Psp2

[Rather Dashing]

The second PSP handheld is expected to be announced at an event on January 27th. The event will be held at 1 AM Eastern Time, 10 PM Pacific Time, 7 AM in Berlin, 6 AM GMT, and everyone else can figure it out themselves.

The device is expected to have dual analog sticks, a back touch screen, and a larger screen than the current PSP. It's also rumored that two versions of the device were being produced in pre-production phases, a "slide-out" and "flat" model. We don't know if one or both will be announced, and whether or not one version of the device has been scrapped indefinitely.

It's held by Sony rather than Sony Computer Entertainment(Sony's game division) specifically, so the press event may go into areas other than Playstation announcements. One major related announcement that is rumored is the actual announcement of the Playstation Phone, a Sony Ericson phone with a slide-out gamepad that runs Android "Gingerbread" 3.0. As far as the leaked information goes, the phone is more or less a normal Android phone with a nicer processor and graphics card and a device-specific "Playstation" app for games and PSN-related actions.

Otherwise, we don't really know much about either device. There are some rumors, but we honestly know very little about the capabilities of either device or(more importantly) what the games line-up will be.

So, what does everybody think? I think we can use this thread to talk about the event when it actually happens.

[mightypiratetm]

The second PSP handheld is expected to be announced at an event on January 27th. The event will be held at 1 AM Eastern Time, 10 PM Pacific Time, 7 AM in Berlin, 6 AM GMT, and everyone else can figure it out themselves.

The device is expected to have dual analog sticks, a back touch screen, and a larger screen than the current PSP. It's also rumored that two versions of the device were being produced in pre-production phases, a "slide-out" and "flat" model. We don't know if one or both will be announced, and whether or not one version of the device has been scrapped indefinitely.

It's held by Sony rather than Sony Computer Entertainment(Sony's game division) specifically, so the press event may go into areas other than Playstation announcements. One major related announcement that is rumored is the actual announcement of the Playstation Phone, a Sony Ericson phone with a slide-out gamepad that runs Android "Gingerbread" 3.0. As far as the leaked information goes, the phone is more or less a normal Android phone with a nicer processor and graphics card and a device-specific "Playstation" app for games and PSN-related actions.

Otherwise, we don't really know much about either device. There are some rumors, but we honestly know very little about the capabilities of either device or(more importantly) what the games line-up will be.

So, what does everybody think? I think we can use this thread to talk about the event when it actually happens.
There is already a thred for the PSP2

[Rather Dashing]

There is already a thread that is focused entirely on the singular rumor of Telltale development on the second PSP device. This event really isn't within that scope, and neither is a more full discussion of the device and its place in the market as a whole.

Also, quoting a large post(the OP, no less, with absolutely no other posts in the thread) and then posting a single sentence is a massive waste of space.

[SHODANFreeman]

Since I'm in the market for an Android phone right now as it is, I'm more than excited about the possibilities the PSP2 will offer.

[Rather Dashing]

Amazing news: Engadget got their hands on a PSP Phone (http://goo.gl/9oq9j) and have been thoroughly testing it. Most importantly? THE GAMEPAD WORKS ON EMULATORS.

[Ribs]

Amazing news: Engadget got their hands on a PSP Phone (http://goo.gl/9oq9j) and have been thoroughly testing it. Most importantly? THE GAMEPAD WORKS ON EMULATORS.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/p9wRJhormOg/0.jpg
YESH! YESH!

[SunnyGuy]

http://cdnmo.coveritlive.com/media/image/201101/phpgqVje6photo4.JPG
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/01/sony-tokyo-event-1358.jpg

I must admit it looks pretty sweet.

[SHODANFreeman]

3DS looks like a cheap piece of junk compared to NGP.

[Falanca]

Great, now that we'll have a portable PS3 that noone will even try to make new games to -since it'll cost the developers a lot and profit them less; we'll see a lot of rehashing of old PS3 titles being ported to PSP2 like apples falling from their branches in a warm spring day, only to realizement of the marketing that people also wouldn't like to buy a portable console just to own the SAME GAMES that they can play IN THEIR HOMES.

TL;DR, PSP2 is a PointlesS Piece'o garbage.

[Triloge]

^ The hell are you talking about? We've had solid facts on this for hours and already it's being called a piece of crap?

A. We don't know what the Next Generation Portable (stop calling this PSP2) will cost to make, but it seems to already have a great launch line-up (at least compared to the PSP).
B. Yes, a lot of these franchises appeared on the PS3. A lot of 3DS games are either ports or franchises that appeared on other Nintendo consoles or handhelds. Get over it. Games take time to make and Sony needs to get their new product out before Nintendo completely takes over the next-gen handheld market, so ports will take less time and show off the things' power at the same time. And let's face it, nobody's going to get an expensive new game machine that only has new IPs. You need something familiar to draw people in.
C. O hai non-sequitur simile.
D. Hideo Kojima is working on a feature where you can play your PS3 games, save, then load your save on NGP and play the same game anywhere you want (saying he wants to show this off at E3). So no, you WON'T be buying the same game again.
I'm not even going to buy this thing, but I hate it when people decide something's going to suck on nearly zero information.

Now the same abysmal battery life as the PSP, that's something to be pissed about.

[Sammy]

A. We don't know what the Next Generation Portable (stop calling this PSP2) .

NGP's the codename, not the official name.

[Fealiks]

Even if I had the money, I'd wait a while to see if I wanted to get one. The first PSP was great per se, but not a lot of good games were released for it.

[DrRocketGenius]

I'd rather have a 3DS, thank you very much.

[LuigiHann]

Very ambitious for a handheld. I think the price is going to be a huge deal here. Normally I'd say there's no way they can price it low enough to be successful, but with Nintendo setting such a high price for the 3DS... if Sony can get the price down to around $299 a lot of gamers will be tempted. If it's $400 or something then I don't see it working.

[DrRocketGenius]

I'm sure I'll eventually end up getting it, but for now I'll be fine with 3DS (as I said already). Maybe when there's a redesign, because I have the original PSP and that thing is freaking huge. This is even bigger.

[Falanca]

^ The hell are you talking about? We've had solid facts on this for hours and already it's being called a piece of crap?

A. We don't know what the Next Generation Portable (stop calling this PSP2) will cost to make, but it seems to already have a great launch line-up (at least compared to the PSP).
B. Yes, a lot of these franchises appeared on the PS3. A lot of 3DS games are either ports or franchises that appeared on other Nintendo consoles or handhelds. Get over it. Games take time to make and Sony needs to get their new product out before Nintendo completely takes over the next-gen handheld market, so ports will take less time and show off the things' power at the same time. And let's face it, nobody's going to get an expensive new game machine that only has new IPs. You need something familiar to draw people in.
C. O hai non-sequitur simile.
D. Hideo Kojima is working on a feature where you can play your PS3 games, save, then load your save on NGP and play the same game anywhere you want (saying he wants to show this off at E3). So no, you WON'T be buying the same game again.
I'm not even going to buy this thing, but I hate it when people decide something's going to suck on nearly zero information.

Now the same abysmal battery life as the PSP, that's something to be pissed about.

I don't like the idea. It's downright stupid. And time will tell if I'm right or not.

It's not about how much it'll cost to them to make the console; it's about the costs of making a game on it. Making a game costs an umaginable amount of work and money these days, all because of the usage of detailed models, textures, engines and voicework. Now, think about this; you're making a game, alright? It'll be on either PS3 or PSP2 (frankly having a game on PS3 does mean having a game on PSP2 but just humor me for a second). Which one would you choose? A home console that's acclaimed well and actually gave a reason to their owners for buying huge plasma screens in order to use the console within its full potential THAT ALSO HAS Move support, PSN (debatable), SECOND CONTROLLER, Dualshock; or a shitty handheld console that will NEVER show these graphics hundreds of people worked their ass off for in their full glory and potential because of the tinyass screen it has? Oh then they say you can plug PSP2 to Plasma TV. Well, what's the point? It destroys its usage as a HANDHELD console. Why not buying a, dunno, PS3? More memory, SECOND CONTROLLER, MOVE SUPPORT, and it doesn't run out of juice in the middle of your game. Also most of those PS3 games are not even DESIGNED for a handheld console. If I want to play a handheld console I'd like to play games that I can play between roadtrips or school breaks or whatever; when I'm not home but I have time to spend. To do that you must be able to save your game whenever you want, and the games must be full of gameplay and gimmicky stuff without many cutscenes. MGS4 on PSP2, boohoo, great job guys, a title that would ONLY be played just for watching LONGASS cutscenes in a crammed screen just because "it just can". Noone would play MGS4 on a handheld. And if they actually make the console save any time at any given time, it's the same as cheating when it comes to some PS3 titles because there was a REASON why they wanted to make their games with limited save availability in the first place.

This is just an idiotic idea of Sony. So they're all "hm, we have to push our handheld console to the next level" and what they do in the end? Amping the shit out of graphic hardware up. You won't be able to feast your eyes, it'll just run superb graphics in itself but offer you a tiny version of it so, WHY? Let's look at 3DS now. They knew it, they knew there is no point of detailed graphics. So they brought 3DS, a gimmicky new graphic technology that does not eat up so many juice and it actually looks good. It actually has a point of being on a handheld console and ALSO, only on a handheld console. 3DS is special whereas PSP2 is just a showoff of how Sony can tuck their hugeass console in a matchstick box. It's cool, yes, but noone would buy it except for collectors and richsters.

[Giant Tope]

Richsters: Just as bad, or worse word than sheeple? Story at 11.

[SHODANFreeman]

I don't like the idea. It's downright stupid. And time will tell if I'm right or not.

You're not right, you're a biased fanboy.

It's not about how much it'll cost to them to make the console; it's about the costs of making a game on it. Making a game costs an umaginable amount of work and money these days, all because of the usage of detailed models, textures, engines and voicework. Now, think about this; you're making a game, alright? It'll be on either PS3 or PSP2 (frankly having a game on PS3 does mean having a game on PSP2 but just humor me for a second). Which one would you choose? A home console that's acclaimed well and actually gave a reason to their owners for buying huge plasma screens in order to use the console within its full potential THAT ALSO HAS Move support, PSN (debatable), SECOND CONTROLLER, Dualshock; or a shitty handheld console that will NEVER show these graphics hundreds of people worked their ass off for in their full glory and potential because of the tinyass screen it has? Oh then they say you can plug PSP2 to Plasma TV. Well, what's the point? It destroys its usage as a HANDHELD console. Why not buying a, dunno, PS3? More memory, SECOND CONTROLLER, MOVE SUPPORT, and it doesn't run out of juice in the middle of your game. Also most of those PS3 games are not even DESIGNED for a handheld console. If I want to play a handheld console I'd like to play games that I can play between roadtrips or school breaks or whatever; when I'm not home but I have time to spend. To do that you must be able to save your game whenever you want, and the games must be full of gameplay and gimmicky stuff without many cutscenes. MGS4 on PSP2, boohoo, great job guys, a title that would ONLY be played just for watching LONGASS cutscenes in a crammed screen just because "it just can". Noone would play MGS4 on a handheld. And if they actually make the console save any time at any given time, it's the same as cheating when it comes to some PS3 titles because there was a REASON why they wanted to make their games with limited save availability in the first place.

First, nothing you're saying is based on anything resembling fact. Second, developers only have to make a game look as good as they want to. Did Telltale make SBCG4AP look like Crysis when they ported it to PS3? No. Just because the system HAS the power to run things like Metal Gear Solid 4, doesn't mean that every game ever made for it must have ultimate graphics. Third, all of the third party developer "titles" shown were quite literally done in a matter of weeks as a testament to how easy the platform is to develop for and port to. None of these "titles" are actually in development. They were tech demos.

This is just an idiotic idea of Sony. So they're all "hm, we have to push our handheld console to the next level" and what they do in the end? Amping the shit out of graphic hardware up. You won't be able to feast your eyes, it'll just run superb graphics in itself but offer you a tiny version of it so, WHY? Let's look at 3DS now. They knew it, they knew there is no point of detailed graphics. So they brought 3DS, a gimmicky new graphic technology that does not eat up so many juice and it actually looks good. It actually has a point of being on a handheld console and ALSO, only on a handheld console. 3DS is special whereas PSP2 is just a showoff of how Sony can tuck their hugeass console in a matchstick box. It's cool, yes, but noone would buy it except for collectors and richsters.

Maybe you didn't hear, but the screen is 5 INCHES, which is possibly the largest screen in the history of handheld gaming. DSi XL only has 4.2 inch screens and PSP only has a 4.5 inch screen. So please stop saying the screen is "tiny" and "crammed".

3D is a gimmick, and a fad, and most people I know really don't like it and aren't interested in owning either a 3D TV or a 3DS. The entire point of 3DS is a graphical update to regular DS. Anyone that argues otherwise is ignorant. Nintendo has even begun to realize that having an underpowered platform is a bad idea.

Also, "richsters"? We don't even have a price point yet, and somehow you're POSITIVE that it will cost infinitely more than 3DS?

Come back when you're not so butthurt that NGP is so much more advanced than 3DS.

[GuruGuru214]

Well, it's not the entire point. There's that slider thing. But yeah, other than that, it seems an awful lot like a DSi with better graphics, new firmware, and more cameras. So is that three or four of the damn things we're up to now?

[Falanca]

FYI I choose PS3 over WII any day. I may be a fanboy of one significant console out of the series of 3 but I never obsess on brands. I'm just saying Sony is better at home consoles but it's not the same when it comes to handheld consoles. Boy, you sure don't hesitate to bring out your "fanboy tag gun". I'd say it also shows a significant amount of butthurt, but I'm not like that.

That's the point; they show PSP2 as the new PSP, "the next generation", when the only things that it introduce is a new analog stick, 3G and near-PS3 graphics. You say all developers don't have to create a MGS4 now that PSP is able to run it, and I can agree with that, but that just means apart from a better way to log into PSN and that new analog stick there is no point on making a PSP2 other than just to compete against Nintendo. I can't debate on these other new stuff that it brings -the released games will tell how useful they'll prove theirselves to be- (although on a more personal approach I HATED to play games on PSP using that analog stick) but amping the graphics is just retarded. And if it'll just be a potential aspect of PSP2 to be able to run graphics like that; it's a shame. Meaning PSP owners will be forced to get PSP2 to buy new games that are not that graphically enchanced. I wouldn't like to buy a new console to play the next installment of LocoRoco, I would like to have it on PSP since it'll most likely be capable of running it as well.

I'm constantly making MGS4 comparisons because someone in this thread said that PS3 games will be able to played on PSP2 and it was a response to that. I'm aware there is no announcement on the games yet, but that idea itself is also retarded, and I also wanted to reason out why big developers should or should not choose making a game on PSP2 when they can do it for PS3. It's risky and I'm not sure if they'll take this risk or not, time will tell.

4 inches, 5 inches, potayto, potahto... Okay you know what, if you're going to accuse me of being a fanboy, don't seem like one. It's still handheld, the screen is still small for its technological potential, and if you ask me the console is now too big for a handheld. And still, screen's small. It's crammed and detailed graphics are unnecessary. DSi or even 3DS don't aim for detailed models so the graphics would look ugly if their screens were bigger. But PSP DOES aim for detailed models and textures and I'm saying this again; if PSP2 really has the power of PS3, it's just a waste. I again want to remind you that PS3 owners needed to buy HiDef TVs to enjoy that power. Compared to that, yeah, I think 5 inches is tiny.

You are right about 3DS. I'm not disagreeing with you there. It's the same as DS but now things are coming at you. But what does PSP2 bring? A power the console itself cannot use. I'm not saying PSP2 isn't more advanced than 3DS, I never said it, I'm saying PSP2 is unnecessarily advanced in graphics for a handheld console. Please read what I've said there.

I'm butthurt but this is because companies think graphic adjustment is the thing that handheld gaming needs at the very moment.

[SHODANFreeman]

Well, it's not the entire point. There's that slider thing. But yeah, other than that, it seems an awful lot like a DSi with better graphics, new firmware, and more cameras. So is that three or four of the damn things we're up to now?

Right, whereas NGP is adding front and rear multi-touch pads, 3G coverage, dual real analog sticks, sixaxis control, front and rear cameras, and a much larger screen, on top of the best graphics a handheld device has ever been capable of. NGP is the best features of PSP, the best features of DS, and more.

[GuruGuru214]

I'm butthurt but this is because companies think graphic adjustment is the thing that handheld gaming needs at the very moment.

This is hardly anything new. Graphics have been blown out of proportion for years now, and it's not just video games. Look at 3D movies and the latest and greatest HDTV of the week. And yeah, graphics are important, but only to a point. There's a point somewhere that the game companies need to decide the graphics have gotten good enough and stop trying to surpass, and there's a point where the fanboys need to stop obsessing over them to the point of canceling pre-orders on Alan Wake because someone counted the damn pixels and determined that not every frame was rendering at 720p (http://www.cracked.com/article_18571_5-reasons-its-still-not-cool-to-admit-youre-gamer_p2.html). If you wanted the fucking game before, why the hell would you not want it now over a few damn pixels?

[Falanca]

Right, whereas NGP is adding front and rear multi-touch pads, 3G coverage, dual real analog sticks, sixaxis control, front and rear cameras, and a much larger screen, on top of the best graphics a handheld device has ever been capable of. NGP is the best features of PSP, the best features of DS, and more.

And this slowly turns into another PS3 vs. WII debate.

[Giant Tope]

That's the point; they show PSP2 as the new PSP, "the next generation", when the only things that it introduce is a new analog stick, 3G and near-PS3 graphics.

Wat. I think you missed the part where there was 2 touch screens, gyroscopic and accelerometer functions, beautiful oled, or gps. I'm not even sure if I got it all. Many of these introduced functions are what devs wanted to see in the new DS but didn't get.

See here (http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/article.php?id=16083), here (http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/article.php?id=15764), and here (http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/article.php?id=15954).

[Falanca]

gyroscopic and accelerometer functions

Okay, they don't really want me to play games on a roadtrip, do they?

Rest makes little to no sense, though. There are so many buttons on that damn thing, and multitouch? I understand touchscreen if it makes use of its 3G for browsing as well, but multitouch is just showing off. Again, PSP2 seems to be too technologically superior BUT it's not making it easier to control all those new functions. Wherever you touch there is another button.

EDIT: Okay there is no multitouch on PSP2. Why did you say that o_ô

[Rather Dashing]

Okay, they don't really want me to play games on a roadtrip, do they?
It's kind of hard to draw with a stylus in a bumpy car too. In fact, I'd say it'is more difficult than the device being able to know its relative position. I have a simple little game on my phone that uses accelerometer functionality, and it seems to be easier than any stylus-heavy game on my DS when in a bumpy car sort of situation. Still not super easy, but I think this as an issue is overly exaggerated in terms of importance.

EDIT: Okay there is no multitouch on PSP2. Why did you say that o_ô
I'm sorry, but I don't know how you came to this conclusion. Both touch panels on the NGP have multitouch capabilities. This is most notably shown off in the Deviants demo, in which the back screen is touched by two fingers to make two hills or a substantially larger hill, while a multitouch "pinch" command on the front screen can "grab" a Deviant to slingshot it. This was also shown off in the Uncharted camera mode, where you could use pinch commands to perform zoom functions on the screen or use multitouch gestures on the back panel to simulate climbing or other actions. Anyway, it's not just "showing off", as multitouch commands allow for a far greater variety in touch functionality, using more complex gestures that simply can't be done with a single accepted input point.

[Falanca]

I was googling around about the multitouch function of NGP and most articles said it doesn't have that. Maybe they weren't credible enough. So it does have it, and I move on...

It has more functions alright, but the way I see it; NGP includes too much functions which are triggered by too much inputs.

[Rather Dashing]

Last I checked, there wasn't a DS game that made you use the mic while also pressing the buttons(all of them) and using the touch screen while turning the machine to use an accelerometer-equipped cart. You don't use everything at once, that'd just be absurd.

Generally speaking, in the demos Sony had to show off, accelerometer/gyroscope functionality was an aspect of a specific game mode or action(generally a first-person mode, used to line up sights or something similar). Every single NGP function had a demonstrable game-related application, and each was treated as an alternative to other forms of interaction whenever possible(that is, if it could be accomplished with a button, it could be in the Sony demos).

[DrRocketGenius]

I think the biggest thing this all boils down to is games. I've had my DS and PSP for the same amount of time. While I probably have over 50 DS games, I have about 5 for the PSP. If the PSP2 has awesome games, then that's fantastic and I'll get it. Not for the touchpads, not for the screen- for the games. I'm more excited about Paper Mario and Animal Crossing than I am about the 3D on the 3DS.

canceling pre-orders on Alan Wake because someone counted the damn pixels and determined that not every frame was rendering at 720p (http://www.cracked.com/article_18571_5-reasons-its-still-not-cool-to-admit-youre-gamer_p2.html).

This... just... ugh. Alan Wake is a fantastic game.

[SunnyGuy]

I think the biggest thing this all boils down to is games.

Pretty much, remember when the PSP and DS came out? Those extra features the PSP had over the DS sure helped it right guys?

If I get an NGP it sure isn't gonna be any time soon though, I seriously don't see the thing debuting below the $350-450 price range.

[Rather Dashing]

Those extra features the PSP had over the DS sure helped it right guys?
...Like what?

Could you list these features? There was an analog nub(adopted by the 3DS), online functionality(also on the 3DS), and some extra horsepower. Other than that, every other feature didn't really have demonstrable game-related applications.

[SunnyGuy]

I didn't really mean anything in specific, just in general about how everyone was declaring the PSP the winner of the PSP/DS battle before it came out because of all its extra power and stuff and then reality turned out the other way around. All I'm saying is that everything it has won't mean **** if the games are ****, so lets just wait and see how both the 3DS and the NGP turn out.

It wasn't directed at anyone either if that's what you thought btw.

[Giant Tope]

I think that it's a pretty safe bet that there will be a good amount of games coming out for the NGP. (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/heres-the-full-third-party-publisher-list-for-ngp/)

[Rather Dashing]

I didn't really mean anything in specific, just in general about how everyone was declaring the PSP the winner of the PSP/DS battle before it came out because of all its extra power and stuff and then reality turned out the other way around. All I'm saying is that everything it has won't mean **** if the games are ****, so lets just wait and see how both the 3DS and the NGP turn out.
The problem is, you're taking two different things and calling them equivalent. The term "Extra Features" that you use for one is not equivalent to the next. It also helps that a lot of these "extra features" are things that developers (http://goo.gl/i4ot6) have asked (http://goo.gl/TXf4g) for specifically (http://goo.gl/WLt4O) in a handheld portable, and courting third-party devs is the first major step to making sure that the game selection isn't Asterisk Asterisk Asterisk Asterisk. It's true that no game device is solid without a game selection, but a very large selection of developers and publishers have voiced their support for the device pretty early on, and the fact that it's very easy to port to and to develop for using the tools they are already utilizing for console development, I think the logical conjecture is that it is far more likely to have a wide library compared to its predecessor.

[DrRocketGenius]

I think the logical conjecture is that it is far more likely to have a wide library compared to its predecessor.

I just hope you're right.

I guess this thing isn't backwards compatible, is it?

[Rather Dashing]

I just hope you're right.
I do too. I'm looking at these features and thinking, "Man, I really hope people get the chance to fully utilize THAT in a game!". It seems to me that there are a lot more gameplay possibilities on this platform than on any competing platform, so I really want to see it fully utilized.

[Falanca]

I don't, I really don't. Call me anti-christ or something, I believe that's so much details we have to give inputs of. Confusing, untangled mess.

On the other hand a game simply having running, sprinting, jumping and walljumping can be really successful.

[Rather Dashing]

What's ideal then? The 3DS has more inputs than you could possibly use at once. Should it be pared down to, say, two face buttons and a directional pad? And they've added far too much. The DS was already too many inputs, but now you have an analog nub, another camera, augmented reality cards, an accelerometer, and a gyroscope. Will they ever make the simple two-button handheld just for Falanca? :(

[Jen Kollic]

WTF is the NGP? Neo-Geo Portable? Or is that what they're calling the new PSP? Either way, unless it has Pokemon, I'm buying the 3DS.

ETA: Oh, it IS the new PSP. Never mind then.

[Falanca]

LOL shuddap. I'm blowing this thread and get my colorless Game Boy for a spin.

[Falanca]

WTF is the NGP? Neo-Geo Portable? Or is that what they're calling the new PSP? Either way, unless it has Pokemon, I'm buying the 3DS.

NEOGEOPORTABLEWOULDWIN.

NGP is only the temprorary name of PSP2. It's weird how they use an abbreviation as a word in another abbreviation though.

[Jen Kollic]

LOL shuddap. I'm blowing this thread and get my colorless Game Boy for a spin.

My Game Gear mocks your colourless Game Boy, because Sega do what NintenDON'T. For about two hours. Then the batteries die and I need another six AAs.

[Rather Dashing]

WTF is the NGP? Neo-Geo Portable? Or is that what they're calling the new PSP? Either way, unless it has Pokemon, I'm buying the 3DS.
I simply can't think that a game that has only changed in a very iterative sense, like Pokemon, really is worth an entire machine purchase. That's probably just me. The PSP so far has had exclusive support of Monster Hunter, though. Pretty similar in concept, and pretty popular in Japan.

LOL shuddap. I'm blowing this thread and get my colorless Game Boy for a spin.
So...you admit your whole argument is without any real logical basis then. Thanks!

My Game Gear mocks your colourless Game Boy, because Sega do what NintenDON'T. For about two hours. Then the batteries die and I need another six AAs.
You obviously need the Power Back. Bulky, but it helps with the battery issue.

It's weird how they use an abbreviation as a word in another abbreviation though.
...They don't. It's Next Generation Portable. I think your arguments would make more sense if you actually took the time to know what you were talking about.

[GuruGuru214]

My Game Gear mocks your colourless Game Boy, because Sega do what NintenDON'T. For about two hours. Then the batteries die and I need another six AAs.

Yeah, I used to want a Nomad SO BAD when I was little. Now I have one and it sits in a drawer while I scorn it and play Genesis games on my PSP.

[Falanca]

So...you admit your whole argument is without any real logical basis then. Thanks!

It's just my preference man, if you need any logical basis I just might simply offer you a bad hand-eye coordination and lack of the sense of multitasking.

[Rather Dashing]

It's just my preference man, if you need any logical basis I just might simply offer you a bad hand-eye coordination and lack of the sense of multitasking.
...you're going to have to reword that, because I honestly don't know what you're saying here.

[Secret Fawful]

I simply can't think that a game that has only changed in a very iterative sense, like Pokemon, really is worth an entire machine purchase. That's probably just me. The PSP so far has had exclusive support of Monster Hunter, though. Pretty similar in concept, and pretty popular in Japan. I proudly got a GBA just for Pokemon Ruby. I proudly got a GCN just for Paper Mario 2. I proudly got a DS just for Mario and Luigi 2. I would proudly buy the 3DS for Paper Mario 4 if it wasn't for the shitty battery time. Nobody cares if a game changes its mechanics if what it has works and is fun, spankyouverymacho. What do you want Pokemon to do? Make its next game about basketball?

So...you admit your whole argument is without any real logical basis then. Thanks!
http://i.imgur.com/30zdv.jpg
Nobody gives a damn about your fricking logic. GTFO. I'm a graduate of the Mugen school of thought.

[Falanca]

...They don't. It's Next Generation Portable. I think your arguments would make more sense if you actually took the time to know what you were talking about.

I'm sorry for assuming stuff as a human being and just following a simple logic of "It's a Playstation, it's coming right after Playstation Portable, now why in the hell they're omitting the product series name Playstation?". Admittingly I was wrong but it doesn't mean I don't read jackshit.

[Falanca]

...you're going to have to reword that, because I honestly don't know what you're saying here.

What I'm saying is I prefer simple control designs over having 4 shoulder buttons+multitouch screen+2 analog sticks+D pad and the classic triangle/X/circle/square and it doesn't make me less of a gamer.

[Jen Kollic]

I simply can't think that a game that has only changed in a very iterative sense, like Pokemon, really is worth an entire machine purchase. That's probably just me. The PSP so far has had exclusive support of Monster Hunter, though. Pretty similar in concept, and pretty popular in Japan.

Well, the 3DS is confirmed backward compatible with DS games, so I'll be able to play those on it too, plus there's the obligatory 3DS Zelda title, Harvest Moon, Cooking Mama etc. And there'll be like about 4 'proper' Pokemon games, plus at least two spinoff lines and there'll probably be a new spinoff especially for the 3DS where Pokemon frolic around ONLY IT'S IN 3D NOW. What can I say, I'm a license whore, even when their latest batch of 'new' Pokemon look almost entirely retarded. BUT IT'S IN 3D.

The only PSP game I ever liked was Loco Roco. I did want one when they came out because one of my friends had one that was modded to run emulators and playing ScummVM on a portable system was awesome. But now I can do that on my DS with a flash cart, which makes the whole thing moot.

You obviously need the Power Back. Bulky, but it helps with the battery issue.

It does, but I found that I still only got about four hours out of it. The best accessory I ever got for the Game Gear was the AC Adapter. Which kinda takes the point out of it being 'portable' but what the heck.

Yeah, I used to want a Nomad SO BAD when I was little. Now I have one and it sits in a drawer while I scorn it and play Genesis games on my PSP.

One of my friends has a Multi-Mega, the Megadrive + Mega-CD + portable CD player! Apparently it was a terrible CD player and the battery life was even worse than the Game Gear. But I still want one because it will take up less room than a Mega-Drive + Mega CD. (ha ha, I say that like I'd actually get rid of them after getting one...)

[Rather Dashing]

I'm sorry for assuming stuff as a human being and just following a simple logic of "It's a Playstation, it's coming right after Playstation Portable, now why in the hell they're omitting the product series name Playstation?". Admittingly I was wrong but it doesn't mean I don't read jackshit.
..because it's a codename, not some sort of final retail name. Final information about branding and the like is generally revealed far closer to release. Now, NGP may be the final name(see codename "DS" becoming the official name), but generally speaking temporary early naming("Dolphin", "Revolution", etc) is just that.

It also doesn't help that you had no idea that the machine had multitouch, when every single demo they showed contained a prominent usage of the feature, which pretty heavily implies that you haven't really been paying attention and your reactions are knee-jerk and without factual basis.



What I'm saying is I prefer simple control designs over having 4 shoulder buttons+multitouch screen+2 analog sticks+D pad and the classic triangle/X/circle/square and it doesn't make me less of a gamer.
Simple control designs like...?

How much simpler should this device be?

Your description doesn't fit any existing or proposed device, by the way. The NGP has two shoulder buttons, not four. You're missing a good portion of inputs. Your description is also a device that is less complex, input-wise, than any modern handheld on the market, including the DSi and 3DS. You're literally to the point where, to become simpler, our next handheld should have the same inputs as the Gameboy Advance.

[Falanca]

..because it's a codename, not some sort of final retail name. Final information about branding and the like is generally revealed far closer to release. Now, NGP may be the final name(see codename "DS" becoming the official name), but generally speaking temporary early naming("Dolphin", "Revolution", etc) is just that.

It also doesn't help that you had no idea that the machine had multitouch, when every single demo they showed contained a prominent usage of the feature, which pretty heavily implies that you haven't really been paying attention and your reactions are knee-jerk and without factual basis.

I know it's a codename, I just said that. Whatever the situation is the first assumption of anyone would be the same as mine so just I'M SORRY for not reading the first paragraph of ANY ARTICLE that's given to me to read, geez, just can't you get this over with already?

I read about its compatibility and ease at running PS3 titles, I read about its size, I read about the other analog stick, 3G, screen, well damn it, I wasn't one of those people in the press conference and I didn't get informed by a credible source so went butt-in into the thread because of just this detail. So there I say it, do you want to know more things about my life as an internet lurker or shall we proceed with second base?


Simple control designs like...?

How much simpler should this device be?

Your description doesn't fit any existing or proposed device, by the way. The NGP has two shoulder buttons, not four. You're missing a good portion of inputs. Your description is also a device that is less complex, input-wise, than any modern handheld on the market, including the DSi and 3DS. You're literally to the point where, to become simpler, our next handheld should have the same inputs as the Gameboy Advance.

Are you kidding me? Thing is a mess. You have all those buttons I refered to (except the two that you unneededly corrected) scattered around everywhere except the back label of the console, plus all the tilting and stuff. Now, I know not every game just have to use all those buttons now that they're available, but I expressed that I wouldn't think that a game responding to each of those available ways of input wouldn't be such a good idea because, well, it's complex. Imagine playing a God of War sequel where your tilting of the console actually helps your aim or your touchscreen inputs delivering combo attacks to other enemies, on top of every other button you use while playing any other God of War game. Maybe my example is just too extreme and maybe the representation of this idea can be done with a game containing a slower gameplay and it may be less convoluted to play that thing in the end, but you should not deny it offers so many possibilities it's chaotic.

About the fact that you just said "lol your description fits nothing" just because I sometimes like using mild exaggerations in my typing such as "4 shoulder buttons etc", I just have to say you're just overly nitpicking now for the sake of having a chance to respond in an enraged way to anything.

[GuruGuru214]

One of my friends has a Multi-Mega, the Megadrive + Mega-CD + portable CD player! Apparently it was a terrible CD player and the battery life was even worse than the Game Gear. But I still want one because it will take up less room than a Mega-Drive + Mega CD. (ha ha, I say that like I'd actually get rid of them after getting one...)

Yeah, I've seen what one of those looks like. I actually took the 32X off my Genesis because the thing just looked ridiculous, and I didn't like having to figure out where to plug in two huge adapters to play my Genesis when I didn't even like any of the 32X games anyway. But hey, other than the AV cable that goes between the two systems, the whole 32X setup and games were all free, so who am I to complain? But yeah, I can only imagine trying to find a decent place to set up a Sega CD 32X.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/3909/303288-segacd32x_super.jpg

I'm not sure whether it's funny or sad...

[Falanca]

I'm not sure whether it's funny or sad...

You know, just thinking about this, they thought that was a good idea back in the day. Maybe in the future humanity can get to a phase where people thinks it's downright ridicilous that we thought it was a good idea to "sequelize" gaming platforms or trying to sell cellphones/handheld consoles that have one more function than the previous one that just released a month before.

I hope I live enough to see the Angry Video Game Nerd of the future.

[GuruGuru214]

Eh, it might've been a good idea if it hadn't been released with pretty much the worst timing in the history of console releases. Also, if the Powersquid had been invented yet. You saw the AVGN trying to plug that thing into a power strip. Not pretty.

[Rather Dashing]

I know it's a codename, I just said that. Whatever the situation is the first assumption of anyone would be the same as mine so just I'M SORRY for not reading the first paragraph of ANY ARTICLE that's given to me to read, geez, just can't you get this over with already?
It would be easier to get over if you would stop making claims on things, as though they were fact, based on assumptions rather than on the actual fact of the matter. If you say "it's weird they did X", it would be nice if you actually knew they did "X" first.

I read about its compatibility and ease at running PS3 titles, I read about its size, I read about the other analog stick, 3G, screen, well damn it, I wasn't one of those people in the press conference and I didn't get informed by a credible source so went butt-in into the thread because of just this detail. So there I say it, do you want to know more things about my life as an internet lurker or shall we proceed with second base?
So, you were wrong on that count. That's fine. That's all you needed to say. "I was wrong because I wasn't properly informed" is pretty simple to say and understand.

Are you kidding me? Thing is a mess. You have all those buttons I refered to (except the two that you unneededly corrected)
Uneededly isn't a word, you're looking for "needlessly". And it was factually inaccurate.

scattered around everywhere except the back label of the console, plus all the tilting and stuff. Now, I know not every game just have to use all those buttons now that they're available, but I expressed that I wouldn't think that a game responding to each of those available ways of input wouldn't be such a good idea because, well, it's complex. Imagine playing a God of War sequel where your tilting of the console actually helps your aim or your touchscreen inputs delivering combo attacks to other enemies, on top of every other button you use while playing any other God of War game. Maybe my example is just too extreme and maybe the representation of this idea can be done with a game containing a slower gameplay and it may be less convoluted to play that thing in the end, but you should not deny it offers so many possibilities it's chaotic.
Your proposed system here doesn't make sense. Not that it doesn't work, but there's no point where, in a God of War game, where aiming is necessary. Your example fails to illustrate a system that could exist within its genre, let alone

About the fact that you just said "lol your description fits nothing" just because I sometimes like using mild exaggerations in my typing such as "4 shoulder buttons etc"
...adding two buttons is a crazy satirical exaggeration?

You fail to show how your ideas have any real merit. If they do, then the 3DS is also doomed, as it has(drumroll please):

2 less points of input.

NGP-exclusive inputs are in Bold

NGP:

-1 Mutlitouch OLED screen(better than, but not more than, the DS's touch LCD)
-1 Multitouch pad(back)
-Four face buttons
-Directional Pad
-Analog(1)
-Analog(2)
-Gyroscope
-Accelerometer
-Shoulder Buttons(2)
-Microphone(2, though one is for noise cancellation, not input)
-Start, select, power, etc.
-Camera(2)

3DS:

-Touch LCD
-Four face buttons
-Directional Pad
-Analog(1)
-Gyroscope
-Accelerometer
-Shoulder Buttons
-Microphone
-Start, select, power, etc.
-Camera(3)

On the whole, nobody is making "simple" handhelds anymore. The "stupidity" and "overcomplexity" is not a fight against one device, but both major devices.

Still, if both major handhelds are inherently flawed out the gate, then the new PSP doesn't have to worry as much about its handicap, as Nintendo was gracious enough to handicap their own handheld with needless inputs as well.

I just have to say you're just overly nitpicking now for the sake of having a chance to respond in an enraged way to anything.
I'm nitpicking because your ideas don't make any sense. I'm not really emotionally involved, and I'm not upset with you in any way, I would just rather not have the thread filled with inaccuracies and assumptions that don't hold any water.

[Falanca]

Your proposed system here doesn't make sense. Not that it doesn't work, but there's no point where, in a God of War game, where aiming is necessary.

This did not make any sense (it works but it does not?!), even moreso than the rest of your post, I'm just saying this and not giving you any more of my materials and keeping you from "filling this thread with inaccuracies" "unneededly" which you claim to hate but repeat on doing for some reason.

[Rather Dashing]

No, see, it's not that it doesn't work(which was your intended implication), but because there is no point where aiming would be necessary, so it's impossible to even *try* to implement the system you suggested. There is no aiming, therefore you can't even try to implement a bad aiming system.

Uneededly was your word, the inaccuracies are your own, I'm attempting to correct them(the factual inaccuracies, not opinions), and I never claimed to hate anything.

[Falanca]

No, see, it's not that it doesn't work(which was your intended implication), but because there is no point where aiming would be necessary, so it's impossible to even *try* to implement the system you suggested. There is no aiming, therefore you can't even try to implement a bad aiming system.

Uneededly was your word, the inaccuracies are your own, I'm attempting to correct them(the factual inaccuracies, not opinions), and I never claimed to hate anything.

See, it would actually be possible in a tweaked gameplay engine of God of War. Actually, just add the little detail of "which place you damage an enemy of" and set its trigger to the angle of the position of the console. I just gave the example of God of War to give the idea of an action game you have to connect a bunch of combo attacks simultaneously and asked you to connect the dots, but, no dice. I think you're reading into "facts" too much that you don't really try to tweak them in your mind a little.

That's ironic, my last 3-4 posts were mostly based on either opinions or facts that are too personal, such as "I didn't read into that article that much because I had to poop then forgot about it".

By the way, my usage of "mild" there was simply sarcasm. But I assume today's literal day or else you wouldn't even bother to reply to me for so long. Also, it's "unneededly", not "uneededly", and just because of this occurence you and me had, I guarantee you one day it'll make its day to the dictionary.

[Rather Dashing]

No, no, it's needlessly.

So...your system is perfectly possible on the 3DS. Nintendo's handheld is stupid and doomed, too. This whole handheld generation this time through is truly and thoroughly fucked, because you can feasibly have to turn your handheld while pushing buttons.

Facts aren't personal. What articles say, what a device can do, these are facts. They're objective. You can't have personal facts. Personal things, like opinions, are subjective and can't be proven or disproven(though the can be based on illogical thought processes).

[Falanca]

As in, you "needlessly" keep going on the same issue over and over? I'd go along and say it doesn't have the same chime, but you'd either complain about how words can't have chimes or list out the aspects to show me the comparison between both words' chime-related details.

It's possible, just never done because most games that use the touchscreen on DS assumes that you use the stylus, therefore leaving only one of your hand available for using the buttons. Since the buttons are all located on the both sides of the console it'll be impossible to use both, so the games are programmed in a way to make use of only with the buttons that are located at one side and not the other. So they don't overcomplicate their games' controls.

On the other hand, you can use all the buttons and the screen of a PSP2 with the usage of both thumbs on the screen (which wouldn't be that practical on DS because the touchscreen of DS is too small to give inputs using a thumb) therefore nothing stops the developers from making a game using all the buttons AND multi-touchscreen AND gyroscope or whatever.

Facts can be personal (not objective but personal), since the fact may be ABOUT a detail of one's personal life, and that was what I meant.

[Rather Dashing]

It's possible, just never done because most games that use the touchscreen on DS assumes that you use the stylus, therefore leaving only one of your hand available for using the buttons. Since the buttons are all located on the both sides of the console it'll be impossible to use both, so the games are programmed in a way to make use of only with the buttons that are located at one side and not the other. So they don't overcomplicate their games' controls.

On the other hand, you can use all the buttons and the screen of a PSP2 with the usage of both thumbs on the screen (which wouldn't be that practical on DS because the touchscreen of DS is too small to give inputs using a thumb) therefore nothing stops the developers from making a game using all the buttons AND multi-touchscreen AND gyroscope or whatever.

http://i.imgur.com/CCt5e.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GBcEL.jpg

This is not an obscure accessory. It comes with the device. You are meant to use your thumb with this strap as a stylus. So, again, same issue.

Facts can be personal (not objective but personal), since the fact may be ABOUT a detail of one's personal life, and that was what I meant.
What you're calling a "personal fact" is called being wrong in actual english. Facts are objective pieces of data that can't be personal in any way. It's a fact that you didn't read something. It's a fact that, due to this, you said something that was wrong. These are truths. They aren't personal in any way, they are universal. There isn't a person somewhere in the world who lives in a world in which the fact is that you didn't say something wrong because you actually knew what you were talking about because you stopped to read the information that has been made readily available. Because that didn't happen. There is no subjective existence of facts, you were just wrong, and continue to be objectively, factually wrong.

[GuruGuru214]

Correction: the wrist strap used to come with the device. My later-model Lite only has a wrist strap because I saved it when my original DS broke. Not that I'm arguing your point (or getting involved in this shitstorm at all, for that matter).

[Falanca]

This is not an obscure accessory. It comes with the device. You are meant to use your thumb with this strap as a stylus. So, again, same issue.

Either way less practical than using a stylus since the thumb gets in the way of your sight, so still games are designed in the way I explained. This is more like for left-handed people that also need to use the d-pad.


What you're calling a "personal fact" is called being wrong in actual english. Facts are objective pieces of data that can't be personal in any way. It's a fact that you didn't read something. It's a fact that, due to this, you said something that was wrong. These are truths. They aren't personal in any way, they are universal. There isn't a person somewhere in the world who lives in a world in which the fact is that you didn't say something wrong because you actually knew what you were talking about because you stopped to read the information that has been made readily available. Because that didn't happen. There is no subjective existence of facts, you were just wrong, and continue to be objectively, factually wrong.
If I were going to make a card of this fact, which has all the significant bits of details and informations regarding it, it would be in the "personal" category. Personal life means the special lifetime portions of someone's life (not OBJECTIVE life), personal belongings mean the belongings of one person (not OBJECTIVE belongings), and personal fact means a fact about a person. See a pattern here?

[Giant Tope]

I think you have a different definition of fact than everyone else.

[Rather Dashing]

Either way less practicle than using a stylus since the thumb gets in the way of your sight, so still games are designed in the way I explained. This is more like for left-handed people that also need to use the d-pad.
Practical is the spelling you're looking for.

Also, we're not talking what's practical, apparently. We're talking about what's possible. You want to suggest stupid systems that require 5 different inputs at once, even when nobody ever demoed anything like that. You want to say that because something is possible on the NGP, then it will infect every title on that platform and the controls will suck on every game, therefore the device as a whole is terrible. This is nonsensical, because terrible controls can be designed on any input device. People go for what's practical and what works. There are tons of keys on any given keyboard, but movement is generally mapped to WASD because that's what's practical. I could arbitrarily say I hate keyboards as input methods and PC gaming as a whole because someone could feasibly map walking left to the letter p, right to the capslock key, forward to the spacebar, and backwards to the number 8, but nobody is ever going to do that even though the option is there, because it's not practical. In the same way, we're never going to see an NGP title that actually asks the player to use tilt while pressing buttons and using one or both multitouch surfaces and both analogs all at once. That's absurd. Just because it's possible to do everything at once doesn't mean anybody WILL, just like nobody does the above keyboard example and nobody tasks DS users with using all possible inputs even though such a thing is entirely possible. Because unlike you, game designers aren't intentionally trying to break their own controls for the sake of reinforcing a bias that is based on assumptions that don't make any logical sense.


If I were going to make a card of this fact, which has all the significant bits of details and informations regarding it, it would be in the "personal" category. Personal life means the special lifetime portions of someone's life (not OBJECTIVE life), personal belongings mean the belongings of one person (not OBJECTIVE belongings), and personal fact means a fact about a person. See a pattern here?
You either have a different definition of the word "personal" or the word "fact". A personal fact would be one that applies only to one person, when facts are objective and are true for everyone(which is why they are called facts). I'm not sure if the word you're looking for is "opinion" or "being wrong".

[LuigiHann]

I have nothing to say about your argument but I have to say that the idea of a touchpad on the back of a portable system is pretty interesting. I don't know how useful it'd be in practice, but it's a neat idea

[Falanca]

Also, we're not talking what's practical, apparently. We're talking about what's possible. You want to suggest stupid systems that require 5 different inputs at once, even when nobody ever demoed anything like that. You want to say that because something is possible on the NGP, then it will infect every title on that platform and the controls will suck on every game, therefore the device as a whole is terrible. This is nonsensical, because terrible controls can be designed on any input device. People go for what's practical and what works. There are tons of keys on any given keyboard, but movement is generally mapped to WASD because that's what's practical. I could arbitrarily say I hate keyboards as input methods and PC gaming as a whole because someone could feasibly map walking left to the letter p, right to the capslock key, forward to the spacebar, and backwards to the number 8, but nobody is ever going to do that even though the option is there, because it's not practical. In the same way, we're never going to see an NGP title that actually asks the player to use tilt while pressing buttons and using one or both multitouch surfaces and both analogs all at once. That's absurd. Just because it's possible to do everything at once doesn't mean anybody WILL, just like nobody does the above keyboard example and nobody tasks DS users with using all possible inputs even though such a thing is entirely possible. Because unlike you, game designers aren't intentionally trying to break their own controls for the sake of reinforcing a bias that is based on assumptions that don't make any logical sense.
I'm not pointing out the possibility of a game requiring 5 inputs at once, that's just stupid, but I'm pointing out the possibility of having 5 different ways of giving inputs would simply be an overkill because of the simultaneous nature of giving inputs would just confuse people after a while. Developers rather attain multiple jobs to the same trigger, and having so many buttons and ways to give input would mean distributing these jobs to more triggers and that's the point I'm trying to make. And the first thought of game developers of a game for PSP2 would be that it is possible to maintain all of them in a game simply because of the way a user holds his/her console and how he/she is able to reach to all the buttons. But in the end it becomes a test of multitasking and not everyone's able to pass that.



You either have a different definition of the word "personal" or the word "fact". A personal fact would be one that applies only to one person, when facts are objective and are true for everyone(which is why they are called facts). I'm not sure if the word you're looking for is "opinion" or "being wrong".

I read an article but skipped some of the paragraphs and took a shower.

1- This is personal. This is about me and only about me.
2- This is a fact since it's exactly what happened and noone is able to disprove it, therefore true for everyone.

[SHODANFreeman]

I'm not pointing out the possibility of a game requiring 5 inputs at once, that's just stupid, but I'm pointing out the possibility of having 5 different ways of giving inputs would simply be an overkill because of the simultaneous nature of giving inputs would just confuse people after a while. Developers rather attain multiple jobs to the same trigger, and having so many buttons and ways to give input would mean distributing these jobs to more triggers and that's the point I'm trying to make. And the first thought of game developers of a game for PSP2 would be that it is possible to maintain all of them in a game simply because of the way a user holds his/her console and how he/she is able to reach to all the buttons. But in the end it becomes a test of multitasking and not everyone's able to pass that.

So ... what you are saying, essentially, is that Sam and Max Season 3 was terrible because you could use click and drag, WASD and mouse, a gamepad, or any combination of the three at once seamlessly?

How is offering more variety in how you interact with a game a BAD thing? Or are you just making up things to whine about now?

[Falanca]

So ... what you are saying, essentially, is that Sam and Max Season 3 was terrible because you could use click and drag, WASD and mouse, a gamepad, or any combination of the three at once seamlessly?

Not the same at all. Because all those gameplay options are meant to be prefered to each other, meaning you're expected to use only one of them. In the end you only need one click of a mouse or 6-7 buttons. In the games that try to be detailed (extreme example, but like QWOP) sometimes a button's work is given to multiple ones and you're expected to use them all to pass through, and all of them.

How is offering more variety in how you interact with a game a BAD thing?
Because no matter the quantity of the varieties you're offered, the main idea is to get you push buttons in correct timing and raising the quantity may decrease the quality, depending on the usage.

[SHODANFreeman]

Not the same at all. Because all those gameplay options are meant to be prefered to each other, meaning you're expected to use only one of them. In the end you only need one click of a mouse or 6-7 buttons. In the games that try to be detailed (extreme example, but like QWOP) sometimes a button's work is given to multiple ones and you're expected to use them all to pass through, and all of them.

In the demo of NGP, they went into great detail showing how you could use any number of ways to move Nathan around in Uncharted, and it was entirely based on what works best for you as a player. The point of having more input methods is to allow more playstyles to be viable and allow people to play the game the way that works the best for them. Want to move Nathan by using the analogs? Great. Want to tap on the screen to tell him where to go? Cool. Do you want to press a button to jump, or jump using the sixaxis? It's about choice, not about mastering 5 different control schemes and swapping between them all fluidly at all times.

[Rather Dashing]

I'm not pointing out the possibility of a game requiring 5 inputs at once, that's just stupid, but I'm pointing out the possibility of having 5 different ways of giving inputs would simply be an overkill because of the simultaneous nature of giving inputs would just confuse people after a while. Developers rather attain multiple jobs to the same trigger, and having so many buttons and ways to give input would mean distributing these jobs to more triggers and that's the point I'm trying to make. And the first thought of game developers of a game for PSP2 would be that it is possible to maintain all of them in a game simply because of the way a user holds his/her console and how he/she is able to reach to all the buttons. But in the end it becomes a test of multitasking and not everyone's able to pass that.
It's no more complex than its competition. Its competition has a ton of inputs that are possible, that can be done either iteratively or at the same time, that can assign functions to different things. You can press butons. You can use a stylus. You can use your thumb(with a strap). You can speak. With the 3DS, you can tilt or use Augmented Reality Cards, or the pedometer. There are tons of options for input on both the PSP and 3DS. There are tons of options for input for the PC platform, with the vast number of keys on a keyboard and the pointing function of a mouse.

These are all options. What's one or two more, or even one or two that are different than the one or two different ones on the other handhelds? How is it inherently terrible? Going through your logic is like walking through a half-waking dream. You apply negatives to Sony that you don't apply to Nintendo. You create scenarios to support your bias. It's fine to like one thing and not the other, but when your reasons for disliking something are made up, maybe you shouldn't be so vehement about it. Or at least as loud about it.

Maybe if you looked at the actual demos, you'd see what you're expected to do as a player, rather than making up an imaginary version of the system that is EVIL and MEAN and BAD in some vague way, whether or not you actually know what you're talking about when you say how terrible the device is.

[Avistew]

I think it looks cool, but right now the whole 3DS and NGP thing has only led me to think about not getting either at all. My GBA and DS will hopefully do me fine until the next generation, and I'll see if I'm more interested in that one.

[Falanca]

In the demo of NGP, they went into great detail showing how you could use any number of ways to move Nathan around in Uncharted, and it was entirely based on what works best for you as a player. The point of having more input methods is to allow more playstyles to be viable and allow people to play the game the way that works the best for them. Want to move Nathan by using the analogs? Great. Want to tap on the screen to tell him where to go? Cool. Do you want to press a button to jump, or jump using the sixaxis? It's about choice, not about mastering 5 different control schemes and swapping between them all fluidly at all times.

And this, exactly explains why the discussion turned into this.

The thread was about the significance about the new ways to give inputs by implementing new technologies, such as gyroscope or multi touch OLED screen. Now, the reason why they showed the demo of Uncharted is because it was a tech demo, it was done to show that "it works". Graphics work and new implementions work. But it's almost the same as saying this; you can also try to play the game with your feet and see what happens, it's also a variety. In the end what's accomplished in the game screen is the same, but it does not matter at all since it was a tech demo. It also wouldn't matter because the game wasn't designed for such a variety of gameplay. But will you buy a PSP2 and port of Uncharted just to play the game once more using the touch screen this time? I don't think so. This forces the developers into designing games making use of the screen in a different way to attract people by its own significance. Maybe they'll make some gimmicky touchscreen games like we see on some touchscreen cellphones which will not really attract people other than it using multiple touch inputs. Or, they'll try to make a big game that's making use of it; because if they don't, touchscreen won't have much of a purpose to even be there.


These are all options. What's one or two more, or even one or two that are different than the one or two different ones on the other handhelds? How is it inherently terrible? Going through your logic is like walking through a half-waking dream. You apply negatives to Sony that you don't apply to Nintendo. You create scenarios to support your bias. It's fine to like one thing and not the other, but when your reasons for disliking something are made up, maybe you shouldn't be so vehement about it. Or at least as loud about it.
I try to reflect the things that already happened when companies introduced new consoles utilizing new technologies. Such as Virtual Boy, such as DS, Playstation 1 or CD-i, even. Some failed and some were successful. Now this one introduces new stuff, and new risks I gotta tell.

I only refered PSP2 being pointless when I was talking about it being able to handle high graphics. Rest was only concerns and only time will tell, but you wanted to go deep with my assumptions and I just responded to you. Now you say I create scenarios. Who says I didn't? It's only that I feel like there is a big chance of PSP2 turning out to be a not-as-successful sequel (as PSP wasn't THAT highly acclaimed either) and I gave my reasons. Well, I apologize if you thought I spotted something that'll most definitely be the downfall of Sony or anything.

[taumel]

Hmm, a problem Sony is facing these days is that there already exist many good enough alternatives for mobile entertainment, the iOS devices, Android mobiles, the older handhelds.

Questions are a) how much better is the gaming experience, b) how much will it cost, c) how painless are the development workflow and the distribution channels and d) what does it offer on top of this.

Beeing on a PS3 level sounds impressive but whilst i can see this somehow working out fillrate wise due to a.o. the smaller screensize, i also strongly doubt it number crunching wise, so it won't work out for all type of games. The analog sticks are a big plus as that's what prevents certain genres beeing fun on the multitouch devices, they have their strengths in other genres. I'm curious how well the touchdevice in the background works in practice.

My instant thoughts were, cool gadget, i would love to have some analog stick input but the gadgets i own already are good enough for me right now and i'm curious to see if they have convincing conditions for indie devs as well as an attractive price point. It's the best hardware simply won't be enough these days anymore. If that's their only card then it will fail.

[SHODANFreeman]

This platform basically takes my favorite things about PSP, my favorite things about DS, and my favorite things about iOS/Android, and merges them into one cohesive pile of awesome. Add in the fact that Sony makes great games, not even counting the 3rd party support they're going to have for the thing, and I'm pretty much salivating for this thing to come out.

[Laserschwert]

With almost everybody picking sides here, I'll just say that I consider getting both a 3DS and a NGP :)

Also I still can't imagine a use for the touchpad on the back of the NGP...

[SHODANFreeman]

With almost everybody picking sides here, I'll just say that I consider getting both a 3DS and a NGP :)

Also I still can't imagine a use for the touchpad on the back of the NGP...

I'm sure I'll get a 3DS eventually, but as of now, there is nothing about it that makes me want to pay full price for the launch model.

They already showed a game that makes heavy use of the rear touchpad, Little Deviants (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/27/video-little-deviants-shows-unique-use-of-ngps-rear-touch-pa/), and it can also be used in the Uncharted demo they showed for climbing vines, etc.

[Rather Dashing]

Here (http://goo.gl/AwsY4) is a better video of the Deviants demo. I think the Uncharted one had more practical applications listed for a wider set of games, though.

[taumel]

@Laserschwert
Multitouchinput without covering the display, has its pros and cons.

[Laserschwert]

@Laserschwert
Multitouchinput without covering the display, has its pros and cons.

I just think it's a bit confusing using a touchpad backwards... but well, I don't know what people thought when they had to use a directional pad for the first time.

[taumel]

It could work pretty well as soon as you feel the contact to some objects or the steering behaviour and you aren't covering the display. It's worse for use cases where you directly want to click on something which could be enhanced if the pad would be able to recognize your fingers positions hovering below the pad as well, but it's still not the same then.

[Rather Dashing]

I think anybody interested should watch these videos (http://goo.gl/VRwQs) of the announcement event. It's the official Sony video with spoken English translation throughout. The event is really long, so as a note:

First Video

-Actual device shows up at around the 4:30 mark
-Specs and features at 7:20

Second Video

-Around the 1:30 mark you get short clips of a variety of games for the device with names in the corner of each clip.
-Right after this is talk about the Uncharted adaptation, near the 3:40 mark. Actual play starts at about 6:13, and it shows a great gameplay demo for the various features of the device.
-After this, they talk about the UI and controls possible on the device.
-Around 12:10, the Little Deviants demo starts up. Another highlight of the event, like the Uncharted demo.
-Around 15:40, you have the talk of the LiveArea. Mostly about UI and the like for buying DLC and games, playing games, chatting, trophies, etc.

Third Video
-Talking about GPS features starts us off.
-Wow that takes awhile. Around 5:30, we get to see a Hot Shots Golf demo. Interesting tech demo showing some UI possibilities.
-After this, they talk about PS Suite for a bit. Cross-platform with Android devices. Android devices getting PSOne titles. Suite titles coming to NGP.

After this, various third parties came on stage to show off some technically impressive titles, but mostly ported from the PS3. It seems third-parties had this event sprung on them, and a more full view of what we'll see from the 80 announced supporting developers will come out later, most likely at E3. The third-party presentations can be seen here (http://goo.gl/Fp4aj).

[DrRocketGenius]

Is the Uncharted game a remake? I watched a video but I honestly can't remember if that's Drake's Fortune.

[SHODANFreeman]

Is the Uncharted game a remake? I watched a video but I honestly can't remember if that's Drake's Fortune.

It appears to be.

[Rather Dashing]

They haven't really announced anything. They've been way less informative about that that than have been about the Resistance game not being a port or remake.

[taumel]

The Playstation Suite and the Playstation Store are interesting if done properly and the NGP seems to be much better than the PSP but mobile gaming is much more influenced by iPhones, Androids and WP(7)8 in the future than by 3DS or a NGP because these devices are already capable enough and offer functionality these new handhelds are missing, can i use it as a phone as well? I don't want to carry both a phone and a handheld around with me. If you define mobile also as playing at your home in your bed, well, then it gets more attractive again but i'm doing this already with a) my iPhone, b) my iPad, c) with my MacBookPro and d) if i really want to i could use my PC this way as well.

So where is the real benefit? Why should i buy a 3DS or a NGP if i have an iPhone already? Will the games beeing available there be so much better? I doubt it. Will they ship with some batteries a few generations ahead? I doubt it. Personally i have almost no interest in playing PS3 games on a mobile as most games aren't interesting there but there certainly is a benefit for those who want. What i would like to see is a wave of unique and creative games. The device offers so many input possibilities but it also needs to be opened to indies because they need to be utalised in interesting games as well. I wouldn't like to play a single game presented there.

So Sony seems to get more games for the NGP but so far not the ones i would like to see as a gamer which then again doesn't make the NGP this interesting. So let's wait and see.

Btw the commercial was one of the worst i've seen since a long time, boring&lifeless.

Thumbs up for that the videos worked without Flash.

[SHODANFreeman]

iPhone is terrible for "regular" games because touch analog sticks are absolutely worthless and nearly impossible to use well, plus covering half the screen with your thumbs is really annoying.

[taumel]

Yes and no...

a) No, if you do it properly and it fits to your game design.
b) Yes, but there exist enough enjoyful games which are steerable with multitouch and an accelerometer, so it doesn't matter this much unless you're into specific genres. For those it would be nice having a combination of hardware sticks and phoning capabilities.

[SHODANFreeman]

Yes and no...

a) No, if you do it properly and it fits to your game design.
b) Yes, but there exist enough enjoyful games which are steerable with multitouch and an accelerometer, so it doesn't matter this much unless you're into specific genres. For those it would be nice having a combination of hardware sticks and phoning capabilities.

I own an iPod Touch and have yet to find a single game that really works well with exclusively touch controls. Most games feel very gimped by the lack of any buttons or tactile directional controls.

[taumel]

There are tons of games on the iTunes Store which work pretty well with the multitouch input. Everything where you need to point&click or point&drag. Virtual joysticks are another thing, a few are good, others aren't and even those which are good hurt after some time due to the friction. I guess it depends on how sensible and big your fingers are.

[SHODANFreeman]

There are tons of games on the iTunes Store which work pretty well with the multitouch input. Everything where you need to point&click or point&drag. Virtual joysticks are another thing, a few are good, others aren't and even those which are good hurt after some time due to the friction. I guess it depends on how sensible and big your fingers are.

I agree that some games work pretty well, but in most cases, they would work better with standard controls, imo.

Also, I have gigantic hands and fingers, being a 6'4" tall monster. :p

[LuigiHann]

Tap Tap Revenge plays pretty much perfectly with touch controls, since tapping directly on the chart gives a much better sense of connection than using a separate set of buttons. Music games and touch screens are always a potentially good match, see Elite Beat Agents on the DS.

Adventure games generally play pretty well on iOS, although there's some sense that a mouse would be better since the changing cursor is a helpful tool that is missed in most of these games.

Chu Chu Rocket plays amazingly with the touchscreen. Really feels like it was made for it. Same with most of the little Bejeweled-type games.

I can't really think of any action-type games that have worked well with touch controls, though. Games like Kirby'S Canvas Curse and Zelda: Phantom Hourglass work great on the DS, but I can't picture playing that sort of thing comfortably without the precise point of a stylus.

[taumel]

@SHODANFreeman
Multitouch is a extremely wonderful and intuitive input for where it suits. I can't imagine how i for instance should better place my units in geoDefense than by multitouch. Or how do you better draw a route in Flight Control? Or jamming around in Pocket Guitar, do you want to do that with an analog stick? And so on...

Multitouch is not only a mouse replacement, it adds some more benefits and if you can make proper usage out of it due to your game design then it's a win. There is a reason why they've implemented in the NGP as well. And again, of course it's not the perfect input solution for all type of games/steering behaviours, that's also the reason why they've added analog sticks and so on, but it's a good solution for many many enjoyable games. Moreover iPhone games are priced very low compared to those from Nintendo's and Sony's handhelds.

[redm]

I really don't ever want to play 3 dimensional games on a handheld device I dunno