Massive Sam and Max Copyright infringement.

[Shawni]

A friend and myself were surfing through the net when we found this http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4245498

Two people are using the Sam and Max characters unlicensed to create a side scrolling beat'em up game, and are charging people from the furry fandom $50 to add their characters to said game.

This is profiting off the Sam and Max character names and franchise and a blatent copyright infringement.

I didn't know where else to post this.
-Shawni

[Cheri]

Urgh. Somebody should get on them, stat.

[Gogeta504]

woow this is really serious and they need to watch the intro credits because its steve purcell who created sam and max and not them !!!! ... woow EPIC FAIL ON THEM ON FURRAFFINITY !!!! =P

[Shawni]

I hope TellTale takes it to them.

[Avel]

Dear God...there's a NSFW version. Why has He forsaken us? Why?!


Also, the teeth are all wrong. Why God, why?!

[Falanca]

Dear God...there's a NSFW version. Why has He forsaken us? Why?!


Also, the teeth are all wrong. Why God, why?!

The worst thing is that Sam wears no golden shorts in that NSFW version.


Plus, a link to FurAffinity in my Telltale Forum makes me sad :'(

[The Gentleman]

Get the law on those furry asses.

[Major_Higgins]

Yeah, burn the furry bastards!

And 50 bucks? What the hell?!

[SlasherMan]

:eek: SOB. Please, someone sue these idiots. They cant just use the characters willy nilly and make profit out of them. This better be solved quickly. :( For shame...

[Javi-Wan Kenobi]

Using the characters for a non official game should be enough for sue them. Anyway, these kind of games are usually fan-made non-profit enterprises and the copyright owners use to be a bit lenient about them.
But in this case, it obviously isn't a non-profit game. $50!!! They got a nerve...

[RingmasterJ5]

I hope they sue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeXQBHLIPcw) them for all they're worth. Seriously? $50? That's just wrong.

[BoneFreak]

Using the characters for a non official game should be enough for sue them.

Not exactly, I assume Telltale has it where you can make fan art and fan creations, just as long as you acknowledge the creators and don't make profit.

These people, however, are making profit.

Telltale could probably easily win this court case, though. As the post says, it's only 2 guys making it and if they'll need people's $50 then they must not be loaded.

However, I want the case in court to be filmed, or at least in a court that films all it's cases (Judge Judy, anyone?) :D.

[RingmasterJ5]

However, I want the case in court to be filmed, or at least in a court that films all it's cases (Judge Judy, anyone?) :D.

That would be awesome.

[DJYellow22]

http://legi0n.789chan.org/i/res/879.html

Not sure if this would help at all. (Or infact make everything worse...)

[Gibbeynator]

This is such an outrage, I'm not even going to ask why you were looking for Sam and Max on Furaffinity.

[GreenVodka]

The worst thing is that Sam wears no golden shorts in that NSFW version.

I am so glad that when I try to click on the NSFW version it tells me I'm not allowed to view it. I thought it was because I don't have a furaffinity account, but now I think it is because my laptop values my eyes.

I hope telltale (or whoever) put a stop to this. they are going to make quite a profit off sam n max if they charge $50 a character. If it was all free, itd be a kinda neat fan game (minus the furries), but charging like that grrrrr.

[crash 1001]

Sue them!sue them!im gona beat the crap outta the people who made that game!the people who made the game had better give credit or else :mad:

now to make us more happy heres guybrush doing some type of dance
:guybrush:

[SillyStell]

I suppose Sam and Max being around the furry comunity was a no brainer and I guess people would like to make a fangame at some point... BUT $50!?! Just to have so some smuck could have their poorly drawn, brightly coloured monstoriousty of a "character" in a probably generic game? Now that just an't right!

[DJYellow22]

I suppose Sam and Max being around the furry comunity was a no brainer and I guess people would like to make a fangame at some point... BUT $50!?! Just to have so some smuck could have their poorly drawn, brightly coloured monstoriousty of a "character" in a probably generic game? Now that just an't right!

This post pretty much explains why I hate furries.

[jeeno0142]

Geez, what are these people thinking? Didn't they realise that it's illegal? I agree with the 'sue them' idea. I can't believe some of those commenters are actually willing to pay the money.

[Hassat Hunter]

This post pretty much explains why I hate furries.
Because... we... eh... nope, not making any sense out of this.

So please explain, why DO you hate me? I am pretty sure I never made a S&M fangame and charged for it... :rolleyes:

[DJYellow22]

Because... we... eh... nope, not making any sense out of this.

So please explain, why DO you hate me? I am pretty sure I never made a S&M fangame and charged for it... :rolleyes:

Depends, either you stir up unwanted drama or you rape my childhood.

Of course, I only hate those kinds of Furries. :P

[BoneFreak]

I don't know what's sadder.. that it's infringing or that the people who posted there ACTUALLY want to give in.

And knowing what crap there is from these people as well as the junk I've seen on deviant art... the game will suck.

[Chaosprower]

Actually it's legal...

The fangame itself is free and non-commercial.

They're doing commisions for your characters. It's common in art sites. You pay x amount of money for a drawing. In this case, you pay 50$ for a full sprite sheet of your character.

[Hassat Hunter]

Depends, either you stir up unwanted drama or you rape my childhood.
I've seen plenty of unwanted drama here over nutri-specs, early Ipad releases and other stuff...
Of course, I only hate those kinds of Furries. :P
Well, then be more specific next time.
Actually it's legal...

The fangame itself is free and non-commercial.
I don't think it is in fact. Fangame, yes. Commissions, yes. Adding commissions to the fangame using copyrights, getting very edgy here.

For example I am a developer of a fangame for a gamefranchise, and the current owner of the IP made it pretty clear we are allowed to continue, but only if we make profit in NO WAY. So no selling booster packs, or custom avatars or wheter which would resemble what happens here, but would infact not have anything to do with the "real IP"...

[Hayley the Hedgie]

Jesus Christ get that weak stuff off the interwebs PLEASE for the love of Sam & Max!!!! :(

[Rakushun]

Um....what were you doing on furaffinity in the first place?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Sam and Max attracts that kind of fanbase, but it's still creepy.

[Blooglspash]

Don't look now, but bubbledncr (from Telltale) is looking at this Thread! (According to the Who's Active list.) Justice will be served!

[Shawni]

To everyone who was wondering, I was on FA in the first place because I do have an account there. I like some of the art (most of it just creeps me out). I just stumbled on this issue while I was browsing. Good thing I guess, seeing as every other furry who's seen it is all about going along with it >>

[RoadRunner]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Lucas Arts still owns the copyright to Sam and Max, and TellTale just licenses the characters. That would make Lucas Arts the correct people to take any legal action, which is good since they have a much larger legal staff (I assume).

[Hassat Hunter]

every other furry who's seen it is all about going along with it >>
I ain't.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that Lucas Arts still owns the copyright to Sam and Max, and TellTale just licenses the characters.
UTTER FAIL.
No offense.

[Shwoo]

Isn't the furry thing kind of irrelevant to the actual issue? I don't think you need to be a furry to do something like this.

I think this is pretty copyright infringing. They didn't even put it in the fanart category. In fact, I see no acknowledgement that the characters aren't theirs at all.

And there is some good art on that site as long as you keep the filters on.

[JedExodus]

I've looked at this thread about 5 times now and I can't get the words out to express my dissapointment at this development.

I'll just call the developers a pair of wank lobsters and leave it at that

[Avel]

I agree, if only because "wank lobsters" made me giggle.

[Sausy Gibbon]

I hope I'm not the only one looking up if and where lobsters have genetailia, becuase of 'wank lobsters'.
It shouldn't be an issue of seing them maybe just tell them to stop making money from their intellectual property and if that doesn't work they could choose to take legal action.

[FitzoliverJ]

Actually it's legal...

Not if

a) it's correctly stated further up the thread that they claim to have created the characters themselves.

b) this whole "give me $50" thing is just a scam.

[Shwoo]

They didn't say that Sam and Max were their characters, but they gave no real indication that they weren't. Except maybe in the members only screenshot, and I was going to check that one, but I couldn't remember my name, my password, or the email address I used to sign up, so I didn't. Which is probably for the best.

[Cyrus7]

I am a developer of a fangame for a gamefranchise

What game franchise?

[Falanca]

I want Hassat Hunter to explain who a "furry" is, if he'd like to do so. That way we can avoid confusion and stop jumping onto conclusions.

[lattsam]

I tried going on that site this morning, and it led to a blank page.

I think justice might have been served...

[jannar85]

Nope, still working.

[Chaosprower]

I think this is pretty copyright infringing. They didn't even put it in the fanart category. In fact, I see no acknowledgement that the characters aren't theirs at all.

Here:

There is no intention of selling the game, that's going to be distributed for free. Incidently, TellTale Games probably has distribution rights now.

[coolsome]

sam and max are gona be pissed when they find out!

[Crrash]

sam and max are furries?

oh god .... oh god.... no..... i never realized that

[homsarthesong]

Your kidding! max doesnt even look right! WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPINING!

[jeeno0142]

A little of topic, but....
I have a question. Some of you are members of the website and some of you seem to despise the website. So my question is... what is the website all about? I'm merely curious as I've never heard of it until now, whereas you all seem to have.

[Hassat Hunter]

I hope I'm not the only one looking up if and where lobsters have genetailia, becuase of 'wank lobsters'.
Eeeeeh...
What game franchise?
Majesty.
Game1: http://majestyquest.com/
Game2: http://majesty2.com/
And, finally, the fangame: http://www.heroesofardania.net/
IP belongs to Paradox (final link): http://www.paradoxplaza.com/
I want Hassat Hunter to explain who a "furry" is, if he'd like to do so. That way we can avoid confusion and stop jumping onto conclusions.
Someone who likes anthromorphic animals (basically animals that act like humans, walking on 2, and wearing clothes etc.) style. Basically if you like many Disneyfilms you already fit the description.
sam and max are furries?
They are anthromorphic animals. So; yeah?
A little of topic, but....
I have a question. Some of you are members of the website and some of you seem to despise the website. So my question is... what is the website all about? I'm merely curious as I've never heard of it until now, whereas you all seem to have.
It's a website for art. anthromorphic art. Also known as "furry" art.
It's like Deviant Art, specifically for one artstyle (furry).

[Dallen]

The website is a place to share anthropomorphic art. Its related to what is called the furry fandom, which is a community of individuals interested in anthropomorphics. Some people within the community like to create their own anthropomorphic characters as an extension of themselves for fun. Drawing themselves as if they were an anthropomorphic cartoon character.

[Falanca]

Someone who likes anthromorphic animals (basically animals that act like humans, walking on 2, and wearing clothes etc.) style. Basically if you like many Disneyfilms you already fit the description.

You know that that word is generally not used for this description, right?

[Hassat Hunter]

True.
But that doesn't make the description wrong. That is what furry is.

[Falanca]

I prefer "my" generalization since yours simply gathers all cartoon addicts, and there isn't much of a "dramatic" difference between the people out of the generalization and inside the generalization. It also makes me wonder what to call "those" ones.

I prefer myself as a cartoon addict more than a furry tbh. That name is infamous.




EDIT: 1337 POST YO

[Hassat Hunter]

Oh,

And every christian is a pedophile.
Every islamitic person is a terrorist.
Gays are evil and sick.

To name just 3 similar stereotypes. Do you agree with all 3 too, now?

[Falanca]

Christian has a meaning. Pedophile has another. Muslim has a meaning. Terrorist has another. Gay has a meaning. Faggot has another. They're claimed to be stereotypes (I don't agree with none) because either some people pointed out or rumored the relationships between each two words.

I'm just saying that if we call every anthropomorphic fictional character lover a furry, what should we call those who want to fuck bears? Those people are called furries by most of people already, and the furries theirselves -in your definition- have nothing against calling only those ones furries. Furry is not a religion, not a race or a sexual decision people have to make, so it's not that important, it just includes a MAJORITY of humanity, even so that watching cartoons and seeing and liking anthropomorphic characters can be considered a social NORM, and that simply means there is not even a need to give a name to that grouping. We can just call all those people cartoon lovers or something similar, and get on with it. It's NOTHING about stereotypes or anything, there is no need to be sensitive about anything.

[Hassat Hunter]

How about "a furry who likes to fuck bears". Last I checked we didn't have special words for pedo christians, terrorist muslims or evil gays.

Or we could just make up new words, like how anime lovers like terms as "Yuri" or "Yaoi". Which, oddly enough, has far less negative view than "furry". Although, at least to me, it sounds kind of aweful (and 'more screwed up in the head') wanting to see schoolgirls make out with each other.

[Falanca]

How about "a furry who likes to fuck bears".

It's just... I'm sorry, it just sounds redundant. :/

[Jen Kollic]

Trust a furry to think that the next step forward for the Sam & Max franchise is a game where everyone gets their cock out. Ugh. Even if they're supplying it free of charge, I'm pretty sure that the owners of the IP (isn't that still Steve Purcell?) can slap them with a C&D letter if they're doing this kind of stuff with it, I'm pretty sure Disney's done that to people who've made pornographic images of their characters. (though that doesn't seem to stop them)

Also, I totally agree with Falanca on the definition of furry issue. Liking cartoons which feature anthropomorphic animals =/= furry, otherwise everyone who's ever watched the Disney channel would be a furry. I think for me, the definition would be that if you like something that involves anthros, fine, but if you want to be an anthro/have sex with one, then you're a furry.

[xbskid]

Okay, so the issue here is that someone created a non-commercial game starring Sam & Max, which is, I gather, perfectly legal, and they are now charging people for custom character design and inclusion in said game?

They are [supposedly] making money by charging people for creating in-game assets and including them with their game, which they are still not charging for. They seem to be profiting from the game indirectly.

[Dallen]

People need to stop saying this is legal. This is NOT legal. They are using Sam and Max's names and likenesses without permission which is by no stretch of imagination legal.

[Jen Kollic]

I don't think it's legal for them to make the game if it's non-commercial, The Silver Lining (unofficial King's Quest game) is totally non-commercial (and actually treats the IP with respect) and the creators have had recurring legal issues with Activision. (I think one of the conditions was that the fan game was not allowed to use the King's Quest name at all) I don't know enough about copyright law to know what the exact legal issues would be, but I'm sure that what these guys are doing is completely illegal since they're charging people to be included in the game.

Really, if they want to make a furry NSFW scrolling beat-em-up, why the hell do they even need Sam & Max for it? They could just use non-licensed characters, then there's no legal issues. (I think)

ETA: Disney has successfully sued kintergartens for painting Disney characters on the walls so yeah, using licensed characters without permission is definitely not kosher. They can't really call this fanart either, it's a game.

[coolsome]

How about "a furry who likes to fuck bears". Last I checked we didn't have special words for pedo christians, terrorist muslims or evil gays.

Or we could just make up new words, like how anime lovers like terms as "Yuri" or "Yaoi". Which, oddly enough, has far less negative view than "furry". Although, at least to me, it sounds kind of aweful (and 'more screwed up in the head') wanting to see schoolgirls make out with each other.

not all yaoi/yuri is like that. I like yaoi with cool storys involving ninjas or fighting smexy heros rather then school boys.

[Harald B]

Okay, so the issue here is that someone created a non-commercial game starring Sam & Max, which is, I gather, perfectly legal,No it's not. Many companies would have their lawyers send Cease-and-Desist letters over this much alone.
They are [supposedly] making money by charging people for creating in-game assets and including them with their game, which they are still not charging for. They seem to be profiting from the game indirectly.Be that as it may, they're still using Sam & Max as a key ingredient in a money-making operation without permission. That's ethically questionable at best.
I don't like inciting a company to bring out the lawyers against individuals, especially for something on the internet, but here sending one of those letters seems the appropriate step to take.

[Giant Tope]

wait

is someone comparing sexual orientation to being a furry

[Harald B]

About the off-topic veering topic: TV Tropes seems to hit the mark with a readable, informative and friendly page on the Furry Fandom (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FurryFandom).

[coolsome]

wait

is someone comparing sexual orientation to being a furry

a furry said to me that cos im gay I should understand the predusise against him I just loled.

[Giant Tope]

I mean, I don't condone bullying, but that just seems like a horribly erroneous comparison. Like comparing furries to women. Or asians.

[sfox]

I don't think it's legal for them to make the game if it's non-commercial, The Silver Lining (unofficial King's Quest game) is totally non-commercial (and actually treats the IP with respect) and the creators have had recurring legal issues with Activision. (I think one of the conditions was that the fan game was not allowed to use the King's Quest name at all) I don't know enough about copyright law to know what the exact legal issues would be, but I'm sure that what these guys are doing is completely illegal since they're charging people to be included in the game.


It's true that fan games in general aren't legal without direct permission from copyright owners, but for the most part, only certain overly protective companies stop people from creating those kinds of things. Most companies see fan projects as a positive thing and some even actively encourage it, like Valve for example.

It is pretty bad to make money off of fan games though, that's just wrong.

[Hassat Hunter]

I mean, I don't condone bullying, but that just seems like a horribly erroneous comparison. Like comparing furries to women. Or asians.
More; nerds, or animefans, or soaplovers, or, well, pretty much every other interest out there.

[Giant Tope]

Uh no.

subcultures=/=something you're inborn with

pretty sure being gay, a woman, or asian is not an interest.

[Hassat Hunter]

Exactly.

Ehm, what exactly is the problem then?
Getting a little confused here as to your point.

[Wootman]

Furries ruin another good thing.

[Avel]

If we're going on technicality, they're only really making money off of the inclusion of original characters, so they could tenuously claim to fall within fair use as long as no assets are taken from the source material.

Purcell (or perhaps even Telltale) would certainly be within his rights to send a cease and desist notice though.

And HaraldB posted up a good article (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FurryFandom) too in case anyone whiffed on it.

Lawsuit probably wouldn't be in the cards at any rate since there's so little to be had. Unless you really want whatever is under their parents' basement's couch cushions.

Edit: Honestly though, I think this thread has outlived its usefulness and should probably be allowed to sink into the abyss.

[Shwoo]

Most companies don't seem to care about fanworks as long as they're not done for profit or are bad for it in some other way.

There's also a Sam & Max fanfic on that site that was a paid commission. It's explict, though, so I can't link to it to prove it.

And there may be a lot of creepy furries, but not everybody who identifies as a furry is creepy.

[Hassat Hunter]

Furries ruin another good thing.
Because TTG can now never make a Sam&Max game again. Hell, they even cancelled 305 now...

[/Sarcasm]

[Giant Tope]

Exactly.

Ehm, what exactly is the problem then?
Getting a little confused here as to your point.

You can't compare furries to anything inborn. Which you were doing.

[Hassat Hunter]

Really?
Where?

[light_rises]

Hassat, I think what happened is that this:

More; nerds, or animefans, or soaplovers, or, well, pretty much every other interest out there.

got associated with this half of the comparison:

Like comparing furries to women. Or asians.

instead of this:

Like comparing furries to women. Or asians.

... which I believe is what you intended, but wasn't clear the way you wrote the post (I initially parsed the same meaning as Giant Tope, FWIW).

[nodoctors]

Wow. Just wow. This thread opened my eyes to things I will never unsee. But in exchange, it made me feel a lot better about my personal life.

[Shawni]

As I said, the reason I started this thread was so that the people who own and control the Sam and Max Copyright do something about those dumwits on FA.

[bubbledncr]

Don't look now, but bubbledncr (from Telltale) is looking at this Thread! (According to the Who's Active list.) Justice will be served!

Indeed, I've been following this thread since it started.

[supmandude85]

Indeed, I've been following this thread since it started.

Please take action as soon as possible. It's so creepy in my opinion

[Sausy Gibbon]

I'll believe Hassat when I see a furry in the white house. :D

[Magic Emperor]

I got nothing. I can't think of any words to describe... I literally can't. I feel like Mrs. White from the Clue movie; "Flames, flames--flames on the side of my face, breathing--breath--heaving breaths, heaving..."

[dumpling321]

wow... that is sooooo wrong...

[roberttitus]

a furry said to me that cos im gay I should understand the predusise against him I just loled.

I don't mean this in a mean way whatsoever, but I KNEW IT! No straight man would use that screen name.



On another note... anybody who is sexually attracted to anything out of there species (real or fake) is just a jacked in brain freak. I mean these "furries" would have to think like that considering the sheer amount of cartoon animal porn out there & the fact that the game in question has a NSFW version. While I have nothing against bisexuals, gays, christians, jews, muslims, blacks, asians (hell... my wife is one) or anything else that is mentioned in this thread, I do have a MAJOR problem with furries... I mean that shit is one step away from beastiality.

[Shwoo]

As it turns out we are scrapping the sam and max angle in favor of something more palatable for us. Though Id think Lucas arts or whoever owns the rights to them would have much better things to do then sue some guys for a game, but then Id be surprised.
They posted that in response to a mention of the legal problems.

[thesporkman]

http://xkcd.com/471/

[Hatley]

Someone who likes anthromorphic animals (basically animals that act like humans, walking on 2, and wearing clothes etc.) style. Basically if you like many Disneyfilms you already fit the description.

Of course, there are also those who take the furry stuff to a disgusting fetish level. They're the kind people usually hate.

[Shwoo]

http://xkcd.com/471/
I would have liked that comic better if he hadn't been using the sexual definition like there was no other.

[Falanca]

Most people think there is no other.

[The Highway]

I'm not even going to ask why you were looking for Sam and Max on Furaffinity.

too true

[Falanca]

I too have a FurAffinity account because I'm in Sonic fandom and I thought FurAffinity was simply a site created for anthropomorphic character-related artworks. FurAffinity was actually THE site taught me that there were a bunch of people looking at my beloved cartoon characters "the other way".

[Shwoo]

Most people think there is no other.
In the same way that most people think that video games are GTA and Pac-man?

[Zonino]

The only problem I have with furries is that they keep going on and on and on about it and how they think they're special because they're being persicuted and whatnot.

Really, that's the only reason to hate them. People who hate them because of their fetish are really just hypocrites because I don't think there's anyone out there who isn't into something... strange. Most people just have the sence to keep it to themselves!

There is one thing that confuses me about the furry hate though, which is why people think it's too close to beastiality. I mean, take the likes of Star Trek, where multi race relationships are everywhere. Hell even Odo in Deep Space Nine got some lovin and he was from a race of shapeshifting goo people. Even in Mass Effect 2, Garrus is the prefered love interest for people who play Female Shepard and he has horse shaped legs and a very non human face.

Hate the annoying furries for the real reasons: The fact that they don't shut up about it and that they keep destroying childhood memories. I say bad furries because there are people out there who just like anthromorphic art. I myself like seeing cartoon animals in hilarious human situations.

As an Edit, I'd like to cover some more points in focus (I really should have read all of this topic first, oh well!):

Christian has a meaning. Pedophile has another. Muslim has a meaning. Terrorist has another. Gay has a meaning. Faggot has another. They're claimed to be stereotypes (I don't agree with none) because either some people pointed out or rumored the relationships between each two words.

I'm just saying that if we call every anthropomorphic fictional character lover a furry, what should we call those who want to fuck bears? Those people are called furries by most of people already, and the furries theirselves -in your definition- have nothing against calling only those ones furries. Furry is not a religion, not a race or a sexual decision people have to make, so it's not that important, it just includes a MAJORITY of humanity, even so that watching cartoons and seeing and liking anthropomorphic characters can be considered a social NORM, and that simply means there is not even a need to give a name to that grouping. We can just call all those people cartoon lovers or something similar, and get on with it. It's NOTHING about stereotypes or anything, there is no need to be sensitive about anything.

I both agree and disagree here. There's nothing wrong with people who like anthropomorphic characters but there's also nothing wrong with a group of people wanting a collective name. Unfortunently words and names tend to get twisted or invented, usually by ignorant people, to make them mean something else. I'm pretty sure when the term "furry" was first used it didn't encompas every aspect of the fandom. So you're left with people who still want to use that term fighting against the people who insist on using it for their terms. Of course it's silly to try and link furry percecution to percecution of Gays (A word that also meant something completely different a long time ago) but that doesn't mean there aren't parallels, they just aren't in the same league is all.

Also according to Wikipedia the term for someone who would want to fuck a bear would be a zoophile. Although this just brings me back to my previous point, which was at what point does the thought of intercourse with a non human species become unacceptable?

I don't think it's legal for them to make the game if it's non-commercial, The Silver Lining (unofficial King's Quest game) is totally non-commercial (and actually treats the IP with respect) and the creators have had recurring legal issues with Activision.

I bolded the main part there. It's Activision. These are the same people who charge $15 for map packs for shooters that other companies would do for free. They even tried to stop of Brutal Legend even though they dropped the IP and it was brought up by another company.

That didn't make what these people at Fur Affinity did any less wrong but not all companies are after your money like Activision, but that's another topic for another day.

a furry said to me that cos im gay I should understand the predusise against him I just loled.

And so you should have, I would laugh too and I've never experienced prejudice.

That's it really. Sorry this has gone really off topic but it's something I find both interesting and confusing. There are worse things on the internet than furries, but they get so much hate in general. I can understand the ones who keep going on about it and try possibly too hard to make it a way of life rather than what many see as a lifestyle choice, although even that could be debatable, but the hate that even simple artists who just like drawing anthropomorphic animals can get seems a little unfair.

[Hassat Hunter]

I'll believe Hassat when I see a furry in the white house. :D
That probably already happened. Multiple times.
I don't mean this in a mean way whatsoever, but I KNEW IT! No straight man would use that screen name.
You're pretty late, you know. He made it pretty clear over and over and over in the past.
On another note... anybody who is sexually attracted to anything out of there species (real or fake) is just a jacked in brain freak.
All those freaky LOTR Elf-lovers. Ugh. Or Twi'leks. Or... well, you know what I mean.
I mean these "furries" would have to think like that considering the sheer amount of cartoon animal porn out there & the fact that the game in question has a NSFW version.
It's the internet. Trust me, there is much worse to find here than pornographic pics of cartoon animals. Much much worse. And with real humans. I take "ruined childhood" over "goatse" anyday, thank you very much.
I do have a MAJOR problem with furries... I mean that shit is one step away from beastiality.
I do have a MAJOR problem with anime... I mean that shit is one step away from pedophilia. :rolleyes:
Of course, there are also those who take the furry stuff to a disgusting fetish level. They're the kind people usually hate.
I don't notice much of that throughout this thread.
Most people think there is no other.
I do notice a lot of this throughout this thread.
In the same way that most people think that video games are GTA and Pac-man?
And CoD now. Keep up with your time ;).
The only problem I have with furries is that they keep going on and on and on about it and how they think they're special because they're being persicuted and whatnot.
Didn't woman do that in the 70's? Or gays even to this days? Black africans, both in Africa and the US?
I know, apples and oranges, but it bears pointing out.
Most people just have the sense to keep it to themselves!
On the internet? Not really.
Of course furries can do it a bit more freely than pedo's or snuff-lovers... that's probably why you can find more of it.
I myself like seeing cartoon animals in hilarious human situations.
I think if you don't you really are wrong here on the Sam&Max games forums ;).
not all companies are after your money like Activision, but that's another topic for another day.
TTG ain't... fortunately.
There are worse things on the internet than furries, but they get so much hate in general.
+1. As can be plainly seen in this very thread.

[thesporkman]

As long as everybody's grasping for analogies and comparisons to other groups of people, I'd say furries are most similar to Steampunk enthusiasts (http://steampunkworkshop.com/) and men who like to wear kilts casually (http://www.kiltmen.com/).

[Giant Tope]

Didn't woman do that in the 70's? Or gays even to this days? Black africans, both in Africa and the US?
I know, apples and oranges, but it bears pointing out.

Actually it's far more like kids being bullied for wearing thick rimmed glasses and pocket protectors.

Like I said, I hate and do not condone bullying, but you ABSOLUTELY cannot compare being a furry to sex, race, or sexual orientation.

[Hassat Hunter]

Like I said, I hate and do not condone bullying, but you ABSOLUTELY cannot compare being a furry to sex, race, or sexual orientation.
Next, time, read please.
It was a reply to:
The only problem I have with furries is that they keep going on and on and on about it and how they think they're special because they're being persicuted and whatnot.
Congratiolations. So did the groups I mentioned.

[Jen Kollic]

As long as everybody's grasping for analogies and comparisons to other groups of people, I'd say furries are most similar to Steampunk enthusiasts (http://steampunkworkshop.com/) and men who like to wear kilts casually (http://www.kiltmen.com/).

This. Comparing furry 'persecution' to the battle for equal rights for those of different genders, races and sexualities is ridiculous. How many furries have gone on hunger strike, chained themselves to railings to protest their cause or been lynched?

[Giant Tope]

Congratiolations. So did the groups I mentioned.

Yeah. Because they were fighting for THEIR OWN RIGHTS as human beings that were refused to them due to persecution. Furries have always had every right to do what they wanted. Sure being bullied is annoying, and again I DO NOT CONDONE IT AND I THINK IT SHOULD STOP, but EVERYONE goes through bullying.

I cosplay. I get made fun of for it. I don't give a shit because I love what I do. I move on.

[Hassat Hunter]

Yeah. Because they were fighting for THEIR OWN RIGHTS as human beings that were refused to them due to persecution.
I don't recall woman being prosecuted much before the emancipation. They justed wanted to do more "manstuff".
Lol, and it seems turn it around about these days.

True on the other points though.

[Jen Kollic]

I don't recall woman being prosecuted much before the emancipation. They justed wanted to do more "manstuff".

Yes, because voting should only be for men, and women should be paid less because they're women. You do know the equal rights movement was about more than women being allowed to wear trousers, right?

[Giant Tope]

I don't recall woman being prosecuted much before the emancipation. They justed wanted to do more "manstuff".
Lol, and it seems turn it around about these days.

I don't think you realize that women were treated as property for the longest time.

[Hassat Hunter]

women should be paid less because they're women.
That still happens btw.

Forgot the voting part though... you're right there. But over here, I wouldn't even want to vote these days (actually, I don't), man or woman alike.

I don't think you realize that women were treated as property for the longest time.
Pretty sure they still are in various religions or countries around the globe.

[coolsome]

I don't think you realize that women were treated as property for the longest time.

some places still do!

[coolsome]

I don't recall woman being prosecuted much before the emancipation. They justed wanted to do more "manstuff".
Lol, and it seems turn it around about these days.

True on the other points though.

women have allways been procuted even to this day it might be more suitle but it still happens.

[Giant Tope]

And so you're proving my point...?

[Hassat Hunter]

Apparently.

I kind of lost what we were discussing about anyways around a few posts back.

[coolsome]

Apparently.

I kind of lost what we were discussing about anyways around a few posts back.

somthing about copyright issues wasnt it?

[Giant Tope]

You're free to reread posts? Its not like they disappear.

[Zonino]

Forgot the voting part though... you're right there. But over here, I wouldn't even want to vote these days (actually, I don't), man or woman alike.


Zonino Disapproves -10.

I bet you're one of those people who doesn't vote and then complains about the government that wins. You really forfeit all rights to complain if you don't take part.

[thesporkman]

In case anyone missed it, Shwoo already posted this quote from the people who were making the game:

As it turns out we are scrapping the sam and max angle in favor of something more palatable for us. Though Id think Lucas arts or whoever owns the rights to them would have much better things to do then sue some guys for a game, but then Id be surprised.

So there's really nothing relevant left to discuss. I think the furry/civil rights debate can be taken to PM, and the thread should be locked now.

But, erm, I'm not a mod, so that's really not my decision...

[Hassat Hunter]

You're free to reread posts? Its not like they disappear.
Sure, but that still doesn't mean we got carried off somewhere.
I bet you're one of those people who doesn't vote and then complains about the government that wins. You really forfeit all rights to complain if you don't take part.
Well, you probably don't know Dutch politics, but the guys have been spending the past 3 or so months making a coalition. So far all attempts failed. So it seems like we need to re-vote again very soon.
Normally they last 4 years, but I am pretty sure neither of the past 5 did.

Oh, and don't forget that none of the parties actually do what they promise during the campaign. Flopping around and making concessions a plenty.
Sure, that may be part of politics, but it pretty much means it doesn't matter what you vote for, it's all one big pale of sameness.

[roberttitus]

This is just getting embarrassing. I know you want to defend your freaky fetish & I'm a-ok with that, but as much as you claim we don't know what we are talking about when it comes to furries, you really seem to be using crappy examples to get your point across that make you seem to be the one who has no idea what they are talking about. Can you legally work & get paid the same wages as any other man? Are you allowed to vote? Are you allowed to eat in the same restaurants & use the same restrooms as non furries use? Are you allowed to leave your house in a pair of shorts with your face uncovered?
My guess is that the answer to each of these questions is yes. So how can you even begin to compare the "struggles" of being a furry to the STRUGGLES that blacks, gays & women have went through. All we are saying is that we think that the choice is a bit freaky.... we are most certainly not eliminating your rights as a person....

& yes... I know about that other fetish stuff too... & don't even think for a second that I don't think they are just as jacked up. It isn't about you as a person... it is about the creepiness of the fetish.

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, actually the ""Can you legally work & get paid the same wages as any other man?" is no, although that has different reasons than being a furry.

Also, gays could answer all questions with yes as well, even in countries that's looked down upon.

[JedExodus]

What in the name of christ am I reading??

Now let me weigh in. I'll keep it short because it's late

Furdom as far as I can tell is basically just a kink (unless you're just really into talking animals and crap and not the saucier side, which is also cool), like most 'out there' kinks it's probably best to keep it to yourself and those that you share it with, because quite clearly other people aren't going to get it.

Keep it on the DL and nobody'll give a frogs fat ass, rave on about it and people'll start to ask questions.

Now, if you'll excuse me. It's late and I have several shoe catalogues to browse before bed :p

Also, I haven't read the thread the whole way through, but if someone's saying their should be some kind of furry emancipation... well that's just wrong, take it from someone who was alive to see proper discrimination

[coolsome]

Well, actually the ""Can you legally work & get paid the same wages as any other man?" is no, although that has different reasons than being a furry.

Also, gays could answer all questions with yes as well, even in countries that's looked down upon.

I think its harder in Iran when there neck deep in sand with rocks herling at them.

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, I re-read the entire thread looking up were I could possibly have said the things now apparently claimed, that I compare furries with gays, woman or black people. Not unsurprisingly to myself, I haven't found a single place.

The only place I mentioned something that could even remotely be considered as such would be:
Didn't woman do that in the 70's? Or gays even to this days? Black africans, both in Africa and the US?
I know, apples and oranges, but it bears pointing out.
So, yeah, I was already saying they aren't comparrisons (apples and oranges, know the meaning?), was just wondering if Zonino was hating on them too for trying to spark a discussion how they were seen 'lower than the rest' (albeit on a different scale, but see above).
Well, sure, I could shut up, but hey, then all the people who think furry = animal rapist would get the upperhand and the name gets tarnished more and more.

The rest pretty much was going with the convo (which mostly as can be seen was agreeing with what has been stated).
Carry on, now...

[EvilMonkeyG1]

So this thread went waaaaay of topic. So yeah, making money like that is awful.

[der_ketzer]

So this thread went waaaaay of topic.

I am actually shocked to read crap like in this thread anywhere. But reading it here just disappoints me. Please get back on topic guys. This is not a furry-thread.

[Breakman]

Geez. Get your subcultures and sub-subcultures right, people! "Furries" is a fandom subculture. The "Jiff" sub-subculture that made all Furries look bad. It's like blaming the Anime Otaku subculture for whatever Moe Otakus do.

Anyways, if people have problems with Furries, I would think they would have a problem with the Sam & Max series where humans seem to have or want relationships with cockroaches, rabbits, dogs, sasquatches, and manatees.

As with the topic at hand, I see it as a major copyright issue. If Sam and Max weren't in the game, I don't think the game's creators would get as many sells for custom sprite sheets. The game is just a gimmick to stand out from the many other sprite makers. Heck, they don't even mention if you can keep the sprite sheet afterwards. $50 is a steep price just to appear as an enemy in a (creepy) two-bit game.

Something should be done, but I don't think going to court is in order though. A simple letter of Cease and Desist should suffice. Tell them to make their own characters to exploit. Plus, they looked at me funny and they make my skin crawl. I hate that.

[Sausy Gibbon]

If any ones wants to no it would be Ursusagalmatophilia if they are in to bears of the stuffed variety.

[Shwoo]

Posting this again:
As it turns out we are scrapping the sam and max angle in favor of something more palatable for us. Though Id think Lucas arts or whoever owns the rights to them would have much better things to do then sue some guys for a game, but then Id be surprised.

[Zonino]

Well, I re-read the entire thread looking up were I could possibly have said the things now apparently claimed, that I compare furries with gays, woman or black people. Not unsurprisingly to myself, I haven't found a single place.



Umm...

Oh,

And every christian is a pedophile.
Every islamitic person is a terrorist.
Gays are evil and sick.

To name just 3 similar stereotypes. Do you agree with all 3 too, now?

That's kinda a direct comparison of Furries with christians, islamists and gays. You see to know that fursecution isn't on the same level, you just aren't very eloquent about it.

So, yeah, I was already saying they aren't comparrisons (apples and oranges, know the meaning?), was just wondering if Zonino was hating on them too for trying to spark a discussion how they were seen 'lower than the rest' (albeit on a different scale, but see above).
Well, sure, I could shut up, but hey, then all the people who think furry = animal rapist would get the upperhand and the name gets tarnished more and more.



There is such a thing as quiet dignity. The opinions of small minded bigots are worthless. Still you are allowed to express your side of the situation which you can do as long as you stop drawing direct comparison with actual repressed groups.

Anyway I don't hate all furries. Personally I kinda the art, at least the good stuff. But I feel I should explain a bit more on what I mean about not liking the furries who keep going on about it.

You know the kind of people who take what they are, for example, Gay, Black etc, and then take it to some sort of extreme? Those people I find annoying. You know what I mean, the Gay people who act all fruity and prance about and everything about what they are has to be some massive act of showmansship because they crave attention. Yes, we get it, you're gay and you're happy, can you shut up and get on with it please? We don't need to be reminded every 5 minutes kthx.

[Hassat Hunter]

That's kinda a direct comparison of Furries with christians, islamists and gays. You see to know that fursecution isn't on the same level, you just aren't very eloquent about it.
I was just throwing about other well-known "stereotypes" which probably are not true in most cases. About the first that crossed my mind.
But I can see where the miscommunication came from if interpretated otherwise...
You know what I mean, the Gay people who act all fruity and prance about and everything about what they are has to be some massive act of showmansship because they crave attention.
Tell me about it. Either today or tomorrow the "Gay Parade" is here in the Netherlands, and it's just emberrassing to watch.
Way to undermine your efforts by acting like total retards... eh... :(

[coolsome]

Tell me about it. Either today or tomorrow the "Gay Parade" is here in the Netherlands, and it's just emberrassing to watch.
Way to undermine your efforts by acting like total retards... eh... :(

but the whole point of gay pride parade is be as out as you wana be and its fun as hell! and its a parade not a serious march for righs. Also striaght guys act the same at Mardi Gras.

[Major_Higgins]

I'm not gay, and I think the gay pride is a pretty fun event.
Let people have fun, dammit!

Oh, and this thread is absurd.

[bugsplee2.0]

We can only hope that the Commissioner will call the Freelance Police about this copyright case and bring swift justice to those furries....actually, that'd be a great episode idea.

"Furries From the Fourth Wall"

[der_ketzer]

Oh, and this thread is absurd.

This thread is ready to be closed for 5 pages already.

[Zonino]

I was just throwing about other well-known "stereotypes" which probably are not true in most cases. About the first that crossed my mind.
But I can see where the miscommunication came from if interpretated otherwise...[QUOTE]

And I can see where you're getting at there as well. I like the art side of things, and I'll even go so far as to say I've looked at the more... mature stuff, but I don't have any inclination to dress up in an animal suit and role play my "fursona". Saying that though I won't really call myself a furry, I prefer being ambiguous in everything :P

[QUOTE]Tell me about it. Either today or tomorrow the "Gay Parade" is here in the Netherlands, and it's just emberrassing to watch.
Way to undermine your efforts by acting like total retards... eh... :(

I don't begrudge anyone a bit of fun. Parades tend to be fun events as long as they aren't being done to rile people up. But there will be people at the parade who will act the same as they do there every day and I just have to ask why? Wouldn't they burn out after a while?

This thread is ready to be closed for 5 pages already.

No, moved to general at least but not locked, not yet...

Ahh who am I kidding we've probably reached the end of this discussion. It'll fade away and die soon enough.

[Giant Tope]

tell me about it. Either today or tomorrow the "gay parade" is here in the netherlands, and it's just emberrassing to watch.
Way to undermine your efforts by acting like total retards... Eh... :(

*facepalm*

People are just doing it to just be themselves. Saying they can't be themselves is ruining the entire point.

[BoneFreak]

I received a "fatal error" when clicking the link today...

:D


...and we're talking about gay people now? Godammit, sure they're, well, gay, but let them live their goddamn life! If they want to be gay, then sure why not, it's not your judgement to control someone's life.

[coolsome]

Im wana march in a gay pride parade now

[Hassat Hunter]

I am bi-sexual, so it's not like I have anything against gays, if anyone thinks so.

I just think the parade is... deterimental to the cause. I sure as hell feel "stop making it look like we're idiots"...

[coolsome]

I am bi-sexual, so it's not like I have anything against gays, if anyone thinks so.

I just think the parade is... deterimental to the cause. I sure as hell feel "stop making it look like we're idiots"...

just cos you think it looks stupid dont meen everyone sees it as that. and we shoudlnt have to live every aspect making sure we dont let the cause down to be accepted.

[Hassat Hunter]

The majority of people I know does.
And, I have no idea at all what your second sentance says...

[coolsome]

The majority of people I know does.
And, I have no idea at all what your second sentance says...

you saying the parade makes the people in it looking stupid and letting down the cause its a parade they shouldnt have to worry how its affecting the gay cause or what people think. Same with camp people cos there are straight men and women ect who act the same over the top showy for attention just cos there gays they shoudlnt be labled as rubbing it in peoples faces when its rly just a charecter trait.

[JedExodus]

just cos you think it looks stupid dont meen everyone sees it as that. and we shoudlnt have to live every aspect making sure we dont let the cause down to be accepted.

My brother's gay and he sees a lot of it as a bit undignified. I like to theorise that it's because gay culture's still in its infancy somewhat, but i'm just postulating.

they shoudlnt be labled as rubbing it in peoples faces when its rly just a charecter trait.

I reserve all rights to find it annoying though :p. It really annoys me when I meet someone (or know someone, as is the case for a few people) who treat their sexuality as the only facet of their personality, if the first thing they do is tell me that they're gay for no particular reason I usually give a polite "oh cool" whilst thinking "why was it so important for me to know that?"

...just an insight into the hetro mind I guess :p

[Shawni]

Can an admin lock this thread please? The discussion has gone way too far off topic and the issue seems to have been dealt with so this doesn't really need to go any further.

thanks

[Major_Higgins]

The discussion has gone way too far off topic and the issue seems to have been dealt with so this doesn't really need to go any further.

Yes it does!

I like to theorise that it's because gay culture's still in its infancy somewhat

You must be kidding. Gay culture officialy started with the Roman and the Greek!
Proof that this culture has matured is that it is nowadays widely accepted.
More or less, depending on the country, of course.
Iranian and Dutch gays sure don't get the same treatment...

But when a subculture has been accepted, and eventually absorbed by society,
it means it isn't in its infancy anymore. And it loses the "sub" in subculture.

[Sausy Gibbon]

Even as you mention, there was gay culture in Greece it was much more accepted than today, where then they didn't see sexual orientation as a social divider like most western cultures. Ancient Rome was more like today, where it can vary from strong condemnation to open acceptance.
I don't believe that acceptance has evolved from the Ancient Greeks, today gays are intimidated into secrecy and has only appeared to have devolved .

[Major_Higgins]

Well, gay union (not necessarily marriage) exists and is legally accepted in some western countries.
So I don't think it has devolved. At least not in western Europe.

Now concerning gay people dressed as animals, it's another story.
Especially if they dress up as Sam & Max! That's asking for hate!

[JedExodus]

Yes it does!
But when a subculture has been accepted, and eventually absorbed by society,
it means it isn't in its infancy anymore. And it loses the "sub" in subculture.

Well, this is Ireland like, not exactly the most historically liberal of places, so we've still got at least one generation to weed out before total acceptance. That means basically our most notable LGBT is a drag queen called "Titty Von Tramp" So at least on a local basis it's still a bit... rough round the edges I guess

Can an admin lock this thread please? The discussion has gone way too far off topic and the issue seems to have been dealt with so this doesn't really need to go any further.

thanks

Yeah, people like to ramble and go on big tangents round here, that's just the way of it, and I wouldn't have it any other way :)

[Giant Tope]

:( I promised i was gonna stop posting here. Curse my youthful persistence!

Saying that flamboyantly gay men or drag queens should stop acting so is pretty much like saying: Oh I don't have a problem with them at all. Except they can't be any different from me. I mean, at the pride parades, the individuals are dressed no less like showgirls in Vegas or women dressed for the Brazilian Carnival, and yet I never hear anyone complain about them looking or acting retarded. And its not like everyone at pride dress up like that either. They're just having a grand ol' time expressing who they are without judgement. And though these comments by themselves are bad, it only makes it worse that you were fighting for furries who most people feel the same about and asking that people stop judging them. Do you not see the hypocrisy in this? At all?

[JedExodus]

:( I promised i was gonna stop posting here. Curse my youthful persistence!

Saying that flamboyantly gay men or drag queens should stop acting so is pretty much like saying: Oh I don't have a problem with them at all. Except they can't be any different from me. I mean, at the pride parades, the individuals are dressed no less like showgirls in Vegas or women dressed for the Brazilian Carnival, and yet I never hear anyone complain about them looking or acting retarded. And its not like everyone at pride dress up like that either. They're just having a grand ol' time expressing who they are without judgement. And though these comments by themselves are bad, it only makes it worse that you were fighting for furries who most people feel the same about and asking that people stop judging them. Do you not see the hypocrisy in this? At all?

I'm gonna assume this was meant for me, if not no harm done anyways.

I never said anything about drag queens acting as such at all, if you wanna dress up as a woman, a squirrel or a vidya game character then do it. The particular example I gave is local but basically is the face of the Pride parade when it comes to media coverage because they like to hone on that particular example. I mentioned before that my brother was gay, and in this case when we talk about it his eyes roll on impulse. it's sorta similiar to the whole "hollywood gay" thing in a way I suppose.

As for furries i'm towing the line of "get on with it and don't roar about it from the rooftops" private stuff should be kept that way, it's just a kink in my horrible hipocritical eyes :p

[thesporkman]

Well, as long as we're all committed to further derailing the topic...

Even as you mention, there was gay culture in Greece it was much more accepted than today, where then they didn't see sexual orientation as a social divider like most western cultures. Ancient Rome was more like today, where it can vary from strong condemnation to open acceptance.
I don't believe that acceptance has evolved from the Ancient Greeks, today gays are intimidated into secrecy and has only appeared to have devolved.

The Ancient Greeks were as homophobic as the next horribly sexist ancient civilization; they just had a different set of cultural norms by which to define homosexuality. They would not have been accepting of, say, two men of the same age who wanted to have a sexual or romantic relationship together. What they were accepting of was a system of institutionalized pederasty, which is not something that our modern society is at all okay with. Basically, when a young teenage boy reached a certain age, he would be expected to enter into a pedagogical and sexual relationship with an adult man. It was basically a master-apprentice sort of relationship, but with, erm, benefits(?). This relationship would only last until the boy reached adulthood, at which point he could start pursuing a wife or a boy of his own. Now, of course, it was still way better probably to be a teenage boy than a girl or a woman, because boys had the right to say no and entered into what were considered consensual relationships, whereas women were essentially slaves a father could sell to a husband.

I guess my point is, erm, Ancient Greece wasn't exactly the beacon of enlightenment and reason in matters of sexual equality that you make it out to be.

[Giant Tope]

I'm gonna assume this was meant for me, if not no harm done anyways.

Nah, I wasn't meaning it to you.

[Hassat Hunter]

It was (quite obviously) pointed towards me.

You know why furries have a bad name, right? Because a minority acted all sexual and got the rest of the fandom that "fame". Well, from my POV it seems as gays are in the position that furries were before it got infamous, and these parades act in a way of making it get the infame furries get now.
Do we want that? I sure as hell ain't.

Does that make me hypocrite? And yeah, my response is about the same as JedExodus's brother.

Also, to the "OMG! Derail!" people, how long exactly have you been on the TTG forums? Kind of standard practice around here...

Now concerning gay people dressed as animals, it's another story.
Especially if they dress up as Sam & Max! That's asking for hate!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Sam_%26_Max_Comic-Con_07.jpg
I wouldn't mind that job ;). Along with a QA position of course :P.

[BoneFreak]

Also, to the "OMG! Derail!" people, how long exactly have you been on the TTG forums? Kind of standard practice around here...


Strange considering how you were frequently posting on this thread at the time when gay people were mentioned..

You know who's gay?

Ellen DeGeneres.
You know how popular she is? Exactly.

Case closed.

[Hassat Hunter]

^
Congratiolations. I have NO CLUE at all what this is about :confused:.

*is confused*

[BoneFreak]

^
Congratiolations. I have NO CLUE at all what this is about :confused:.

*is confused*

My bad.

This is Ellen:

http://www.palzoo.net/file/pic/user/EllenDeGeneres.jpg

[coolsome]

are we just listing popular gays now? cos I could google pics of Oscar Wilde, Elton John, John Barrowman, Sailor Neptune & Uranus ect

[Hassat Hunter]

I dunno. Still don't know what BoneFreak is on about... :confused:

[BoneFreak]

I dunno. Still don't know what BoneFreak is on about... :confused:

What I am "on about" is how you derailed this thread, and how you seem to hate gays.

[Hassat Hunter]

What I am "on about" is how you derailed this thread
Possibly. Okay...
and how you seem to hate gays.
I am partially one myself... :confused:

[coolsome]

so your a half self hater?

[BoneFreak]

I am partially one myself... :confused:

There is a such thing as being gay, as you love your own sex. However, bisexuality doesn't really exist. You are either one sex or the other, and if you love your own sex and the other, that is fake as you are only gay due to the fact that you don't want to love the other gender.

[coolsome]

There is a such thing as being gay, as you love your own sex. However, bisexuality doesn't really exist. You are either one sex or the other, and if you love your own sex and the other, that is fake as you are only gay due to the fact that you don't want to love the other gender.

Bisexualty does exsit! Iv known loads of Bisexuals and its not somthing you should dissmiss as fake (or just confused as Iv herd other people say about it)

[Giant Tope]

There is a such thing as being gay, as you love your own sex. However, bisexuality doesn't really exist. You are either one sex or the other, and if you love your own sex and the other, that is fake as you are only gay due to the fact that you don't want to love the other gender.

uh what

[coolsome]

uh what

aww your reply is way funnyer then my long winded one XD

[BoneFreak]

uh what

my words exactly

[coolsome]

my words exactly

ohh its a simple case of WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Icedhope]

So...any news about those guys, and stopping there copywrite infringing ways?

[coolsome]

So...any news about those guys, and stopping there copywrite infringing ways?

I thnk way back they said summit about how they stoped to avoid lawsuit

[Icedhope]

I thnk way back they said summit about how they stoped to avoid lawsuit

Awesome! Now then, back to the regulary scheduled programming whatever it was.

[Giant Tope]

my words exactly

Nice dodge...?

[roberttitus]

So now we are rambling about gays? Well f**k it... might as well join in on the fun.

See the funniest part about this is that Hassat Hunter is talking crap about flamboyant gays & there parades, yet a few pages back he was preaching about how furries are treated poorly & how we need to accept there lifestyle.

So let me get this straight... We should treat people equally & not judge them based simply on the fact that they are different from us.... well unless they show they are different. I mean god forbid that you SHOW that you are proud of who you are & don't feel the need to hide it... I mean they march in parades & act as they do to break down the walls & show though they are different in one sense, they really aren't all that different as human beings. I guess you could say they are just trying to get acceptance from the public.

Why does this sound familiar? Hmmmmm....

OH YEEEEAAAAHHH... You came out & defended furries because you are one.... not only that but you proudly admitted it & are doing everything but begging people to accept your FETISH.

Kinda funny how that works isn't?

[Avistew]

I wish I had seen this thread earlier. Curse my not going on sub-forums to avoid spoilers!

For what it's worth, here is my personal take on it:

The way I see it, being a furry isn't simply about enjoying media with anthropomorphic animals in it. Just like being a Tolkien Geek isn't just about having read the books and finding them good. I think there is more to it.
I think being a furry is about relating to anthropomorphic animals on a deeper level. Like, it talks to you, in the same way elves or Vulcans might. Often it involve having your own fursona, a non-human character, which I'd equate to other similar roleplaying (for instance LARP). Having a character of a different race can allow you to do things you wouldn't normally be able to, and often with furrism (is that a word?) it can involve full-bodied suits which would be liberating as you can fully devote yourself to your character and hide the human completely.

Furrism associated to sex? I don't see it. Not at all. Sure it's common on the Internet, but so is gay porn, or straight porn, or any type of porn, ever, and that doesn't mean every person on the planet is obsessed with sex. Furrism as bestiality? Oh really? If they liked animals, why would they like characters who look more like humans than animals? Most zoophiles would rather look at a picture of your pet than furry porn, it would be more arousing for them. I seriously wish people would understand that.
And for that matter, Marge Simpson or really any character from the Simpson, South Park or many other cartoons with "humans" look less human than most anthropomorphic animals do. Yet if someone says "Marge is hot, I'd do her if she was real", it's suddenly less creepy?
Humans can picture stuff. We have imagination. If Marge Simpson can be considered hot when she looks like she's got light bulbs for eyes and a toilet brush for hair, I don't see why adding differently shaped ears and saying "it's a (insert non-human animal here)" should suddenly make anyone go "eww".

As for the persecution/bullying/prejudice thing, I think it's sad how people are always having a "mine is worse than yours" fight. Maybe your group has it worse, but injustice is injustice and there is no reason to brush it off just because you feel it's not that bad.
Maybe it isn't, but you know what? You haven't experienced it. And even if you know for a fact they don't have it as bad, it's no reason to go all "who cares about your suffering, my group has suffered more". Especially when it's mostly in the past for some.
I mean, I'm a woman, have I personally suffered prejudice from it? Not that I can think of. Is it still bad in some places? Yes, but I'm not going to go "hey, furry, I'm part of a group that in some places is prejudiced against even though I've never experienced it personally and am likely never to. Therefore I can disregard the fact that people treat you like shit every day, and you know what, I'll even take part in it."

I'm really disappointed in some people here. I'm with you Hassat, and I want to apologise that some of us non-furries are so insensitive and close-minded. We're not all like that.

[Hassat Hunter]

Nice post Avistew.
So now we are rambling about gays? Well f**k it... might as well join in on the fun.
You haven't really read my last few posts, have you? We've gone over this.
See the funniest part about this is that Hassat Hunter is talking crap about flamboyant gays & there parades, yet a few pages back he was preaching about how furries are treated poorly & how we need to accept there lifestyle.
Are flamboyant gays & their parades really their lifestyle though? No, probably not. Same as our lifestyle isn't fucking each other all the time in furstuits.
Like said; I just think the way they parade about, and the media attention to that part gives being gay a negative image. And I personally would hate that.

[Avistew]

Nice post Avistew.

Thanks

I just think the way they parade about, and the media attention to that part gives being gay a negative image. And I personally would hate that.

I think I understand what you mean: that it's portraying all gays as being that way all the time when it's not true, and you're worried about it. However I think the way you phrase it is to blame for people's reactions: some people are flamboyant, and they're allowed to be. I feel your problem is more the lack of representation of non-flamboyant gays, which leads to generalisation.
I'd agree that generalisation can be a problem. Surely it leads to people going "you can't be gay! You're not flamboyant" or "gay people are just different, look at how they talk" or whatever. However it's important not to reject these people either. While it would be good for everyone to be represented in an accurate way, rejecting part of a group because they "make you look bad" isn't the way to go.
People who reject gays aren't likely to become fine with it because the flamboyant ones are sushed. And really, opening your mind to more people is better. It's not going to work against you, I don't think.

My point is, focus on the positive (for under-represented groups to be more represented) rather than the negative (for groups widely represented to be "hidden" more).

I will totally agree that the media uses that to show non-heterosexuality as that marginal, weird, quirky thing that's so different that "they're obviously not like us", and I know gay people who feel more pressured and prejudiced by that "gays are flamboyant" stereotype than by anything else (it's in France, mind you. Much less religion-based anti-gay stuff).
But my point is, the goal it to show that you're allowed to be non-straight and not be like that, rather than blame them for being that way.

[roberttitus]

@Avistew


So are you saying that feeling sexually drawn to children is OK? Are you saying that we should stop bullying adults in relationships with children by putting them in jail & labeling them sex offenders? I mean we haven't experienced what it is like to fall in love with a child, so how do we know the hardships that come with wanting something that is "unjustly" forbidden & looked down upon?

Does this sound ridiculous to you? I bet it does... as a matter of fact I bet you would be one of the first to proclaim that person was a sick f*** & want him locked up with the key thrown away.

Or another example.... assume you were with a trusted friend's house. You are on there computer & discover they have quite the fetish for beastiality & child porn. Deep down you know they are a good person, but I bet you anything that there fetishs would disgust you to the point you would never look at them the same.

[coolsome]

I think this thread will be locked soon

[roberttitus]

I think this thread will be locked soon

I'm pretty much done anyways... The point is that this isn't an attack on Hassat Hunter, but so much the logic that being discriminated against for a fetish (& thats the key word there) that should stay behind closed doors anyways is ridiculous. I'm sure everybody has a fetish they find utterly disgusting (be it child porn, beastiality, golden showers, Scat, etc...) & given the platform will talk negatively about it. Hence why all fetishs should stay BEHIND CLOSED DOORS

[Avistew]

My views are fairly straightforward: no victim = no crime.

Is being sexually attracted to children a crime? No. Is raping them a crime? Yes. Is looking at drawn porn of them a crime? No. Is looking a porn that involved actual children a crime? Yes.

If tomorrow I was suddenly sexually attracted to children, I would freak out as 99% of pedophiles do. You know, the ones who don't happen to also be rapists, yet are still put in the exact same category even if they never, in their entire life, harm a child in any way.

Now, when we're talking about people who decide to wear an outfit and have consensual sex, why the hell would I mind in any way? It doesn't mean I have to find it arousing or do it myself. Why would it be any of my business what they like to do? Why is it more socially accepted to consensual have sex with someone while pretending to be animals than, say, to cheat on your spouse?
Sure, cheating isn't glorified either, but people tend to be more comprehensive of it. It's more "normal". At least you're not a "freak", a "weirdo". Just someone who thinks it's okay to lie and betray someone you supposedly love.

Anyway, in short, being sexually aroused by something, anything, being sexually attracted to something, anything, is never a crime, no. Acting on it can be. Role-playing it, with the informed consent of everyone involved, certainly isn't, and if it's enough of a release to prevent you from actually doing it, then by all means, do so.

I feel we're losing track here though. The point is, being a furry isn't sexual in itself any more than playing D&D is sexual in itself. Hell, I'm sure there are asexual furries. And it's just ridiculous to associate things like that when they're simply not the same thing.

[Rather Dashing]

I'm with Avistew, especially in this case. People can't help sexual attraction. I'm attracted to women, but I don't go around molesting, raping, or taking advantage of women. The latter set of things is a crime, the former set of thoughts is simply some set of chemicals and mental wiring that I can't control. It's the same case with pedophiles, really. Am I disgusted by that particular desire? Yes, I am. But can I really say that they deserve to be maligned and persecuted if they aren't hurting or taking advantage of another person? Not really.

[BoneFreak]

Furrism associated to sex? I don't see it. Not at all. Sure it's common on the Internet, but so is gay porn, or straight porn, or any type of porn, ever, and that doesn't mean every person on the planet is obsessed with sex.

So are you saying that porn has nothing to do with sex? Porn brings on sexual intentions. And also a quick Google Image search for "furry" brings up porn on the first page.

[Rather Dashing]

So are you saying that porn has nothing to do with sex? Porn brings on sexual intentions. And also a quick Google Image search for "furry" brings up porn on the first page.
And a quick search for "Women", "Girls", or "Cheerleaders" brings up porn on the first page. So what? Are you saying that people who look at porn are all rapists? That's going to be a tough position to defend. Even with the most liberal estimated number of unreported rapes per year, I don't think it can keep up with the muli-billion dollar porn industry.

[BoneFreak]

And a quick search for "Women", "Girls", or "Cheerleaders" brings up porn on the first page. So what? Are you saying that people who look at porn are all rapists? That's going to be a tough position to defend. Even with the most liberal estimated number of unreported rapes per year, I don't think it can keep up with the muli-billion dollar porn industry.

My post didn't even have the word "rape" in it. Keep your arguments to the contents of my post.

I'm only saying that when you look at porn you can get a sexual urge, which therefore relates it to sex. Sure, Furries in general don't necessarily lead to porn, but it's just that the majority of it is, so we end up referring furries to porn half the time.

[Avistew]

Porn has everything to do with sex. And it has much to do with the Internet, because it flourishes there for sure. That doesn't mean the Internet is all about sex. I have had very intelligent discussions on the Internet, made excellent friends, met people I love. And while I very much enjoy sex, I have very little interest in porn, so porn on the Internet has pretty much no impact on my life.
Furry porn certainly is sexual: it's porn! But that doesn't mean being a furry is all about sex.

ONE image on the first page was pornographic, meaning that none of the others were. Still more nonsexual stuff than sexual stuff by a very large margin (1 in 23 on my results). And glancing through the next couple pages, they had even less sexual content.
Surely, there is furry porn, but if it was inherently sexual, it seems to me that the images on the first page would all be porn except for one, rather than the other way around.

There is furry porn, there is furry sex, I don't deny that. I'm simply rejecting the "furry = sex" equation. Unless you're also saying "human = sex", but that's untrue too.

I really wanted to state my position on the issue after reading through the thread. I feel that I have done so and explained my position in a clear manner. If anyone has more questions, they should feel absolutely free to PM me about them, but I feel I don't have more to contribute to this discussion, nor do I want to contribute in turning it into something nasty.

[Rather Dashing]

My post didn't even have the word "rape" in it. Keep your arguments to the contents of my post.

I'm only saying that when you look at porn you can get a sexual urge, which therefore relates it to sex.
Yes. Is that bad?

[BoneFreak]

Yes. Is that bad?

Did I say it was? Once again, way to go out of context.

[Rather Dashing]

Did I say it was? Once again, way to go out of context.
Alright. I was under the impression that "Porn brings on sexual intentions" amounted to "Porn brings on the intention to perform sexual actions that can be inappropriate". "Intention" as in "they mean to do something about it when they watch pornography". It was a matter of misunderstanding.

[Zonino]

I'm actually quite alarmed at how quickly this thread took a turn for the worse, probably because of most people's inablility to articulate their ideas properly, as well as understand others points of view. I myself am at least guilty of the first and probably the second as well.

That's why I'm glad that there's people like Avistew who are much more able to present clear, consice points of view, although I'm slightly annoyed that the first negative reply seemed to somehow draw the conclusion that they thought child molestation was ok.

Also Bonefreak, a quick search for anything on google can bring up porn if you aren't careful, and especially if safesearch is off, that doesn't neccessarily make that thing sexual in nature, just that there is things of a sexual nature based on it. I believe the internet refers to it as rule 34?

This conception that "Furries = porn" thing though, where does it stem from? It's true that there's furry porn, and indeed there is a lot of it, however wherever or not there more of it than other fetishes is debatable. It does get a lot of bad press however. Shows like CSI have not been kind to it but then it's rarly kind to anything that isn't awesome cop forensics powers.

Has it just become the standard now to hate on furries? Do people just see the hate that is spouted and decide to join in? I would very much like to know.

[Giant Tope]

As for the persecution/bullying/prejudice thing, I think it's sad how people are always having a "mine is worse than yours" fight. Maybe your group has it worse, but injustice is injustice and there is no reason to brush it off just because you feel it's not that bad.
Maybe it isn't, but you know what? You haven't experienced it. And even if you know for a fact they don't have it as bad, it's no reason to go all "who cares about your suffering, my group has suffered more". Especially when it's mostly in the past for some.

I'm assuming this is geared at me. But I'm just assuming. Durp

I have faced bullying all throughout my life for a variety of different reasons. I've hated it. I want to prevent it as much as I can, because I know that its ridiculous. I'm not a furry, but I think its stupid and frankly low of people to make fun of them or assume that they rape animals or whatever which is quite shallow and unlearned of an individual to say. I know some pretty cool furries as friends. Those who make fursuits, especially fursuits of excellent quality, are fountains of knowledge in the craft of costuming. On the flipside, I know furries that say that they're persecuted for what they love. Bullying may range from someone calling them a stupid name to a physical harm. I do not condone this at all, and I feel saddened by the fact that they are the current victim du jour on the internet right now. However, it crosses the line when someone says that the bullying of their hobbies and past times, which will forever be felt by anyone as long as there are two people on the earth, is special and is equivocal to those who have been treated like second class citizens with rights kept far from their reach and murder meeting them for just being born.

I have been demeaned and treated as second class due to my sex. I have managed to escape this path, but the fact will still remain that I will not be paid the same amount as an individual of the opposite sex. Nor if i chose to serve in the military would I be able to fill the same roles. Heck, for other reasons I can't even serve in the military honestly. I can't marry an individual I'm attracted to without moving at least 2000 miles away, and even then the federal law would not recognize it.

That said, I'm so lucky to have been born now, right now rather than 150 years ago, where my parents couldn't have gotten married, I wouldn't have been considered an American citizen, and even if I were I wouldn't be able to vote or work or treated like an equal in at the very least the eyes of the law.

And this is just for being born.

However, I cannot ever compare what I have gone through with the sufferings of those who had gone through that such as those who went through slavery or the holocaust. I just cannot do that. I can't even compare myself to women who are forced into arranged marriages. Because there is no comparison there. I morally cannot manipulate someone's hardship and demean it for my own benefit.

k now that i have that out of the way, im gonna go play my silly games about a cartoon rabbit and dog

[thesporkman]

Rule 34 of the Internet: If something exists, there is porn of it.

http://xkcd.com/305/

Apparently the way I cope with uncomfortable arguments is to post links to semi-relevant xkcd comics.

But, erm, I more or less agree with the ever insightful and well-spoken Avistew. People should be free to do whatever they want as long as they're not hurting anyone. And mocking and attacking other people for having unusual hobbies and fetishes or for being flamboyant or eccentric isn't very nice.

[coolsome]

can I jsut say when people said about pride festivles is embarsing and leting down the cause straight ppl do it to theres a whole subculture of straight guys livng the gays life style as metro sexuals and they act the same flamboint way but there not gay so the camp way of acting is a persnalaty tait rather then just a type of gay

Edit: why its a late reply is cos honistly it only just came to my mind about now Xp

[RingmasterJ5]

can I jsut say when people said about pride festivles is embarsing and leting down the cause straight ppl do it to theres a whole subculture of straight guys livng the gays life style as metro sexuals and they act the same flamboint way but there not gay so the camp way of acting is a persnalaty tait rather then just a type of gay

Edit: why its a late reply is cos honistly it only just came to my mind about now Xp

What on earth happened to your Spellcheck in the last 24 hours?

[coolsome]

What on earth happened to your Spellcheck in the last 24 hours?

I forgot to use it cos I was in a haste

[alexonfyre]

You are all acting like dumbasses. Some of you are being intolerant jackasses, and the others think it is okay to deal with that by being intolerant jackasses as well.
This is a forum about video games, leave your politics at the door.
I hope the mods close this thread.

[girlycard]

Wow, what kind of forum have I joined? I hate furries as much as the next person, but leave gay people out of this. This thread is showing the scum side of the Sam & Max group and should be closed and deleted.

You should feel terrible.

[kane]

stop whit this bashing of of human that are deficient than you I play video games to serapes that tort that human cat all get a long so one gay like guy
or like human animal things it well how they are if you don't like it then don't kept to you shelf and ps this is ironic because I hate wheel all of mankind sad ant it

[splash1]

stop whit this bashing of of human that are deficient than you I play video games to serapes that tort that human cat all get a long so one gay like guy
or like human animal things it well how they are if you don't like it then don't kept to you shelf and ps this is ironic because I hate wheel all of mankind sad ant it

What?

Anyway, I don't get how a piece of fanart (is it fanart? The link is broken.) can become "Copyright Infringement". Is there like a law where we're not allowed to post drawings of blasphemous hybrid animals on website now?

[Shwoo]

They were making a Sam & Max fangame, and charging people $50 to include their characters in it. But now they're making something else. Also the game was going to include gratuitous nudity, which wasn't well-received even on that site.

[Vainamoinen]

Porn has everything to do with sex. And it has much to do with the Internet, because it flourishes there for sure. That doesn't mean the Internet is all about sex.

Well...

I’m fairly sure if they took porn off the internet, there’d only be one website left, and it’d be called “Bring back the porn!”

[Shwoo]

I don't see how that's relevant, since it's obviously not true.

[Falanca]

Anything from Dr. Cox is relevant with life as we know, Shwoo.

[Giant Tope]

Wow, what kind of forum have I joined? I hate furries as much as the next person, but leave gay people out of this. This thread is showing the scum side of the Sam & Max group and should be closed and deleted.

You should feel terrible.

You are all acting like dumbasses. Some of you are being intolerant jackasses, and the others think it is okay to deal with that by being intolerant jackasses as well.
This is a forum about video games, leave your politics at the door.
I hope the mods close this thread.

wait wat

1) backseat modding yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
2) what's this about intolerance i'm hearing about? against who? from who? what?
3) hating furries is just plain childish.

[KuroShiro]

What the hell is going on here?

[Giant Tope]

people got offended which got people offended which got people offended

i think

[Chaosprower]

They've decided to scrap Sam and Max in favour of original characters:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2596/1281132071tderek99scree.jpg

(I've censored the screenshot).

So, no copyright infrigment, there should be no problem now, this isn't the appropiate place to discuss if you like furries or not.

[Falanca]

To give them credit, they draw pretty well.

[coolsome]

MY EYES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111@screenshot

[Zonino]

It's drawn pretty well actually. I wonder if the game will be any good though?

Back to the argument. Is anyone here actually preaching hate against gay people? I know I'm not. I said I dislike the stereotypical way some act, but that's more their mannerisms than their lifestyle. I could say the same about any stereotype, but maybe that's because they are usually played for laughs in media, so actually seeing it in real life, to me at least, can be a little annoying. Again that doesn't mean I hate them or all gay people. What's that phrase? When you assume you make an ass out of u and me?

Also:

Wow, what kind of forum have I joined? I hate furries as much as the next person, but leave gay people out of this. This thread is showing the scum side of the Sam & Max group and should be closed and deleted.

You should feel terrible.

Welcome to the forum. Believe me this is far from the norm but this is still a forum and discussion can and does happen, shockingly.

Also I noticed hypocasy in your post. It kinda begins when you typed the word hate and even more so when you used the word scum. Must feel good to judge people over the internet huh?

[KuroShiro]

people got offended which got people offended which got people offended

i think

Ah, I see. The dreaded triple-offensor.

I don't see why people are so down on furries, honestly. I doubt anyone would want everybody knowing what they fantasize about in the darker hours of the night... or the middle of the day for that matter.

[girlycard]

It's drawn pretty well actually. I wonder if the game will be any good though?

Back to the argument. Is anyone here actually preaching hate against gay people? I know I'm not. I said I dislike the stereotypical way some act, but that's more their mannerisms than their lifestyle. I could say the same about any stereotype, but maybe that's because they are usually played for laughs in media, so actually seeing it in real life, to me at least, can be a little annoying. Again that doesn't mean I hate them or all gay people. What's that phrase? When you assume you make an ass out of u and me?

Also:



Welcome to the forum. Believe me this is far from the norm but this is still a forum and discussion can and does happen, shockingly.

Also I noticed hypocasy in your post. It kinda begins when you typed the word hate and even more so when you used the word scum. Must feel good to judge people over the internet huh?



Hey, I just put on my judge glasses and there I go. This was originally a thread about a furry game featuring Sam & Max that people were trying to pull in a profit from. I don't really see why you had to go off on your rant about gay mannerisms; there was no call for it.

Anyway, this thread has done what it was supposed to do: get the game removed. This thread is now obsolete.

You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

[Falanca]

Yeah, let's just lock the thread and turn this discussion about our individual thoughts about people's sexual choices into a taboo. Thrilling.

Well, either that, or we'll just continue yelling "YOU SUCK" "NO YOU SUCK" at each other's face.

[BoneFreak]

Hey, I just put on my judge glasses and there I go. This was originally a thread about a furry game featuring Sam & Max that people were trying to pull in a profit from. I don't really see why you had to go off on your rant about gay mannerisms; there was no call for it.

Anyway, this thread has done what it was supposed to do: get the game removed. This thread is now obsolete.

You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

I was totally gone when we started talking about gay people, so I didn't start it.

When I talked about gay people, I said that people should stop hating them so much and live their godamn life.

Only thing I connected hate with was with furries.

[Hassat Hunter]

Heh, welcome to the TTG forums. You're going to have a miserable stay though if you expect threads to stay On-Topic.

[HelloCthulhu]

Yeah, let's just lock the thread and turn this discussion about our individual thoughts about people's sexual choices into a taboo. Thrilling.

Well, either that, or we'll just continue yelling "YOU SUCK" "NO YOU SUCK" at each other's face.

No you suck!

[Zonino]

Hey, I just put on my judge glasses and there I go. This was originally a thread about a furry game featuring Sam & Max that people were trying to pull in a profit from. I don't really see why you had to go off on your rant about gay mannerisms; there was no call for it.

Anyway, this thread has done what it was supposed to do: get the game removed. This thread is now obsolete.

You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

I think you'll find I can stay here if I want :P

Also rant about gay mannerisms? Good sir/madame you make it sound like I was foaming at the mouth when I typed my posts. And you keep missing the point that it's silly flamboyant mannerism that I DISLIKE. Not hate, but dislike. I have never once said I hated Gay people, why should I? As long as anyone doesn't do anything to me that I don't want them to they can do whatever they want within the lines of the law. But the really loud flamboyant ones, it's like watching a stereotype come to life, it's bizzare and interesting up to a point, then it just grates. Saying that though, of all the gay people that I know, I've never met any like that... huh, maybe it IS just the stereotype I hate?

Besides you and Bonefreak are pretty much proving my point about hypocrasy. You'll both brook no critasism of any kind any Gay people, but you're absolutly fine with lumping hate on furries. Seems that it's perfectly ok for you to hate a group of people unless that culture is one you belong to.

And anyway, you're both missing the point. This is a discussion... D I S C U S S I O N. People say what they think and you can express your god/maker given right to disagree, but you can't think to censor what others think.

[KuroShiro]

Besides you and Bonefreak are pretty much proving my point about hypocrasy. You'll both brook no critasism of any kind any Gay people, but you're absolutly fine with lumping hate on furries. Seems that it's perfectly ok for you to hate a group of people unless that culture is one you belong to.


I don't really care about what you're saying, but such egregious disregard of spell check grates on me.

Edit: I went and read through a bit of this thread, and want to correct one misconception: looking at drawn porn of children is a crime in the US. Not sure how the conversation got there but... yeah.

[Hassat Hunter]

Anyway, with the Dutch Gay Parade in the past I just read the newspaper (yeah, in the evening), and there was already a column and a send in letter agreeing with me.

[Giant Tope]

Just because someone agrees doesn't mean that it's universal.

I'll try to make that a more coherent sentence when I'm not so out of it.

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, just telling it's not just me and the people I know, like some people thought.

[Giant Tope]

Well I know more than one person thinks that. I've heard that so many times growing up even. "Man, I'd wouldn't have troubles with gay people if they would just quit being limp writsted sissies" or whatever. idk

its kinda like the whole thing where people go like: oh i dont think gays should be allowed to marry, and its ok, because i have a gay friend who agrees.

[girlycard]

I think you'll find I can stay here if I want :P

Also rant about gay mannerisms? Good sir/madame you make it sound like I was foaming at the mouth when I typed my posts. And you keep missing the point that it's silly flamboyant mannerism that I DISLIKE. Not hate, but dislike. I have never once said I hated Gay people, why should I? As long as anyone doesn't do anything to me that I don't want them to they can do whatever they want within the lines of the law. But the really loud flamboyant ones, it's like watching a stereotype come to life, it's bizzare and interesting up to a point, then it just grates. Saying that though, of all the gay people that I know, I've never met any like that... huh, maybe it IS just the stereotype I hate?

Besides you and Bonefreak are pretty much proving my point about hypocrasy. You'll both brook no critasism of any kind any Gay people, but you're absolutly fine with lumping hate on furries. Seems that it's perfectly ok for you to hate a group of people unless that culture is one you belong to.

And anyway, you're both missing the point. This is a discussion... D I S C U S S I O N. People say what they think and you can express your god/maker given right to disagree, but you can't think to censor what others think.

Calm down, bro. That's not what I was saying.

I think you're missing the point from my post entirely. Which was "why are you straying from the original topic? The game's gone now."

And I was saying everyone should leave this thread, not just you, sir.

Good day

[Zonino]

I don't really care about what you're saying, but such egregious disregard of spell check grates on me.



Sorry! It's not usually that bad, but I also used to have a dicitionary addon for firefox that would tell me when I messed up and I've not gotten around to installing it again.

Calm down, bro. That's not what I was saying.

I think you're missing the point from my post entirely. Which was "why are you straying from the original topic? The game's gone now."

And I was saying everyone should leave this thread, not just you, sir.

Good day

If we had to make a new topic every time a topic changed direction the forums would be flooded with useless crap, much like this topic has become. Still at least it's confined to this topic...

And yeah I can't see this lasting much longer, mostly because I'm bored of it now. But we need something to do to stem the gap before episode 5!

[JedExodus]

And yeah I can't see this lasting much longer, mostly because I'm bored of it now. But we need something to do to stem the gap before episode 5!

I think maybe the wait's making everybody tetchy



...wankers

:D

[BoneFreak]

Well, since this thread is already going way too off-topic, and no mod is going to close this soon, I unofficially declare this thread:

The Sam And Max Rant Thread!


(big letters make it more official)

That is all.

[LikaLaruku]

Well, I clicked the link & the it lead to a dead page, so I assume it's already been delt with.

[tabstis]

Well, since this thread is already going way too off-topic, and no mod is going to close this soon, I unofficially declare this thread:

The Sam And Max Rant Thread!


(big letters make it more official)

That is all.

We need some kind of argument thread. Whenever a thread starts to break down into an argument, the conversation automatically shifts to that thread...

[JedExodus]

We need some kind of argument thread. Whenever a thread starts to break down into an argument, the conversation automatically shifts to that thread...

If there were an argument thread I can assure it would be the most civil place you ever laid eyes upon, they're only good when they're cultivated naturally in the wild

[Sausy Gibbon]

OK I'll just finish the thread here:
"Hitler was a gay and a furry."

[Murray the Chao]

Just discovered that Telltale may have commited it's own copyright infringement with the initials of the Computer Obsolescence Prevention Society.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/203-cartoons-and-animation/56012728

[jweir]

Somehow I think they'd have a hard time taking Telltale to court considering they don't want their fan's money and never released the second half of the series on DVD.

[Raye]

Eeeeeh...

Someone who likes anthromorphic animals (basically animals that act like humans, walking on 2, and wearing clothes etc.) style. Basically if you like many Disneyfilms you already fit the description.

They are anthromorphic animals. So; yeah?



>.< I realize this reply is coming late, but I just found this thread, and I just HAD to respond to this. Okay, liking Robin Hood does NOT make one a 'furry'. I love many Disney films, but the difference between my interest and a furries interest is that my first interest is in THE STORY which *happens* to contain anthropomorphic animals, (which were included likely because they thought it would appeal to kids, and because they are expressive, not to appeal to furries) the fact that they are animals is waaaaaaaaay down on my list. A self identified 'furry' is primarily interested in the animals, then the story. Also note that in most of these movies, Robin Hood in particular, (which, really, is the only one to feature truly furry style animals, unless you count some aspects of Fantasia, all their other animals tend to remain on all fours, even the ones that talk) the fact that they are animals is incidental to the plot. Regarding movies like Lion King, Bother Bear and Bambi, the use of animals as characters is to aid the audience in looking at the themes from a new perspective. Story is paramount, and there is an actual *plot* reason for each instance of an animal in their feature films (well, aside from some of the sidekick characters). As for their shorts featuring Mickey etc. (and the same can be extended to Warner Brothers stable of characters, though Disney's characters are older) that is primarily because when Mickey first appeared, animation was in it's very early stages, and broad shapes were needed that translated well into black and white. While human characters did exist at he time, mostly from Fleischer Studios (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleischer_Studios), many of them were rather creepy. It was much easier to make animals appealing, and the characters were extremely simple to draw (Mickey can be drawn by tracing a quarter and 2 dimes, then sticking a face on it). Also, they're more expressive, you can push them further, use their ears and tails to aid in expression. But again, it was not to appeal to furry fans. In the furry webcomics I've seen, usually the fact that they are animals is quite important to the plot and/or how characters behave, the plot is built around including furry characters, but not in the same way that the Disney movies do. Disney started with a plot and animals became a part of it as the story demanded. furry stories start with animal characters, just 'cus, then focus on the animal aspect heavily. They also quite often include other people's fursonas. It's not anthro animals evolving as the plot demands. You'll also see a preponderance of 'cool' animals like wolves and tigers, not so much, say, a giant cockroach.

there is a web comic called Lackadaisy Cats (http://lackadaisy.foxprints.com/), I would recommend to anyone. As you'd expect, the characters are all cats. Though the artist has said in the FAQ that the inclusion of cats as the main characters is similar to the reasoning I outline above for why Disney is not furry. I quote: "Q. Why cats?
A. When dealing in sociopathic criminalism and gratuitous violence, how could it not be cats? Don't take it too literally, though. It's mostly just a device I like to use for characterization. The mobile ears, tails, and big eyes help me emphasize gesture and expression more than I could with human characters, they allow me to be as ridiculous as I like, and, well, they're just plain fun to draw."

and:
"Q. Are you a furry?
A. Uh. I'm not entirely sure what that means. I draw furries (if you can't think of a less schmaltzy name for them), but I'm actually a not-very-furry upright primate. I suspect you are too, unless you're a cat walking on the keyboard. Get off the keyboard!"

Basically - Disney = animals for story, expressive characters and/or appealing to kids. Furry = animals for fanservice to other furries. While furries may find Disney films appealing for the animals, that does not make them 'furry' movies, nor does it make other fans of the movies furries.

As for Sam and Max being furry characters, I'd argue based on the above that the difference lies in intent of the artist. You'd have to ask Purcell about that, but I doubt he'd agree that they are furry characters.

BTW, I don't necessarily have anything against furry comics or whatever, but for me the story is paramount, so it must have a good one under the furry characters. Also, this is from someone who once planned to do a comic strip featuring anthro birds and other animals, (I might still do it someday, dunno. was a decent idea) who would definitely not call herself a 'furry'. I've also attracted a furry following for my latest project, because it has centaurs. bleh. (I was as surprised as anyone that there is a 'centaur scene' among the furry community, who knew? But that's not the reason I included them, and it annoys me that I have had to clarify this to people. I have noticed a distinct difference in the types of questions asked from members of this 'community' and people who are interested for other reasons. The 'taur fans ALWAYS ask when the next 'taur will show up. will there be other types of 'taurs (like with a cat body or something), will you turn X (human) character INTO a centaur? and of course, the one they all seem to want 'will you include MY character?' they also like to nitpick how a 'real' centaur would look or dress, what they'd eat, how tall they'd be, what types of ears they'd have, and so on. (mine are human-height, have human ears, are fully clothed, and eat human type food. I can't change it or the backstory would make no sense, not to mention be inconsistent with previous art. some take great offence to this) fiddly details. They seem to care very little about where the plot goes, as long as it's got some guy with the body of a horse. If I wrote them out, these 'fans' would be gone in a heartbeat. Considering I spent a great deal of time planning the plot and characters, it's a bit disheartening to see all that work utterly disregarded. Yes, I do realize these are the bad apples, but... Other people ask about the character's motivations, or history of the world, will X end up with Y romantically, etc.) On another project I worked on, it featured many different gods and goddesses. Including Bast and Anubis, the Egyptian gods with the head of a cat and a jackal, respectively. (the main characters were Loki, Thor, and Jesus) at ComicCon, we were approached by the posterboy of furries, the tiger guy with all the tattoos, plastic surgery and piercings to make himself look like a tiger. I even have a picture of me with him: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/jillbamfette/tiger-guy2.jpg (I'm in the blue shirt) ALL he wanted to know about was Bast. She was a minor character, but that's all he cared about, try explaining the plot to him, he just didn't care, he just wanted to know how much Bast appeared. It was.... strange. Though yes, he's a rather extreme example. But I think it does illustrate that he was looking for something totally different in what he read/watched than a non-furry.

ok, done ranting. sorry, hot button with me. I have had to explain that I'm not a furry on a number of occasions

[Hassat Hunter]

A self identified 'furry' is primarily interested in the animals, then the story.
Eeeeeeh? I like Disneymovies a lot too, for the same reasons as you summon. Why else?
Also note that in most of these movies, Robin Hood in particular the fact that they are animals is incidental to the plot. Regarding movies like Lion King, Bother Bear and Bambi, the use of animals as characters is to aid the audience in looking at the themes from a new perspective.
Eh, especially with Brother Bear your "incidental to the plot" falls kind of apart. How does 'Man turns into bear, gets hunted by brother since hatred of bears' NOT revolve around... bears? TLK too, animators spend months studying lions and tried to portray them as animallike as possible in the movie.
Many modern movies like Brother Bear, Bolt, Lilo&Stitch or Ratatouille do not have 'animals incidental to the plot' but rather integrated and a vital part of the plot. You seem to keep hanging on the really old Disney movies (pre-1990). Of coures all mentioned movies combine animals with humans instead of having an all-animal cast (like TLK and Robin Hood).
In the furry webcomics I've seen, usually the fact that they are animals is quite important to the plot and/or how characters behave
You must be reading different ones than me. In ones I know, like VGCats or Housepets, in 95% of the cases you could just simply replace them with humans, and it would still work flawlessly. Actually, I don't think I have read a single webcomic which acts the way you say...
Disney started with a plot and animals became a part of it as the story demanded.
Lion King claims otherwise. Aside from other titles mentioned earlier.
You'll also see a preponderance of 'cool' animals like wolves and tigers, not so much, say, a giant cockroach.
Yeah, but that's pretty much everywhere the case. Even Sam&Max.
I was as surprised as anyone that there is a 'centaur scene' among the furry community, who knew?
Oh, I agree with you there. What the hell do centaurs have to do with us? :confused:

[Raye]

Eeeeeeh? I like Disneymovies a lot too, for the same reasons as you summon. Why else?

I never said you didn't like plot, I said the importance of the fact that there are animals is different to furry and non-furry viewers. I guarantee you, when I watch one of those movies, the importance of the characters being animals is WAY less important to me than it is to you.



Eh, especially with Brother Bear your "incidental to the plot" falls kind of apart. How does 'Man turns into bear, gets hunted by brother since hatred of bears' NOT revolve around... bears? TLK too, animators spend months studying lions and tried to portray them as animallike as possible in the movie.
Many modern movies like Brother Bear, Bolt, Lilo&Stitch or Ratatouille do not have 'animals incidental to the plot' but rather integrated and a vital part of the plot. You seem to keep hanging on the really old Disney movies (pre-1990). Of coures all mentioned movies combine animals with humans instead of having an all-animal cast (like TLK and Robin Hood).

wow. I'm speechless. So if i told you to go read Maus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus), would you think it was 'about mice'? what about 'Animal Farm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm)'? The symbolism, allegory, social commentary, the whole message, just flew right over your head, huh? guess I shouldn't be surprised by that. Brother Bear was not 'about bears' it was about learning to see the world through another's eyes, abandoning prejudices, and taking responsibility. It was kinda like 'Black Like Me (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Like_Me)' (kinda, Black Like me lacked the taking responsibility for your actions thing) Using bears as an allegory for another race or group of people, (Unspecified, in this case. Which is actually precisely WHY storytellers use this method of talking about discrimination so often; it ensures the viewer's own prejudices do not cloud their judgment of the story.) in order to make the message easier to grasp. This is kinda like what fantasy or sci-fi does, except they use elves vs. dwarves or Klingons vs Vulcans instead of animals. but both approaches have the same intent. see: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FantasticRacism for more examples.

I never said animals were incidental to the plot. I said the the fact that they WERE animals was incidental to the plot, and I was mostly talking about Robin Hood (only because Robin Hood's character designs were the most 'furry like' of any Disney movie). There's a difference. The Lion King is Hamlet. I assure you, it works perfectly well with no lions. Robin Hood, well, that one's obvious. As I said above, Brother Bear's core story could have worked with something else taking the place of bears, it could have been elves, it could have been another race of humans. But the last one would have been too 'controversial' and 'heavy' for a Disney film, using bears let them get the *message* across while maintaining a lighter and less controversial tone.

*edit - I just remembered, District 9 was sort of the same plot as Brother Bear... (definitely more serious, but basically the same) but with aliens... as a commentary on Apartheid. so yeah. works with no bears. Had the same message, but much more overt. I think Brother Bear was more effective, because of the subtlety and the character development was vastly superior, but.... I hope you're in the minority in not getting it, because I'd hate to think most people were missing the message if it's not spoon fed to them.

And I have seen all of Disney's movies. I don't buy that any of them are 'furry' Robin Hood is as close as it gets, and I explained why that wasn't. I am not about to go through point by point though. (Lilo and Stitch, seriously? that's an ALIEN)


You must be reading different ones than me. In ones I know, like VGCats or Housepets, in 95% of the cases you could just simply replace them with humans, and it would still work flawlessly. Actually, I don't think I have read a single webcomic which acts the way you say...

I have never read Housepets, but VGCats is not a 'furry' comic. it's a gamer comic. So yeah, thanks for proving my point? that the presence of animals does not necessarily equal "furry" was my whole point.


Lion King claims otherwise. Aside from other titles mentioned earlier.

As I said above, it's Hamlet. http://www.lionking.org/text/Hamlet-TM.html The fact that the animators did some research (as any good artist would do) after deciding to use lions is irrelevant to the fact that the story would have stood with humans in the place of the lions. The presence of lions gave it a wider appeal, and allowed them to do some pretty African scenery, but still.

Yeah, but that's pretty much everywhere the case. Even Sam&Max.

And Sal....? why do you think I mentioned cockroaches?

Oh, I agree with you there. What the hell do centaurs have to do with us? :confused:

they're half-human half-animal. While it took my by surprise initially, in retrospect, it makes sense.

[tabstis]

This is why I love these forums.

[HelloCthulhu]

As I said above, it's Hamlet. http://www.lionking.org/text/Hamlet-TM.html The fact that the animators did some research (as any good artist would do) after deciding to use lions is irrelevant to the fact that the story would have stood with humans in the place of the lions. The presence of lions gave it a wider appeal, and allowed them to do some pretty African scenery, but still.

Actually, The Lion King is derived from Kimba the White Lion, which was an anime in the 1960s... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058817/ http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm

[Hassat Hunter]

I guarantee you, when I watch one of those movies, the importance of the characters being animals is WAY less important to me than it is to you.
If you say so...
wow. I'm speechless. So if i told you to go read Maus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus), would you think it was 'about mice'? what about 'Animal Farm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm)'?
Heh, I know what both these books are about. And I have read neither :D. They do kind of spoonfed you this in school (well, here at least).
The symbolism, allegory, social commentary, the whole message, just flew right over your head, huh?
When talking about Brother Bear, probably. I tend to view animated movies for my entertainment, not to ponder the "hidden meaning". So I guess they did fail to catch me there...
This is kinda like what fantasy or sci-fi does, except they use elves vs. dwarves or Klingons vs Vulcans instead of animals.
Heh, I think movies like Blade Runner or series like Stargate SG-1 do a better job than those movies.
LOTR doesn't really have some kind of deeper meaning, at least I didn't find any. Then again, the first book is so darn boring I might slept through it.
The Lion King is Hamlet.
Didn't *everyone* die in Hamlet? I don't recall that happening in TLK.
VGCats is not a 'furry' comic. it's a gamer comic. So yeah, thanks for proving my point? that the presence of animals does not necessarily equal "furry" was my whole point.
That fits my definition of furry. And as I mentioned, yeah, they could replace the cats with humans. They just... don't. For reasons you also specified (expressions etc.). If VGCats doesn't fit your "furry" definition may I ask exactly what your definition would be?
And Sal....? why do you think I mentioned cockroaches?
It took many comics, a TV-series, a videogame and 3 seasons of episodes before they used the major cockroach even here, where cockroaches are common.
Why do you think I replied with "Even Sam&Max." I was well aware it was 'bout Sal...
they're half-human half-animal. While it took my by surprise initially, in retrospect, it makes sense.
I still think it doesn't quite fit though, but that's just me...

[Raye]

I already did explain. Furry media would be created specifically for furry audiences, usually by people who are furries themselves. That's it in a nutshell, it all comes down to author/artist intent. Otherwise the definition is WAY too broad and catches people and media that would never in a million years want to be associated with furries. It would be like saying anyone who had read an L. Ron Hubbard book was a Scientologist. "Furry" is a term that should be applied to a person willingly, It's the person saying they identify with anthro animals in, um, a 'special' way. It is not fair to label people furries if they don't want to be labeled that way. That includes artists/writers. Your definition includes everything from Animal Farm to Bugs Bunny, it's absurdly broad. Furries may like some media that contains animals for a variety of non-furry related reasons, but that doesn't make it 'furry'

and geez, just because i didn't specify your favourite specific examples doesn't invalidate the point I was trying to make. That using animals is often allegory.

[Hassat Hunter]

Furry media would be created specifically for furry audiences, usually by people who are furries themselves.
By that definition... I wouldn't be a furry. Hell, most wouldn't.

[Dandi8]

...Why is this thread still alive?

[HelloCthulhu]

I refer to the case of south park vs WoW:
How do you kill that which has no life?

[roberttitus]

...Why is this thread still alive?

Because you touch yourself at night

[Dandi8]

I refer to the case of south park vs WoW:
I... I... rest my case.


Because you touch yourself at night
Goddammit I knew that would eventually lead to no good...

[Raye]

By that definition... I wouldn't be a furry. Hell, most wouldn't.

I was talking about furry MEDIA. Art and literature. Not furries. You want to call yourself a furry, go nuts, no complaints. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the art/fiction, only your reaction to it. It's when your definition applies that label to others that don't want it that I have problems. Your definition applied the 'furry' label to artists and fans of movies that most likely are not furry.

[KeyMaster]

So, I took the time to read through a fair chunk of this thread, and I must say bravo at a masterful derailment. All we're missing is the inevitable manifestation of Godwin's Law. I hereby place a warning sticker on this thread. Pat yourselves on the back, you've earned it :D

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt217/KeyMaster45/Misc/flamewar-1.jpg

[LikaLaruku]

::Sigh:: The subject was dealt with by page 2 & most of the responces are off topic anyway. If this was the Homestar Runner Wiki, this topic would have been locked long ago.

[roberttitus]

So, I took the time to read through a fair chunk of this thread, and I must say bravo at a masterful derailment. All we're missing is the inevitable manifestation of Godwin's Law. I hereby place a warning sticker on this thread. Pat yourselves on the back, you've earned it :D

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt217/KeyMaster45/Misc/flamewar-1.jpg

Godwin's law you seek, Fallout MMO thread you will find.

[mjc0961]

So, I took the time to read through a fair chunk of this thread, and I must say bravo at a masterful derailment. All we're missing is the inevitable manifestation of Godwin's Law.Nope we have that:
OK I'll just finish the thread here:
"Hitler was a gay and a furry."

Anyway:
Just discovered that Telltale may have commited it's own copyright infringement with the initials of the Computer Obsolescence Prevention Society.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/203-cartoons-and-animation/56012728It's an acronym... Can anyone really copyright letters? Just from reading that thread, the premise of the cartoon and the C.O.P.S. from the games seems more than different enough for it to not be a problem. But, I must admit I don't really know much about the law on these matters.

[Will]

This thread is pretty horrible through and through. Really guys, you know better.