Episode 2 is available on GameTap

[DavidScott]

Episode 2 is available on GameTap

[Emily]

Thanks for the heads up. :)

GameTap link (http://www.gametap.com/telltale), for anyone too lazy to type it out. :D

[War-overlord]

Grrrrrrr :mad: . Gametap is only available in the US and A and Canada. Which makes us Europeans have to wait until January to play Episode 2. I don't want to wait, I want to play.
Still I'm glad that, according to a review (find the link at MixNMojo), the over-plot, that binds the episodes together, will start to dawn. Who will be the Great Villain controlling the smaller ones. My money is on the Royal Swedish Guild of Dentists and Malcomb "lizardeyes" Cartwright.

[Hero1]

theres a review of the game here: http://blog.wired.com/games/2006/12/sam_and_max_2_r.html

doesnt contain any spoilers..

[taumel]

I've said it before: In my opinion this deal sucks for most of the players in the world and i'll never again buy a game on this basis!

[Derwin]

Except... without the Gametap partnership, the Sam & Max game might have never had enough funding to be made... sooo... I think I can wait 15 days.

[Davejhj]

The wait is painful. If Gametap would just open up to people outside of their beloved USA they would, A) Make more money, and B) Make us Aussies happier.

Seriously, the condition should have been, Sam'n'Max avail to all ppl in USA through Gametap, cannot download from any other source. All others in all other countries can download directly from Telltale on the release date. Gametap dont lose out cause they still get all the customers in US and Canada. Also saves those who cant wait the 15 days from downloading a pirated copy..even though they've already paid to Telltale!

[Erwin]

Oh please. Not again? Are we going to have this Gametap discussion every month a new episode is out?

--Erwin

[Davejhj]

Unfortunately I think we will. It annoys everyone but the Canadians and the Americans, regardless of the fact that without Gametap we wouldnt have the game. We'll get over it though :o)

[Sir Lemming]

I've said it before: In my opinion this deal sucks for most of the players in the world and i'll never again buy a game on this basis!

Fine. Your loss. If you think anyone else will join you in this boycott, I think you're sadly mistaken.

[Davejhj]

Fine. Your loss. If you think anyone else will join you in this boycott, I think you're sadly mistaken.

/agree. Have fun trying to find another game as entertaining as this one is.

[LuigiHann]

So, instead of playing it two weeks from now, you'll play it... never? Yep, sounds like a real win/win for you.

[Hero1]

A lot of games come out in America..and are never released in Australia..or released months later..(hmm psychonauts) same with other countries around the world.. 15 days is nothing compared to this.. if this was a game only available in stores trust me we'd all be waiting a lot longer..

[Linque]

Unfortunately I think we will. It annoys everyone but the Canadians and the Americans, regardless of the fact that without Gametap we wouldnt have the game. We'll get over it though :o)

I'm European and I don't mind. Sorry to spoil your fun. :o

Seriously, I'm going to be able to play the game very soon anyhow, so I don't care about the wait. Not that I'd find it acceptable for TTG to make the wait 30 days just because I'm not ranting and raving yet.

What irks me most about Certain Companies is that if the customers don't voice their great disapproval of a certain issue, they think that it's ok to shaft them a bit more. Actions like those make me try to actively search for optional suppliers to change to. I'm glad TTG isn't one of them. :)

[jp-30]

Another non North American right here who is not at all disturbed / annoyed / throwing a tantrum because of the 2 week longer wait than GameTap subscribers for the chance to play Sam & Max episodes.

[gfxdave99]

OHHH BOY! It came out on my week off.. the bad is i solved it in about 4 hours of gameplay...

But the good is that its funnier then the first, and it was a good game just short as the complaints with culture shock.. While I enjoyed the first episode, Max had some lines in this one that had me literally LOL'ing aloud at the computer. (my chihuahua probably thinks im nuts)

I'll probably play this again in a week or two.. for the non gametap people out there its worth the wait, its getting closer to the S&M glory of the Lucasfilm original.

[Hero1]

OHHH BOY! It came out on my week off.. the bad is i solved it in about 4 hours of gameplay...

But the good is that its funnier then the first, and it was a good game just short as the complaints with culture shock.. While I enjoyed the first episode, Max had some lines in this one that had me literally LOL'ing aloud at the computer. (my chihuahua probably thinks im nuts)

I'll probably play this again in a week or two.. for the non gametap people out there its worth the wait, its getting closer to the S&M glory of the Lucasfilm original.

thanks for the review! if its funnier than episode 1 it must be pretty damn funny.. looking forward to it

[Chewy]

I just finished the game and I LOVED IT!

Much, much better than Episode one. All the great humor from S&M1 is still intact for the most part, plus some seriously comedic dialog to make it all the better. The game is also more challenging (though still fairly easy in comparison to more advanced games). Most importantly, the plot in this game is leaps and bounds better than the last, and longer!

The whole episode kind of reminded me of that theatre level in Psychonauts, where you switch between scripts to complete the entire play. Except this is somewhat more puzzly, and with TV shows.

Keep up the great work TTG, can't wait for the next episode (though my Gametap subscription runs out soon, so if you want to release an early version to just me before that day, I'd appreciate it!)

[jadekitten5425]

i just finished too, was SERIOUSLY funny but very easy and short, A++ guys. but please can you make max go whee when sam hits him, like in ep 1, it may seem trival but i mourned greatkey fir it's loss

[dloeke]

I'll have to wait till the 5th of January, but I don't mind. That means I have something to look forward to after the Christmas vacation has ended, amidst all the stress that comes with a new term at school. :)

I'm really looking forward to this! I purchased the season upgrade yesterday, so I'm all ready. :D

[Pvt._Public]

It's like having a belated christmas present. You'll be all like "Ho hum. There goes Christmas. No more presents for me". Then, "Well, that was a good new year celebration. Now what?". Then you'll be all like, "Sam and Max. OMFG!".

[Sp0tted]

I live in the US, but I intentionally didn't use Gametap as I figured TTG would make more cash per game from their site, not from the Gametap sponsorship. I know Gametap forked over a major portion of the cash, but I figured TTG would get more cash in the long run from individual sales.

[ShaggE]

After hearing that episode 2 is even funnier than the first, I'm definitely going to buy the full season come January. I was waiting just in case the success of the first was a one-off lol (no offense to Telltale of course, I'm just pessimistic like that)

[mothra]

i ordered the whole season and what better way to start the new year with some S&M. if they can top ep1 in fun and wackiness I'm gonna explode laughing.

:D :D :D

[numble]

Great episode, I felt it was much better plotwise--this episode got me to realize that Sam and Max really is at it's best when it's poking fun of the latent absurdities in American culture, and I felt that this episode really ran with it in terms of that theme; Hit the Road did it in terms of American roadside attractions, and Situation: Comedy did it in terms of television and entertainment.

Really makes me wonder what the guys have up their sleeves for the next episodes... politics? theme parks? annoyingly-themed chain restaurants?

Or they could keep running with the celebrity/entertainment subtext for the entire season and there'd still be a lot of material to work with--just means that the possibilities are endless for other seasons.

[numble]

That said, I discovered this site when I saw an ad for Game Tap on the television. Lucky me, since I usually don't watch TV. In that commercial, I saw Sam & Max advertised... in 3-D. I'd thought that they were lost when Lucasarts stopped properly supporting them, and when I discovered they still existed, I immediately looked them up.


Another plus for Gametap involvement here--I'm sure everyone's seen the ads on all the game sites for Sam and Max + Gametap (or maybe only N. American viewers see those ads), but I didn't realize that Gametap ads on TV have also been including Sam and Max in them.

I highly doubt that Telltale would've been able to get such television advertising exposure were it not for their partnership with Gametap (whose parent company owns several of the more popular TV channels).

[Jake]

Yeah, GameTap is doing a great job promoting the game. We're very appreciative, and it's awesome to see Sam & Max getting out there like this.

[Lazerus101]

theres a review of the game here: http://blog.wired.com/games/2006/12/sam_and_max_2_r.html

doesnt contain any spoilers..

That review is pretty damning though for the most part I agree with it.

But god how can it be even SHORTER and EASIER than Ep1? A game which for me I coulda run through in my sleep.
No offence but if these "puzzles", and I use the word grudgingly, are and indication of the average persons intelligence im not sure if I want to be on this rock any more.

Momma stop the world I want to get off!

[numble]

Lazerus: Have you seen the latest Telltale blog posting (http://telltalegames.com/community/blogs/id-149) by Sam and Max game designer Brendan Ferguson? He talks about the issue of puzzle difficulty in the Sam and Max Season One episodes, and how they plan to ramp up the puzzles as they move forward.


No offence but if these "puzzles", and I use the word grudgingly, are and indication of the average persons intelligence im not sure if I want to be on this rock any more.


Could we quit playing the intelligence/stupidity angle here? The ability to solve adventure game puzzles has nothing to do with intelligence, but a lot to do with experience.

There's a reason why experienced Halo players can pick up Gears of War pretty quickly, and experienced Street Fighter players can pick up Mortal Kombat quickly, and it has nothing to do with intelligence levels. It also explains why fighting games have devolved into a niche genre for only hardcore gamers and why every First Person Shooter game has a tutorial and/or beginning levels of easy difficulty level--do FPS fans complain that Halo sucks because the first couple of levels are a breeze to experienced FPS gamers?

[LuigiHann]

I think it's to the point where it's better to think of it as an "interactive cartoon." It's beyond excellent in that regard.
I did think it was odd that this one felt a bit shorter than Episode 1, especially considering all the new locations.
Unrelated note:
How weird was it, in the office and on the street, to hear Max's new voice making the exact same jokes from the first episode? It highlights the difference between the two voices. Don't know which I like better, they're both good.

[Diduz]

I did think it was odd that this one felt a bit shorter than Episode 1, especially considering all the new locations.


I think the length and the difficulty level are along the lines of Episode 1.
But you pointed out the real issue of Episode 2 (IMHO). I don't understand why we should get old locations and old gags if they add so little to the game length or extension. Telltale could've easily got rid of the initial scenes in Sam & Max's neighbourhood and sent them right to the tv station, increasing the number of locations there.
There's no need to meet Bosco, Sybil and Jimmy in EVERY episode. The return of Bosco was spot-on and funny, but Sybil's and Jimmy's presence felt a little... mandatory.

[numble]

Yeah, I think new jokes would be preferable to recycling responses--it is a little extra reward for repeat customers for them to get that feeling of, "I wonder what they'll say about the lava lamp in this episode." I enjoyed the new jokes put in place for the water cooler and wilting plant, for example.

But practically, I know it's probably very difficult to write 6 different jokes about 20 different items (and I don't know if they can top some jokes like the Not'chos and lava lamp).

[Hero1]

Could we quit playing the intelligence/stupidity angle here? The ability to solve adventure game puzzles has nothing to do with intelligence, but a lot to do with experience.


I'm not sure I agree with that.. If I can take a 7 year old who has never played an adventure game..and he can figure out the puzzles in culture shock all by himself .. and quite quickly.. Then surely its about how much you ask the gamer to think.. its that thought process of .. having a problem and thinking of ways to solve it.. I dont know about episode 2 cause i havent played it..but episode 1 the solutions came to mind very quickly..now i've talked to people who havent played games in years and years and they found culture shock easy.. I just think all forms of entertainment have been dumbed down..it seems you have to do it to reach the masses.. music..film..and video games.. it explains why "The Wire" the greatest show on television is only watched by 1.5 million people.. Hit The Road was released 13 years ago..pretty difficult game but it sold a heap of copies..to a wide audience.. would it do the same if it was released today? people are probably too stupid to figure it out these days.. sad times indeed :o ;)

[ShaggE]

Numble said it well. Some of the jokes probably can't be topped. Or, it IS to show the contrast between the 2 maxes? The world may never know...

The shorter length could be because you arent exploring an entirely new gameworld this time through, and not because it actually IS shorter (I dont know this for fact, as I haven't got the game yet, but it seems plausible)

[ShaggE]

I just think all forms of entertainment have been dumbed down..it seems you have to do it to reach the masses.. music..film..and video games.. it explains why "The Wire" the greatest show on television is only watched by 1.5 million people.. Hit The Road was released 13 years ago..pretty difficult game but it sold a heap of copies..to a wide audience.. would it do the same if it was released today? people are probably too stupid to figure it out these days.. sad times indeed :o ;)

That is so true. And try getting a younger gamer to play a game without flashy polygons and ragdoll-based urinal cakes and quadruple-anti-aliased pants. They won't do it, as all they've known was fancy graphics. It's mindnumbingly sad to see kids play the games that we grew up with and say they "suck". Either because they're too hard, too ugly, too repetitive... the list goes on. I reccomend that schools should teach their students "Early PC gaming " classes lol

[Emily]

Lazerus, have you played episode 2 yet? If not, maybe you should hold off your judgments about it until then. ;)

That review is pretty damning though for the most part I agree with it.

But god how can it be even SHORTER and EASIER than Ep1? A game which for me I coulda run through in my sleep.

The funny thing is Chris (the Wired blogger) actually enjoyed playing episode 2 better than episode 1. At least, that's what he told me, and that's the impression I got from reading his blog, but it seems like not everyone who reads it is getting that impression.

I've seen several reviews now from people who liked episode 2 better than episode 1. Don't take a few offhand comments about the game's difficulty or length as gospel. It's a very funny game, and it'll be followed up by another very funny game a mere month later.

Review copies went out 1-2 weeks before the game's launch, and since it hadn't been released yet, the only way for someone to get a hint when they got stuck was to ask me. I had far more requests for help this time around than I did with episode 1.

[taumel]

I believe that's just due to your new haircut... ;O)

[Steve2000]

I live in the US, but I intentionally didn't use Gametap as I figured TTG would make more cash per game from their site, not from the Gametap sponsorship. I know Gametap forked over a major portion of the cash, but I figured TTG would get more cash in the long run from individual sales.

Same here. I would rather wait two weeks - give Telltale all my money (well not all of it, just what it costs to buy Sam N Max) - and not have to pay a monthly subscription fee.

[numble]

I'm not sure I agree with that.. If I can take a 7 year old who has never played an adventure game..and he can figure out the puzzles in culture shock all by himself .. and quite quickly.. now i've talked to people who havent played games in years and years and they found culture shock easy..

Isn't that the point, that Culture Shock isn't supposed to be very difficult, since it's to allow newcomers to get through it without being frustrated?

I gave Culture Shock to an 18 year old and watched the person play (without any help from me), and it took them over 30 minutes to find the cheese and get the phone back.

But we have clearly established biases, so I doubt Telltale would (or even should) take our anecdotes as clear market research. They've got the gorilla of Gametap there that says Culture Shock has probably been the most played game ever on Gametap with it being on the Top 5 list for over 2 months, and Gametap has just launched a much-anticipated adventure game (Myst Online: Uru Live) based on the premise of people helping each other solve puzzles so they can advance the storyline faster (How weird that so many people are attracted to a game that involves getting through puzzles quickly).

I just think all forms of entertainment have been dumbed down..it seems you have to do it to reach the masses.. music..film..and video games.. it explains why "The Wire" the greatest show on television is only watched by 1.5 million people..

Fewer people watch The Wire because it is on HBO in the United States, and very few people pay for that premium--it is a hit amongst those that have HBO, which is why it's still running.

Hit The Road was released 13 years ago..pretty difficult game but it sold a heap of copies..to a wide audience.. would it do the same if it was released today?

How many games were released 13 years ago? You need only look at Myst to see why it was so popular at the time--there was nothing else, and these games were in CD-ROM, with 16-bit sound and music, talkie voices, and VGA graphics (Just look at what they advertise on the old game boxes). Main point being, they were top of the line in technology at their time, and there wasn't much else out there -- the consoles at the time were the Super Nintendo and Genesis, but nowadays the consoles are much more on equal terms or better with their PC counterparts. Are you surprised that many of the top selling games now are also top of the line?

[Udvarnoky]

I'm not sure I agree with that.. If I can take a 7 year old who has never played an adventure game..and he can figure out the puzzles in culture shock all by himself .. and quite quickly.. Then surely its about how much you ask the gamer to think.. its that thought process of .. having a problem and thinking of ways to solve it.. I dont know about episode 2 cause i havent played it..but episode 1 the solutions came to mind very quickly..now i've talked to people who havent played games in years and years and they found culture shock easy.. I just think all forms of entertainment have been dumbed down..it seems you have to do it to reach the masses.. music..film..and video games.. it explains why "The Wire" the greatest show on television is only watched by 1.5 million people.. Hit The Road was released 13 years ago..pretty difficult game but it sold a heap of copies..to a wide audience.. would it do the same if it was released today? people are probably too stupid to figure it out these days.. sad times indeed :o ;)

I don't think you and I share the same definition of "dumbed down" especially when you try to compare your issues with the games' difficulty to making movies or other art forms more mainstream. Making a Sam & Max game is about being true to the characters, getting the sense of humor right, capturing the essence of the comics, etc. I'd say Telltale has pretty much done that with their games so far. Is the fact that they're doing it in a way that doesn't arbitrarily shut out 70% of their potential audience really dumbing it down? Maybe if Max followed up his firearm abuse jokes with a public service reminder that guns are not toys, I'd agree with you, but sticking to 15-year old puzzle design philosophies of hardcore adventure games is not a requirement in making a good Sam & Max game. It's not like having hard puzzles is a staple of Sam & Max just because they occurred in Hit the Road. Don't confuse Sam & Max priorities with the priorities of 1993-style graphic adventure games - something Telltale never claimed to be trying to make.

And no, being able to solve Hit the Road does not make you smart and other people stupid. Back when I first beat Hit the Road, the experience of solving the puzzles might have given me pleasure in the sense that I was finally able to overcome the problem that stumped me for so long, but I rarely thought, "Wow, that puzzle really made me think!" so much as I thought, "Wow, that puzzle really made me use every item in my inventory with every hotspot in every environment until it worked!" The fact that a lot of the puzzles in Culture Shock came naturally to us and the fact that we had a perverse affinity for the puzzles in some of the more nonsensical older games comes from the adventure gamer mentality that we built up. We keep a constant eye out on things on the screen that we could possibly stick a golf ball retriever into in a way that non-adventure gamers don't not because we're smarter, but because we're more familiar with the adventure game formula. It's hard to do, but I think if you could manage to step back for a minute and try to look at the Sam & Max episodes the way a person who's never played such a game might then you might appreciate the way the puzzles are presented a bit more.

Also did you really see a 7-year old who's never played an adventure game beat Culture Shock quickly with no help, or are you just saying you could imagine it?

Also also, I really don't think you can prove just how wide an audience Hit the Road supposedly sold a heap of a copies to.

[Kunkku-Antti]

Don't take a few offhand comments about the game's difficulty or length as gospel.

Well, at least those "few" offhand comments about episode 1 were absolutely true. So, these same people suddenly can´t evaluate episode 2´s difficulty correctly?


I gave Culture Shock to an 18 year old and watched the person play (without any help for me), and it took them over 30 minutes to find the cheese and get the phone back.



Yippeee!!! Because of people with a brain capacity like this, I´ll probably have to skip season 2, just because I don´t want to feel that I am not stupid enough for the game. Goddamn! If I am not entirely mistaken, S&M basically spell out that the CHEESE MUST BE IN THE OFFICE somewhere. So, how freaking hard can it be to find a fucking closet and open the door?

Now come on, are people actually that stupid nowadays?

[numble]

Yippeee!!! Because of people with a brain capacity like this, I´ll probably have to skip season 2, just because I don´t want to feel that I am not stupid enough for the game. Goddamn! If I am not entirely mistaken, S&M basically spell out that the CHEESE MUST BE IN THE OFFICE somewhere. So, how freaking hard can it be to find a fucking closet and open the door?

Now come on, are people actually that stupid nowadays?

Hey hey, I clearly said you can't take my anecdote as clear market research.

But in defense...

One thing was that the person was getting accustomed to the controls and figuring out that the little box in the corner was the inventory and that you can use the inventory, another thing was that the person didn't think to touch any of the doors, since Sam and Max said the cheese must be in the office. And then there's the whole point of making the cheese become Swiss cheese...

Clearly experienced point and click adventure gamers know right away how to operate everything, and to click on everything.

I must bring out my tired analogy again: Think of introducing a Half-Life fan to Halo, they can clearly pick up the controls and strategy in a very short time, compared to a person that has never played a FPS before. This is why the first levels of both Halo and Half-Life, and nearly every other FPS, has simple levels that introduce you to the gameplay controls, mechanics, and strategy.

I bet that even Halo 3 will have easier beginning levels. They could just assume that everybody will already know how to play it, but they don't, and they somehow sell more copies that way.

Update: And just thinking about how 30 minutes is a very long time, I feel like I must have exaggerated, so I'll just revise my time assessment to "it took the person a very very long time, about 5-10 times longer than it took me."

[Udvarnoky]

Well, at least those "few" offhand comments about episode 1 were absolutely true. So, these same people suddenly can´t evaluate episode 2´s difficulty correctly?

If you have problems with episode 1's difficulty expect to have the same problems with episode 2's, because they're the same difficulty level (I found). I think her point was that the game's difficulty or lack of it doesn't detract from the fact that it's very enjoyable.

[tabacco]

Well, at least those "few" offhand comments about episode 1 were absolutely true. So, these same people suddenly can´t evaluate episode 2´s difficulty correctly?



Yippeee!!! Because of people with a brain capacity like this, I´ll probably have to skip season 2, just because I don´t want to feel that I am not stupid enough for the game. Goddamn! If I am not entirely mistaken, S&M basically spell out that the CHEESE MUST BE IN THE OFFICE somewhere. So, how freaking hard can it be to find a fucking closet and open the door?

Now come on, are people actually that stupid nowadays?

This is inappropriate on a number of levels. Let's watch the language and avoid insulting others' friends and family, okay? I've warned you about the language before, so please try to control yourself.

[numble]

I don't think you and I share the same definition of "dumbed down" especially when you try to compare your issues with the games' difficulty to making movies or other art forms more mainstream. Making a Sam & Max game is about being true to the characters, getting the sense of humor right, capturing the essence of the comics, etc.

I think Udvarnoky makes a really good point here, if anything Telltale's rendition of Sam and Max is definitely less dumbed down than the TV show, which had no guns (don't remember if HtR had guns) and definitely has "smarter" humor in the form of societal commentary/parody and dialog-based humor compared to a lot of the one-off sight gags that cartoon shows rely on so much.

[Hero1]

I don't want to get into another debate about the difficulty.. I think I've said all I can about that topic.. but Telltale has said they haven't made the sam and max episodes more difficult because they want to reach a wider audience..their philosophy is to attract "casual gamers".. It would be interesting to know what percentage of these "casual gamers" bought culture shock compared to those who had played hit the road or past lucasarts adventures..

[numble]

I think Udvarnoky makes a really good point here, if anything Telltale's rendition of Sam and Max is definitely less dumbed down than the TV show, which had no guns (don't remember if HtR had guns) and definitely has "smarter" humor in the form of societal commentary/parody and dialog-based humor compared to a lot of the one-off sight gags that cartoon shows rely on so much.

Ah, now I remember why I had this idea--for those of you who bought The Age of S & M: A Sam & Max Sketchbook, near the middle of the book is a sampling of all the "dumbing down" that was required for the TV show. Seems like every page of every script had problems...

A sampling:

Page 1: Please do NOT show Max biting down on a battery while standing in water.
Page 2: Please do NOT show Max wielding an axe.
Page 18: Please delete the "Holy" from Sam's "Hanna(?) hold the phone."
Page 5: As previously noted, it will not be acceptable after Zeus' "Slayer of Uranus" line for Sam to say "I had a great response for that, but the network made us take it out."
Page 19: Please delete or substitute for Sam's reference to everything that "sucks or blows." Also, on this page, please substitute a generic cookie for "Fig Newtons." And also do not show a "soiled mattress." Please do not have Sam sniff and inspect the mattress.

So much unintentional comedy from network censors.

[numble]

Joystiq has released a pretty glowing review (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/22/joystiq-review-sam-and-max-situation-comedy-pc/) of Situation: Comedy.

Of course, those intent to do so can always take one sentence of any review and spin it in a negative direction.

[Kunkku-Antti]

Update: And just thinking about how 30 minutes is a very long time, I feel like I must have exaggerated, so I'll just revise my time assessment to "it took the person a very very long time, about 5-10 times longer than it took me."

Well, I exaggerated a little too. Of course newcomers have to get used to the gameplay first. Also, there´s alot to examine in that office too, so I understand that it´s not like he was actively seeking cheese for half an hour. Anyway, I found it quite funny that it took a long time to just open a door to find cheese.

Also, I tried to make a funny remark about me being too smart for the game, I have read a couple of comments about how gamers don´t want to feel stupid when they are playing, on the other hand I bet that a lot of old adventure fans feel that the game is actually too dumbed down for them, just to please those casual gamers who are searching for instant gratification. Sure, they may find a new favourite, but as well they may forget S&M after season 1 or maybe even in between episodes of season 1. While telltale wants to please these dudes, the moving market, they kinda forget the solid fanbase that has been waiting for the game since HtR. I feel a little disappointed. Otherwise the game was absolutely great and that´s why I even bother to bitch about it. They might have as well made it a perfect game.

But I am sure telltale shouldn´t worry too much about opinions like mine. Solid fanbase will buy the game anyway even if it´s too easy for them, many casual gamers will buy the game and enjoy the fact that they won´t get stuck. Money flows in through doors and windows and they can smoke fine cigars and drink the finest bourbon in a limo. There´s naked Playboy-bunnies everywhere and they can bathe in champagne... Hehe, or that would have been the scenario if they had developed Half Life 2 or something.

What I am trying to say that they´ll probably sell more games if the difficulty is easy. Fans will buy it anyway, as well as casual gamers. So, why should they even care? But, I can say that I won´t follow to the next season if the game is aimed for those casual gamers, like it or not. I want challenge and fancy package (all the other stuff, like humour, dialogue, funniness) is not enough for me to buy a game. Yes, if I want a game, I buy a game, not a remotely interactive story.

This is inappropriate on a number of levels. Let's watch the language and avoid insulting others' friends and family, okay? I've warned you about the language before, so please try to control yourself.

Sorry, sometimes I just get a little carried away. I might as well apologise. Even though I might express myself extremely it doesn´t mean that I actually wholly mean it, you know. Exaggeration, provocation and stuff, partly with a tongue in cheek but with always a grain of truth hidden somewhere. Sometimes I forget though that people don´t know me and might not understand, and that´s my fault. I bark, but I don´t want to bite and hurt.

[jp-30]

but Telltale has said they haven't made the sam and max episodes more difficult because they want to reach a wider audience..their philosophy is to attract "casual gamers"...

In fact, many of you have already correctly guessed that we aim to gradually increase the difficulty over time, so be patient. As it happens, we just finished the design of Episode 5 the other day, and when I played it in my mind, I thought to myself, "Pretty challenging."

So, games will be getting harder as season progresses, as many of us assumed.

[Hero1]

So, games will be getting harder as season progresses, as many of us assumed.

so why is episode 2 easier than episode 1 as some reviewers have stated? :confused:

anyway heres some more situation comedy reviews for ya

http://pcgames.gwn.com/reviews/gamereview.php/id/1142/p/1/title/Sam_and_Max_-_Season_1_Episode_2_Situation_Comedy.html

http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/sammaxepisode2situationcomedy/review.html

http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,711/

http://www.gamedaily.com/sam-and-max-episode-2-situation-comedy/pc/game-reviews/5672?articleID=40588

http://www.quandaryland.com/jsp/dispArticle.jsp?index=796

http://au.pc.gamespy.com/pc/sam-max-episode-2/751873p1.html

http://www.defunctgames.com/shows.php?id=courant-80

[jp-30]

I'm trying to stay spoiler free. Can you quote some of these reviews that state that episode 2 is easier than episode 1?

[Udvarnoky]

so why is episode 2 easier than episode 1 as some reviewers have stated?

It's about the same difficulty as episode 1. Some people might find it a bit easier or a bit harder, but there's no significant departure in either direction in my view. And don't forget that when episode 1 was released and the criticisms about difficulty were being voiced, episode 2 was probably well beyond fundamental changes. I'm sure that by episode 5 there will be a more noticeable shift like Brendan tells us.

All that said, it should be pretty clear by now where Telltale stands on the topic of difficulty in a general sense, and anyone who seriously expects some of Hit the Road's illogical puzzles by the season's end should stop deluding themselves.

[numble]

I'm trying to stay spoiler free. Can you quote some of these reviews that state that episode 2 is easier than episode 1?

I'll try to go through these reviews for you and remain spoiler free, highlighting whatever they say about difficulty level, and I'll try to be objective for once ;) :

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/12/22/joystiq-review-sam-and-max-situation-comedy-pc/
This adventure game is about as traditional as they come, with a central crisis only seeing resolution once a series of smaller and somewhat related puzzles have been solved. Objects are collected, dialogue trees are traversed and your inventory is applied to the environment. Those are the mechanics of the actual game and described as such, they don't sound awfully entertaining.

A great game will hide all of that though, making it disappear in a puff of smoke while you become entranced by the plot and characters. You'll be pleased to learn then, that Sam & Max is a great game.

As was the case with Culture Shock, (we should have just reprinted that review, it seems) the puzzles in Situation: Comedy are immensely fun and completely logical ... at least within Sam & Max's twisted universe. To apply the puzzles to a real-world situation is to invite madness, so it really is a testament to the game's impeccable presentation and sense of humor that you essentially learn to think like a crazy person -- and quickly. The difficulty still errs on the side of easy, especially for veteran adventures, but it never feels like the game is holding your hand. That would be gross.


http://pcgames.gwn.com/reviews/gamereview.php/id/1142/p/1/title/Sam_and_Max_-_Season_1_Episode_2_Situation_Comedy.html
Sometimes less can be more, but in the case of Situation: Comedy less is just that; less. Specifically, there are fewer puzzles, items, and dialogs, and the puzzles themselves are easier.

Don’t expect much of a mental challenge, though. Instead, take this new series for what it is; a chance to watch and listen to Sam & Max in action, and help them out a bit along the way.

It’s as brief and easy as the previous episode, but overall it’s more palatable.


http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/sammaxepisode2situationcomedy/review.html
The gameplay aspect of Situation Comedy is a nice refresher on adventure games with plenty to click on, but without the detailed pixel hunting that can be the source of much frustration. I don't mind having to search a bit, but when I'm trying to locate a point that's between one blade of grass and the next it's too much, which isn't a problem here.

Over all the difficulty of some of the puzzles could be increased, but the variety of gameplay is there and the game was enjoyable and definitely worth the price of download.



http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,711/

There's little difficulty or puzzle challenge to speak of.

Sound familiar? Almost like you read the same review two months ago? Some aspects get just a little better, some get just a little weaker.


http://www.gamedaily.com/sam-and-max-episode-2-situation-comedy/pc/game-reviews/5672?articleID=40588
Like the first episode, this episode lacks lengthy gameplay and mind-bending puzzles. Storytelling remains the focus, and Sam & Max deliver great one-liners.

Simple trial-and-error by players solves most of the puzzles. There might be the occasional difficult puzzle, but answers are found in plain sight.


http://www.quandaryland.com/jsp/dispArticle.jsp?index=796

Of course the puzzles are also suitably silly. Nothing is spared the silly treatment. A lot of the time you couldn't possibly not laugh, especially when you can see what's coming. The puzzles are never too difficult and, you guessed it, involve [information that is spoiling], and there is again a mixture of inventory and conversational puzzles. Culture Shock gave us an amusing end puzzle relying on picking the right conversational response and in Situation: Comedy there's a couple more little gems, a kind of a signature evolving in this latest Sam & Max Series.

So listen carefully to pick up the cues, hints abound in the numerous comments and conversations. Some of them really hit you over the head and are worth a laugh in their own right.



http://au.pc.gamespy.com/pc/sam-max-episode-2/751873p1.html

It's a bit shorter than Episode 1 (mostly due to slightly easier puzzles), but the script is much sharper and funnier this time around, which makes it a more than adequate trade-off. Telltale Games is finally hitting its stride with this series and we couldn't be happier.


http://www.defunctgames.com/shows.php?id=courant-80

Also, the puzzles are generally pretty easy to figure out if you have some experience with this style of point and click graphic adventures. There may be a few sections that trip you up (such as the trial and error-style game play required for [a puzzle]), but most players will be able to figure out the puzzles in short order.


I must note that most of the time, these are very short parts of these reviews, and most of the time they are spending time talking about the plot and humor.

[Lazerus101]

Personally I found it DID detract from the enjoyment, mostly because I found the puzzles patronising.
As an old school point and click veteran I am used to off the wall and skewed logic, hell I completed all of the ones I played before I even knew what a walkthrough WAS. And that list included Discworld I and II, Maniac Mansion, Dune, All the MI games, HTR, Full Throttle and DoTT. I guess I just kinda expected more challenge from these Episodes as the Original HTR was definately more on the Hard end of the difficulty scale, along with the Discworld ones, though those were easier if you had read the books.

Hmmm where could there possibly be cheese....
In the rather glaring obvious closet perchance?
Egads there it is! My word what a smart chappie I must be to have outfoxed this so cunning of quandaries.
But forsooth, the rat wants swiss cheese. Whatever shall I do.
Hmmm well swiss cheese has holes. What do I have that makes holes...
BOWLING BALL! No wait too big. What else do I have. Hmm this is so hard the number of items I have that could possibly make holes borders on the mindboggling, I may have to get out my calculator to boggle such figures.
Oh wait... there the first thing in my Inventory! A gun! That sure does make holes.
Huzzah! Puzzle completed, I R GEENEUS!

[ShaggE]

I am a compulsive gamefaqs user, if an adventure game lets me alt+tab, I find it hard to avoid finding a walkthrough when I get seriously stuck. I'm a veteran of the genre, but sometimes a puzzle or pixel-hunt will catch me offguard and completely stymie my progress. In the case of Sam n' Max, that puzzle was the "take out the soda poppers" one. It just never occured to me that I could pull someone over for money. So, after trying a million different things, I gamefaqs-ed it and went back to finish the game from there. Doesn't make me stupid, just means I let a game feature pass my notice.

Could have been the same with the Cheese-Hunting 18-Year Old. He might have tried to click open the door once and the game registered it as "walk here" (which I've seen happen countless times), and so he thought the door wasn't meant to open.


Or maybe he was entranced by all the shiny colors. mmmm.... shiny....

[Kunkku-Antti]

Hehe. I wanted to see how my brother would do palying Sam & Max ep.1. Well, I had to basically translate the game for him because he doesn´t understand English, I tried to avoid giving puzzles away for him, though in some places it was unavoidable. Hey, no one can expect an 8 year old to understand psychiatric terminology and psychoanalysis! So, this test isn´t totally trustworthy. But I paid special attention to not tell him what to do and it´s not like I told him what answers to choose or something, just outlined what he was supposed to do in that psychoanalysis puzzle.

Anyway, the game is definitely too easy if an 8 year old boy from Finland, who doesn´t understand English, can complete the game in one evening.

[Maratanos]

Really makes me wonder what the guys have up their sleeves for the next episodes... politics? theme parks? annoyingly-themed chain restaurants?

WARNING: GIANT NASTY SPOILERS FOR EPISODE 2 FOLLOW! READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!

the toy mafia that makes hypno-bears.

[Emily]

Hmmm where could there possibly be cheese....
In the rather glaring obvious closet perchance?
Egads there it is! My word what a smart chappie I must be to have outfoxed this so cunning of quandaries.
But forsooth, the rat wants swiss cheese. Whatever shall I do.
Hmmm well swiss cheese has holes. What do I have that makes holes...
BOWLING BALL! No wait too big. What else do I have. Hmm this is so hard the number of items I have that could possibly make holes borders on the mindboggling, I may have to get out my calculator to boggle such figures.
Oh wait... there the first thing in my Inventory! A gun! That sure does make holes.
Huzzah! Puzzle completed, I R GEENEUS!

That was the first puzzle of the game, and also the demo puzzle. The game designers intentionally made it easy.

You don't like to feel like the designers are patronizing you? Fine, then don't patronize them by assuming they aren't capable of deciding when to put in an easy puzzle and when to put in a hard one. ;)

People who want crazy, obscure, mindbending puzzles have plenty of other options. Go play Rhem. :p

[taumel]

And what if i want to play logical, entertaining and challenging puzzles? Which game should i play then?

[Yohmi]

And what if i want to play logical, entertaining and challenging puzzles? Which game should i play then?

If you got a wife, you already have it at home.

And if i want something that, with a simple button, peel instantly a clementine for 5 bucks? What ? I want everything right now for a low price ? Nonsense.

[Kunkku-Antti]

People who want crazy, obscure, mindbending puzzles have plenty of other options. Go play Rhem. :p

And if I want to play a game that even an 8 year old can complete in a couple of hours, I should play S&M? You know, even my brother said that it was an easy game. I didn´t even have to ask him, neither did I give a hint of my thoughts in any way, he just expressed himself without asking. "Hey, this is a pretty easy game." I liked especially how he completed the antenna "puzzle".

"You need some sort of an antenna."

"Antenna... hmmm"

(literally five seconds later)

"Oooh, antenna! It´s in the office! This is a pretty easy game."


Now, let me ask a question. Why is that "puzzle" even in the game since it´s so obvious? Does it serve a purpose? Is there reason why that helmet is missing a piece since the player just has to go get it?

I am feeling that I will really skip season two. Not because I didn´t enjoy episode one or S&M in general but because I really don´t like dumbing down. If you want to please the masses and only the masses with remotely interactive interactive storys then fine, but that just shows what really matters: money. Not an all around enjoyable game, just money.

[jp-30]

I'll try to go through these reviews for you and remain spoiler free, highlighting whatever they say about difficulty level, and I'll try to be objective for once ;)

(snip)

I must note that most of the time, these are very short parts of these reviews, and most of the time they are spending time talking about the plot and humor.

Thank you! I really appreciate the effort. It seems the difficulty is about the same as Culture Shock, and as Udvarnoky says, ep 2 was already well on the way when the ep1 feedback started rolling in, and if Brendan says the difficulty starts to ramp up as the season progresses that's good enough for me not to be moaning and threatening to abandon the series / season / company. ;)

[Kunkku-Antti]

threatening to abandon the series / season / company. ;)

What else could I do? They might actually take the threats seriously...

[Hero1]

People who want crazy, obscure, mindbending puzzles have plenty of other options.

Everytime People say they want the episodes to be more challenging, someone says who wants crazy obscure puzzles..thats not what people are asking for and its not a fair argument..

To tell another story my 7 year old nephew wanted to play sam & max..and I said no its too hard..you will need someone to play with you and I'm too busy..but he was persistent so I loaded it up for him and went away.. I came back half an hour later expecting him to be still in the office.. he'd solved the office puzzle..done the driving one and the soda popper puzzle @ bosco's :eek: :eek:

[Hero1]

What else could I do? They might actually take the threats seriously...

Look I'm sure they are taking the feedback seriously.. The real problem here was their 6 episode schedule.. They should have released the pilot maybe 4 months before episode 2..so they got the feedback before beginning on the remaining episodes.. episode 5 is supposed to be more challenging.. the problem is we have to go through the 4 easier episodes that theyve already done to get to it..

[Kunkku-Antti]

Actually, I am well aware of that. Luckily the game is otherwise so good that maybe I can handle three easier episodes...

On the other hand, I wouldn´t want to see Telltale lose those casual gamers if they think the game gets too hard for them. So, probably a possibility to choose a difficulty level is the only solution to please both types of gamers and not lose customers for difficulty reasons.

[Udvarnoky]

If you want to please the masses and only the masses with remotely interactive interactive storys then fine, but that just shows what really matters: money. Not an all around enjoyable game, just money.

Damndest thing, I used to think something being mainstream and all about money had to do with evidence supporting either, but now I know that the label applies simply to anything Kunkku-Antti dislikes. You learn something new every day!

(Also, had Sam & Max had the "correct" puzzles, then Telltale would of course not be a company trying to stay in business but rather the selfless savior of the adventure genre whose employees are willing to put their kids in the orphanage and offer themselves as human sacrifices to prevent being "mainstream," yadda yadda. Also remember that no one is a genuine Sam & Max fan unless they routinely switch between these two wildly different opinions of the company based on every whim they get while playing a new game.)

[Kunkku-Antti]

Of course money matters. It´s not like a company can totally ignore the market aspect of gaming and totally concentrate on the artistic side. But dumbing down games just to make it appeal more people is pretty much being all (or mostly) about the money in my book. "Let´s maximize the profits, those who complain and are already fans are going to buy it anyway so who are we going to lose?"

I don´t hate anything just because it´s mainstream, it´s all about the contents of the game/music/movie/any other product that really matters. But I hate it when products are made to please wider audiences by dumbing them down. I don´t like the compromise side of being mainstream. (OK, compromise might not be the right word, maybe neglecting a demanding part of audience would be more appropriate). I see that a lot of great ideas get lost just because game developers or any other dudes in entertainment industry are afraid to include them just because they fear that they won´t maximize their audience.

On the other hand, they might as well label their game "interactive story". What is an adventure game without puzzles?

[Hero1]

Unfortunately thats the reality.. LucasArts never released Freelance Police because they thought it wouldn't sell.. Telltale wont come out with a game of comparitive difficulty to hit the road, day of the tentacle or grim fandango because they think it won't sell enough.. Who are they making the game for? they want to please the gametap audience(many who dont play adventure games) they want to get in casual gamers(a new large game market online) Now with investors giving telltale millions of dollars..and them a small company having to pay 30 or so workers..they cant afford for their games not to be successful.. They don't want to make a game that will only appeal to a small number of people and then have them go out of business, and frankly I don't want to see that either. So fair enough.

That does mean I may not get the game I want..and all those who grew up on the lucasarts adventures may not either..but that's life :cool: I think if they made somethin with hit the road's level of difficulty it would sell just as much..but they don't.. So if they make easier games to appeal to the masses that's their call. Its their company that's on the line, not mine.

[Kunkku-Antti]

Now you are stating the obvious. I am pretty sure that most of the people here know what the situation is.

All I am asking is that they would include a difficulty level selector with those millions of dollars. I am not asking them to make the game unplayable for casual gamers. I am just asking for a challenge for those who want it and for those who don´t want it the game would be easier. But that might take an extra week of brainstorming and coding per episode and surely I can´t expect them to do that.

[Udvarnoky]

Of course money matters. It´s not like a company can totally ignore the market aspect of gaming and totally concentrate on the artistic side. But dumbing down games just to make it appeal more people is pretty much being all (or mostly) about the money in my book. "Let´s maximize the profits, those who complain and are already fans are going to buy it anyway so who are we going to lose?"

Your definition of dumbing down sucks and is impossible to agree with. Do you really believe that Telltale considers their design philosophy an artistic compromise? Sounds to me like it's something they believe in when they talk about it. You can like it or you can not like it, but calling it an issue of business over art based on absolutely nothing but your own perception of a good puzzle is lame. In fact, it's really not something you can say without coming off as an idiot unless you were told as much by someone at Telltale. I mean, how do you even infer something like that from it???? It's insane. Could be that Telltale considers non-logical puzzles to be sloppy design, and wish to avoid it completely. You DO NOT have to agree with them, whatever their reasons are, but you do have to come up with criticisms that don't imply your ability to read people's minds.

Also notice how in focusing on the puzzles you ignore the fact that Telltale is an independent startup making wacky, episodic, story-driven games sold through a still unconventional delivery system, which put together is a pretty novel (and completely not mainstream) thing right now given/necessitated by the current climate of the industry, and they've done all this without sacrificing the edgier aspects of any of the licenses thus far, particularly Sam & Max. Please word your complaints differently, because the next time someone calls something mainstream just because they don't like it I may in fact bash in my monitor with my face in a fit of rage. Really, describe the puzzles in the most biting, caustic, mean, profanity-laden way you can imagine, I won't mind, but I beg of you not to call it mainstream just because you think the word sounds good.

On the other hand, they might as well label their game "interactive story". What is an adventure game without puzzles?

An adventure game by a definition different than your own, maybe? Also note that I don't think Telltale ever explicitly called their games adventure games. Lots of people, like myself, call them such because of their story-driven nature and the fact that they're point 'n click (which is admittedly not an adventure game law but it does make it resemble a lot of the classic adventures more). They also currently do in fact have puzzles, whether you like them or not.

[Udvarnoky]

All I am asking is that they would include a difficulty level selector with those millions of dollars.

Oh, that's right, they have millions of dollars! Wait, I never read that... But it's got to be true, because after all you said it.


I want you guys to know that despite my bitterness I really do get what you're trying to say, that you want puzzles that are much more challenging but not necessarily illogical. The problem is you're doing it a way that comes off as annoying and arrogant.

[Hero1]

Now you are stating the obvious. I am pretty sure that most of the people here know what the situation is.

All I am asking is that they would include a difficulty level selector with those millions of dollars. I am not asking them to make the game unplayable for casual gamers. I am just asking for a challenge for those who want it and for those who don´t want it the game would be easier. But that might take an extra week of brainstorming and coding per episode and surely I can´t expect them to do that.

I think that would be a good idea to have two levels of difficulty..but do you really think its that easy to implement? Telltale's puzzles are intrinsically linked with the plot and the story.. how can you design puzzles at two levels of difficulty and tell the story at the same time..

[jp-30]

On the harder level, the mouse cursor continually randomly jumps around the screen.

[Kunkku-Antti]

Let´s take a puzzle from Episode one:

SPOILER, SPOILER, SPOILER:

Drop a bowling ball and knock a soda popper unconscious.

That would be the easy puzzle.

Now, basically they would have to expand this puzzle a little bit. I came up with this after thinking for a while how the game could have been a little harder. It didn´t take too long.

Now, what if Sam doesn´t want to drop Lou because he suspects that some dude might stole it while he is upstairs? Well, Bosco could sell some extra-strong rubber bands in his store along with a heap of other useless junk (just to distract the player). OK, Sam notices that the rubber band won´t fit into Lou´s holes, it´s just a little too thick (after all it´s a rubber band and it´s, how should I put it, "twice fold" since it doesn´t have ends). Surely he could fit it in that hole if he could break it and make it more of a rubber string. But it´s extra strong and he just can´t break it with his hands. So, what if he walked outside and put the string on street sings on both sides of the road. When a car drives through, the band breaks (if you put a couple of extra bands there at the same time you could make a giant car-sling). So, now you have a string, and it fits into the hole but now there´s some empty space in that hole. Luckily Bosco sells extra fast cement in his store and you just have to get some water. Sadly, the water cooler is malfunctioning, the fish who lives there has been stuck in the tap and therefore you can´t just take water straight away. Well, you have a big gun so why shouldn´t you use it. Just shoot a hole into the water cooler, combine rubber string, Lou, cement and water and voila, you have a bowling ball yoyo.

[mothra]

hahahahaha, good one !!!!!
i liked the ball-dropping and max's cool "i love my job" or so,
but this one is even more hillarious.

[Kunkku-Antti]

I loved that original one too. It was so cruel and hilarious. Actually, I loved the whole game, I just wish it would have offered a challenge.

[Jake]

If you want to please the masses and only the masses with remotely interactive interactive storys then fine, but that just shows what really matters: money. Not an all around enjoyable game, just money.

So, if you want people other than a small dedicated core of hardcore adventure gamers to play and enjoy your game (which those same fans have been saying for years is a franchise that could and should have mass appeal but is always held back), you're selling out? That doesn't entirely follow for me. I'm a pretty big fan of the first couple episodes actually being completable by a regular guy without having to feel like he's stupid and ramping it up, and as has been said, that will be happening to an increasing degree as things go on. Jake's recommendation: chill out! :) (unless you're also still bothered by a potential lack of humor, a potential to not stay true to the characters, the possibility that the voice actors will be bad, and the thought the game might be in 3D... all things that much hand-wringing was spent on, but turned out pretty well in the end)

[Kunkku-Antti]

(unless you're also still bothered by a potential lack of humor, a potential to not stay true to the characters, the possibility that the voice actors will be bad, and the thought the game might be in 3D... all things that much hand-wringing was spent on, but turned out pretty well in the end)

Hey! If you had fucked up those things you surely would have heard it already and then the difficulty level wouldn´t even have been an issue worth mentioning!

Like I said I don´t have a problem with new gamers being able to play the game, but I just wish there would be some challenge for us more experienced dudes. Difficult levels or something.

[mothra]

well, i'm pretty satisfied with how the game played out.
if they can keep up the good jokes (my fav: try the dry plant in the office, max's response had me fallin off my chair) everything is good.

but, hell yeah, those old S&M HTR times are gone, man.
no more ball of twine/fishmagnet/helicoper puzzles (my fav from HTR)

hope they make enough money to keep S&M "light" goin for a few seasons.
YOU HAVE MY MONEY !

:D :D :D

[Rowne]

I quite enjoyed it myself. I'd have to say that my least favourite scene was the sitcom piece because I'm really not into American sitcom humour, there are a lot of things I 'get' but that just isn't one of them, really. However, there were also some absolutely wonderful pieces. Embarrasing Idol was marvellous and it felt very LucasArtsy in the way Sam wrangled and man-handled the competition, leading to one, lone result.

Overall I had a blast but I will say this, if I can't get Sam's singing out of my head soon, I will kill Telltale. Ahem, that is all.

Good job, guys.

[schuubars]

Hey! If you had fucked up those things you surely would have heard it already and then the difficulty level wouldn´t even have been an issue worth mentioning!

Like I said I don´t have a problem with new gamers being able to play the game, but I just wish there would be some challenge for us more experienced dudes. Difficult levels or something.

Hmm like a pro mode? (MI2 as ex.) woul'd be fine imo.

Telltale you have my money, but after the 4 Jan.. :P

At least you are trying to build little bridges for the time between release for non gametap users. ;)

[ShaggE]

So, if your entertained by the game, why is the puzzle difficulty such a huge issue? It sounds like you enjoyed playing it, so.... where's the beef? Can't expect 6 new Hit the Roads, after all.

[Kunkku-Antti]

Well, the whole gaming experience (IMO) contains three things:

1. The artistic awesomeness, like music, visual art etc... It doesn´t have to be high tech mega-awesome ultra hyper latest anti alias technology 3d things. It just has to look sound and good. What does it look like, how was it made or is it the latest technology doesn´t matter, the art has to fit, look and feel good. It could be just Super Mario 1 -quality or it could also be Doom 3 -quality. So, the tools doesn´t matter, but the artists have to be good. All the dialogue and other things are also included in this category so I could say that it´s an artistic impression category. Telltale succeeded in this with Sam and Max episode 1.

2. The gameplay. It has to work well. You know, however it is done it has to work. The optimal situation would be a that after learning all the controls and gameplay mechanincs they become just a tool to transfer player´s thoughts into the game. Well, I can´t see how Telltale couldn´t have succeeded in this category.

3. The third category is very crucial to a video game. It´s the challenge. It´s like a game developer comes to me and challenge´s me to a duel. The ultimate insult would be though that the challenge that the duel has to offer is next to nothing. It´s like "how do you even dare to insult me with such a weak challenge" -thing. It´s like a duel with guns and the opponent doesn´t have bullets. I play games, not just to entertain myself with them but to also see how could I win a challenge.

[schuubars]

So, if your entertained by the game, why is the puzzle difficulty such a huge issue? It sounds like you enjoyed playing it, so.... where's the beef? Can't expect 6 new Hit the Roads, after all.

You are right it is entertaining(or it was), i played ep one 3 or 4 times, at least two time to understand all humor(my english isn't very good. ;) )

But it is too easy, to some parts i agree with telltale, it's hard to access the casual gamers if the difficulty is too hard but what about raise the difficulty in between the episode?

I think 2-4 hard puzzles in a ep. would not hurt the casual gamer. (or make some puzzles so stupid easy that they are hard to solve, sry can't describe it right... but such puzzles are the best imo) ;)

Sure a other tactic would be to spread sam and max with the episodes(easy puzzles), and then create a bomb sam and max 15-25 hour adventure, but i don't think that's the plan from telltale. *g*

Btw we don't need 5-6 hit the roads, that would kill the franchise for sure(at least until someone digs it out after some jears. ;) )


Btw2, i don't think that the ep. are to short, add all together and you have a nice fullgame(at least telltale mentioned a slight bigger plot behind all episodes), and a nice bang for buck ratio too.
So, they don't need to create more content, but some nice hard'er puzzles would raise the playtime for self up. IMO
Sure not to much because some peps. woul'd then think that they are trying cheat with the playtime.

Yeah i bet most peoples that are criticise the difficulty are oldtimers(as my self, ok bad word for it. :D )
So Telltale has a good position now they have the chance to make the perfect(or almost) balance for us oldtimers, and for the new ones.

Just don't make it the same way as UBI did with their GR and RB6 franchise they left the oldtimer almost alone to reach the casual gamers.(features that made this franchises big killed ubi because it is againt console politics(in some ways).
That was their big mistaker because the simlike features was mostly optional for casuals, but if someone had needs for the possibilities of the Games they could use it....and now? ;)


Maybe i just typed a bunch of sh.t here down but i love games as much i love to create them(DCC).

[Sir Lemming]

http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/sammaxepisode2situationcomedy/review.html


Ha. They said they kept the same actors.

[Udvarnoky]

He does sound very similar to the other guy, so I'm not surprised that some people don't notice. I think it's actually an improvement. As someone else noted he doesn't sound as strained.

[ShaggE]

3. The third category is very crucial to a video game. It´s the challenge. It´s like a game developer comes to me and challenge´s me to a duel. The ultimate insult would be though that the challenge that the duel has to offer is next to nothing. It´s like "how do you even dare to insult me with such a weak challenge" -thing. It´s like a duel with guns and the opponent doesn´t have bullets. I play games, not just to entertain myself with them but to also see how could I win a challenge.

That's a good way of putting it, I can't say I entirely agree, but now I understand your POV. The reason I don't agree: Look at, say, Postal 2. The game is even easier than Sam and Max, because it's a "sandbox" style game. Yet, I keep coming back to it because in some twisted way, the pointless unchallenging mayhem is surprisingly addictive. Sure, it's satisfying to finally outwit a brutal challenge, but sometimes it's endless fun to shut down all thought processes and let your hands do all the work. I think that's why multiplayer FPSs are so popular. It hits the fine balance between skill and twitch, where shooting at every moving polygon or pixel is just as good a technique as racking your brain for a strategy in most titles.

I like to challenge my mind, but it's hard to argue that there's anything more fulfilling in a game than using pure instinct and animal reasoning to take out that moron who keeps calling you a "n00b". :P

[matan]

Well, the whole gaming experience (IMO) contains three things:

1. The artistic awesomeness, like music, visual art etc... It doesn´t have to be high tech mega-awesome ultra hyper latest anti alias technology 3d things. It just has to look sound and good. What does it look like, how was it made or is it the latest technology doesn´t matter, the art has to fit, look and feel good. It could be just Super Mario 1 -quality or it could also be Doom 3 -quality. So, the tools doesn´t matter, but the artists have to be good. All the dialogue and other things are also included in this category so I could say that it´s an artistic impression category. Telltale succeeded in this with Sam and Max episode 1.

2. The gameplay. It has to work well. You know, however it is done it has to work. The optimal situation would be a that after learning all the controls and gameplay mechanincs they become just a tool to transfer player´s thoughts into the game. Well, I can´t see how Telltale couldn´t have succeeded in this category.

3. The third category is very crucial to a video game. It´s the challenge. It´s like a game developer comes to me and challenge´s me to a duel. The ultimate insult would be though that the challenge that the duel has to offer is next to nothing. It´s like "how do you even dare to insult me with such a weak challenge" -thing. It´s like a duel with guns and the opponent doesn´t have bullets. I play games, not just to entertain myself with them but to also see how could I win a challenge.

Actually, I don't agree at all. I think adventure games are different from most video games in that the main concern is just playing out a story. The most important thing is to tell a good story, and to do it in a way that makes you feel involved in the story. For me, adventure games are just another form of storytelling art, like books or movies. In that respect, I think the puzzles in adventure games are mostly there to make you feel as if you're the one advancing the plot, and also as if you're actually playing one of the characters in that plot.

Many very good (in my opinion) adventure games have no puzzles at all (mainly IF games, like All Roads) or they are extremely easy (Sanitarium) or they are very well hidden and you don't really feel like you're solving puzzles at all but only feel like you're advancing the plot (The Last Express).

Hard puzzles can be sort of an added bonus if they're not annoying, but it's hard to make a small game with tough puzzles which aren't annoying...

[ShaggE]

Sanitarium: Great example of easy puzzles done right.

I think the only time puzzle difficulty ever ruined a game for me was with The Neverhood. The puzzles were easy, but they took a very long time to do, and the game would reset the puzzle progress if you decided to come back to it later. (The giant Memory game comes to mind) I love the Neverhood, but the puzzles were horrid. (and don't get me started on Skullmonkeys... another great game ruined by horrendous difficulty)

[numble]

Speaking of challenging games, I've just been trying out Myst Online: Uru Live lately, since I'm a Gametap subscriber--it's an interesting and compelling game, but man is it a challenging game--levers, switches, and buttons galore, as well as things such as learning a new numbering system. I really didn't feel like I had the patience to work through the game (it really is not a game you can play in under-1-hour-spurts), but it seems to be right up the alley of the challenge lovers among you.

As a side note, I find it slightly amusing that there is a Myst fan on the Sam and Max hints forums asking for hints and saying that they aren't really good at "Sam and Max" types of games, Myst being a hallmark of challenging puzzles and all that... I think it's almost obvious that Myst-experience doesn't really translate well to Point-and-Click experience.

[Hero1]

yeah solving a puzzle in myst and solving a puzzle in say day of the tentacle or grim fandango are completely different things :p one is fun the other is not :rolleyes:

[ShaggE]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Myst. The original drove me apesh*t with it's difficulty lol. I never played the sequels, the first game ruined it for me. Altho an MMO Adventure game sounds quite appealing. Didn't Shivers 2 have a semi-multiplayer feature where you could exchange hints with other players?

[Mishakun]

Being a European I just got the game. And I solved it quite quickly and even though it was funnier, the puzzles were not as difficult as episode 1. I also have to ask...

Why didn't you keep the Soda Poppers theme as ending? The Office theme felt like it ruined closing up the episode... :/

Given the easy difficulty and unsatisfying "closure", I still liked the episode a lot. British Bosco (with the joke about which language he is speaking) and the Soda Poppers bleeped out cracked me up. It was priceless when Specs wants to *bleep* his brother. :D