

    Now now, is that any way to talk about your superior? :p

    I don't entirely know why Vain doesn't like DRM (which Steam, let's be honest here, pretty much is), but sooner or later he's going to have to accept that Steam, and services like it (like Desura and Origi*snicker*), are popular and well-used for a reason.

    It's not only a way for games to be easily distributed, but it's also one way of maintaining a (supposedly) stable and secure location for all of a game's files. DRM Free stuff doesn't have that luxury, sadly.

    Because Steam is such a big thing, if your game isn't on it (or a similar service - there's quite a few popping up these days), it's going to be missed by a lot of people who use Steam and Steam alone. That doesn't account for most of us (I hope), but you'd be surprised how many others rely solely on Steam now for their games.

    It's a tough place for indie developers to be in - be on Steam or don't sell - and hopefully things like Greenlight can alleviate that somewhat. But even so, there really does need to be better alternatives.

  • I actually have to agree on Darth Marsden's notion.

    In fact, I think this might hurt them more than do them good. If they had, for example, waited until Total Biscuit's video had come out and had garnered enough views, the numbers would be much lower. Right now however it makes it look like piracy really did wrong, and that rubs some people the wrong way.

    Also, code that secretly sends out data is still iffy.

  • Also worth noting that it appears the legit version has a three-machine install limit, much like SecuROM.

    Double-checking this now, but that... that's not cool at all.

    EDIT: From the page linked to in the first post (emphasis is by me):

    [Quote]The game is DRM free, you can use it on up to three of your computers for your own use[/Quote]Wow, that seems like a massive contradiction of terms, and within the same sentence no less.

  • DRM free but 3 machine limit and the game sends data through the net? Sounds legit to me.

    @GaryCXJk said: If they had, for example, waited until Total Biscuit's video had come out and had garnered enough views, the numbers would be much lower.

    It was a stream and I don't think that would have happened at all without the news of the anti piracy mechanism.

  • Yeah, fuck that shit then, I *was* thinking about purchasing it, but now, I really don't know.

    Here's the thing though, one has to realize that indie games don't always draw from the shortest end of the schlong. Or whatever the thingy was. The point is, the main thing that makes indie games not sell are mainly lack of advertisement and lack of exposure.

    I mean, the only reason I knew about the Blackwell series is because of Indie Royale. Doing stuff like adding your game on Desura helps a tonne, people, especially indie developers, forget things like that exist. Desura might be a bit strict on what games can be on it, but once you are on it you have a decently sized userbase that might be your target. Same goes for GOG, although that might be even more strict, and Steam. Greenlight is one of the best ways to garner a bit of exposure.

    The beauty of Desura however is that it's both DRM free and the games are actually linked to an account, which would get rid of stupid shit like limited activations. This ain't Ubisoft or EA, people, you don't add stupid shit like that. Even Telltale Games realizes that limiting the amount of installs is pretty pointless and stupid. Sure, legal shit forces them to put a limit on it, but that limit is so high that you'd only run out if you format your computer twenty times or something, and even then you could always contact customer support to get the amount reset or something.

    So yeah, F this game in the A.

  • @Darth Marsden said: The problem is that, before this story came out, not many people knew of the game, nor how to get it. Not that this is even remotely a defence for the pirates, but when the game in question is tricky to actually purchase and the developers themselves actually put a version of the game up on pirate sites, these sorts of figures aren't that surprising.

    I agree.

    And then there's the fact that someone like me doesn't pirate games, yet most likely still would not have bought the game even were it on Steam.

    This article got me considering whether to buy it, but the truth is that I wouldn't play it.

    @Darth Marsden said: Because Steam is such a big thing, if your game isn't on it (or a similar service - there's quite a few popping up these days), it's going to be missed by a lot of people who use Steam and Steam alone. That doesn't account for most of us (I hope), but you'd be surprised how many others rely solely on Steam now for their games.

    It's a tough place for indie developers to be in - be on Steam or don't sell - and hopefully things like Greenlight can alleviate that somewhat. But even so, there really does need to be better alternatives.

    I am one of these people. I use GOG and Steam, and that's it. And when it comes down to it, which one I buy a game on largely depends on comparable content (eg. Standard vs. GOTY) and price.


    And yet, I think about what the PC gaming world was probably like 10, 15 or 20 years ago, when indie devs would have had a harder time getting their game noticed on a physical shelf amongst a crap ton of other games.

    So even though many people prefer to keep most of their eggs in one basket, it's probably a heck of a lot easier to get in on the PC gaming market than it used to be.

    @Darth Marsden said: The point is, the main thing that makes indie games not sell are mainly lack of advertisement and lack of exposure.

    And this the best point to be made about this.

    Before reading this thread, I don't recall ever hearing about this game (not that I would have bought it anyway, but still.)

    Marketing your product well is extremely important. And they didn't. It's no wonder why the pirates grossly outweigh the legitimate buyers when the devs themselves let the torrent tracker do more marketing for their pirated version than they themselves did for the legit version.


    Also... DRM-free, yet a 3 machine limit? Does not compute.

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    Vainamoinen Moderator

    They said it's your right to install on three machines, they did not say the game is able to enforce that.
    Also, they said the torrent version of the game sends data to them, not the DRM free sales version.

    If that, by any chance, IS the case... I might have a chat with them.

    @der_ketzer said: It has always been this way though. Be on Steam or be dead on PC as an indie developer.

    @der_ketzer said: Not on this point. Because Vainamonen is delusional.:(

    You misunderstand. I never doubted the facts of your first quote and that is the reason why the platform Steam has to be stopped in that respect. Valve probably consists of a lot of really nice guys, but a dominated market is going down, and Steam's monopoly over the ENTIRE PC GAMES MARKET is pretty much complete. Or to mother-fucking quote the Greenheart Games guys:

    Do you hate the recent trends in the industry? Buy DRM free games.

    That's EXACTLY what I do, almost exclusively these last years. What's so delusional about that?

    @der_ketzer said: I guess you and Vainamonen aren't on good terms :D

    We're usually on very good terms, and agree on quite a lot of things. But for this last bit, I might have to insist on an apology. :mad:

    @der_ketzer said: DRM (which Steam, let's be honest here, pretty much is)

    It is the "pretty much" part here that really scares me. Praise a hosting service as a "secure location" for your games (i.e. they control the files, its installation etc. ad aeternum), install its sales platform directly on your PC, accept their right for always online DRM and optional periodical online reactivation with the EULA, and of course go online to activate offline mode... but it's only "pretty much" DRM? "Pretty much"? Seriously?

    @der_ketzer said: It's a tough place for indie developers to be in - be on Steam or don't sell - and hopefully things like Greenlight can alleviate that somewhat.

    Contradict me. Please. Contradict me: Greenlight is a survey among Steam users with the intent to find out which indie games have ALREADY garnered enough of a fan base to prove lucrative to Valve. It doesn't raise the general interest of PC gamers in indie games by an inch.

  • @Vainamoinen said: Contradict me. Please. Contradict me: Greenlight is a survey among Steam users with the intent to find out which indie games have ALREADY garnered enough of a fan base to prove lucrative to Valve. It doesn't raise the general interest of PC gamers in indie games by an inch.

    I guess the intent was different but right now it is just that. You cannot get more exposure with a now kinda hidden feature that lists 8 of thousands games on it's starting page.
    Steam is no longer the only curator of the games that go on Steam, which is a good thing but Greenlight itself is useless unless you already have enough exposure.
    Still I am convinced without Steam indie games on PC would still be dead and not nearly have the exposure they get from simply being on Steam / having a Steamsale.

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