Ep4 crash (formerly "It's getting worse")

[dr_debil]

seems like the programmers are making progress... :D in episode 4 i can't even see the intro. it crashes right after pushing the launch button...

episode 1 works without any problems... 2,3,4 don't. why the hell did you modify the engine???

THIS SUCKS!!!:mad:

[Emily]

Hi,

I split this into a new thread because it's not clear to me if this is the same problem as in the thread you originally posted it in or not. It can be really hard for us to help when people post about different problems in the same thread. ;)

A few questions for you:

1) What EXACTLY happens when you press the Launch button? Does it just crash to desktop? Do you see an error message? (If so, what does it say?) When you press ctrl-alt-del and look at the processes running, is Sam & Max one of them?

2) What are your system specs?

3) What problems did you have with episodes 2 and 3? Memory violation errors? Random crashes?

Thanks.

[dr_debil]

wow extremely fast answer. i'm really impressed. :)

the error messages i get are the access violation errors. Error:Access violation at 0x00650505 (tried to read from 0x1A33D786),program terminated... in case of episode 4.

In episode 2 i got this error after playing some time. after getting it, i couldn't start the game anymore without getting the error except when i was deleting the savegames.

In episode 3 the error occurs right after the intro.

In episode 4 right after pressing the launch button.

Hardware: Athlon Venice 3000+, NVidia Geforce 6800 (AGP), 1024MB DDR, ASUS A8V Mainboard, Soundblaster Audigy.

I tried to run the games under Windows XP SP2 and Windows 2000 SP4
No success! Only episode 1 is running...

[Welshy]

Hey guess what...im back :D

...yeh its occured again, doh!! Im beginning to think its my machine so im just gonna go and invade my brothers house this time round and enjoy it, crash free, instead of having to restart every few minutes.

[Emily]

dr_debil - when exactly did you get the error? Had you pressed the LAUNCH GAME button, or did it crash on its own while the "retrieving key" message was visible?

Sorry if it seems nitpicky, but a few of us here just experienced an issue with a different game that may or may not be related.

EDIT: Just noticed you said "launch button" above, so I think you answered my question already. :o

Im beginning to think its my machine so im just gonna go and invade my brothers house this time round and enjoy it, crash free, instead of having to restart every few minutes.

Well it's definitely not JUST your machine, but if you can play it on your brother's without the crashes, that's better than nothing.

This time, when did you get the error message? It's always been a recurring, throughout the game thing for you, right?

We are still doing our best to get to the bottom of this, guys!

[Welshy]

Yeh its still recurring throughout the entire game in this episode as well by the looks of things. Thanks for the quick response as usual...you probably seen me coming right? :p

[Emily]

Hey dr_debil - can you please run a DXDiag report and send it to support@telltalegames.com? Mention this thread so we'll know who you are. Thanks.

[Sgt. Chimp]

I'm getting this problem as well with episode 4. As soon as I click Launch Game, I get "Error: Access violation at 0x007500AC (tried to write to 0x1DF9EDC5), program terminated." Compatibility modes do not help.

Episodes 1 and 3 have no problems. (I haven't reinstalled 2 on this machine yet.)

[Emily]

Thanks, as always we're looking into it.

Sgt. Chimp, if you could send over your DxDiag too, that'd be great. Thank you.

[Cone of Tragety]

The laucher starts normally, but after I click "launch game" there's an error dialog about an access violation.

For Ep2, at 0x74FFFF (read 0xCF725A35 (not even in user mode)). There are two instances of "Sam and Max...exe"; the child process is the one that's crashing. A stack trace of the main thread (the one that owns the error window) contains:
Sam and Max - Situation Comedy.exe+0x34ffff
Sam and Max - Situation Comedy.exe+0x35160a
Sam and Max - Situation Comedy.exe+0x35689e
Sam and Max - Situation Comedy.exe+0x3470b9
d3d8.dll!CBaseObject::AddRefImpl+0x1b
d3d8.dll!CCubeSurface::AddRef+0x13
Sam and Max - Situation Comedy.exe+0x347723
Sam and Max - Situation Comedy.exe+0x107db9
Sam and Max - Situation Comedy.exe+0x10b7b2
A small window with a white background is visible beneath the error box.

For Ep4, at 0x7500B4 (read 0x6A817717). As before, there are two S&M processes, with the child crashing. A stack trace of the main thread:
Sam and Max - Abe Lincoln Must Die.exe+0x3500b4
Sam and Max - Abe Lincoln Must Die.exe+0x119399
In this case, it created no windows besides the error dialog.

Episodes 1 & 3 run fine (well, except for excessive memory usage).

This is on an Athlon 2800+, Asus A7N8X-X (nForce 2 based), 1GB of memory, WS2003 SP1, a GeForce 3 Ti 200 with ForceWare 93.71 (6.14.10.9371 internally). I've tried deleting prefs.prop to no avail. I can send dxdiag info if you want, and can use a debugger FWIW.

[Sgt. Chimp]

Heeeeyyyyy!

I just reinstalled S&M episode 2 and got a similar problem to Cone of Tragety [sic].

Error: Access violation at 0x00750002 (tried to read from 0xFFFFFFBB), program terminated. If I attach a debugger, the latter address is 0x0000003F.

Not only that, but I've got several system specs in common. AMD CPU, nForce4-derived motherboard (Shuttle, not Asus), ForceWare 93.71, and Server 2003 SP1.

[Drezic]

Same problem I can't play any episode but the first...

[Cone of Tragety]

Ack, I've misspelled my user name. How embarrassing...:o

I find it quite interesting that Sgt. Chimp and I are both using exactly the same video driver version, plus that Ep2's stack trace includes the Direct3d 8 library, which seem to imply a video driver incompatibility. I'm using 93.71 in particular because it's a modern version that works properly with my old video card and contains the workarounds for Aliens vs Predator.

When I get a minute, I'll try a more recent video driver version.

[Kevin]

How are you getting a stack trace? Attempting to run the game with a debugger active will cause the game to crash....

[Cone of Tragety]

A process can be fully and officially connected to a debugger by calling kernel32!DebugActiveProcess. However, many debuggers can still attach to a process in a reduced functionality "Noninvasive" mode (that's what windbg calls it) which does not officially (according to the OS) involve attaching a debugger. It is still possible to create a stack trace and read memory in this mode.

Specifically, the Sysinterals Process Explorer (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/utilities/ProcessExplorer.mspx) can extract a stack trace from a thread without attaching as a debugger. That's what I used to get the traces I posted.

I realize that the game prevents full debugging as a copy protection measure (as many other titles do). I'm not trying to bypass that protection. I was hoping that a stack trace would be helpful in diagnosing these mysterious crashes. I know they're useful when I'm debugging my own programs.

[Drezic]

I am getting tired of quotations of system specs and questions as to what excactly happens. I have seen these questions answered like a million times and I even send my system specs, on demand, to one of the telltale employers persoanlly; however, I never got a reply. I send an email; I never got a reply.

Is there going to be a new version or is there any sign of a solution? I cannot play episode two three and four and I would really like to.

[Emily]

I send an email; I never got a reply.

We try very hard to reply to all emails that are sent to us. Sometimes I'll send an email about a technical problem over to Kevin or one of the other developers and I'll forget to respond to the person who wrote in to say that I've done this, so if that's what happened in this case, I'm very sorry, it's my fault. Otherwise, it's possible we didn't get your email, or that we did respond and you didn't get our response.

For people having these problems, I really do understand your frustration. You have to understand that we are doing the best we can. The fact that we have not been able to isolate the cause of these problems is not due to lack of effort or caring on our part. There are a lot of moving parts involved and not every error is caused by the same problem, which is why it's important for us to ask for more detail. We really thought that episode 4 would have many of these issues fixed, so the fact that it doesn't means we're back to square one in some respects.

As I've said several times before, anyone who doesn't want to wait for these problems to get figured out (which would be completely understandable) can request their money back and we'll take care of it immediately. I know it's not as good a solution as getting the games to run for you, but frankly it's a better solution than you'd get from a lot of other companies.

[Drezic]

We try very hard to reply to all emails that are sent to us. Sometimes I'll send an email about a technical problem over to Kevin or one of the other developers and I'll forget to respond to the person who wrote in to say that I've done this, so if that's what happened in this case, I'm very sorry, it's my fault. Otherwise, it's possible we didn't get your email, or that we did respond and you didn't get our response.

As I remeber, I received an automated e-mail that you guys received my e-mail. I also send my system specs (private message) to Kevin because he asked me to and I never got a reply. It's not that I don't believe you guys are trying but you keep asking the same questions about system specs and all which comes accross as if you aren't making any progress.

For people having these problems, I really do understand your frustration. You have to understand that we are doing the best we can. The fact that we have not been able to isolate the cause of these problems is not due to lack of effort or caring on our part. There are a lot of moving parts involved and not every error is caused by the same problem, which is why it's important for us to ask for more detail. We really thought that episode 4 would have many of these issues fixed, so the fact that it doesn't means we're back to square one in some respects.

I find it hard to believe that several people with the same problems over several episodes have lots more than one problem. How are you so sure that there are lots more problems? On the other hand; I am not a computer technician, so that might be my mistake.

As I've said several times before, anyone who doesn't want to wait for these problems to get figured out (which would be completely understandable) can request their money back and we'll take care of it immediately. I know it's not as good a solution as getting the games to run for you, but frankly it's a better solution than you'd get from a lot of other companies.

As I said times before, I don't want my money back. And by the way; if software doesn't work I always get my money back (here in Holland at least) and the games that I bought that didn't run properly or had problems running smoothly had downloadable patches available in no time.

I appriciate you people running a forum and an informal style of communicating; that is something other companies do not have. You should not forget that you are a company and if something does not work people will start complaining. Hence, you can keep saying that you're trying but that will not do as long as there are no visible results.

You guys have my blessing and I hope things will work out for the best. After all, it's just a game. Well, maybe not just a game, it's Sam and Max, but still. As I said before, I never expected for Sam and Max 2 to ever be brought to life anyway, so I am very thankful for your work.

[Cone of Tragety]

Apparently, 93.71 IS the latest nVidia video driver. I tried 66.93 but that seemed to have no effect.

I've noticed that both the faulting instruction address and the data address fluctuate, although the instruction address is always near 0x00750000, which is indeed within the S&M binary but does not seem to be a valid code section of the image. I would guess that either an invalid jump into a data section is occuring or the image needs to be decrypted as part of a copyprotection measure and which isn't happening correctly.

[Emily]

You should not forget that you are a company and if something does not work people will start complaining.

Believe me, I know that all too well!

Some of the people who were getting these memory access errors with episodes 2 and 3 aren't getting them anymore with episode 4. That's how I know we're making progress.

Also I'm sorry if my last post came across as me losing it a little. I know it's frustrating for those of you getting the error not to have a solution from us, but it can also be very frustrating for us to have people suggesting that we're not doing enough to track down problems (which in most cases aren't even due to our software!) when you've just put in a twelve hour day doing just that... or in this case, when you've just woken up early on a Saturday to answer support emails. ;)

We really are trying, guys. This stuff keeps me up at night.

[dr_debil]

Yesterday I bought the Vista Business 64Bit-Edition.
One of the first things I did was installing the Sam&Max Episodes.

And now guess what's happening if I try to start anyone of them....
...
...
...

THEY'RE RUNNING!!!!
I can even use my old savegames from Situation Comedy.
HAHAHA

I'm so lucky.
Excuse me now...

Got to play

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Skell454]

If this is any help. I have been unable to get past the S&M splash screen without it completely locking me up and causing a system reboot ever since I upgraded to the latest nVidia drivers (93.71?). This also now happens with all the previous episodes that i've already completed!

[Sgt. Chimp]

Yeah, it really sounds like the 93.71 drivers don't like whatever Telltale is doing with D3D. Something's most likely returning NULL, and the code near 0x750000 isn't handling that case.

[Cone of Tragety]

93.71 does seem to be a common element. However, it didn't help me to go back to old 66.93, so there does seem to be more to the story than that. Perhaps 93.71 included a video bios update (that wouldn't be downgraded with the drivers) that's causing problems?

Skell454, if you're interested, can you try an older driver version to see if S&M goes back to working? If you have System Restore enabled, it can undo the 93.71 installation if it happened recently.

[Emily]

Hey dr_debil - I'm glad the games are working for you in Vista!

Is that the only thing you changed? The rest of your system specs stayed the same?

Also, thanks guys for playing around with the drivers. I wouldn't be surprised if a driver issue contributed to this, so it's helpful that you're experimenting. Tomorrow I'll check and see which drivers I'm using on my work machine, since those seem to be working okay.

[MSUSteve]

As I've said several times before, anyone who doesn't want to wait for these problems to get figured out (which would be completely understandable) can request their money back and we'll take care of it immediately. I know it's not as good a solution as getting the games to run for you, but frankly it's a better solution than you'd get from a lot of other companies.
Who do I contact to get my money back? I've paid for a full season that I can't play at all.

[Emily]

Steve, just send an email to support@telltalegames.com with your order number (or some other info we can use to locate the order, such as the email address you used or your first/last name) and we will take care of the refund right away.

[MSUSteve]

Thanks Emily. I sent an email just now. I plan on re-purchasing once the Episodes work 100% with Vista, but until then, I could use the $34.95 on other things.

[Mizer]

If any of the folks who are having problems with restarts have minidump logs generated from them (c:\windows\minidump - look for files with recent dates), I would be happy to take a look at them if you can upload them. If you have 5 or so from the date(s) that you've been having crashes then this will help narrow the problem down even more.

I have no idea how Vista handles crashes so I probably won't be able to help with anyone running it.

[dr_debil]

hi emily,

no i didn't change anything else on my system.
just the operating system... no crashes anymore now.

nevertheless i have to tell you that i've got performance problems as they're mentionend in others threads with episode 2 and 3. (jerky graphics)

but i'm happy that i can play them at all.

:cool:

[Emily]

I have the 97.73 93.71 drivers on my computer at work (the card is a Geforce 7600) and am not getting a crash, but that doesn't mean the drivers couldn't cause problems with different cards. I'll check it out on my machine at home, and if anyone has better luck with a different driver, let us know.

[tabacco]

I have a 6800 at home with 93.71, and I can run it fine, so I suspect that may not be the problem.

[Emily]

Oh well. Thanks for trying it. :(

[Sgt. Chimp]

Just updated to Server 2003 SP2 on the off chance they improved the compatibility modes. No luck.

[Skell454]

I finally got S&M to work and it was caused by the upgraded to the nvidea 93.71 latest drivers. Apparently nview added a bunch of new user definable settings that i guess just dosn't agree with my system and S&M. After tuning a couple of things down a little it runs fine again!:)

[Sgt. Chimp]

Really? What settings did you tweak?

[Emily]

Yes, let us know which settings!

I'd love to be able to tell people when they write into support with this problem.

[Skell454]

I pretty much set any settings that could be set to "application-controlled" to application-contolled and then I turned off stuff that gave me slower performance but better quality grafics (anisotropic?).

[Cone of Tragety]

In the new nVidia control panel under "Manage 3D settings", I set

Ansiotropic filtering - App. controlled
Antialiasing settings -App. controlled
Conformant texture clamp - Use Hardware
Extension limit -Off
Force mipmaps - None
Hardware acceleration - Single display
Negative LOD bias - Allow
Texture filtering - High performance
Triple buffering - On
Vertical sync - App. controlled

I fiddled with a few of the settings, but in the end, none seemed to have any effect on Eps 2 or 4. :(

Skell454, were any of your settings different than those?

[kenohki2]

I also set my nvidia setting to what you recommended and still no luck. With my system I can play
Ep1: no problem
Ep2: for a bit before crashing or if I use Sam's gun it will crash immediatly
Ep3: can't get past the opening credits
Ep4: Have been able to play without any serious problems that I could see.

so I'm still at the same. Oh well back to waiting for an answer.

Thanks for the idea.

[z-man]

Things are definitely improving, or at least changing randomly :). I'm one of those people desperately sticking with Win2k, which seems to be equivalent to XP with SP1 when it comes to the problems here. Attached is the DxDiag dump. I'll just dump what I've got on the pile in the hope it will be useful:
ep1: works fine
ep2: affected by the crash when loading a game
ep3: crashes after credits at start of opening cutscene (just after the title fades away)
ep4: crashes at start of opening cutscene (probably like ep3, because the credits come afterwards)
ep5: works fine again.
The crash is the well known access violation with seemingly randomly varying hexcodes. Currently, with ep5 working, the system has the 9371 NVidia driver installed; so that alone can't be the cause of the crash. I hate random interference crashes and am glad I'm not the programmer who has to fix this :)

ep3 and ep4 run fine on my second computer with XP SP2, I didn't test the others.

[Emily]

Thanks. As far as I know we didn't change anything significantly between episodes 4 and 5. I do know that some people experiencing an "LP5 unpacking" error with the other episodes suddenly don't have the problem anymore with episode 5. I'm starting to wonder if a windows update or update to virus protection software could be the reason.