Graphic/video card?

[Avistew]

Okay, I've been delaying it for a long time, but with Sam&Max 3 coming out, it's getting more pressing.
Plus there seem to be a lot of people on the forums right now, so... More chance someone can help me I guess!

First, background: when I bought my desktop computer (so that I could play Monkey island), I also bought a video card because the one included only met the minimum requirements.
When I tried to install it I realised it wasn't compatible. I looked into it and there are apparently lots of different cards that connect differently to your computer, and different sizes as well (the one I got simply didn't fit inside my computer. It was too big).

I've already bought one card I can't use. Since then I've been too terrified of buying a wrong one again. How do I know which I can get? I have no clue at all. I know lots of people here know about computers so I'm hoping you might help me. the only thing I know to do is build one from the parts, but I've never had to select the parts myself so I'm lost on that one.

Any help is appreciated. Feel free to ask questions, but be aware you'll probably have to explain me how I can get the information you're asking for.

Thanks

[OzzieMonkey]

Well, what's your budget on a video card? Obviously budget determines a lot.
Also, how many watts is your power supply, do you have a pci, agp or pci express slot in your motherboard? The size of your case may be another factor we need to consider.

[Avistew]

Well, what's your budget on a video card? Obviously budget determines a lot.

I'm not sure. It depends :P I want a good graphic card, so my budget is whatever that will cost. I'm more concerned about knowing which type will be compatible with my computer. Then I'll start looking for one, making sure it follows the requirements.

Also, how many watts is your power supply

You mean from the wall, right? I live in Canada, so however many watts are available there.

do you have a pci, agp or pci express slot in your motherboard?

That's one of the things I don't know how to check. I've looked at it but I can't tell, I was wondering if there was a way to know from inside the computer. You know, asking it to tell me or something.

The size of your case may be another factor we need to consider.

I can measure it. It's a horizontal one, standard from what I can tell. If you need specific measurements I can take them.

[OzzieMonkey]

I'm not sure. It depends :P I want a good graphic card, so my budget is whatever that will cost. I'm more concerned about knowing which type will be compatible with my computer. Then I'll start looking for one, making sure it follows the requirements.



You mean from the wall, right? I live in Canada, so however many watts are available there.



That's one of the things I don't know how to check. I've looked at it but I can't tell, I was wondering if there was a way to know from inside the computer. You know, asking it to tell me or something.



I can measure it. It's a horizontal one, standard from what I can tell. If you need specific measurements I can take them.

Okay, well the latest graphics cards available are the ATI Radeon HD 5970 (I think) and the Nvidia GTX 295 (i think).

The ATI card needs a very powerful computer to run, and from what you're telling me, that may not be the card for you.

When I say the power supply, I mean the big block-like thing inside your computer. It should say on it how many watts the power supply is.

Now, I think it would be a good idea to tell us your measurements, but I think that part will have to be left to someone more computer savvy than I am.


As far as I know, you can't get your computer to tell you what kind of slot you have in your computer. There are distinct differences between the different ones, but again I wont be the one to explain.

[Avistew]

Now, I think it would be a good idea to tell us your measurements.

No, no! This is all going too fast! :p

I can't get my computer to tell me about the power supply thing either? I have to open it and look?

[OzzieMonkey]

No, no! This is all going too fast! :p

I can't get my computer to tell me about the power supply thing either? I have to open it and look?

Yep, that's what I'm saying. That's the only way you're gonna know. Maybe you could show us a photo of the inside of your computer?

[Avistew]

Sure, I'll go take pictures.

EDIT: Okay. I took some pictures.

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7630/img0535tp.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8728/img0537l.jpg

Tell me if you need different ones.

(For some reason the second one is all small... Hope it's still big enough)

Also, 240w (Although you can see that in one of the pics). And I haven't found something to measure with yet.

[OzzieMonkey]

Sure, I'll go take pictures.

EDIT: Okay. I took some pictures.

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7630/img0535tp.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8728/img0537l.jpg

Tell me if you need different ones.

(For some reason the second one is all small... Hope it's still big enough)

Also, 240w (Although you can see that in one of the pics). And I haven't found something to measure with yet.

Well, looks like a video card isn't the only thing you'll need upgrading. Your power supply seems quite old, and won't be able to handle any of the recent graphics cards.Sorry!

Btw, you seem to have a PCI-Express slot, so that means you should be able to use a good graphics card.

[Avistew]

I had no idea a power supply could be upgraded. I still don't understand what it's about, is it converting the electricity it gets through the plug or something?

So 240w isn't enough, eh? What would I need if, say, I wanted to run Tales on the highest quality?

I also want to buy more RAM but that shouldn't be a problem since there is room left.

Good news about the PCI-Express thing, although if I still can't use the cards because of the power supply thing, that's not that helpful :S

Argh, I have no idea these things were so complicated -_-' I should stick to console, at least you don't need to change their components constantly >.>

[Wapcaplet]

Your PCI Express slot (the black one) looks like it may be in line with your processor, so a long card won't fit in your case. I also agree that a 240 watt power supply won't handle anything but the lowest-end cards out today. The minimum PSU for an NVIDIA 9600GSO, for example, is a 350 watt one.

[OzzieMonkey]

I had no idea a power supply could be upgraded. I still don't understand what it's about, is it converting the electricity it gets through the plug or something?

So 240w isn't enough, eh? What would I need if, say, I wanted to run Tales on the highest quality?

I also want to buy more RAM but that shouldn't be a problem since there is room left.

Good news about the PCI-Express thing, although if I still can't use the cards because of the power supply thing, that's not that helpful :S

Argh, I have no idea these things were so complicated -_-' I should stick to console, at least you don't need to change their components constantly >.>

Well, its all about the power the card uses from the power supply to run.
Most cards need 400w or more to run. I have a 550w power supply, so you could get that, which could run an Nvidia GTX 260 pretty well. Or if you don't want to spend that much, you could get the ATI Radeon HD 4850, which is actually what I'm waiting for in the mail. There is a vid on youtube that shows Tales running maxed at 1680x1050 smooth as butter with this card.

[Avistew]

Okay, so what do you suggest I trade it for? How many watts? Telltale games are the only games I play on the computer so I just want to be able to play these one something higher than 1. Even if I can't quite get it the whole way up.

EDIT: Ozzie > Thanks, I'll take a look.

[Avistew]

Sorry for the double post, but I have a question:

if I buy a new power supply, do I run the risk of getting the wrong size, like with the video card, or are they all absolutely the same and fitting in every desktop computer?

[OzzieMonkey]

Sorry for the double post, but I have a question:

if I buy a new power supply, do I run the risk of getting the wrong size, like with the video card, or are they all absolutely the same and fitting in every desktop computer?

Yeah, its the same situation. I hate to say it, but you might be looking at getting a new case, as well. Heck, you might as well get a new computer. Also, would you mind telling me what CPU you have?

[Avistew]

I don't know what a CPU is.

Also, I only just bought the computer to play Tales. I can't justify getting a new one until a couple of years or so. These things cost a lot and it's only for playing telltale games... If I buy a new one every game or Season, that's one expensive game I'll be buying!

*sigh* I'm guessing I'll just have to see if I can play Sam&Max, and if I can't, well I'll play it in a couple of years when I have a better computer. I'm okay with buying some parts, but replacing the whole thing when I've only used it for Tales? I don't think so.

[OzzieMonkey]

I don't know what a CPU is.

Also, I only just bought the computer to play Tales. I can't justify getting a new one until a couple of years or so. These things cost a lot and it's only for playing telltale games... If I buy a new one every game or Season, that's one expensive game I'll be buying!

*sigh* I'm guessing I'll just have to see if I can play Sam&Max, and if I can't, well I'll play it in a couple of years when I have a better computer. I'm okay with buying some parts, but replacing the whole thing when I've only used it for Tales? I don't think so.

Well, the CPU is your central processing unit, which is the part of the computer which processes everything-memory, video card,etc.

Your case just seems to be too small to fit a large video card. The power supply, on the hand, is a different story. My 550w power supply is not very big, but nonetheless, you'll need a new case. So, maybe you might be able to tell me what your CPU is? Is it an Intel, AMD?

[Wapcaplet]

It might help us if you can run dxdiag and attach a report of your computer's components.

Follow DjNDB's instructions in this post (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=249085&postcount=4) to learn how to do it.

[OzzieMonkey]

It might help us if you can run dxdiag and attach a report of your computer's components.

Follow DjNDB's instructions in this post (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=249085&postcount=4) to learn how to do it.

Dang, why didn't I think of that. You flippin genious!

[Avistew]

Okay, well let me plug everything back in and I'll do that.

EDIT: I took another picture and thought I'd share it while the computer is powering up.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5577/img0540i.jpg

My power supply is a totally weird shape! Is that normal? Will that make it harder to find one the right shape?

EDIT2: added the file.

[OzzieMonkey]

Okay, well let me plug everything back in and I'll do that.

EDIT: I took another picture and thought I'd share it while the computer is powering up.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5577/img0540i.jpg

My power supply is a totally weird shape! Is that normal? Will that make it harder to find one the right shape?

EDIT2: added the file.

Well, your CPU is definitely quite old, you need to get an Intel Dual Core CPU of at least 2ghz. I'm not sure about the power supply, though.

[Wapcaplet]

I think you may be able to play with your current CPU. A Pentium 4 3.6GHz should still be able to handle S&M. The recommended processor for ToMI was a Pentium 4 3.0GHz. I don't think the system requirements for Devil's Playhouse have been announced yet, though.

Your power supply is a big problem, though. That's a very nonstandard shape -- I suspect that only HP makes a replacement that will fit your computer case. And I don't think they make replacements with a heftier wattage.

You might be able to use a low-power, low-profile graphics card. Do you have a computer or electronics store nearby with a liberal return policy?

[Avistew]

There are too many things to change for a computer I only use for telltale games. At this rate, it would be cheaper to buy a PS3 to play the game on it, and at least there would be other games I'd be interested in, which isn't the case for computer games.

I'll talk about it with my husband but I don't think we'll upgrade anything at all if it all needs to be replaced. I guess we'll just live a few years behind. When our current computer breaks down or something and needs to be replaced, we'll go for one that can play games better. Or maybe we'll switch to playing the console versions of the games... They're looking less and less like computer games and more and more like console ports anyways.

Thanks for your help, everyone :) It's great how helpful people are here, and without you I would probably have looked up a graphic card and bought it without knowing I couldn't use it because of my power supply/CPU. So you're saving me a lot of trouble.

[OzzieMonkey]

I think you may be able to play with your current CPU. A Pentium 4 3.6GHz should still be able to handle S&M. The recommended processor for ToMI was a Pentium 4 3.0GHz. I don't think the system requirements for Devil's Playhouse have been announced yet, though.

Your power supply is a big problem, though. That's a very nonstandard shape -- I suspect that only HP makes a replacement that will fit your computer case. And I don't think they make replacements with a heftier wattage.

You might be able to use a low-power, low-profile graphics card. Do you have a computer or electronics store nearby with a liberal return policy?

Yeah, that's thing with an old CPU like that. It would bottleneck the games if you have a newer graphics card. Oh, and btw, the System requirements for S&M are the Same as Tales (At the bottom of the Devil's Playhouse page).

[Avistew]

I don't have a computer or electronic store nearby period. I get all that stuff from online orders. I had to go to the nearest town to buy the computer and it cost me 100 dollars just for the trip. And I had to spend the night there because there is only one bus a day. I'd rather not do that just for a part, especially one that I might have to return.

Good news if I can still play S&M, I hope I'll be able to play a few more games after that. Although this whole thing makes me frustrated with computers in general. Why don't they have standardised stuff? It's like they're making it hard on purpose.

[Wapcaplet]

Yeah, that's thing with an old CPU like that. It would bottleneck the games if you have a newer graphics card. Oh, and btw, the System requirements for S&M are the Same as Tales (At the bottom of the Devil's Playhouse page).
Ah, good eye. I missed that.

It's possible it might bottleneck the card, but if she bought, for example, a low-power ATI 4550, I think that would be able to handle the game without overloading the CPU and without needing to replace her power supply. But I've never used any of ATI's low-power cards, so I can't speak from experience (hence my question about whether her local stores would take back a graphics card purchase without a restocking fee).

[OzzieMonkey]

Ah, good eye. I missed that.

It's possible it might bottleneck the card, but if she bought, for example, a low-power ATI 4550, I think that would be able to handle the game without overloading the CPU and without needing to replace her power supply. But I've never used any of ATI's low-power cards, so I can't speak from experience (hence my question about whether her local stores would take back a graphics card purchase without a restocking fee).

Yeah, but a 240w power supply still seems very low to me, even for a low power card. How much wattage do you need for a low powered 4550?

[Wapcaplet]

Although this whole thing makes me frustrated with computers in general. Why don't they have standardised stuff? It's like they're making it hard on purpose.
Most computer stuff is standardized. The problem is that standards change. ;)

In addition, manufactures like Dell and HP will often use custom, nonstandard parts -- especially on "slim-line" computers that are not designed to be upgraded. I build all of my systems myself, and I've come to detest working with computers like yours. They're basically disposable after a few years.

[Wapcaplet]

Yeah, but a 240w power supply still seems very low to me, even for a low power card. How much wattage do you need for a low powered 4550?
25 watts (http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-4000/hd-4550/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-4550-overview.aspx). The 4600 series uses 75 watts (http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-4000/hd-4600/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-4600-overview.aspx).

[OzzieMonkey]

25 watts (http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-4000/hd-4550/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-4550-overview.aspx). The 4600 uses 75 watts (http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-4000/hd-4600/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-4600-overview.aspx).

I mean, how much do you need in your power supply to run it?
EDIT: I checked out the links, and you actually need 300w power supply for the 4550, and 400w for the 4650.

[Wapcaplet]

I mean, how much do you need in your power supply to run it?
300W for the 4550, according to ATI, but that's a recommended value and not a minimum one. Her Pentium 4 is a power hog, though. I think it might work, but it would be a close call.

[Avistew]

I'll see if I want to risk it, then. How much better would that make my graphics?

[OzzieMonkey]

I'll see if I want to risk it, then. How much better would that make my graphics?

Well, do you actually have a graphics card in your pc? By the looks of things in the photos you've shown, its doesn't look like it. Anyway, you should be able to play the game quite well.

[Avistew]

No, I only have the included video card. I bought a card to put in the computer when I bought the computer but as I said, unaware that there were so many restrictions, I just thought getting a PC one would make sure it was compatible.
When I tried to put it in I realised the problem (and from what you've been telling me it probably wouldn't have worked anyways), but since I don't have a store I wanted to order a new card and, well, was pretty sure I'd get the wrong one if I didn't get some good advice. I didn't know who to ask at the time.

The only thing I want is to be able to keep playing the new games. It's okay if it's on the lowest settings. I wanted to buy a card to get some "advance", you know, not have to worry about upgrading for a while.

[OzzieMonkey]

No, I only have the included video card. I bought a card to put in the computer when I bought the computer but as I said, unaware that there were so many restrictions, I just thought getting a PC one would make sure it was compatible.
When I tried to put it in I realised the problem (and from what you've been telling me it probably wouldn't have worked anyways), but since I don't have a store I wanted to order a new card and, well, was pretty sure I'd get the wrong one if I didn't get some good advice. I didn't know who to ask at the time.

The only thing I want is to be able to keep playing the new games. It's okay if it's on the lowest settings. I wanted to buy a card to get some "advance", you know, not have to worry about upgrading for a while.

Well, apparently the 4550 can play Tales at the highest quality setting.

[Avistew]

Well, apparently the 4550 can play Tales at the highest quality setting.

Oh. I don't even need something THAT good.

Wait no, the system requirements should be higher than they are with Monkey Island. Should be 256mb video card, 1gb of RAM. Everything else will be the same though.

Does that change whether I can play Devil's Playhouse? Can you tell from my zip file?

[OzzieMonkey]

Oh. I don't even need something THAT good.



Does that change whether I can play Devil's Playhouse? Can you tell from my zip file?

It shouldn't be that much of a change, so yeah, you should be able to run it fine.

[Avistew]

So, the ATI 4550 I found was too big. I looked on ebay and found this (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ATI-RADEON-x1300-256MB-PCI-DVI-TV-OUT-SFF-LOW-PROFILE_W0QQitemZ380194335423QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPC C_Video_TV_Cards?hash=item5885592abf) but it doesn't seem to say the watts it uses (since it's important in my case).
The other low profile cards (that's apparently was cards made for horizontal cases are called) seem to be more like 128MB, which doesn't sound like a lot.

[OzzieMonkey]

So, the ATI 4550 I found was too big. I looked on ebay and found this (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ATI-RADEON-x1300-256MB-PCI-DVI-TV-OUT-SFF-LOW-PROFILE_W0QQitemZ380194335423QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPC C_Video_TV_Cards?hash=item5885592abf) but it doesn't seem to say the watts it uses (since it's important in my case).
The other low profile cards (that's apparently was cards made for horizontal cases are called) seem to be more like 128MB, which doesn't sound like a lot.

Um, yeah, that card is probably well over 10 years old. That's not gonna do the job.

[Avistew]

Thanks. I'll keep looking. And try to get a lover who's good with computers or something. I mean, at least he could go get the right stuff in person and even install it himself (not that it's very hard to do).

[OzzieMonkey]

Thanks. I'll keep looking. And try to get a lover who's good with computers or something. I mean, at least he could go get the right stuff in person and even install it himself (not that it's very hard to do).

Yeah, I wish you luck. If worse comes to worse, TigerDirect have already-built pcs that are really well specced that you can get for under 500 bucks.

[Avistew]

If worse comes to worse, TigerDirect have already-built pcs that are really well specced that you can get for under 500 bucks.

...
There are PCs that cost more than 500 bucks?
Oh my.

I have a budget of 50 bucks per month (for both my husband and me, not each) for entertainment (includes books, games, movies, eating out, etc).
So 500 bucks means a year... Or more. Not sure I'd be able to afford it :S

Better start saving up I guess :P

EDIT: I didn't mean to sound cheap. I'm okay with saving up for a year or more. I just want to make sure whatever I'm buying will be used for longer than it took me to save up for it.

[DjNDB]

I only just bought the computer to play Tales. I can't justify getting a new one until a couple of years or so.

Wait a second. The computer I see in the dxdiag is like 6 years old technology wise. You bought that recently?

There is actually a very good chance that the Radeon 4550 will work with your 240W Power supply.

There are some nice specs (http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11948_na/11948_na.html) of that system. Your's is the "Small Form Factor" one.
It lists some optional graphics cards, e.g. the X300 SE which should need about 30 watt max too.

In any case you should measure the physical space available for the graphics card.

For the PCI Express x16 slot the specs say 1 low-profile (2.5"), length (6.6")
Though it looks plausible, it would be safer to measure the length (red), because it looks a little short. Therefore besides being low profile take a good look at the length of graphics cards you consider to buy.

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/2183/img0535tpline.jpg

I think one of these cards could fit:
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4550 512MB (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102819&nm_mc=OTC-sho6b0tCA&cm_mmc=OTC-sho6b0tCA-_-Video+Cards-_-Sapphire+Tech-_-14102819)
MSI Radeon HD 4550 1GB (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127458&cm_re=4550-_-14-127-458-_-Product)

[Wapcaplet]

I'd agree with DjNDB's recommendations, and Newegg should be pretty good about returns in case the card doesn't fit.

Devil's Playhouse will require 256MB of video RAM, so either card has enough memory to handle it.

EDIT: Will corrected himself (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=270362&postcount=27) -- you only need 128MB of Video RAM for Season 3.

[Avistew]

Thanks! I'll measure that as soon as my husband isn't using it.

Yes, we bought it recently, but it's not new, either. I (almost) never buy new electronics, because the construction is one of the most polluting part (I added almost, because I bought my mp3 player new, but it's a crank mp3 player so it doesn't require electricity. So I decided it was worth it).

I went to the store after writing down all the requirements and asked for a computer that met all of these and could be upgraded to better. I guess the one I got wasn't ideal if the components are six years old. Yikes. On the other hand, I'm glad they're getting more use. I'm always so sad about computers. My TV in France was over 25 years old and worked perfectly (and since it was a PAL, if I may say, the image looked much better than HD does here on NTSC). My parents' washing machine was older than me and worked fine. My best friend's car was at least 30.
But computers, it seems you need to buy a new one every other year or so :S

Anyway, next time I'll try buying parts, I think. It will take some research but in the end I'll get exactly what I want, which is always better than getting a whole thing that might be lacking something you want, and worse have something you don't need.

Anyway, I'll measure carefully and checked the models you mentioned. Thanks a lot guys. I know I'm computer illiterate, no, scratch that, computer analphabetic. I can really appreciate how patient you are.

[taumel]

Just wanted to say that a 4550 isn't a screamer. Afterall it has only a 64bit memory interface, whilst the 4650 doubles that which makes a huge difference. If possible you should go for a 4650.

Watt wise this shouldn't be a problem as they, if i rememer correctly, peak around 65 Watt (PCI-E supports 75 Watt). You also shouldn't get a card with less than 512MB. The length of the cards depends on the vendor often due to their weird heatsink designs. Club3D, Diamond, MSI cards were one of the shorter ones.

You definately should measure the space and ask/look this up before but i suspect that if choosing the right one it should fit in. Another question would be if the fan design of the computer is good enough getting the heat out. Hard to say as there is not this much space but if the airflow is well designed then it might work. If you're knowing your system, can't you give the vendor a call/email him?!

It's easy finding this out when you can hold your hand into the sytem whilst it's running but so...

[Wapcaplet]

We're worried about her 240W PSU, which can't be replaced because of its unusual shape. The recommended PSU for the 4600 series is a 400W.

[Avistew]

So, for future reference, next computer I get, I should check:

- graphic card
- power supply
- CPU
- bigger case
- get parts and put them together rather than get something already made

Anything else? Simply from the "I want to be able to play telltale games" angle.

[taumel]

For gfx cards you mainly have to care about what the 12V rails deliver. This normally can be looked up in the manual or on the power supply. I've seen good 350W power supplies with 3850/4850 cards running intensive 3d stuff without any problems for hours where some noname or bad layed out 400/450 Watt power supplies failed.

As it's HP i would suspect that they layed out the system in a way that PCI-E also can deliver the specified 75 Watt. It also doesn't look as there are a lot of other things inside, moreover in practice you're also not running with peak performance all the time.

Personally i would dare it, measuring the space, looking up a short card and if i'm still suspicious giving the vendor a call.

[Wapcaplet]

So, for future reference, next computer I get, I should check:

- graphic card
- power supply
- CPU
- bigger case
- get parts and put them together rather than get something already made

Anything else? Simply from the "I want to be able to play telltale games" angle.
Other than system memory, I think that pretty much covers it.

[taumel]

And for a well balanced gaming system you nowadays should preferable spend more money on the gfx card and less on the CPU whilst going with a mainstream memory configuration.

[Avistew]

Other than system memory, I think that pretty much covers it.

Is "system memory" the same as RAM?

[Wapcaplet]

Is "system memory" the same as RAM?
Yes. (I was wondering whether to say "RAM" or "memory" and settled with "system memory". Oh well.)

[Ribs]

Okay - I want to pop in with a question. My computer would be great - if the guy at best buy didn't trick me into thinking a 9100 Nvidia is better than an 8600. Now I have to buy and install another video card seperately. I'm totally fine with that, but I AM REALLY AFRAID TO TOUCH THE INSIDE OF THE COMPTUER! IT COULD BREAK OR SOMETHING!

[Avistew]

I'm totally fine with that, but I AM REALLY AFRAID TO TOUCH THE INSIDE OF THE COMPTUER! IT COULD BREAK OR SOMETHING!

If you avoid dropping hammers and coffee inside, it should be fine. Make sure you watch a video of someone doing it first so you know what you're supposed to do.

Yes. (I was wondering whether to say "RAM" or "memory" and settled with "system memory". Oh well.)

Sorry :D I guess I'm not very consistent in what words I do or don't know.
RAM is standardised though, right? I don't have to worry about buying the right size and everything? Now I'm getting paranoid about things like that lol. Although it's probably a good thing since t's better than buying something I can't even use.
... Does RAM use watts too? If I wanted to upgrade it on my current computer (which I've been wanting to do as well), would it be possible or would that require a Power Supply change too?

Also, I went and measured it, 3 inches tall for the metallic thing that you remove when you put the card in (sorry I'm not sure what it's called), and 7 inches of room for the card itself (although only a portion of it is the PCI slot, but I'm assuming that's normal and that the card extends beyond just the slot).

[taumel]

Okay - I want to pop in with a question. My computer would be great - if the guy at best buy didn't trick me into thinking a 9100 Nvidia is better than an 8600. Now I have to buy and install another video card seperately. I'm totally fine with that, but I AM REALLY AFRAID TO TOUCH THE INSIDE OF THE COMPTUER! IT COULD BREAK OR SOMETHING!
Not that i read a question but it's a commom problem as nVIDIA is rebranding their cards since quite some time. Not that i dislike nVIDIA but that's just bad.

Maybe you could ask a friend giving you a hand or maybe there is a computer store around where you could ask nicely and taking the computer with you? I'm sure you can also find some videos via google (quick try, searched for "how to install a graphics card on youtube"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9x097QRXeA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9nIVW5W3K4&feature=related
:

[Wapcaplet]

RAM is standardised though, right? I don't have to worry about buying the right size and everything? Now I'm getting paranoid about things like that lol. Although it's probably a good thing since t's better than buying something I can't even use.
If you buy separate components for a new computer, you will need to check if the RAM matches it. For example, there are basically two types of desktop RAM right now: DDR2 (older) and DDR3 (newer). Some motherboards only support DDR3, while some motherboards support both DDR2 and DDR3, and some older ones will only support DDR2.

... Does RAM use watts too? If I wanted to upgrade it on my current computer (which I've been wanting to do as well), would it be possible or would that require a Power Supply change too?
Everything uses power, but RAM doesn't use enough to make a difference in your power supply selection. The graphic card is really the only component that can change your PSU wattage needs.

Also, I went and measured it, 3 inches tall for the metallic thing that you remove when you put the card in (sorry I'm not sure what it's called), and 7 inches of room for the card itself (although only a portion of it is the PCI slot, but I'm assuming that's normal and that the card extends beyond just the slot).
Yeah, the card will go beyond, but the smaller cards won't go beyond by that much. Sounds like the cards linked above should fit.

[DjNDB]

Personally i would dare it, measuring the space, looking up a short card and if i'm still suspicious giving the vendor a call.

I also think that a 4650 could work if the other components don't require too much. Combining information from the specs and your dxdiag you should have a Pentium 4 560, which takes 115W max. The other components (Mainboard,Memory,HDD,...) maybe take 50-60W which would leave 65-75W for a graphics card.
That's just an educated guess though and I would prefer to know the power usage of the system at full cpu load.

You don't happen to have something like this, avistew?
Based on the consumption we could roughly estimate how much more the power supply could deliver.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2129/125319bb00fbeps400.jpg

If it's to high, and since there might not be a better replacement Power Supply, it could also be an crazy option to buy a more energy efficient CPU to make more room for the graphics card. I don't know much about Intel CPUs though to tell if the 775 Socket on your Mainboard and its BIOS get along with recent models.

[DjNDB]

Yes. (I was wondering whether to say "RAM" or "memory" and settled with "system memory". Oh well.)

That would have been the perfect opportunity to post this video: Memory IS RAM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiRxkFWb_3o)
Although it would be a rude answer, of course.

[Avistew]

You don't happen to have something like this, avistew?

No, but my inlaws might. I'll make sure to ask them.
You just plug the computer in it and look at the numbers that appear? That looks simple enough even for me.

[Fishstick_Kitty]

Are my eyes a bit off tonight or am I really seeing 3 bulging/leaking capacitors? :eek:

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff67/FishStickKitty/PSU-ttg.jpg

[Wapcaplet]

Are my eyes a bit off tonight or am I really seeing 3 bulging/leaking capacitors? :eek:
It looks like that may be how the capacitors are colored all along the side. I don't think that orange/red color is oozing out.

[Fishstick_Kitty]

Whew, thanks! :o *wipes glasses*

[Ribs]

Oh my god, is it literally as simple as 'Take off cover, screw in, put cover on, install'?

[Wapcaplet]

Oh my god, is it literally as simple as 'Take off cover, screw in, put cover on, install'?
Yeah, basically. Just make sure you don't loosen any other cables and you'll be fine.

(Had that happen once or twice -- drove me crazy trying to find the problem.)

[DjNDB]

Oh my god, is it literally as simple as 'Take off cover, screw in, put cover on, install'?

It's also a good idea to uninstall the old video drivers and related software first.

[Leak]

Yeah, basically. Just make sure you don't loosen any other cables and you'll be fine.
Also

- don't drop any screwdrivers in there while working
- make sure you got rid of any static buildup before going to work
- don't screw the mainboard directly to the backplate without spacers
- don't force the power cables in in the wrong orientation (needs LOADS of force, though, but people have managed anyhow)
- don't forget putting thermal grease between the CPU and it's heatsink

Well, that's all I can currently think off from the top of my head...

(Oh, and forget about water cooling that sucker, it's more hassle than it's worth - been there, done that, still have the bulky radiator standing around as a memento never to do it again... and yes, I've been building/upgrading computers for almost two decades now...)

np: Iso 68 - Until Recalled (Remix) (Contriva - 8 Eyes ('96 - '99) Remixes)

[Ribs]

- don't screw the mainboard directly to the backplate without spacers
- don't forget putting thermal grease between the CPU and it's heatsink


whut

[Wapcaplet]

whut
Heh, you don't have to worry about things like that unless you're building your entire system yourself. Dropping in a new graphics card doesn't involve those precautions.

The "don't lose a screw" one is valid, and don't go scuffing your feet on shag carpeting before opening your case, either. :)

[Leak]

The "don't lose a screw" one is valid, and don't go scuffing your feet on shag carpeting before opening your case, either. :)
Hey, the "don't drop the screwdriver in there" is also very relevant when you're swapping graphics cards, at least when you put the case on the side for easier access... :p

np: Bizzy B & Equinox - The Brain Crew V.I.P. (Bizzy B - Retrospective)

[Wapcaplet]

Hey, the "don't drop the screwdriver in there" is also very relevant when you're swapping graphics cards, at least when you put the case on the side for easier access... :p
That's what I meant by "valid" -- dropping screws is something to watch out for when changing graphics cards. :)

[Ribs]

Shoot, where am I going to put my molten lava then?

[taumel]

It's also a good idea to uninstall the old video drivers and related software first.
Although that's more an issue of earlier days. You can't do something wrong by doing so but it's not as necessary as it was a few years ago.

[OzzieMonkey]

Well, I can tell you some of my experiences with Tales. It has taken 4 video card upgrades (no joke) for Tales to finally work without lag. Luckily I've just gotten profit off all of them anyway, so no money is lost. I know the game isn't supposed to be graphically demanding, but seriously, its like trying to run Crysis! Anyway, the only video card that i have seen living proof of working fine is the 4850 from ATI. I'm running it windowed, coz full screen has mouse lag, but yeah I can play it maxed without problems. So I would try and go for that card. Btw, Tales was not the only game I had mouse lag. Ghost Pirates had it too.

[taumel]

I somehow enjoy playing adventures on old computers, played Sam&Max S1 for instance on a Geforce 3 and Tales of Moneky Island on a 3850. I did not experience any problems with the mouse there, beside of the missing point&click of course. :O)

Whilst TOMI looked better at high settings, especially depth of field added to the atmosphere, it also isn't really worth all the trouble. I think you can enjoy the game on lower settings as well. I also would agree that for the quality the engine outputs, it seemed a little bit demanding.

Anyway, i can be a gfx whore but this strongly depends on the type of game. In adventures i'm primary looking for something different.

[DjNDB]

Anyway, the only video card that i have seen living proof of working fine is the 4850 from ATI. I'm running it windowed, coz full screen has mouse lag, but yeah I can play it maxed without problems.

What resolution are you running at?
What exact Manufacturer/model is your card?
I have this one (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2999) and i am Running ToMI at 1920x1200, fullscreen, Quality 9 with 8x Box AA, 16x AF, No Catalyst A.I., Mipmap High Quality, Vertical Refresh on, Adaptive AA off, No Triple Buffering.

I notice no lag whatsoever in mouse movement or graphics.
In normal scenes like running around the Dock at Flotsam or Spinner Cay i have ~55-60fps. In the demanding opening scene of Screaming Narwhal it occasionally shortly drops to 45fps, still without any obvious lag.
It's even better when i just use the graphics cards default settings, but i chose these based on a compromise between looks and performance.

[OzzieMonkey]

What resolution are you running at?
What exact Manufacturer/model is your card?
I have this one (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2999) and i am Running ToMI at 1920x1200, fullscreen, Quality 9 with 8x Box AA, 16x AF, No Catalyst A.I., Mipmap High Quality, Vertical Refresh on, Adaptive AA off, No Triple Buffering.

I notice no lag whatsoever in mouse movement or graphics.
In normal scenes like running around the Dock at Flotsam or Spinner Cay i have ~55-60fps. In the demanding opening scene of Screaming Narwhal it occasionally shortly drops to 45fps, still without any obvious lag.
It's even better when i just use the graphics cards default settings, but i chose these based on a compromise between looks and performance.

Well, I'm running the game at 1280x720 windowed. It runs fine with that. My card is the Powercolor version. i have a 19 inch monitor, 4 gigs of ram, and an intel Core2Duo 3ghz CPU.

[DjNDB]

Well, I'm running the game at 1280x720 windowed. It runs fine with that. My card is the Powercolor version. i have a 19 inch monitor, 4 gigs of ram, and an intel Core2Duo 3ghz CPU.

They have different 4850 models (http://www.powercolor.com/Global/products_layer_3.asp?ModelID=560). Does yours have 512MB or 1GB Memory?

[OzzieMonkey]

They have different 4850 models (http://www.powercolor.com/Global/products_layer_3.asp?ModelID=560). Does yours have 512MB or 1GB Memory?

Mine is 1GB of DDR3 memory.

[DjNDB]

Mine is 1GB of DDR3 memory.

I can't really figure out why your mouse lags in Full screen then. Is it extremely strong or just barely noticeable?

[OzzieMonkey]

I can't really figure out why your mouse lags in Full screen then. Is it extremely strong or just barely noticeable?

its quite draggy. It just doesnt feel fluid.
EDIT: Anyways, I tried the game at 1600x900 screen resolution windowed, and it works fine at the highest quality setting. I actually prefer windowed mode when playing games, as it allows me to do other things while playing, or skip credits that are otherwise unskipable. Enough of my computer issues, we should be focusing on helping Avistew find the right video card.

[Avistew]

You don't happen to have something like this, avistew?
Based on the consumption we could roughly estimate how much more the power supply could deliver.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/2129/125319bb00fbeps400.jpg

Okay, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to try and do special stuff while using it. It shows 70 watts right now, and the highest it's been since I started the computer was 161. Should I do something in particular and see how high it gets or is that enough information already?

[MusicallyInspired]

Just to continue the conversation about video cards and wattage, I have an ATI AGP X1650 512MB video card and it needs a 500w power supply. I only have 450w and my computer is starting to wig out as a result (USB ports fail quite often, so much so that I'm forced to take the whole card out and use my onboard video just to get things done!). So I can't see how a newer card is going to work on a 240w power supply.

[Avistew]

Well I have zero video card right now. It's not like I need the newest one, I'm sure an oldish one would do fine.

[MusicallyInspired]

My card is from 2005-2006 and it barely runs TMI smoothly on a mid-setting. That might be beause it's AGP, though, and not PCI-E.

Also:

If you buy separate components for a new computer, you will need to check if the RAM matches it. For example, there are basically two types of desktop RAM right now: DDR2 (older) and DDR3 (newer). Some motherboards only support DDR3, while some motherboards support both DDR2 and DDR3, and some older ones will only support DDR2.

Don't confuse Desktop memory with Laptop memory. Laptop memory is smaller.

[Avistew]

My card is from 2005-2006 and it barely runs TMI smoothly on a mid-setting. That might be beause it's AGP, though, and not PCI-E.

I'm only really concerned with being able to play the Devil's Playhouse on level 1. Mid-setting TMI is much higher than I'd aim for.

Don't confuse Desktop memory with Laptop memory. Laptop memory is smaller.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Although I'm on a laptop right now and usually post from one, I play from a desktop computer, but I'll make sure I don't get the laptop type accidentally.

[taumel]

@MusicallyInspired
PCIe doesn't help you anything from the advantages of the interface. It just builds the basis for getting more modern and so faster cards but if you can get yourself a good (350W+XW) power supply and an ATI 3850, this will enable you playing S&MS3E1 at highest settings with a standard resolution like for instance 1024x768 and nice framerates. Maybe TTG will optimize their engine in the future as well so that the entry level will decrease again. If you need a lot more performance than that, it's time to say goodbye to your AGP system.

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm the one with the AGP system not her. And I know my computer is far out of date. That's why I bought a 360 and a PS3.

[Friar]

I'm only really concerned with being able to play the Devil's Playhouse on level 1. Mid-setting TMI is much higher than I'd aim for.



Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Although I'm on a laptop right now and usually post from one, I play from a desktop computer, but I'll make sure I don't get the laptop type accidentally.
Why don't you try playing the demo of Sam&Max? That way, you can see if your PC supports it as is.

[Avistew]

Why don't you try playing the demo of Sam&Max? That way, you can see if your PC supports it as is.

I have the actual game and my computer cannot play it as is.

[Wapcaplet]

Well I have zero video card right now. It's not like I need the newest one, I'm sure an oldish one would do fine.
Newer cards actually tend to be more energy efficient, and since we're constrained by your power supply, that's an important factor.

Based on your power load, the ATI 4550 cards recommended above would be your best bet. I don't think your power supply could handle anything more.

[Avistew]

Thanks! So I don't need to take more measurements or anything, then?

I'll look into these cards.

[Chyron8472]

Your power supply does look weird.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8672/63336525.png


I've been looking online for a power supply of similar shape and greater output wattage, but I haven't found one yet.

[Wapcaplet]

Thanks! So I don't need to take more measurements or anything, then?
Yeah, the fact that you're already up to 161W means you don't have much power headroom. If the 4550 doesn't work, then you'll have bigger upgrade problems.

The 4350 is the only other card I could recommend, but it's almost the same card as the 4550 (slightly less powerful and it draws about 5W less power) for about the same price.

[Wapcaplet]

Your power supply does look weird.
Yeah, that's the problem. She can't just buy a replacement -- it's custom-made for HP, so there's really no way to swap it out.

[DjNDB]

Okay, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to try and do special stuff while using it. It shows 70 watts right now, and the highest it's been since I started the computer was 161. Should I do something in particular and see how high it gets or is that enough information already?

What we need is your power usage at maximum CPU load.
Download prime95 (http://www.eocfiles.com/bdc86eb1ed2989c30dcd1902e84939ae/motherboard/utilties/p95v258.zip) and run it. If you see a "welcome to gimps" window choose "just stress testing".
In the "run a torture Test" window just press ok.
Let the Test run, look at the Watts and post the maximum value. To stop it use "Test/Stop" in the Menu. Just closing the window would keep it running in the systray.

[Avistew]

Thanks! I've started it. I'll let it run for a little bit I guess?

[DjNDB]

Thanks! I've started it. I'll let it run for a little bit I guess?

It should go to max instantly.

[guitarsareboring]

Choosing a graphics card is way more complicated than it used to be!

Luckily despite being AGP and not that powerful, mine seems to handle most games just fine on a reasonable graphics setting.

[Avistew]

It should go to max instantly.

Oh, ok. It only went up to 160 that I saw, but I just checked the max ever and it is recorded as 170.

[DjNDB]

Oh, ok. It only went up to 160 that I saw, but I just checked the max ever and it is recorded as 170.

That's great. The 170 Watts is only what the PSU takes, because the efficiency is not 100% the actual components should take a bit less, something way below 150 Watts.
I would give a radeon 4550 or 4650 a try.

[Avistew]

Thanks! I'm going to try the 1GB 4550 then.

[taumel]

I'm the one with the AGP system not her. And I know my computer is far out of date. That's why I bought a 360 and a PS3.
As i wrote the 3850 is the best AGP solution out there, cheaper as a console and performing well in Sam&Max 3.

@avistew
A 4550 at least will enable you playing games like Solitaire but i wouldn't expect a lot fun out of it for more than very simple 3d games unless you're prepared for low settings, low resolutions and low framerates. That's an office and not a gaming card.

[Avistew]

128MB DirectX 8.1-compliant video card
(256MB rec.)

1GB is higher than 128MB, and even higher than 256MB. As long as I can play the Devil's Playhouse on level one, and if possible several future telltale games, it's good enough for me.

It's not like I have non-telltale computer games to play, or a need/want to play on a higher setting than 1.

[taumel]

It's your decision but as i wrote already i would go for a 4650 or a new system. Whilst it's somehow fine playing at lowest settings/quality, a game can feel completely different on at least a reasonable settings level. I would rather go into a movie, buy some books and have something to eat instead of spending the money on such a low performing card.

[Leak]

It's your decision but as i wrote already i would go for a 4650 or a new system. Whilst it's somehow fine playing at lowest settings/quality, a game can feel completely different on at least a reasonable settings level.
Also, using my favourite price comparison site the cheapest 1GB cards with the 4550 and 4650 are, what, 8 EUR apart? That's really saving only peanuts for a worse game experience...

EDIT: Also, they list just a single 4550 card with 1GB which usually is an indicator that the extra 512 MB are mostly going to waste with such a low-powered GPU...

np: Nice Nice - See Waves (Extra Wow)

[Avistew]

EDIT: Also, they list just a single 4550 card with 1GB which usually is an indicator that the extra 512 MB are mostly going to waste with such a low-powered GPU...

Then I guess I'll get the 500 something one instead? :P

I know lots of people are pretty into graphics, and I've played at friends' houses and seen the difference, but honestly as far as I'm concerned, the graphics in a game are like the type of paper in a book. As long as I can play/read and follow the story, it's good enough. I don't need it to be super-thick smooth shiny paper, it's the words I'm interested in.

[taumel]

Also, using my favourite price comparison site the cheapest 1GB cards with the 4550 and 4650 are, what, 8 EUR apart? That's really saving only peanuts for a worse game experience...

Yep, but maybe stubborn and stuttering fits together perfectly. ;O)

[Wapcaplet]

Oh, ok. It only went up to 160 that I saw, but I just checked the max ever and it is recorded as 170.
Yeah, I figured it wouldn't go much higher. And running S&M won't push your CPU to 100% for an extended period of time like Prime95 does.

[Wapcaplet]

A 4550 at least will enable you playing games like Solitaire but i wouldn't expect a lot fun out of it for more than very simple 3d games unless you're prepared for low settings, low resolutions and low framerates. That's an office and not a gaming card.
Actually, it should work OK. JedExodus got really good results with ToMI:

I've an Radeon HD 4550 which is a really cheap card to pick up these days, I play it on quality 9 at 1360x768 and it runs grand. In 1920x1080 mouse lag becomes noticeable.

If she had more wattage headroom in that power supply, I'd definitely recommend the 4650, but it looks like a 4550 will work fine for her.

[Steve2000]

When you get to the point where upgrading an aging machine is more expensive than just buying a new one, but you're in the position where cost is a major issue:

Lenovo and Dell both have a little known outlet center on their websites. They are selling refurbished and returned desktops and laptops for a lot cheaper than new ones. Granted, often times it is hardware from one generation (or more) back, but for anyone upgrading from a 5-6 year old machine it won't matter much.

Lenovo's Outlet (http://outlet.lenovo.com/)
Dell's Outlet (http://www.dell.com/us/en/dfh/df.aspx?refid=df&s=dfh&cs=22&~ck=mn)

[Avistew]

Thanks, Steve.
I think with the new card I should be good to go for a while. Next time I can't play a new Telltale game on graphic level 1, I'll get a new computer, and make sure to be careful that it's easily upgradeable.

[taumel]

I've an Radeon HD 4550 which is a really cheap card to pick up these days, I play it on quality 9 at 1360x768 and it runs grand. In 1920x1080 mouse lag becomes noticeable.I don't think so, this sounds too much after some voodoo or very personal interpretation. It simply doesn't match with the underlying tech and restrictions. There are people who complain when a game falls with the framerate below 60fps as well as there are others who are fine with anything below 10 fps as well, so...

[Wapcaplet]

I don't think so, this sounds too much after some voodoo or very personal interpretation. It simply doesn't match with the underlying tech and restrictions. There are people who complain when a game falls with the framerate below 60fps as well as there are others who are find with anything below 10 fps as well, so...
PM sent to JedExodus. Hopefully he'll let us know how well it runs.

Incidentally, I can run the game OK on level 3 with a Mobility Radeon X300.

[taumel]

Thanks, no need to. I just hope that people who read this thread and are in a simliar postion don't get fooled and think that the 4550 is a card they should go for when wanting to play TTG adventures whilst there are more reasonale solutions with a much better performance/price ratio around which just fit a lot better.

If you have no idea of what a card is capable of and what not i often suggest googling for some benchmarks in order to get a rough idea.

Btw. your avatar, i always was wondering was this exactly is. Is it a baby rattle or...?

[Avistew]

It's the "use" icon from hit the road.

[taumel]

I know but what is it exactly?

[Avistew]

I think it's a doll that you can press. I guess I never gave it much though.

[taumel]

Hmmm...

The net amongst others says "A Hand with a green living "thing" in it." If this would be the case, it reminds me a bit of the eXistenZ Metaflesh Game Pod.

[MusicallyInspired]

I always thought it was something akin to a stress ball. Yknow, those things you squeeze and something pops out. In this case it's the "creature's" head/eyeballs, etc. A squish toy of some kind. I don't know.

[JedExodus]

Step aside peeps, Wapcaplet gave me the skinny :p

I'm running Season 3 on a 4550, I have my resolution 1360x768 and I generally keep the graphics at quality 6. Once the real-time shadows are applied the frame rate takes far too much of a hit for my liking.

It'll probably run grand on lower resolutions so if you want me to check any other resolution then let me know

[DjNDB]

I would also recommend the 4650.
You can see a nice 4550 vs 4650 comparison here (http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews.php?reviewid=671&pageid=6). There are various Memory details though to be aware of when buying (64 bit/128 bit, ddr2/ddr3).

[JedExodus]

Oh yeah I shoulda mentioned that mine's 512MB DDR3 version of the 4550

[ShaggE]

4770! 4770!

...Sorry. Ever since discovering this card, I've been mentioning it as much as possible. :p Best budget card... nay! best card period... I've ever bought. Shame that a lot of folks overlooked it.

[JedExodus]

I've heeded your words and it's still on my to-do list. Particularly cos I can't play Season 3 on full I just feel like i'm missing out

[Chyron8472]

I don't know why some people assume computers have to be expensive to buy.

I bought a desktop pc last September for $450, and it can run ToMI at detail #9 at 1440x900 (my monitor's native resolution.) I would say that's good specs at a reasonable price.


This invoice doesn't include the price of RAM I bought from cruical.com

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9131/71285362579832547130342.jpg

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5406/71285362579333547130342.jpg

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3197/71285362579283647130342.jpg

[taumel]

4770! 4770!

...Sorry. Ever since discovering this card, I've been mentioning it as much as possible. :p Best budget card... nay! best card period... I've ever bought. Shame that a lot of folks overlooked it.
Too much power consumption for such scenarios.

[Leak]

Too much power consumption for such scenarios.
Then get a 5750 - it's about as powerful as the 4770, but it draws less power when idle...

[taumel]

But it still consumes more power than a 4650 and it's more expensive.

[Leak]

But it still consumes more power than a 4650 and it's more expensive.
10 EUR and 1W more...

[DjNDB]

10 EUR and 1W more...

The 4650 takes less then 50W under full load (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543_15434~127873,00.html) and doesn't need an extra power connector.

The 5750 takes up to 86 Watts (http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5750/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5750-specifications.aspx).

Also the Price difference is more like
4650 $59.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121340&cm_re=4650-_-14-121-340-_-Product) vs 5750 $139.99
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127494&cm_re=5750-_-14-127-494-_-Product)

[Leak]

The 4650 takes less then 50W under full load (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543_15434~127873,00.html) and doesn't need an extra power connector.

The 5750 takes up to 86 Watts (http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5750/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5750-specifications.aspx).
But who cares for that as long as it uses about the same amount of power when idle, i.e. when surfing the web or doing anything not involving 3D?

Also the Price difference is more like
4650 $59.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121340&cm_re=4650-_-14-121-340-_-Product) vs 5750 $139.99
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127494&cm_re=5750-_-14-127-494-_-Product)
Yeah, I was comparing the price to the aforementioned Radeon 4770. But still - if you get a better (i.e. more expensive) card now you won't have to upgrade it again one year down the line...

[DjNDB]

But who cares for that as long as it uses about the same amount of power when idle, i.e. when surfing the web or doing anything not involving 3D?

Avistew would be unhappy if she bought a card that could run ToMI and S&M TDP, but crashes as soon as she starts the game (or turns up the graphics quality) because she only has a 240 Watt PSU.

[ShaggE]

Too much power consumption for such scenarios.

Aye, but if you shell out for a new PSU along with the card, you'll be saving quite a bit down the road. On top of that, the consumption-to-power ratio is rather impressive on the 4770. I know Avistew said she doesn't care to run the game buttery-smooth at setting 9 with a huge resolution, but it certainly can't hurt to consider a bit of future-proofing.

[Leak]

Aye, but if you shell out for a new PSU along with the card, you'll be saving quite a bit down the road.
True, but in Avistew's case this (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=291139&postcount=92) might be a big bump in the road to a new power supply...

A pox on those OEMs and their custom made crappy components... :(

[taumel]

@ShaggE
But as it seemed avistew was already fine with a 4550. A 4650 can be bought at a low price, doesn't force you to exchange anything beside of the gfx card and runs a lot faster than a 4550. I would say this is a perfect deal.

Of course there do also exist alternatives with an even better performance/price ratio and cards like a 5750, 5770 or a 5850 can be a very fine solutions depending on your specific situation, are DX11 capable and so on, but they don't fit so well in this specific case.

[ShaggE]

^ Good point. I skimmed the thread, to be honest, and didn't see that portion.

Of course, take my recommendations with a grain of salt. It's geek instinct to recommend parts far beyond what are actually needed/wanted. :p

[Wapcaplet]

I've recommended the 4550 above the 4650 for a couple of reasons:

1) The 4550's maximum power draw is 20W, while the 4650 is 50W. We've determined that her system draws 170W under full load. The 4650 gets a little too close to the power supply's 240W maximum draw, and I'm always worried about pushing crappy power supplies close to their maximum. If her power supply dies, she can only replace it with that specific model, which may be hard to find. She may have to look for a new computer then.

2) I'm not there to install and troubleshoot avistew's computer. If I were doing this in my office or for someone local, then I'd give the 4650 a try and see how the computer handles it. If the wattage draw is OK under full load with either Prime95/StressCPU or 3DMark and there's no graphics corruption, I'd feel OK with it. I'm not so sure about recommending something when I'm not there to actually install it and watch it work.

3) I need to check if any of the 4650s would fit her case. Take a look at the image of the inside of her system -- the card can't jut much further past the end of the slot. The 4550s we've already looked at appear to fit with enough clearance.

4) She doesn't have a local computer store with a good return policy, so newegg.ca looks like her best bet. Exchanging products by mail in case it doesn't work adds another layer of work to the job.

I tend to be a bit conservative when recommending equipment, unless I know the person has a good background in installing & troubleshooting things. I'd love for her to have the 4650 too, but I don't feel comfortable recommending it in this situation.

And yes, my avatar is the "use" icon from Hit the Road (and it makes its triumphant return in Season 3). It's a stress reliever squeeze toy:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2059/41vfeag8gnlsl500aa280.jpghttp://img709.imageshack.us/img709/6664/31lvr5pzblsl500aa300.jpg

You can buy one here (http://www.amazon.com/Schylling-PANIC-PETE-SQUEEZE-TOY/dp/B001R57O88).

[taumel]

I understand your point of view but i would go for the 4650 because a) you won't run on full performance all the time, b) i don't think this is a really bad power supply and c) i've made the experience that most of the time these things work out just fine. But i'll end this discussion from my side now.

Regarding your avatar, LugiHann already explained it to me but thanks again. I somehow would prefer a green one as well. Does there exist a video how its get squeezed?

[Wapcaplet]

Does there exist a video how its get squeezed?
Found one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mByWcfrnKv0

[taumel]

That's just...weird?

I think the sound it produces distarcts me the most. I like the idea but the design is rather ugly, dunno if i would be more into this if i would search for some sm toy or practicing as a murder but thanks for looking it up.

[Avistew]

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2059/41vfeag8gnlsl500aa280.jpghttp://img709.imageshack.us/img709/6664/31lvr5pzblsl500aa300.jpg.

I think I would be tempted to buy it if they had it in green.

[MusicallyInspired]

Regarding prices, once you know you NewEgg (http://newegg.com/).

[Avistew]

Okay, thought I'd give you guys some news.
I received the card today. I would have installed it right away but couldn't find any cruciform screwdriver, I'm not kidding, I had all other shapes but that one.
So I waited for my husband, thinking he'd know where they were. And he did, but I think I should share this: the screwdriver handle was under the couch, and the screwdriver ends were on top of the dishwasher.
And he knew that. What the...?!

Anyways, I switched it to low profile and installed it, then I had no sound. Went into the Control Panel, and saw the problem (it thought the video card was a sound card for some reason). Set it back the right way.

Then we tried the penal zone and even tried it on 9 to see if that would work. It worked no problem (we played until a bit after the credits).

So, it's working fine and should last a while. Thanks everyone for your advice :)

[Wapcaplet]

Great! Did you end up getting the 4550 or the 4650?

[Avistew]

Great! Did you end up getting the 4550 or the 4650?

I ordered as soon as I could because I was in such a hurry :p So I had already ordered the 4550 when people told me the 4650 might be a better choice.

Either way, since it works I'm happy with it :)

[Wapcaplet]

Either way, since it works I'm happy with it :)
Good to hear, especially that you can run it at level 9.

[ShaggE]

Congrats! I love the "new video card" experience. :D

[MusicallyInspired]

Ah, congrats. I wish I had a new video card computer.

[DjNDB]

Then we tried the penal zone and even tried it on 9 to see if that would work. It worked no problem (we played until a bit after the credits).

So, it's working fine and should last a while. Thanks everyone for your advice :)

You can't believe how glad I am that it works so well, considering the circumstances.
For future reference:
Could you post a link to the exact card model you are using?
Also which resolution do you play the game in?

[Avistew]

You can't believe how glad I am that it works so well, considering the circumstances.
For future reference:
Could you post a link to the exact card model you are using?
Also which resolution do you play the game in?

This (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127458) is the card I have.
For the resolution, I left it the way it was when I first started the game. The computer's resolution otherwise is 1200 something x 1000 something. I'll take a look at that tomorrow but I'd rather not start it up for that (I'm on the laptop).

[DjNDB]

This (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127458) is the card I have.
For the resolution, I left it the way it was when I first started the game. The computer's resolution otherwise is 1200 something x 1000 something. I'll take a look at that tomorrow but I'd rather not start it up for that (I'm on the laptop).

Thanks, that's good to know :)

[Leak]

it thought the video card was a sound card for some reason
Actually, it is - if there is an DVI/HDMI adapter in the package you can hook your PC up to your TV/receiver/monitor through an HDMI cable and get video and sound without having to use another cable...

[Avistew]

Actually, it is - if there is an DVI/HDMI adapter in the package you can hook your PC up to your TV/receiver/monitor through an HDMI cable and get video and sound without having to use another cable...

Oh, okay. Well it didn't have an adapter in the package, although it did say in the instructions how to plug it if there was one included.
Good to know I guess, although it doesn't change the fact that I couldn't get any sound and had to change what the computer used as a soundcard :p

[Leak]

Oh, okay. Well it didn't have an adapter in the package, although it did say in the instructions how to plug it if there was one included.
Well, those passive DVI/HDMI adapters can be bought separately, so I guess they were too cheap to include one.

Good to know I guess, although it doesn't change the fact that I couldn't get any sound and had to change what the computer used as a soundcard :p
Oh, you had sound output alright, you just didn't have anything hooked up to hear it... :D

np: The Fall - Hot Cake (Your Future Our Clutter)

[Avistew]

Oh, you had sound output alright, you just didn't have anything hooked up to hear it... :D

For what it's worth, I did check if there was any way I could plug the speakers into the card :p

[Avistew]

Okay, so it does run on 1200 something x 1000 something. I forget what now. Since that's not my monitor's shape there is a black band on top and on the bottom, and the loading picture is all squished (not the game though). But when I switch it to something lower it says "for ideal performance pick 12..x10.." so I figured I'd follow the advice.

[Leak]

Okay, so it does run on 1200 something x 1000 something. I forget what now. Since that's not my monitor's shape there is a black band on top and on the bottom, and the loading picture is all squished (not the game though). But when I switch it to something lower it says "for ideal performance pick 12..x10.." so I figured I'd follow the advice.
Actually, 1280x1024 is probably your monitor's native resolution (so the game's graphics don't have to be scaled to make them fit, which usually introduces extra blurriness) - but since the game is made for a 16:9 widescreen aspect ratio (as opposed to your screen's 5:4) it gets black bars added by the game to match, just like 4:3 TVs do with 16:9 material.

[Avistew]

I never realised 16:9 computer screens existed.

[Leak]

I never realised 16:9 computer screens existed.
Well, currently there's probably more 16:10 screens in use, but sadly the battle to kill vertical space on the desktop continues at a quick pace, hence the flood of 16:9 monitors being released.

Can't be long until you can only buy 16:1 monitors, with great resolutions like 1680x105... :D

np: She & Him - I'm Gonna Make It Better (Volume Two)

[Will]

I'd rather have width than height. But regardless, most widescreen monitors support portrait mode. Just rotate them 90 degrees and suddenly you have an awesome webpage reader.

[The Highway]

I'm considering getting that NVIDIA graphics card with the 3D glasses so I can play Telltale Games in 3D.

Scratch that. Apparently, I don't have the right CPU or monitor for one. Lousy laptop!

[MusicallyInspired]

Never expect anything amazing from a laptop. Ever.

[Chyron8472]

Which is to say that if your laptop is amazing, wait 6 months and it won't be.