Avril Lavigne, may have changed for the worse?

[doodo!]

(New single)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE7dhplqLjs&feature=recentf

"It may be the case ,that to judge her element of what may be perceived as her current quality , you would have to be committed to what would statistically be perceived as her original passage of success of sound."

Comments about how "bad" she has always been may been seen as irrelevant comments by another.

I "discovered" Avril Lavigne several years ago, with her first album. ":)"

As I've possibly perceived "the influence " on my perception of reality her music has had , I shall possibly respond: "Lyrics that were heart felt, had weight to them. Feeling and passion behind her words that meant something, that provoked a heart felt connection to the listener. I wanted to hear her voice, hear what she had to say."

As perceived, as possibly recalled, she always meant what she said and convinced others that she meant it. I may have respected, admired her as a passionate performer who may have convinced others that she meant what she sang.

The 3rd album looks "different". Off the bat you may perceive that the music, performer has greatly changed as the entire "expression, vibe,' the album cover gives off is "different" than the first two albums.

The album starts with the track GirlFriend, which is debate-ably dramatically "different" than her first two albums...

Then I Can Do Better follows....

Anyways, when in the mood, I perceive , may have possibly perceived, that I actually enjoy a few of the tracks on the 3rd album.

Such as,
Runaway
When You're Gone
Innocence
Keep Holding On

All and all, I'm beginning to believe that I may have acted in a way that may be now considered a over reaction. Personally, I do not listen to all the tracks often, but there are a few that "connect" to me.

I am hoping for what I consider her "original" connection drawn to what I may perceive as self, in the 4th album.


GOT TO GET TO WORK!

[Falanca]

Avril Lavigne is just another "singer" who has seen the true face of "money" and made her "fortune" by selling her "soul". Now she's doomed to "suck". The end.

[JedExodus]

Doodo, Girlfriend et al was released like 3 years ago or something. Get with the times my man!

[Krohn]

And at least she still wrote her songs instead of just singing what someone else handed to her.
You just have to consider that on the album is at least one part where she couldn't hold back laughter any longer...so you know exactly how serious she took her work ;)

[GaryCXJk]

Where are her rock chick type songs? What happened to them?

[Irishmile]

Doodo do you like any male fronted bands? You seem to only talk about female singers.

[GaryCXJk]

Doodo do you like any male fronted bands? You seem to only talk about female singers.

But dudes ain't got BOOBS, and if they do, it's pretty gross.

[Origami]

^
It's the Zaandam guy again.

No, what Irishmile meant is that Doodo only seems to complain about female singers.

[Hayden]

Where are her rock chick type songs? What happened to them?

She went from being involved in music, to being involved in the music industry. She's now been bought, and has most likely been pressured into changing. The rock genre (or pop rock or punk rock) doesn't sell as well anymore, so she's been made to change into another generic, girly pop star. That's what happens when artists become successful.

[doodo!]

Doodo do you like any male fronted bands? You seem to only talk about female singers.

Well, I think I like music with some diversity and emotion/ spirit. I think a female voice with metal, rock, punk, gives me that diversity. I always felt like a males voice was typically just too raspy for a song that may have required more depth and feeling.

I think the hard music may be masculine and then the females voice may have to be feminine in my opinion, making what I would consider a good balance.

[stylerz]

i like this song.finally she is back.

[Irishmile]

Well, I think I like music with some diversity and emotion/ spirit. I think a female voice with metal, rock, punk, gives me that diversity. I always felt like a males voice was typically just too raspy for a song that may have required more depth and feeling.

I think the hard music may be masculine and then the females voice may have to be feminine in my opinion, making what I would consider a good balance.

Well in that case I would suggest each and everyone of the following.. Because they can ALL be really REALLY heavy without sacrificing melody..

Geddy Lee from RUSH (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7DFsBcVMDA)
Robert Plant from Led Zeppelin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9TGj2jrJk8)
Tim Vanhamel from MILLIONAIRE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwzPrdXpZxg)
Billy Corgan - smashing pumpkins (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrivjzw0RlI)
MUSE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJg8U0QMXEQ)
RADIOHEAD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzjUjNPYzLg)
PIXIES (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5cAagJDA6I)


But if you INSIST on only digging on female fronted bands.... The Breeders rock harder on a bad day than Avril on her best... Sure Kim Deal is not turning any heads with her looks but I will be damned if her talent and voice doesnt make her the sexiest woman who ever strummed a guitar.
The Breeders (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AsId-qVIb4)

Whats that other female fronted bads that I will not laugh at if you mention?
Republica (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3BmxjhmN20&feature=fvw)
The Raincoats (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcuwR_FPrAg)
The Slits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyXGblps64M)
Garbage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpRiSb_Ir-s)
Veruca Salt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC9AUR-iTo0)
Rilo Kiley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keKdyN16qUs)
POE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_lhspmjCJ4)

Just to name a few.... as you can see I am sort of into music that may be a little old... but its stuff I feel gets ripped off by people like Avril.. BLEGH!!

And yes.... I am sort of a ROCK SNOB... also it may be interesting to note I have seen most of those bands live and have met many of them.... But that was in my crazy teens and 20s.. I used to go to a TON of shows .....

[ShaggE]

Speaking of Geddy Lee and female rock bands... it took me a LONG time to accept that Geddy was a man. To this day, I have to consciously remind myself every time Rush comes on.

[Irishmile]

Yeah Geddy is definitely one of a kind...

Well I suppose DIO has a similar quality.... But DIO sounds more manly than Geddy and DIO was definitely METAL.. and an obvious influence to Jack Black... he goes off on his DIO copying Metal singer character ALOT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lvs2FzF64o

Actually here is Jack singing about and with DIO (beware of swears kids) I love that Meatloaf is Jack's dad in this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmU7FshBwgg

[ShaggE]

Much like how some folks need to replay Deus Ex whenever it's mentioned, I need to listen to Tenacious D whenever it's mentioned. Damn you! :p

[Hayden]

Speaking of Geddy Lee and female rock bands... it took me a LONG time to accept that Geddy was a man. To this day, I have to consciously remind myself every time Rush comes on.

I never really think of his singing voice as a woman's voice. Sure, he sings high enough to deafen dogs, but the quality of his voice isn't really womanly.

Or perhaps it's just because I picture him in my head when I hear him sing (and he certainly doesn't look like a woman :D).

Also, I'm surprised at how many Rush fans there are on this forum. That's at least 7 or 8 users I've come across here who are fans of Rush.

[Irishmile]

RUSH is pretty popular with nerds... and well... I do not want to point any fingers... but some of us are pretty nerdy....

[doodo!]

Thanks for sharing all those videos. I paused and had interest in a few, I've seen that Dio video before. What a classic!

As for all those bands that were posted,I'm not sure how to reply to all of that. Some of that stuff is really old though and I had a hard time getting into any of the bands based on one song. I've been through it too many times, you hear one song that's ok and soon after everything else you hear from the band is flat, generic...

[Hayden]

RUSH is pretty popular with nerds... and well... I do not want to point any fingers... but some of us are pretty nerdy....

Agreed. I don't think any of us here would be offended by being called that.

And I think that the whole prog genre is pretty popular with nerds, and seeing as how Rush loved to go with all of the mythical/fantasy/sci-fi themes back on their earlier albums, it's pretty obvious that they're gonna attract a lot of 'em/us.

[tredlow]

Is Avril Lavigne that homeless guy?

EDIT: No, wait. That was Ted Williams, sorry.

[doodo!]

LOL, I did not mean to offend, I like lots of music. I was born in 87 so what's old to me is like the 90s...

[Irishmile]

I was born in 1980.. and was a teenager in the 90's so I have a lot of nostalgia for 90's music...

[doodo!]

I was born in 1980.. and was a teenager in the 90's so I have a lot of nostalgia for 90's music...

The 90s had a lot of what I would believe I percieve great music.:)

I do not believe that I am aware why I posted something that has a possibly negative connatation. I'm confused, I'm going to state this as a human would...

I have nothing wrong with 90s music, I like a lot of 90s bands. I don't understand why I said anything negative, or anything that could possibly be taken negatively about 90s music.

Give that, the 90s still had a lot of crappy music. :D Not to infere what you've shard was of any variation. I labeled it, only once intentionally, and I don't know why I called it old as I believe I may believe that personally has negative connations. I never...

Anyways, rock on every one.

[doodo!]

Well, tomorrow the new album is released...
Here's the new music video.
http://www.avrillavigne.com/us/news/watch-avrils-what-hell-video-right-now

[doodo!]

Welcome back Avril, I'll excuse your junvenile songs that are destructive and meaningless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQmvsgU6Avs

Damn, songs like these are what made me a fan. I can relate to this, thank you Avril Lavigne for using your talents once again to make real music that people can relate to, music for the soul. Thank you for being a strong vocalist with meaningful lyrics, beautiful acoustics...thank you. LOL I'm not gay, not sure what the closet thing is all about.I take a different meaning.

Some more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dl9VA0kZtE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUIs9kZDnB8

Anyways, some good stuff here. She even came back and made her alice song better. Nice Avril, good job on this.

WHOA back stronger than EVER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuftS9pkW7U

I'm feeling the love brothers and sisters! SOUL MUSIC! This is Avril Lavigne!

[doodo!]

*sighs* She's finally back at soul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSXPh-UbQWI
Beautiful, sing it with soul! Yes, she didn't originally sing it but she sang again on her new album and damn she's singing it well. This is a older video in the link.

[abby_lynn]

avril has come back to us there is a god and he loves the world she is back and better and sexier then ever

[doodo!]

I have the new album but rarely listen to it. I'm sort of a metal head now.

[ShaggE]

Even though I can't stand Avril, personality or music, she knocked it out of the park with Pat Benatar on Oprah recently. (Yes, I watch Oprah sometimes... lol)

Clip. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ragF68z-osU)

That's not even mentioning Pat herself, who's voice is stronger than it ever was. Amazing performance.

[doodo!]

When I listened to that softer stuff, I loved pat benatar and Avril Lavigne. I got to admit , when I heard her 2 years ago or so live I was blown away. She sounded even better, way better...

I honestly think they've both done way better on their own.

[guitarsareboring]

I must admit, I have a soft spot for Avril's voice, particularly in the chorus of What the Hell and I'm With You.

The product placement in the What the Hell video astounds me, the way she sprays her own brand of perfume and the guy comes straight over. Plus the random shot of the Vaio laptop.

I agree with most of Irishmile's recommendations...

I'd like to add the following female-fronted-ness..

The Joy Formidable
Sleater-Kinney
Sky Larkin
Pretty Girls Make Graves
Yeah Yeah Yeahs (the first album)

[doodo!]

Avril had a amazing voice...

Try

Innonence

Spelled right, though...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hBgeqtcsGs&feature=fvst

I used to love her for her passion, her voice, her heart was in it. I loved her, I am starved for such affectionate people, such comittment, such power, such passion. I live for those sort of feelings, those sort of people. She stood out to me as a individual, a unique performer, now she's just another pop artist.

[doodo!]

Honest to God, how can you say that her older stuff is better than most the shit we have today? I remember her when she wasn't mainstream. I will always remember her like a child...OOOOH BABY BABY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8QYxmpuyxg&feature=relmfu

What is wrong with this world!? I mean come on!? How is this not more meaningful, better than today's garbage? COME ON!?

Seriously!?

I mean seriously...how is this on the same level as all those other horrible bands the world compares it to? Seriously? Come on...she was so amazing when she was independent. I loved her, she's lost a lot of her quality now...

But seriously...

What's your problems, lol...even the early 90s aren't as good with their weightless POP dance/ Techno stuff. This is real music, I listen to this between my metal tracks...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuZB2O6orV0

[ShaggE]

^ In a nutshell: opinions and personal taste.

[Comrade Pants]

Avril Lavigne? That skank never recorded anything worth listening to, IMO.

[doodo!]

Avril Lavigne? That skank never recorded anything worth listening to, IMO.

You be a disrespecting Avril Lavigne!? HA! What knows you about Avril Lavigne, have you even been subjected to that much of her? What knows you? Hah! Be gone hater! Be gone to the troll hut and village you hail from!

What is troll? Troll is troll! What you know about Avril Lavigne?

[Scnew]

I'm with Pants in that I can't imagine being both an adult and an Avril Lavigne fan.

[doodo!]

I'm with Pants in that I can't imagine being both an adult and an Avril Lavigne fan.

But do you really even know her music/ her? People just form opinions, and complain and whine. I started listening to Avril back in 2003, 8 years ago. She started off as a small time, independent band. The first CD I got was special to me. By the time of the second CD more CDS were in stores, even easier to find. If I remember right the first CD came off line, for me...

By the time of the 3rd, she was completely mainstream...

I highly doubt you've given Avril the time of day at any moment or been a true judge of what she's been valued for as a artist through out her career.

I'm sure you heard a few songs, seen a photos, if even, and then threw her in a basket with the rest of the bands that you don't like from that time frame...


I've been a fan since 2003, on and off, mind you. I know how fans think, what they think about her. I know what ma(d-/+ kes) her special to her fans. I doubt you've been a true comprehensioner / in tune with what her successes were based on. What her fans responded to, which has been run down over the years but she still has fans...

Over all she maintains her value, worth to a very large fan base, that I'm part of...

So, I ask you, what know you about her? HMMM?

[Scnew]

I know that all of the Avril Lavigne songs I've encountered that have been put out over the years for radio/TV play have been awful and not inspired me to dig any deeper.

[doodo!]

I know that all of the Avril Lavigne songs I've encountered that have been put out over the years for radio/TV play have been awful and not inspired me to dig any deeper.

Ah, ok...So,you form a subjective opinion and then tell me that you can't imagine being a adult, which covers most people at one point or another, enjoying Avril Lavigne music...

What a complicated argument you got there if not a weightless one.


This is why I don't like talking to human beings...

How can it be awful, she has a signature success..she has a career, which has declined slightly but how, in what multi-verse universe is she awful?

You're using your own standards to base a argument on...when this is about her changing for the worse....and yet you clearly have no comprehension of what made her attractive to begin with...

So, where is your argument?:rolleyes:

Why are we talking? We are apples to oranges and we can not substitute the same quality of argument because we don't have the same comprehension of value and what makes her music valuable...so why are you arguing? Why are you acting in the role?

You're argument has sociological barriers, it's flawed, it's not logical...it's not fair, it's not calculated, your making leaps...

If we're not essentially comprehending the same thing, then why waste my time on it? Why waste yours? I can't be bothered my closed minded views and egos where only personal opinions matter and things aren't validated fairly, or with a open mind.


Humans!

[Scnew]

If you are expecting me to have a complex argument as to why I do not like her, you are going to be disappointed. Suffice to say that while she's cute and has a decent voice, her music (at least as far as I've encountered it) is derivative, substance-less teeny pop. Is it the worst thing ever? No. But honestly--do you think "Girlfriend" was written with an audience other then teenaged girls in mind?

[doodo!]

If you are expecting me to have a complex argument as to why I do not like her, you are going to be disappointed. Suffice to say that while she's cute and has a decent voice, her music (at least as far as I've encountered it) is derivative, substance-less teeny pop. Is it the worst thing ever? No. But honestly--do you think "Girlfriend" was written with an audience other then teenaged girls in mind?

Now you're showing both sides of the argument by using compliments to level the field so that you can play ball ...


Yet, we're still not on the same playing field, you never liked her music and yet you're telling me that it sucks just because of your personal experience/ tastes? Why is the concept of being in tune with things, or attracted to certain things so alien to so many people. You don't like it, so it sucks, it stinks? Why have we learned to express ourselves in this way!?

And you end with a question? A question!?

FASCINATING!


Some of her songs may be geared towards a certain audience from a sociological perspective, and their for by design but the actual experience, the actual value of these experiences we have in life are not essentially experienced how people believe they will , must be, how they will be. This social/ metal and psychological conditioning completes our psyches, that language piece in our brains that describes what we're seeing, what we can expect to see, etc etc...

Where do we draw the line? And why are opinions like the touch of GOD!? Why do we all have opinions as if by genetic default? Don't we see what's right in front of our faces!? That it's a personality thing or a social condition!?

Are we that intolerant or un-open minded that we can't reserve our initial judge-ments or opinions and interpret things out of curousity, the value and significance of those things, rather than in shear disinterest disown something entirely or say it's stupid or sucks!?

People just limit their selves and they don't develop further comprehension skills and everyone fits into the molds of culture or society, conditioning, what's acceptable!


This world is molded, cookie cutter! It's programming. I can listen to Barbie Girl if I damn want to...and I could date a awesome hot punk/ goth chick if I wanted to, if not just in my dreams...:(

RAGHGHHGHGWAHWAHWHAHWAHWHAWAHWHAHWAHW What am I on about again>?

[Comrade Pants]

Hey, doodo!; have you ever listened to your writing through a text to speech synthesizer (http://www2.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php)? It's very enlightening. (http://www2.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php)

[Alcoremortis]

Hey, doodo!; have you ever listened to your writing through a text to speech synthesizer (http://www2.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php)? It's very enlightening. (http://www2.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php)

Now, that's just going to encourage him to write more noise posts. Which I suppose is rather entertaining...

[Comrade Pants]

Now, that's just going to encourage him to write more noise posts. Which I suppose is rather entertaining...

It gives us more ammo to make it sound like GLaDOS is "having fun." Besides, it's better than listening to Avril Lavigne!!! (FULL CIRCLE)

[Alcoremortis]

It gives us more ammo to make it sound like GLaDOS is "having fun."

It does, I'll give it that. Already Doodo's musings and the Hi everyone! thread have produced...interesting results.

[Comrade Pants]

I now say we stop this exchange before Guru or the shippers arrive.

[Alcoremortis]

I concur.

[doodo!]

I have no idea what you two think you're on about...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrOlIladAM8

I don't care. None of you get it. This has far more emotion and value to it than most other chick singers of her time. She was truly something special before the man reprogrammed her. She was truly something special. Her lyrics are all meaningful for the first two albums. Her music had a message, purpose.

And if you ever saw her old interviews or old studio recordings maybe you'd understand...

[Hayden]

This is why I don't like talking to human beings...

Try the alternative (http://cleverbot.com/), then.

How can it be awful, she has a signature success..

Success really isn't correspondent to talent or quality in the music industry these days. I'm not necessarily referring to Avril, it's just that I find this statement somewhat flawed.

You're argument has sociological barriers, it's flawed, it's not logical...it's not fair, it's not calculated, your making leaps...

These need to be switched. Sorry, I just couldn't let that go by unmentioned.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrOlIladAM8

She sounds quite nasally and strained on this performance. Just a personal observation. And no, I'm not saying this to be a troll or to rag on Avril. I actually don't have much of a problem with her as a person or artist (I do intensely dislike "Girlfried", though); I'm just pointing out that this was not the ideal performance to link to if you are trying to reverse people's negative opinions of Miss Lavigne.

[doodo!]

It's ok, my mind is finally slipping through the grates below as all is washed away from the stormy night down into the sewers...

[Hayden]

It's ok, my mind is finally slipping through the grates below as all is washed away from the stormy night down into the sewers...

Firstly, I fail to see how this is relevant to the topic at hand; we're discussing Avril Lavigne (mostly).

Secondly, in response to what you're actually saying, it probably wouldn't be the case if you weren't constantly telling yourself this. I know you're probably going through some sort of struggle at the moment, but you're only enhancing the severity of your situation by constantly convincing yourself that you're completely down and out (which is the basic gist that I'm getting from your recent posts). I know I can't put myself in your shoes, but surely you'd be better off by adopting a different mindset; your current one can't be healthy.