Schwarzenegger v. EMA

[Brainiac]

Well, today was Election Day here in the States. It was also the day that arguments in Schwarzenegger v. EMA were heard before the Supreme Court. The transcripts have now been posted online via Joystiq and Scribd (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/02/transcripts-from-supreme-courts-violent-game-case-available-now/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fjoystiq+%28Joyst iq%29) (among others). Going over them, I think I can say the state of gaming in the States is going to be just fine. It looks like those who predicted the only reason the Supreme Court took this case was to basically spell it out for the states that they need to quit wasting money on this idiocy were probably right.

[Elvenmonk]

I hope they're right. It sometimes get shocking with what our juidicial system's verdict goes with. Including the Supreme Court.

[Remolay]

I kept saying four letters that I just want to yell out to people who say that M rated games are being sold to minors. E. S. R. B. Some stores wont even sell M rated games to 17 year olds despite the fact that the cases say 17+ no 18+

18+ would be AO, A lot of stores don't carry AO.
So, the Supreme Court are going to say the same thing I have since I was 12 then?

[Rather Dashing]

Everyone should read the transcript (http://www.scribd.com/doc/40744855/Schwarzenegger-v-EMA). It's somewhat long, but EXTREMELY entertaining. Seriously, it's HILARIOUS.

Justice Scalia: But is -- is that -- are -- are we to sit day by day to decide what else will be made an exception from the First Amendment? Why -- why is this particular exception okay, but the other ones that I just suggested are not okay?

MR. MORAZZINI:Well, Justice Scalia, I would like to highlight the fact that the material at issue in Ginsberg was not obscene.Under no existing definition of obscenity was the partial nudity that this Court allowed States to regulate minors' access to -

JUSTICE ALITO:Well, I think what Justice Scalia wants to know is what James Madison thought about video games. (Laughter.)

JUSTICE ALITO: Did he enjoy them?

JUSTICE SCALIA:No, I want to know what James Madison thought about violence.Was there any indication that anybody thought, when the First Amendment was adopted, that there -- there was an exception to it for -- for speech regarding violence? Anybody?

[lombre]

Thanks for that transcript, Rather Dashing. I laughed out loud several times while reading that thing.

California don't got a leg to stand on.

[Elvenmonk]

I kept saying four letters that I just want to yell out to people who say that M rated games are being sold to minors. E. S. R. B. Some stores wont even sell M rated games to 17 year olds despite the fact that the cases say 17+ no 18+

18+ would be AO, A lot of stores don't carry AO.
So, the Supreme Court are going to say the same thing I have since I was 12 then?

Funny story. I go Gamestop to go buy a copy of Dead Rising Chop 'Till You Drop and they card me and almost not sell me the game (just turned 18) [process took like 10 minutes], but some little kid comes in and gets the 360 version of the game they don't card him and are about to sell him the game after like a minute before his mom comes by. She then asks if the game is suitable for children under the age of 17, pointing to the ESRB lable. The same guy who almost refused to sell me DR:CTYD was like "oh yeah, it's perfect for kids of all ages. They got that because of a little blood."
Had my ride not been ready to leave I would've told the mom the truth.

Now for another story! I was like 16 and my mom drove me to Gamestop and I went to pick up a copy of The Suffering: Ties That Bind and I told my mom I was buying an M game so she'd need to come into the store to pay for it. The cashier wouldn't stop going on about how the game isn't fit for someone under the age of 17, about how it was so violent, and the nudity, and the drugs! My mom didn't care and I said,"Look, I'm 16 I'm a year under what's reccomended. In a year I'll be just as immature watching the same violent movies, 'sampling' (did air quotes by the way) adult sites, and laughing over my friend's drug problems. I think it's safe to say I've seen much worse then this game has." The clerk really wouldn't let go now. After 30 minutes of this (and the store being packed) my mom said,"Just give me the damn game." when we get back to the car mom told me she's never taking me back to this Gamestop.

Point of the second story? None, I just hate telling the two stories solo.

[Brainiac]

The audio is now online (http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_audio_detail.aspx?argument=08-1448).

[Ribs]

I'm for because I'm weird like that.

[Alcoremortis]

That transcript was pretty hilarious. Though by the end of the first part, I was feeling a little sorry for Mr. Morazzini...

[GaryCXJk]

For a moment there I thought you guys were talking about the MTV European Music Awards 2010.

[Brainiac]

Surprising no one, the Supreme Court sided with the EMA (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111300-Supreme-Court-Rules-in-Favor-of-Videogames). The final vote was 7 - 2, with the dissenters being Justices Thomas and Breyer. The full decision, with both dissenting and concurring opinions, can be found as a PDF on SupremeCourt.gov (http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/08-1448.pdf).

[tredlow]

This reminds me of how my dad lets me play Leisure Suit Larry 7 when I was about 8 or something. Of course, back then I didn't know how adventure games (or sex) work, so I kept wondering what's so great about walking around a ship full of beautiful women when there are no monsters to fight.

Anyway, I don't know why I shared that with you people, but there you have it.

[Vainamoinen]

Guys, I'm with Dashing here, the transcript/recordings of those sessions are better than David E. Kelley could ever write. I love that stuff.

Justice Ginsburg:
Is there any kind of opinion that the seller can get to know which games can be sold to minors and which ones can't?

Mr. Morazzini:
Not that I'm aware of, Justice Ginsburg.

Justice Ginsburg:
You should consider creating such a one. You might call it the California office of censorship.

[Rather Dashing]

Took you eight months to get around to agreeing with me on it, but hey, I'll take an agreement any day! =P

[divisionten]

I read it way back when, Dashing, and I felt like I was reading a Colbert transcript. ^____^

[Vainamoinen]

Listen to it, God almighty, I just almost peed my pants laughing.

JUSTICE KAGAN: Do you think Mortal Kombat
is prohibited by this statute?

MR. MORAZZINI: I believe it's a candidate,
Your Honor, but I haven't played the game and been
exposed to it sufficiently to judge for myself.

JUSTICE KAGAN: It's a candidate, meaning,
you know, yes, a reasonable jury could find that Mortal
Kombat -- which is, you know, an iconic game, which I'm
sure half of the clerks who work for us spent
considerable amounts of time in their adolescence
playing.

(Laughter.)

MR. MORAZZINI: Justice Kagan -*

JUSTICE SCALIA: I don't know what she's
talking about.

[tredlow]

JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR: Would a video game that portrayed a Vulcan as opposed to a human being, being maimed and tortured, would that be covered by the act?

MR. MORAZZINI: No, it wouldn't, Your Honor, because the act is only directed towards the range of options that are able to be inflicted on a human being.


You... do know what Vulcans look like, right?

Torture this:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHNgSGR02yYCQek37GKP_aEMUzYY_52 dw1K-Yx7_Rt2yCPTiZ9ww

But not this:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRgiVRWLF-4SRD3IKfdzO1AL1HRahw_2mQvKW2qWAmvBm5moxr

[Rather Dashing]

Even if they didn't look like humans but with pointy ears, the idea that torture and maiming of a non-human sentient is okay is fairly disturbing.

[tredlow]

Even if they didn't look like humans but with pointy ears, the idea that torture and maiming of a non-human sentient is okay is fairly disturbing.

Yeah. Our culture really needs to prepare for when we come in contact with intelligent extraterrestrial life.

No, I'm not joking. It might sound ridiculous, but just imagine this reasoning if the world had already been populated by intelligent non-humanoid beings. Imagine being in a world populated by people of a different species, who believe that you're allowed to be tortured simply because your species is different than theirs.

That was pretty much how I felt when watching District 9.

[Rather Dashing]

How I felt while watching District 9 was "...what time is it? Huh, okay.

...

What time is it?

Only five minutes later? Really?

Okay...

....alright, now my clock is fucking with me, that was SO more than a minute!"

[tredlow]

How I felt while watching District 9 was "...what time is it? Huh, okay.

...

What time is it?

Only five minutes later? Really?

Okay...

....alright, now my clock is fucking with me, that was SO more than a minute!"

Yeah, it wasn't a perfect movie. It was kind of boring and it apparently couldn't decide whether it's a mockumentary or a standard film. But, then again, I understand what it was trying to say, and it got me thinking.

[Secret Fawful]

How I felt while watching District 9 was "...what time is it? Huh, okay.

...

What time is it?

Only five minutes later? Really?

Okay...

....alright, now my clock is fucking with me, that was SO more than a minute!"

Oh, hey, that's how I felt when watching Citizen Kane.

[tredlow]

Oh, hey, that's how I felt when watching Citizen Kane.

OMG WAT.

No, wait. I never watched Citizen Kane, so I don't know how to feel about that statement. Though I always hate it when I ask people what their favorite movies are, and they say 'Citizen Kane', and I ask why, and they'll give me some generic response like 'Because it's one of the best films ever'. It's kind of a douchey, pretentious thing to do.

[Ribs]

If you're in the US, steam has a fitting tribute on the front page of the store.

[Alcoremortis]

Oh, hey, that's how I felt when watching Citizen Kane.

Well, you got your favorite gif out of it, so it wasn't a TOTAL waste of time for you.

[Secret Fawful]

Well, you got your favorite gif out of it, so it wasn't a TOTAL waste of time for you.

Oh, I wouldn't call it a waste of time at all. It was time well spent, even if I had a hard time caring about anything in the story. Also, that's not my favorite GIF.

[Alcoremortis]

Oh, I wouldn't call it a waste of time at all. It was time well spent, even if I had a hard time caring about anything in the story. Also, that's not my favorite GIF.

Well...most used? On this forum? That's black and white? (I'll keep on getting more and more specific until it's the only option that satisfies the conditions).

[Rather Dashing]

OMG WAT.

No, wait. I never watched Citizen Kane, so I don't know how to feel about that statement. Though I always hate it when I ask people what their favorite movies are, and they say 'Citizen Kane', and I ask why, and they'll give me some generic response like 'Because it's one of the best films ever'.
Generally, people say that because the AFI called it America's greatest film a couple times over now. They parrot the organization's verdict without understanding the actual reasoning behind it. The film is excellent for a variety of reasons, many of which are technical, and many of which are just not understood by most people, it's a film historian thing. The cinematography was certainly innovative and inspired a great deal of films after it, with advancements in focus, shading, composition, special effects, etc. Welles had full creative control over the project, which was surprising at that time, and he had little to no executive meddling. It's also simply an incredibly well-told story of the life of a great man, with all the regrets, all the loneliness, all the passion that comes with it, a great man in death as viewed through those who knew him best. Roger Ebert has an excellent critical commentary track for the film, and watching it with that will provide you with a great deal of insight as to why major film buffs, rather than just "people who like to go to the movies", consider Citizen Kane to be one of America's greatest films.

[Secret Fawful]

Well...most used? On this forum? That's black and white? (I'll keep on getting more and more specific until it's the only option that satisfies the conditions).
I guess.

Generally, people say that because the AFI called it America's greatest film a couple times over now. They parrot the organization's verdict without understanding the actual reasoning behind it. The film is excellent for a variety of reasons, many of which are technical, and many of which are just not understood by most people, it's a film historian thing. The cinematography was certainly innovative and inspired a great deal of films after it, with advancements in focus, shading, composition, special effects, etc. Welles had full creative control over the project, which was surprising at that time, and he had little to no executive meddling. It's also simply an incredibly well-told story of the life of a great man, with all the regrets, all the loneliness, all the passion that comes with it, a great man in death as viewed through those who knew him best. Roger Ebert has an excellent critical commentary track for the film, and watching it with that will provide you with a great deal of insight as to why major film buffs, rather than just "people who like to go to the movies", consider Citizen Kane to be one of America's greatest films.

Where can I find this track? I would definitely be interested in these aspects of the film, just so I can know what makes it great.

[JedExodus]

Where can I find this track? I would definitely be interested in these aspects of the film, just so I can know what makes it great.

Stuff that, enjoy the film for what you take away from it, not what you're told to take away from it. I am very dedicated to my ignorance.

[Secret Fawful]

Stuff that, enjoy the film for what you take away from it, not what you're told to take away from it. I am very dedicated to my ignorance.

But then I won't enjoy it at all!

[Rather Dashing]

Where can I find this track? I would definitely be interested in these aspects of the film, just so I can know what makes it great.
I know it's on the two-disc special edition of the film, and the upcoming "Ultimate Collector's" edition on Blu-Ray. I'm not sure about any other DVDs, you'd have to check the special features to see if Ebert's commentary is listed.

[Chyron8472]

If you're in the US, steam has a fitting tribute on the front page of the store.

http://i.imgur.com/epmN0.png

[Chyron8472]

For some reason, the transcript only displays the first few pages for me on some webpages. I'm not sure why.

The full thing is here though: http://www.scribd.com/doc/40744855/Schwarzenegger-v-EMA

edit: Ahaha... hahaha... okay, I'm going to read though this thing and post my favorite funny quotes. They start out even at the beginning.


MR. MORAZZINI: [...] So this morning, California asks this Court to adopt a rule of law that permits States to restrict minors' ability to purchase deviant, violent video games that the legislature has determined can be harmful to the development -

JUSTICE SCALIA: What's a deviant -- a deviant, violent video game? As opposed to what? A normal violent video game?

MR. MORAZZINI: Yes, Your Honor. Deviant would be departing from established norms.

JUSTICE SCALIA: There are established norms of violence?

MR. MORAZZINI: Well, I think if we look back -

JUSTICE SCALIA: Some of the Grimm's fairy tales are quite grim, to tell you the truth.

MR. MORAZZINI: Agreed, Your Honor. But the level of violence -

JUSTICE SCALIA: Are they okay? Are you going to ban them, too?

MR. MORAZZINI: Not at all, Your Honor.

JUSTICE GINSBURG: What's the difference? I mean, if you are supposing a category of violent materials dangerous to children, then how do you cut it off at video games? What about films? What about comic books? Grimm's fairy tales? Why are video games special? Or does your principle extend to all deviant, violent material in whatever form?



:D This is so great. I love it.