Is there anyone here fans of animation?

[Darkblader]

I thought I would bring up the conversation of animation on here. Everyone likes animated films, well not everyone. So are there anyone on here that happen to like animation? I am a fan of some animation, mostly the wacky golden age animation.

[Giant Tope]

yes.

[Rather Dashing]

That really depends on the question you're asking, and really the question you've presented is only slightly less broad than "Are you a fan of films?"

I love animation, or that is to say, I enjoy GOOD animation. I am fanatical about some to a degree other people never get to. I enjoy the early output and the history of the Walt Disney company, I know that Ub Iwerks essentially created Mickey Mouse and completely animated his first short on his own in a matter of days. I love the technology of classic animation and its advancement, including things like the MultiPlane Camera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d4-AUwkKAw). I own a lot of 20s and 30s animation in particular in my collection, including the early applications of stop-motion animation by the likes of Ladislas Starevich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladislas_Starevich)(if you have Netflix, some of his shorts are under the Instant Queue under the title The Cameraman's Revenge and & Other Tales (http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/The-Cameraman-s-Revenge-Other-Fantastic-Tales/60002674?trkid=1211018)). The Walt Disney Treasures series, ESPECIALLY my Oswald the Lucky Rabbit (http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/The-Cameraman-s-Revenge-Other-Fantastic-Tales/60002674?trkid=1211018) set(the character is better known to many as "that other guy in Epic Mickey" -_-;;) are indispensable, well, treasures. More recently, but not TOO recently, Japanese animation was really good, as well. Kamui no Ken (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2vGP5vgFJg) is probably one of the best-animated films I've ever seen, and the distinct cultural flair of Japanese animation and the sheer narrative quality that comes from shows that are actually aimed at adults(such things do exist, and no I am not referring to One Piece, Death Note, or Naruto) is simply fantastic. I'm of course horrendously inadequate when it comes to knowledge of animation though, especially outside of those two countries. Outside of American and Japanese animation, I only really extensively know about Soviet propaganda animation, so there's definitely a lot left for me to watch and study before I can say I really know anything about the medium.

On the other hand, if you're asking if I enjoy modern animated shows or films, Pixar, or any era's Saturday Morning flair? Hell no, with the odd exception(Batman: The Animated Series, Gargoyles with a couple caveats, etc) that proves the rule.

[PecanBlue]

The first class I ever had when I first went to art school was History of Animation. The first movie we saw there? Fritz the Cat.

What a wonderful way to initiate the poor, defenseless students who were expecting some Disney stuff immediately!

[Jennifer]

I adore animation. I love the process of it, I love watching it, and I love making it. I like everything from the original black and white silent short animated films (my first animation (http://www.jennifermcmurray.com/cupcake.html) was a tribute to those cartoons), the traditional hand-drawn films, computer animated 3D graphics films and computer animated 2D films, and stop-motion animation.

I'm a huge fan of Disney, Pixar, Aardman Animations, Don Bluth, Chuck Jones, and Max Fleischer. I enjoy television animation too. I love the DC Animated Universe (Batman: The Animated Series to Justice League Unlimited), Futurama, The Simpsons, The Critic, Clerks: The Animated Series.

As a matter of fact, thinking about it, at least half of my DVD collection is animation, and even more so if you count computer-generated imagery in films as animation (which I do personally, but it's a highly debated subject).

[DoctorCello]

yes. (http://www.youtube.com/user/frankenollies)

EDIT: I suppose I should expand further. Yes, I like animation. I am studying it, in fact. In terms of how pretentious are my tastes, I'm pretentious enough to have seen a bunch of non-American nor Japanese animated films and pretentious enough to dislike most of Family Guy and Shrek, but I'm not pretentious enough to hate all anime, and I'm not pretentious enough to like Ralph Bakshi or Ren & Stimpy Adult's Party Cartoon. I like most everything, really, or at least I'm willing to give most everything a chance!

EDIT2: Except for Total Drama Island and any of the spin-offs. Those suck hard.

[Jen Kollic]

I like every animation that was ever made.

Okay, maybe that's going a bit too far, but it was a pretty general question. I like a lot of animation, it's hard to narrow it down. Most of it is Western, I'm kinda 'meh' on most modern anime, but I love the Lupin III series and Studio Ghibli.

[Giant Tope]

The first class I ever had when I first went to art school was History of Animation. The first movie we saw there? Fritz the Cat.

What a wonderful way to initiate the poor, defenseless students who were expecting some Disney stuff immediately!

haha oh wow

[PecanBlue]

Yep, and the second movie: Felidae. Then we went on to the less traumatizing movies, though Watership Down was thrown somewhere in there.

I would later find out that professor loved to torment the students who were fans of Disney and/or anime coming into the school expecting to work somewhere in those fields, though, so it's all good!

[Jen Kollic]

Yep, and the second movie: Felidae.

That is the most awesome professor ever. I love that movie, it's one of the few instances where I like the movie almost as much as I like the book. And it makes Watership Down look tame.

[PecanBlue]

Haha, yeah I enjoyed it too, but though it tops Watership Down with its adult themes, I think I liked Watership Down more. (Who can resist that ending and Bright Eyes?)

I remember when he put on Felidae one kid was freaking out: "Oh no it's THIS movie! Have fun not sleeping tonight, guys!" Then I kept watching it and I'm all "well, I'm not sure what demographic this movie was aiming for but it's not so ba-"

*SCENE WITH LIVE CAT PUPPETS*

"Welp!"

Then it was all downhill from there.

[DoctorCello]

I'm of course horrendously inadequate when it comes to knowledge of animation though, especially outside of those two countries. Outside of American and Japanese animation, I only really extensively know about Soviet propaganda animation, so there's definitely a lot left for me to watch and study before I can say I really know anything about the medium..

Have you watched any French animated films, like Persepolis or The Triplets of Belleville? They're pretty fantastic.

[Jen Kollic]

*SCENE WITH LIVE CAT PUPPETS*

"Welp!"

Then it was all downhill from there.

Believe it or not, the book is worse!

I'd agree that Watership Down is better though, and not least because of 'Bright Eyes'. Have you seen Plague Dogs? They actually managed to make the animated version bleaker than the book in that case...

ETA: Speaking of bleak animation, has anyone else seen Ringing Bell?

[SillyStell]

Ah Felidae, I found that on youtube and it's dark and weird story combined with good animation with a unique style fasanated me, not sure if I'd say it was a great movie but I'll give it credit for being different than most talking animal movies :D

Anyway, yes I love animation. It's something I'd like to be apart of for a career. I have done some very small animations on Image Ready but nothing on a large scale mainly because I give up waaaaaaay to easy due to lacking confidence. I'm hope someday though I'll pluck up enough confidence to do an animated short.

[PecanBlue]

Have you seen Plague Dogs? They actually managed to make the animated version bleaker than the book in that case...

Yeah I was all ":(" at the ending. I read the book before it too, so it really did feel more depressing!

[Jen Kollic]

Yeah I was all ":(" at the ending. I read the book before it too, so it really did feel more depressing!

It was kind of the opposite of The Little Mermaid for me, because at the end of that I was like "wait, she gets the prince after all and doesn't die?" Though I guess that was never going to happen in a Disney movie. (and it's probably still more accurate than Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame)

[PecanBlue]

Well, they did make The Little Matchgirl short pretty accurate, much to my (bawling) surprise.

[Jen Kollic]

Well, they did make The Little Matchgirl short pretty accurate, much to my (bawling) surprise.

True. I guess they can be accurate sometimes!

[gilau]

Im a fan of clasic animation, indeed scinse i was a kid i just want to give my life to it, yes, that crazy im for animation, i wish to someday study clasic animation, im espesialy fan of the comercial animation of 90,s period to 2002, for me that was the time for animation, naw most of the cartoons suck, i blame the censure and the crazy parents, who taked all the fantasy and joucks away¬¬.That left the pour kids with stiupid shows of real peopple with preadolecent with less identity to be a problem or a challenge for the censure, but glamur and selling, as zoei, and hanna montanna, naked brother band and all that shit... >:( that IS spoilling the kid brains. Anyway i think ther are some good animated shows on this days, like 3 haha, but ther are good enough to keep me motivated.:) Ha and i like some of the 30,s animation to,as the koko clown. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDATXtewPrg

[Leplaya]

I am like, no love animation. I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-us3GA3_yE) have (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCACzWOnRIU) discussed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAd7YmAaK2Q) on youtube.


And I happen to enjoy some certain aspects of it. I mostly enjoy animation from the golden age of animation. Disney is a hit and miss although the short films from the golden age are enjoyable and even the Oswald shorts(I was even aware of Oswald before Epic Mickey). Oddly enough before Epic mickey i enjoyed Donald Duck more than Mickey mouse lol. Some american animation today just makes me sick. Although that reason is because CG animation has reached my point of annoyance. Although the only CG stuff I was able to sit through is Pixar and possibly the upcoming Goon movie{Which looks interesting for once for a CG film} Hey Pecan, what were the reactions of the people who saw Fritz the cat for the first time? I'd like to hear what happened XD.

Speaking of Fritz. I happen to enjoy the works of Ralph (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Xxuxi-pkA) Bakshi. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGYYbadA5Ao&feature=related) Although Bakshi to me is a hero even though I dont even like fritz at all, but the only thing I was able to enjoy from Bakshi was Wizards, Coonskin, and that mighty mouse cartoon that he did with John k. Cool (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cl_DyI1oZE) World (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i02blqt39c) I remember seeing in the movie theater with my older brother and a few of his friends{He and his buddies were mistaking about this as a sequel to Roger Rabbit}, and all I can say about that movie is that it had a few good things about it. The animation had nice colors, voice acting, and (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QkaUpgAiPE) do (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0txIF6_Wz0) I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAs29exNg5I) need (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEUZDKcPfwE) to explain why the soundtrack has some cool music for a not so good animated film? The only reason why Cool world{In my own view} is even good to look at is because it beats the daylights out of the horrible live-action/CG hybrids that have been happening alot.

And as for dislikes for animation. I happen to dislike ANYTHING from the creator of Family guy. TDI, and basically anything on TV animation today is just horrible to look at. Except for Sym-bionic titan{from the maker of Samurai Jack :cool:}.

[PecanBlue]

Hey Pecan, what were the reactions of the people who saw Fritz the cat for the first time? I'd like to hear what happened XD.

It was mostly just groans during the movie and some people going "what the hell?" at some parts and similar commentaries, but other than that, nothing out of the ordinary.

Speaking of messed up cat animations you should all check out the short, Cat Piano (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj4RBmU-PIo). It's a wonderful example of digital 2D animation done right.

[Giant Tope]

I think people need to give 3D more of a chance. Because (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxHNztg0X3s) it's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8u4hJo5stM) not (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85pWSm103Xo) like (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJ4wKyxexw) 2D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuTQR6xSbNM) is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_aaBpSHDNM) instantly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqLdZwkajvY) redeemable (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLMzPo6r5AQ) either (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGC36_6_wwM&feature=related). Just (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvWzh9NFFZc) sayin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERKyNU1ECcU).

[Leplaya]

The cat's piano is probably the most impressive short film I have seen. Uggh, the horrids of the titanic animated film and quest for camelot. I should have mentioned that I happen to dislike anybody who even tries to copy the Disney style for animated films. Oh and if there any milton knight fans on here He's trying to raise money for something he's working on which he needs your help on (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1856770979/caprice-teen-of-tomorrow-wondrous-drawn-animation).

[PecanBlue]

I see your Party Time and raise you... This... Thing... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIhE7e5-YOI)

[Leplaya]

Doesnt even Disney know that there have been knock-offs of this? Hell. Do I even need to bring up...THIS? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2c1ptxw3uU)

[PecanBlue]

I don't know but these always make me laugh to death. I hate and love that they exist at the same time.

[Giant Tope]

I see your Party Time and raise you... This... Thing... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIhE7e5-YOI)

B-but I was talking about 2D films D:


I should have mentioned that I happen to dislike anybody who even tries to copy the Disney style for animated films.

Isn't it bad enough that an entire film studio should have a single "style"?

[PecanBlue]

B-but I was talking about 2D films D:

Oh alright then how about this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRreM7M1aZA)

(I had this movie as a kid and even then the animation mortified me, this is how I know about it)

[Giant Tope]

oh wow the 70s

[Leplaya]

Bill Melendez of all people directed that adaption of lion and the witch and the wardrobe. Of all people :rolleyes:

[PecanBlue]

I would say it works for Peanuts where everyone is very simplified, not so much for this which comes off looking uncanny valley.

[Leplaya]

2D animation and 3D animation can be well and good if they are handled and worked on properly by the right crew. If messed with or rushed, it always comes out godawful. Now for some good CG animation How's this for CG? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OtRe1Uqlpk) and its even from a video game for godsakes!

Isn't it bad enough that an entire film studio should have a single "style"? I'm not much of an artist or even a cartoonist but I'm studying and practicing drawing to become one. And all I can say is that if you copy something thats already been done, your not getting yourself anywhere. I mean look at the 90's, that had a ton of studios trying to minic Disney's style and hell ironically some of them were former workers for Disney. Like Don Bluth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibamGFXUT9A). I know his style is far different from Disney's but hell he should have given up films after Land before time in my own view. Although the only thing good I remember hearing about was Anastasia. hell even Ralph bakshi even clearly stated this about don bluth "I wouldn't leave Disney to do Disney".

[Alcoremortis]

And it makes Watership Down look tame.

There's a Watership Down animated movie? How could I have possibly missed that? I've only read the book about a squillion times!

[Secret Fawful]

2D animation and 3D animation can be well and good if they are handled and worked on properly by the right crew. If messed with or rushed, it always comes out godawful. Now for some good CG animation How's this for CG? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OtRe1Uqlpk) and its even from a video game for godsakes!

I'm not much of an artist or even a cartoonist but I'm studying and practicing drawing to become one. And all I can say is that if you copy something thats already been done, your not getting yourself anywhere. I mean look at the 90's, that had a ton of studios trying to minic Disney's style and hell ironically some of them were former workers for Disney. Like Don Bluth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibamGFXUT9A). I know his style is far different from Disney's but hell he should have given up films after Land before time in my own view. Although the only thing good I remember hearing about was Anastasia. hell even Ralph bakshi even clearly stated this about don bluth "I wouldn't leave Disney to do Disney".

Because Disney is the only studio allowed to do stories about magic in animation. Right. An American Tail is a masterpiece, and so is The Secret of NIMH, IMO. So good are they that they excuse any bad thing he did since. And as much as people bash it, Titan A.E. wasn't THAT bad. Neither was Anastasia. And Anastasia was the only movie Bluth ever made that was remotely comparable to Disney.

[PecanBlue]

And Anastasia was the only movie Bluth ever made that was remotely comparable to Disney.

Thumbelina was the king of Disney imitation, though.

[Rather Dashing]

Have you watched any French animated films, like Persepolis or The Triplets of Belleville? They're pretty fantastic.
French animation is an area that I know I'm sorely lacking in, and I know I can't be a properly pretentious animation buff if I don't have a much more rounded base of knowledge in regards to French animation. I have seen Persepolis though and loved it.

On an unrelated note, Little Match Girl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUSzQBaWq0Q). Why? I dunno. I like it, I guess. If you haven't seen it, just watch it, guys. 6 minutes and 41 seconds of your life and you'll be better for the experience.

[Alcoremortis]

I just watched Watership Down. I thought it was an excellent movie and fairly true to the book, too, although I didn't like the fact that they randomly killed off Blackavar. He was totally my favorite character--I even named my own rabbit after him.

[Secret Fawful]

French animation is an area that I know I'm sorely lacking in, and I know I can't be a properly pretentious animation buff if I don't have a much more rounded base of knowledge in regards to French animation. I have seen Persepolis though and loved it.

On an unrelated note, Little Match Girl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUSzQBaWq0Q). Why? I dunno. I like it, I guess. If you haven't seen it, just watch it, guys. 6 minutes and 41 seconds of your life and you'll be better for the experience.

I've seen that. It's a rich bit of animation, so why couldn't Disney have done so well with the Princess and the Frog? It was okay, but it wasn't as good as it could have been. The Little Match Girl is better and it's only seven minutes long.

Speaking of which, since you keep recommending it, I'm watching Kamui no Ken (as I type this actually). So far the animation is visually appealing, with fantastic lighting that isn't too harsh or headache-inducing. It does seem to be a good movie, but I can't comment fully until I finish it. Sometimes it seems choppy, but man the action style is great! I haven't seen anything else like this movie.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't seen Thumbelina or any or any of the later Bluth movies like Rock-A-Doodle. Ralph Bakshi is one to talk about unoriginality though, seeing as he is mostly famous for adapting The Lord of the Rings to animation. Not that he did a bad job. I need to watch more Bakshi movies sometime as I've only been introduced to him recently.

And speaking of European animation, if you want something funny, check out Cat City 1. If you want something out of the ordinary, scarring, and really messed up, check out Felidae. Be warned, it's not for the faint of heart. I haven't even watched it; I've just read descriptions of scenes because I'm a wuss, but it's basically a who-dunnit about cats wrapped in a splatter film. I'll probably watch it tonight too to see what the fuss is about.

[Rather Dashing]

I've seen that. It's a rich bit of animation, so why couldn't Disney have done so well with the Princess and the Frog? It was okay, but it wasn't as good as it could have been. The Little Match Girl is better and it's only seven minutes long.
The length is a strength in the Little Match Girl's favor, I think. No time to cram in comedy sidekicks or filler, and the budget must have been MUCH smaller, allowing for a far greater risk in terms of content. Perhaps I'm cynical or pretentious in this regard, but I think smaller budgets, smaller teams, and smaller need for return tends to produce something far greater than what you really can expect to get out of a larger project, despite the greater resources at hand.

Speaking of which, since you keep recommending it, I'm watching Kamui no Ken (as I type this actually).
I am honored that you not only noticed the other recommendations and remembered them, but that you're following through with it. It really is one of my favorite animated films, and I'm really glad that anyone decided to watch it on my recommendation.

So far the animation is visually appealing, with fantastic lighting that isn't too harsh or headache-inducing. It does seem to be a good movie, but I can't comment fully until I finish it. Sometimes it seems choppy, but man the action style is great! I haven't seen anything else like this movie.
There is a lot "like" this movie, in a lot of ways, but this is probably the best executed of them(obviously a subjective opinion there, though, especially since other films do some things better and some things worse and it's up to you to really decide what is more important, I imagine). Maybe I should make a list of animation from the era that is really worth watching sometime, because there is a LOT in this timeframe that is simply underrated or(more often) a completely unknown quantity in the US anime market that has fixated itself on really shallow kids' stuff and nerd-appeasing fodder in things like the harem genre. You know, not to be pretentious, though I totally am.

I haven't seen Thumbelina or any or any of the later Bluth movies like Rock-A-Doodle. Ralph Bakshi is one to talk about unoriginality though, seeing as he is mostly famous for adapting The Lord of the Rings to animation. Not that he did a bad job. I need to watch more Bakshi movies sometime as I've only been introduced to him recently.
I personally would skip Rock-A-Doodle and Thumbelina. If I had a time machine, damn, I'd go back and tell myself not to watch them. Personally, I don't like any of his output past All Dogs Go To Heaven. Anastasia is kind of okay, and I haven't seen Titan A.E., but yeah. The animation itself in his films remains beautiful, but man do the films begin to really, really stink.

And speaking of European animation, if you want something funny, check out Cat City 1 and 2. If you want something out of the ordinary, scarring, and really messed up, check out Felidae. Be warned, it's not for the faint of heart. I haven't even watched it; I've just read descriptions of scenes because I'm a wuss, but it's basically a who-dunnit about cats wrapped in a splatter film. I'll probably watch it tonight too to see what the fuss is about.
I'll add these to my back-catalog of titles I still need to see. Not sure how long it'll be before I do, but they're near the top and on my mind.

[ShaggE]

I like animation in general, but the only type I'm truly a "fan" of is claymation\stop motion.

There's something about it that fascinates me. Especially the bizarre stop-motion shorts floating around. Crooked Rot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYjny4qNy24) and The Alphabet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqNt5PPrpSc) are huge inspirations for me. (warning: the aforementioned shorts are highly disturbing)

[DoctorCello]

An American Tail is a masterpiece

I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this, but... I can't stand An American Tail. Normally I'm pretty tolerant of little kid characters being little kids, but man, Fievel reeeeally gets on my nerves. And the animation in Anastasia really bugs me. It's all too stiff to me, and I just recently found out why: a lot of it was rotoscoped. :| Not cool, mang. Not cool. And yeah, Thumbelina's pretty terrible. Watched it a million times when I was a kid, though.

The Secret of NIMH is still awesome, though!

[Secret Fawful]

I am honored that you not only noticed the other recommendations and remembered them, but that you're following through with it. It really is one of my favorite animated films, and I'm really glad that anyone decided to watch it on my recommendation.

There is a lot "like" this movie, in a lot of ways, but this is probably the best executed of them(obviously a subjective opinion there, though, especially since other films do some things better and some things worse and it's up to you to really decide what is more important, I imagine). Maybe I should make a list of animation from the era that is really worth watching sometime, because there is a LOT in this timeframe that is simply underrated or(more often) a completely unknown quantity in the US anime market that has fixated itself on really shallow kids' stuff and nerd-appeasing fodder in things like the harem genre. You know, not to be pretentious, though I totally am.
He admits he's pretentious. I'm bookmarking this post. No, but I just finished the movie, and DAAAAAMN. I enjoyed it. This movie does so much right on so many levels and in so many areas. I was very surprised. One of the biggest surprises was the music. It was very fitting and it sounded great in the scenes, especially the fighting scenes. The animation was gorgeous; you could tell thought had been put into it. This was by no means a soulless production and story like some anime I could name (coughFMAseries2Brotherhoodcough). I can not get over the great use of lighting effects, which was probably my favorite thing about this entire film. The ninja stars looked like laser bolts, but it was cool. And this is also probably the best instance of speedlines I've seen; normally they drag a scene down for me in anime but here they were again, visually pleasing. There was so much lightplay at work it was sometimes hard to follow though; I wouldn't show this film to an epileptic. I need to go back and rewatch it again tomorrow to pick up on finer details. And Jiro will forever go down in my book as the ultimate example to prove that this asshole (http://gaygamer.net/images/naruto.jpg) is not a real FRICKING NINJA! When Jiro finds his mother and the boy in the background starts crying, I was laughing. Not because it was stupid, but because I haven't seen such a great usage of small touches like that in an animated movie in forever! Again, Princess and the Frog, where the HELL did your budget go? Probably the end credits song. (Okay the Facilier song wasn't bad but other than that, gah!) I haven't seen such a consistently unique animated movie. I'm trying so hard not to exaggerate here but I feel like I'm gushing. I mean we have ninjas....traveling to America...and fighting cowboys! What more can I say about this movie? I fully recommend it. It is fully of twists and surprises. Everyone go out and see it now.


I personally would skip Rock-A-Doodle and Thumbelina. If I had a time machine, damn, I'd go back and tell myself not to watch them. Personally, I don't like any of his output past All Dogs Go To Heaven. Anastasia is kind of okay, and I haven't seen Titan A.E., but yeah. The animation itself in his films remains beautiful, but man do the films begin to really, really stink. I liked All Dogs for the insincere, sleazy main characters. It was unique to see such low mains. I also liked that Dom Deluise had a bit of a different type of role. Instead of that dumb guy, he was that gripey, selfish guy. However, the orphan was ripped off from the Rescuers. As a Don Bluth fan even I will admit that. I think she even had the same voice actress.


I'll add these to my back-catalog of titles I still need to see. Not sure how long it'll be before I do, but they're near the top and on my mind. Wait, what the hell? Why did I add Cat City 2 in that list? Cat City 2 sucks ass, don't watch it. Cat City 1 is all right though.

So I just got done watching Felidae. Um...holy fricking cat shit. This quote from the main character says it all.

"What I saw before me wasn't exactly a scene from the Aristocats."

I've never seen such a disturbing movie in my entire life. Ever. EVER. And I've seen a lot. You could imagine from the content of my jokes that I'm not easily shocked, but this movie did it every five seconds. I can now say I have seen it all. I haven't seen Human Centipede or Teeth, but I'd be willing to bet those movies are like Bambi compared to Felidae. When the title screen shows claws slice a red background behind the title, with a cat SCREAMING in the background, you know what you're in for.

It's basically, as I said, a whodunnit starring a cat, who is investigating serial murders of cats in his neighborhood. This main character is awesome; his brain is toe to toe with Sherlock Holmes (the original) and he puts most college professors to shame. He could probably catch Light Yagami before L, as convoluted as that kid's intelligence is. I will say this. This is a great murder mystery. It's atmospheric up the wazoo, with interesting characters, lots of clues, very Hitchcockian scenes, and a huge sense of menace and danger. Some of the camera work, I swear, is extremely well done, and there is some really dramatic camera work as well that feels mildly ahead of its time. The color palette was fantastic as well; very vibrant yet realistic. The action scenes actually feel dangerous; like the characters could be seriously horribly injured at any second. And there are so many twists and turns in this movie you never have time to breath; in fact I would say a big complaint of mine with this movie is that the pacing is a bit too fast.

Now for the motherload. This movie is gross. Incredibly gross. Holy shit is it gross. Decapitations. Disembowelments. Ritual suicides. Electrocution. Disturbing nightmares. Animal testing. Brains. Guts. Gore. What the hell? Did it need to be this disgusting? Why is it this disgusting? I guess this is based on a book so maybe they wanted to make a straight adaption but DAMN. It's as sick as a green moldy bloody piss. Yet it all gives the impression that the killer is a madman; a sick disturbed freak who has to be stopped at any cost. The reveal of the culprit is surprising and dramatic; I didn't see it coming at all. In fact I didn't see a lot of what happens in this movie coming. Except for the scene where two cats have sex. I wish I was joking. I wish I could erase that image from my head. I wish I could have been murdered by a cat before I saw that awful tasteless disgusting smutty scene. What were they thinking? The movie was an interesting, if not grotesque, horror murder mystery up til then. This movie is somewhat tasteless. It tells a great story and it has good atmosphere, but it gets really pointlessly vulgar. I will admit, some of the talk about sex does tie into the plot and is needed. But not the damn sex scene. Damn it what can erase that from my head. Just....damn...couldn't they have cut away before they finished. Damn. Maybe I'm complaining too much about a natural act, you say, but no there was nothing natural about this. Cats don't scream when they orgasm, do they? Why the hell would anyone need to see this extra scene? Who would be into that? I need a drink.

So yeah, Felidae. Watch it if you want a great murder mystery with some fantastic animation, but be warned. There is some screwed up stuff in this film. If you get sick easily, or offended easily, do not watch this movie. Ever. But if you think you can handle it, go for it. It actually is worth watching, outside of that damn sex scene. Some people have said "it's not sex its mating". It's nasty cat sex. Moving on.



I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this, but... I can't stand An American Tail. Normally I'm pretty tolerant of little kid characters being little kids, but man, Fievel reeeeally gets on my nerves. And the animation in Anastasia really bugs me. It's all too stiff to me, and I just recently found out why: a lot of it was rotoscoped. :| Not cool, mang. Not cool. And yeah, Thumbelina's pretty terrible. Watched it a million times when I was a kid, though.

The Secret of NIMH is still awesome, though!

Fievel is an annoying chaarcter. In the beginning. And because of a twisted trick he pulls, he suffers some serious consequences, and grows to be better for it. That's why I like him and consider him a great character. Although in AAT 2 they completely reverse it, just so they can do it all over again. I still like AAT 2 but did they really have to do that? Sigh. I don't know.

[Jennifer]

And as for dislikes for animation. I happen to dislike ANYTHING from the creator of Family guy. TDI, and basically anything on TV animation today is just horrible to look at. Except for Sym-bionic titan{from the maker of Samurai Jack :cool:}.
I like some of the jokes in Family Guy, but it doesn't work as an animated sitcom because the plot is secondary to the jokes. It would work better as a 15-minute sketch show like Robot Chicken, both because they wouldn't need a plot at all, and also because they wouldn't need to pad for time.

The mention of Family Guy brings up one point I dislike about many animated projects: they often go for cartoony sounding voices, and it comes off sounding forced and difficult to listen to. Chris Griffin from Family Guy fits this description (the character could have worked well enough with Seth Green's normal voice), as does Ron from Kim Possible (which is a shame since I loved Will Friedle's voice work in Batman Beyond), Kuki from The Kids Next Door (again a shame, since I love Lauren Tom's voice work in Futurama and King of the Hill), and countless others.

[Jen Kollic]

Now for the motherload. This movie is gross. Incredibly gross. Holy shit is it gross. Decapitations. Disembowelments. Ritual suicides. Electrocution. Disturbing nightmares. Animal testing. Brains. Guts. Gore. What the hell? Did it need to be this disgusting? Why is it this disgusting? I guess this is based on a book so maybe they wanted to make a straight adaption but DAMN. It's as sick as a green moldy bloody piss.

And as I said earlier in the thread, the book is actually worse! The movie skips one of Francis' nightmares, and a lot of the stuff involving Preterius. (which is a diary in the book) It's actually one of my favourite books, because the author (Akif Pirincci) has clearly studied cat behaviour before writing it, (unlike Erin Hunter) in much the same way as Richard Adams used Locksley's 'The Private Life of the Rabbit' for reference when writing Watership Down, the author of Felidae uses Desmond Morris' 'Catwatching'. Watership Down shows that bunnies aren't just cute and fluffy, Felidae does the same for cats.

Maybe I'm complaining too much about a natural act, you say, but no there was nothing natural about this. Cats don't scream when they orgasm, do they?

Yes, they do. It's actually a pretty accurate depiction as well. Tomcats will always seize the female by the scruff when mating to stop the female from attacking them, (big cats like lions and tigers do the same) and the females hiss and spit and scream. There is a reason for this, but it's pretty gross, so let's just say 'it's normal for cats'. And if you're wondering why I know such a disturbing amount about cat sex, it's because I've got a copy of 'Catwatching' as well. It's an awesome book if you own a cat because it explains all sorts of things like why cats eat grass, why they spend so much time grooming and where the phrases 'not enough room to swing a cat' originates from.

Anyway, the book is awesome, and I do recommend it, if you can find it. It's actually the first book in a series, but only the first two have been translated into English, and the second one isn't as good as the first. (no idea about the rest since I can't read German) I prefer the book to the movie, but I ALWAYS prefer the book to the movie so no surprise there, but this is one of the few cases where I actually like the movie adaptation because it's pretty faithful. (unlike Secret of Nimh, which I would have liked a lot more if I hadn't read the book beforehand)

It might just be me, but I like An American Tail 2 much more than the original. I just like the villain better, probably because he's John Cleese.

[tana]

CG fan, love the stuff Pixar and Dreamworks does. Love the old Warner Bros. stuff. Just give me a fast frame rate!

[Alcoremortis]

So yeah, Felidae. Watch it if you want a great murder mystery with some fantastic animation, but be warned. There is some screwed up stuff in this film. If you get sick easily, or offended easily, do not watch this movie. Ever. But if you think you can handle it, go for it. It actually is worth watching, outside of that damn sex scene. Some people have said "it's not sex its mating". It's nasty cat sex. Moving on.

Is it weird that this just makes me want to watch this movie? Even though I'm a total wuss when it comes to scary stuff (...couldn't even watch the creepy pasta video without turning the sound off...)?

Maybe I'll wait until I don't have to sleep for a few days...

[PecanBlue]

Aw man, it's no fun if you're told about the cat sex. The best part is to watch people's reactions when it gets there.

[Jen Kollic]

Aw man, it's no fun if you're told about the cat sex. The best part is to watch people's reactions when it gets there.

Is it bad that I really, really want to make a Mameshiba (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkI35qh9s8w&feature=related) version of this? "Did you know? Lady cats scream during sex" Though I guess that Mameshiba is disturbing enough to begin with...

[Secret Fawful]

Yes, they do. It's actually a pretty accurate depiction as well. Tomcats will always seize the female by the scruff when mating to stop the female from attacking them, (big cats like lions and tigers do the same) and the females hiss and spit and scream. There is a reason for this, but it's pretty gross, so let's just say 'it's normal for cats'. And if you're wondering why I know such a disturbing amount about cat sex, it's because I've got a copy of 'Catwatching' as well. It's an awesome book if you own a cat because it explains all sorts of things like why cats eat grass, why they spend so much time grooming and where the phrases 'not enough room to swing a cat' originates from.

Anyway, the book is awesome, and I do recommend it, if you can find it. It's actually the first book in a series, but only the first two have been translated into English, and the second one isn't as good as the first. (no idea about the rest since I can't read German) I prefer the book to the movie, but I ALWAYS prefer the book to the movie so no surprise there, but this is one of the few cases where I actually like the movie adaptation because it's pretty faithful. (unlike Secret of Nimh, which I would have liked a lot more if I hadn't read the book beforehand)
As soon as I read that it's a book, I wanted to read it. Frankly, the story is AWESOME. The villain is AWESOME. The hero is AWESOME. And if the cat sex is naturally portrayed, then I really can't complain. I mean you do see this sort of thing every day. I'm just honestly ignorant on the subject of cat mating....not that that is surprising. And yes, my face was hilarious when it came to that; should have had a camera ready. I'll probably pick the book up if I see it.

It might just be me, but I like An American Tail 2 much more than the original. I just like the villain better, probably because he's John Cleese.
The two movies tie for me as my favorite movies of all time. I don't like how they reused Fievel's character development; I only realized they did this last night and it's seriously made me rethink the film, but there is so much to like about the second American Tail. Fievel becomes a hero. Jimmy Stewart; especially the speech he gives at the end, which gives me chills. The action is fun; the soundtrack is FANTASTIC. And yes, John Cleese is a ton of fun as Cat R. Waul. I also love that Tanya floors the villain with her singing; that's fun to watch. In fact Tanya was a much more fun character in this film; and Tiger was hilarious. I still missed Tony, even if he got a cameo. That wasn't nearly enough for me. In fact that's the best way to describe this movie: fun.

Fun fact: The voice actress for Tony played Miranda the reporter in Full Throttle.

[Jen Kollic]

As soon as I read that it's a book, I wanted to read it. Frankly, the story is AWESOME. The villain is AWESOME. The hero is AWESOME. And if the cat sex is naturally portrayed, then I really can't complain. I mean you do see this sort of thing every day. I'm just honestly ignorant on the subject of cat mating....not that that is surprising. And yes, my face was hilarious when it came to that; should have had a camera ready. I'll probably pick the book up if I see it.

I think the book has been out of print for quite a while, and I don't know if it was ever published in the US. I checked on Amazon UK, and secondhand copies are selling for as little as 1 pence, (seller makes their money through shipping) so you could look into getting it from there. Amazon US logins work on Amazon UK, shipping just costs more than it would for an Amazon UK customer. ETA: Now that I look at it, you would have to get the book from a third-party seller, I'm not sure if they'll ship to the US. Worth a try though, as long as they don't charge you the earth for shipping.

And yes, John Cleese is a ton of fun as Cat R. Waul. I also love that Tanya floors the villain with her singing; that's fun to watch. In fact Tanya was a much more fun character in this film; and Tiger was hilarious.

Now that I think about it, that's probably why I prefer the second movie, the first one is very much all about Fievel, but in the sequel the other characters get their chance to shine too.

Fun fact: The voice actress for Tony played Miranda the reporter in Full Throttle.

That explains why I always thought her voice sounded familiar! And now I know! (it's half the battle)

[mgrant]

I'm a fan of animation, be it traditional or CG, so long as it tells a good story. Granted, that's how I feel about any medium, but for some reason I have a lower tolerance for stupid animation than I do for stupid movies.

[Leplaya]

Thumbelina was the king of Disney imitation, though.Ironically the voice actress who voiced Thumbelina provided the voice of Ariel{Jodi Benson}. Werent there other voice actors from Disney in this movie as well?

Have you watched any French animated films, like Persepolis or The Triplets of Belleville? They're pretty fantastic. I havent seen triplets of Belleville, but I have seen Persepolis, although not for a long time though. I remember enjoying it though. I remember that my older brother was a bit aggravated that the fact that this lost at the animation awards due to Pixar's Ratatouille. Seeing how Persepolis was animated by the french{yes french animators} does anyone know if the animators or anyone who worked on that film were angry about it? I know I was because nothing personal on the people who enjoyed Ratatouille, But Persepolis is the better film here. But thats my own view.



I like some of the jokes in Family Guy, but it doesn't work as an animated sitcom because the plot is secondary to the jokes. It would work better as a 15-minute sketch show like Robot Chicken, both because they wouldn't need a plot at all, and also because they wouldn't need to pad for time.

The main reason why I happen to dislike Family guy is because its a similar note to what John K said about the show. Because REAL cartoonists cant get the work to change animation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQkPQC8-AJI). Studios want to try to copy family guy and that just aggravates me because Seth in my own view isnt a cartoonist. He's just a bum who is doing animation as an excuse just for cash. Same goes for Robot Chicken (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE2jFaH4VwA).

[Giant Tope]

The main reason why I happen to dislike Family guy is because its a similar note to what John K said about the show. Because REAL cartoonists cant get the work to change animation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQkPQC8-AJI). Studios want to try to copy family guy and that just aggravates me because Seth in my own view isnt a cartoonist. He's just a bum who is doing animation as an excuse just for cash. Same goes for Robot Chicken (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE2jFaH4VwA).

Ehhhhh... As long as there's TV, there will always be popular, badly animated shows. Just look at the Flintstones. Is the fact that people want to make a cheap buck in Showbiz really shocking? It's incredibly hard to break through otherwise, but it is possible, and it does happen.

[mgrant]

It really is all about the ratings....most of the time. Family guy's a weird case as it made it's return on DVD sales, and Fox cancelled it like twice yet it keeps coming back.

I have to admit I like the early seasons of Robot Chicken, but given their frequent descent into dick jokes and the like in recent seasons, my enjoyment has significantly decreased. Titan Maximum shows the creators still can be clever, they just choose not to be.

[Jennifer]

The main reason why I happen to dislike Family guy is because its a similar note to what John K said about the show. Because REAL cartoonists cant get the work to change animation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQkPQC8-AJI).
That link mentions that FOX won't accept any new animated series, but to be honest I don't see why anyone, whether they are animators or creators of live action television shows, would even consider pitching a new series to FOX.

They have a history of moving shows around so much that fans don't know when they are on, not advertising their shows properly, and then canceling them due to low ratings.

The other networks aren't much better. Corporations and art never seem to be able to coexist peacefully. Even when a show has been on the air for years, you always hear stories about the network wanting the show changed in some way. The internet is a much better venue for creative output.

[Giant Tope]

Also, the fact of the matter is that in America, the general public tends to think: Animation=Cartoon=For Kids. Until we can remove that stigma, nothing's ever going to change.

The internet is a much better venue for creative output.

also yes.

[Darkblader]

Wow. I'm quite impressed with seeing everybody's opioions and tastes for animation. Even though I should have mentioned my tastes in the beginning, I like mostly 2D animation from Japan. But some American stuff is good to look at depending on what it is. Say has anyone seen Cats Dont Dance or Ferngully?

That link mentions that FOX won't accept any new animated series, but to be honest I don't see why anyone, whether they are animators or creators of live action television shows, would even consider pitching a new series to FOX.I think that is what Leplaya was saying but in a different term I guess. Besides Fox's animation stuff is nearly the same recycled junk{expect for earlier simpsons episodes}. Although I remember the whole Fisaco of Family guy when it was new when people were telling it as a knock-off of the simpsons. There was even a video on youtube{before fox removed it for copyright issues} that had clips of some simpsons episodes along with clips from family guy that were similar to the matter.

[Alcoremortis]

Say has anyone seen Cats Dont Dance or Ferngully?

FernGully was pretty much my favorite movie (besides Land before Time) when I was a kid.

[mgrant]

Fergully is one of those movies I really enjoyed as a child, but now have a hard time watching because the plot is (to me at least) poorly constructed and ridiculous (It's not Black Cauldron bad though). However, I've sort of made a hobby of hurting myself with bad/silly movies and cartoons, so I've gone back to it every once in a while.

[Leplaya]

Cats Dont dance I have enjoyed, and heck its one of the few Non-Disney animated films thats actually enjoyable{I'm a sucker for Randy Newman's music :p}. Ferngully, I havent seen. But I remember it being mentioned quite alot from James Cameron's avatar ripping off a piece of the story from it.Now lets get on with the video games (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T000NITxEGM). Has anyone seen Adventures of Sonic or Sonic satam? I say they are both highly enjoyable while Sonic X can just screw itself.

[Giant Tope]

Cats Dont dance I have enjoyed, and heck its one of the few Non-Disney animated films thats actually enjoyable

what?

[Leplaya]

The only thing that makes it enjoyable is the music, thats it.

[Darkblader]

Speaking of other animation has anyone seen films such as Secret of the kells or even stuff from japan? Oh and does anyone know when the heck Last days of coney island comes out or even dragon's lair?

[Leplaya]

I've ordered the DVD of Kells but I gotta wait for awhile for it to arrive. Now Last Days of Coney island (from what I have heard) is on hold but however the guy behind it is saying there might be a chance of it being finished someday. Anyways as for the dragon's lair movie...That has been in the planning stages since the game itself came out. Don should do a new video game if he wants the film made(hey it worked for ghostbusters didnt it?)

[DoctorCello]

Speaking of other animation has anyone seen films such as Secret of the kells or even stuff from japan? Oh and does anyone know when the heck Last days of coney island comes out or even dragon's lair?

I've seen Secret of Kells. GORGEOUS design and animation, but the story was a bit lacking I think... And I'm pretty sure most everyone has seen something from Japan.

[Giant Tope]

The only thing that makes it enjoyable is the music, thats it.

No, I mean, is anything not Disney really that enjoyable to you?

[Darkblader]

Giant, u talking about the non-disney animated stuff that people confused as Disney films?

[Giant Tope]

No, I'm commenting on the phrase: "Cats Dont dance I have enjoyed, and heck its one of the few Non-Disney animated films thats actually enjoyable.", which is just a weird comment to me.

[mgrant]

Sonic SatAM is one of those shows from childhood that still manages to hold up fantastically (a lot of 90s cartoons are like that though, I've found). I actually re-watched it during my winter term and really enjoyed revisiting it. Of course, I enjoy the old Legend of Zelda cartoon as well, so I guess my tastes are a bit...odd.

[VeronicanPlay]

I am, favourite animated show is Max Steel.

And I love animated movies, like Toy Story and the likes. :)

[Rather Dashing]

Sonic SatAM is one of those shows from childhood that still manages to hold up fantastically (a lot of 90s cartoons are like that though, I've found). I actually re-watched it during my winter term and really enjoyed revisiting it. Of course, I enjoy the old Legend of Zelda cartoon as well, so I guess my tastes are a bit...odd.
Well EX-CUUUUUUUSE ME, Princess! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPxY8lpYAUM)

[mgrant]

^ Dear God, this makes me far happier than it should. It's such an entertaining trainwreck of a show.

[Leplaya]

Giant tope why do u think its weird that I said that? (should have said it earlier) I should tell you I like non-disney animation, but I hate it how everyone who doesnt even do the research think that films like cats don't dance are Disney films. When in real life they are not.

And Sonic satam is still a good show. But for zelda...Why the hell they even make that is way beyond me. Its an insult to the games in my own view.

[Rather Dashing]

I saw The Maxx mentioned in a Wikipedia article, and I decided to revisit it. All 13 episodes, 11 minutes long each without ads, are here (http://www.mtv.com/shows/the_maxx/video.jhtml). It really is excellent for TV animation. Stylish, intelligently written, powerfully atmospheric, dramatic, and funny. I really wish stuff like this could get on television more often than it ultimately does.

[mrpineapplehead]

YES.

also on the subject of animation, i just watched a anime film (hint: its professor layton) and it was really good.

[PecanBlue]

I wonder if someone from this forum goes to the same school I do, because in the animation lab yesterday one of the lunchbox screens had a sketchy, redone version of Curse of Monkey Island, from when he's picking up canon balls at the beginning. SPEAK UP, WHO WAS IT?

And so this post isn't meaningless I love this studio's (http://www.youtube.com/user/gobelins#p/u/1/y6ZmMjMdrqs) short animations, specifically "Le Royaume" but the rest are also awesome. (watch out as some of them are risque!)

[tredlow]

I wanna watch this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P21Re_mB2Q) Big fan of the comics.

Oh, and http://www.cracked.com/article_18516_the-6-most-psychotic-rip-offs-famous-animated-films_p1.html

[PecanBlue]

Just bumping this thread to say you guys should give Megamind a chance. I just watched it with my class expecting a flood of mediocrity like Monsters vs. Aliens was, but I actually enjoyed it A LOT. It was a very pleasant surprise. It's not loaded with annoying pop culture jokes, (in fact a lot of the jokes are actually funny and some of them made me roar with laughter which hasn't happened in years) and the characters have actual development and you might even feel something for them! And they totally blew my mind by nullifying one predictable plot twist that I was groaning at with another plot twist I wasn't expecting at all. It's like they knew what I was thinking.

I'm impressed, Dreamworks! Two good movies in one year?! They better keep this up.

Although I hate that they always need to put a dance number at the end. FFFFFFFF. Even Pixar does this with Toy Story 2 and 3! This needs to stop and it needs to stop now.

[swedish_jedi]

I just found this on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26E4Zo9W4K4

THE WRONG BLOCK, a new animated noir thriller from some of the guys behind Ugly Americans. The movie is still in production and no date has been set. It looks really impressive from the trailer and I hope this gets a release very soon.

Synopsis
Following the mysterious and tragic death of his partner, the city's top detective, Max Braddock, retires from the force and buries himself in the bottle.

Eleven years later, as he attempts to put the pieces of his life back together he discovers that the child he swore to protect that night, his partner’s son, has become the most feared criminal mastermind in the city. Drowning in guilt, Max fights his way out of purgatory and takes it upon himself to right the wrong he committed so many years ago...with this one last case.

The crumbling, urban blight is the battleground for this twisted, dark tale of redemption, courage, and sacrifice.


Sometimes, you have to go to war to escape your past...and Max Braddock is locked and loaded.
This is The Wrong Block.

[DoctorCello]

And so this post isn't meaningless I love this studio's (http://www.youtube.com/user/gobelins#p/u/1/y6ZmMjMdrqs) short animations, specifically "Le Royaume" but the rest are also awesome. (watch out as some of them are risque!)

Pssssst... Gobelins isn't a studio. It's a school.

...which makes their stuff even more impressive.

EDIT: And whoooooa my goodness, swedish_jedi, that thing you posted was AWESOME.

[Secret Fawful]

I kind of want to see this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1YLnsmpyY) now that I know the Lion King almost COMPLETELY ripped it off.

[Giant Tope]

Not... really.

[Secret Fawful]

Except yes (http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm).

[Giant Tope]

oh adoreable

picture mining

[Remolay]

Except no, as The Lion King was based off of Hamlet, Not Kimba.

I'm currently Watching Darkwing Duck, I loved that show.

this guy has all of it. (http://www.youtube.com/user/wonderbar#g/c/84763BB4A4ABA9C1)

[Secret Fawful]

Or Hamlet was just one of the things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_King#Controversies), including Kimba, it was based on, I mean that it ripped off.

[Giant Tope]

It's really easy to claim something is ripping off something. In reality it usually isn't.

I find it funny that you're making this claim when you haven't even seen the movie yet.

[Secret Fawful]

I didn't make the claim. I heard it. When I see the movie, I might completely change my mind. Still, the amount of similarities are striking. Oh and the very opening shot of Leo is noticeably similar to the very opening shot of The Rescuers Down Under.

I'm actually interested in every single anime in this post, as most of it looks like its from the 80s or so. (http://anime.gr/forums/showpost.php?p=28698&postcount=1)

[Jen Kollic]

Oh and the very opening shot of Leo is noticeably similar to the very opening shot of The Rescuers Down Under.

Yeah, but the thing to bear in mind here is that while Jungle Emperor Leo is based on a manga from the 60s, it wasn't actually made until 1997, after both Rescuers Down Under and the Lion King. So while there might be similarities in the story, you can't really say that Disney ripped off the cinematography. ETA: Though I admit that there are some very similar poses that Disney has used in the Lion King.

Also, while I won't deny that there are similarities, one of the main differences between Lion King and Jungle Emperor Leo/Kimba the White Lion is the role that humans play. Lion King has no human presence whatsoever, but there's several important human characters and villains in Jungle Emperor and Kimba. In Kimba the animals can even talk with the humans. (this was going to be in Jungle Emperor as well because it's in the manga version, but got removed) And nobody dies of plague in the Lion King.

[Secret Fawful]

Fair enough, but similarly Quasimodo doesn't kill Frollo himself, Esmerelda doesn't die, and Quasimodo doesn't starve to death in The Hunchback of Notre Dame. I doubt death by plague would have made it into The Lion King.

[PecanBlue]

Lion King may not be a rip-off, but it does have a lot of similarities to Kimba, hell just the protagonist names have a similarity already. The old concept art of the Lion King or the slip-up of calling Simba "Kimba" in an interview can't be coincidence. I don't mind if it shares some of its spirit, after all, anime borrowed a lot from American animation back in the day and still does, and we also borrow from anime. The only thing I found kind of messed up is that Disney denies it was ever even at least inspired by it, but whatevs.

[Jen Kollic]

Hah, the only thing Hunchback has in common with the original book is the names of the characters. Clopin didn't get to slaughter mounted soldiers with a scythe either.

Though they did make an entirely accurate adaptation of The Little Match Girl, so freezing to death is just peachy.

ETA: 'Simba' is actually the Swahili word for 'lion', which is why Disney used it. It's also the name for the werelion race in one of the RPGs I play, so now there's always sniggers when you talk about 'killing Simba' in the game.

[RingmasterJ5]

Except no, as The Lion King was based off of Hamlet, Not Kimba.

I'm currently Watching Darkwing Duck, I loved that show.

this guy has all of it. (http://www.youtube.com/user/wonderbar#g/c/84763BB4A4ABA9C1)

That user has a bunch more awesome full series, too much to list here.

[Rather Dashing]

ETA: 'Simba' is actually the Swahili word for 'lion', which is why Disney used it. It's also the name for the werelion race in one of the RPGs I play, so now there's always sniggers when you talk about 'killing Simba' in the game.
And "Kimba" wasn't called Simba only because there was some rights issue. Was it a beer or something? I can't really remember, but something was using the name Simba and so they changed a letter to avoid potential legal problems.

[Darkblader]

Werent Tezuka's relatives pissed at Disney because of that?

[Secret Fawful]

Werent Tezuka's relatives pissed at Disney because of that?

Yes they were.

[doodo!]

The whole lion king conflict one me over with this thread. Very interesting.

[Ribs]

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's that Hamlet is a loose, dark and gritty remake of the Lion King.

[mgrant]

With Ahnuld. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evdkh5yv6gA&feature=related)

[tredlow]

Hey, what do you guys think of John Kricfalusi?

[doodo!]

With Ahnuld. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evdkh5yv6gA&feature=related)

Some what funny, we might be able to be friends...some day...not now. Get lost.

[mgrant]

Ouch, that's harsh dude.

[doodo!]

Ouch, that's harsh dude.

Well, coming from a guy named doodo...

I sent you a invite...

[Katsuro]

I kind of want to see this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1YLnsmpyY) now that I know the Lion King almost COMPLETELY ripped it off.

Aw that kind of reminds me of Disneys "Atlantis" and "The Secret of Blue Water".

They are such a fun company :D

[mgrant]

Well, coming from a guy named doodo...

I sent you a invite...

Just accepted it, and I mean the harsh comment in a joking fashion, probably should have included an emote. I never really get my meaning across online all that well.

[PecanBlue]

Hey, what do you guys think of John Kricfalusi?

He's kind of a jerk and I don't agree with his opinions, but his knowledge on animation is fabulous.

[tredlow]

He's kind of a jerk and I don't agree with his opinions, but his knowledge on animation is fabulous.

Haha, exactly!

Though, I think that people misunderstood him for only caring about animation and not writing. When he's commenting on some stuff, it's mostly about the animation, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about the writing as well. I heard somewhere that he once claimed that South Park is the funniest thing on TV. The thing is, he's an animator, so he mostly talks only about the animation.

That said, his OWN writing skills aren't that good, which shows in the Ren and Stimpy Adult Party Cartoon, which was expertly animated, but the writing was just mediocre. I liked Ripping Friends, but I quickly grew out of Ren and Stimpy when I was young, and APC didn't change my mind.

I also don't like how close-minded he is about animation styles. It's like, "Animation is only good if it's done like Looney Tunes".

So, how about Adult Swim? What do you guys think about it?

[Rather Dashing]

Ever since the Moral Orel cancellation and the reasoning behind it, Adult Swim has been a real sore spot for me, personally. During the final season, I loved that show.

[Leplaya]

John K? I hope you guys dont get angry at me but I'm friends with John K. The only reason on how I see it, why people hate him is because he bashed on tiny toons and animanics(even bitching it takes it too far, its HIS FREAKING opinion). Dont like it? then move on! APC I had a mixed bag on(but I did laugh my lungs out on Ralph bakshi being the fire chief though). Speaking of Ralph. He and John K were going to do a film called Bobby's girl but it didnt get off the ground.

As for Adult swim. Adult swim makes the poorest choices for entertainment. I hate robot chicken(I even made a video about it on my youtube account). And the most of the stuff they serve is garbage. Superjail is one of the ONLY good things on that channel. And they did the inexcusable. Canceling Korgoth over crap. Who made this poor choice is way beyond me on what would have been an awesome show that would change my views on Adult swim.

[PecanBlue]

The only reason on how I see it, why people hate him is because he bashed on tiny toons and animanics

nope

[Leplaya]

nopeAnd I suppose you got a better explanation then Pecan?

[PecanBlue]

Yes, when he expresses his opinions about things such as why all 3D animation is crap, he does so in a very arrogant and pretentious way. His replies to people that disagree with him aren't different either.

[Giant Tope]

He also has an attitude of: MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.

[tredlow]

As for Adult swim. Adult swim makes the poorest choices for entertainment. I hate robot chicken(I even made a video about it on my youtube account). And the most of the stuff they serve is garbage. Superjail is one of the ONLY good things on that channel. And they did the inexcusable. Canceling Korgoth over crap. Who made this poor choice is way beyond me on what would have been an awesome show that would change my views on Adult swim.

No love for Venture Bros?

I like Adult Swim shows, and the reason is the same why I like most American cartoons; variety. Almost every single American animated show have different drawing and animation styles. That's also the reason I don't watch that much anime (not hate, mind you, just not that interested), is that they all kinda look the same to me.

[Rather Dashing]

That's also the reason I don't watch that much anime (not hate, mind you, just not that interested), is that they all kinda look the same to me.
While there certainly is a lot more uniformity when it comes to Japanese animation styles, the full stylistic range doesn't generally get represented in the somewhat homogeneous choices of the modern American anime market.

One show that has recently blown me away stylistically(and certainly in other ways as well) was The Tatami Galaxy (http://www.hulu.com/watch/144189/the-tatami-galaxy-tennis-circle-cupid#s-p3-so-i0).

[tredlow]

While there certainly is a lot more uniformity when it comes to Japanese animation styles, the full stylistic range doesn't generally get represented in the somewhat homogeneous choices of the modern American anime market.

I agree. And if there's one thing anime has done (more) that American cartoons hasn't is leaving the demographic comfort zone.

In the case of American cartoons, there are only a handful of those aimed toward adults compared to those aimed at children, and they are treated like two different categories, as well as their audience. While in the case of anime, one series can be aimed towards both children and adults.

I mean, American adult cartoons are mostly "adult" because of their use of crass humor and violence, instead of depth and subject, which can be applied more universally to the audience. There are shows like The Simpsons and South Park who deliver the depth and subject, but most shows, like Drawn Together, are just shallow stuff that think the word "adult" means "stuff kids aren't allowed to see". I'm not saying that adult animated shows with only crass humor are bad (except for Drawn Together, which I never find funny), I just wish that American adult cartoons can go beyond that.

Well, that's what I observed, anyway, and I don't watch that much anime, so correct me if I'm wrong.

[Darkblader]

John K to me is a mixed bag. I'm not a fan of his cartoons(Although, he should work for playboy since he does cute girls that look good for their entertainment). But I'm just astonished on his animation knowledge. Adult swim(not a big fan of it). But has anyone seen the anime Cowboy Bebop?

[PecanBlue]

Speaking of stylized anime, a show that seems to be pretty popular right now is Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt but to tell you the truth, I just don't find it funny. The animation and style is splendid to look at, of course, but it seems the jokes are just "hey look this girl's a ho and this other girl loves sweets, OH WOMEN!" and then the rest are poorly placed sex jokes and cursing. I dunno, bro.

But yes I think it's worth it for the animation, if I remove the subs I can tolerate it more. (this is the one time I'm hoping they dub an anime and actually FIX IT)

[mgrant]

^This.

Gainax is good about having series with varied and unique art styles, but the substance sometimes...well, when I watch something it either has to entertain me or make me think and many times their shows do neither for me.

[tredlow]

Which one do you think is better, 3D animation or 2D animation? (Mind you, we're talking about animated films and series, not video games)

[PecanBlue]

They both have their merits. I like dynamic and stylized 3D animation for example. Pixar is great and all, but sometimes the style just seems a little stiff, so for me, the stories combined with visuals are amazing, but the animation isn't as fun to watch as other 3D movies I've seen. (not the case with something like The Incredibles, Up and Wall-E though, those are pretty dynamic and stylized)

I prefer 2D animation though. It's more varied than 3D animation and the effort that it takes to make it compared to 3D animation just subconsciously amazes me more and thus makes me enjoy it more. Plus, from my experience, it's more fun to make than 3D. It's a craploads more work for sure, and somewhere in between making something you might want to kill yourself, but once you see it completed you realize it was all worth it.

[mgrant]

Which one do you think is better, 3D animation or 2D animation? (Mind you, we're talking about animated films and series, not video games)

Depends. I think ultimately in my mind story takes precedence over style, though a truly terrible aesthetic can completely ruin that. I suppose I have a slight preference for 2D animation simply because of three factors:

- It tends to hold up better over time.
- There can be more stylistic variation without running the risk of dropping into that uncanny valley that CGI tends to fall into more often than not.
- 2D just seems less noticeable. That probably sounds like a criticism, but it's not. Art and stylistic choices for a movie or cartoon are to move the story forward and present a certain visual setting. Animation is the backdrop to good story and if you're not paying attention to how good the art is, then that means you're absorbed in the story. 3D I ALWAYS notice, meaning that it never seems like a totally integrated part of the story-telling experience.

This is not to say that I dislike 3D because I'm a huge fan of the Pixar films and early 3D shows like Reboot. It's just...I don't know, 2D works a bit more for me as a viewer.

[Rather Dashing]

2D vs 3D is actually the wrong dichotomy. Claymation is just as 3D, if not moreso, than 3D CGI, and animation done in a computer can easily be 2D(and 2D computer animation is really popular with low-budget shows). The difference for me is between hand-crafted animation and computer-crafted animation. Even then, the two can(and often are) blended, like in Futurama with Rough Draft studios.

[Jen Kollic]

This is not to say that I dislike 3D because I'm a huge fan of the Pixar films and early 3D shows like Reboot.

w00t, a fellow ReBoot fan! Did you hear that the current owners of the IP recently announced that they'll be releasing a DVD box set of the whole series? Hasn't been any more word on releasing a new series though, but given the way it was going, that's maybe for the best.

As far as 2D vs 3D goes, it really doesn't make that big a difference to me as long as the story's good and it's well-made. Cheap CGI looks bad, but so does cheap 2D animation.

[mgrant]

w00t, a fellow ReBoot fan! Did you hear that the current owners of the IP recently announced that they'll be releasing a DVD box set of the whole series? Hasn't been any more word on releasing a new series though, but given the way it was going, that's maybe for the best.


I hadn't heard that, but YES! FINALLY! I've been waiting for a ReBoot box set for years. That makes me very, very happy.

[DoctorCello]

Ever since the Moral Orel cancellation and the reasoning behind it, Adult Swim has been a real sore spot for me, personally. During the final season, I loved that show.

http://i51.tinypic.com/16jkfww.jpg

Speaking of stylized anime, a show that seems to be pretty popular right now is Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt but to tell you the truth, I just don't find it funny. The animation and style is splendid to look at, of course, but it seems the jokes are just "hey look this girl's a ho and this other girl loves sweets, OH WOMEN!" and then the rest are poorly placed sex jokes and cursing. I dunno, bro.

But yes I think it's worth it for the animation, if I remove the subs I can tolerate it more. (this is the one time I'm hoping they dub an anime and actually FIX IT)

Yeah, I kinda feel the same, really. It's like they're trying reeeeaally hard to be American, and in order to do that, they made their characters really stereotyped and one-dimensional. But I mean, even the Powerpuff Girls had more dimension than The Smart One, The Innocent One, and The Tomboy One.

Gainax is good about having series with varied and unique art styles, but the substance sometimes...well, when I watch something it either has to entertain me or make me think and many times their shows do neither for me.

Not even Gurren Lagann? D:

[mgrant]

Not even Gurren Lagann? D:

Gurren Lagann is....alright. It was weird, because I'm a HUGE giant mecha anime fan (I think it springs from my long love affair with Kaiju and Sentai material) yet Gurren Lagann just couldn't hold my focus. It might have been because I saw GL right after coming off of the amazing yet underrated RahXephon, but overall I just, I don't know, I lost interest about half way through the series. I keep telling myself I should go back to it, but I get distracted by other anime like Baccano! or Kuroshitsuji.

I guess where I stand at the moment with is is this: Gurren Lagann is beautiful and its fights are well choreographed and a joy to watch, it was just an exhausting series for me. Plus it's not Neon Genesis Evangelion, which wins it an instant 150 points in my book. *ducks inevitable fruit to be thrown by EVA fans*

[DoctorCello]

Gurren Lagann is....alright. It was weird, because I'm a HUGE giant mecha anime fan (I think it springs from my long love affair with Kaiju and Sentai material) yet Gurren Lagann just couldn't hold my focus. It might have been because I saw GL right after coming off of the amazing yet underrated RahXephon, but overall I just, I don't know, I lost interest about half way through the series. I keep telling myself I should go back to it, but I get distracted by other anime like Baccano! or Kuroshitsuji.

I guess where I stand at the moment with is is this: Gurren Lagann is beautiful and its fights are well choreographed and a joy to watch, it was just an exhausting series for me. Plus it's not Neon Genesis Evangelion, which wins it an instant 150 points in my book. *ducks inevitable fruit to be thrown by EVA fans*

Wait, you haven't finished Gurren Lagann?

...

You should finish Gurren Lagann.

And I am completely used to people hating on Evangelion. In fact, it's starting to get to the point where people could say it's underrated. :|

[mgrant]

And I am completely used to people hating on Evangelion. In fact, it's starting to get to the point where people could say it's underrated. :|

I've always been under the impression that more people like EVA than disliked it. Maybe it's the people I hang out with.

I hate on it because had bad plot and characterization. I've sat through ALL of the EVA stuff though, so I feel sort of legitimized in my griping. If you enjoy it, however, more power to you. I don't think less of you for doing so. My tastes in anime are, for the most part, pretty niche (stuff like Kino's Journey, Rune Soldier, RahXephon and Black Lagoon) so I know my tastes are generally off of the normal viewing radar.

[Rather Dashing]

And I am completely used to people hating on Evangelion. In fact, it's starting to get to the point where people could say it's underrated. :|
I'd still love to see an analytical post from you about Eva, because I don't care for it but you do seem to know what you're talking about in terms of your thoughts on it, so I'm sure I'd find it to be an interesting read.

[PecanBlue]

I've had to sit through a very long vocal rant from someone in the 2D lab because we were making small talk and I said I didn't like Evangelion when asked about my tastes. That was not very pleasant.

That dude didn't even ask about one thing that wasn't Japanese. Only Avatar. (The Last Airbender)

[DoctorCello]

I'd still love to see an analytical post from you about Eva, because I don't care for it but you do seem to know what you're talking about in terms of your thoughts on it, so I'm sure I'd find it to be an interesting read.

Yeeeeah, honestly, the issue is that I've been really busy with schoolwork, and if I wanted to fully explain my thoughts on Evangelion, I would take forever. I'll get to that eventually, though, I promise!

And I'm not saying that Evangelion still doesn't have its fans, because it definitely does, but I imagine it's probably smaller than how it used to be due to shifting tastes in anime, so in return the fans tend to be VERY vocal about how amazing it is. I will have to say that even a lot of the fans tend to miss the point of Evangelion, though.

EDIT: As proof for how small the fanbase is, how many people other than me on this forum will openly admit they like Evangelion?

[Ribs]

Someone explain to me why anime is so popular and not just Japanese Cartoons that have Soap Opera Drama.

[doodo!]

I don't recommend the planet of the apes cartoon. I might finish it some day but it's pretty bad for fans or any one who's seen the movies.

[Giant Tope]

Someone explain to me why anime is so popular and not just Japanese Cartoons that have Soap Opera Drama.

Only if you genuinely want to know and aren't out to start a fight.

[Comrade Pants]

EDIT: As proof for how small the fanbase is, how many people other than me on this forum will openly admit they like Evangelion?

ME!

What do I win?

Can I be a social outcast mech pilot now?

[Rather Dashing]

I'll give Eva one thing: I'd take it ANY DAY over the paint-by-numbers Shonen, shojo, and weird sex fetish stuff that has taken over the american anime industry lately.

[DoctorCello]

ME!

What do I win?

Can I be a social outcast mech pilot now?

Wait what. I thought you didn't like Evangelion!

[Ribs]

Only if you genuinely want to know and aren't out to start a fight.

Oh, I've got nothing against Anime, I just don't understand why it's so popular if what I've heard of it is true.

[PecanBlue]

I always just thought it was popular because it has that "foreign = exotic" thing going for it, since I guess people are used to generalizing American animation as one thing, and see that anime is different, I guess for the usually more serious plots and more detailed (but less animated) style, so they turn to that.

Then again, I'm not a big anime fan so I can't really say what the big appeal is.

[mgrant]

Oh, I've got nothing against Anime, I just don't understand why it's so popular if what I've heard of it is true.

Personally I got into anime because the fare was a bit darker and more sophisticated than american cartoons at the time. I started out on early anime fare though: Robotech, Record of Lodoss War, the 1970s Cyborg 009, Battle of the Planets and Space Battleship Yamato. Also in there was some early anime film stuff like Nausicaä and the Valley of the Wind. It was just...very different. I mean, for example, Robotech is a space opera about an intergalactic war where people, civilizations and often whole planets are destroyed. It pulls no punches and I really liked that.

Since then I've remained a bit niche in my anime tastes, preferring heavily story based or cerebral sorts of anime, so I can't really speak to why it's popular at large. I can only give my reason for staying with it and that is simply that anime, when done well, can be a fantastic medium for story telling and, unlike western animation, has very few qualms about going into some very mature themes.

That's not to say that western animation won't touch on serious subjects, it's just there's a certain mentality in the west that animation is for kids, and that will always limit it to an extent.

...wow, this turned a bit blathery, sorry.

[Comrade Pants]

Wait what. I thought you didn't like Evangelion!

Wait, what? Cite your sources! It's my most favourite anime ever. Except, perhaps, for Outlaw Star... Maybe Trigun. Or FLCL. Ok, that's my shortlist at least.

[DoctorCello]

PecanBlue has the right of it -- the grass is always greener on the other side, right? However, anime is also popular because there are a wider variety of genres and stories available, so logically more people would be able to find something they like about it. That isn't to say that American animation can't be like that, but because in America it's usually a more expensive process than live-action, mainstream studios try to play it safe for the most part. In Japan, animators are severely underpaid, so it's usually actually cheaper to animate a story than to shoot it in real life. I guarantee you that if shows like Lost, Firefly, or 24 were created in Japan, they would be anime, and vice-versa with Cowboy Bebop, Baccano, or Monster. Of course, it also helps that in Japan, comics are widely-recognized as something more than nerdy picture books, so anime has that to support it.

Also, even anime shows meant for a preteen audience like Naruto or Sailor Moon aren't afraid to tackle subjects like loss and death, and even if it's done kinda cheesily and it isn't all that deep, I think a lot of kids appreciate not being talked down to about it. So yeah!

And Comrade, here (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=393544&postcount=31). Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Comrade Pants]

Ah. What I meant is the ending of the original TV series was just awful. Such a let down. As a whole, I loved the series. It's just that last, terrible episode...

[Rather Dashing]

Anime that Rather Dashing likes. (http://goo.gl/khJyW)

[Comrade Pants]

Anime that Comrade Pants likes,too. (http://goo.gl/khJyW)

[DoctorCello]

Anime that Rather Dashing likes. (http://goo.gl/khJyW)

Rather Dashing, I'm curious. What other anime do you like other than The Tatami Galaxy?

[Rather Dashing]

Rather Dashing, I'm curious. What other anime do you like other than The Tatami Galaxy?
Here's a short list, off the top of my head:

Kamui no Ken (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2vGP5vgFJg)
Paranoia Agent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-anabfAg06U)
Serial Experiments Lain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XfJwh2cC6o)
Wings of Honneamise (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fcvUrhFEpk)
Grave of the Fireflies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbEyjUsWKZA)
Barefoot Gen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtRLYh-xL-c)
Fist of the North Star film (http://goo.gl/MBNJh)(Manga most of the way for this one, but this film tickles my fancy)
Robot Carnival (http://goo.gl/YDsSf)
Cowboy Bebop (http://goo.gl/ht1Mn)
Boogiepop Phantom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr1BvWsByRc)

I also have a couple guilty pleasures, like Dragonball(which I love far more than I should) and Crest of the Stars.

Also, while it's not an anime, I feel I really should mention Parasyte as well.

[Comrade Pants]

"Of the top of my head" my arse! You asked me over Skype, you lying bastard! RAGE!

[JedExodus]

I'm still yet to watch Cowboy Bebop, as recommended to me by that Eurotrash Secret Fawful.

But the second I do i'll be sure to let you all know what I think, so that you may all not care what I think

[Comrade Pants]

Eurotrash

Doesn't Ireland count as a part of Europe? I mean, it's an island, but it's on the continental shelf and all... I guess what I'm saying is - glass houses, man. Glass houses.

[Secret Fawful]

I'm still yet to watch Cowboy Bebop, as recommended to me by that Eurotrash Secret Fawful.

But the second I do i'll be sure to let you all know what I think, so that you may all not care what I think

I'm not from Europe! Hah! Get to it. Don't make me sic the leeches on you!

[JedExodus]

Doesn't Ireland count as a part of Europe? I mean, it's an island, but it's on the continental shelf and all... I guess what I'm saying is - glass houses, man. Glass houses.

Nah, there's mainland Europe, and then us and the UK. We're European and all, untill it's not convienent, then we pretend we don't know what those crazy hoors on the continent are up to

I'm not from Europe! Hah! Get to it. Don't make me sic the leeches on you!

Wtf, I thought you were Dutch or something! This changes everything about the recommendation i'm afraid, no dice Slawful

[Secret Fawful]

Wtf, I thought you were Dutch or something! This changes everything about the recommendation I'm afraid, no dice Slawful

I'm flattered you thought I was Dutch (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/5894/dutch.jpg). I can see how you would be very put off to find out I'm not.

[PecanBlue]

I just had to ask, is anyone here NOT that excited about Tangled? I feel like the only one, in fact I feel like it's being too overrated before it even comes out, and that will ruin it for me. :(

People are saying "this is quite the achievement because they managed to make it look like a 2D style in 3D" but I... Don't see it? It looks like an ordinary, cartoony 3D flick to me. Don't get me wrong, it looks gorgeous and that hair, wow, (I even bought the art book already, I can't resist dat Glen Keane) but it doesn't look like anything different, special or revolutionary about 3D animation. If this is how a 2D style translates to 3D, then I've seen it several times. If they wanted a "2D style" why not make it... You know, 2D? I don't know, is it just me?

Also, I've heard the story is typical, predictable Disney princess-type stuff, which is all fine and good for kids, but if it's true, that also doesn't make it any step-up for Disney. But whatever, for that I'll reserve judgment for when I see it.

[DoctorCello]

I just had to ask, is anyone here NOT that excited about Tangled? I feel like the only one, in fact I feel like it's being too overrated before it even comes out, and that will ruin it for me. :(

I take it you don't follow Cartoon Brew? Heh. Personally, I'm not all that excited for it either, but then again, I wasn't excited for The Princess and the Frog and I ended up loving it, so ehn. I can see why people are excited for the look though - it's not so much about it looking 2D as it is about having a painting come to life in 3D. Whether or not they're successful about it is debatable, though.

[Rather Dashing]

I was really excited about the animation when I heard about it, you know, before anything was shown. But now that I'm looking at it....

...I'm....not really seeing what they were talking about.

[PecanBlue]

I take it you don't follow Cartoon Brew?

I do, actually. People's bickering over that review is what made me want to post this here, because I'm sure if I would have said this where the article was being discussed I would have been jumped. :|

I can see why people are excited for the look though - it's not so much about it looking 2D as it is about having a painting come to life in 3D. Whether or not they're successful about it is debatable, though.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean. I was very excited about it when we were told it would look like The Swing, but then, like Rather Dashing said, actual footage was released and I didn't see any resemblance. It pretty much looks like any ordinary 3D movie, (with the 2D anatomical style thrown in, of course, but other 3D movies have their own unique style that would also translate well into 2D) and I don't know how it could warrant as a "painting in 3D" anymore.

[mgrant]

I just had to ask, is anyone here NOT that excited about Tangled?

Honestly it seems sort of...generic to me. It seems like they're taking a page out of the Dreamworks book of turning fairy tale roles on it's head, which isn't a bad thing as Dreamworks has done it fantastically well. However, after Enchanted did such a knock out job of doing the same thing, though more specifically with the concept of the Disney Princess, I can't help but feel like Tangled is a step down. Nothing really feels all that unique about it, at least as far as the trailers are concerned.

However, I'm willing to hold off judgement until the thing is out. I mean, I've gone into movies I was pretty sure I'd hate and found I really liked them, so who knows, Disney might manage to surprise me.

[Reaper Lyn]

I just had to ask, is anyone here NOT that excited about Tangled?

I'm not super excited about Tangled either, tbh. Then again, I've only seen one trailer (the first one, I assume), and it didn't really stand out to me. I've never especially cared for Disney princess movies, so I assumed Tangled would be about par for the course. It could always end up surprisingly good, I suppose, but somehow I doubt it's going deviate from the Disney norm that much.

On a somewhat related note: what about claymation/stop motion animation? Any fans? Wallace and Gromit is my childhood; I just love them. And I watched a claymation movie called Mary and Max a few days ago, and it was just... wow. I didn't know anything about it before I went into it, and it really surprised me by being very, very funny, clever, and also extremely touching. Definitely worth a watch.

[mgrant]

On a somewhat related note: what about claymation/stop motion animation? Any fans? Wallace and Gromit is my childhood; I just love them. And I watched a claymation movie called Mary and Max a few days ago, and it was just... wow. I didn't know anything about it before I went into it, and it really surprised me by being very, very funny, clever, and also extremely touching. Definitely worth a watch.

I love claymation, as silly as it can look at times. I still remember watching Gumby growing up when Nickelodeon used to run it in the afternoons. I always thought it was a bit silly but it did a lot of things you didn't see in other shows.

Granted some claymation (like the Kraken in the original Clash of the Titans doesn't hold up in the intervening years, but many of times it's a wonderfully whimsical way to tell a story.

[tredlow]

Speaking of Stop Motion, here's Koghead and Meatus. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2mMVXTikK0)

[Giant Tope]

old but still fun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGK9fL61kzQ)

[Rather Dashing]

old but still fun (http://goo.gl/aRKND)

[swedish_jedi]

old but still fun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGK9fL61kzQ)

Awesome!

old but still fun (http://goo.gl/aRKND)

Even more awsome!!

New but old: Destino by Salvador Dalí & Walt Disney (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8ueJO1sln8)

[Leplaya]

Which one do you think is better, 3D animation or 2D animation? (Mind you, we're talking about animated films and series, not video games) I've always perfered 2D animation over CG. Although the only place that I saw CG was put to good use for animation wise is Pixar. CG these days have been a pain in the neck for me(The only thing that is worth looking forward to is The goon. Which I wish I knew its release date).

I just had to ask, is anyone here NOT that excited about Tangled? I feel like the only one, in fact I feel like it's being too overrated before it even comes out, and that will ruin it for me. :(
Your not the only one Pecan. I'm not interested in seeing it whatsoever. And even though it may be a musical, the marketing on tangled is just pathetic. I've always hated how Disney marketed its animated films, and Disney's marketing is the reason why Princess and the frog didnt do so well because it was up against the Shitfest Avatar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djLYxj0exio). They are marketing this thing like its a Fairy tale parody like the crap that comes out of Dreamwork's animation like Shrek. I bet the people are going to get ripped off when they find out that Tangled is a musical compared to a parody of a fairy tale. But maybe this would be more likable if it was 2D.


old but still fun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGK9fL61kzQ) I saw this at an animation festival. I cant believe this guy is now working for Pixar(He did a 2D short for Toy Story 3 called Day and Night). Boy's Night out and Day and night had a Tex Avery thing going on in there.

And speaking on terms of the golden age one of my favorites (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qzkofwt4_c). And a bonus goes that its on the angle on Bob Clampett's cartoons.

[Comrade Pants]

I just saw an obscure old Soviet animation that I absolutely loved. It was called Songs of the Years of Fire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHik_pF0Ur8) and it's a collection of Soviet revolutionary songs. It's like a Soviet Fantasia.

[PecanBlue]

Your not the only one Pecan. I'm not interested in seeing it whatsoever. And even though it may be a musical, the marketing on tangled is just pathetic. I've always hated how Disney marketed its animated films, and Disney's marketing is the reason why Princess and the frog didnt do so well because it was up against the Shitfest Avatar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djLYxj0exio). They are marketing this thing like its a Fairy tale parody like the crap that comes out of Dreamwork's animation like Shrek. I bet the people are going to get ripped off when they find out that Tangled is a musical compared to a parody of a fairy tale. But maybe this would be more likable if it was 2D.

Take a look at the japanese trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gViLn6HjmW8) for Tangled, and notice how different of an approach they take to make the movie seem appealing, compared to the kiddy, comedy-based ads we get here. (though I'm honestly still not very interested, it still looks generic as hell) I think a lot of advertising, especially for animated movies, tends to be terrible. Dreamworks' ads seem ok, because their movies usually are just like how their ads make them seem. I am excluding Megamind, of course, which had some of the worst advertising ever, (no real in-depth look at the general plot WITHOUT giving important bits away, boring posters of characters just standing there making the dreaded "Dreamworks face," one ad even made it seem like it had fart jokes when it had absolutely none) but it was a genuinely good movie, so that made the advertising especially terrible and misleading.

I think it's because they're trying to get a broader audience, whereas in places like Japan, they don't have the same worries as us because there's a general attitude to animation over there besides being for kids. They even changed the title of the movie itself over here so it would appeal more to boys. (notice how in Japan it's still "Rapunzel") Why they're not confident enough that their movie will sell well to advertise as is is beyond me, but I guess I don't blame them for resorting to ads that they think will draw in more people. After all, Shrek 2 is still the (unfortunately) highest grossing domestic animated film of all time.

[DoctorCello]

Take a look at the japanese trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gViLn6HjmW8) for Tangled, and notice how different of an approach they take to make the movie seem appealing, compared to the kiddy, comedy-based ads we get here. (though I'm honestly still not very interested, it still looks generic as hell) I think a lot of advertising, especially for animated movies, tends to be terrible. Dreamworks' ads seem ok, because their movies usually are just like how their ads make them seem. I am excluding Megamind, of course, which had some of the worst advertising ever, (no real in-depth look at the general plot WITHOUT giving important bits away, boring posters of characters just standing there making the dreaded "Dreamworks face," one ad even made it seem like it had fart jokes when it had absolutely none) but it was a genuinely good movie, so that made the advertising especially terrible and misleading.

I think it's because they're trying to get a broader audience, whereas in places like Japan, they don't have the same worries as us because there's a general attitude to animation over there besides being for kids. They even changed the title of the movie itself over here so it would appeal more to boys. (notice how in Japan it's still "Rapunzel") Why they're not confident enough that their movie will sell well to advertise as is is beyond me, but I guess I don't blame them for resorting to ads that they think will draw in more people. After all, Shrek 2 is still the (unfortunately) highest grossing domestic animated film of all time.

It's also because the Japanese don't share the same sense of humor that we have, so Disney can't market their movies the same way. Because the Japanese haven't become as jaded as the American public has about ~*~*the magic of disney*~*~, Disney appeals to their sentimental side in their marketing.

[Giant Tope]

I saw this at an animation festival. I cant believe this guy is now working for Pixar(He did a 2D short for Toy Story 3 called Day and Night). Boy's Night out and Day and night had a Tex Avery thing going on in there.

Uhm... How do you see Tex Avery in there?

And speaking on terms of the golden age one of my favorites (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qzkofwt4_c). And a bonus goes that its on the angle on Bob Clampett's cartoons.

Uhm... How do you see Bob Clampett in there?

[Giant Tope]

D-DDOUBLE POST

I really don't see the appeal of Sym Bionic Titan. I gave it the benefit of the doubt when first watching it because everyone seems to like it, but I just found everything to be so stiff and just plain boring to look at. I really don't like the character designs at all. I know what they were trying to go for and I can see it, but it just falls flat on its face. I can't really relate to any of the characters who are just so over the top I just plain don't like them.

It brings the same regurgitated story topics to the table in a groan inducing manner. I dunno. I just really really don't like it.

[PecanBlue]

I feel exactly the same way except with Danny Phantom.

[tredlow]

I feel exactly the same way but with Ben 10. Though I actually liked the design and animation of Sym-bionic Titan, while the writing is okay.

Also, I only prefer 3D more than 2D for big budget features, and that's only a little bit more than 2D. The thing is, if you can't deliver Pixar/Dreamworks quality of 3D, and can only deliver those stiff, ugly, Max Steel 3D, then don't bother.

[Gohaku]

Anyone here bother to watch that cartoon called, 'The Regular Show'?

[PecanBlue]

I've been meaning to watch it, but I recently just got rid of cable, so I don't really watch TV anymore. Maybe I'll catch a stream of it sometime, but it looks like a fun show.

[Ribs]

Rejected is still the epitome of cinema.

I'm feeling fat, and sassy!

[Giant Tope]

Anyone here bother to watch that cartoon called, 'The Regular Show'?

I've seen the pilot episode way back when. I didn't even realize it got seen through until recently. Which is super trippy because I remember seeing his animation final way back when it first was put on the web.

[tredlow]

Rejected is still the epitome of cinema.

I'm feeling fat, and sassy!

I thought it was just boring, random nonsense until the awesome ending.

[PecanBlue]

Well, I also think it's a little overrated but the point of it was to be that over-the-top and nonsensical, to make the fact that the fictional story behind it implies it was submitted seriously to a family channel, so it's kind of like a surrealist animation where we look at the mentality of who is supposedly animating it. Love the animation of the final sequence of course, and Hertzfeldt's other stuff is pretty neat.

[tredlow]

Well, I also think it's a little overrated but the point of it was to be that over-the-top and nonsensical, to make the fact that the fictional story behind it implies it was submitted seriously to a family channel, so it's kind of like a surrealist animation where we look at the mentality of who is supposedly animating it. Love the animation of the final sequence of course, and Hertzfeldt's other stuff is pretty neat.

Yeah, I also thought of that, but only after the ending. Before the ending, I thought it was just gonna be a series of random stuff to the very end.

Now, what do you guys think of Mo-Cap?

I always hated Mo-Cap in movies, but I don't mind it in videogames. I don't know why.

[PecanBlue]

Oh geez, you just reminded me of this trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBFUAW6jC_M) I saw yesterday, which is HORRENDOUS on all levels, not just animation. Just when I'm over the trauma of Polar Express, lowering my guard thinking CGI animation has finally gotten over the uncanny valley mo-cap, here comes Zemeckis to kick me in the face.

So yeah, don't like it.

[tredlow]

Oh geez, you just reminded me of this trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBFUAW6jC_M) I saw yesterday, which is HORRENDOUS on all levels, not just animation. Just when I'm over the trauma of Polar Express, lowering my guard thinking CGI animation has finally gotten over the uncanny valley mo-cap, here comes Zemeckis to kick me in the face.

So yeah, don't like it.

The thing about Robert Zemeckis is that he always make movies with awesome premises (Monster House) and wasted it with Mo-Cap. I'll be watching this on DVD, because though I like the idea, I don't wanna fully support it.

Also, you heard the rumor that they'll be making a Roger Rabbit sequel in, wait for it... MO CAP?

Oh, and the totally confirmed, not-a-rumor fact that they're doing a remake of Yellow Submarine, in MO CAP?!

What's next? Back To The Future Part IV: Mo-Cap Mcfly?!

I actually hope that Telltale's BTTF game is NOT Mo-Cap, except for Doc Brown's hand movements...

[Rather Dashing]

...forgiving the idea that Monster House has a "great premise"(really?), can you seriously say that "Mars Needs Moms" has anything approaching a premise that, at the very least, doesn't induce vomiting?

[tredlow]

...forgiving the idea that Monster House has a "great premise"(really?), can you seriously say that "Mars Needs Moms" has anything approaching a premise that, at the very least, doesn't induce vomiting?

Nah, but it's interesting, kinda, in a self-aware way. I always liked these sci-fi big budget animated films that don't take themselves too seriously.

Anyway, you don't like Monster House? Why not? Aside from the Mo-cap, I thought it was pretty original for an animated film, and it's really fun.

[Leplaya]

Zemeckis should just go back to doing live-action films, because motion capture is nothing but crapture. All it ever does is something that IS NOT considered as animation. Besides that it makes matters worst that he's remaking the yellow submarine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDtNiwE-Ubk0). And yeah he's using motion capture for that too. :mad: It makes me even more pissed that the bone movie is going to be Motion capture over 2D animation. Way to go Zemeckis and James Cameron. Thanks a whole lot for ruining Bone. We would have gotten the most coolest 2D animated film that would have been based on a graphic novel to make way for more animated films with Fantasy and adventure, BUT NOOO. Your cummy motion crapture success had to make it as a CG motion-CRAPTURE film, over 2D hand-drawn animation. Bone calls for 2D, I dont care if it works for CG.

Trellow, it aint no lie. Yellow Submarine remake is for real too.
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/2010/01/12/2010-01-12_beatles_cast_in_.html

I actually heard somewhere that Zemeckis is doing the Roger Rabbit sequel as the original film(live-action/2D). But then again, I just dont give a damn about the animation industry anymore because its not worth looking at. Besides anyone seen the trailer For this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbFz--GCkOM&). It makes me pissed that Disney's marketing is being screwed up yet again because THIS is going up against the final part of the deathly hallows.

[Darkblader]

I actually heard about the new winnie the pooh film, but Disney missed a moment of awesome for not getting the sherman brothers for the music of it.

[Rather Dashing]

Besides anyone seen the trailer For this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbFz--GCkOM&). It makes me pissed that Disney's marketing is being screwed up yet again because THIS is going up against the final part of the deathly hallows.
Wait.

Are you telling me that the vast majority of the audience for a Winnie the Pooh flick directly intersects with the audience for a Harry Potter film, and that them running side-by-side is a detriment to Pooh?

Because while Harry Potter is hardly adult, it's at least soundly in the preteen segment, whereas Pooh is more for parents and those in the under 10 set.

[Giant Tope]

Zemeckis should just go back to doing live-action films, because motion capture is nothing but crapture.

...

Wha-?

Motion capture is just fine for certain applications, so don't take a shit on Mo-cap. It's great for a lot of video games or other applications such as movies like Avatar and LoTR where you have real life actors and need a human-like figure that isn't quite human that still needs to blend into the live action environment. Though many times, the mo-cap needs to be slightly tweaked, but that' doesn't disregard it's useful properties.

The problem is all the improper use of Mo-Cap and the view that it's an easy solution to replace animators.

[mgrant]

...Please don't use Avatar as an example of good motion capture, it's really not. I'm a bit dumbfounded that movies getting praised for it's special effects to be honest. Yes, the color pallet is amazing and the creatures are uniquely designed, but the CGI was nowhere near as good as the CGI in Lord of the Rings which managed to achieve a truly visceral quality in it's special effects. The Nav'i to me sat in that weird plasticine uncanny valley the characters in that terribly awful Beowulf movie sat in. Granted that movie made every Anglo-Saxonist froth at the mouth in nerd rage (myself included, even as I was laughing at Agenlina Jolie's Baywatch pontoon lips attempting to be threatening), but that's beside the point.

[Giant Tope]

...I didn't say Avatar was good. I was just saying that it was a situation where Mo-Cap was okay to use. Chill bro.

[tredlow]

Trellow, it aint no lie. Yellow Submarine remake is for real too.
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/2010/01/12/2010-01-12_beatles_cast_in_.html


Yeah, I know. That's what I said. Real shame too, considering that it could have been done the style of that Beatles Rock Band intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSLLxRmR3nY), which I thought was cool.

...
Motion capture is just fine for certain applications, so don't take a shit on Mo-cap. It's great for a lot of video games or other applications such as movies like Avatar and LoTR where you have real life actors and need a human-like figure that isn't quite human that still needs to blend into the live action environment.

This I agree. The part about it being good for videogames, I mean. About Lord Of The Rings and Avatar, I'm not sure. Didn't pay attention to the mo-cap quality.

Oh, also; New Mo-cap Tintin movie. Go.

[mgrant]

...I didn't say Avatar was good. I was just saying that it was a situation where Mo-Cap was okay to use. Chill bro.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as overly aggressive, I just have a lot built up irritation about Avatar...

[tredlow]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as overly aggressive, I just have a lot built up irritation about Avatar...

I thought it was meh. Not bad, not good, just meh.

I hate the fandom, though.

[Comrade Pants]

I hate the fandom, though.

Ugh. Who doesn't? They're like furries, but somehow worse.

[PecanBlue]

I didn't think Avatar was a bad movie by any means, (though the plot is basically 100% predictable and overused, I mean there's not a single thing that surprised me and/or that I didn't already know would happen) but what I dislike most about its existence is that everyone acts like it's this new cutting-edge thing in special effects and basically cinematography in general, and that James Cameron is a ~*~GENIUS~*~ for making it. Also people act like the designs of the Nav'i are something spectacular and unique when I've seen a lot of better alien/furry thing designs on Deviantart for goodness' sake.

I just don't get it.

Also will go see Tangled in a little bit and will probably review it in the rate movies thread.

[Secret Fawful]

Ugh. Who doesn't? They're like furries, but somehow worse.

Outside of yiffing, I don't get the problem with furries. And yiffing isn't even that big of a deal, as there's Rule 34 of EVERYTHING anyway, so I don't see how one is worse than the other. You can choose to tell a story through the eyes of anything you want, as long as it's a good story. I think the only problem with furries is that they're rarely used the right way; as meaningful, relatable characters. The only instances of that I can think of off the top of my head are Fullmetal Alchemist, Thundercats, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, or Urusei Yatsura (although that's a sitcom). Making them relatable is a great challenge, but shows like FMA and Thundercats have proven it's possible.

Also, according to this board, relatable isn't a word.

...Please don't use Avatar as an example of good motion capture, it's really not. I'm a bit dumbfounded that movies getting praised for it's special effects to be honest. Yes, the color pallet is amazing and the creatures are uniquely designed, but the CGI was nowhere near as good as the CGI in Lord of the Rings which managed to achieve a truly visceral quality in it's special effects. The Nav'i to me sat in that weird plasticine uncanny valley the characters in that terribly awful Beowulf movie sat in.

I didn't think Avatar was groundbreaking, but I thought the effects were as far from uncanny valley as possible. Especially in the eyes, as they didn't seem to have that "dead eyes" effect a lot of 3D and mo-cap tends to have. And that's a big plus for anything using Mo-Cap - and something Beowulf didn't have.

And as PecanBlue pointed out, Avatar's creatures are NOT uniquely designed. They're just a bit new for American cinema, granted...oh wait, Star Wars(remember the Ewoks and that elephant head dude?) and Thundercats did furries first...and the creatures in the original SW trilogy are way more uniquely designed than the ones in Avatar and still look just as real...at least in my perception.

[tredlow]

Not all furries agree with the term 'yiff', actually, although this might just be a form of self-justification. And, while I hate the word 'furry' and people who call themselves 'furries', I never knew where the line stands between cartoon characters being 'furries' and 'anthropomorphic animal characters'. Is it based on how much human it is, or whether it's drawn in western style or anime style, or is it based on how sexualized it is? Is Daffy Duck a furry (feathery?)? Is Yogi Bear? Is Sam?

[Secret Fawful]

Good Lord man, that Sam and Max and Merrie Melodies business is completely depraved and immoral. I won't expose my children to such disgusting wretched furry filth. Just joking.

Anyhoo, I looked on Urbandictionary for a definition of the word furry (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=furry), and apparently it refers to the fanbase of anthropomorphic characters or ANY anthropomorphic animal. It refers by name to Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny as examples, so therefore I would conclude by their definitions that any talking animal or animal that walks on two legs would be a furry. So, in other words, there is no damn problem with furries in any shape or form and there never has been and 4chan, the ass-shit pit nitwits of the internet who to my knowledge started the furry term and the furries are evil bullshit, can suck a dick for their asinine stupidity. Anyone who has an inate hatred of a class of fictional creature that Bugs Bunny or The Pink Panther or Snagglepuss would belong to is a bloody fool.

[Giant Tope]

I could have sworn furries called themselves such.

[tredlow]

Well, according to Urban Dictionary, there's no definite definition to the word 'furry'. Personally, I don't agree with the definition that everyone who likes Looney Tunes, Merrie Melodies, etc. are furries. I think that 'furries' are people who like them mainly because they're anthropomorphic animals.

Now, furry fetishists are a different story.

Frankly, I just don't like the word itself, and the people who call themselves that, since using that word feels like liking funny animal characters makes you different than everyone else.

Anyway, here's what hardcore Avatar fans are like. (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/weekend-web/avatar-forums.php) I have no problem with people who like Avatar, but I hate those who are obsessed by it. Also, it's really not that original. Yeah, James Cameron wrote it years ago, but after Pocahontas and Atlantis came out, why couldn't he just change the script?

[Secret Fawful]

Actually, I agree with you. I don't particularly like the term, and frankly it's an unnecessary term that shouldn't be there but it is there. By it's definition every anthro is a furry, but I hate it because of how derogatory it is. It's slowly turning anthropomorphic characters into some sort of taboo. And frankly, the furry culture isn't helping matters much. I'm not a fan of people who are obsessed with anthro characters. I can definitely see why people dislike that culture. People can like what they want, but becoming obsessed with it to the point of dressing yourself in cat ears, fur, etc. is disturbing and does nothing to aid the image or reputation of anthropomorphic characters themselves.

[tredlow]

Actually, I agree with you. I don't particularly like the term, and frankly it's an unnecessary term that shouldn't be there but it is there. By it's definition every anthro is a furry, but I hate it because of how derogatory it is. It's slowly turning anthropomorphic characters into some sort of taboo. And frankly, the furry culture isn't helping matters much. I'm not a fan of people who are obsessed with anthro characters. I can definitely see why people dislike that culture. People can like what they want, but becoming obsessed with it to the point of dressing yourself in cat ears, fur, etc. is disturbing and does nothing to aid the image or reputation of anthropomorphic characters themselves.

Yeah, because by that definition, everyone who likes Mickey Mouse are weird perverts.

Also, this reminds me of a hilarious quote from The Penal Zone;
"You wouldn't believe how many fetishes there are that involve me and Sam"

[Comrade Pants]

See, what Fawful's talking about? Those are worse than the plague. If I had a choice between going to a Furry Convention or hanging out in a zombie infested Detroit, I'd pick Detroit. Furries, in essence, ruin furries. Yes, that makes sense. No, I won't explain it.



Related only tangentially to this thread - When can I get a George Romero directed animated zombie series? I want one.

[Rather Dashing]

I'm pretty sure that, at the very least, colloquial usage of the word "furry" denotes people that fetishize anthropomorphic animals.

[tredlow]

See, what Fawful's talking about? Those are worse than the plague. If I had a choice between going to a Furry Convention or hanging out in a zombie infested Detroit, I'd pick Detroit. Furries, in essence, ruin furries. Yes, that makes sense. No, I won't explain it.

You say that as if a zombie infested Detroit is a bad place to be.

I'd go there. With a shotgun.

Also, have you seen this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_MG8R7pjiw)

[Comrade Pants]

Also, have you seen this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_MG8R7pjiw)

Not yet.

[Leplaya]

Are you telling me that the vast majority of the audience for a Winnie the Pooh flick directly intersects with the audience for a Harry Potter film, and that them running side-by-side is a detriment to Pooh? I can tell you this Rather Dashing, that Disney's marketing doesnt give a damn about 2D animation seeing how this sounds like they are messing things up yet again. I think I might go see tangled, I'll make a video about my thoughts on it if I ever see it that is.

Yeah, I know. That's what I said. Real shame too, considering that it could have been done the style of that Beatles Rock Band intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSLLxRmR3nY) That art style reminds me of the Gorillaz music videos. It would be cool to see a new beatle cartoon with that art style


As for Tintin with motion capture. I can tell you that I have lost all my respect for Speilberg and the project completely. Out of all the things that he had to make TinTin with, why the hell did it have to be motion capture? Speilberg could have saved 2D animation with Tintin....Now I'm going to pretend that this along with motion captured Fone Bone never even happened. And its about time I find people who dislike Avatar. That movie isnt even worth my time or anyone's time. I'll said this before and I'll say it again. Avatar is Ferngully and Pocahontas with Sci-fi crap.


Also, have you seen this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_MG8R7pjiw)Anyone know if this is going to be given the theatrical treatment? This looks great, it better not get onto Direct-to-DVD like El superbeasto did.

Speaking of which. Has anyone seen The Haunted World of El Superbeasto? I havent watched it in awhile, but I remember being mixed on it.

[Darkblader]

I couldnt sit through el superbeasto...I should have mentioned that I hate ren and stimpy. And el superbeasto CLEARLY looks like the spumco guys did this.

[Secret Fawful]

Out of all the things that he had to make TinTin with, why the hell did it have to be motion capture? Speilberg could have saved 2D animation with Tintin....

What? No he couldn't have. He never planned to make Tintin with 2D animation; Spielberg was originally going to make it live action until Peter Jackson convinced him to use mo-cap.

[Darkblader]

What? No he couldn't have. He never planned to make Tintin with 2D animation; Spielberg was originally going to make it live action until Peter Jackson convinced him to use mo-cap.I think live-action would have been well decent, even though I'm not much of a fan of motion capture. But I do like the use of it for golum.

[tredlow]

I couldnt sit through el superbeasto...I should have mentioned that I hate ren and stimpy. And el superbeasto CLEARLY looks like the spumco guys did this.

Nope, it's not Spumco. It has nothing to do with Spumco. It doesn't even resemble Spumco; the animation looks more like Spongebob, which is more detailed than most cartoons, but not as detailed as Spumco cartoons, while the humor felt more like Drawn Together rather than Ren and Stimpy.

Frankly, I liked the animation of El Superbeasto, though I hated the writing. While some jokes are funny, there was no character development and no climax. It's a shame, considering that I actually like the original comic.

Well, here's hoping that future animated zombie films are better.

Also, the Tintin movie would have been better using non-mo-cap 3D. I'd say 2D, but it's been done.

[DoctorCello]

That art style reminds me of the Gorillaz music videos. It would be cool to see a new beatle cartoon with that art style.

That's because they're by the same animation studio, Passion Pictures. :3

And its about time I find people who dislike Avatar. That movie isnt even worth my time or anyone's time. I'll said this before and I'll say it again. Avatar is Ferngully and Pocahontas with Sci-fi crap.

Really? The vast majority of my friends didn't like Avatar.

[Leplaya]

I need to watch El Superbeasto again before judging what I gotta say about it on here, anyways Zombie didnt do the script for the beasto film did he? That could be a reason why it sounds like it didnt make any sense. And Doctor Cello I know a lot of people who praise Avatar, it just makes twilight look like a hero.

[tredlow]

I need to watch El Superbeasto again before judging what I gotta say about it on here, anyways Zombie didnt do the script for the beasto film did he? That could be a reason why it sounds like it didnt make any sense. And Doctor Cello I know a lot of people who praise Avatar, it just makes twilight look like a hero.

If you don't like the first few minutes of it, don't bother. The whole movie's like that, basically. Also, Zombie wrote it, as well as the comic book it was based on.

[PecanBlue]

WELP! (http://www.cartoonbrew.com/bad-ideas/jail-inmates-tortured-with-bob-zemeckis-animation.html)

[tredlow]

I discovered Ralph Bakshi's animated, R-rated, sci-fi noir cartoon 'Spicy City' on youtube. It was okay. Some dialogue sucks.

[PecanBlue]

I wonder, if people hadn't meddled with Bakshi's idea of Cool World, would it not have been a total disaster? I mean when I heard it was supposed to be an R-rated horror, I was all "well, that would have made more sense."

[Rather Dashing]

Are you seriously directly linking creative worth with financial success?

[PecanBlue]

Huh? I'm making a hypothetical thought: "if they had gone through with how Bakshi wanted the movie, would it not have been a terrible movie?" I'm not talking about disaster as in how much money it made, because I have no idea how much money it made.

[tredlow]

Actually, I thought that the final idea; a man got sucked into the world he imagined, would have made a pretty good Ralph Bakshi film. But then it came out, and it kinda sucked.

What's Ralph Bakshi up to these days in animation?

[PecanBlue]

PS. this is a good article (http://www.avclub.com/articles/my-year-of-flops-case-file-44-cool-world-1992,14798/) that details the history of how Bakshi's idea of Cool World was slowly destroyed.

Basinger told Bakshi that she'd really like to be able to show the film to sick children in hospitals.
oh

[tredlow]

PS. this is a good article (http://www.avclub.com/articles/my-year-of-flops-case-file-44-cool-world-1992,14798/) that details the history of how Bakshi's idea of Cool World was slowly destroyed.

Basinger told Bakshi that she'd really like to be able to show the film to sick children in hospitals.
oh

That is just wrong. But somehow, it makes sense.

I watched Cool World as a kid, and I love it. About 10 years later, a learned, wise me found a DVD release of it, and hated it. I hated it, and I hated younger me for ever liking it. I respected Gabriel Byrne for apparently running away from the studio before they could finish the last scene (if you recall, the last scene basically had him being replaced by a cartoon superhero). This is probably not true, but I like to think it is.

When I watched Who Framed Roger Rabbit when I was a kid, however, I was terrified of it. Seeing Doc Brown murdering a cartoon shoe made me question my faith to Back To The Future. Then, about 5 years later, I managed to see it again (I forgot how. TV, I think) And I started loving it. Then finally, years later, I bought a copy of the DVD, and loved it even more.

Also, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Ld1mC2obk).

And this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTVP193QV8M). And be sure to watch every episode.

[PecanBlue]

Also, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Ld1mC2obk).

I don't get it, is this a softcore porno? A horror? A terrible Scary-Movie-like comedy? ALL OF THE ABOVE? What is being marketed here?

[Rather Dashing]

I don't get it, is this a softcore porno? A horror? A terrible Scary-Movie-like comedy? ALL OF THE ABOVE? What is being marketed here?
It's a really bad softcore porno. I'm not sure if it was supposed to be a spoof but because it is a porno it probably was. The toon(singular) is very badly done and has very little screen time. It also has terrible pacing for a straight-up porn.

[Leplaya]

WELP! (http://www.cartoonbrew.com/bad-ideas/jail-inmates-tortured-with-bob-zemeckis-animation.html)XD. This makes my day. :D

What's Ralph Bakshi up to these days in animation?As far as I know, Ralph Bakshi was going to do a film called Last Days Of Coney Island{Although I heard he's doing it independently}. Nothing new of the film has come out of it, but I was on the bakshi site and Bakshi stated that he wanted Charles Adler project. I think Charles Adler and Bakshi were good friends since I noticed that he's in a few of Bakshi's works. I heard somewhere that he's doing a script for a sequel to his film Wizards along with a live-action remake of Fire and Ice with the director behind Pulp Fiction. Tarinto was his name right?


PS. this is a good article (http://www.avclub.com/articles/my-year-of-flops-case-file-44-cool-world-1992,14798/) that details the history of how Bakshi's idea of Cool World was slowly destroyed.Cool world just proves to me that you shouldn't do your animation in the business, they can change it without your permission into something it isnt. I know a few people who arent Bakshi fans feel very sorry for Ralph and how Cool world got butchered to death. If I was in charge of the studio, I would allow Bakshi to do it his way. I may dislike Cool world, but Roger Rabbit is far better than Cool world in my own view. Roger has a story, Cool world doesnt and its like an acid trip that tries to make sense but in real life it doesn't. A live-action/2D R rated film is something that is in need of a serious calling since all of these live-action/CG films are getting out of hand(I'm shooting you down you crappy shitmunks!). The only two things good about cool world is the animation and the music of the film.


Also, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Ld1mC2obk).
Damn it. And I thought I got away from that film. I remember seeing that and I was furious about it. They tried to do something different for the hybrids, but they ended up sucking so much that it makes Dora the explorer look like a hero of the animation on how much its sucking these days.Also there's out of Jimmy's head. which in my own view is an insult. To not only Disney, but its the perfect sum of on how cool world was "Roger Rabbit on acid". Funny thing since OFJH was created by a former Disney animator, go figure. :rolleyes:

[Secret Fawful]

Is it sad that I kind of want to see Evil Toons just to see if it ranks up there with the worst movies of all time that I've seen? Although nothing will ever top the badness of The Secret of NIMH 2 for me. That movie is pure shit in a can.

[PecanBlue]

Don't worry, I'm a fan of terrible movies too and I would totally see Evil Toons if I had the chance. I only saw little bits and pieces of NIMH 2 but I was like 8 or something and didn't realize what was so bad about it, maybe I should see it in its entirety now. Is it at least a good terrible movie? As in "this is so bad it's funny" or just "this is so bad I want to kill myself/fall asleep."

[Darkblader]

Wait...Was out of jimmy's head that live-action show on CN?

[tredlow]

Blegh... Out Of Jimmy's Head left a bad taste in my brain.

Also, I've heard about Last Days of Coney Island. If I recall correctly, it was about a hooker or something?

[Rather Dashing]

Coney Island makes me immediately think of the Webber Phantom of the Opera sequel.

[tredlow]

You know what's fun? Laughing at old Hannah-Barbera superhero cartoons. Especially Birdman and The Galaxy Trio.

[Secret Fawful]

"this is so bad I want to kill myself/fall asleep."

NIMH 2 is this. Definitely this. It will make you stare at your screen in slack-jawed horror, unable to believe your eyes, just the from the first time you see the animation. It looks like a gorram Zelda CD-i game made in Flash! If you've seen the first movie don't taint your impression of it with this shit unless you really are a glutton for punishment. Wait until January when the Nostalgia Critic reviews it or something if you want to see it, but don't watch it in it's entirety. It will make you want to drop a bomb on humanity.

I watched it with a friend who also enjoys riffing bad movies, and we were at a loss to find ways to riff on the piece of awful dog shit. It was so bad it literally depleted our humor meters. I challenge anybody to find a movie I would rate lower than this eldritch abomination.

[PecanBlue]

Hey guys, check this out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re9GTAkzQu4)

[Comrade Pants]

Mr Ando of the Woods. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqzt3T4R38c)
Don't listen to Dashing, he stole it from me first! /rage

[Rather Dashing]

But friend, don't you know the saying?

The more you develop--STRIKE MR. ANDO, STRIKE!

[Comrade Pants]

The fish song will always be the best part.

[Rather Dashing]

Doesn't he know the saying? The more you sing--STRIKE MR. ANDO, STRIKE!

[PecanBlue]

Apparently, this is going to be a (so far only 1 season) series on Cartoon Network (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dHyB1kRDNc&feature=recentf), not Adult Swim, (as if that would make it better) Cartoon Network.

I wonder if it'll feel the same as my pre-teen days of stupidly browsing Newgrounds, nightmares included?

[Leplaya]

I remember hearing ALOT of bad things about Nimh 2, and even from the people who worked on the first film surprisingly. The people who worked on the film who saw it said it was a bit too dark compared to the original feature. Weird that Don bluth was asked to do a sequel to this, but despite being interested in doing so he was busy with Anastasia.


And I saw Tangled (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-0mJQy6Z9Q).

[Hayley the Hedgie]

I am primarily fond of 80s and 90s Western and Japanese animated shows and films and practically love everything that Pixar's ever made.

[tredlow]

I just saw Tangled, and guess what? I don't hate it.

I mean, it delivered some laughs, I like how Rapunzel is actually NOT a helpless damsel in distress, and while the songs tend to annoy a bit, I'd prefer it over gratuitous dance scenes that Dreamworks apparently think is essential. Though, in the end, it's nothing groundbreaking.

Also, did any of you watch the Community Christmas Special? I loved it.

[Rather Dashing]

I mean, it delivered some laughs, I like how Rapunzel is actually NOT a helpless damsel in distress
By my count they haven't done a damsel in distress story since the early 50s, but maybe I'm missing one or two between then and the mid-60s. The next proper female lead in the "Disney Princess" canon came about in 1989 with Ariel, and no character in the "Princess" line since has been a damsel in distress.

[tredlow]

By my count they haven't done a damsel in distress story since the early 50s, but maybe I'm missing one or two between then and the mid-60s. The next proper female lead in the "Disney Princess" canon came about in 1989 with Ariel, and no character in the "Princess" line since has been a damsel in distress.

Huh. Good point. Most princess movies I remember are Sleeping Beauty and Snow White, etc. I guess I forgot about Mulan (though, does that count as a princess movie?) I don't remember anything about Pocahontas other than the talking tree and the raccoon.

By the way, does the 'princess' title refer to any female lead who meet a prince, or does it have to be royalty? Because I can only think of Aurora, Jasmine and Ariel who are of royal blood (and Rapunzel, I guess), and I don't know if Aladdin is a princess movie or not.

[Rather Dashing]

According to Disney's marketing and product departments, their "Disney Princess" canon includes Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Bell, Jasmine, Pocahantas, Mulan, Tiana, and Rapunzel. The only one that wasn't born into or marry into royalty in that list is Mulan.

[tredlow]

According to Disney's marketing and product departments, their "Disney Princess" canon includes Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Bell, Jasmine, Pocahantas, Mulan, Tiana, and Rapunzel. The only one that wasn't born into or marry into royalty in that list is Mulan.

Oh, right, Giselle from Enchanted wasn't a Disney Princess because they would have to pay Amy Adams for her likeness. But still, I just realized that most Disney princesses are married to royalty instead of being born to it. Also, Snow White's stepmother is called "The Queen", though I'm not sure if she's royalty.

Anyway, I liked Tangled more than Megamind. Neither are perfect, but Tangled is closer.

Now, a question that just popped into my head: Do you think Disney's Snow White movie aged well?

[PecanBlue]

and while the songs tend to annoy a bit, I'd prefer it over gratuitous dance scenes that Dreamworks apparently think is essential.

It's not just Dreamworks that does these, Pixar is also not immune to them. I'm guessing it has something to do with ending the movie for kids, (I heard something about giving the animators "free will" after they finish a movie, also) and I think I could forgive it the most in Megamind, where it was very short, made sense to the character and situation, and didn't avoid a solid ending.

I would have enjoyed Tangled more had it not been for the extremely forced "princess" plot. All movies have their "predictabilities" to them, but you kind of go into a movie thinking "this plot/this specific character is going to go from point A to B to C to G" and Tangled was the one animated movie this year that I felt rebelled less against people's expectations and surprised me the least.

[tredlow]

It's not just Dreamworks that does these, Pixar is also not immune to them. I'm guessing it has something to do with ending the movie for kids, (I heard something about giving the animators "free will" after they finish a movie, also) and I think I could forgive it the most in Megamind, where it was very short, made sense to the character and situation, and didn't avoid a solid ending.

I agree. I was shocked that Toy Story 3 did this.

[PecanBlue]

Well, it didn't exactly bother me, Buzz's Flamenco made sense to the character as well, because of the eccentric Spanish persona, the ending, eh... I don't know, I think I can forgive it because it was in the credits and like I said, a cute ending for kids. (I'm sure they might have needed it after all that horrific drama) Maybe in Toy Story 2 it was more annoying but I don't know. I think when dance sequences really bother me are when they are so horribly unnecessary, dragged out and/or unfitting where it's obvious they just want to market a music artist, such as both Shrek 1 and 2 and Madagascar with that stupid, obnoxious King Julian. (I don't even want to talk about Shark Tale and Monster vs. Aliens, Jesus Christ...) Also Despicable Me had an especially annoying one too, with a fart joke included. :|

[tredlow]

I forget, did Kung Fu Panda have one?

[Leplaya]

If my memory serves me right, Kung fu panda ends off with poe and master shun fu meditating. And poe then asks him if he wants some food. Surprisingly enough that is one of the few movies from Dreamworks that doesnt end in a "dance number" ending.

Is it just me, or is fart jokes being used more often in cartoons then it was in the past?