A discussion of software piracy

[IronCladChicken]

I was just reading the The Inquirer that the release version of Vista is apparently already available to download illegally - I was just checking this out (to save me from doing any actual work - I've an MSDN account so I was just being curious - so ner :p )

At the same time, I noticed Culture Shock was also listed on a couple of sites (the download included the game with crack) and had apparently been available at least since last Wednesday.

I'd guess the copy protection is there to dissuade the more casual users piracy attempts - But then again I guess P2P software is used by a lot of casual users these days too? :confused:

[Johnny Walker]

I guess there's nothing they can do, there hasn't been a game that's not been pirated. The only thing you can do is to try and persuade people that it's worth the money!

[thebob]

Anyone who pirates this should be ashamed, its hardly expensive, I'm a student and can afford it!

[Guybrush_Threepwood]

Yes, it's a shame how people refuse to buy even a good game for 8 bucks..
I mean, this price's ridiculous, EVERYONE owning a pc can afford it!

[Emily]

The whole situation makes me very sad. :(

[0renji]

Not cool. Very very uncool. I admit to having a sort of criminal code of honour regarding this - I won't go into details but pirating from a small-ish and amazing company like Telltale or Double Fine is really terrible. Especially since Episode 1 is so cheap! Who are these pathetic individuals who can't afford £6?

[antom]

I'd be tempted to get S&M from a P2P site as I'm completely broke as we speak and NEED a Sam 'n' Max hit but I think that waiting for my first paycheck will be far more rewarding. Plus, I'll hopefully get a nice shiney CD in a lovely box to grin at in the new year... ;)

Plus, the demo showed the sheer quality of the product and it'll be worth every penny :D

[elsenator]

Obviously, i think it's pathetic and discouraging if people would want to pirate Culture Shock, or any of the coming episodes for that matter. But i don't think TellTale are loosing that much from it. We tend to equal each illegal download as one lost sale, but i don't believe that is the case. Actually, some of them might actually lead to purchases and word-of-mouth PR which, in turn, will lead to more sales.
I'm not trying to justify downloading Culture Shock illegally, because that is not my mentality. I'm just trying to put things in perspective, and perhaps soften the blow a bit. We all knew it would happen at some point, so i like to find the positive sides of it. :)

Also, Culture Shock is so darn cheap you would be a fool not to buy it and support Telltale.

[numble]

Maybe a well-timed joke about the problems with game piracy in a future episode could make the pirates feel guilty about stealing the game and pay the low-price it costs to support Telltale.

[Erwin]

I blame Monkey Island. That game romanticized pirating!

--Erwin

[thom_h]

I blame Monkey Island. That game romanticized pirating!

--Erwin

Hahaha! :D

[Alucard]

unfortunate but inevitable
I think most gamers do have a conscience though.

[Emily]

Maybe a well-timed joke about the problems with game piracy in a future episode could make the pirates feel guilty about stealing the game and pay the low-price it costs to support Telltale.

I like this idea. :D

[MeaningOfLife]

There's ups and downs about pirating softwares (Note: I am not saying I am for nor against pirating).

For example, to some people that Sam & Max Episode 1 demo seems too short even for a demo. I can say that some people may have played a pirated copy of the episode 1 all the way to the end and they like it so much that they're buying the full season.

At the same time, there's always way poor, poor little kids who doesn't have access to credit card or know anything about the hard working labor of programming, developing, designing a video game, no matter how long the game is, those people who work on the game deserve a share of the profit from the software, but yet, they just don't understand that concept. The only concept they know is INTERNET = EVERYTHING IS FREE.

[jannar85]

Can't you figure out which code has been used on that pirated copy? Then you can ban it and the guy or girl who pirated it?

It's sad though.

And I've seen people up to fifty years old, who downloads pirated material as well.. so there's no excuse that the downloaders are kids.

[Trixie]

I like this idea. :D

Make the episode and make the criminal end some somewhere all people are very scared, like a army camp with a sargent that treats all like they should kill themselfs! that will make a laugh!

[TheGreyMatter]

Make the episode and make the criminal end some somewhere all people are very scared, like a army camp with a sargent that treats all like they should kill themselfs! that will make a laugh!

hhmm.... Weird al's videoclip - Don't Download This Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz-grdpKVqg)... hhmm...

[Sir Lemming]

Well, say goodbye to anymore generous giveaways.

[Alucard]

hmmm?
I don't see how the fact that the game has been pirated has anything to do with the give aways. I would think give aways would encourage those who are too poor to pay the paltry fee per episode to earn their game.

[Hero1]

The people that are downloading illegal copies and not buying the game are having a detrimental effect on the future of Sam & Max. If we want games like Sam & Max to exist we have to support a company like Telltale. It's really quite sad that people would put up a game like this for illegal download. :mad:

[Guybrush_Threepwood]

Maybe Telltale should start considering to make out of games 2 different files: a small sized one for the demo version, and the complete one to be given through a link just to the ones who have already bought the game.
Since everyone on this forum loves and supports Telltale, it'd be very hard that one of us lets the complete game available for P2P and, more generally, file sharing programs.
Doing this, piracy against their games can be at least slowed down, probably not defeated (that's just impossible).
If they don't have the whole game, they can't crack it up.
What do you think?

[Yohmi]

I think that rapidhsare provide free downloads for less than 100MB files. In fact, if you want something, you can have it. As I can have every Bone episode free, I can also have Sam&max free... I can donwload it from the mainsite, but also on P2P or many other locations. If you want something free, you can have it. Lots of people pirating won't buy anything. If they can't obtain it, they forget and donwload something else. I know this with music, sometime I let people hear songs on my iPod "sounds great, could you give it to me ?" "nop, it's under DRM, you must buy it, it's less than 1€" "Nonsense, I'll download it on ——— ". Then, he doesn't find the file... nevermind, he forget. Just 1€ (≈1$). Less than a subway ticket, less than 1/5 of a beer at the pub. Just because it costs something, it's too expansive, that's all... sad, yes it is...

In jokes would be great however :)

[Maratanos]

See, I'd like to emphasize something elsenator said...

We tend to equal each illegal download as one lost sale, but i don't believe that is the case.

This is very true. The book Free Culture, as I recall, lists at least three (maybe four, but I only remember three of them) reasons people illegally "pirate" software. In fact, only one of them is strictly detrimental.

1. People download a piece of software INSTEAD of buying it. This is bad, beacuse it deprives the developer of money.
2. People download a piece of software, but wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have downloaded it. It is neutral, because downloading hasn't deprived the developer of anything, because they wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have gotten it free.
3. People download a piece of software, to try it out. They like it, and then buy it. This is good, because they wouldn't have bought it unless they knew they'd like it, which they determined via downloading it.

However, it must be emphasized that ALL THREE are illegal. No ifs, ands, or buts. All three are always illegal.

[elsenator]

See, I'd like to emphasize something elsenator said...



This is very true. The book Free Culture, as I recall, lists at least three (maybe four, but I only remember three of them) reasons people illegally "pirate" software. In fact, only one of them is strictly detrimental.

1. People download a piece of software INSTEAD of buying it. This is bad, beacuse it deprives the developer of money.
2. People download a piece of software, but wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have downloaded it. It is neutral, because downloading hasn't deprived the developer of anything, because they wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have gotten it free.
3. People download a piece of software, to try it out. They like it, and then buy it. This is good, because they wouldn't have bought it unless they knew they'd like it, which they determined via downloading it.

However, it must be emphasized that ALL THREE are illegal. No ifs, ands, or buts. All three are always illegal.

This is exactly what i mean. :) And it is very true!

[Emily]

It's true that not every person who pirates the game would necessarily have bought it (even for the paltry price of $8.95). That said, in tracking down pirated copies, I have seen posts from people along the lines of "Thanks for the crack! I've been waiting 13 years for this!" That's what makes me sad... the fact that some people pirating the game have been looking forward to a Sam & Max sequel for all this time, yet supporting the developers doesn't even cross their minds.

We have a wonderful extended community, and the number of people who have bought the game far outweigh cases like this, so it's not exactly something that keeps me up at night. But it is a disappointing attitude.

This is nothing new. I remember Al Lowe saying that Sierra sold far more Leisure Suit Larry hint books than Leisure Suit Larry games. (Hell, my own introduction to adventure gaming was through a bootlegged copy of LSL that my dad brought home from work. :D) Some people will learn about Telltale and may even become paying customers *because* of the piracy, backwards as that sounds.

[elsenator]

It's true that not every person who pirates the game would necessarily have bought it (even for the paltry price of $8.95). That said, in tracking down pirated copies, I have seen posts from people along the lines of "Thanks for the crack! I've been waiting 13 years for this!" That's what makes me sad... the fact that some people pirating the game have been looking forward to a Sam & Max sequel for all this time, yet supporting the developers doesn't even cross their minds.

Yes, and this is indeed the sad truth of group number 1. The fact that they don't even consider buying it, and instead see piracy as the main way of obtaining it puzzles me quite a bit. It also goes to show that copy protection fails miserably.
For a copy protection to work, it would have to be something low level as the StarForce protection which, quite frankly, is so annoying that, to some degree, consumers would prefer a cracked version(which is possible, although harder). That's bad - very bad... :confused:

I hope future games will grasp the beauty of online distribution and keep copy protection at a minimum, thus keeping the average consumer from copying it to everyone else. The way it is with Sam & Max is perfect, and to me, another reason to buy the game. If it's as easy as grabbing the visa in your wallet, a lot more will be buying it. At least that is my belief.

Of course, reality is soooo much more complicated. :rolleyes:

[Udvarnoky]

Maybe Telltale should start considering to make out of games 2 different files: a small sized one for the demo version, and the complete one to be given through a link just to the ones who have already bought the game.
Since everyone on this forum loves and supports Telltale, it'd be very hard that one of us lets the complete game available for P2P and, more generally, file sharing programs.
Doing this, piracy against their games can be at least slowed down, probably not defeated (that's just impossible).
If they don't have the whole game, they can't crack it up.
What do you think?

I don't see the improvement of that method. Once that file gets leaked (and no, it would not be hard) you're in the same boat you are with the current method, except pirates have to go through no trouble instead of a little trouble.

[Pide]

I bought Sam&Max at this page. At my first visit Paypal did not work so i thought i would not be able to purchase it. Just checked again today and paypal was enabled :). The game is great and as soon as i have money i will buy the whole season (upgrade version when avalaible). I cannot say that i never pirated a game, but i always buy them if i like them. Because S&M was only 8€ and i liked the demo i got it.

I have to say that i prefer buying games from companies/developers like Telltale, which care for their community and are reading the forums to improve the next episodes or just talk about senseless things :D . *cough*EA*cough*:rolleyes:

[VastGirth]

ok i will be honest, i reguarly pirate software. However i always buy games which i think are worth it, such as gothic 3, oblivion, and of course sam and max! Afterall ive been waiting for years for this game of course im going to buy it. (or in this case, pre-order the entire series) You have to support the developers if you want to see more games!

Anyway the point of this post is that the game wasn't actually successfully cracked until the 10th of November, 9 days after the official release and many days after the gametap one. This is VERY late for a cracked release and i imagine will have helped sales of the game a lot.

Why this was, i don't know. maybe the copy protection is good, or perhaps sam and max holds such a special place in the hearts of gamers that the faster crackers didn't crack it...

Anyway i hope it sells loads and leaves a very bitter taste in lucasarts' mouth!

[Jokieman]

The really sad part is that because of the greed of the music industry, the pirating of software/music etc, has become more mainstream than ever before.

In fact I was reading in some audiophile forums I visit regularly that a whole host of people who would never have considered it before have vowed to only purchase used music cd's and or download mp3's illegally from now on because of how Microsoft caved in and signed a deal with Universal Music to pay them $1.00 for every Zune sold. Of course it could have had something to do with the fact that the CEO of Universal Music called everyone who owns a Digital Audio Player a thief who uses their players for the storage of illegally obtained music. heh.

It's sort of sad really. There are a lot of young people out there today that truly don't believe file sharing is illegal at all. heh. That's how bad it's gotten.

Note to Vastgirth: The reason why it took so long for S&M to be cracked is because adventure games aren't that popular, even among software pirates.

Note to Guybrush: There is nothing that a company like Telltale games can do to stop piracy. Microsoft has spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing anti-piracy techniques over the last decade and still hasn't been able to stop it. (Though I think it's crazy stupid for anyone to use a pirated copy of an OS, I guess there's some really crazy stupid people out there). The only thing that can be done to stop it is to account for it in the basic business model.

Though I tend to think that when you are selling boxed copies of games especially, including special stuff like concept art, or something like the little "manny" you got with Grim Fandango will help to limit it as well.

[taumel]

Most of the game goodies you find in the game packages (if there are some at all) are crap and you hope they would have saved the ressources for more meaningful stuff in the world but things like the codewheel in Monkey Island or the Newspaper in ZakMcKracken were great! Digital distribution also has it's pros but i sometimes miss such love to such details and it made some people buying an original who otherwise wouldn't have done it.


Regards,

taumel

[kendals]

Some people will learn about Telltale and may even become paying customers *because* of the piracy, backwards as that sounds.

I spose that worked for Microsoft. Shame there's a cracked version. I'm very disappointed with these people- it's $9 people! Isn't that what a movie costs these days? And you get about double the movie length, and at least it's not mind-numbing!

[Maize]

The people that are downloading illegal copies and not buying the game are having a detrimental effect on the future of Sam & Max. If we want games like Sam & Max to exist we have to support a company like Telltale.

I'm not sure that I think that the morality of pirating software is necessarily tied to the size of the company or the nature of the software in an absolute sense, but I agree that people who love adventure gaming should go the extra mile to support the companies who are still making the games. If the bigger companies saw that adventure games could really sell, there'd be a lot more of them out there.

Personally, I bought Bone 1 & 2 even though I have very little interest in the franchise just to support the company I knew was going to be putting out the Sam & Max games. (And obviously I subscribed to the Sam & Max season.)

The seasonal subscription rate is ridiculously inexpensive. I mean, you wind up paying something around six bucks per game. There are drinks at Starbucks that cost that much, and an episode of Sam & Max last a lot longer than a green tea latte with whipped cream.

(Mmmm.... green tea latte with whipped cream...)

[Emily]

an episode of Sam & Max last a lot longer than a green tea latte with whipped cream.

Heh. I want to use this quote in our marketing materials.

[RMJ1984]

Im pretty sure most people are buying sam & max because of the cheap price, but then again most people who pirate wouldn buy it anyways even if there wasnt a pirat version..

Most games released lately are so bad its a waste of time even to download them free, because they are so crappy. Also most companies dont release demo's after the fullversion or never at all. And that will only promote piratcy. Because i would openly admit i download most games than dont have a demo pirated to try em out. I dont wanna waste money on shitty games :P

Also no copy protection or warning, fines or messages will make anyone feel bad, guilty or anything. Its a waste of time and money for the company. Rather lower the price on the game and increase the quality :)

Personally i always support good games :) And Sax & max is one of them ( but i still dont like episodic games )

[IronCladChicken]

Rather lower the price on the game and increase the quality :)

How would you do that? - It would take more time to raise the quality, which would cost TellTale more money, which they would need to get back if they wanted to remain in business (& make more games), so the cost of the individual title would need to go up?

I'm guessing you’re still in School right?

[Maize]

Heh. I want to use this quote in our marketing materials.

Feel free! :) (Of course, even better if you fix my typo in it. ;) )

[Maize]

From an environmental perspective, I love the idea of downloadable games. Even for store-bought games, I think that less is more: I wish more PC/Mac games were available in just a jewel case with the instruction book as the insert. It always makes me feel a little evil when I buy a product that comes with huge wads of packaging seven ways from sunday and ultimately just has a CD inside the box.

On the other hand, I agree that the nifty trinkets you got in some old-skool games were pretty nice and enhanced the feel of immersion of the game. Here I'm mostly thinking about the old Infocom games. If anything was a good argument against piracy, it was having those physical objects that really became part of the game experience. When I was young and just starting out playing games on my Vic-20 and Apple II, I pirated pretty much everything. The first *bought* game that I had was an Infocom game, and I bought it because of all the neat stuff in the box and how much that enhanced the game. The next bought game I got was Ultima IV, which also came with a lot of cool game-enhancing stuff (that metal ankh, the cloth map, etc.).

It's a bit of an internal war within me on that point: Ultimately I want to add as little junk to the landfills as possible, but on the other hand, I love feeling that connection with the game I'm playing.

[Vesh]

*sniff* Infocom trinket-swag. I do miss it. I still have my peril-sensitive sunglasses and various marketing materials from our friends at Frobozz. But I do still have them (inside their boxes, too), they're not 10 meters under the shaky foundation of a parking garage.

[Sanitariumer]

I think it's crazy stupid for anyone to use a pirated copy...

I guess, all these unfortunate people living on a few cents per hour in 3rd world countries are criminals because they can't afford legit software. :rolleyes:

There is no DRM schema in this world, which will stop piracy, simply because the problem is not within the pirates, but with the software industry's fundamentally flawed business model (which, by the way, assumes zero-day piracy). ;)

DRM is not here to curb the piracy. It's here to maximize the paying potential from a small group of users, who are technically challenged and don't know how to obtain and install cracked software. Guess what, most gamers don't fall in this category by far, especially adventure gamers. So all this DRM effort is laughable at best.

The real breakthrough will come when the business geniuses pushing DRM realize that it does little to change the ratio between those who pay and those who pirate. Once they start researching the needs of this second group, they will realize that there is actually a virgin market, much larger than the existing one, waiting to be saturated. (Nobel prize anyone?) ;)

[numble]

DRM is not here to curb the piracy. It's here to maximize the paying potential from a small group of users, who are technically challenged and don't know how to obtain and install cracked software. Guess what, most gamers don't fall in this category by far, especially adventure gamers. So all this DRM effort is laughable at best.

I think that most gamers play games on consoles, and given the large sales figures from console games, the vast majority of them seem to accept the DRM measures employed in all consoles, modchippers notwithstanding.

[jannar85]

It's very sad.. But what's positive about this, is when TTG updates the games, they can't just download the updates. They have to wait for someone to crack it, which is likely not to happen.

This can force those pirates (downloaders) to buy the legal version, to be able to play those updated versions :)

[Sp0tted]

Somehow, Jannar, I don't see that happening either way.

[bigtopfrank]

did anyone ever read about the copy protection for the game XIII? at a certain point in the game, it prevented the player from obtaining an object and had a message saying 'if you want the object buy the game'. i thought that was the most inventive (and guilt creating) piracy preventive i'd heard of.

i'd agree that the best way to combat it would be to make a joke within an episode about it. if i was playing it without buying it, that would make me feel guilty!

but truth be told, i bought up the series purely for the reason that i love sam and max . . . i think a lot of people did, and with that, a lot of people like me would have been willing to pay more for it. (that doesn't mean that telltale should make it more expensive though! they should just make more and more really, really awesome games!)

people who play pirated games don't do it for game or company loyalty or the ethos of the game itself. it's my firm belief that the people who buy the game are more likely to become loyal telltale customers - i know i will - i bought both bone games the same time as culture shock, thus providing more resources to telltale to make further games.

and besides . . . karma comes to everyone . . .

[Vesh]

Karma in this case coming in the form of a decade of mostly crappy games with big budgets and price stickers to match.

[bigtopfrank]

actually, i just had a bright and evil idea . . . us loving and slightly crazy users of sam and max could get together and poison torrents for the upcoming episodes a couple of days after they're released. all we'd need do is create a torrent with the following:
* the demo version of the episode
* an NFO file detailing a fake fancy hacker group
* an executable called 'cracker.exe' or similar

then post it on some torrent sites . . .

the executable could be written by anyone to look authentic, but instead of cracking the program, can link directly to the telltale site.

it's a method of fight fire with fire . . . but these are harsh times we live in!

[numble]

Well, for a simple measure... couldn't the demo just be separate from the main game?

I know that there are merits to the instantaneous-quality of paying and unlocking a demo that can be played right away, but could the demo be of a smaller file size, and the full version available to download when you pay?

It would force would-be pirates to pay for the game, and people that pay are less likely to go and pirate it off, I would think. Besides, that's at least a couple of sales instead of the zero sales that occur when the pirates download the demo and then start trying to crack that free download. If the full game content was separate from the free demo, the pirates would have to pay to get access to the full game, then start cracking.

Still not ideal, but that and an in-game pirating jab/joke are all I have for ideas...

[bigtopfrank]

oh that was your idea, numble? sorry, i didn't credit you, i'm at work and it's stinking hot and i was too lazy to check who said it way back on page one (take your pick for an excuse from me!). kudos for the idea, it rocks!

as for the demo/full game, agreed . . . i hadn't actually realised that they weren't different, myself. i just bought the game. demos be damned . . . if some poor bugger or buggers across the other side of the planet are going to trouble themselves to design a new sam and max game, well by jingoes, by crikey. . . i'll go to the trouble remember my credit card number for them.

unfortunately, the state of computing these days is that nearly anything that's released, and anything that has a fan base or market, will be cracked at somepoint.

i can't see the logic of the guy who said "I'd be tempted to get S&M from a P2P site as I'm completely broke as we speak and NEED a Sam 'n' Max hit" . . . this is the unfortunate world of instant gratification we live in.

need is a very strong word, best not to misuse it.

[numble]

Haha.. no I wasn't trying to point out the ownership of that joke idea... just saying that I was all out of ideas.

And I actually don't really know the mechanics of how buying from Telltale works, since I'm admittedly playing it via Gametap. So my ideas are not based on any experience I have with how the demos/downloads work.

[Emily]

Since the game is downloadable, and we need to provide easy access to it for our customers, separating the demo from the full game wouldn't make much of a difference.

As for poisoning torrents... some clever ideas, there. :D Incientally, the first day Culture Shock went on sale at our site it also showed up on a torrent, but it was actually 800MB of gay porn. :eek: Dunno who did that but we got a good laugh out of it.

[Alucard]

poison torrents on public torrent sites works but many people use private trackers now. Piracy is a neverending game of chess. I remember the old sam and max colouring book. Now there was top notch copy protection. :)
Well until I lost it and had to remember the answers by memory.
good times good times.
I think the price point for this game was a great step against people stealing this game. Now only if I could find my essay on piracy. It was a good essay too back in high school when the dmca was about to come out.
Piracy isn't going to destroy the world but I'd say it's about as hard to stop as say... global warming.

[spyrochaete]

I was really annoyed when I learned that S&M would be released first on Gametap which, at the time I heard it, was not available in Canada. When a friend told me about the availability of the pirated version I downloaded it immediately, but while it was downloading I checked the official site just in case. Lo and behold, direct download was on sale, and for a phenomenally fair price, so I bought it then and there.

There is nothing that can stop piracy, so I REALLY appreciate that Telltale didn't use any drastic forms of DRM/copy protection like Starforce to "protect" its game. Software like this only serves to frustrate legitimate users.

Thanks to the small file size and easy authentication process I had begun playing S&M a mere 5 minutes after paying for it. Considering my excellent experiences with Steam I was a little surprised and disappointed to see a simple EXE download link on their site instead of a unified download manager, but this is purely cosmetic and not a big deal.

I love this distribution model and I'm very hopeful for the future of episodic gaming. Kudos to Telltale and Steve Purcell for risking these uncharted waters and making the experience as convenient as possible for its customers! We really do appreciate your trust in us!

[Maize]

I checked the official site just in case. Lo and behold, direct download was on sale, and for a phenomenally fair price, so I bought it then and there.

There is nothing that can stop piracy, so I REALLY appreciate that Telltale didn't use any drastic forms of DRM/copy protection like Starforce to "protect" its game. Software like this only serves to frustrate legitimate users.

I have to agree that the best thing that one can do to stop piracy is to make it really quick and easy to buy and get playing. For a game that's under ten bucks (around six bucks if you subscribe to a season), even if I were into software piracy, that's cheap enough that it's worth just saving the effort.

I think that most users would be happy to pay for games if it were easy and they could afford it. There are still a number of hardcore "I won't pay for anything," people, but those are probably people you can't reach no matter what you do.

[Yohmi]

Yep, if it's easier to buy than to pirate it, it's really great ;) When there is a good stream, when it's quick (as telltale currently does), and cheap of course, why pirating... Why iTunes Music Store is so popular ? because it's the easiest and the fastest way to search, find and download music. And it's cheap.
I hate Starforce things... I bought a game that use a starforce authentication... I'd prefer to crack it, each time I want to launch it, it takes 1min to check security... pouah ^^

[patchit]

Well i wont be buying the game until its released on DVD/CD. And il be honest if that takes too long il be tempted by a pirate copy.

Before anyone says anything, fine $8 is cheap but for what iv heard is a 3 hour once through game, that works out probably more than a full game ($30-40 for anything upto 50 hours of play plus multiplayer).

Oh, and the reason why i dont pay for downloaded content? I dont trust computers.

P.S - Im here as the voice of the silent majority! Just release a damn full game, we dont mind waiting a few years inbetween its a good rest in between releases. Besides, builds up expectancy too..

[Alucard]

Do you really think your a majority anymore? Just look how many people pay for a MMO these days.....I too once thought as you did. I still won't pay per month a play a game but online content isn't a problem as long as it is quality. All we need to do now is step up the difficulty of the telltale games and we'll be set :)

[Yohmi]

Runaway just went out. It costs 60€ (more than 60$). Okay, it's a full game. I won't pirate it... but I won't buy it either. I never played a Runaway (except a demo) before. I liked it. I never played a new release of Sam&Max, in 3D, made by telltale... I bought it.

With 8€ I can drink two beers, with 60 bucks I can have a lunch every day of a week.

[Sp0tted]

Well i wont be buying the game until its released on DVD/CD. And il be honest if that takes too long il be tempted by a pirate copy.

Before anyone says anything, fine $8 is cheap but for what iv heard is a 3 hour once through game, that works out probably more than a full game ($30-40 for anything upto 50 hours of play plus multiplayer).

Oh, and the reason why i dont pay for downloaded content? I dont trust computers.

P.S - Im here as the voice of the silent majority! Just release a damn full game, we dont mind waiting a few years inbetween its a good rest in between releases. Besides, builds up expectancy too..

You don't trust computers, yet you'll go to a torrent site and download a game or a reg key?

You have any idea what kind of crap they put in those torrents just to freak out people like you?

If you do pirate this game because you're such a technophobe and won't download it legally as it comes out, I hope you do get a virus.

[Erwin]

Oh, and the reason why i dont pay for downloaded content? I dont trust computers.

I've never heard a more pathetic excuse than this. Be a man and admit that you're even too cheap to fork out a lousy 9 bucks. :rolleyes: Unbelievable.

--Erwin

[bigtopfrank]

Originally Posted by patchit
Oh, and the reason why i dont pay for downloaded content? I dont trust computers.

i know other people who don't trust computers . . . but they don't post on forums either . . .

Originally Posted by patchit
Im here as the voice of the silent majority! Just release a damn full game, we dont mind waiting a few years inbetween its a good rest in between releases. Besides, builds up expectancy too..

as for that quote, you have to remember in this case, with sam and max . . . we've been waiting years anyway. i think telltale realised the disappointment some of us had when lucasarts pulled the plug on freelance police and did their best to get a new game to us as soon as humanly possible. or as soon as rabbitly possible, if you prefer.

it's as much a sign of the times anyway, that some people just prefer to be entertained for a few hours, rather than walking aimlessly around for days on end in adventure games looking for the masking tape so we can put it on the shed door to make our moustache . . .

episodic releases via online purchase are most likely going to become a major part of adventure gaming in the years to come. i for one welcome it. i think a lot of other people here would agree.

[Maize]

Well i wont be buying the game until its released on DVD/CD. And il be honest if that takes too long il be tempted by a pirate copy.

Before anyone says anything, fine $8 is cheap but for what iv heard is a 3 hour once through game, that works out probably more than a full game ($30-40 for anything upto 50 hours of play plus multiplayer).

I'd say that it's probably closer to 4-6 hours, although for really skilled adventurers (which I'm not), it may be 3. If you buy the season instead of the single download, it costs $6, not $8, and you get a CD for the price of shipping at the end. $6 for 3-6 hours of entertainment is pretty good value, I think. Compare that to a movie theatre. (That's what I usually use as my entertainment metric.) It'll cost you $10 - $14 for two hours of entertainment.

Oh, and the reason why i dont pay for downloaded content? I dont trust computers.

Fair enough, but the season purchase gives you a CD as well as the downloads. You could also burn a CD of each download after you pull it down.

I had kind of an opposite experience last night. I much prefer to buy via instant download than via a shipped CD if I can, so I'm used to that being the case. I saw my Massive Assault disc lying around and realized that I hadn't installed it on my new computer. I tossed it in and ran the installer and it wanted the program key and the network key typed in. They're in the manual. Normally I'm very organized about this sort of thing, but for the life of me I can't find the manual anywhere! I find that way more tedious. With a download key, I can stick it several places and I always know where to look. I keep a copy in a folder in my e-mail, a copy on my file server at home, and a printed copy in my records. It's much easier for me to track down the registration information for a download than to hunt around the house for a manual which has some codes printed on the inside cover.

P.S - Im here as the voice of the silent majority! Just release a damn full game, we dont mind waiting a few years inbetween its a good rest in between releases. Besides, builds up expectancy too..

I think that a lot of these issues are practical. I wouldn't be surprised if it was simply not reasonable for a company like Telltale to get shelf space in Electronics Boutique in between Quake 47 and Ghost Recon 22.5. Offering by download is probably these days the only realistic option for small companies starting out or companies operating in niche markets. Splitting it into episodes allows them to get some cash flow while they're working on a large product and also allows them to keep the cost of each module low enough to overcome people's reticence about buying a game online.

[patchit]

Hmm interestin reply Maize, you make a good arguement. I guess il think about gettin the series, especially after reading that when the seasons out in full it'l be shipped to you on disk anyway.

I'd still say im definately opposed to the episodic idea, iv heard 3 hours max for this first episode (except perhaps for complete newcomers), that just aint enough time to really get absorbed in a game. Especially an adventure game, which is all about the journey..

In reply to an earlier post, id say anyone who really trusts PC's has never actually owned one. Anyway, heres waiting for the disks..

[numble]

In reply to an earlier post, id say anyone who really trusts PC's has never actually owned one. Anyway, heres waiting for the disks..

Nobody was saying that you should trust computers, just that using that as an argument against paying for downloadable games, but for downloading pirated games makes no sense whatsoever.

[AirbornePirate]

Well, I decided long ago that adventure games were the only games I would never EVER consider aquiring by other means. "Culture Shock" is no different. I have far too much respect for the writers, designers, and programmers to not compensate them for their hard work for my enjoyment. Honestly, short 3-4 hour bits is a good thing, keeps me from hermiting up for a few days at a time to play it, plus I have something to look forward to soon.

Besides, waiting is good for you.

[Maratanos]

I'd say that it's probably closer to 4-6 hours, although for really skilled adventurers (which I'm not), it may be 3. If you buy the season instead of the single download, it costs $6, not $8, and you get a CD for the price of shipping at the end. $6 for 3-6 hours of entertainment is pretty good value, I think. Compare that to a movie theatre. (That's what I usually use as my entertainment metric.) It'll cost you $10 - $14 for two hours of entertainment.


Ah, but see, if you read his post, you'll notice that he's expecting 50 hours of gameplay for 30 bucks (plus multiplayer). To which I say that he'll probably need to look elsewhere than adventure games, seeing as how the only ones that last 50 hours are the ones that, in fact, last infinitely more than that because they're so hard and stupid you never finish them. And by the way...

About the ONLY multiplayer adventure game happens to be coming out this December. It's called Myst Online: Uru Live. And it too comes only by download. Guess he's just expecting more than he's ever going to get... :rolleyes:

[jp-30]

About the ONLY multiplayer adventure game happens to be coming out this December. It's called Myst Online: Uru Live. And it too comes only by download. Guess he's just expecting more than he's ever going to get... :rolleyes:

What, no iJet?

[Maratanos]

What, no iJet?

Sorry, googling that isn't showing anything relevant up for me. Care to provide a link?

[bigtopfrank]

About the ONLY multiplayer adventure game happens to be coming out this December. It's called Myst Online: Uru Live. And it too comes only by download. Guess he's just expecting more than he's ever going to get... :rolleyes:

isn't 'the ship' a multiplayer adventure game as well?
http://www.theshiponline.com/

[Pvt._Public]

isn't 'the ship' a multiplayer adventure game as well?
http://www.theshiponline.com/

In a very roundabout way of speaking. I do see what you're getting at though. It's just that its more sneak-em-up than adventure really. Although tricking someone into thinking you're an NPC then following them around without their noticing for half an hour then beating them to death with an umbrella is very satisfying. Until you get blown up by some silly kid who's gotten hold of large gun and refuses to play the game properly. "LOl u r all teh sux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111 why u not shot bak?????????????????////////lol"

[bigtopfrank]

...Although tricking someone into thinking you're an NPC then following them around without their noticing for half an hour then beating them to death with an umbrella is very satisfying. Until you get blown up by some silly kid who's gotten hold of large gun and refuses to play the game properly. "LOl u r all teh sux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111 why u not shot bak?????????????????////////lol"
oh damn, that's makling me laugh so much . . .

i haven't played it . . . i'm a bit anti-multiplayer, myself.

[Pvt._Public]

I played it back when it was free mod on the original Half Life engine. I'm not certain if I can justify paying money for it now just because it's on the Source engine. Although it was quite a lot of fun. I heartily suggest finding out about it if anyone here doesn't know what it is. Just remember that although trying to kill someone in a 30's style cruise ship while finding out who's trying to kill you and not get caught by police is great fun right up 'til someone tries to play it like HL2 Deathmatch. You just can't enjoy it when people are flinding grenades around and typing words in Pygmy English about how they keep getting thrown into jail and how it, and everyone else "sux".

Although you have to use the dreaded "Steam". Which apparently some people here take offense at.

[bigtopfrank]

i can imagine . . . that's exactly why i don't play multiplayer games, because there's always someone that'll spoil it for everyone else.

[Pvt._Public]

Mostly I don't play 'em because I suck at 'em!

[bigtopfrank]

me too.

i think we've gone a bit off the topic though . . . it was on piracy, or something . . . i can't remember. will there be a test on this?

[Pvt._Public]

me too.

i think we've gone a bit off the topic though . . . it was on piracy, or something . . . i can't remember. will there be a test on this?

I sure hope not. I'm already in the middle of exams.

Just in reply to a few posts, just what is everyones beef with episodic games? I can understand stuff like SiN maybe (6 4-5 hour games which add up to an obscene amount of cash. Quite a good game series but bloody expensive) but I personally find most of these episodic games to be quite good. I have a huge stack of games I'm trying to play through. Many of them I probably won't get around to doing so for at least 3 months. But when I buy my HL2: Episode 1 and my Bone and my Sam and Max etc. I'm able to mess around for few hours, really get into the game, discover a whole bunch of secrets and enjoy the little moments and then happilly put it away for the next one which comes out in a few months (although I'm still waiting on Bone 3). And the Alone in the Dark formula (shipped as a full game but when you play it, it's split into multiple chapters or episodes) seems pretty interesting to me. I can play part of it 'til I get bored, play another game and then come back and enjoy a new chapter with a short reminder video from the last. Maybe it's just me but when I play most games I tend to get bored of the same backgrounds and gameplay after a while and I stop enjoying the game and find it a bit of a chore.

As for downloading games, I used to hate the idea too. Then I got a decent broadband connection :). I still prefer buying my games with a box and a lovely glossy manual but I don't mind downloading where necessary. Besides, it removes the cost of producing the box and CD/DVD plus shipping etc. and all that crap which seems to account for 2/3 of the price usually.

[spyrochaete]

You have any idea what kind of crap they put in those torrents just to freak out people like you?

I'm afraid I have to disagree with this. The pirate scene has always been about bragging rites, and this is achieved by releasing the newest games and making them as convenient to play as possible. Piracy isn't as big a competitor as rival software developers, but it's still important for game designers to release a product with more value than the pirated version.

I must admit my surprise and respect at how Telltale has achieved this without a physically tangible product. I happily purchased this game on its own merits, but also so that its business model can serve as a beacon to the rest of the industry.

[Maratanos]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with this. The pirate scene has always been about bragging rites, and this is achieved by releasing the newest games and making them as convenient to play as possible. Piracy isn't as big a competitor as rival software developers, but it's still important for game designers to release a product with more value than the pirated version.

I must admit my surprise and respect at how Telltale has achieved this without a physically tangible product. I happily purchased this game on its own merits, but also so that its business model can serve as a beacon to the rest of the industry.

On the other hand, the VIRUS scene is ALSO a lot about bragging rights. Virus makers want to get their viruses everywhere. And one way to do that, believe it or not, is to stick viruses on p2p networks under the guise of pirated games...

[Derwin]

Since the game is downloadable, and we need to provide easy access to it for our customers, separating the demo from the full game wouldn't make much of a difference.

As for poisoning torrents... some clever ideas, there. :D Incientally, the first day Culture Shock went on sale at our site it also showed up on a torrent, but it was actually 800MB of gay porn. :eek: Dunno who did that but we got a good laugh out of it.

So now I know what the torrent you said you found before the one I alerted you too (if they were different) was about. Haha, boy, am I extremely happy I didn't download a pirated S&M. Paying 35 bucks for the full season and no gay porn was definitely a great deal.

[Sp0tted]

On the other hand, the VIRUS scene is ALSO a lot about bragging rights. Virus makers want to get their viruses everywhere. And one way to do that, believe it or not, is to stick viruses on p2p networks under the guise of pirated games...

Right, just as it is important for the torrent people to get a clean file out quickly, it is important to the virus gang to add a tiny .dll that is hidden that will create havok on your machine.

[Derrick]

I purchased the 6-pack of episodes. Tried the first episode the day it came out, and found the copy protection loader conflicts with the front end I use to launch games.

So I went on-line and downloaded the crack the same day. There were a lot that were just virus, but it was still easy to find. And with the cracked version, it now works great with my front end.

So I probably will have to download new cracks as each episode comes out. Even though I paid for them.

I generally have to download cracks for all games I own, which really sucks. The cracks being needed so I don't have to get off my butt and put the CD in for validation. So as long as the cracks are easily available, I have no problem paying for programs that are reasonably priced.

I have also downloaded pirated games and then paid for them, such as "Chewy - Esc from F5."

D.

[bigtopfrank]

what exactly do you mean by this?
Tried the first episode the day it came out, and found the copy protection loader conflicts with the front end I use to launch games.

i don't get it . . . there's difference between a no cd 'patch' and a crack . . . anything you're using to patch sam and max is quite different from a no cd patch, in that the loader would most likely fill your registry with random product registration info, which would also be sent to telltale. if telltale ever pooled those registrations, and block them in, say, the version, you could well find that you're waiting for a crack to apply to that version so you can play it again. which, in actual fact, despite you owning the game, is still piracy of sorts.

it sounds, with this 'front-end', a lot like you're using some random and unnecessary software in an attempt to somehow make you're computer life easier or massively populated start bar less cluttered. the only acceptable 'front-ends' one should ever use, are interpreters, like scumm or dosbox or whatever.

[bigtopfrank]

i get it. looking at your other posts . . . i found out you use meedio. you should check out media portal (http://www.team-mediaportal.com/) . . . i never had a problem with it. especially considering meedio is no longer sold or supported.

viva la open source!

[Maize]

So now I know what the torrent you said you found before the one I alerted you too (if they were different) was about. Haha, boy, am I extremely happy I didn't download a pirated S&M. Paying 35 bucks for the full season and no gay porn was definitely a great deal.

Maybe they could make that an option when you download each episode! "Click here if you would like 800MB of gay porn with your download." Just, you know, in case anybody was interested. ;)

[Derrick]

i don't get it . . . there's difference between a no cd 'patch' and a crack . . . anything you're using to patch sam and max is quite different from a no cd patch, in that the loader would most likely fill your registry with random product registration info, which would also be sent to telltale. if telltale ever pooled those registrations, and block them in, say, the version, you could well find that you're waiting for a crack to apply to that version so you can play it again. which, in actual fact, despite you owning the game, is still piracy of sorts.

I suppose. But the companies force me to pirate what I officially own.

For example, I own TVtool, but because I tend to change my e-mail often, I never get the updated keys for new versions. It was easier for me to find a key generator and update versions that way, then waiting weeks for a response for a new key.

Or when I had to crack the floppy versions of Sam & Max and DOTT to get rid of the annoying copy protection, until I bought the 'Talkie' CDs that did not have protection. And so on, and so on....

As a paying customer, I should not be annoyed more then people who just pirate it without paying.

Hopefully Telltale will forgive me for using the cracked version of Sam & Max instead of the version I bought. Otherwise they can credit my Visa back. :D

i get it. looking at your other posts . . . i found out you use meedio. you should check out media portal (http://www.team-mediaportal.com/) . . . i never had a problem with it. especially considering meedio is no longer sold or supported.

Yeah I will have to try that out one day.

Meedio is another program I pirated for 6-8 months (30 day trial was way to short to properly evalute) before I had it working to a state that I thought it was worth paying cash for. Then 3 months later Yahoo bought them out, making it a waste of my money. Oh well...

D.

[Maize]

I suppose. But the companies force me to pirate what I officially own.

[...]

As a paying customer, I should not be annoyed more then people who just pirate it without paying.

Hopefully Telltale will forgive me for using the cracked version of Sam & Max instead of the version I bought.

As much as I'm pretty anti-piracy, I have to admit that it aggrivates me to no end when the copy protection shafts paying customers really badly. For example, I really hate it when I buy a game, devote multiple gigabytes of disk space to doing a full install and then have to have the first (or xth) CD inserted every time I want to play it. I have a laptop and it completely sucks to have to carry around the CDs for all my games just in case I feel like playing any of them. Even when I had a desktop, it was annoying to have to have a stack of discs sitting at the ready for every game I wanted to play regularly -- I like to put my CDs away safely in a folder once I've installed the app.

There have been several ocasions where I've been annoyed enough by it to download a no-CD crack for the game. I definitely downloaded cracks for several games that I legitimately purchased back in the days of code wheels and star charts and all those shenanigans. Similarly, I can't stand all the DRM on music from the iTunes Music Store, so I just don't purchase there in general. However, there was one time when I desperately wanted a song but didn't want to buy the whole album because I already had every other track on the disc on various other discs by the band. I ended up purchasing that one track on the iTMS and then, after buying it, going on the peer-to-peer networks and downloading a non-DRMed version of the song.

The other time that I've used pirated software has been for professional music applications that have no demo and nowhere near enough information to make a purchasing decision on their website. I don't mind taking a chance on a game, and most games do come with demos. However, when I'm spending several hundred dollars or in some cases over a thousand dollars and there's no trial or demo ... it's too much of a risk. On the few occasions it's come up, I've set myself a particular limit -- a time frame or a specific project, like, "I'll try it out for two months," or, "I'll use it for this particular track I'm working on." At the end of that, if the tool seems useful, I'll buy it. If it's not useful, I delete it completely. I've only felt the need to do that a few times, but I just find it ridiculous that some of these companies expect you to fork out the money they're asking without any more evidence than half a text page talking about how awesome the product is. I mean, some of them cost more than my bike did, and I certainly wouldn't have bought the bike if they'd told me I couldn't test-ride it first.

[ShaggE]

Piracy has good and bad to it. Sometimes you need to see if a game will even RUN on your system, especially if the game doesn't have a demo (and even when it does, it doesn't mean the full game will have the same requirements). I, for one, have a very finicky computer, and what SHOULD work doesn't always work. Hence, I tend to download a cracked copy first, and then purchase the legal copy. That way, I know I'm not being gypped, and the developers still get their well-deserved money.
BUT
I'm glad I didn't pirate Sam and Max though, for some reason, the transitions from one area to another can take up to 5 or 6 minutes on here, despite my exceeding the requirements. If I had illegally downloaded the game, the loading times would have put me off, (since I wouldn't have had the commitment to it that one has with purchased games) and I wouldn't have purchased the full game, thus I would have missed out on the first great point-and-click in years.

*disclaimer: There is no excuse for piracy, don't do it, etc.*

[JFresh]

Hey all =)

Ok here's my two cents on the whole pirating issue. Alas this has a rather sad tale to it:

Having always enjoyed BioWare games to that point (Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 + expansions) I had the impression that this was a very good company with a great team making, to that point awesome games. So when I saw Knights of the Old Republic in the store for $20 I pounced on the purchase =). Sure I could pirate it, but this was a Bioware game and the people responsible deserve their hard-earned cash for the title.

So I took it home, installed it and proceeded to play it. About a half-hour into the game it completely crashed on me. It quit, gave me some obscure error and dumped me back to Windows. Ok...So I tried playing it again and this time about 20 minutes in I decided to save. Saving went good but once done it crashed AGAIN! So I go onto their website and download a patch only to find it went up to 1.03. Well that's strange, because for a game like KOTOR to be $20 it has to have been out for quite some time, years in some cases and in also in this case. So I was rather surprised to see so little cleanup work done to this title. But no matter. Installed the patch and kept playing.

Still, even after the patch this problem did not disappear. And so I went back to the website and checked out the forums. It was there I found a sticky posted saying, in a nutshell, that if you have an ATI videocard then it's not our fault, it's ATI's fault. Uhm...it says on the box that my ATI card is supported. I have better than all the system specs listed but it mentions that my card is supported! What gives. So I follow their advice on fixing the issue and *downgrade* my graphics drivers! This worked considerably better as I now only saw maybe three crashes in a night of playing. But then, I hit the major twist in the game, if you've played it then you know what I'm talking about. Got through the cinematic, and then it crashed! Unlike the previous ones however I could not get by this one for anything! Mind you I'm a network admin and PC Tech support guy full time so believe me I tried just about everything. Finally, dejected and defeated I gave up. While I still kept the game installed I decided to put it on hold until, hopefully, a day would come when this issue would get resolved. About *2 YEARS* later, ATI released a patch for their videocard that got me past this point in the game and I was able to complete it.

Needless to say this left a very bad taste in my mouth. Why did I bother to pay $20 of my hard-earned cash for a game that was essentially broken for 2 years? Why didn't they have a little sticker on the box or put a little piece of paper explaining the problem? With piracy issues being much more mainstream once you open the game you can't return it for anything!

I honestly can't bring myself to buy another BioWare game again. Should I really have to check the game dev's tech-support forum's just to ensure that a game will work with my PC? That's a lot of work for just one game.

So that's my one point for piracy. If I can't return it once I open the package, and it doesn't work what do I do? Just eat the money and leave it at that?

However I do feel that game developers should get paid for their work. To that end, I feel there are a couple ways to go about the piracy issue. One is to completely forego all piracy counter-measures. Clearly people are going to crack the game whether you like to or not and so why pour money into something that is ultimately going be undone in a matter of days?

Second, the only other way I've thought of, and I"m sure it's flawed, is to have a program created that would be used for all game dev's to publish their games that wanted some form of copy protection. This program would have the game register with its server to ensure its legitimacy before the gamer is allowed to play. No server reg? No play. Steam I guess is an implementation of such a strategy but one that I ultimately feel is flawed. Besides the issues people have had with it I feel that its biggest flaw is that Steam is owned and operated by one company. Imagine if the biggest names in game publishing all decided to follow suit and release their own Steam clone offering their own games? I could see a future where we're running nearly a half-dozen if not more Steam clones in order to play all the games we want. This would bog down system resources and probably make for a bit more of an unstable computing environment. Having a neutral body to publish all games could be done with one client on the end user's system to handle this. Furhtermore it would free up maint. costs from those companies and allow them to focus more on creating games.

So that's my $5.

If you've read this far thanks for hearing me out! =)

JFresh

[jp-30]

Sorry, googling that isn't showing anything relevant up for me. Care to provide a link?

Sure thing (http://www.google.co.nz/search?ct=result&cd=1&q=bad+brain+ijet).

[Hero1]

Sure thing (http://www.google.co.nz/search?ct=result&cd=1&q=bad+brain+ijet).

haha please dont remind me :o

[The Butler]

I know this is my first post but I've just bought Sam and Max and the only reason I did was because I found a pirated copy of Sam and Max Hit the Road, one of the few adventure games I never played when I was a kid.

I think an easy way for game companies to reduce piracy a little would be if they weren't so precious over their back catalgoue, especially as it seems a vast majority of games these days are sequels. Take Gothic 3 for example... a month or two before its release I'd downloaded a copy of gothic 2 (a game that I had no interest in on its original release to buy OR download). On the back of that I ended up buying Gothic 2 of amazon AND buying Gothic 3 on its launch day. I'm sure that if maybe game companies released the previous game for download it would help a little to discouraged piracy (I'm thinking CivIII -> CIV or Rome TW -> Medieval 2 TW or UT2005 -> UT2006 etc.).

It might not irradicate piracy but it might help retreive some revenues for developers...

[apignarb]

II'm sure that if maybe game companies released the previous game for download it would help a little to discouraged piracy

Either that, or most rational people would just hold off purchases for a years time, so that they could download them for free instead. I know I wouldn't mind not playing the most recent games, if all others were readily available for free download.

[Legolas813]

Telltale doesn't own Hit the Road, so there is no option of a freeware release.

And LucasArts just plain doesn't care about adventures.

[Hero1]

It would make sense for LucasArts to put hit the road on gametap..but LucasArts don't make any sense :cool:

[JFresh]

Heck some companies have actually done it =). A good example or two would be the Grand Theft Auto series. Both GTA 1 and 2 are freely available to the masses and right off their own site no less =).

There are many other games that have also since gone freeware from the companies that produced them. Check out this site for a more complete list (as well as download links) the site does keep tabs on itself so if something they post turns out to be non-freeware they immediately take it down. Anyway, happy retro-gaming =)

www.liberatedgames.com

[CameronH1403]

I downloaded the demo, played it and then bought it right away..I am glad I did since I want Telltale to keep producing these games.

[Noone9]

I just found out exactly yesterday that this game existed, and my reaction was: "FUCK YEAH!". I have been a fan of graphic adventures ever since The Secret of Monkey Island, I own every single SCUMM engine based Lucasarts adventure games and many Sierra games too. Ever since the flop of Escape from Monkey Island, Lucasarts decided to kill their graphic adventures which is understandable based on the type of company that they are and their market strategies, so although I felt betrayed they decided to discontinue production of Sam & Max: Freelance Police and Full Throttle: Hell on Wheels, I somehow accepted the decision and resigned to the possible fact that graphic adventures were dead.

After I found that S&M2 and FT2 were canceled I didn't imagine either of them would be picked up by any company, so I didn't bother to do any research and since most gaming updates I get from sites like ebgames/gamestop I didn't even know this company existed. I have been aching to have a sequel to either Sam & Max, Day of the Tentacle, or/and Full Throttle. So the story goes like this... Yesterday out of nostalgia I was looking up on bittorrent to download the old Lucasarts games and replay them, since I no longer have the CD's, and to my surprise when I did a search for Sam & Max I saw this torrent "Episode I Culture Shock", I thought it may be some comic book or some TV episode, but when I read the reviews they were speaking about the new game, and I was like: NO FUCKING WAY?

So I looked it up and to my surprise, voila, it was true, an independent developer had made a 3D version of Sam & Max to honor the saga, I kept digging in and I read they were composed mostly of former Lucasarts employees who worked on the original project and Steve Purcell was working with them, so I cannot express the feelings of joy that just came over me.

So you see, piracy is not necessarily a 'bad thing', if it had not been because of the torrent, I wouldn't have found out about the existence of this company for a LONG time. So I downloaded the torrent with the crack and played the demo, and I must say it is pretty awesome and really funny, it truly captivates the essence of Sam & Max.

I liked it so much that as soon as I do a transfer to Paypal I'm gonna buy the whole season and I'm probably gonna get the Bone games too (which seem like they can be cool also), so I can support this company.

[In regards to the game, the developer, and game distribution]
I must say that the download approach is very good, the costs for distribution to a first/third party retailer will be considerably high for a small company like this one, so if they did that, they would have to increase the price for the product, besides the fact that most gamers nowadays don't care about graphic adventures so it would be a lot of waste in effort. Instead they offer us a direct download link for $9 or the full season for $35 (far less than any full new release), which focuses on the correct market which is us, graphic adventure gamers. I must say I totally LOVE the episodic approach, you guys give us a taste of the pie while you keep developing and releasing new episodes ASAP. I haven't played the full game yet (just the demo), but from user accounts it seems like the game can be finished by a seasoned gamer in about 3 hours, if that's so the game is still totally WORTH it, if you guys don't remember the original Sam & Max Hit the Road wasn't that long either, it could be finished in a couple of hours. Hell I remember I finished Full Throttle in like 3 - 4 hours. And Monkey Island 1 can be finished in 1 - 2 hours. Also a very cool game from Sierra, Gabriel Knight could be finished relatively fast, about 6 hours. I finished Curse of Monkey Island in a few hours also. Graphic Adventures are not great because of how long they are but because of their witty dialogue sequences, the sometimes hard puzzles, and the overall interactive experience that even RPG's lack.

In regards to the 2D artwork vs 3D CGI, I must say that even though I love the classics, its time to move on as technology evolves. We all loved those point & click 2D sprites with beautifully hand-drawn backgrounds that ran on the old SCUMM engines, but at this time with MK4 & Grim Fandango we have learned that graphic adventures can be fully 3D and be as much or even more fun. Oh and the voice acting is pretty cool. It is definitely a whole new generation for Sam & Max and graphic adventure gaming, so I am really looking forward to Telltale Games future projects.

Anyhow congratulations to Telltale Games, you guys did an excellent job, also its very cool that you guys read the posts in the forum and interact with us, it gives us confidence that the developer cares about its fans. And don't be discouraged by the fact that there are pirated versions running about, all the real fans will buy the games anyhow and the pirated copies just help make the game more famous and give it promotion, which is good.

[Emily]

Anyhow congratulations to Telltale Games, you guys did an excellent job, also its very cool that you guys read the posts in the forum and interact with us, it gives us confidence that the developer cares about its fans.

Thank you. I'm glad you found us! :D

FYI, PayPal isn't working with the season set right now, but it will hopefully be up and running later this week.

[ShiratoriNinjaBrat]

those bastards who decide to pirate tell tale games....
i shall hunt them down, every last one of them, the bastards.


at least pirate EA. they don't even pay who they employ overtime, and they make unoriginal crap on the perpetual state to make games more and more overly realistic each year with no hopes for creativity, art, just alot of things that look good blowing up.
hell who would even want to pirate ea, cause i know it'd be a waste of time, cds, and disk space. but you can't just rip off a company that makes it's games outta love. You can't cause, it's like Katamari Damacy, a game with alot of love.

if only everyone else saw things that way. *combine jesse jame's hand with mind control device* it didn't want to do it.

[tvcokecan]

I;m not going to lie, I do pirate games. However I pirate games from massive companys who I see as robots, I would never pirate this game, infact S&M has become the 3rd legal game I have downloaded! Heh. I am the same with music, I would never pirate from a small time band, infact someone I am listening to now gives me rights to share his music after I paid the dollar for the song.

[dloeke]

I don't play a lot of games, and therefore I'm not that involved with all this piracy-stuff that's going on. I am, however, quite interested in music, and I make it a principle to not download music. I always purchase the CDs, and that makes the purchase all the more worthwhile, considering that I've never heard most of the songs on the album. And even though a lack of funds somehow keeps me from buying too many CDs, I really appreciate those CDs that I do buy. Music, books, movies and games are all pieces of art, and I believe the creators should get paid for the hard work they have put into it. Okay, I do download some television shows, but only the ones I know I'm eventually going to buy on DVD when they are released. The reason is merely because several of the shows I love aren't even shown on TV in Norway, so it's my only option. :)

Anyway, I do pay for the Sam & Max-games, because I believe the work being done by Telltale Games is absolutely marvellous. You people deserve to get paid for what you do, because you obviously put a lot of hard work and effort into it. And... well... the games rock, and that's a pretty good reason to buy them instead of downloading them illegally. ;)

[Rowne]

I have a similar stance to Orenji except that I don't pirate things for two distinct reasons.

1. If I want something then I make the exchange for it, I do have socialistic leanings so I only tend to support small companies and make payments when I feel it's worth it.

2. There's just too much risk involved, I feel that anyone who chooses to pirate anything of their own volition is frankly not the brightest of spherical glass illumination devices. I have respect for my property, I believe that downloading anything from a source that isn't 100 per cent trustworthy or where I can read and compile the source for myself just isn't worth it. A suitable metaphor would be to say that piracy is rather like playing ping-pong with the fine china, which is great if one could afford to do that.

In other words, more well-off people are likely to pirate than poor people, it just goes to show that the more money you have, the more depraved you are but I won't prattle on about that at the moment.

I'm not well off, in fact I fall into the 'poor' bracket, I'm definitely worker class, I'm the kind of person who supports a World where wage-slavery and heirarchy really wouldn't be nessscary so I feel that exploitation and just taking advantage of people is wrong.

I accept the World I live in so I'm willing to bridge my beliefs over a bit in an effort of open understanding and acceptance and therein I will freely buy certain things but there are items which I believe are "just for laughs".

An OS that costs £200? A piece of software that costs £600? No thanks, that's just taking the piss. Even games which decide to price themselves up around the £50-£60 price mark are crossing the line in my opinion because I feel that it's never justified and it's simply pulling on a genrés fans to line some fat-cat's pocket.

However, when it comes to a piece of quality entertainment that only costs £6 (be it Sam & Max or Gibbage, to toss the frothingly desperate Dan Marshall a bone), which is the same price as a PC games magazine these days, I'll happily pay for both my own entertainment (which is a luxury, not a necessity) and to support the company in question.

Not only that but GameTap doesn't cost much more on a per month basis, what it provides is a better deal than similarly priced services which charge the same (such as MMOs) but more, it's cheaper than almost every MMO out there and it has its own MMO as part of the bargain which makes it a great deal for people who don't have a lot of money to splash around.

I wouldn't say that it's just or desperate for anyone to nick £6 from a company like Telltale because it is a luxury, not a necessity and that's a point I'll keep making. It really is quite simply depraved and to be honest, I don't think the people who'd steal like that are any better than the thieves who'd charge £600 for a piece of software.

Therefore I doubt any jokes within the game could reach or even shame them because there'd be nothing left to reach.

Just my two pence.

I hope Telltale doesn't let these piracy efforts go to heart and that they continue to develop, thanks to GameTap funding that shouldn't be a worry for a bit but both if the climate for releasing games were better (less exploitive publishers) and the people were more trustworthy, GameTap wouldn't even be needed.

(Edit: Cleaned up ambiguity ... and I'm VERY not used to this forum software.)

[Rowne]

Oops, double post.

[Codmate]

I felt good about handing over my cash for this game.
It's hardly as though it's expensive - and the entertainment value is all there IMO!

If you can afford a net connection, you can afford this game - no excuses!

[Kunkku-Antti]

Well, if people can afford a computer they can afford any game. So, being poor is not an excuse because poor people don´t play.

I don´t pirate games that much, the reason though is that most of the games released today are shit and I rather read Dostojevsky than waste my time on some stupid FPS. Oh, but sometimes I am "forced" to download some games. The reason for this behaviour is that I can´t find those games anywhere or that I couldn´t bother to search for a game, give money to some random guy who happens to own a game and just waste time on a searching process when there´s absolutely no sensible reason to do that.

However, I am totally in support of supporting smaller companies that make stuff that bigger companies don´t want to. And if you absolutely have to pirate some games to save money, don´t save it on these ones. Actually you probably should show a support if you enjoy the game, perhaps we will get more of them.

[Orrah]

The 'I can't afford it' excuse for pirating is an incredibly poor excuse! As has already been said in this thread, if you can afford a computer - and the electricity to run the thing - I'm sure you can afford to pay for your games. It's not as if Sam & Max was even expensive either. I've paid £30-£40 (or more for a 360 game :( ) to play some terrible games, so I was more than happy to subscribe for the whole season of Sam & Max when I had the chance.

And sure, Culture Shock isn't a 30 hour game but I enjoyed playing it much more than most games I've bought over the past few years. I'll agree that there are plenty of games out there that really aren't worth buying, but Sam & Max is (and hopefully always will be) worth every penny. :D

[Orusaka]

I'm not going to take any stance on piracy here, as convincing those who don't find it to be wrong, is fruitless labour. What I will do, however, is outline how a game is cracked, and why some of the measures that have been suggested won't work.

First off, to crack a game, you have to buy it. No way around it. A game is cracked by comparing the opcodes between the functioning product and the non-functioning product. Then the neccessary opcodes are changed in the non-functioning product, in order to make it act like the original product. Usually, a single jump command will need to be changed per call, but it really varies between the various copy protection schemes.

Anyway, my point here wasn't to tell people how to crack games, but to tell them that having seperate demo and full versions are pointless, because whoever wishes to crack it will have to buy the full version at any rate.

[ShaggE]

I disagree with the "if you can afford a computer" arguement. Some recieve computers as gifts, some win computers via contests, some may make less money since buying the computer.... you get the idea. Being near-homeless myself, and having a computer I recieved as a gift, I can honestly say that some truly cannot afford games.

[Kunkku-Antti]

I disagree with the "if you can afford a computer" arguement. Some recieve computers as gifts, some win computers via contests, some may make less money since buying the computer.... you get the idea. Being near-homeless myself, and having a computer I recieved as a gift, I can honestly say that some truly cannot afford games.

As long as you aren´t homeless, you can afford a game. And if you are nearly homeless, why don´t you sell your computer?

I am sorry, but I disagree.

[taumel]

Well, the episode format should make a game more affordable for those who can't/wan't to invest the amount of a full price game in one step - like Charles Dickens once did.

I also disagree with Kunkku's statement as i easily can imagine that there are people around who have to take care of each dollar/euro they have and who aren't able to just buy a game whilst they do own a computer.

But beside of downloading a pirated game there do exist also legal alternatives for gaming as a) you can play one of the games which are available for free, b) loan a game from a library (if available), c) exchanging your game with others, d) get a game for cheap as a budget/compilation title, e) buy a game on the second hand market, f) write your own game and so on.

So i think it should be possible to get into some gaming also without investing too much money or money at all...

[Erwin]

Many people loan games from friends, or buy them second hand. In either case, the developer doesn't get any money from this potential customer, so if (s)he pirated the game instead, it'd make no difference. Except in court, perhaps ;)

--Erwin

[brunner]

Here are my thoughts:

People that won't pay for things will always crack DRM. Always. DRM doesn't stop anyone that wants to break it. The only thing DRM does is hinder people like me.

For example, I buy DVDs. I want to put them on my iPod, but doing so is not only a rigmarole, but also illegal. It is a shame that the studios and the MPAA do everything in their power to cripple piracy, but only end up killing fair use.

Luckily, the copy protection on Culture Shock was transparent. I understand why it sounds like such a good idea on paper, but it only hurts legitimate users like myself. Pirates will always find away around it. Locked doors don't stop thieves; they just keep honest people "honest." DRM, on the whole, is turning honest users into "crackers" just so they can utilize fair use. I think that is a crying shame.

[numble]

Here are my thoughts:

People that won't pay for things will always crack DRM. Always. DRM doesn't stop anyone that wants to break it. The only thing DRM does is hinder people like me.

Luckily, the copy protection on Culture Shock was transparent. I understand why it sounds like such a good idea on paper, but it only hurts legitimate users like myself. Pirates will always find away around it. Locked doors don't stop thieves; they just keep honest people "honest." DRM, on the whole, is turning honest users into "crackers" just so they can utilize fair use. I think that is a crying shame.

Brunner: Well I think it does prevent what many of us did do as kids, just letting your friends "borrow" a copy (meaning copying it to their hard drive and/or making copies of the floppies).

Back then, we would just wait for one kid in school to get the game, and then seemingly everybody would eventually have it installed on their computer if they wanted to. Nowadays, I imagine kids would say "come to my house to check out this cool game" or "this game is cool, you should ask your mom to get it for you." But DRM makes it so that a lot of the "borrowing" of the past doesn't work--you'll always need the original CD to replay it and/or digital distribution limits where the game can go.

Yes, there are probably some kids that know how to visit pirate sites, but my only point was that DRM does counter some of the piracy that occurred in the past.

[ShaggE]

As long as you aren´t homeless, you can afford a game. And if you are nearly homeless, why don´t you sell your computer?

I am sorry, but I disagree.

Why don't I sell my computer? Hmm, let's see. I need my computer to work, for one. Also, it's deemed bad taste to sell a gift, and seeing as how this was built by a family member from parts it took him quite a long time to accumulate, I wouldn't sell it for anything. And I didn't mean "I'm on the verge of becoming homeless", I meant "I have a very small income". Games usually cost around $60. Thus, I only buy games when I can spare the cash. Other times, I'm stuck with freeware and abandonware titles.

Until you've picked yourself up from the gutter after realizing you can't spend another night paying crackheads so you can sleep in their apartments, and you are making your way back up the social ladder, don't tell me what I can and cannot afford, please.

[Kunkku-Antti]

Okey-dokey!

[Rowne]

Just to note, I agree with brunner as far as DRM is concerned.

Eventually, companies will wean themselves off it plain and simple because to paraphrase Cory Doctorow; "If you have to alienate your userbase in order to sell a product, then it's not an internet ready business model." Some companies are already realising this and either removing DRM from their peddled wares (certain labels are doing this on Yahoo, right now) or scaling it back and making it as transparent as possible.

Now the systems I have the least problems with are, to be honest, Steam and GameTap. With Steam I can (with people I do 100 per cent trust) share the account details around and we can all play and have fun. GameTap allows unlimited subaccounts, two people to play on one account simultaneously (yay, free Uru Live!) and the sharing of the master account, like Steam. In fact, if Steam and GameTap were combined, taking Steam's open file-structure and GameTap's subaccounts and liberal dual-user usage, then one would likely have one of the friendliest DRM systems out there and it'd be future-proofed well until the inevitable point where DRM is abolished for good.

From what I've seen, the Telltale system is transparent on one computer but if it's limited beyond that then I agree they do need to rework their base system to allow for fair-use and make it more friendly to the average person, it only makes the company providing the entertainment more popular in the end.

I think that Telltale definitely have it right as far as their pricing system goes, I find that to be very reasonable and I congratulate them for it. It's a bloody good system. However, if their DRM system is less friendly then they might have to rework it a bit eventually. Though seeing that the Telltale folks do tend to have open eyes, ears and minds I wouldn't count them out entirely even if the DRM does prove to be unfriendly to too many people.

I can't say for myself yet though because I have only tried it on one PC. Still, I'd trust Telltale to do the right thing in this area.

[Screaming Gamer]

I'm more than happy to pay for games! I can't see why others arent?
The quality and playability is so superb with TTG and my few pounds I pay are quite deserving! I get a great game, they get finance for the next. Theres always going to be a few idiots out there who don't think like that! 'All for one' is their motto!

[MarkoH01]

I really think that some PC games are much too expensive - so I do understand some people downloading stuff - but THIS is cheap, quality and definately worth the money. I cannot wait to afford Episode 2. It's a good product and every adventure fan should spend the money for it. To save Sam + Max and to save good adventures.

Thank you Telltale for these great games!

[sokuni]

Well, piracy cannot be avoided. Although it's kind of an evil compliment to get one's software pirated, since the game has to be good to get pirated this fast. But I really do not like the fact that a game with this quality, subject and price is being pirated.

The average gamer lacks real morale. That's what I'd say.

[bashar]

Well, I really feel a shame. When I was young I didn't know what pirated copy mean and what harm it does. Now I fully understand. And some how, friends of mine who keep complaining why Lucas unplugged the adventure games never actually bought any original adventure game from them. And even now, I keep telling them to look for new telltale episodes and others, eventually they download it for FREE!

The complain about the dying adventure games, they think about doing their own gaming business, and when someone listens to the cries, they want it for FREE!

But cheer up telltale, we are right behind you :)

[doom saber]

See, I'd like to emphasize something elsenator said...



This is very true. The book Free Culture, as I recall, lists at least three (maybe four, but I only remember three of them) reasons people illegally "pirate" software. In fact, only one of them is strictly detrimental.

1. People download a piece of software INSTEAD of buying it. This is bad, beacuse it deprives the developer of money.
2. People download a piece of software, but wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have downloaded it. It is neutral, because downloading hasn't deprived the developer of anything, because they wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have gotten it free.
3. People download a piece of software, to try it out. They like it, and then buy it. This is good, because they wouldn't have bought it unless they knew they'd like it, which they determined via downloading it.

However, it must be emphasized that ALL THREE are illegal. No ifs, ands, or buts. All three are always illegal.


Personally, if there is something I can obtained easily by purchasing, like Telltale's Sam and Max game, I would buy it in an instant. However, like some of you guys here, I too was introduced to adventure games through a bootleg copy. But once I got older( my teens), I started buying my adventure games thanks to a local computer show at the time, which had all the sierra adventure games made.
I buy my games since my older brother and I like to have a legit copy, with all the paperwork and such. Heck, other than adventure games (including Sam and Max,) World of Warcraft, Sims 2, and maybe the Castlevania games, I rarely play games. Guess I have lost interest in games. However, I still buy the o rest just to collect like Final Fantasy XII collector's edition.


How do I feel about pirating Sam and Max? It hurts the company. What l learn from a beta tester who beta tested Prey that sales of the game via retail doesn't hurt game developers since they have already sold their stock to a store for them to sell. In other words, Walmart, for example, buys x amount of stock from a publisher and then sells it to retail. However, I am not sure if this is correct since I am a toy collector and this doesn't work for toys. For toys, whenever something goes on clearance, the toy developer has to buy back their stock so that a store like Toys R us can sel it via clearance. This is why a lot of toy companies are going goin out of business.

As for the case of online games, I am sure it hurts the company since Telltale is sellin their game online, where they get the money from the consumers and not some big corperation. True, gametap gave them money, but i think the money used is primary for the development of the game

[Erwin]

Well, piracy cannot be avoided. Although it's kind of an evil compliment to get one's software pirated, since the game has to be good to get pirated this fast. But I really do not like the fact that a game with this quality, subject and price is being pirated.

The average gamer lacks real morale. That's what I'd say.

I can't wait to see my game appear on BitTorrent! I might even put it there myself! :o

--Erwin

[t800]

well apart from the whole debate about piracy i must say that im happy to add a crack to the cd when im gonna put it into storage. who knows if the activation servers will be online when im gonna show it to my kids in 30 years or so.

people who buy it buy it, who dont dont, but any non major publication will propably just gain from being spread because it might lead to purchases in the end.

[RMJ1984]

Actully most people are wrong. Most people who download illigal is to try and then buy.. I myself offen do this.. Offcourse telltale is pretty good a releasing demos of the episodes...

But from my (local sources) i have not yet seen Episode 2 on the net, also most groups doesnt even touch games from small companies. Offcourse someone allways will release in the end. So i doubt telltale needs to be worried.

I cant wait to get my cd when season 1 is complete :D

[Silkut]

As an amateur reverse code engineer I can tell it is a shame to pirate's such products. As said before almost all the ingredients are here to avoid piracy. Our heroes Sam & Max, some protections, and a low price.
But be careful, the protection used in the second EP is very easy to attack, that's a classical protection target for confirmed crackers.
I also understand that the game protection could be a big charge, that's actually the problem of little applications imho.
I wonder if there is a special part of the development team wrking on security sheme, or is it something else ?

At last but not least, I'd like to thank you ppl from Telltale for the job done, that's pretty wonderful. You make fan's dream a reality.

[imi]

I like this idea. :D

Please be very carefull about jokes regarding "those bad software pirates". From a software producers point of view, cracking a game's protection is always a bad thing and joking about the bad guys may seem tempting.

But to many people, software companies are less sympathic and attacking them sounds not so bad. So you can end up quickly beeing just the boring teacher with the waving forefinger.

(Before anyone starts to attack me: I am a software developer too. I just want prevent yet another lame ingame joke referencing "bad pirates" that kills atmosphere ;-)

Imi.

[fhqwhgads]

I do fondly remember "Elmo Pug and the software pirates of pestulon" in Space Quest III ;)

[matan]

Hmmm... I think the pirates of pestulon were not really "software pirates" but rather a big software company making software games. The whole scenario was meant as a parody of Sierra itself and not of software pirates.

[Silkut]

Please be very carefull about jokes regarding "those bad software pirates". From a software producers point of view, cracking a game's protection is always a bad thing and joking about the bad guys may seem tempting.


I second that opinion, usually crackers only need some motivation to attack a video game. A famous protection, a famous title or simply a company reputed for hate against pirates. This is only a matter of challenge.

[DjNDB]

I was wondering, will the CD Version still require online activation or will inserting the CD be sufficient?
I think it's a serious archiving issue because, as mentioned earlier, no activation service can be guaranteed to last forever.
That's why i don't buy DRMed stuff - You don't actually own it and depend on the good-will (and existence) of a company.
But i could not resist to buy Sam&Max Series 1, especially because i want to support telltale in resurrecting the game genre i spent my childhood with.

Furthermore, will i have to pay bazillions of dollars to get the CD shipped to Germany, because i bought S1 in the telltale store, or will there be a way to get the CD for less shipping costs from a German distributor, once there is one?

[numble]

This is Sam and Max folks, they've gone and made fun of Scientology (which has a record of getting episodes of shows making fun of it banned), sitcoms, game shows, cooking shows, Oprah, the O'Reilly Factor, and the Weekly World News in one episode alone, along with one-off snide jokes about Tom Hanks, the Cosby Show/Small Wonder, and assorted other American entertainment culture elements. As always, it's done in a tongue-in-cheek vein. Surely you don't think that some sarcastic remark about how X video game company went bankrupt because people refused to buy its $6 games (or some other tongue in cheek comment) can be taken that seriously can you?

[doom saber]

This is Sam and Max folks, they've gone and made fun of Scientology (which has a record of getting episodes of shows making fun of it banned), sitcoms, game shows, cooking shows, Oprah, the O'Reilly Factor, and the Weekly World News in one episode alone, along with one-off snide jokes about Tom Hanks, the Cosby Show/Small Wonder, and assorted other American entertainment culture elements. As always, it's done in a tongue-in-cheek vein/ Surely you don't think that some sarcastic remark about how X video game company went bankrupt because people refused to buy his $6 games (or some other tongue in cheek comment) can be taken that seriously can you?


I think Myra is also based on Rosie O' Donnell because of he accent and Rosie also had her own talk show

[danny8709]

to be honest i downloaded episode one from a p2p network. but shortly after i ended up prepaying for the entire season. as long as people realize that tell tale games (aka independent publisher) is the company making sam n max and not crappy lucasarts, i think most fans will pay for the episodes.

the file thats floating around is the demo with a crack to unlock it. but the funny thing is the crack doesnt work very well and most people on the p2p site have posted complaints that they cant get it to work or that it's broken. lol.

[Keir]

I don't have much money so whether it's music or games or whatever I do rip off some stuff. But I also support the stuff I really like, especially if it's not a big money maker. I was happy to buy season 1 because I want to play season ten, and if not enough people buy season 1 there won't be a season 10! Also the games are great value now, imagine how great they could make them if they sell twice as much as they expected and can spend more on development!

[ShaggE]

to be honest i downloaded episode one from a p2p network. but shortly after i ended up prepaying for the entire season. as long as people realize that tell tale games (aka independent publisher) is the company making sam n max and not crappy lucasarts, i think most fans will pay for the episodes.

the file thats floating around is the demo with a crack to unlock it. but the funny thing is the crack doesnt work very well and most people on the p2p site have posted complaints that they cant get it to work or that it's broken. lol.

I did the same thing, but I too am going to buy the season package, I cannot in all good conscience rip Telltale off, and I wouldn't want to anyway. Only reason I downloaded episode 1 from a torrent site was to see how it would run on my machine. (I wasn't aware that there was a demo version at the time)

EDIT: And yes, I deleted it after testing it :P

[B-Real]

I'm also one of those who downloaded the first episode from P2P and guess what - I liked it so much I bought all 6 episodes!

[Grey]

1. People download a piece of software INSTEAD of buying it. This is bad, because it deprives the developer of money.
2. People download a piece of software, but wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have downloaded it. It is neutral, because downloading hasn't deprived the developer of anything, because they wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have gotten it free.
3. People download a piece of software, to try it out. They like it, and then buy it. This is good, because they wouldn't have bought it unless they knew they'd like it, which they determined via downloading it.

Another reason, as others have pointed out, is to bypass DRM. Many people have pirated Windows XP simply because they don't want the hassle of Product Activation every time they modify their PC's hardware. Other apps and games get pirated only because the user doesn't want harmful Starforce drivers or rootkits on their computer, or because they don't want software that stealthily connects to remote servers to gather system info.

There's also the issue of availability. A few years ago, Empire released an expansion pack that worked only on the UK version of their game. How many Americans have the money or resources to place an online order for a foreign copy of a game they already own? And even if they did, would they be willing to if it could be easily downloaded? Not me.

This applies to music as well. New songs are played on radio well in advance of the CD's release date. You won't find the CD in the stores but you can always find an advance promo copy illegally available on the internet.

[ShaggE]

Good point, I for one avoided StarForce-protected software at all costs, that was a true travesty.

On another note, abandonware is, in my opinion, a perfectly acceptable form of piracy. It's a hot debate, but why make it illegal to download software that is nigh-impossible to get otherwise, and usually developed by companies that have long since gone under, or have simply stopped supporting the software?

[Wilyam]

I am simply happy, that Sam&Max have revived from dead! ;)

For the sake of it I have issued a credit card (usually it here is absolutely not necessary - we pay cash) and have bought 1 season.

I live in Russia.
You know, that Russia - the country of computer pirates (it is the truth! Any DVD (films, games, music) costs at us $3 for disk), but I have (certainly) got game here.
If want, I can tell to you motives of the people buying piracy production.


P.S. Sorry for my... hm... English. :)

[Jake]

This applies to music as well. New songs are played on radio well in advance of the CD's release date. You won't find the CD in the stores but you can always find an advance promo copy illegally available on the internet.

Wait, because a radio station gets to debut a song, you have the right to pirate it immediately?

[Grey]

Wait, because a radio station gets to debut a song, you have the right to pirate it immediately?

No. I wasn't speaking for myself. I was just commenting on the advance copies that seem to spread rather quickly, and am wondering if people might more willing to purchase music if it was actually available in stores at the time they wanted it.

[ShaggE]

Wait, because a radio station gets to debut a song, you have the right to pirate it immediately?

I was wondering, what's the general concensus about abandonware around Telltale? I've always wanted to get an opinion straight from the horse's mouth (sorry for the unflattering catchphrase lol), but I've never convinced any developers to give an interview.

[Jake]

Given that the term "Abandonware" can to one person mean "A 25 year old game that only runs on some embedded circuit that hasn't been manufactured in a decade and would actually crumble to dust if left out in polluted 21st century air," and to another can mean "An old game I want to play so I'll just use a term other than 'pirating it' so I can feel slightly better about myself," I'm sure opinions are mixed.

[tabacco]

A good example are the old Apogee games, like Commander Keen, and so forth. They're a staple of abandonware sites, and yet they're all still available in demo form for sale from 3d realms:
http://www.3drealms.com/downloads.html

[ShaggE]

By "abandonware", I mean a game that can no longer be purchased through legit means, unless some store just happens to have a copy in a bargain bin underneath all the copies of Superman 64 and Celebrity Deathmatch, and is no longer supported or profitable to the company.

3D Realms, of course, rarely stops sales of their titles, since us Apogee fans are rabid collectors :P

Anyway, to the meat of my post: I'm pro-abandonware, IF the game or app falls under the above definition. But as tabacco says, most abandonware sites, whether unknowingly or purposefully, tend to have a few warez titles mixed in.

I find that a good solution is to contact the companies in question (if they still exist), and just plain ask if they mind. I've found that more oft