Joystiq review

[Got Haggis?]

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/30/review-puzzle-agent/

3/5 - seems to be a mainly negative review (copy of Professor Layton but not as good)

[Gibbeynator]

So, that means Puzzle Agent will be out soon? I mean, if people are already reviewing it, it must be done.

[KLind]

Wow I disagree with their review.

Here's mine for what it's worth: http://buttonbasher.net/2010/06/30/you-see-them-dont-you-a-nelson-tethers-puzzle-agent-review/

[MRN]

Lol at that review...

[MRN]

Wow I disagree with their review.

Here's mine for what it's worth: http://buttonbasher.net/2010/06/30/you-see-them-dont-you-a-nelson-tethers-puzzle-agent-review/

10/10??

WOW!!!

How long is the game, BTW?

[Secret Fawful]

Seems like the first reviewer had a negative attitude before he played the game. It just feels that way.

[Toast_Burner]

That was quite a bad review.
Im not saying its bad because im biased and love Telltale, but in that review he kept comparing it to Professor Layton. I understand using Professor Layton when talking about the Puzzles but the characters and setting are not suposed to be any thing like 'Professor Layton' its Grinkle where the characters all look the same and usually have no names.

[KLind]

10/10??

WOW!!!

How long is the game, BTW?

I feel very strongly about this game and it's series potential.

As for length it seemed about the same length as a typical Telltale episode if not a little bit shorter. Your mileage may vary depending on how long you spend stumped on puzzles.

[MRN]

^^Thanks :)

[Raum]

Pretty awful review. In every sentence there seems to be contours of arguments, he mentions Professor Layton. It's ridiculous, really.

In fact, a similar critique could be leveled against the whole of the game's tone. It wants to be quirky, funny, oddball, mysterious and a little unnerving, but it never goes far enough in any of those directions to be particularly effective. What you're left with feels like Brett Ratner trying to make a David Lynch movie, and the result is unfortunately mushy, even more so when compared to the specific, deliberate charm of Layton.

The game is subtle, and that's a bad thing, because Professor Layton is "deliberately charming"? Give me a break.

[shref]

im really not expecting anything amazing from this game (tho its telltale so i wouldnt be surprised if i'm wrong on this =P) but i basically got it for free so it doesnt bother me if its bad

[Toast_Burner]

also it seems he didnt like the game because it rips off Professor Layton, but he complains when it does stuff differently to Professor Layton :confused:.

[Got Haggis?]

to me its a weird review because its mostly negative, but in the end they give it a 3/5, which is not a bad score.

[Paintbrush]

I don't get this "Professor Layton rip off" thing. By this standard 90% of all games are rip offs (not to mention, all adventure games must be rip offs of early Kings Quests :rolleyes: )

[plrichard]

Yeah, it seems like a situation where he heard it was going to be like Professor Layton, which is one of his favorite games and was disappointed. And since he was so disappointed that he said they should've never even tried to copy Layton.

[LordKinbote]

also it seems he didnt like the game because it rips off Professor Layton, but he complains when it does stuff differently to Professor Layton :confused:.

Well, no, he complains that most things that Puzzle Agent did, Layton did better. That's not quite the same thing.

It seems enjoyment of the game is very much tied to the Layton-shaped elephant in the room: if you can get past the fact that, yeah, it's fairly derivative, then you'll have a good time. If you can't, then you might want to lower your expectations now.

All I care about are whether the puzzles are good and interesting, and whether the story is worthwhile. Honestly, I'm worried that it will fall in the same trap that Layton fell in, that most of the puzzles will be "chestnuts" (puzzles that are so well-known that most seasoned puzzlers could give you the answer without thinking about the problem at all).

[MRN]

I don't get this "Professor Layton rip off" thing. By this standard 90% of all games are rip offs (not to mention, all adventure games must be rip offs of early Kings Quests :rolleyes: )

Yeah, it's like saying: "Oh noes, all the Adventure Games are rip offs of the early text adventure game but with images :eek:!!!!!!111!!Q!!!"

[Yadda]

Trust me, based on the puzzles we've seen so far... I don't think that's going to be an issue.

And, considering the Layton games, or at least the first one, dunno about the others, were a direct fork of a brain teaser book in Japan... Same puzzles, same order, etc...

You get the idea. Chestnuts be expected in Layton's case as a result of the origin of the puzzles.

[LordKinbote]

Trust me, based on the puzzles we've seen so far... I don't think that's going to be an issue.

And, considering the Layton games, or at least the first one, dunno about the others, were a direct fork of a brain teaser book in Japan... Same puzzles, same order, etc...

You get the idea. Chestnuts be expected in Layton's case as a result of the origin of the puzzles.

Actually, the sock puzzle shown in the second review is very much a chestnut.

[akaimizu]

Well, yeah. The Professor Layton games had puzzles which were directly taken from existing puzzle books. Not just in Japan, but in the West as well. I did know the majority of those puzzles, from the start, though one can always alter a tiny rule or position in them, to make them have a different answer. It's what makes those puzzles really lasting.

Of course, the review really didn't tell me anything other than the guy's personal opinion about the atmosphere of the game. Or anything about whether it is voice acted all the way through, etc. Telltale games are generally 'talky' type of games, where Professor Layton has no voice work outside of a few *specific* animated scenes and soundbites when you solve or fail a puzzle attempt.

[KLind]

Actually, the sock puzzle shown in the second review is very much a chestnut.

I chose that screencap mainly to show the other kind of puzzle (Brain Teasers; Click Puzzles). It's one of the easier solutions in the game, for what it's worth. They're not all as simple as that.

[Yadda]

Actually... I meant that the first Layton game was a direct lift from a SINGLE puzzle book. with all elements preserved. At least, if I recall correctly.

[LordKinbote]

I chose that screencap mainly to show the other kind of puzzle (Brain Teasers; Click Puzzles). It's one of the easier solutions in the game, for what it's worth. They're not all as simple as that.

Fair enough. I'm not so much concerned about "simple" though as I am "trite". Whether that puzzle is simple or not isn't the point; I knew the answer without thinking about it at all because I have seen it dozens upon dozens of times.

If a company really wants to out-Layton Layton, they need to hire someone who's good at producing original, never-before-seen brain teasers and puzzles, or at least creative enough to hide the fact that they're not all that new. I'd love a computer game from Greg Brume (http://pandamagazine.com/) or Mark Halpin (http://www.markhalpin.com/puzzles/puzzles.html) for example, because their puzzles are consistently interesting.

[jeeno0142]

Regardless of what that reviewer thinks, I recon this game is going to be great. From what little I've seen of it, it looks to me to have the potential of becoming a full series. I'm looking forward to the other Pilot releases too.

I don't get this "Professor Layton rip off" thing. By this standard 90% of all games are rip offs (not to mention, all adventure games must be rip offs of early Kings Quests :rolleyes: )

Exactly. This is my argument too. Just because the gameplay is the same, that doesn't mean it's a complete rip off. This is a game set in the world of Grickle. That to me already makes it unique and stands it apart from Layton.

[akaimizu]

Some of those Mark Halpin puzzles look pretty tricky for most people to get. I think one of the reasons for Layton's choice of puzzles is that they want the average person to be able to complete them. So the main things they avoided were puzzles that had to be solved in parts. (ex. Any puzzle where the result is a solution of multiple puzzles you have to solve). Puzzles that require too long of an explanation to get going through them. And/or puzzles that are served too vaguely as to give little indication on how to even look at the puzzle.

I guess the idea is that they need to be original while keeping the fundamental difficulty along the lines of the previous puzzle games. With the exception of some extra-hard mode. As of right now, some of the existing puzzle types have been redone because of a single rule or position changed, which changes the outcome. Those will seem familiar, but with a few gotchas. Case in point, in Layton 1, they had the good ol' get these folks across a river in one raft puzzle. However, they changed a rule from the version of the puzzle I did before, so I kind of had to do it anew instead of just coming up with a memorized answer.

[LordKinbote]

Some of those Mark Halpin puzzles look pretty tricky for most people to get.

Oh, they most definitely are, but I also know he's smart enough to make puzzles for all ability levels. Any puzzle creator worth his salt can adapt the difficulty level to fit the audience. I don't want people to take my links and say "Oh, he wants hard puzzles" because, while I *love* hard puzzles, that's not the point I was trying to make.

[G.byrne]

Reviews are for fools. People have to make up their own opinions. I never listen to what other people tell me... If I did, I would have missed out on COUNTLESS amazing movies, books and games.

[Raum]

Fair enough. I'm not so much concerned about "simple" though as I am "trite". Whether that puzzle is simple or not isn't the point; I knew the answer without thinking about it at all because I have seen it dozens upon dozens of times.

If a company really wants to out-Layton Layton, they need to hire someone who's good at producing original, never-before-seen brain teasers and puzzles, or at least creative enough to hide the fact that they're not all that new. I'd love a computer game from Greg Brume (http://pandamagazine.com/) or Mark Halpin (http://www.markhalpin.com/puzzles/puzzles.html) for example, because their puzzles are consistently interesting.

To be perfectly honest, since this is a Grickle game, I'm much more interested in art, atmosphere, story and general ambiance than I am with the specifics of the puzzles.

I mean, classic puzzles are that for a reason, producing wholly new ones can be quite the task, if you're aiming for a diverse audience.

I'm sure this is one of the dangerous points of making a game like this. You have to fend off all the eggheads (not meant derogatory) who focuses only on the puzzles.

I'd be a lot more worried if the puzzles weren't properly integrated into the style and mindset of the game itself, than that the puzzles are somehow unoriginal, because quite frankly, when you've played enough adventure games and solved enough puzzles, nothing is really very inventive.

[LordKinbote]

I'd be a lot more worried if the puzzles weren't properly integrated into the style and mindset of the game itself, than that the puzzles are somehow unoriginal, because quite frankly, when you've played enough adventure games and solved enough puzzles, nothing is really very inventive.

One of the biggest problems in modern gaming is the idea that everything's been done to death, so why even focus on invention? If everyone thought like that, then why even bother making games? Just make movies if the puzzles are just hackneyed pauses between scenes that we've seen millions of times already.

It kills me when people say "I'll settle for unoriginality if the story's good." Why settle? We can have our cake and eat it too!

I just want to reiterate that I am not talking about Puzzle Agent, a game I have no right to criticize because I have not yet played. I'm talking about the general state of gaming.

Edit: Also, "creating wholly new ones can be quite the task"? I shouldn't demand more of my games because it might be hard for the designers? Boo hoo for them. I'd gladly wait longer for a truly great game.

[corruptbiggins]

I saw this on Twitter earlier today, seems appropriate to share here.

The state of the video game industry summed up in 3 images...

http://images.gamekult.com/blog/imgdb/000/000/495/602_3.jpg

What's even better is that the reviews of said games (and other similar "AAA" titles) always get good reviews and little is said about the fact that they're all essential ripping each other off.

[G.byrne]

I saw this on Twitter earlier today, seems appropriate to share here.

The state of the video game industry summed up in 3 images...

http://images.gamekult.com/blog/imgdb/000/000/495/602_3.jpg

What's even better is that the reviews of said games (and other similar "AAA" titles) always get good reviews and little is said about the fact that they're all essential ripping each other off.

I disagree with your image. Not one of those games featured plasma rifles and hostile aliens,

[der_ketzer]

http://images.gamekult.com/blog/imgdb/000/000/495/602_3.jpg

At least Modern Warfail is trying to be unique by splashing orange-lemonade in your face instead of blood.
And yeah I agree with you here. This genre get's more and more boring fo years now.

[corruptbiggins]

Actually, it looks to me like a jar of jam exploded in front of the camera!

[der_ketzer]

Actually, it looks to me like a jar of jam exploded in front of the camera!

Maybe some badly coloured strawberry jam. I think I can agree on that.

[Ray-The-Sun]

http://images.gamekult.com/blog/imgdb/000/000/495/602_3.jpg

Looks like they've realised how many children play Modern Crapshot 2 and have self-censored by making them paintball guns.

[der_ketzer]

Looks like they've realised how many children play Modern Crapshot 2 and have self-censored by making them paintball guns.

Nah. They just wanted to cover over half of the screen with it and noticed that while this might look hardcore it makes the player almost completely blind.

[SHODANFreeman]

My favorite is all the people criticizing the "bad framerate" of Puzzle Agent. Some people...

[taumel]

I'm almost solely after the Grickle mood, that's the reason why i care about his voice. I expect the music to be moody as well and if there even comes a convincing game then i wouldn't mind. Dunno Prof. Layton is quite lame compared to Grickle if You're looking at the Art only.

[Yadda]

IMHO both Grickle and Layton art-wise have their own charms. I'm a fan of anime, so the FMV scenes in layton appeal to me. But Grickle's style is one all it's own, and it's a great style at that.

[Raum]

One of the biggest problems in modern gaming is the idea that everything's been done to death, so why even focus on invention? If everyone thought like that, then why even bother making games? Just make movies if the puzzles are just hackneyed pauses between scenes that we've seen millions of times already.

It kills me when people say "I'll settle for unoriginality if the story's good." Why settle? We can have our cake and eat it too!

I just want to reiterate that I am not talking about Puzzle Agent, a game I have no right to criticize because I have not yet played. I'm talking about the general state of gaming.

Edit: Also, "creating wholly new ones can be quite the task"? I shouldn't demand more of my games because it might be hard for the designers? Boo hoo for them. I'd gladly wait longer for a truly great game.

Oh please. Like this has anything to do with what I said.

Invention, in this case, is making logical conundrums that are topologically different. Anyone who's dabbled just a tad with mathematics, game mechanics or puzzles know that essentially, most of what is produced is very similar in how it functions, if you look at it in a more abstract fashion. Puzzles generally aren't inventive, at all; and they pretty much can't be, unless they're made a lot more advanced.

This has nothing to do with how gaming as a whole is bad, the strawman-argument of me "settling for less" or whatever you're blabbering on about. This has to do with how designing good games aren't about just sitting down "being innovative", but about making sure the game ends up as a work that feels whole and autonomous. The design process isn't just arbitrary throwing together "innovative" stuff. You've got to take into account if the puzzle elements fits into the story, the feel of the game, if you can incorporate (or even use existing) premises of the setting or artwork, if the puzzle fits the humour or the atmosphere, or even the pacing.

You act as if similar puzzles is some kind of key indicator of gaming quality in general. Of course it isn't. Yes, gaming is in shambles right now, but that has nothing — at all — to do with how classic puzzles are used in puzzle games like Professor Layton or Puzzle Agent. I can tell you that right now, even without knowing anything about the puzzles in PA. So, let's just wait and see how the puzzles incorporate into the game, and don't get our panties in a twist just because some simpleton over at Joystiq can't think outside of comparisons.

[taumel]

@Yadda
Personally i can't stand the Layton art style.

On the other Side i really enjoy the Grickle Look and it's One of those rare games where you don't have to differ between the Cover Art and how the Game Looks in real.

I was often asking for Games which Look like the Concept/Cover Art and here it seems like i get what i want.

[Yadda]

Personally, I find the Layton art style quite charming. But then, to each his own. Some people like it, some don't. Same goes for everything.

[ShotgunStalker]

I think the reviewer got the stars messed up. Its supposed to be 5/3. Puzzle Agent deserves that

[LordKinbote]

Oh please. Like this has anything to do with what I said.

Invention, in this case, is making logical conundrums that are topologically different. Anyone who's dabbled just a tad with mathematics, game mechanics or puzzles know that essentially, most of what is produced is very similar in how it functions, if you look at it in a more abstract fashion. Puzzles generally aren't inventive, at all; and they pretty much can't be, unless they're made a lot more advanced.

This has nothing to do with how gaming as a whole is bad, the strawman-argument of me "settling for less" or whatever you're blabbering on about. This has to do with how designing good games aren't about just sitting down "being innovative", but about making sure the game ends up as a work that feels whole and autonomous. The design process isn't just arbitrary throwing together "innovative" stuff. You've got to take into account if the puzzle elements fits into the story, the feel of the game, if you can incorporate (or even use existing) premises of the setting or artwork, if the puzzle fits the humour or the atmosphere, or even the pacing.

You act as if similar puzzles is some kind of key indicator of gaming quality in general. Of course it isn't. Yes, gaming is in shambles right now, but that has nothing — at all — to do with how classic puzzles are used in puzzle games like Professor Layton or Puzzle Agent. I can tell you that right now, even without knowing anything about the puzzles in PA. So, let's just wait and see how the puzzles incorporate into the game, and don't get our panties in a twist just because some simpleton over at Joystiq can't think outside of comparisons.

Goddammit. I had a really long reply and Telltale's forums just lost it all. This is the second time in a few days.

Whatever. The general gist was:

1) You're taking my comments too personally. We're having an intelligent conversation, so I don't know that there's a need to. I never meant for my comments to reflect all of gaming (though innovation is not limited to just puzzles). They were only meant to reflect what *I* want out of *puzzle* games. There is absolutely a market for familiarity, but it's not personally what I want, because I play puzzle games to think. With Telltale Games, the story and atmosphere are always key ingredients, but part of it has to be the satisfaction of solving the puzzles, and if I know the answer after a cursory glance because I've seen the puzzle before, I didn't solve anything. I pretty much answered a trivia question.

2) You're 90% right about abstraction. Most puzzles *are* just different takes on the same puzzle. What we consider to be innovation is often just smoke and mirrors, and if my mind is fooled into thinking what I'm seeing is new, then what's the difference? However, even a slight change to the given rules of a puzzle is enough to provide a whole new experience. Do you know how many variations on Sudoku there are? Dozens. And most of them are more interesting than the original.

I do think we do have to leave a little room for the truly new, hence the 90%. If I've already seen some form of every puzzle that will ever be, I'll be depressed.

But let's take the sock puzzle for a moment. My main beef is that there IS no abstraction. They could have gotten rid of the socks and kept the main probability mechanism, and then at the very least I would have had to read the puzzle and say "Hey, this is kinda like that sock problem!" If there is no abstraction, that means that the puzzle had to have come first, and that means it had to be shoehorned (sockhorned?) into the story. I can't tell without playing the game whether that was done well or not.

Anyway, I'll stop ragging on a game I haven't played. Just realize I don't think the gaming industry will implode because of its misuse of puzzles. I didn't throw Red Dead Redemption into the trash because of its lack of puzzles. I know there are people out there who called Red Dead Redemption derivative of Grand Theft Auto (Grand Theft Horse), but I think most would agree that it's abstraction on the main concept in its story, atmosphere, and gameplay was enough to make it a great game.

[taumel]

Personally, I find the Layton art style quite charming. But then, to each his own. Some people like it, some don't. Same goes for everything.

You mean there really exist people who don't like peppermint ice cream?

[akaimizu]

Yep. But there are none that don't like Mint Chocolate Chip. (Hehe. Just kidding, but until stuff like Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough came out, it seemed like it was always the first ice-cream to run out first.)

[TomPravetz]

http://gamesgoldandglory.blogspot.com/2010/06/nelson-tethers-puzzle-agent-review_2910.html :D

[Toast_Burner]

http://gamesgoldandglory.blogspot.com/2010/06/nelson-tethers-puzzle-agent-review_2910.html :D
That was a much better review for three reasons
1) He didn't go on about Professor Layton
2) He actually mentioned Grinkle and that the game was made with Grinkle fans in mind
3) He gave a much better image of what to expect from bove the gameplay and story

[Ribs]

For those wondering: You can turn voices off. If you want. And It'll just be speech bubbles.

[jeeno0142]

That was a much better review for three reasons
1) He didn't go on about Professor Layton
2) He actually mentioned Grinkle and that the game was made with Grinkle fans in mind
3) He gave a much better image of what to expect from bove the gameplay and story

Fixed. At least I assume that's what you mean, as I saw no mention of it.

[TomPravetz]

That was a much better review for three reasons
1) He did go on about Professor Layton
2) He actually mentioned Grickle and that the game was made with Grickle fans in mind
3) He gave a much better image of what to expect from bove the gameplay and story

Me? I won? Really?

[Toast_Burner]

Me? I won? Really?

You wrote it? well it is a bit shoddy, and beating Joystiq isnt that much of an accomplishment. :p

[TomPravetz]

You wrote it? well it is a bit shoddy, and beating Joystiq isnt that much of an accomplishment. :p

Oh sure. It's shoddy when I wrote it! :P

[Toast_Burner]

Oh sure. It's shoddy when I wrote it! :P

Well duh, it's you. i'm not expecting much from you anyway

[TomPravetz]

Well duh, it's you. i'm not expecting much from you anyway

Well you burnt my toast!

[HelloCthulhu]

Quiet or I will eat you both!

[Yadda]

Just a side-note...

Will people quit calling it 'Grinkle' already?!

It's GRICKLE. Geez.

[RingmasterJ5]

Just a side-note...

Will people quit calling it 'Grinkle' already?!

It's GRICKLE. Geez.

Uhh... I don't think anyone has.

[Yadda]

That was a much better review for three reasons
1) He didn't go on about Professor Layton
2) He actually mentioned Grinkle and that the game was made with Grinkle fans in mind
3) He gave a much better image of what to expect from bove the gameplay and story

Example A. I'd list more, but I don't want to spend the time necessary when I need to be getting ready for my flight tomorrow afternoon.

[[TTG] Yare]

It's hilarious to see all the kids who think that Professor Layton invented the solve-puzzles-in-GUI-to-advance type game.

This series is one of the main reasons I tended toward math/logic/programming growing up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_of_Dr._Brain

The game also features Hint Coins, which the player earns by solving puzzles and can use for assistance on puzzles they are having difficulty with.

HOW DARE THEY RIP OFF PROFESSOR LAYTON. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. THEY- what's that? Dr. Brain came out 17 years before Layton?

Ah.

Well then.

[GinnyN]

And this was the Prof. Yare flash class about Video Game History.

[KLind]

Yare;337653']It's hilarious to see all the kids who think that Professor Layton invented the solve-puzzles-in-GUI-to-advance type game.

This series is one of the main reasons I tended toward math/logic/programming growing up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_of_Dr._Brain



HOW DARE THEY RIP OFF PROFESSOR LAYTON. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. THEY- what's that? Dr. Brain came out 17 years before Layton?

Ah.

Well then.
Clearly there's a connection in The Time Warp of Dr. Brain, wherein he traveled forward in time to rip off Professor Layton. Professor Layton invented hints after all.

[OzzieMonkey]

Here's all of our reviews

http://www.culturalzest.com/2010/06/30/review-nelson-tethers-puzzle-agent/

[Toast_Burner]

Just a side-note...

Will people quit calling it 'Grinkle' already?!

It's GRICKLE. Geez.

It's not my fault I can't spell... well it is but.. SHUT UP!!!

[DAISHI]

I'd give the game a 6 or 7. Promising but lots of room for improvement. I think I remember seeing a spelling error in one of the text bubbles, which made me chuckle.

[LordKinbote]

Now that I've actually had a chance to play the game, I can actually speak to the quality of the puzzles...

...and it turns out most of my fears about unabstracted chestnut puzzles were unfounded. There were a lot of quality puzzles, I had to put my mind to work often, and even the puzzles that I had seen before were presented in such a way to make them at least slightly interesting again. For example, I knew the Moose Ear Sign puzzle answer after 5 seconds, but it still had a neat, obscuring presentation.

The sock puzzle, though, remains my least favorite because (as stated before I played the game) it doesn't present itself in an original way at ALL, nor does it even try to connect itself to the plot. I can't remember for sure, but I don't even think the character picking out socks is the same character that you get the puzzle from.

Did I have any other problems with the puzzles? Just minor quibbles...as stated in other threads, a few puzzles were a bit ambiguous. The main offender was the puzzle in the alley where you had to guide the stream. I ran into the same problem that everyone else ran into: I assumed that you didn't need to fill every outlined square.

Also, this isn't really a problem with the *game* per se, but I am a lover of puzzles like Sudoku, Nurikabe, Slither Link, etc...logic puzzles with one unique solution. The benefit of such puzzles is that, when you're right, you know you're right. Several of the puzzles in Puzzle Agent were of the type "Find the minimum solution" which are all well and good, but it's pretty darn hard to prove that the solution you have is the minimum one. It's leads to moments of trepidation, your hand hovering over the submit button unsure of whether you should press.

A good puzzle, to me, gives you a feeling of satisfaction because you know you've solved it. A "minimum solution" puzzle *might* provide satisfaction, but for me they primarily either provide worry and then disappointment, or worry and then relief.

Overall, great game, and the puzzles were significantly better than I feared.

[browen]

Lordkinbote, did you know the answer to the moose ear sign puzzle from "The Simpsons"? Who else other than me instantly remembered that episode where Lisa can't figure out the puzzle so she thinks she is dumb?

[LordKinbote]

Lordkinbote, did you know the answer to the moose ear sign puzzle from "The Simpsons"? Who else other than me instantly remembered that episode where Lisa can't figure out the puzzle so she thinks she is dumb?

I totally know what you're talking about, but I've seen it so many times other than in that episode that it didn't cross my mind. I like to give it to my math students when we're studying patterns.

[Linque]

Yare;337653']This series is one of the main reasons I tended toward math/logic/programming growing up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_of_Dr._Brain


The Island of Dr. Brain was a favorite for me. Programming the robot was so much fun back then.

[StingingVelvet]

I like how they act like Professor Layton invented the genre.

[nodoctors]

Lordkinbote, did you know the answer to the moose ear sign puzzle from "The Simpsons"? Who else other than me instantly remembered that episode where Lisa can't figure out the puzzle so she thinks she is dumb?

Right here.

[Elvenmonk]

No wonder it's a bad review. It's Justin. He's like the worst writer for that site.[Removed my incorrect comment here. He's their podcast guy. There was another Justin they hired during E3 who messed up big]
@Yare
That's because when a game makes a genre well known everyone acts like it invinted it. People tell me CoD invented modern combat games. (I wrote a longer [and better]response but my laptop's mouse pad glitched and when typing it refreshed the page.) People were constantly telling me Brutal Legend was a copy of Dynasty warriors (don't know why). Or everytime I play 3D Dot Game Heroes people always say "HOW DID NINTENDO NOT SUE THEM?! THIS COMPANY NEEDS TO GO OUT OF BUISNESS!" and such, despite them not even playing the game. Or how a lot of people(from personal experience) act like FF invented RPGs. Everytime I play an SMT game it gets called an FF clone and that the company (once again) needs to go out of buisness. Except Nocturne and Devil Summoner. Which those get called Pokemonclones (despite them doing that since SMT and MT games on the NES).

SMT= Shin Megami Tensei
MT= Megami Tensei

[NotFury]

Lordkinbote, did you know the answer to the moose ear sign puzzle from "The Simpsons"? Who else other than me instantly remembered that episode where Lisa can't figure out the puzzle so she thinks she is dumb?

Yep. Got that puzzle in 4 seconds.

[NotFury]

No wonder it's a bad review. It's Justin. He's like the worst writer for that site. He even said some pretty negative things about Sony's, Nintendo's, EA's, and Ubi's E3.(Even his interviews were so bad that they had to have someone re-interview Miyamoto due to him pissing off half of joystiq for such a terrible interview)

@Yare
That's because when a game makes a genre well known everyone acts like it invinted it. People tell me CoD invented modern combat games. (I wrote a longer [and better]response but my laptop's mouse pad glitched and when typing it refreshed the page.) People were constantly telling me Brutal Legend was a copy of Dynasty warriors (don't know why). Or everytime I play 3D Dot Game Heroes people always say "HOW DID NINTENDO NOT SUE THEM?! THIS COMPANY NEEDS TO GO OUT OF BUISNESS!" and such, despite them not even playing the game. Or how a lot of people(from personal experience) act like FF invented RPGs. Everytime I play an SMT game it gets called an FF clone and that the company (once again) needs to go out of buisness. Except Nocturne and Devil Summoner. Which those get called Pokemonclones (despite them doing that since SMT and MT games on the NES).

SMT= Shin Megami Tensei
MT= Megami Tensei

Persona 4 = Greatest JRPG ever created. Nuff said.

[Elvenmonk]

Persona 4 = Greatest JRPG ever created. Nuff said.

Not to sound like the cool hip guy orwhatever. But my first one played was Nocturne then DDS before Persona was made an SMT game. I remember when 3 came out and I was like "Why's it an SMT now?"
Granted I do own all SMT games on the PS2 and DS. Currently trying to get the rest of them(PS one, Saturn, GBC, and down).

I've yet to play P4 (Trying to finish up The Answer for 3 but just grinded out, plus everytime I play my brother does nothing but try to make fun of the game and talk about how they need to be sued since they're shooting themselves in the head and how it can affect children, and blah blah blah. Which I always want to call him a hypocrit because he always badmouth's retarded lawsuits such as that.) but I like DDS better then P3, and not due to the if your leader dies it's game over, or uncontrollable party, just felt DDS was better.

[NotFury]

Not to sound like the cool hip guy orwhatever. But my first one played was Nocturne then DDS before Persona was made an SMT game. I remember when 3 came out and I was like "Why's it an SMT now?"
Granted I do own all SMT games on the PS2 and DS. Currently trying to get the rest of them(PS one, Saturn, GBC, and down).

I've yet to play P4 (Trying to finish up The Answer for 3 but just grinded out, plus everytime I play my brother does nothing but try to make fun of the game and talk about how they need to be sued since they're shooting themselves in the head and how it can affect children, and blah blah blah. Which I always want to call him a hypocrit because he always badmouth's retarded lawsuits such as that.) but I like DDS better then P3, and not due to the if your leader dies it's game over, or uncontrollable party, just felt DDS was better.

P4 is significantly better than Persona 3. A lot of grievances are fixed, combat is better and you can control your entire party. The plot is also a lot better, it even explains all the loop holes in a bonus chapter. The characters also have better voice actors and are a lot more likeable.

And no shitty "Oh, you died at the end" ending. Which makes the game infinitely better than the shite ending of 3. I didn't play FES though, but read the summary online.

Apparently the main dude IS ressurected, it's hinted at in a social link (that I didn't do, read online) in P4.

[Elvenmonk]

Way to spoil some of P3 there.
And I love P3 and feel it has good voice acting and a nice story.
P3 is nice, it had some problems since the people were AI controlled but it was a great game with a good story. And the ending to P3 I felt was great. Granted, now if people here are playing through P3 or planned to or whatever you did just ruin the ending, which is something to have avoided. And to ruinP4 for me aswell.

[Katsuro]

Durrrrrrr spoil spoil durrrr

Why thank you. Who wants to waste time on playing good games anyways right?

[Elvenmonk]

Why thank you. Who wants to waste time on playing good games anyways right?

Oh, you weren't playing through P3 or planning to were you?
Or were you commenting on how he just read P3's story and made a oppinion about it then?

[NotFury]

Why thank you. Who wants to waste time on playing good games anyways right?

If you haven't played a 4 year old PS2 game by now, you wouldn't be playing it in the future. The only way to buy it is to get it second hand online.

I didn't even spoil anything anyway. The entire game goes on about "Memento Mori" and "Remember that one day, you will die" from the opening cutscene, so it was hardly surprising.

[SHODANFreeman]

If you haven't played a 4 year old game by now, you wouldn't be playing it in the future.

This must also include the thousands of people who hadn't played Monkey Island until this past year. :rolleyes:

[Elvenmonk]

If you haven't played a 4 year old PS2 game by now, you wouldn't be playing it in the future. The only way to buy it is to get it second hand online.

I didn't even spoil anything anyway. The entire game goes on about "Memento Mori" and "Remember that one day, you will die" from the opening cutscene, so it was hardly surprising.
Are you kidding I just started Portal(ofcourse I beat it in one short sitting. Nice game, too easy of puzzles is the only bad thing about it) and HL2. I still need to finish Silent Hill 2,and many more games. I also still haven't beaten Devil Summoner and I'm working towards that. I find older games more interesting then most newer games.