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We need romance/sex in games

posted by fusedmass on - Viewed by 14.3K users

I'm not asking you throw in a prono. If its possible to meet a girl, you build up a point of trust till your naked under te sun, caressing each other naked body's...Why cant you make a girlfriend. You can shoot a thousand zombies but you can't make a sl

where i get to 2nd base.

86 Comments
  • If you make sex and romance in a game, you should cater for all people with different sexual and romantic preferences. Otherwise, your game will get critisized a lot. Since it's really complicated to show such relations in games, it's easier to avoid it alltogether like the majority of developers do.

    Personally, the less sex in underwear is shown in games (Dragon Age im looking at you), the better.

    • "If you make sex and romance in a game, you should cater for all people with different sexual and romantic preferences. Otherwise, your game will get critisized a lot."

      What? Are you serious? A few romantic preferences would be nice, but to cater to everyone? Impossible.

      As for myself, I would gladly see some romance in the future. I loved relationship between Bigby and Snow but everyone knows how it turned out.

  • Mass Effect. Heavy Rain. Dragon Age. There's plenty of games that feature sex.

    There's also plenty with a strong romance element to them that DON'T feature sex. I'd highly recommend To The Moon for a beautiful example of this (along with about 75,000 other reasons - just play the damn game).

    Other games that have a strong romance in them include The Darkness (this... doesn't end well), Persona 4, Jade Empire and, of course...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKrm112QhrE

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      fusedmass BANNED

      Why can't we have some of that. Romance stuff. Maybe leads more stuff.

      Why that missing from your games. You should work on that.

      • It's just the story Telltale chose to tell. Not every game needs to have a romance in it, y'know.

        Besides, that's not to say there won't be anything in later episodes - though I doubt it. i suspect Bigby's a little too focused on the murders to worry about romance :)

        Also, can you imagine the uproar if Bigby got together with someone else when the game makes a VERY clear point that he's sweet on Snow (and given what happens in the comics)? I think TTG made the right call here :D


        Disclaimer: Moderators on this forum are volunteers from the community and are not employees of the company. Our posts merely express our personal opinion and should not be mistaken for official company statements.

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          fusedmass BANNED

          The way I see it. proecting a woman from danger, and gurading over her, protecting her and a romance may happen after a while. For an empire builds on choice. I'm suprised the most obvious thing people do dumb and reckless things. Over a woman. Maybe their camera shy.

          Yet I am impressed by their latest game. Something is missing. To Vain. Your saying the wolf actually dates Snow White. I never read the comics. Thanks kindly for robbing me of the joy of discovering that out for them.

          I know every game is different, unique. It doesn't require it. As long we're doing epic battles, bloods blowing up everywhere. The combat is that intense and detailed. Yet I find it lacking no romance option. A guy has his personal needs. it doesn't need be there. But fact almost none of their games build on this..is interesting.

          I want thank Vain, once more for telling me spoilers. I sincerely appreciate with information. Just pointing out, I did not know they were to date. hence title off this thread. As for the sex part, more focused on the romance itself. In theory its completely irrelevant what we do in the game unless key choices. We do them anyways

          You assume Vain. People want believe sex is major big point. You would be massively wrong. I know there's many different emotions. I'm not blind to it. Yet to debate not showing sexual features because..some guys might brag..is in a word, distasteful. Who would worry about a few people who would brag about that.

          It's a video game.

          I didn't mean that sex, is the success of a player. Romance comes from building trust, a history of strong emotions towards the other. Burning with a deep flame hotter then the sun. You would move mountains for that person. Their is no stronger emotion then that. Yet this debate about sex equaling success.

          Are we simply going to rule sex or even romance because some players. (not me) may it as the major success, while that is their point of view. They certainly have a right to use. You cannot label all gamers that off opinion of a single person. Dragon Age, had sex. Romance. I kept playing even after that.

          Same with Witcher 2. These are deep meaningful games with different choices. Yet the fans demand for more skin showed support for witcher 3. Its a game, we can handle blood, we can handle clevage. I don't need it. Wondering why thats not already an aspect of thse options. Plus, they wouldn't hurt their sales, if anything it would help them.

          there's virtually no debate. You could have that would reason romance lacking from the game. In almost every story, the guy kills bad guy and gets the girl. If the dev's find it difficult do a storyline with a girl. (interset joke here) they should focus on someone close, we like being ripped away. The amount pain from a heart broken. Is strongest emotion I've ever seen.

          Perhaps, I should submit suggestions if the creative genius find them to be lacking ideas.

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            Vainamoinen Moderator

            I want thank Vain, once more for telling me spoilers.

            I have never read a single issue of the comics and don't know anything about how the game will progress. I can't spoil anything here.

            In almost every story, the guy kills bad guy and gets the girl. If the dev's find it difficult do a storyline with a girl. (interset joke here) they should focus on someone close, we like being ripped away. The amount pain from a heart broken. Is strongest emotion I've ever seen.

            It's a story that has been used in video games far far far too often these last thirty years and we have to move away from it, at least if we want to do something new. I'd link you directly to the last three videos of Anita Sarkeesian, but Darth Marsden would probably die on the spot if I did this.

            • I want thank Vain, once more for telling me spoilers.

              Nobody here gave any spoilers. At best, I hinted that SOMETHING happens in the comics - "when the game makes a VERY clear point that he's sweet on Snow (and given what happens in the comics)?" - but beyond that, this thread has been spoiler free. If you found out that information, it was in a different thread.

              As for what you're saying... I'm having a hard time understanding it due to your grasp of English (no offence meant!), but I gather you want a good romantic relationship in this game. Fine - maybe we will in later episodes. But I'd also like to ask you to point out a good time for that to have happened in this one, because with events as they are, I really don't think there was a good time for one.

              We meet 4 female characters in this game. Faith, who ends up... well, y;know. Snow, who... well, you know that as well. Beauty, who's not only married to Beast but appears for about a minute, and the barmaid, who... well. No romance there.

              It's possible something might happen with Beauty - given you can chose to tell Beast where she is or not - but that remains to be seen. This is only one episode out of five though, and there could well be a romantic angle you can take later on with a different character. Who knows?

              Like I said earlier, there's plenty of opportunities for romantic storylines in games. But the direction Telltale has chosen to take THIS game, and THIS story, means that I don't think there's going to be a strong focus on romance. And I don't see a single problem with that.

              I'd link you directly to the last three videos of Anita Sarkeesian, but Darth Marsden would probably die on the spot if I did this.

              Eh... mild heart attack at best.

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                fusedmass BANNED

                While I respect your opinion. It doesn't quite match with the facts. Maybe you mods have bro system to support each other in case a person calls you into question. I'll show you exactly where it was revealed. Saying no one revealed it, doesn't shockingly enough reverse time or wipe out logic.

                As for my concept of English. Well, like you said in other page. "All new forum users are stupid"..then said they are all noobs. I'm sorry if you cannot in-pert my brand of English. While no offense was meant. I find it very offensive and equal to a person with a lighter dangerously flicking it, wondering if it will set homes a blaze.

                Perhaps since im so dumb as you said before. I should re-learn English. Then will I have worthy enough to meet your superior intelligence.

                • Please do show me where he spoiled the comics for you. It wasn't in this thread though, I can assure you, and that's all I was supporting. There is no "bro system" at work here - I was simply confirming what he said. If you can prove me wrong, then I will retract that.

                  Also - If I have trouble understanding what you're saying, then I feel I should be able to say that without being accused of insulting you, because it's true. I had trouble understanding what you were saying, and I felt that being honest about it was the best thing I could do, because that way if I misinterpret your post and respond in the wrong way, then I have explained why I did so.

                  Please don't take my comments from a completely different thread and apply them to everything I say and do. I honestly thought we'd moved past that unfortunate incident, and I would greatly appreciate if we could leave what was, I freely admit, a VERY poor choice of words on my part in the past. If you DO want to discuss it further, please start a private conversation with me and we can talk about it there, not in this thread.

                  But to respond to the accusations you're levelling at me - I don't think you're stupid and I don't think what you're saying is stupid. I might have a little trouble understanding what you're saying, but that doesn't mean I think you're dumb. You've proven time and again that this is simply not true.

                  We may have disagreements, and that's fine - it's the foundation of a healthy debate, after all - but I am in no way trying to insult you. I would never do that.

                  Now, if it's OK with you, I'd like to try and drag this thread back on topic?

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                    fusedmass BANNED

                    One last thing. I recall you said. And I quote. "I regret nothing I said" poor choice of words, but not lacking in total honesty. If you make a comment "all new users are dumb"...then change it after Kevin was offended. "To Noobs" and you don't regret the words.

                    I'm simply mentioning, why we're having a disconnect. Its difficult as a new user, for a mod to think so insulting low of other people, they're supposed welcome.

                    Maybe I flew off handle, because I remembered what you wrote and since, if we are dumb. He must be smart. Though I'll drop it. Wouldn't want reveal the truth to people. The illusion might fade away if we do.

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                      Vainamoinen Moderator

                      Jesus, what has this discussion become? Listen, if you hate that moderators (who are not much else than regular community members) reply to your topics, I'm sure we can arrange that they don't.

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                        fusedmass BANNED

                        I don't hate mods at all. Simply pointing out why he may have trouble understanding me. Not against entire mod team. It's a single person. I will let it drop. He's one who said "all new fourm users are stupid" he fired that gun. Not me. If you want me stop bringing these type things up.

                        Don't have them exist to start.

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                        fusedmass BANNED

                        I made a single statement, something he said. This the BRO CONNECTION, a threat shut it down iff the off topic makes them look bad. You don't have freak out over that one off topic. I mean seriously.

                        He's one called people stupid with and quote no regrets.

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              fusedmass BANNED

              I'm not saying they need to copy and paste a generic storyline. I'm saying its possible to have it in more of their games while having main storyline going and them linking with each other to deliver a better emotional roller coaster experience.

              Is it possible to have it in more of their games. Without watering down the story. I believe so. In fact Morrgian was such a high vaule demand companion/romance, fans picked her to come back in their third series. This is after they did a DLC, focused entirely around her.

              I just think its possible, not every game. But in some of them might be fun. That's just me however.

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    Vainamoinen Moderator

    There are two ways to approach romantic relationships in a game.

    The first approach is to have a narrative where the protagonist or main character is already in a relationship with another character or gets the chance to draw nearer to exactly one other character as the game progresses.

    The Wolf among Us pretty much had that in episode 1. The story arc that is to be expected now is exactly that of romance in books or movies, a narration of separation, despair and a lover's craving and eventually fulfillment/reunification at a later point in the story. See it like that or don't, but from a literary standpoint, that's a romance story plain and simple. Whether they have sex at the end or even end up in a relationship is completely irrelevant (and indeed the term 'romance' in its proper sense would actually rule out the sex).

    The second approach to romantic relationships in a game is to have the player choose among several possible partners in a game.

    As necessarily every one of those options potentially has to deliver the feeling of 'success' for the player, and as the easiest and most prevailing suggestion of 'success' here is to show sex as the final 'achievement' of relationships, what game designers such as the Mass Effect writers usually end up with in their games is a detestable objectification of their NPCs, both female and male. A direction I don't see Telltale heading into any time soon.

    • Dude... quit making my brain hurt...

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        Vainamoinen Moderator

        It's painful, but it's a good pain.

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          fusedmass BANNED

          I disagree on your formula Vain. I believe they are many good places that exist to have a romance then it twist, entire thing goes sour, you don't see her again, or maybe you do once. It is possible to do this. We're not building a giant rocket. We're making romance an option with one person, no matter how short or long.

          People find success in different things. That isn't one for me.I don't see the problem with players viewing sex as final reward. Opinion are subjective. The people who are focused. Know what the success is, and its good picks during the game for the best possible outcome. Witcher 2, Bioware does it.

          What's the big deal.

  • We don't NEED romance/sex in a game, but you made a good point: Why is this missing in a mature themed game ?

    There is so much potential behind that mechanic: if you establish an emotional bond to a character, every choice you have to make weighs more heavily and every loss is more memorable and heart-wrenching.

    Telltale has succeeded in writing amazing characters, but they haven't explored the full palette of emotions they can utilize to reach the player yet.

    I'd love to see some romance made by Telltale, because I have the feeling they'd get it done right.

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      fusedmass BANNED

      Thank you. A person who agrees. If I told you tell tale would make choices, back in the sam and max. Yet it did happen. They have to unlock their full potential. Perhaps a tad lack of confidence is the reason for this. Who wouldn't want a short or long term romance. This game is about choices.

    • I think we need to distinguish between "romance" and "sex" here. It's clear that some people have the view that the two are one and the same -- talking leads to kissing leads to sex. This is an unrealistic and cliched way of looking at the subject, and certainly not one that I would bracket in the 'mature' category that TWAU is sitting in.

      Telltale's depiction of 'romantic' relationships in the first episode were excellent. There's something there between Bigby and Snow, albeit unspoken and somewhat awkward. I felt the scene in the taxi was excellent. Similarly the interaction between Bigby and Faith showed another side to Bigby's character: his desire to protect someone he sees as vulnerable. That's the kind of thing that could easily blossom into a full relationship -- albeit a flawed one -- but isn't something that would happen over the course of a single episode.

      The one thing I don't want to see is sex for the sake of sex. I don't want to see it because the developer thinks it's edgy or pushing the boundaries, nor because they think that's how people behave in real life. If there's a place for it in the story, and if it can be done tastefully rather than gratuitously, then I'm all for it. Just don't make me tap Q repeatedly during it, thanks...

      • Just don't make me tap Q repeatedly during it, thanks...

        LOL

  • We don't need them. I don't want developers force down sex and romance on the stories. If they're useful for the story itself, sure. But not if they're just shoved up because they have to be there 'cause people are expecting them.

  • I'm struggling to think of a single videogame that has portrayed a romantic relationship well.

    Bioware are particularly terrible at them - those sections of their games always feel like poorly written Mills & Boon novels, and it never feels like their characters can make the important distinction between friendship and romances. Plus, you know, the ultimate 'ending' of each of their romances tends to just be a really trashy sex scene.

    As for other games...I can think of games that have fun dynamics between love interests (The Sands of Time comes to mind), but in terms of serious portrayals of relationships between reasonably grounded characters? I'm drawing a blank.

    Perhaps Telltale could have changed that with The Wolf Among Us - they're certainly very good at writing character relationships - fbut I personally think that a fully-blown romance subplot (that isn't an attempt by the killer to distract Bigby) would feel rather out of place in an otherwise focussed and well-paced murder mystery.

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      fusedmass BANNED

      Witcher 2, for starters. His love is not in this series, the next. He's in love with her and sleeps other chicks. Tell me I'm mistaken.

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        Vainamoinen Moderator

        Witcher 2, very good game but VERY VERY VERY BAD portrayal of romantic relationships and diversity of female characters, as every woman with even half a tit wants to sleep with Geralt (see: player wish fulfillment, above). Witcher 1 even glorifies the objectification of women by handing out collectible cards per fuck. I personally think this is the worst example that could ever be given for portraying romance in a game. CD Project wants to do it that way as it somehow matches the 'ironic misogyny' of the source material, and I'm certainly first in line to buy the Witcher 3, but if this idea of a 'mature' story continues into their Cyberpunk 2077 game, they can count me out of their customer base.

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          fusedmass BANNED

          Are you secretly a member of tell tale staff disguised as a mod to speak without being noticed. You seen have a strong passion, knowledge of videos games with details on why..etc

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          Profanity BANNED

          Why would it continue into the Cyberpunk game? You said it yourself, they follow the source material, but it sounds like you want them to follow only the parts of the source material that you're personally okay with. No need to be angry at the devs and brand them as very possibly evil, like they've got a taste for that sweet muhhsoginy now.

          This is at the level of being insulted by GTA's portrayal of people. We're not kids, we know what's up, I think more devs should understand that they don't have to be so straightforward with their work so that we don't get our views of the world twisted, because we're so easily influenced.

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            Vainamoinen Moderator

            Never played GTA, so I never criticised GTA. But I did play the Witcher games and of course I'm opinionated strongly.

            Games don't really influence you that much if you believe recent psychological studies. But that doesn't mean I'll let game developers delve into stupid stereotypes out of mere convenience. I enjoy a lot of games in which devs focus on gameplay and pay little heed to their narrative, I have nothing against the occasional 'damsel in distress' story, that's all OK to me. But when developers positively boast that they've got a good story in their game, heck, I haven't got that degree in literature for nothing. That kind of bragging is there to be checked and reviewed thoroughly. A narrative in video games should easily hold up to standards set in books and movies, and more often than not what's advertised as a triple A story isn't even an E minus.

            Don't know about Cyberpunk, there could be good stuff in there, and I'm absolutely looking forward to that game, having played the p&p 2020 variant back in 1993. But 'mature themes', that isn't just sex and violence. From CDP as well as Telltale, I think we can expect and demand a good bit more.

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              Profanity BANNED

              Absence of stupid stereotypes doesn't make anything better and inclusion of them doesn't make anything inherently lazy or bad. Sure, there's always (almost) exceptions to the rule.

              When talking about "mature stories" people really tend to cherry pick problems and ignore everything else shouting look! Look! Look how stupid this part is, the devs really fucked this one up! This is especially difficulty when so many people think that mature stories are representations of their lives, especially their inner lives in which they decide how the world is. If that doesn't match their decision - it's not a mature story, because no mature person like myself would approve of this.

              People really love the whole "There's so much violence in this world, it's so sad, but it's so true. This game/book/show understands that and you have to accept it." and similar examples, mostly because I think we've been desensitized to violence pretty well, it's imbedded in our brains. But when things come to more sensitive matters (at least in our brains) suddenly the unpleasant portrayal becomes stupid. Childish. Unnecessary. That's not how things work! No no, only idiots and scum see it that way! If we think like this, the world will stay a shithole forever!

              Anyway, I can't speak for everyone, but I have my own world views that are not gonna change because a game has one or another form of sexism, racism, marxism or whatever other ism you can think of. I'm not that young to be turned "evil" so easily. I like when writers actually use their creative freedom not giving a shit that someone is gonna gasp deeply and start a petition to put down this scumbag. If that stops, majority of the stories that come out are gonna really blur together and get real boring real soon. Oh wait, isn't that already happening for the most part?

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                Vainamoinen Moderator

                Don't get me wrong here. I don't believe in theories that media forms sexists by showing sexism or racists by showing racism. In some cases, the exact opposite is the case. I have nothing against the portrayal in the diverse media. As a reflection of our present society, they positively MUST portray these things. But neither as an endless stream of taboo breaking bloody shocks nor as a cheap porn substitute. The necessity to be explicit is delivered by the story. If the story does not deliver, neither nudity nor violence makes sense.

        • Geralt's manwhoring ways are art.

      • I...actually kind of agree with you there.

        The Witcher 2 certainly allowed you to play as 'romantic Geralt', chosing to ignore all of the political stuff in favour of seeking out your long-lost love, or protecting your current love interest. Or both, in my case. Hopefully that'll get a bit awkward in The Witcher 3.

        Having said that, I probably preferred The Witcher 1's romance options, which seemed to be less about the sex and more about the companionship/sense of family.

        So...yes, decent (and very rare) example there!

        Another example might be Catherine - although I haven't played very much of that, so I couldn't say whether it does it well!

    • I disagree. True, Bioware is the company that has most often had romance in the games, and the quality has been of should we say, different quality. Some have been really good, like Baldurs Gate 2, while others, like Mass Effect 1 were frankly quite awful.

      What games in general lack when it comes to building romances is time. True, most of these games can last for many hours, but most of the time is spent doing other stuff leaving little time for the romancing, which makes them feel forced. The exceptions I can think of are already mentioned Baldurs Gate 2 and Dragon Age Origins, which handled this stuff incredibly well. When it comes to the sex, well, sex is fun, and is kind of its own reward. I don't see that as a problem really, except when it comes down to the aforementioned forced romancing.

      I think that TWD handled it very well by not having a romance - sure, it was a M game, but I think it showed that a good story can be told without having to resort to this kind of stuff.

      • Yeah, romances in Dragon Age and Mass Effect sagas were really, REALLY tacky and childish. They did a terrible work.

        The witcher is different... it's got no real romances, just normal, casual sex.

        • The witcher 1 & 2 were definitely in a different division than any Bioware game in that the sex became kind of a goal in itself since the chase was kind of a minigame in the first game at least. In the second Geralt had more of a steady relationship, but still very sexual. Neither example was bad; on the contrary. I thought of it as a kind of fresh breeze after the tacky romancing we've had to endure before.

          I wouldn't say any of Bioware's attempts at romancing was bad except for the ones in ME1 which were quite horrible. The others that we have got to know were not bad, but forced, as in they had to cram in as much 'feeling' so to speak as possible in quite a little time. This in turn boiled down to that there weren't much possibility for romantic interaction that could occur naturally since so much time had to be spent doing other things.

          One very different example comes from Baldurs Gate 2. Here they managed to stuff the romancing plot into the game and keep it going and well-paced up to the end, and for some of the interaction to occur, you would have to be at the right spot at the right time with the right person.

          The really BIG difference between BG2 and other CRPGs like Mass Effect or Dragon Age is however something completely different: The first is a 2D game, the others 3D. That means that a lot more resources must be placed on polished surroundings in 3D, whilst more effort can be placed on story in 2D - And BG2 came out during the 90's where 3D was more of a problem than it is today, which means the developers steered away from that. Meaning they could put more resources into story, interaction and so on.

          That is not to say more resource-demanding games can't have good interactions - or as what we speak of here, romances. Mass Effect 3 quite effectively finalized what had been started in ME2 or even 1 depending on your choices. Sure, Each episode's romancing ended with sex, but at the same time, each game became better and better at everything - the technical bits, voice acting, interaction and so on. Taken one by one, the Mass Effect romances could feel both tacky and forced - unless you pursue only one romantic option throughout the triology.

    • Huh, I actually think Bioware does romance pretty well--especially if you choose some of the more unconventional romance choices--but the part I think they are terrible at is the sex scenes. They're not romantic, sweet, tender, or touching--they're just awkward and giggle-worthy. If you really must include a sex scene in a game, at least try to have it be hot and sexy instead of goofy. But that's my opinion, your mileage may vary. I enjoy the romances in those games, even if they are a touch cliched, I just don't care for the kissing scenes (even with modern graphics, SO awkward looking) and the sex scenes.

      In this game, though, I definitely didn't see any need or place for romance (except for arguably the budding almost-romance between Snow/Bigby, and as a reader of the comics...well, I won't say anymore there, because no matter what I say it could be taken as a spoiler). And there was at least some charisma/sexual interest/etc. between Bigby and Faith, which was nice and contributed to the Noir feel, but I don't see any reason that it needed to go any further than that.

  • Bigby likes Snow White, obviously. I don't know how the comics start. Is Snow already in a relationship with Wolf or not? If she is, Telltale has the option to show us the start of their romance. But other ways they have their hand tied, since this is not like TWDG, where they created their own characters. In TWAU they have to reach a certain point, with certain relationships.

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      fusedmass BANNED

      Someone mentioned how it started that they were dating and ripped apart before this release. They didn't see that as a spoiler. Even though tells me whats pretty much to expect, hence spoil the surprise.

  • So here is what I'm thinking a romance option for season two of TWD will be like

    http://youtu.be/ZPNqub966Tw

  • Let me think, is there any game that did romance the right way? Nothing comes to mind off that bat but is there any?

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      Profanity BANNED

      If I had to pick one, I'd probably pick Silent Hill 2.

      • God it has been way to long since I play SH 2, I forgot how that even worked.

        • I think Mass Effect and Dragon Age handled it just fine. You had many option and you had the option to not have a relationship.

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