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The Kickstarter thread

posted by Darth Marsden on - last edited - Viewed by 15.1K users

Since there's probably going to be a fair few Kickstarter projects that aren't done by Tim Schafer, I thought it might be nice to start a separate thread for all the little games on Kickstarter that don't get as much exposure.

For example: Feeble's Fable: The Legend of Runes by Atomic Chimp Games. Another point-and-click adventure game, but this one is going for more of a cute and charming feel. It definitely looks interesting, though they've nowhere near the backing they need. :(

And another: Americana Dawn by one guy, Max K. Lambert. It's a freeware retro-styled RPG about the French & Indian War and the American War for Independence. Kickstarter page is a little bare (he doesn't actually say what he needs the money for, for one), but it looks like an awesome game.

So let's see what other Kickstarter projects you think is worth shining a little light on!

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  • Ah its only this way because its a proper game though, (what we all wanted!), and again Tim's a pretty clever fella and he's found the best solution here.
    (And in a way its good to expose the game to more people anyway.)

    I'm positively itching to try it anyway! XD

  • On Double Fine. I think this dovetails with the concern everybody ALREADY had about them starting a SECOND kickstarter for their other game. Thereby being an irksome situation.

  • Everybody or just a vocal minority?

    I'll admit I wish the game was done by now, but if this is what it takes to make an adventure game with the scope of the classics I love, I'm fine with it taking longer and requiring a bigger budget. This is really only an issue that we know about because of the unique insight into the production we have because of the Kickstarter and the promise of backer updates.

    I think what is probably more of a reason for concern is that the early access will be Steam exclusive. I understand that there are practical reasons for it and personally I don't have a problem with it, but I do understand that this could be upsetting to some.

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    Vainamoinen Moderator

    @flesk said: I'll admit I wish the game was done by now, but if this is what it takes to make an adventure game with the scope of the classics I love, I'm fine with it taking longer and requiring a bigger budget.

    Your stance is commendable, but it unfortunately is based on an incorrect assumption. For comparison, Daedalic Entertainment routinely makes adventure games much with the scope of the classics at a budget of 500,000€ per game with far less manpower and far less developed industry contacts, far more detailed graphics and animation, and they now release about two or three games per year.

    Tim Schafer still is my creative hero, but it is the very unfortunate truth that at the helm of Double Fine, in charge of any kind of project management, he is very obviously incapable. A 2D adventure game is about the most projectable game there is. 3.1 million $ as a starting point (Kickstarter percentage already deduced) is a gift from heaven. Eight months of planned production time (hence 387,500$ per month) was a rather tight schedule, but still doable. How could one possibly run an easy development project like this into the ground?

    Yet, what do we have now? An ETA of mid July 2014 at the earliest, bringing the originally planned 8 months of development time to at least 28 and therewith the original planned costs from these three million dollars to about 11,000,000$. That's the number you haven't heard yet, but that's the money development time will burn with their calculations when they take until mid 2014 to finish with the same staff strength. If they take until 2015 even, Tim will have blown up the tiny adventure game project to 15 or even 20 million. That's not a ludicrous calculation. I've worked as a project manager for five years now and I say that's what Tim is doing because he might have developed his creative skills a lot in these last years, but was obviously never interested in realistic project planning. Which is absolutely OK for a creative genius, but absolutely disastrous for a company founder.

    Selling half the game on Steam won't bring ANYTHING near the necessary 6 to 10 million dollars. What you get in return will still just be a game with halfway adequate yet certainly cost effective graphics. It won't be epic in length. You will not be able to really see where that kind of money went, because it is a badly planned project in which milestones were always missed and the design stage was never final.

    You want Tim Schafer as the lead of your creative team, you really do. But without a superior slapping his fingers hard when he doesn't deliver on his milestones, I'm certain that failure is his constant companion.

    Whoah, didn't even bring Steam into the equation this rant round. Ah, next time.

  • Yeah, hrm. This doesn't bother me or offend me, since it's cool to have a bigger game to look forward to, and I'm not in a hurry. But it does worry me. It'll be sad if they just can't make it work. I certainly trust them to be earnest and to make well-intentioned decisions, but I can't totally trust them to make good financial decisions.

    That said, even in the worst case scenario, the documentary guys may end up with the perfect footage for the "Lost in La Mancha" of game design. This Kickstarter wasn't all about the game, it was about the ups and downs of the process of how a game is made from scratch, and we're certainly seeing that.

    Very good points about Daedalic, Vainamoinen. They certainly could have done a lot with $2.5 million.

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    Vainamoinen Moderator

    @LuigiHann said:
    Very good points about Daedalic, Vainamoinen. They certainly could have done a lot with $2.5 million.

    I didn't know half of it. This from the facebook page of Carsten Fichtelmann, Daedalic founder [my translation]:

    I unfortunately have to admit that the combined budget of Edna's Breakout, Harvey's New Eyes, 1.5 Knights, Deponia, Chaos on Deponia, Goodbye Deponia, A New Beginning, The Whispered World, Satinav's Chains, Memoria, 1954: Alcatraz and The Night of the Rabbit was less than 3M Euro. These are 11 adventure games with a mean length of usually 10 hours. None of these titles is just average! I have no idea what we'd do with 3M. A Heavy Rain, maybe. Should I be depressed? I just think it's alarming that TS wanted to have 0.3M $ and now 3M are not enough. By the way, Deponia 1-3 is more than 40 HOURS long (!) and competes internationally, everywhere.

    Original quote: "Ich muss leider zugeben, dass Edna Bricht Aus, Harveys Neue Augen, 1,5 Ritter, Deponia, Chaos auf Deponia, Goodbye Deponia, A New Beginning, The Whispered World, Satinavs Ketten, Memoria, 1954: Alcatraz und The Night of the Rabbit zusammen keine 3 Mio. Euro gekostet haben. Das sind 11 Adventures mit einer durchschnittlichen Länge von im Regelfall über 10 Stunden. Kein Titel ist Mittelmaß! Ich hab keine Ahnung was wir mit 3M machen würden. Ein Heavy Rain vielleicht. Soll ich deprimiert sein? Ich glaube nicht. Eines Tages werden wir ein Spiel für 3M machen. Bedenklich finde ich nur, dass TS 0,3M US Dollar haben wollte und nun 3M nicht ausreichen. Deponia 1-3 ist übrigens über 40 STUNDEN (!) lang und international überall konkurrenzfähig..."

  • Watched the documentary now (sorry non-backers) and while there's definitely still an overall budgeting/scheduling problem at Double Fine, I feel better about the choice they've made here. The "right" answer to their problem would be to cut the scope of the game in half, to make a smaller game within the budget that they have. And Part 1 is that smaller game, effectively. Then Part 2 will be on top of that, from that money. But we'll see how it plays out.

  • @Vainamoinen said: I didn't know half of it. This from the facebook page of Carsten Fichtelmann, Daedalic founder [my translation]:

    Original quote: "Ich muss leider zugeben, dass Edna Bricht Aus, Harveys Neue Augen, 1,5 Ritter, Deponia, Chaos auf Deponia, Goodbye Deponia, A New Beginning, The Whispered World, Satinavs Ketten, Memoria, 1954: Alcatraz und The Night of the Rabbit zusammen keine 3 Mio. Euro gekostet haben. Das sind 11 Adventures mit einer durchschnittlichen Länge von im Regelfall über 10 Stunden. Kein Titel ist Mittelmaß! Ich hab keine Ahnung was wir mit 3M machen würden. Ein Heavy Rain vielleicht. Soll ich deprimiert sein? Ich glaube nicht. Eines Tages werden wir ein Spiel für 3M machen. Bedenklich finde ich nur, dass TS 0,3M US Dollar haben wollte und nun 3M nicht ausreichen. Deponia 1-3 ist übrigens über 40 STUNDEN (!) lang und international überall konkurrenzfähig..."

    Now it bothers me.

  • I've hand drawn 70 backgrounds, tons of animation loops, and now need to fork over a few thousand for music and painting. The licensed engine is 1200. Voice acting would put in a few thousand.

    I'd love to have 3 million lol.

  • @Vainamoinen said: I didn't know half of it. This from the facebook page of Carsten Fichtelmann, Daedalic founder [my translation]:

    Original quote: "Ich muss leider zugeben, dass Edna Bricht Aus, Harveys Neue Augen, 1,5 Ritter, Deponia, Chaos auf Deponia, Goodbye Deponia, A New Beginning, The Whispered World, Satinavs Ketten, Memoria, 1954: Alcatraz und The Night of the Rabbit zusammen keine 3 Mio. Euro gekostet haben. Das sind 11 Adventures mit einer durchschnittlichen Länge von im Regelfall über 10 Stunden. Kein Titel ist Mittelmaß! Ich hab keine Ahnung was wir mit 3M machen würden. Ein Heavy Rain vielleicht. Soll ich deprimiert sein? Ich glaube nicht. Eines Tages werden wir ein Spiel für 3M machen. Bedenklich finde ich nur, dass TS 0,3M US Dollar haben wollte und nun 3M nicht ausreichen. Deponia 1-3 ist übrigens über 40 STUNDEN (!) lang und international überall konkurrenzfähig..."

    Did he delete this post from his facebook, or do I just suck at looking? I wanted to link it in another forum because it really is an astounding quote.

    I wonder if Daedalic is looking at crowd-funding after this. I would love to see what they could do with half of BA's budget, if only to see better localization. Hearing the English songs in Deponia is painful.

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