What's more important? Story or Puzzles?

[Ezny]

'Which do you think makes a better adventure game? Great story, or, Great puzzles?'

Just curious what people's position is on this.

Obviously they're BOTH important, but which one do you think trumps the other?


Oh and this is concerning adventure games, of course.

edit: Not voting until a few others do, not that it will influence my vote in any way. Let me know [or let mods know actually] if you think there should be additional poll options.

Equally important will not be an option.

[GinnyN]

Equally important will not be an option.

Why not?

[coolsome]

story for me which is why tales is my fav monkey island game

[Avistew]

I don't think I can answer that. For me in a good adventure game they're so intertwined that it's actually the exact same thing.

[jeeno0142]

100% story. I couldn't care less about the graphics of the game, just so long as it runs smooth. Some of my friends will only play a game if the graphics are all high tech. Puzzles are important, but story much more so.

[plrichard]

I don't think either is more important. A game with a bad story can be elevated by great puzzles and a game with bad puzzles can be elevated by a great story.

[Majus]

I say story, since it’s the first thing you begin with when making an adventure-game. It’s also the motivation for the player to solve puzzles at all, isn’t it?

[Ezny]

Why not?

Because then everyone would vote 'equally important.' :rolleyes:

[Ezny]

I say story, since it’s the first thing you begin with when making an adventure-game. It’s also the motivation for the player to solve puzzles at all, isn’t it?

That's a good point.


edit: oops sorry fer double post, all.


Ok what about this, what if [hypothetically speaking] there were an adventure game that had an AMAZING story, but the puzzles were super weak, like even for 5th graders? How would you rate this game, say on a scale of 1/10?


Then, what if another had the opposite. AMAZING puzzles [whatever that may mean to you] but the story is so awfully boring and who could care less? How would you rate that game?


double edit: actually I realize this is pretty irrelevant.

[puzzlebox]

I think that if you have one without the other, it's not an adventure game.

[Ezny]

I think that if you have one without the other, it's not an adventure game.

Well I would have to agree with that. Do you think either of them will make an adventure game better or worse for that matter?

[Ezny]

It’s also the motivation for the player to solve puzzles at all, isn’t it?

Also, to someone who is just discovering adventure games I would say this is 100% true.

But to a veteran or experienced adventure gamer, I think solving fun new puzzles, in general, adds to the motivation.

[Kroms]

Crazy game design related thing: in a well designed adventure game, the story IS the puzzle. Think of Curse of Monkey Island and how almost every puzzle, especially on Blood, involves Guybrush trying to save Elaine.

A similar principle applies to most games, actually. Half the reason game writing is so shit 99% of the time is that you're always sent off on long periods to do some random, unrelated secondary mission. Kills any pacing.

[Avistew]

Yeah, that's what I was saying, they're the same.
Just imagine a novel, or a movie. The hero has a problem, and needs to overcome obstacles to solve that problem. That's the story.
Obviously, that's also the puzzles when it goes from book/movie to adventure game.

I just can't see how they could be separate so I can't say which is more important, they're the same thing as far as I'm concerned. What makes a good adventure game IS making sure that they're the same thing (so, no puzzles that have nothing to do with anything, for instance).

[Linque]

I feel like great puzzles can't elevate a game with just an ok story as high as a great story can elevate a game with just ok puzzles.

Then again, I absolutely love Professor Layton games which ride exclusively on the puzzles. So I kind of contradict myself here.

[Ezny]

Here' my opinion:

It is a game after all. If the actual gameplay is somehow less important than the story, why make it into a game?

Of course they're both very important, and the game would suffer as a whole if either were weak. But for me, I think puzzles have a slightly higher priority because they are what makes the game a game after all.

If the puzzles are not challenging enough, it's more like I'm just 'turning the pages' so to speak to further the story, rather than rising up to a challenge and feeling like I actually accomplished something. I think this is the core of what gaming is, isn't it? Feeling like you rose to a challenge and accomplished a goal.

When I play an adventure game, I'm always looking forward to enjoying a new storyline, but I also want to play a game, and be challenged. If I didn't want that, I'd just watch a movie or read a comic ect ect.

However, with that said I DO think there are some adventure games that did cross the line and make them OVERLY difficult to solve [Discworld comes to mind] but for me personally that never affected the story for me in a negative way.

I don't think too much stress should be put on pacing either. After all everyone is going to explore the game world in a different way, and at their own different pace. I don't see any need to push the game forward at a regulated tempo. Maybe that's just me though.

I wish I coud explain this better, that's the best I can do for now.

I'm not referring to any games in particular, just adventure games in general.


edit: and I do agree that the puzzles should be related to the story, and not just puzzles thrown in for puzzling sake.

[Jenny]

I can't possibly vote on this one, because what makes a great adventure game is that the story and plot run along side by side, seamlessly. Every story has conflict and problems that need to be worked out. Playing as the hero in an adventure game is the same as a book, you just don't get told what to do next in an adventure game, you have to figure it out yourself. Which is what makes it so much fun.

Although, there have been maze puzzle and other things that seem a little out of the context of the story, but if they are integrated well enough, they don't need to seem forced.

If you are talking about the amount of uncontrolled story (cutscenes) versus puzzles (meaning the walking around and figuring stuff out) than I would say the puzzles should have more time in the game. I never liked watching endless cutscenes. I want to play the game myself to figure out the story.

[Ezny]

I feel like great puzzles can't elevate a game with just an ok story as high as a great story can elevate a game with just ok puzzles.

I have to disagree, but that's just me.

[doodinthemood]

I said story, which is odd, because puzzles are the only thing I would consider essential. There are a good few adventure games out there where I've not understood the story one bit, but still enjoyed solving the puzzles and stuff, but I cannot think of a single adventure game where I've understood the story and not the puzzles.

I guess while puzzles are the 'fun' bit, in order for a game to really excel, it should draw you into its world, and can only do that with a first rate story.
Is my view anyway.

[Ezny]

I guess this is like asking: What's more important? The cereal or the milk? :D

I understand what you guys are saying.


Oh and I don't mean cut scene time... Just in general.

edit: ok how 'bout this? 'Which do you think makes a better adventure game? Great story, or, Great puzzles?'
Less confusing?

edit: I give mods full permission to make that the OP title, but I'm not sure if it will fit... At any rate I give you permission to change the poll's question to that... please? :D

[Ezny]

in order for a game to really excel, it should draw you into its world, and can only do that with a first rate story.

That's true.

[JedExodus]

Story, I need to be invested in the going on's before I try using banna peel with magnet

[Ezny]

A game with a bad story can be elevated by great puzzles and a game with bad puzzles can be elevated by a great story.

I do agree with this though.

[Avistew]

It is a game after all. If the actual gameplay is somehow less important than the story, why make it into a game?

Well, if you just see it as a method of storytelling that calls for more immersion, it makes perfect sense. There is no sense asking why something is made as a novel if everything is pronounceable, therefore it could be an audiobook, and everything is drawable, therefore it could be a graphic novel, and everything is filmable, therefore it could be a movie.
It's just the method of storytelling, although if there are no puzzles it makes for a boring story, but in my opinion it would be equally as boring told in another way, since the puzzles are the development of the story.

Then again, I absolutely love Professor Layton games which ride exclusively on the puzzles. So I kind of contradict myself here.

I personally would call that a "puzzle game", not an "adventure game". I feel they're different, in adventure games solving the puzzle is making the character progress, it's not "solve this riddle for me and I'll let you go", it's "I'm imprisoned and need to escape, what should I do?".
If the puzzles are completely unrelated I just don't consider it an adventure game, because it's not a story anymore, it's a placeholder for puzzles.

Similarly, story without puzzles wouldn't be an adventure game but a somewhat interactive movie.

I guess this is like asking: What's more important? The cereal or the milk? :D

The cereal, of course :D Most people I know (actually, currently, all people I know) have their cereal with something other than milk in it.

[Remolay]

I don't care of equal isn't a choice, my choice is equal.

If you have a horrible story and great puzzles you will think "What's going on? Why am I doing this? This makes no sense at all"

If you have a great story and bad puzzles you will think, "This is boring, why even put the puzzles in?"

[GuybrushWilco]

I think that you can have a good enough adventure game if it has a lame story, but great puzzles. I do not think you can have a good adventure game with a great story, if the puzzles make no sense are are just lame :). I'd go with puzzles overall, but you can never have a GREAT game without both :). I may get slack for this, but I never liked the first Discworld game, and never played the others, because the puzzles in the first game were just completely illogical and nonsensical. Maybe I would have understood it better if I had read any of the books.

[The Highway]

Because then everyone would vote 'equally important.' :rolleyes:

But they are!

[tredlow]

If you have a horrible story and great puzzles you will think "What's going on? Why am I doing this? This makes no sense at all

I still like The Neverhood, though.

[Rather Dashing]

If there is no GAME, then it is not a good game. In a game, the interactive elements are the most important, and in adventures those are the puzzles. A game without good puzzles can't keep my interest, because I don't feel like I'm engaged by the game.

[tredlow]

Well, I like The Neverhood, which has a story that's not that great, but the puzzles are good. I also like Dreamfall 2: The Longest Journey, which has a good story, but the puzzles aren't really clever.

[The Highway]

What about the ridiculous plot twists in professor layton?

[tredlow]

What about the ridiculous plot twists in professor layton?

Spoiler: EVERY CHARACTER ARE ROBOTS!!!

Just kidding.

[The Highway]

no, you aren't kidding.

Spoiler: IN THE SECOND GAME ALL THE CHARACTER'S ARE HIGH!!!

Unfortunately, not kidding. :p

[Hayden]

Story. For me, there's hardly any reason to play an adventure game if it hasn't got a decent story. Puzzles aren't enough. Puzzles, of course, need to be good as well. But where's the incentive to even do and complete the puzzles if there isn't a good story to accompany them? Adventure games, to me, are about completing puzzles in order to unlock the next part of the story. Why would I even want to do the puzzles if the story is continually rubbish. Then it becomes like a job or a chore.

[VeronicanPlay]

Well story for me, if the story ain't there then you are not interested in solving the puzzles.
I mean take MI4 as an example (sorry for doing that), the puzzles was very clever but the story was really lacking, which is one of the main reasons people dislike it.

Well what I think anyway.

[Sausy Gibbon]

I'd have to say story, if a game has a good story and bad puzzles, I would be more likely to keep playing, less so if the situation was reversed. But on the other hand I was playing Heavy Rain (not really an adventure game) recently and just stopped playing it because there wasn't enough interactivity, I think I could just get the same expierience watching any old mediocre TV drama while pressing the X button on my controller.

[The Highway]

ok how 'bout this? 'Which do you think makes a better adventure game? Great story, or, Great puzzles?'
Less confusing?
Well, in that case, I'd have to say puzzles, because otherwise there'd BE no "game", per-say.

[Avistew]

Well, in that case, I'd have to say puzzles, because otherwise there'd BE no "game", per-say.

Well, the way I see it, without puzzles it's not a game, without a story it's not an adventure, either way it's not an adventure game anymore.

[splash1]

I'd both things make a good adventure game, if all you put in was a good storyline and easy to solve puzzles, then it's not much of a game.

But if you put in a equal amount of challenging puzzles and really good story, it's a game worth your time.

[tredlow]

Depends on whether 'bad puzzles' mean frustrating and unsolvable or too easy. If it's too easy, then I wouldn't mind as long as the story is interesting.