Would you want next-gen graphics?

[DeLuca]

Scenario: TMI performs beyond expectations. LucasArts sees the success and wants in, but knows that TellTale handles the series better than they could, considering the personelle involved with TMI. As such, they contract TellTale to make the game, but give it a LucasArts sized budget, allowing them to use truly cinematic next gen graphics if they wanted, entice Earl Boen back to the series with a fat paycheck, etc. etc.

Question: Would you want to see realistic looking graphics on an MI game or do you like the cartoony direction is has taken since EMI (CMI was cartoony but also very atmospheric IMO).

Opinions wanted

[Ahoy De Fancypants]

Note, the following is a trifle bias on my part.

TOMI was the first Monkey Island I played, but, I had watched my older brother play through MI1-4 when I was younger [just before I became a gamer with my MD and SNES, Magic Pocket on the Amiga withstanding]. I then played and beat SOMI: SE on my 360 in-between episode 1 and the latest.

So, in my personal opinion I like the cartoony look. Not every game needs to look super realistic... [if they did, then half wouldn't be as fun as they are, and it's something that's a trifle annoying in this present age of spoiled gamers], and I think Monkey Island is exactly one that benefits without it [and Sam & Max, something else I've tried out recently due to the free promotional code I got from TTGs, upon submitting some photoshopped edited MI-related art recently]. :)

[Pretender]

imo it looks good as it is, but what I would improve is:

Higher res textures, more detailed and different characters, a lot better sound quality..

I wouldn't like it to be realistic looking. The 3d is working fine too, but just sometimes rough around the edges.

[dzamir]

Scenario: TMI performs beyond expectations. LucasArts sees the success and wants in, but knows that TellTale handles the series better than they could, considering the personelle involved with TMI. As such, they contract TellTale to make the game, but give it a LucasArts sized budget, allowing them to use truly cinematic next gen graphics if they wanted, entice Earl Boen back to the series with a fat paycheck, etc. etc.

Question: Would you want to see realistic looking graphics on an MI game or do you like the cartoony direction is has taken since EMI (CMI was cartoony but also very atmospheric IMO).

Opinions wanted

I really like the style and the graphics, but I dislike some really low resolution textures and some graphics glitches (eg the skybox with a vertical line).

[Guinea]

What do "next gen graphics" have to do with realism?
You can stick to a cartoony style while still using next gen graphics.

And in that case, yes, it wouldn't hurt if TMI was using better graphics.
The team however is small and limited in budget, and for that I rather have them focus on the overall experience and not on making the graphics quality top-notch.


Your question is though, apparently, if we want a more realistic look (like MI1) or a more cartoony look (like MI3) and in the question of style, I think that Telltale nailed it perfectly.
If the game looked more realistic (like MI1, at least) it would feel different aswell (hopefully), so it depends on the game. And for the game that is TMI, the style is dead on IMO.

[brian.shapiro]

Question: Would you want to see realistic looking graphics on an MI game or do you like the cartoony direction is has taken since EMI (CMI was cartoony but also very atmospheric IMO).


When people say 'cartoony' there's always a negative connotation. Cartoon like graphics are sometimes more appropriate. I also liked the more cartoon graphics in the Zelda games (Windwaker) than the more realistic graphics, since they're more appropriate for the feel of Zelda games.

[brian.shapiro]

Your question is though, apparently, if we want a more realistic look (like MI1) or a more cartoony look (like MI3) and in the question of style, I think that Telltale nailed it perfectly.
If the game looked more realistic (like MI1, at least) it would feel different aswell (hopefully), so it depends on the game. And for the game that is TMI, the style is dead on IMO.

The reason they got away with a realistic look in MI1 was the pixelated graphics. I don't think the game would work well with true realism

[Guinea]

since they're more appropriate for the feel of Zelda games.

I'd say that WW's graphics were appropriate for the feel of Wind Waker, not Zelda games in general, because I could not really imagine Twilight Princess, Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask with the same graphics as Wind Waker, just like I couldn't see Wind Waker with TP graphics.

[Guinea]

The reason they got away with a realistic look in MI1 was the pixelated graphics. I don't think the game would work well with true realism

I don't think that's so obvious.
Sure, if you took a game like Curse of MI and replaced all graphics with photorealistic graphics it wouldn't fit.

In a game like SMI, it could work though. Not saying they need (or can even afford) to be photorealistic, but you know, a bit more realistic. It could still have cartoon shading and outlines, but better lighting, texture-work and more realistic proportions. A kind of compromise between photo-realism and cartoony.

[brian.shapiro]

I'd say that WW's graphics were appropriate for the feel of Wind Waker, not Zelda games in general, because I could not really imagine Twilight Princess, Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask with the same graphics as Wind Waker, just like I couldn't see Wind Waker with TP graphics.

Yea, I never liked the realistic Zelda games to begin with. If I wanted a realistic RPG I'd play a different kind of game, like Ultima

[Ahoy De Fancypants]

What do "next gen graphics" have to do with realism?
You can stick to a cartoony style while still using next gen graphics.

Obviously you can do the later, but ask the typical gamer and 'next gen graphics' always equals 'super realism', a fan-rabid standard of most games today that I frankly don't get.

[Fealiks]

I think that realism and good graphics are two seperate things. Graphics can always be improved upon, but making them more realistic isn't always a step forward.

[Lord-z]

I don't give a dang about good graphics. I only care about how good the game is. They could have gived Tales the same graphics as Monkey Island 1 and I would still have played and loved it. And frankly, anyone who suggests that a game is bad because of the graphics doesn't deserve the priviledge of playing.

And, honestly, Monkey Island deserves nothing less than a good ol' fashioned cartoony look. It wouldn't be right any other way.

[guitarsareboring]

It certainly wouldn't hurt the game to have next-gen graphics but I definitely wouldn't want photo-realism. I wouldn't say no to some wonderfully designed grim, dark towns like in MI1 for a future Tale (if there are more Tales to come).

Ultimately the humour and storyline are the most important factors in Telltale games and I wouldn't want them even considering jeopardising the quality of those to concentrate on graphics.

[brian.shapiro]

What bothers me the most about the graphics style is that Elaine was originally, to my mind, supposed to be this really attractive woman, and they aren't making her seem attractive at all.

[Ash735]

I like the graphics as they are, only needs a few touch ups like better textures, more models, etc, perhaps some better effects too but this look Tales has actually is good for 3D Monkey Island Games.

[Rather Dashing]

I think the game looks nice now. Graphics really don't matter, and obviously should be scaled according to the budget of the project, the size of the team, and the amount of time they have. It varies, but I think they did very nicely with Tales. Could it look nicer? I'm sure it could, but that's neither here nor there. Stylistically they have it done very nicely I think, especially considering their tools and limitations.

I suppose a lot of you don't trade in indie games, do you?

[NunoCardoso]

No way!

Not everyone has a top PC to play it. We are not talking here about a FPS! Note that most laptops within 2 years have shitty display cards...

[BobTGoldfish]

(CMI was cartoony but also very atmospheric IMO).

Opinions wanted

Are you implying that ToMI is NOT atmospheric? I mean the prologue to episode one where the boats are smashing together and the wind is howling is one of hte most atmospheric moments in MI history.

honestly, I think ToMI is by far the best balance of all out cartoony (in some of the charachter and locale design) and Realism (in movements, nuances and others) that we should hope for in a MI game.

[der_ketzer]

No way!

Not everyone has a top PC to play it. We are not talking here about a FPS! Note that most laptops within 2 years have shitty display cards...

that's all I have to say.

[fwed1]

Next gen cartoon graphics aslong as it didn't hinder the gameplay :D

[Ezny]

Eww gross no. Spinner Cay is beautiful. MI3 looks fantastic. No need for a realistic look in my opinion, ever for that matter.

[pleeyer wan]

I think that the visuals represents the game's feeling.... cheery with a bit of adult humor.
But wasn't it possible to make some of the backgrounds a little more detailed?
The sky with the very clear vertical line is just a little too off for me.
It just kills the experience off being IN the game a bit.

Nevertheless... A KICKASS funny game! lokkin' forward to the rest of 'em!

[Lockmort]

It would be awesome to have cell-shaded graphics like in the new prince of persia game.
That way to could go back to the cartoon style of Cure (my favorite)

[Kolgax]

No thanks on the cell-shading. That was about the end of me playing Zelda games when Windwaker came out... Not that all cell shading is bad...but I didn't like it there...

I think the way Telltale is doing it is fine. Remember they have to put these epis on the Wii too...

You can bump up the resolution though if you have a nice monitor...I think I was able to run Sam n Max at 1900 x 1600 or something...

[Armakuni]

I'd like higher poly count and much higher resolution textures. Should still be cartoony, of course... just better looking cartoony :)

[Gary90]

Graphics wise, I'm more in favour of atmosphere and playability than 3million+ pixels of fine detail, be it real life or cartoon.

Firstly for playability you can't beat 2D fixed camera style of the good old days! That said on the fixed camera point of view (pun intended) Telltale did a fairly good job. It would be nice to point and click to 'walk to', although this maybe slightly tricky when the ground is not visible in a 3D environment.

Atmosphere, this is where it lost me. MI1 and MI2, had got this right (IMO), the place in which it is set is dirty and someone dark around the edges, with the characters and music bringing it to life. I'm not after a Doom3 style look, where you need to turn all the lights out just to make out the scene, but the nice (almost monochromatic) blues used for outside, with orange light spilling out onto the streets. The graphics for my liking are too clean. The poxed pirate should be a slightly scary thing to look at not something from the Day Of The Tentacle, LeChuck at the beginning should spit as he talks, etc.

--very small SPOILER below if you haven't played chapter 1 to the point you end up on the first island--
The next thing is the set design, Flotsam, looking at the place, it has under 10 buildings (or near enough) in the port area and no other town/village. These include a Doctors, a court house, a jail, a club, a glass blower and a printing press. Firstly given what the Island is all about I would assume the populate would be a lot larger/visible and have more dwellings. There is talk about a rival newspaper with the impression of it being larger, where is it? You could argue the same about Scabb Island in MI2 (Island with Largo), but that is more of a shanty town in which they can leave and it's more close nit, giving the impression that you are in the middle of it.(also from memory there is 10 people there).

I also don't like the opening scene graphics wise:
1) it's in a storm, nobody/nothing looks wet!
2) it's in a storm, you can see the horizon!
3) it's in a storm, you can see stars above!
4) The horizon is very clear, even if it wasn't in a storm it should at least be hazy!
5) Close up of Elaine you can see the vertices on her eye lid, cartoony or not this should be a lot closer to a nice smooth curve.

Good things:
The use of in and out of focus is very good (apart from on the horizon),
On Jerkbait the lighting when Guybrush is coming out of the rock on the 'ground floor' after visiting bait and repair.

I like the graphics on MI1 special addition; they look spot on (I haven't played this yet though)!

So to some up I would of preferred/would like to see in the future a cross between Discworld Noir and MI2, with well finished off graphics rather than highly detailed ones.

[ChromeShark]

I was more than happy enough with the graphics when I played Chapter 1, it was a big step up from Escape, and I was never in the crowd that had been hoping for a return to 2D, so it was as good as I could've hoped for.

But then I played the remake of Secret, which looked absolutely stunning, and Chapter 2 somehow didn't seem to do as much for me. That's coupled with a few other things, such as the general setting not feeling as true to classic Monkey Island style, and parts feeling a bit too similar to Chapter 1 (the jungle for instance).

But perhaps the main problem is that the novelty of new Monkey Island had worn away. I'm not expecting a major improvement in the next 3 chapters, but when Monkey Island returns after that, I think it will take next-gen graphics to get me as excited again.

[petethepanda]

Why does "next-gen" have to mean realistic?

I'd love to see the cartoony graphics stay but become much more detailed, thoroughly animated and hardware-reliant.

[der_ketzer]

Why does "next-gen" have to mean realistic?
Right and what does next gen mean? I live now. Not next gen. Oh and what will come after next gen? Next next gen?

[TofuHead]

Cel shaded, with the same color palette as CMI. More detailed Wind Waker graphics would be a dream come true.

Otherwise, I really would prefer hand drawn animations. There are enough 3-d adventure games.

[StarEye]

If by cartoony, you mean characters with very few details on them (I hate Guybrush's pants in Tales, for example), then yes - I'd like a more realistic look. I see more details in MI2 Guybrush than in any of the other games. Be it mind-tricks or actual truth, it looks more detailed.

I'd love a game with water-color graphics, much like MI2. CMI's background was much more inline with the old games, but the characters stood out and it didn't work as well as in the originals, imo. CMI is a fantastic game, but I didn't like the art direction of the characters from CMI onwards.

Also, don't anyone miss the fantastic animations when you picked up certain items in MI1-3? Like when you pick up the cotton swab/monkey head key in MI1, or the dog in MI2, or the long thingy (can't remember the name) in the beginning in CMI? I also miss the little things like the animations when you pick up LeChuck's trousers, or when you lose or whin the drinking contest, flick the bone from the skeleton in prison, get into the Bloody Lip kitchen for the first time, etc. Stuff like that really adds to a game a lot more than you'd think, and these are stuff that have more or less vanished when adventure games went the 3D route.

2D Animation is so much better than 3D animation still.

[Woodsyblue]

Realistic graphics would be way too off-putting in a Monkey Island game. Die hard adventure gamers haven't traditionally been the sort of people that have high-end, top-of-the-line preforming computers. A Monkey Island game that requires state of the art graphical capabilities would alienate a large percentage of the consumer base.

Hell, Adventure games almost died after they tried to convert over to modest 3D. I think TellTale have taken exactly the right approach. I would love to see them do more collaborations with LucasArts, though. There are plenty of old IPs that are in serious need of a resurrection!

[Randulf]

I'd rather see TT optimise their engine for older, less powerful graphics cards; given the graphics level, their games seem to me surprisingly resource-intensive.

[der_ketzer]

given the graphics level, their games seem to me surprisingly resource-intensive.

really? I've seen worse. Just take a look at SoMI Special Edition. Now That's resource hungry. And it doesn't look like it should be.

[dzamir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUMTsC7-M0c&hd=1
Next gen graphics + cartoon style :-) Also note the facial expressions.

[der_ketzer]

The expressions are hand animated / Not in the game.
And I guess the movie took quite some time.
And the engine is so flexible that the game runs on a 6 year old PC. But Nobody with a PS3 or 360 would call this next gen graphics.

[dzamir]

The expressions are hand animated / Not in the game.
And I guess the movie took quite some time.
And the engine is so flexible that the game runs on a 6 year old PC. But Nobody with a PS3 or 360 would call this next gen graphics.
Some in-game screenshots:
http://phil.lchost.co.uk/tf2/parva%20is%20looking%20good!.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/8756/demotauntiq1.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4497/sleepingengiac7.jpg
Yes, it's not next-gen, but the real-time morphed in game facial animation are really good :-)
Anyway, I loved the TOMI graphics, but like I said I just disliked some low res textures and some graphic glitches.

[Kenif]

I just want the thing to run on my PC.

I have a month old PC and it JUST runs TOMI.
Anything more and i'm screwed :)

[manicm]

The graphics are fine, it's the control scheme they need to fix, why not employ S&M's scheme??

[manicm]

I think the graphics are on the right side of enjoyable - and this allows older rigs to play the game so I think Telltale have hit the right spot - and anyway I won't be able to download a 1Gb file - I'd otherwise have to buy a packaged game (in my country internet bandwidth is at a premium).

[Megaace]

The graphics are okay (but I would like to see more detailed textures). The problem is the size limitations: I would like to see cities with more than 2 or 3 inhabitants, and shops and houses where you can enter, and islands bigger than a spit... Island are really small on chapter two...

[der_ketzer]

Some in-game screenshots:

Don't need them. I played this game for about 300 hours myself. In direct X 8-Mode of course because my GPU is not able tu run it in Dx9.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/natural/8d6cbebdc15041e098a348372dc649f8b8edc5ea.png
8-Bit is enough. Even for TF2.

[youmaycallmemurray]

Uh explain what you mean with next gen graphics. Whenever someone talks about nextgen graphics its to hype some brainless fps. I think it's clear you sacrifice detail when you go from 2D to 3D and that's where I would like it to improve. Def more detailed enviroments, characters and backgrounds

[Pirateguybrush]

I think it's clear you sacrifice detail when you go from 2D to 3D

Not always. But sometimes, yes. In TOMI's case, yes.

[tmfm2000]

What bothers me the most about the graphics style is that Elaine was originally, to my mind, supposed to be this really attractive woman, and they aren't making her seem attractive at all.

wtf?

[StarEye]

She's cute, but not really really attractive or "hawt" as some people say. In CMI, she was even worse - she was plain out ugly there, imo. A slight exaggeration, but not by far. She reminded me of the ugly Jessica Rabbit look-alike in Who Framed Roger Rabbit. You know - the one who turns around and screams "A MAAAAAAANNN!" in a scene in Toon Town.