Roy G. Biv

[TonViper]

This pseudonym popped up during the end of the first season. I didn't grasp the meaning behind it until just now, several years later when I happened to come across the name in a different context.

So, just who is Roy G. Biv?


Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet

Go figure with all those rainbow references in that episode. It's one of those things that probably goes right over your head if english isn't your first language.

It's little details like these that make the games worth playing through more than once. There's always something you missed on the first playthrough.

That said, bring on season 3. :D

[Giant Tope]

I learned about Roy G Biv in school as a way to remember the colors of the rainbow. In fact there's a song for it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf33ueRXMzQ)

[TonViper]

I figured there'd be something like that. It's one of those things you don't automatically know if you're not a native english speaker, since you won't have learned stuff like that in english, and thus would have had to use completely different methods of remembering it.

In danish, the same row of colors would yield this result: roggbiv. It's almost the same, but with a little change that makes a big difference.

Not as easy to do anything with that row of letters, I'm sure you'll agree.

[NeatNit]

In hebrew it's אכציכאס.
Not exactly a huge hint.

[Irishmile]

That is how I remembered the color spectrum in school as well.

[MusicallyInspired]

Neat!

[adventureaddict]

Yep, joining those who used this in school.
But glad to see others can enjoy it just as much as we did when first hearing it! =]

[Shwoo]

I never learned the colours of the rainbow that way. I think it may be an American thing. I'd heard of it by the time I played 105, though.

...Never mind, didn't see adventureaddict's post. Anyway, I never learned it.

I do remember a song about rainbows... I think it was on Playschool. It started:

Red and yellow and pink and green
Purple and orange and blue

Which wasn't very helpful. I remember, I had trouble trying some other kids that that wasn't the order the colours went in the rainbow.

[corruptbiggins]

I learned the colours of the rainbow with the mnemonic 'Richard of York gave battle in vain'. Didn't really think about what Roy G. Biv meant.

[Avistew]

ROJVBIV in French.

Can't remember ever having to use a mnemonic device to remember colours. But maybe I wasn't paying attention.
I do remember there was a mnemonic device to remember the value of resistance based on the colour on them. But I forget now.

[MusicallyInspired]

I never ever heard of it in my life.

[Irishmile]

Its not just remembering colors its remembering the specific colors in the visible part of the Electromagnetic spectrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum) or specifically the visible spectrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_spectrum) saying its how Americans learn how to remember simple color names makes us sound like mouth breathing idiots.

Obviously its only real world application is helping people appreciate Pink Floyd album covers (http://www.cddesign.com/covertalk/images/dark-side-of-the-moon-cd-cover-design.jpg)

[Shwoo]

I'm the only one who mentioned Americans, and I didn't mean to imply that Americans are stupid. Just that I thought that that specific mnemonic was American, and so I would have been taught a different way of memorising it.

[Irishmile]

I know, I was just attempting humor .... I failed .. I will retreat to my corner and think about what I have done

[Hubert]

Never heard this one in my life until I saw this thread; I just thought Sam made a huge leap of insanity that simply turned out to be true because it was supposed to be, lol.

[Rather Dashing]

Obviously its only real world application is helping people appreciate Pink Floyd album covers (http://www.cddesign.com/covertalk/images/dark-side-of-the-moon-cd-cover-design.jpg)
Actually, there is at least one other. When scuba diving(or in a submarine, I suppose!), the water refracts(think that's the right term) the light. As you get deeper, your perception of these colors from natural sunlight disappears. Fun stuff!

[Shwoo]

Never heard this one in my life until I saw this thread; I just thought Sam made a huge leap of insanity that simply turned out to be true because it was supposed to be, lol.

He did. There is no mud worshipping tribe called Kappalahotek in the Serengeti, "morning" doesn't mean ""He who destroys the hypnotic rainbow man" in any language, and he's not the only character who's never said the word morning.

He didn't figure it out from his pseudonym.

[Tilan]

Fun fact: in the French retail version of Sam & Max Season 1, "Roy G. Biv" was replaced by "Seth Cooler" (if I recall correctly).

When I first played the game (in both languages), I didn't know what "Roy G. Biv" meant, so I didn't understand why it was changed in the French version. I eventually found out some time later, that it represented the colors of the rainbow.
Then I realized what the French name meant: "Seth Cooler" sounds just like "sept couleurs" in French, which means "seven colors".
Clever.

[Astro Gnocci]

Fun fact: in the French retail version of Sam & Max Season 1, "Roy G. Biv" was replaced by "Seth Cooler" (if I recall correctly).

When I first played the game (in both languages), I didn't know what "Roy G. Biv" meant, so I didn't understand why it was changed in the French version. I eventually found out some time later, that it represented the colors of the rainbow.
Then I realized what the French name meant: "Seth Cooler" sounds just like "sept couleurs" in French, which means "seven colors".
Clever.

Nice one indeed ;)
Haven't played the french version myself (just saw it quickly at some friend's place), so i can't comment on the overall quality of the translation, but that kind of clever little things is always nice to spot.

[The Gentleman]

I worked it out as Red Green Blue, the 3 colours that Hugh can turn into.

[Soeroah]

This isn't how I remembered the colours, but I was aware of this style, so when I *first* heard the name in Episode 5 I thought "Oh man, not him again!"

Of course it was made much more obvious just after that, but it was still a nice snap moment.

[Leak]

Obviously its only real world application is helping people appreciate Pink Floyd album covers (http://www.cddesign.com/covertalk/images/dark-side-of-the-moon-cd-cover-design.jpg)
That's strange - mine looks different (http://a7.idata.over-blog.com/0/00/48/63/disques/dub-side-of-the-moon.jpg)...

Come to think of it, it also sounds a bit different... :D

And, of course - there's also this great Boards Of Canada song called Roygbiv (http://bleep.com/player/?/WARP55/14076/maxiplus/D3F9D3/575757/00D126/WARP55.jpg) (click the blinking triangle when it auto-pauses to continue playing...).

np: Autechre - Bike (Incunabula)

[der_ketzer]

That's strange - mine looks different (http://a7.idata.over-blog.com/0/00/48/63/disques/dub-side-of-the-moon.jpg)...

Come to think of it, it also sounds a bit different... :D

Mine only looks different. (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51V-q2I%2BrKL._SS400_.jpg)
I don't even know why I bought this Cd. I don't really like the album and I knew that before I bought it. But then how can you not buy something with a cover like that. (and the other Cds of Pink Floyd were much better)

[MusicallyInspired]

Wasn't there another DSOTM release recently in around 2003 where it was remastered, or rerecorded with "improved" artwork? Personally I think they were capitalising on Mike Oldfield's idea with Tubular Bells 2003 (http://tubular.net/covers/large/TubularBells2003.jpg) (original (http://tubular.net/covers/large/TubularBells.jpg)). Jean Michel Jarre also rerecorded his first album Oxygen around that time as well. Still need to buy that, incidentally...

[LogicDeLuxe]

I just learned about it last year. I watched one episode of the American Sesame Street, and Roy G Biv was in it. I didn't play through season one since then, but I probably would have noticed by then.

Interesting fact, that humans tend to define color bands when in reality, it is a continues spectrum. The number of bands also varies between 4 and 7, depending on what document you are reading. In fact, while Roy G Biv defines 7 colors, the Ematics cover, the rainbow roller-coaster and pretty much all the other rainbow appearances in Sam & Max only have 6 colors. Just like the Pink Floyd Cover.

[der_ketzer]

Wasn't there another DSOTM release recently in around 2003 where it was remastered, or rerecorded with "improved" artwork?
That's the version I have. The SaCD.

[Avistew]

Interesting fact, that humans tend to define color bands when in reality, it is a continues spectrum. The number of bands also varies between 4 and 7, depending on what document you are reading. In fact, while Roy G Biv defines 7 colors, the Ematics cover, the rainbow roller-coaster and pretty much all the other rainbow appearances in Sam & Max only have 6 colors. Just like the Pink Floyd Cover.

I studied colours in linguistics, it was awesomely interesting.
What we studied is different cultures from all parts of the world and their colours. One in particular, I remember, had a colour that included some red and some purple (to us) and the next colour included some purple, some blue and some green, or something like that.

Anyways, they did tests where they showed colours to people who used different colour systems, and asked them to identify if they were part of category A or B. For instance a person would be asked if something is red or purple, but because they were part of the same colour in their culture they wouldn't be able to know. Or someone using "our" colours would be shown a purple and be asked if it was colour A or B and wouldn't be able to tell (after being taught the difference and everything of course).
It was really interesting.

Even if you don't go to that extent of different cultures, I've noticed a lot of people don't have the same definition for when something stops being blue and starts being green. The same colour will be called blue by some people and green by some others.

And another thing I don't really get with colours is how there isn't a different colour for a pale blue, green, yellow, orange, etc. But there is for a pale red: pink. And we consider it a completely different colour as a result, when the different between pink and red is similar to the difference between pale green and dark green.

[Rather Dashing]

And another thing I don't really get with colours is how there isn't a different colour for a pale blue, green, yellow, orange, etc. But there is for a pale red: pink. And we consider it a completely different colour as a result, when the different between pink and red is similar to the difference between pale green and dark green.
There are names in english for different color hues, though. I think the difference with red, though, is the stark cultural difference between red and pink. Pink is considered culturally to be such a "feminine" color that the distinction is extremely clear in the(at least American) mind. That is, boys don't wear pink, but they can wear red. Different roles require different names. The hues of other colors generally are interchangeable for the majority of everyday purposes, so the main color name is used for the vast majority of circumstances. The names for hues only come in where the difference matters and is important, such as when choosing a shade of paint, or trying to sell a box of crayons with over 100 colors.

[Giant Tope]

That is, boys don't wear pink, but they can wear red.

*pops in*

Actually prior to the War Era, pink was a boy's color.

*pops out*

[Avistew]

Actually I think it's the opposite. To me it's not "pink has a different name because it has a different cultural implication", but "pink has a different cultural implication because it has a different name".

[Starcat5]

I first heard about Roy G. Biv from Bill Nye. ...in my Highschool years. >_< In fact, until Reality 2.0, that had been the ONLY time I had come across that coin of phrase.

[Rather Dashing]

Actually I think it's the opposite. To me it's not "pink has a different name because it has a different cultural implication", but "pink has a different cultural implication because it has a different name".
I don't see how, though. I think I can argue this fairly competently, too.

After all, lots of hues have names (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colors). They aren't commonly used. Generally, the hues with names that ARE commonly used have some cultural meaning. Grey is always seen as being neutral/partway between sides, pink is seen as an effeminate color, beige is seen as a "boring" color. Why doesn't magenta have another meaning from pink? Violet from Purple? It has another name, after all.

The distinction between cultural meanings make us want to use two names for the hues. New meaning, new word. Otherwise, in everyday use, the "catch-all" works just fine, except in cases were hue is extremely important.

[Avistew]

Well, I'm of the opinion that new words create new meanings rather than the other way around, is all. When you have two words for something, they both shift in meaning until they mean slightly different things.
People who speak different languages think differently, too. When learning new languages, I always open new kinds of awareness, and it's awesome. You realise how much your thinking is limited by language. You only have one word for two things so you don't even see the difference. Things like that.

I don't think it's exactly the same as you other examples though. The others you named are very specific. Pink isn't. There is light or dark pink, purplish pink and orangish pink, it's not ONE specific hue. Magenta or Vermillion or whatever are one specific colour with pretty much none variation on it allowed. Therefore pink is closer in use to red, green or blue, which also have many variations within, than to the other examples you mentioned.

I personally think this theory is obvious when you're trying to speak another language that you don't master yet. Because you don't know the words, you end up not knowing what you mean anymore. Your whole way of thinking is simplified, too. And if you switch to your mother tongue, then suddenly, you feel like your thoughts are much, much clearer, that you know what you mean now, it's not just a "thingie" or anything, you know exactly what it is.
If meanings influenced language, you should know exactly what you mean but not have a word for it. but in my experience it's not how it works. You don't even know what you feel anymore, or if you feel anything at all, if it doesn't have a name (that you know).

[Rather Dashing]

I don't think it's exactly the same as you other examples though. The others you named are very specific. Pink isn't. There is light or dark pink, purplish pink and orangish pink, it's not ONE specific hue. Magenta or Vermillion or whatever are one specific colour with pretty much none variation on it allowed. Therefore pink is closer in use to red, green or blue, which also have many variations within, than to the other examples you mentioned.
I don't know, what of beige? It's very much different than say, standard brown, or at least as different

I personally think this theory is obvious when you're trying to speak another language that you don't master yet. Because you don't know the words, you end up not knowing what you mean anymore. Your whole way of thinking is simplified, too. And if you switch to your mother tongue, then suddenly, you feel like your thoughts are much, much clearer, that you know what you mean now, it's not just a "thingie" or anything, you know exactly what it is.
If meanings influenced language, you should know exactly what you mean but not have a word for it. but in my experience it's not how it works. You don't even know what you feel anymore, or if you feel anything at all, if it doesn't have a name (that you know).
Maybe it's a difference in how you and I perceive things, but I don't get that at all.

Oh, a bit of background: I am a language major. I'm pretty advanced in my second language, somewhat competent in a third, and I have bits of trivial knowledge here and there of various others(I know very, very, very little French, by the way).

The language I'm communicating in does affect how I think, very much so, but it's always been more the grammar that seems to get to me rather than the actual words themselves. Er, from a "Change in the way I think" perspective. How words are placed changes your focus, your perspective, and it gives a much richer experience to understanding your ideas.

Where is the difference between us, though? Maybe it's a cultural thing? Gender thing? Difference in the way some people perceive things? Or perhaps just a semantic difference in how we're expressing the same thing?

I don't see how language does anything BUT evolve to a cultural need to differentiate and name things. "Text" became a verb to accommodate SMS mobile phone messages. Every technology was a "thing" before it had a name. Schadenfreude isn't a concept that erupted from a word. We don't make up words and then assign them to things, we see things and give them names because we need to compare and contrast this thing to that thing.

[Harald B]

Well, I'm of the opinion that new words create new meanings rather than the other way around, is all. When you have two words for something, they both shift in meaning until they mean slightly different things.
People who speak different languages think differently, too. When learning new languages, I always open new kinds of awareness, and it's awesome. You realise how much your thinking is limited by language. You only have one word for two things so you don't even see the difference. Things like that.

I don't think it's exactly the same as you other examples though. The others you named are very specific. Pink isn't. There is light or dark pink, purplish pink and orangish pink, it's not ONE specific hue. Magenta or Vermillion or whatever are one specific colour with pretty much none variation on it allowed. Therefore pink is closer in use to red, green or blue, which also have many variations within, than to the other examples you mentioned.

I personally think this theory is obvious when you're trying to speak another language that you don't master yet. Because you don't know the words, you end up not knowing what you mean anymore. Your whole way of thinking is simplified, too. And if you switch to your mother tongue, then suddenly, you feel like your thoughts are much, much clearer, that you know what you mean now, it's not just a "thingie" or anything, you know exactly what it is.
If meanings influenced language, you should know exactly what you mean but not have a word for it. but in my experience it's not how it works. You don't even know what you feel anymore, or if you feel anything at all, if it doesn't have a name (that you know).
Ah, the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis). I can accept a certain amount of interplay, but when you give language too much primacy it starts to sound a bit preposterous to me. Something like "Pink is culturally significant because it is widely used." feels too blunt and one-way. Especially since it seems to suggest there was a time it was widely used but not culturally significant yet.
Also, do you really find your native tongue apt for everything you think of? Have you never felt that poetry, literature or art can express things sheer descriptive prose cannot? Surely plenty of people have.

[Avistew]

I don't see how language does anything BUT evolve to a cultural need to differentiate and name things. "Text" became a verb to accommodate SMS mobile phone messages. Every technology was a "thing" before it had a name. Schadenfreude isn't a concept that erupted from a word. We don't make up words and then assign them to things, we see things and give them names because we need to compare and contrast this thing to that thing.

I see what you mean. I didn't mean everything we think is 100% caused by language.

I think that language does influence culture, though. Take Schadenfreude, your example. There isn't a word for that in French. I know what it means, sure, but the whole concept doesn't feel like the "deserve a word for it" kind of concept, and I'm sure if there was a specific word for it in French I wouldn't feel the same way.

I think that for everything that physical and material, words are invented to match things. On the other hand, for concepts and abstract things, a lot of the time it's a bit... muddier? Some languages have some words, some don't, and the culture is linked to that. I start getting some concepts when I learn the words for them sometimes. On the other hand it's hard to explain the meaning of words sometimes because there isn't a perfect match, and that does affect the way people think.

I'm going to try and find some examples, but keep in mind they're from my memory and not ideal examples. One day we were playing a guessing game with my husband and I ended up with hint such as "you can listen to the radio on it and it can give time, and it can be as tall as a man" or something. And the answer was "clock". Well I didn't find it. Because the word for a clock that's as tall as a person, and the word for an alarm clock (that you can listen to the radio on) are so different in French ("horloge" and "radio-réveil") that I couldn't wrap my mind about something that could be both.

Another time, my husband told me to sit in the chair. I said "but there is no chair here". He pointed to the armchair. I never though he could have meant the armchair, because when he said "chair", I thought "chaise", while an armchair is a "fauteuil", something completely different.

Now, I'd like to make it clear that I didn't think the French words on either of these times. Just the concepts. When he talked about a chair, the concept of a chair I picture excluded the idea of an armchair. While I was trying to answer the riddle, the concept of a standing clock and the concept of an alarm clock were in two very separate categories that didn't have a common ground, they were not "two different types" of the same thing.

That's obviously due to language. To the fact that the names for these things are so different in French that even though they are similar in use, I considered them to be more different than similar.

Now, obviously, the words for all these things came after the things were invented. I don't mean "we come up with a word, and then the concept appears". More that once there is a word, it affects how people who learn that word and that language will think.

Because pink is a different word, I believe it had the opportunity to evolve a different cultural meaning. So I don't think there was first a "pale red is for girls, it's different from darker red" thing that led to "let's name it differently", but more of a "for some reason, this word is different" which led to it being used differently. If I'm making sense.
Obviously, sometimes it's hard to tell which influences the other the most. It's possible that I'm wrong on this specific example.
Then there is the fact that the French word for pink ("rose") is also a type of flower. Surely that has to have an influence somewhere. As far as French is concerned, it's possible it was named after the flower, and that the association with the flower made it a "girly" colour, for instance. If things happened this way (which I'm not saying it did, but it sounds like a plausible suite of events) that would be culture being influenced by language.

[Giant Tope]

In Western culture, the practice of assigning pink to an individual gender began in the 1920s. From then until the 1940s, pink was considered appropriate for boys because being related to red it was the more masculine and decided color, while blue was considered appropriate for girls because it was the more delicate and dainty color, or related to the Virgin Mary. Since the 1940s, the societal norm was inverted; pink became considered appropriate for girls and blue appropriate for boys, a practice that has continued into the 21st century.

I read something about how people started associating pink with femininity because during the holocaust the symbol used to tag for homosexual men was the pink triangle. But I'm not sure how much of that's true.

[Avistew]

I read something about how people started associating pink with femininity because during the holocaust the symbol used to tag for homosexual men was the pink triangle. But I'm not sure how much of that's true.

I don't know, but I remember there were jokes in my household about how my colour was red even though I'm a girl and it's a boy's colour and my eldest brother's colour was blue even though he's a boy and it's a girl colour.
I had no idea blue was supposed to be a "boy" colour now.

[Giant Tope]

Colors can mean anything to anyone, but that's just the case in at least general American culture.

[Avistew]

Actually, I was thinking of it and I think very pale blue can be used for baby boys, yes. Although I'd still associate baby boy clothes more with yellow than blue.

Of course colours don't mean anything in themselves.

EDIT: By the way, still about colour connotations:

In English, as I understand, "blue" can mean sad, down, but also refer to things that are sexual in nature (a blue movie?).
In France, sex things use pink in the language and culture. "Pink phone line" means a sex phone line, the symbol for porn movies is a pink square, etc.

[Giant Tope]

Well, what I'm saying is that nowadays baby blue represents boys and pink represents girls, but in the past it was the opposite.

There are certain stuff about color theory that comes into play when it comes to why certain colors may represent emotions. Cooler colors tend to be more calming while warm colors tend to excite. That all is pretty common knowledge though.

Also, I can only assume that shades of red is often used to represent sex because it's the color of healthiness when it comes to people. Red also makes people hungry, (likely because it's the color of meat) which is why it's abundantly used at diners and fast food places.

[Rather Dashing]

"Blue Movie" is a pretty outdated term, at least for US english-speakers. Has it persisted in Canada?

In my experience, the color of sex has always been red in english. Like, a scarlet red.

[Avistew]

Red is the colour of passion in French. That can include sex and blood both.

Dashing > I actually only heard the expression in the Order of the Stick, when the Oracle says something like "I decided to go blue instead" after he made a sexual joke. That's when I googled it.

I just found it interesting because blue also means being down in English, while pink is also used for being happy in French (to see the world pink) so I wonder if it means English is saying "sex is bad" and French is saying "sex is good".

I remember something about colours in packaging, and how some detergent sold better due to the colours used that associated it with being clean or something.

[Giant Tope]

I just found it interesting because blue also means being down in English, while pink is also used for being happy in French (to see the world pink) so I wonder if it means English is saying "sex is bad" and French is saying "sex is good".

Uh... Not really. The term "blue movie" (which I haven't heard of prior to you mentioning it) comes from the term "blue laws" which were laws that were based off of religious moral values, and porn was generally considered against that religious moral code. There's a lot of debate as to why they're called blue laws though.

[Avistew]

Maybe because blue is the colour of Mary and a symbol of things that are pure and stuff?

colours have political meanings too! Here, for France:

Red: far left, mostly the Communist Party
Green: the ecology party
Pink: the socialist party
Orange: the Modem, centre party
light blue: the UDF (if it still exists) Center-right
dark blue: the UMP, right-wing party

Black: the anarchists. White: the royalists.

It's interesting how many meanings we can give to colours.

[Giant Tope]

Maybe because blue is the colour of Mary and a symbol of things that are pure and stuff?

Yeah except the people who supposedly coined the term were Puritans. Also, over here red=republican blue=democrats green=...green and so on and so on.

[Pantagruel's Friend]

Actually, I was thinking of it and I think very pale blue can be used for baby boys, yes. Although I'd still associate baby boy clothes more with yellow than blue.

Interesting - where I live, the baby boy colour is definitely blue - pale or not so pale. While yellow is the favourite colour of one of my daughters.

[WarpSpeed]

Just to throw in another random trivia item, the human eye can see (distinguish between) more shades of red than shades of green. Scientists who study satellite vegetation maps use falsely-colored red maps, because it's easier to compare plant health between regions with reds.

So that may be another reason why people use more names for shades of red than for other colors.

Or maybe the people who made up the color names drank a lot of red wine in the process, and there wasn't a lot of green or blue wine available.

[Shwoo]

I thought the shades of red thing was because human skin is various shades of red, but I'm probably just making that up.

Shades of orange, more accurately, but there's no real reason why orange should be considered such an important colour. Lots of languages didn't have a separate word for it. Including English.

[Avistew]

I thought the shades of red thing was because human skin is various shades of red, but I'm probably just making that up.

Shades of orange, more accurately.

Really? When I was in art school the base colour for skin always was yellow. I guess we added some red to that, but so little... For me it was always more yellow than orange.

[Shwoo]

I don't know anything about paint mixing, but when I pick a pale human skin tone in a digital colour picker, I always use a lighter shade of orange.

[Avistew]

Probably due to the medium difference, then :)

I guess your way does make sense, though, since brown is basically a dark shade of orange, so that would cover more skin tones.
Although yellow and orange are close to begin with anyways.

[Giant Tope]

Even with light orange, you still use shades of red/pink right? Assuming we're talking about painting white folk, of course.

[Iron Curtain]

I always made a mnemonic device out of ROYGBIV with this: "ROY Got [/b]B[/b]ig In Vegas".

Hey, it worked for me!

[Falanca]

Although yellow and orange are close to begin with anyways.

Orange needs more respect!