Star Wars in unison is AMAZING

[doodo!]

I tired watching all six movies back to back, I got to Empire Strikes Back and fell asleep. This is because I watched them at night and not during the day. That was my mistake. Though the first three movies in unison are EPIC. George Lucas clearly reviewed before he went on to his next project (next episode).

I'm a fan boy, and I love all the Star Wars movies.
I never really had a full grasp on how wonderful they were, until I tried watching them all in order. I was actually amazed by how much more depth and feeling they all have.

If you don't watch all 6 in order, at least give the prequels another chance.
I have so much more respect for the prequels, and a closer understanding to what they're all about. Every scene is totally necessary.
Watching in unison I got such a deeper and truer sense of the characters. I didn't even get pissy that the Anakin we know became Darth Vader. His transformation was so much more sincere and comprehensive ,when seeing it develop and pan out over a stream of "consciousness" (over three movies).

I am going to attempt this again. The characters were well written, everything makes sense. I never really knew how great the movies all were together. I had problems with Hayden Christen's performances and thought ROTS was poorly acted, but having witnessed his life and observing his character closely throughout his life and seeing the dark side in Palpatine, I truly understood every scene.

[taumel]

I remember jumping rather late on the Battlestar Galactica bandwagon but due to this i could watch a lot of episodes in a rather short timeframe, which was quite entertaining.

Star Wars I was epic, Star Wars II was great as well (curse you George Lucas for that cliffhanger), Star Wars III was only great in the beginning, later on the Ewoks ruined the film. Episode 1 was just dissapointing, episode 2 was a little bit better and episode 3 was kind of fun but it was doomed by that you already knew how things would end up, so dunno. Star Wars definately inspired many of us in their youth but later on things turned more into a meh direction as there do exist much better sf movies, not even to mention sf books or all the Star Wars monoculture drama.

[doodo!]

I remember jumping rather late on the Battlestar Galactica bandwagon but due to this i could watch a lot of episodes in a rather short timeframe, which was quite entertaining.

Star Wars I was epic, Star Wars II was great as well (curse you George Lucas for that cliffhanger), Star Wars III was only great in the beginning, later on the Ewoks ruined the film. Episode 1 was just dissapointing, episode 2 was a little bit better and episode 3 was kind of fun but it was doomed by that you already knew how things would end up, so dunno. Star Wars definately inspired many of us in their youth but later on things turned more into a meh direction as there do exist much better sf movies, not even to mention sf books.

I thought people were boycotting this thread, I wish you had replied to the other one. I note just one reason why the first three episodes are vital and justified for the saga.

[taumel]

I prefer ruining things in a more unexpected/unwanted way. :O)

[doodo!]

I prefer ruining things in a more unexpected/unwanted way. :O)

You did it just to soil me! :p I'm going to post the video clips that tie it all together in my other thread

[der_ketzer]

The prequels got me hooked on the series. There is a lot of unneeded stuff in it that mostly revolves around JarJar. (what was the fishes attacking the boat under water for? Why were they not at all reacting to being eaten???? Why do we need a fart-joke in Episode 1?

I never got into Episodes 4-6 until I watched the prequels (until the clonewars after seeing that in the cinema I was totally hooked and Episode III was far away).
When Episode III was released I went to see it and got my cousin hooked on the prequels with the DVDs afterwards. So I was "forced" to see it again with him in the cinema.


tl;dr:
I really like every movie in the series, the prequels have a lot of unnecessary stuff in it but they got me hooked on the series and are great fun to watch.

[Hayden]

I'm looking forward Rather Dashing discovering this thread.

[Rather Dashing]

The prequels are not only bad movies. They aren't only bad entries in an otherwise good series. They are insults to every single person that watches them, and people who enjoy them cannot possibly have any barometer for quality. This isn't like Day of the Tentacle or Curse of Monkey Island, where at the end of the day they're solid products that can be enjoyed on their own merits. No, the prequel films are shallow, crude, clinical advertisements for a new wave of merchandising.

The prequels themselves are completely unnecessary. The Phantom Menace is, of course, the worst offender. What is the plot? What are the motivations of the bad guys, this Trade Federation? What about Maul?

If you actually think about ANY one aspect or plot point of the entirety of Phantom Menace, it falls apart. If you try and connect it to the original trilogy, it is absolutely torn apart. The prequels, as films, do not have the depth, weight, continuity, or consistency to hold up against even the lightest of scrutiny. I can only assume that people who enjoy the prequels do not actually enjoy films, but instead love to peruse tech demos and shiny objects.

There is nothing redeemable or good about the prequels. Their very existence is disgusting, they are not Star Wars films, and to call them "films" is a stretch and a technicality so unabashedly abused that it makes a man sick just to think about it.

Sorry about being vague. Nothing specific was actually said in FAVOR of the artistic abortions.

[der_ketzer]

The prequels themselves are completely unnecessary. The Phantom Menace is, of course, the worst offender. What is the plot? What are the motivations of the bad guys, this Trade Federation? What about Maul?

Stop asking these questions or George Lucas will have to make 3 prprequels to answer them...

[Tor]

Star Wars I was epic, Star Wars II was great as well (curse you George Lucas for that cliffhanger), Star Wars III was only great in the beginning, later on the Ewoks ruined the film.
Please call them episodes 4, 5 and 6 or IV, V, VI... Calling the old trilogy I, II and III and the new trilogy 1, 2 and 3 makes it a tiny bit ambiguous... :p

[taumel]

Doesn't make sense to me as i grew up with I, II and III and after that there came e1, e2 and e3.

[Avistew]

Even before they made 1, 2 and 3 the old trilogy was called 4, 5 and 6. I remember asking about that and being told he was planning on making another trilogy before it at some point.
Then of course he actually did.

Since it's actually part of the name, it makes sense to use that numbering. However I agree that the best order to see them would be order of release. The prequel trilogy spoils a lot of the original trilogy if you watch it first, however if you watch it afterwards you can see it as a way to "tie loose ends" and stuff. I think if they had been done with the purpose of being watched first they would have been done much differently (especially the end of 3)

[taumel]

That's the way i remember Star Wars and not by some obscure numbering in the 3d scroller:

http://www.deutsches-filminstitut.de/hdf/pic/star_wars_plakat_gr.jpg

[Tor]

Doesn't make sense to me as i grew up with I, II and III
Yep, what Avistew said is correct, the official titles have always been IV,* V and VI and the new trilogy is officially I, II, III... so your convention will probably confuse the rest of us.

*) Strictly speaking, the first movie was called only "Star Wars" when it came out, I think they added the episode number and the "New Hope" title only when the movies were released on home video. To my knowledge, Empire and Return have always had "Episode V" and "Episode VI" as part of their titles though.

Edit:
[German poster]
They didn't use the episode numbers in your country? That explains the confusion. Best to stick to the English numbering convention in an English-language forum though :p

[taumel]

Dann schreibe ich halt zukünftig in Deutsch. :O)

[Tor]

Dann schreibe ich halt zukünftig in Deutsch. :O)
Ach, scheisse... Deutsch ist zu schwer für mich.
I admit my defeat, use whichever numbers you want ;)

[Iryon]

Dann schreibe ich halt zukünftig in Deutsch. :O)

That's unfair for all those who don't understand German.

Of course ... wenn eck Platt schruiben dei, denn küönns diu dao äok nich onnik kleok von weierden.

Es sei denn, du kennst dich im Niederdeutschen aus.

[taumel]

Ach, scheisse... Deutsch ist zu schwer für mich.
I admit my defeat, use whichever numbers you want ;)
Peace! ;O)

[doodo!]

I'm looking forward Rather Dashing discovering this thread.

Was it worth it? It was rather expected for me. Extremely opinionated, and cynical and then makes attacks to anyone who thinks differently.

[DarthBo]

Was it worth it? It was rather expected for me. Extremely opinionated, and cynical and then makes attacks to anyone who thinks differently.
He's right though, how anyone in his right mind can say "Every scene is totally necessary" about the prequels is beyond me.

You can like the prequels, I suppose, especially if you're a kid. Kids love teletubbies as well.
The acting is horrible, the dialogues are awful, the plot is non-existant... and worst of all: it breaks continuity with the original trilogy.
It's like George never even saw the originals.

I love Star Wars and I love Empire Strikes Back, I don't mind Return of the Jedi too much, but the others... yuck

[doodo!]

He's right though, how anyone in his right mind can say "Every scene is totally necessary" about the prequels is beyond me.

You can like the prequels, I suppose, especially if you're a kid. Kids love teletubbies as well.
The acting is horrible, the dialogues are awful, the plot is non-existant... and worst of all: it breaks continuity with the original trilogy.
It's like George never even saw the originals.

I love Star Wars and I love Empire Strikes Back, I don't mind Return of the Jedi too much, but the others... yuck

I think you're wrong. I'm 22 years old and I like the prequels and I hated the teletubbies. I think you assume too much.

Ha, George Lucas has never been that amazing with dialog, the most famous lines are either well delivered or extremely simple and so remember able.

"No, I am your father."

'Leave that to me."

"The circle is now complete, when I left you I was but the learner and now I am the master."

"Stay on target"

"Gah...."

"Stand by...."

"WOOOHOOO"

"NERFERTER!"

"Use the force Luke"

"Do, or do not there is no try"

"Great shot kid, that was one in a million"

"You don't need to see our identification, these aren't the droids you're looking for, you can go about your business, move a long..."

I mean, that is just mind blowing Shakespearean work there...

They have plots lol, Half of the original trilogy focuses on the career of Harrison Ford and Leia and Han solo, spawning a whole expanded universe where they have a large family where their lives are furthered revealed in 1000s of novelizations...

Rescuing Leia, Oh rescuing Han, Oh Rescuing Han again, rescuing Leia again, you get the idea. You could easily attack the original three for sort of dancing around the whole Jedi/ Sith plot, which the new 3 most definitely don't skip around very much if at all.

You could argue that the original 3 are broken up and have un-necessary side quests...lots of filler in the original 3, lots. Even if it is justified I wouldn't say that the narrative of Star Wars has EVER been linear.

How does it break continuity? Should we have seen the early life of Han Solo?

Maybe you think we should have followed around Han Solo's parents instead of Anakin and Padame?

[Astro Gnocci]

I think if they had been done with the purpose of being watched first they would have been done much differently (especially the end of 3)

Yeah... Maybe they would have tried to write an actual story.

It's not even that the prequels' plot doesn't make sense, it mainly that it's, well... USELESS.
We already knew that darth vader had been a good guy who had fallen to the dark side and blabla... Did we need to know anymore of it ? "Sure", i yelled when i was 12 and the prequels were anounced, but having watched them now, i just think it ruined all the coolness of the character (and that's not even because the character of anakin was lame or anything, even if he was)

[taumel]

The prequels were packed with capable actors like Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, Samuel L. Jackson, Natalie Portman, Keira Knightley, ... but they didn't use all this potential properly, although there also were a few good Jedi scenes.

Oh and how could you beat him?! :O)

http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/actors_films_images/star_wars_han_solo.jpg

I wonder how many discussions there have been around if Natalie Portman beats Carrie Fisher.

[Secret Fawful]

Oh and how could you beat him?! :O)

http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/actors_films_images/star_wars_han_solo.jpg

You can't.

[coolsome]

*dreamy sigh*

[der_ketzer]

You can't.

you can.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/3079980699_f822881493_o.jpg


I wonder how many discussions there have been around if Natalie Portman beats Carrie Fisher.

None. It is clear that Natalie is hotter. You cannot beat the hottest woman on this planet.

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt54/Harry9871/NataliePortman.jpg

[Rather Dashing]

He's right though, how anyone in his right mind can say "Every scene is totally necessary" about the prequels is beyond me.

You can like the prequels, I suppose, especially if you're a kid. Kids love teletubbies as well.
The acting is horrible, the dialogues are awful, the plot is non-existant... and worst of all: it breaks continuity with the original trilogy.
It's like George never even saw the originals.

I love Star Wars and I love Empire Strikes Back, I don't mind Return of the Jedi too much, but the others... yuck
There are things that bother me about Return of the Jedi, but it has too much good for me to even say "I don't mind it". All the interaction between Luke and his father, the final redemption, the culmination of the love story for Han and Leia, the revelation that Leia is Luke's sister, Luke's progression as a Jedi, and a bunch of other necessary ends that desperately need to be tied off. It's overall satisfying, I think. Not as great in structure as the first two, but overall a solid and distinctly classic film.

What do you have in the prequels? Trade disputes that no viewer is going to understand. There is a trade federation running a blockade of Naboo. Why. There's some disagreement over taxes and tariffs, says the crawl. Okay, cool, but what makes Naboo important? Why is there such a thing as a legal blockade? Why does Palpatine keep having his minions try desperately to essentially thwart him? A "legal invasion"(whatever the hell that menas) would have completely ruined Palpatine's machinations, and yet if it weren't for a couple Jedi whose completely nonsensical judgement is only matched by the stupidity of their opponents, the treaty would have been signed and Palaptine would be back on square 1.

Doodoo, continuity has nothing to do with following characters around from the original trilogy. In fact, that we see R2D2 and C-3PO at all is horribly straining. What is the liklihood that two random droids would so happen to stumble into both adventures? The thing is, they don't belong in the prequels, and that they're in the movies hurts the credibility of the story. In Episode VI, we're told that Yoda is the Jedi that trained Obi-Wan. We're told that Obi-Wan was as bothersome as Luke as a pupil. And yet, we get Qui-Gon anyway. We're told that Leia remembers her mother, and that she was very sad, and yet Padme died in childbirth. We get this idea that Obi-Wan and Anakin were good friends, and the whole Master/Apprentice relationship along with both of them constantly yelling at each other with only sidelong comments saying "Oh that adventure we had was pretty neat huh way over there off screen I HATE YOU!" to indicate that they might like each other at all.

[Secret Fawful]

you can.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/3079980699_f822881493_o.jpg

No. You can't. I didn't like Spaceballs except for Rick Moranis. At all.

[Rather Dashing]

Not a big fan of Spaceballs myself. A few good gags here and there, I guess. Mel Brooks can do much better.

[Friar]

The prequels are not only bad movies. They aren't only bad entries in an otherwise good series. They are insults to every single person that watches them, and people who enjoy them cannot possibly have any barometer for quality. This isn't like Day of the Tentacle or Curse of Monkey Island, where at the end of the day they're solid products that can be enjoyed on their own merits. No, the prequel films are shallow, crude, clinical advertisements for a new wave of merchandising.

The prequels themselves are completely unnecessary. The Phantom Menace is, of course, the worst offender. What is the plot? What are the motivations of the bad guys, this Trade Federation? What about Maul?

If you actually think about ANY one aspect or plot point of the entirety of Phantom Menace, it falls apart. If you try and connect it to the original trilogy, it is absolutely torn apart. The prequels, as films, do not have the depth, weight, continuity, or consistency to hold up against even the lightest of scrutiny. I can only assume that people who enjoy the prequels do not actually enjoy films, but instead love to peruse tech demos and shiny objects.

There is nothing redeemable or good about the prequels. Their very existence is disgusting, they are not Star Wars films, and to call them "films" is a stretch and a technicality so unabashedly abused that it makes a man sick just to think about it.

Sorry about being vague. Nothing specific was actually said in FAVOR of the artistic abortions.

I agree that the plot of the first film was very thin, and what was there was too complicated (trade agreements? WTF?), but the action was pretty good. At least as good, if not better than the original trilogy. Considering the only plot twists i can remember from those films are "Obi-wan dies", "i am your father" and "i am your brother", i don't think thats too bad. Episode II was better than Episode I in the plot respect (well, ignoring the necessary, but terrible romance scenes) but lacked in the action aspect.

EpIII struck the perfect balance, and, despite everyone knowing how the plot was going to end, threw in a twist (The chancellor guy was the sith lord?! I should have seen it before!), plus the action was amazing, and Ewan Mcgreggor's (Obi-wan kenobi) acting was amazing. Their were some powerful scenes in that film. Watched in unison, for me, the prequels are far greater than the originals. The third being the best (however, the order i like the others varies with my mood)

I guess it boils down to what you are looking for in the star wars films. Plot or action. Personally, i preffer the plot of "Knights of the old republic" to any of the films.

Plus the prequels served their purpose of getting a whole new generation interested in starwars. I hadn't even heard of it before phantom menace (and it took me a while to like the originals)

Also as to the fact they have no

[Rather Dashing]

I agree that the plot of the first film was very thin, and what was there was too complicated (trade agreements? WTF?), but the action was pretty good. At least as good, if not better than the original trilogy. Considering the only plot twists i can remember from those films are "Obi-wan dies", "i am your father" and "i am your brother", i don't think thats too bad. Episode II was better than Episode I in the plot respect (well, ignoring the necessary, but terrible romance scenes) but lacked in the action aspect.
It's easy to say that the action in the prequel trilogy is good. The problem is that it isn't, because an action scene(just like any other scene) has to be set up in such a way that it has some connection to the narrative. If you look at the Jedi action scenes in the prequel trilogy, they lack any sense of emotion. They're clinical, choreographed dances that are meant to dazzle, but they don't belong in a film that should have some semblance of context and drama. You're looking at characters who, when it's time to fight, turn into interpretive dancers. In the Original Trilogy, the emphasis was on something far more important. The combat was an externalization of something intensely internal. It was not just a choreographed dance, but an expression of things that are intensely important to an understanding of the characters as people and thus the entire progression of the story. Everything is done in such a sterile way that we never get a sense that any of these characters care about anything they do at any given point, and so the action scene fails despite being a very impressively shiny advertisement for innumerable lines of toys.

The plot of the second movie is not good. People do things for absolutely no reason. Why are Anakin and padme on Naboo? Because we need romance scenes in Venice, yes, but other than that. Why is Anakin the one sent there, considering that Obi-Wan and tech eyepatch guy seem to know they're a couple horribly horny kids? Why are they avoiding assassins without any regard for security? Anakin is there for her protection, but if she's just fine without any security protocol then why is he even there?

Anakin is not a believable person, and we also don't really believe that anyone could love him, at least not someone as strong and intelligent as Padme is intended to be. He's an insane murderer already, he's an ego-maniacal whiner, and he supports fascism and dictatorships obscenely openly. These things are meant to make the transformation to Darth Vader make sense, "Oh, he already had these tendencies", but it works against the franchise's narrative as a whole in major ways. First of all, we never see the good man that Obi-Wan describes as his old friend from the galactic foxhole. We never see the great man that Anakin Skywalker was intended to be, because he never was that. He's just an outright insane horny teenager, and this makes his redemption in the final act fall flat. The second issue is that we don't see Anakin as a person, and we don't see him as something other than a clear and present danger. It should not take a wise Jedi to realize that Anakin is clearly dangerous and scary.

There are a million different things that make no sense. It would take all day to say every single thing wrong with the movie. What would be a lot harder is to point at ONE SINGLE THING in the ENTIRE RUNTIME OF THE PREQUEL FILMS and say "That thing is completely consistent, both with the previous trilogy and internally within itself". The movie is a practice in seeing how many times a movie series can contradict itself, even within the same film, before idiots can notice that there is not a single thing in the movies that holds up to any sort of critical scrutiny. The answer is apparently every single thing can be a contradiction and as long as it's shiny most people won't care because they are objectively stupid. You can like something that is dumb. What you can't do is say that any singular aspect of the entire prequel film run wasn't completely stupid. When I like stupid things, I don't pretend that they have any sort of quality to them. I don't go and say "Well, the structure of that fart joke was particularly sublime".

EpIII struck the perfect balance, and, despite everyone knowing how the plot was going to end, threw in a twist (The chancellor guy was the sith lord?! I should have seen it before!)
Anyone who did not know that the Chancellor was Palpatine was either in the 10 or younger set, or mentally handicapped to the point that they need to contact somebody to take care of their basic needs because they do not have the intelligence to do things like wipe their bums.

plus the action was amazing, and Ewan Mcgreggor's (Obi-wan kenobi) acting was amazing. Their were some powerful scenes in that film. Watched in unison, for me, the prequels are far greater than the originals. The third being the best (however, the order i like the others varies with my mood)
...Oh, good. Now I see that you're joking. The idea of powerful scenes in the prequel trilogy is far too ridiculous to be an actual claim by a human being. I don't feel bad about insulting the films now, because I see that you're being facetious.

I guess it boils down to what you are looking for in the star wars films. Plot or action. Personally, i preffer the plot of "Knights of the old republic" to any of the films.
Yes it does. If you find it difficult to breathe and think at the same time, perhaps you'll like the prequels! They're shiny and they don't even not require thought, but thought actually HURTS the experience of seeing shiny toy concepts created in a laboratory setting with absolutely no concern for artistic merit or consistency or any of the things that make a movie truly great.

Plus the prequels served their purpose of getting a whole new generation interested in starwars. I hadn't even heard of it before phantom menace (and it took me a while to like the originals)
If children have no concern for anything that was made before they were born, then they don't deserve them. The idea that something that was made before REQUIRES a modern tie-in to make it relevant again is a horrible concept that, if taken to the extreme, would also simply have us re-making the entire film canon every 20 or so years. We don't need a new Citizen Kane every 20 years for it to matter. La Grande Illusion doesn't require constant reboots to make it powerful. Hitchcock's films don't require remakes to continue to be thought of as masterpieces. The relevancy of the original trilogy is by no means enhanced by the existence of this artistic abortion.

[Zonino]

I agree that the plot of the first film was very thin, and what was there was too complicated (trade agreements? WTF?), but the action was pretty good. At least as good, if not better than the original trilogy. Considering the only plot twists i can remember from those films are "Obi-wan dies", "i am your father" and "i am your brother", i don't think thats too bad. Episode II was better than Episode I in the plot respect (well, ignoring the necessary, but terrible romance scenes) but lacked in the action aspect.

EpIII struck the perfect balance, and, despite everyone knowing how the plot was going to end, threw in a twist (The chancellor guy was the sith lord?! I should have seen it before!), plus the action was amazing, and Ewan Mcgreggor's (Obi-wan kenobi) acting was amazing. Their were some powerful scenes in that film. Watched in unison, for me, the prequels are far greater than the originals. The third being the best (however, the order i like the others varies with my mood)

I guess it boils down to what you are looking for in the star wars films. Plot or action. Personally, i preffer the plot of "Knights of the old republic" to any of the films.

Plus the prequels served their purpose of getting a whole new generation interested in starwars. I hadn't even heard of it before phantom menace (and it took me a while to like the originals)

Also as to the fact they have no

Well, I suppose that if you started with the prequel trilogy I don't really have much of a choice than to let you off with your near-heretical comments.

And then I remembered that you prefer the prequels to the originals and... I just can't let you away with that.

At least you've got it right, the 3rd prequel is the best of the 3, if only because it doesn't give itself too much time to open up plot holes and just throws in the action.

The problem isn't the films but with Lucas. He really, really doesn't know when to stop and when you look at the making of documentaries, when he talks, people looks scared and confused, like some inner conflict is telling them to pimp-slap Lucas down, but it's being pushed back by the fact that doing so would probably cost them their jobs.

If you want to see how far Lucas can go, you need only to view the Cantina at Mos Eisley, and the exchange between Han Solo and Greedo, the bounty Hunter who intended to turn him into Jabba the Hutt. In the original film, Solo distracts Greedo by talking to him, then shoots him under the table without batting an eye. This is meant to show the fact that Solo is a rogue who plays by his own rules, and that Luke and Obi-Wan could really be taking a risk by hiring a man who would sell them out if it would save him.

Lucas didn't want this, he wanted Solo to be a lovable rogue from the word go.

What this gets us is Greedo shooting first. Greedo, a presumably trained bounty hunter, sitting not 3 feet from Solo, with a blaster pointed right at him, AND MISSES.

Look, this is what we get: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qUjsCODGnE&feature=related

It just looks sooo... stupid! Han's "dodge" is bearly nothing more than a nervous twitch, he doesn't hit Greedo, and yet Greedo somehow manages to shoot the wall next to him, despite having a nice large body target to hit. Not only that, Greedo is CLEARLY POINTING THE GUN AT HAN'S CHEST yet he hits the wall above his head. It's just... soo... ugh it makes me so angry!

As an Edit, I was thinking about picking apart your post, but then I realised that Rather Dashing would be around to do that, and lo and behold after I posted I was correct. I might not have been as... blunt as he was and certainly not as eloquent, but I can tell you now what he said is probably what I would have said.

As an aside, any semblence of powerful scenes in episode 3 are completely pushed to the side with Obi-Wan warbling "YOU KILLED YOUNGLINGS!".

[Comrade Pants]

Defending the prequels? I'm so sorry your mother spliced every night when she was pregnant with you.

[splash1]

I have to admit, Episode 1 and 3 of the prequels were good. But not Episode 2, I think Anakin was a really annoying whiner, he was always complaining about something and always griping about how he never got to have a purple lightsaber.

Luke wasn't any better actually, "WAAAHHAAAAA, ish not possible yur mah fadur". But one thing is obvious that when Vader is a Sith Lord, he's completely badass.

But back on the prequels, they weren't bad; but it's obvious they could have been a lot better. The corny dialouge for one thing, did they have to be so dramatic when they were talking? They sounded really stupid and kind of redundant. Episode 2 was just bad because it kind of had no place to run, it needed a little something; like more fights in space, or less romance and more cutting off heads.

Episode 3 needed to have less darkness and less dramatic dialouge. Yoda for one thing, throughout Episode 1 and 2, he was so bad at pronouncing words and completing sentances. He needed to be more like he was in Episode 5, more guru and less "I'm trying to tell you not to go to the darkside, DON'T DO IT DUMMY!!".

That's just my opinion about the prequels. Did it make sense?

[taumel]

Anakin was annoying but anyone remembering Wesley Crusher? Things can always get even worse. :O)

[Friar]

Wow, some pretty harsh comments there. Evidently Star wars fans are as aggressive as they say!

Anyway, i'll answer a couple of Rather Dashing's counter points.
Palpatine's plot twist:
Lets get this clear: It was blatantly obviouse throughout most of the third film, but i don't really see anything that would have led anyone to believe that was the case from the others. Sure, his power grows, but he seemed decent enough in the first two films. Bearing in mind i would have been 9 when ep1 came out, and maybe 12/13 when ep2 came out. Was the name said in the originals or something? I'm always forgetfull with names.

EP2's plot
I said it was better, not good. At least they tried to do something instead of " here's Darth vader jr."

Powerful scenes
Well, the battle between Obi-wan and Anakin was brilliant, i thought. The anguish, and torment they felt was complimented by the fiery setting, combined with the epic music. That scene just sticks in my mind, and was far better than any scene i can remember from the sequels.

Annakin is not believable
I honestly agree with you. Boy anakin should have been the kid from AI/6th sense. And adult annakin's acting was, well, not worthy of such a high budget film. Everything seemed forced with him, and, given he is the main character and the plot revolves around him, is the reason the films seem alot worse then they actually are.

I'm somehow prejudiced because they're old films

That's ridiculous. I've seen most of the original Star trek episodes (1963 i think?), and quite a few of the old Doctor who episodes (1963 onwards). I'm more than happy to watch old films, but i can't really help it if i haven't heard of them! I only heard of doctor who the morning the revamp aired (2005), and i absolutely adore that programme! I have yet to see citizen kane (not out of choice, i haven't seen it instore or on TV). Star trek i didn't start watching until the new film came out. It's release triggered all the old episodes to be aired again on TV, along with the films. As it happens, Star trek XI was the last of the films i ended up watching. I watched it after watching close to 100 of the old episodes, plus the films. New releases trigger people to start talking about the films again, and trigger the older ones to be re-released in some form, to make it easier for younger people to watch. I have no doubt that i would have watched starwars eventually, but the prequels introduced them to me in my childhood, allowing me to do things i wouldn't have done otherwise (Light saber duels with wooden stilts in the school playground for example)

I enjoy an extensive plot as much as the next guy (butterfly effect being one of my favourite films), but given starwars doesn't have an extensively interesting plotline (given that itg has entered popular culture, and even those who haven't seen the film know what happens, so no surprise twists), i don't watch the films for the plot.

I'm not saying the sequels are abd, i'm just saying Ipreffer the prequels.

Anyway, i'm gonna call it quits for the whole starwars arguing. I'm not seeking to change peoples opinions, i'm just saying how i see things. Also, i liked JarJar:o

@tamuel: I like wesley crusher! (currently watching TNG). He can get annoying sometimes, but is alright most of the time.

[Astro Gnocci]

Anyway, i'll answer a couple of Rather Dashing's counter points.
Palpatine's plot twist:
Lets get this clear: It was blatantly obviouse throughout most of the third film, but i don't really see anything that would have led anyone to believe that was the case from the others. Sure, his power grows, but he seemed decent enough in the first two films. Bearing in mind i would have been 9 when ep1 came out, and maybe 12/13 when ep2 came out. Was the name said in the originals or something? I'm always forgetfull with names.


Well, i don't think the name was mentionned in the old movies, but yeah, even before episode I was released, it was obvious to old fansthat he was gonna be the bad guy :)

[Secret Fawful]

Anakin vs. Obiwan the most powerful scene? No. NO. NO.

NO.

no.


NO!


no no no.


NO!


Just..no!


NO!


NOOOO!

[shakes finger]


Noooo.



It was a fantastic scene though.



But no.


NO!


no.



(Oh, and it was obvious to me about Palpatine because he looks exactly like the Emperor. Exactly like him.)



But no.



no.



No.



NO!


NO.


no.

NOOOOO!


NO.


no.



No no NO.


NO no no NO no.


NO!


no.

[Rather Dashing]

Wow, some pretty harsh comments there. Evidently Star wars fans are as aggressive as they say!
No, that's just me.
Palpatine's plot twist:
Lets get this clear: It was blatantly obviouse throughout most of the third film, but i don't really see anything that would have led anyone to believe that was the case from the others. Sure, his power grows, but he seemed decent enough in the first two films. Bearing in mind i would have been 9 when ep1 came out, and maybe 12/13 when ep2 came out. Was the name said in the originals or something? I'm always forgetfull with names.
Everyone knew Palpatine was the emperor after Phantom Menace came out, and before the second film came out. He was angling for political power during a crisis.

EP2's plot
I said it was better, not good. At least they tried to do something instead of " here's Darth vader jr."
I don't see how they went for anything other than "here's Darth Vader the hormonal murderous teenager." I guess it's deeper because it uses more words.

Powerful scenes
Well, the battle between Obi-wan and Anakin was brilliant, i thought. The anguish, and torment they felt was complimented by the fiery setting, combined with the epic music. That scene just sticks in my mind, and was far better than any scene i can remember from the sequels.
First, we don't believe they are friends because they're constantly antagonistic toward each other and complain about each other behind the other's back. The scene is too long, to the point that the fancy jumps and twirling of lightsabers is little more than a spectacle. It gets boring if you want any sort of involvement with the sequence of images being played on the screen. In the end, the duel between the same two characters 20 years later is a lot more impactful than the big 15-minute tech demo because there was some sort of link to everything that was happening. You sort of got to know Ben, you knew Vader was ruthless, you see him strike down his old master and good friend Obi-Wan. You see how far he's turned. You don't need somersaults in the pits of Hell to convey these things, you need the film around the scene to actually compliment what the hell is going on.

Annakin is not believable
I honestly agree with you. Boy anakin should have been the kid from AI/6th sense. And adult annakin's acting was, well, not worthy of such a high budget film. Everything seemed forced with him, and, given he is the main character and the plot revolves around him, is the reason the films seem alot worse then they actually are.
How can a film be "better" than it seems despite its central focus being horrible? How can the central focus being executed in the worst possible way not somehow make the films detrimentally wounded beyond at the very least being better than movies that DON'T have this fault?

I'm somehow prejudiced because they're old films

You weren't reading. You said that they needed to introduce the saga to children. I say the only reason you'd need new movies to do this would be to sell more toys. If George wanted an ad, he succeeded and should be commended. If he wanted to make a good film, he should be put in a corner and have his crayons taken away until he can learn to follow the rules.

That's ridiculous. I've seen most of the original Star trek episodes (1963 i think?), and quite a few of the old Doctor who episodes (1963 onwards). I'm more than happy to watch old films, but i can't really help it if i haven't heard of them! I only heard of doctor who the morning the revamp aired (2005), and i absolutely adore that programme! I have yet to see citizen kane (not out of choice, i haven't seen it instore or on TV). Star trek i didn't start watching until the new film came out. It's release triggered all the old episodes to be aired again on TV, along with the films. As it happens, Star trek XI was the last of the films i ended up watching. I watched it after watching close to 100 of the old episodes, plus the films. New releases trigger people to start talking about the films again, and trigger the older ones to be
re-released in some form
And THAT'S where I have to stop you. Are you really trying to convince a STAR WARS FAN that new movies are good because it leads to RE-RELEASES? Because if so, you might need to reconsider your audience for a moment, and consider what re-releases mean for people who don't think that the original trilogy are the most boring because they lack laboratory shine.

make it easier for younger people to watch. I have no doubt that i would have watched starwars eventually, but the prequels introduced them to me in my childhood, allowing me to do things i wouldn't have done otherwise (Light saber duels with wooden stilts in the school playground for example)
Letting you whack other kids with a stick as a kid is not reason enough to butcher a classic purely for hedonistic profit.

I enjoy an extensive plot as much as the next guy (butterfly effect being one of my favourite films), but given starwars doesn't have an extensively interesting plotline (given that itg has entered popular culture, and even those who haven't seen the film know what happens, so no surprise twists), i don't watch the films for the plot.
What do you watch them for, then? To see shiny things zip by? Because Lucas definitely made sure that he could stuff each shot to the brim with shiny things that he could turn into toys or concepts for video games.

I'm not saying the sequels are abd, i'm just saying Ipreffer the prequels.
I'm not saying stepping in cow manure is bad, I'm just saying I Ipreffer stepping in dog crap.
Also, i liked JarJar:o
That's cool that you like racist caricatures. "Meesa yours humble servant, massa!" Though it makes sense that someone who enjoys the prequels would like racist caricatures, because the prequel films definitely meets their quota of them.

[splash1]

Anakin vs. Obiwan the most powerful scene? No. NO. NO.

Aren't the no's kinda... Pushing it?

[Secret Fawful]

No.

[Rather Dashing]

Aren't the no's kinda... Pushing it?
http://imgur.com/H982Y.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s)

[coolsome]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLnWf1sQkjY

(totaly ruined the creating of vader's cyborg body)

[splash1]

http://imgur.com/H982Y.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s)

I liked that part, it was so... Hot.

[doodo!]

Doodoo, continuity has nothing to do with following characters around from the original trilogy. In fact, that we see R2D2 and C-3PO at all is horribly straining. What is the liklihood that two random droids would so happen to stumble into both adventures? The thing is, they don't belong in the prequels, and that they're in the movies hurts the credibility of the story. In Episode VI, we're told that Yoda is the Jedi that trained Obi-Wan. We're told that Obi-Wan was as bothersome as Luke as a pupil. And yet, we get Qui-Gon anyway. We're told that Leia remembers her mother, and that she was very sad, and yet Padme died in childbirth. We get this idea that Obi-Wan and Anakin were good friends, and the whole Master/Apprentice relationship along with both of them constantly yelling at each other with only sidelong comments saying "Oh that adventure we had was pretty neat huh way over there off screen I HATE YOU!" to indicate that they might like each other at all.

Did they ever actually say that Obi Wan was taught by Qui Gon for his entire life? At the most Qui Gon could only have started teaching Obi Wan when he reached the status of master. Plain and simple that's how the movies state it works.

Every young-ling at the academy has some training time with Yoda before they train with a jedi master. This is suggested and shown in the prequels.

Oh, come on, who cares about the droids. Stranger things could of had happened. It's not that bad. He wrote the story starting from TPM that the origin of these droids was some how connected to the characters, and so it was. It was never written before, what's the real issue if he wrote it that way? In TPM Anakin builds 3PO and R2d2 happens to be working for the republic, it's not that unlikely that the two droids could service the republic. This isn't a huge deal, it's just an unexpected story twist and something for critics to needlessly attack.

It's not like having 3PO in the prequels really hurt anything, I thought it was pretty interesting that Anakin built stuff like that. It has positive merit, it could have been any droid but to be precise it was 3PO...not a big deal.

They never said I hate you, only when he was on fire and sliding into lava and he cut his legs off...Even in ROTS after he turned to the dark side he talked to Obi Wan about his feelings and with any rational thought left told Padame that they could only hope that he (Obi Wan) had remain loyal to the republic.

He was a mentor to Anakin, Anakin was troubled and needed direction. You of all people probably know what tough love is.

ROTS
You were like a brother, Anakin! I Loved you!

Obi wan took Anakin in, always gave him the benefit of the doubt even if he was hard on him. He was a jedi and had to do what he had to do. Yoda assures him in ROTS that Anakin is gone and that Darth Vader remains before they fight. Even at the end Obi wan tries to address Anakin and pour his heart out to him when the force tells us that Anakin is gone.

They have their moments, they are in a war together, their little side stories they mention are there for a reason and to be quite honest I don't want to watch needless time of bondage on screen, man hugs, and watch them go for a drink at the catinas. I think people can more than enough get the idea that they were friends or atleast mentor and apprentice.

ROTS

I taught you everything I know, you are far greater a jedi than I could ever hope to be (Obi Wan to Anakin). Have patience, the consul will honor you with the rank of Jedi Master soon.

The boy had too much power to be treated like he was just another friend, he was his mentor not just his friend, he was like a older brother and he had to make sure he was safe and serious about what was happening. They had plenty of small moments where they bonded and that was enough for anyone who's not a cynic.

Yeah, Leia remembers her mother through the force. Leia was raised on Alderaan even in the original story, I'm glad that we didn't get lose ends where she went with her mother and then we never knew what the hell happened from there. We already know that she is raised on Alderaan by Senator Bail Organa...Thank God that the movie doesn't end going off with her mother with no explanation, it's fine the way it is. Then we have to consider Luke too...and there's more loose ends (anything else you wanted to destroy?)

Any little discrepancy was unavoidable and it's quite possible that having the force Leia remember her mother even as a infant.

EDIT: People aren't giving the prequels ANY credit, the dialog in ROTS is not that bad even if Haydren Christen doesn't state it too well himself. What is so great about the actual dialog in ROTJ?

"Your thoughts betray you, father"
" I won't fight you..."
"Now, young Skywalker, you will die..."

Yes, everything sounds good when good actors say it but actually listen to the dialog, it's not utterly genius and brilliant dialog...

The dialog in this scene is REALLY...really not that bad...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRFUoqA_vm0&feature=related
Give me a break, the dialog may be rough, real on the edges but it's really not bad. ROTJ avoided any real dialog, because Lucas can't really write it for one thing and for another the characters really weren't that developed together, no real relationship or drama.

I love Jedi but the music helps alot and the fact that Luke fights for his sister and other mentionable things, and because of the reveal of Anakin. But really is any of it really that developed? You're my father a dark jedi in a metal suit! NOOO! NOOO! This scene radiates in dialog, even if it's not the best...

Give me a break...

"Dark side, Dark side, something something" Palpatine
"I won't fight my daddy!"
"I'm darth vader, I'm your daddy!"
"DARK SIDE DARK SIDE"
"NO NO NO"
It has just as much as a peak, epiphany as ROTS does where all things come to a end that have been building, there's no real flavor in one other the other or anything that's really deep and that intellect one apart from the other.

[splash1]

@doodo

I agree with you about the prequels not getting enough credit, I thought that the way Lucas tied the story together with A New Hope and Revenge of the Sith very well. And you're right about not enough character development, all George did was slap dramatic music in, and then put in some high fighting action sequences in order to take attention away from them.

[doodo!]

@doodo

I agree with you about the prequels not getting enough credit, I thought that the way Lucas tied the story together with A New Hope and Revenge of the Sith very well. And you're right about not enough character development, all George did was slap dramatic music in, and then put in some high fighting action sequences in order to take attention away from them.

Yes, and to continue in this direction:

Vader and Luke hardly know each other, there's no real bond there.

Luke hardly knows anything about his father, we just have a few scenes where with the force luke is some how connected to his robot father (More machine than man). His father has no real relationship at all with Luke aside from this Dark Side mumble jumble...

It wears out the concept of the force, good versus evil, blah blah blah... is there any real side to either side? Not really, vader is all bad and the palpatine is even worse. There are a few minor lines of dialog that show a little bit of a controversy, a little drama. None of them are brilliant lines that really make you think.

There really isn't a whole lot of depth and as you say character development. Characters are pretty simple and one sided, the conflict as they put it is historically generic and expected.

People are so closed minded to the ROTS fight scene, which is one of the most passionate light saber battles I've ever seen.

The truth about the Vader and Luke relationship is that it was shocking at the time, shocking when you first saw it and so it's infamous, it's a twist that intrigued people and wowed them. People were caught up into at the time, now as all six movies are out and we look back and that's gone. We already know the story, esp if you watch them in order.

The feeling of the moment preserves but is it really that enduring? Is it really that deep and great of a concept? I'm sure people were on board until the very last frame of Jedi and liked seeing Anakin saved but any real fan might just be searching for a little more with the prequels.

There's alot that the original 3 didn't really explore and really vader has just like Luke's dark shadow, nearly life less in the movies.

I heard some where that Vader wasn't even originally scripted to be his father.


There's not a whole lot actually going on, the whole effect is simply just not as enduring as it used to be. We expect more now, especially after we have a glimpse into the character of Anakin. Esp after we see Anakin in ROTS go through his complete transformation. Instead we get a very closed off Vader who keeps to himself and with limited dialog we have to pass the time eventually is defeated to give out a few good lines about Anakin and how he's been saved.

I love Jedi but it's not that phenomenal over ROTS in dialog.

Vader's character is just a dark side puppet who is Luke's father, there really isn't a lot going on. Yeah, sure salvation is great, esp after you link it back to Anakin but up until that point is there really that much genius and brilliant dialog and character development? HELL NO!

[der_ketzer]

(Oh, and it was obvious to me about Palpatine because he looks exactly like the Emperor. Exactly like him.)

Then it must be true. The pope is indeed the Dark Lord!

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1239/benedict.jpg

[Iryon]

So, after reading the whole thread and considering all the arguments on both sides, I have come to the following conclusions to sum up everything:

1. George Lucas is a dork.

2. Star Wars sucks as a whole.

[der_ketzer]

So, after reading the whole thread and considering all the arguments on both sides, I have come to the following conclusions to sum up everything:

1. George Lucas is a dork.

2. Star Wars sucks as a whole.

I could live with that.

[adventureaddict]

I prefer the prequels!!

*prepares for massive ambush*

[guitarsareboring]

I'm disappointed. When you said 'in unison' I imagined you had 6 Tv screens, one with each film running at the same time.

[DarthBo]

I can't believe this thread...
Either you're a massive troll or you really don't understand storytelling.

Vader and Luke hardly know each other, there's no real bond there.

There really isn't a whole lot of depth and as you say character development.

People are so closed minded to the ROTS fight scene, which is one of the most passionate light saber battles I've ever seen.
Really? REALLY?
The best lightsaber battles were in the original films, with the best one being the one in ESB. "But the prequel ones were fancier" true, they were also boring and a waste of time.
I mean sure, they're pretty to look at, but what's the point? In ESB you didn't care about the clashing of the sabers, you cared about the characters. Luke didn't finish his training and was fighting with Darth Vader, who was mocking him during the entire fight, fighting with only one arm, telling him he's not a Jedi, ... THAT is an emotional battle.
The same goes for the other OT lightsaber battles, there's always a conversation going on, the fight is secondary to the character development.

In the prequels you've just got choreographed battles... which are fancy and all, but no one says anything, they're just boring. Yes, George changed that a bit in the 3rd prequel... but the lines are ridiculous ("only a Sith deals in absolutes" -> yeah, that's not hypocritical at all Obi-Wan) but you also don't care about the characters AT ALL.

And yeah, everyone knew Palpatine was evil.
a) There was this evil dude called Emperor Palpatine in the OT, who kinda looks exactly like senator Palpatine. hmm....
b) There's this hologram of Darth Sidious, who looks and sounds just like Palpatine. hmmm

it's not utterly genius and brilliant dialog...
You don't understand. They don't need to be "genius", just compare them to the incredibly awkward lines in eg ROTS in that balcony scene ("You are so Beautiful." "It's because I am so in love."). You can't possibly not hate that scene.

Anakin building 3PO is one of worst idea's ever. Him living on Tatooine is just as bad.
It makes the universe look ridiculously small and creates a huge amount of plotholes.

The trade dispute makes no sense, Palpatine's plan makes no sense, the Jedi's reaction makes no sense, the love story makes no sense, Anakin's fall makes no sense, ...

I'll agree that I "liked" watching the prequels (well, apart from some scenes that just make you wanna scratch your eyes out) when they came out, but the second I left the cinema and started thinking about the story... it all falls apart. That is why I can't rewatch the prequels, they bother me to no end.

[ShaggE]

Everyone is forgetting one thing: All the films are inferior to the piece of high art called "The Star Wars Holiday Special".

[der_ketzer]

Everyone is forgetting one thing: All the films are inferior to the piece of high art called "The Star Wars Holiday Special".

Happy Life Day.

I guess we can all agree on the fact that the prequel as much as one might hate or love them are still better than the Holliday Special.

[IronCladChicken]

I'm not softening to the prequel movies - But that clone wars cartoon series has definity made me like the 'prequel' universe a lot more.

[guitarsareboring]

You don't understand. They don't need to be "genius", just compare them to the incredibly awkward lines in eg ROTS in that balcony scene ("You are so Beautiful." "It's because I am so in love."). You can't possibly not hate that scene.

I rewatched it recently, goodness me that scene is bad. I actually felt embarrassed for all involved.

[coolsome]

I rewatched it recently, goodness me that scene is bad. I actually felt embarrassed for all involved.

http://mytwocents.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/embarrassed-2.jpg

[doodo!]

I can't believe this thread...
Either you're a massive troll or you really don't understand storytelling.


Really? REALLY?
The best lightsaber battles were in the original films, with the best one being the one in ESB. "But the prequel ones were fancier" true, they were also boring and a waste of time.
I mean sure, they're pretty to look at, but what's the point? In ESB you didn't care about the clashing of the sabers, you cared about the characters. Luke didn't finish his training and was fighting with Darth Vader, who was mocking him during the entire fight, fighting with only one arm, telling him he's not a Jedi, ... THAT is an emotional battle.
The same goes for the other OT lightsaber battles, there's always a conversation going on, the fight is secondary to the character development.

In the prequels you've just got choreographed battles... which are fancy and all, but no one says anything, they're just boring. Yes, George changed that a bit in the 3rd prequel... but the lines are ridiculous ("only a Sith deals in absolutes" -> yeah, that's not hypocritical at all Obi-Wan) but you also don't care about the characters AT ALL.

And yeah, everyone knew Palpatine was evil.
a) There was this evil dude called Emperor Palpatine in the OT, who kinda looks exactly like senator Palpatine. hmm....
b) There's this hologram of Darth Sidious, who looks and sounds just like Palpatine. hmmm


You don't understand. They don't need to be "genius", just compare them to the incredibly awkward lines in eg ROTS in that balcony scene ("You are so Beautiful." "It's because I am so in love."). You can't possibly not hate that scene.

Anakin building 3PO is one of worst idea's ever. Him living on Tatooine is just as bad.
It makes the universe look ridiculously small and creates a huge amount of plotholes.

The trade dispute makes no sense, Palpatine's plan makes no sense, the Jedi's reaction makes no sense, the love story makes no sense, Anakin's fall makes no sense, ...

I'll agree that I "liked" watching the prequels (well, apart from some scenes that just make you wanna scratch your eyes out) when they came out, but the second I left the cinema and started thinking about the story... it all falls apart. That is why I can't rewatch the prequels, they bother me to no end.

I'm not a troll, trolls are people who insult others or take away from intelligent conversation with insults, accuse people of being trolls. Esp people who started a thread and try to not insult some one. I'm not trying to judge, so let's not judge me? :)

The prequel fights aren't really only fancy. This simply is not true. Lucas cleary enhances light saber battles with every movie. With every movie he uses more special effects and skills to show a duel. In ANH he has a few spins, with simple light saber effects.

In ESB, he has more, he has jedi jumping and flips, things being thrown and glass breaking...etc etc and then in ROTJ it's in the same vain if it doesn't take it even further.

You can justify it with Obi Wan's age in ANH, but clearly Yoda suggests that age and size simply do not matter with the force.

I really don't understand why knowing Palpatine is evil is a big deal. Mace Windu and Obi Wan didn't watch the older movies first. There are several quotes in the prequels that don't beat around the bush, they actually SAY THAT HE IS A SITH LORD.

AOTC- What if I told you that there was a dark lord ruling the senate?(Dooku)
That's impossible we'd sense it (Obi Wan)
The Dark Side clouds everything (Dooku)

ROTS
(OBI WAN to Anakin )I'd keep a close eye on your friend, Palpatine.

TPM
But who was destroyed, the Sith lord or the apprentice? (Mace Windu)

ROTS
(Yoda) A trait far more common in Jedi, too sure of them selves.

They weren't trying to hide Palpatine from the audience, they were building up the story how he was able to come to power, trick the order and justified how powerful he truly was by in fact tricking the entire jedi order.

They suspected a Sith Lord, even had mixed feelings about Palpatine since the first movie.

Of course he tricked Anakin, of course he put stupid thoughts into his mind. He's his damn apprentice, lol!

C3PO is a not a plot hole, I know it's hard to wrap the mind around it. He's present in Vader's life throughout. You could have just as easily watched the new three first if you were born this year or in the years to come or even 5 years ago...They're just two droids. They never traveled around the entire galaxy, this really isn't that big of a deal. Things you create for yourself are bound to return to you at some time in your life. Really not that amazing. In ANH it's suggested that the two droids are in fact old friends. They had to meet some where....Telling the story of the two droids really isn't that big of a deal.

I don't see the big deal in sending Luke to the same planet his father grew up in, esp when he has some sort of family there...

ROTS does have effects like any other Star Wars movie does throughout. Though a large majority of it takes place on ground, and there's a very passionate light saber duel throughout.

The logical reason why the old three movies are slower (duel wise) is because Luke isn't a complete jedi and because Vader is in his life suit and has less blood to bat.

Oh, because Luke really cared about being a Jedi which at that point meant destroying his father. Clearly not because he was in conflict and didn't want to fight him. STILL they didn't really develop any real father and son bond. Obi Wan and Yoda were willing to kill if they had to do it for the jedi order...

The one arm literally served as more of a implied symbolism, there wasn't really that much emphasis on his one arm in Jedi, throughout. After he gets his robotic arm they show it off a little but by the time of Jedi, who really cares?

The only emotional scene with it in Jedi is when they compare his arm to Vader. That's about the extent of relationship and character development you get in Jedi though...

No, I do understand, lol. No, I don't hate the scene. I esp don't hate the original 3 movies either. I'm a fan boy of 1-6.

I'm disappointed. When you said 'in unison' I imagined you had 6 Tv screens, one with each film running at the same time.

No, I've only been able to train my brain to watch two movies at once. One is usually a silent film. :D
Everyone is forgetting one thing: All the films are inferior to the piece of high art called "The Star Wars Holiday Special".
I think it's on my Zune. Yeah, it is. HAHA. No, I don't really like it. That is pretty rough in parts if not impossible to watch. I'm not sure what to make of it. It's is trash but I still like having a copy some where.

[DarthBo]

Lucas cleary enhances light saber battles with every movie. With every movie he uses more special effects and skills to show a duel.
Since when are more special effects a good thing? A long time ago George Lucas said: "A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."
The prequel fights, as I said, are a lot prettier, but they're boring because they serve no purpose to the plot.

I really don't understand why knowing Palpatine is evil is a big deal. Mace Windu and Obi Wan didn't watch the older movies first. There are several quotes in the prequels that don't beat around the bush, they actually SAY THAT HE IS A SITH LORD.
Exactly. Don't you see the problem here?
It makes the Jedi the dumbest idiots in the galaxy!

[doodo!]

Since when are more special effects a good thing? A long time ago George Lucas said: "A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."
The prequel fights, as I said, are a lot prettier, but they're boring because they serve no purpose to the plot.


Exactly. Don't you see the problem here?
It makes the Jedi the dumbest idiots in the galaxy!

You know, even the greatest empires come to a end at the peak of their power. They become too sure of their selves, they become clouded. Everyone loses their power eventually. The Romans, the ancient Egyptians...etc etc...

I think it's suggested that they are losing their power, as the force isn't balanced, and they are just able to some what see into a clouded future.

Just as ROTS states
Too sure of them selves...
The Dark Side clouds everything

They're not idiots, they're simply left in the dark. There's no real failing. The audience knows who Palpatine is but they don't. To them he is in fact a functional Senator who is mysterious but they don't know how fast he could rise to power. They don't know that he's a super powerful Sith Lord. They sense something is wrong surrounding him from time to time but Palpatine is too powerful to just give himself away. If he did, what would be the point? It would one movie. He already is evil, it's the story how he is connected to all the jedi and how he does away with the jedi quickly and effectively with his pupil, and how he rises to power in the galaxy by manipulating the galactic senate.

It's true,each movie progresses the effects, by the time of TMP Lucas adds more effects and more fancy Jedi moves. It's a true progression.

That's simply not true about the duels. Aside from some of the duels which take up action in the clone wars (show some fighting/ combat), in every duel something important happens or later it's revealed as something that was important.

[der_ketzer]

Exactly. Don't you see the problem here?
It makes the Jedi the dumbest idiots in the galaxy!

No it doesn't.

[LuigiHann]

The thread title makes me want to watch all 6 movies at the same time using split-screen.
Now that would be something.

[doodo!]

The thread title makes me want to watch all 6 movies at the same time using split-screen.
Now that would be something.

That would be cool but my brain can't watch up to 6 movies at the same time, only two. Which isn't saying much because we are conscious of the world around us as we watch a movie. It's really not that impressive of a skill.

6 movies at once I would be very impressed to see.

[taumel]

I doubt this would work due to the audio but i remember watching a interesting animation movie at a film festival where the area was split into several frames, can't remember the exact amount anymore. They all showed a different scene and started at different time points. In the end all story parts meet each other and came together.

It was exhausting in the beginning but after some time you got used to it but you still had to pay more attention than in a normal movie. I always wantet to use this concept in a game but i haven't found time to yet.

[doodo!]

I doubt this would work due to the audio but i remember watching a interesting animation movie at a film festival where the area was split into several frames, can't remember the exact amount anymore. They all showed a different scene and started at different time points. In the end all story parts meet each other and came together.

It was exhausting in the beginning but after some time you got used to it but you still had to pay more attention than in a normal movie. I always wantet to use this concept in a game but i haven't found time to yet.

Brilliant! The way I am able to watch two movies is to constantly look for things to tie the two together. I look for ideas that some how connect, link the two. Like when I watched The Others with The Farmers Wife, I analyzed people's emotions.

Anyways that sounds awesome! I really wish I could see that.

Of course you have to learn to look way at the appropriate times to see the other movie. It's some what difficult and straining. :)

[Banaang]

I doubt this would work due to the audio but i remember watching a interesting animation movie at a film festival where the area was split into several frames, can't remember the exact amount anymore. They all showed a different scene and started at different time points. In the end all story parts meet each other and came together.

It was exhausting in the beginning but after some time you got used to it but you still had to pay more attention than in a normal movie. I always wantet to use this concept in a game but i haven't found time to yet.

was the film called Timecode?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timecode_(movie)

The entire film is one take, although they re-filmed the entire film many times + chose the best one.

It could be quite interesting to use split-screen in a real-time part of an adventure game, where you have several characters that start in one place + all go in different directions, or a split screen that appears for characters that are nearby + about to enter the story/room. If you were just splitting up your main characters they'd have to be doing something useful in real-time, or you might as well just use an icon in the corner of the screen to switch between characters + devote the full screen to the part you control. Split-screen is used quite effectively at times in the "interactive film" Indigo Prophecy (aka Fahrenheit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_(video_game))) and I assume they reuse similar techniques in Heavy Rain.

[taumel]

Nope, as i wrote it was a animation movie, quite some years ago on a film festival in *drumroll* Stuttgart or Munich.

Yep, i love split screens, you definately could use this idea in a interesting way.

[doodo!]

Here's a fairly decent Vader video I just found
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peY58LTW4zQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=uhmi1DvyM1g&feature=grec_index

It's done fairly well, worth watching for the sake of this topic anyways.

[taumel]

Btw i recently saw e2 partly and what i really liked was the scene with Obi-Wan in the asteroid field, nice colours.

[doodo!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ZICKJHwlA&feature=related

These are the kind of shows I hope for in Heaven

EDIT:

MORE HEAVEN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxZRYOAAQfE&feature=related

[Secret Fawful]

Can't remember where I saw this but...

http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/C54yPPiQMfw/default.jpg
Star Wars - 80's TV Show Edition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C54yPPiQMfw)

[taumel]

@dodoo!
Are you sure you didn't mean hell?

[doodo!]

Can't remember where I saw this but...

http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/C54yPPiQMfw/default.jpg
Star Wars - 80's TV Show Edition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C54yPPiQMfw)

That was freaking beautiful!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhDwi1rTBd4&feature=related

OH GOD! MY HEART'S RACING!!!!^^