Skyrim Trailer

[Wusel]

I just saw the trailer (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/game-engine-elder-scrolls/710872)to Bethesda's new game "Skyrim" ("The Elder Scrolls V")
and wanted to ask if you are as excited about the game as I am.
The music is epic and there are actual dragons in it. :) Be prepared to fetch my money, guys at Bethesda!

So, how do you like the trailer and The Elder Scrolls in general?

[DAISHI]

As long as it endlessly lets me dungeon dive into dungeon after dungeon like the first one, I'll pick it up. I spent countless hours freaking myself out by sneaking around in ogre and troll infested dungeons

[waroftheworlds01]

I'm not over excited about it as I am for Jurassic Park but I am looking forward to it. I played Oblivion for hours and hours. I did bascily all the guilds, side missions, and main story. I also payed a lot of Morrowind. I can't wait to fight dragons. That should be cool.

[corruptbiggins]

I was looking forward to it when it was announced and now after seeing the trailer, I'm really really looking forward to it now!

[Wusel]

As long as it endlessly lets me dungeon dive into dungeon after dungeon like the first one, I'll pick it up. I spent countless hours freaking myself out by sneaking around in ogre and troll infested dungeons

Many players were annoyed when they had to go into dungeons in oblivion, because those looked basically like each others clones. I read that they are now planning to build more unique dungeons and landscapes (since parts of the landscape in oblivion was computer-generated as well), so I GUESS that the quantity of dungeons will decrease. But that could be a good thing, because it could lead to a better atmosphere. Like you said, the first Elder Scrolls had a great ambiance. I hope Skyrim does that better than Oblivion...

[GuybrushWilco]

This trailer changed my life. Now let's see a King's Quest trailer :).

[Megaboz]

Ugh - my productivity is going to be completely shot come November. I was a huge Oblivion addict, and this looks amazing. Seriously can't wait.

[Irishmile]

I really loved oblivion.. it was great but yeah the identical dungeons got really boring.... if they say they sorted that out.. this could be one of the best games ever.

[Banned User]

I really loved oblivion.. it was great but yeah the identical dungeons got really boring.... if they say they sorted that out.. this could be one of the best games ever.
There was some variety in a few of the dungeons. All of their dungeons even Morrowinds are basically made up of pieces like huge lego pieces. A hallway here , a corner here etc and put together. But there are unique parts in a lot of them. The more you explore the more you find things. Skyrim looks good though.

[Rather Dashing]

Don't get me started on how dumbed-down this is going to be. We're dropping magical schools, we're dropping classes, and they can't even make a 30-second teaser without taking a gigantic shit over the lore they built with Daggerfall and Morrowind.

Dragons are not supposed to be typical fantasy beasts. They are supposed to be like Akatosh in the King Edward books.

A bit later, Edward asked Akatosh: "Do you think that we could play a game or two of Battle? I brought the board and playing pieces with me."

Moraelyn interrupted "I'm afraid that Akatosh and I must discuss some matters this evening - and you'd only lose again anyway" he added with a fond smile.

Edward replied "But I can beat everyone else. Akatosh, will I ever win a game with you?"

"No, Edward, you won't", and Akatosh was slightly bemused by Edward's startled expression, and then the hearty laugh that quickly followed it.

"That wasn't very diplomatic of you, Akatosh. But why won't I ever win?"

"Because I have been playing for much longer than you have Edward, and so long as I continue to play, you will not be able to catch up to me. Besides, this game is what I am starting to think of as a 'bounded problem', and that sort is most easily dealt with."

"What do you mean by 'a bounded problem', Akatosh?" asked Mats.

"That is a problem that has a countable number of possible actions and results, Mats. There are only 81 squares on the board, and each side has exactly 27 playing pieces, each piece moves in a specific way, and so on."

"But the game is like a real battle, isn't it?" asked Ssa'ass.

"No, it is very good practice for learning, and for thinking about how to execute a battle - but my Elven Archers never become tired or demoralized, and my Master Mage always does what I want. Such things seldom happen in a real battle."

Moraelyn nodded in agreement, and asked with mock slyness "Then what is an example of an unbounded problem?"

"Certainly a real battle...but also, to me a poem is an unbounded problem"

"But any poem can be analyzed, Akatosh" Aliera said chidingly.

"Of course - but only after it is written. I am unable to define, or bound, the act of writing it, though...that is, the act of creating it. If I start to write a poem...there are so many possibilities" and then wryly "I never get beyond the first line, because I start imagining all the things that I could put into the beginning and...."
---------------------------
The dragon had paused, so Edward interjected, "Mother and I have been discussing the nature of the gods recently, Akatosh, and she thinks that poetry would be a godly activity. What do you think about that notion?"

"I am not so certain that one can attribute anything to the gods, Edward. They are another example of an unbounded problem, of course, but also, their characteristics are just not very well known to us."

"But surely one can determine things about any being that is a god?"

Akatosh replied, "I do not think that we can, at present; they are not like the Daedra, who have a nature that is with them at their birth. That is, the Daedra capabilities are inherent in them, and not are the result of any changes that have occurred to them."

Willow interrupted: "Akatosh, we can determine that the gods have a few basic characteristics, can't we?"

Edward added "Of course, Akatosh - they are powerful beings who can perform acts that are incomprehensible to us. That in itself must signify their difference."

Akatosh nodded and replied "I understand your point of view, but to a farming community on Tamriel in our southern lands, that could also describe how they would perceive me. Perhaps this is attributable to the fact that they seldom see a dragon nowadays, but it also does not mean that I am a god ... neither does it mean that I am not a god."

Willow giggled, and said "Of course you're not a god, Akatosh" and Edward, smiling, nodded agreement.

Akatosh replied "How do you know, Willow? I can understand that you would guess that I am not a god, particularly since I am a dragon." He grinned, and then continued "But how can you know that I am not a god?"

Edward scoffingly replied "Well, I know that I'm not a god anyway. And I've certainly never seen you perform any godly acts, Akatosh - you also don't seem to have any worshippers about either."

The Companions were smiling and generally agreeing with this, but Akatosh responded "But that does not mean that I have no worshippers, nor does it mean that I cannot perform any godly acts - it just means that you have not seen either of these. I am not yet certain that gods and goddesses require worshippers to maintain their existence. And as I said, I can perform magic that would look like 'godly acts' to many Tamrielians."

"But the gods must have worshippers, Akatosh" said Aliera, "That's how they get their ... sustenance, or whatever it is that allows them to continue ... to be godly. Husband, you must know more about this subject. After all, you made a god of your brother S'ephen."

"I did no such thing!" Moraelyn responded, with a touch of indignation. "His godhood is between him and his worshippers, among whom I am numbered. I did establish a temple cult in his memory. Anyone with the worldly means could do as much for anyone, living or dead. That alone is not enough. Maybe it helps -- facilitate matters, but I think it's not really necessary. I know no more of it, but if you want my opinion--" he paused politely for confirmation that it was indeed still solicited, as elven etiquette demanded if one were giving opinion at length.

He continued. "There must be something, well, godly, in the person's soul or essence or whatever part it is that does not die with the body. I know not whether that capacity is innate in the person, from birth or conception, or quickening ... whene'er it is that soul and body are wedded for a life span, or whether great deeds and great generosity might breed it, enlarging the soul and transmuting it, so to speak. We all change and grow with each passing day, with every breath, some more than others. What else is life about?"

He went on without pausing for an answer to his rhetorical question, probably for fear that he might get one. "In other cases, gods seem to arise from a locality, a mountain, or a spring, or wood, or a collection of localities, such as Tamriel itself. Places, like persons have souls, some greater than others. This place might produce a god or a daedra -- or maybe it already has one or more. As it changes, so do its gods and daedra, I think. Maybe they can choose to resist the change or aid it, if propitiated."

He looked at Akatosh inquiringly. The dragon had stopped fighting the new gods, he said, but would he go so far as to worship them? "That speaks to the question of whence gods arise, but source is not nature: of that I know as little as the rest of you, maybe less, since the question does not truly interest me. The gods are; my worship of them benefits me and mine. It is sufficient."

Akatosh did not respond immediately and Aliera refused to be distracted, "But suppose such a cult were established and worshippers provided for one of small and mean spirit. Would that spirit not become a god?"

"I suppose it might be done, if one were determined enough and had a sufficiency of means to pay worshippers to perform rituals without -- spirit -- behind them. Maybe that's where small, mean gods come from, wife. Or maybe daedra? Maybe I'll raise a cult to thee and see what happens."

"Are you calling my spirit small and mean?" Ali glared at him.

"Only by comparison -- you don't fancy yourself a goddess, do you? You might make a daedra,

though. The experiment might be a bit too chancy. Could I just mourn you for a century or two instead?"

"Mm. I'll think on it. What about you? You've deeds enough already to qualify for godhood, surely ... although if you plan on many more such you may not outlive me."

"I'm doomed to be R'Aathim, living and dead. It's godhood of a sort, but what a sort! Don't begrudge me my long life span. Think of me doomed to eternity in the gloomy Ebonheart council chamber listening to the eternal wrangles ... small wonder the dead R'Aathim pulled the place down on the live ones twenty years ago, thus causing my brother and my mother to join their number. The dead R'Aathim must have welcomed the century and a half of respite while the Nords held Ebonheart."

"But your brother S'ephen was killed too, as well as your brother King Cruethys, and S'ephen wasn't R'Aathim, being your mother's son and not your father's, if I have the story straight -- that's why he got his own temple," Edward said. "So why did they kill him, too? The story sounds very daedric to me."

"You'd have me justify the ways of the gods to you, would you? I think they act for ends we cannot see, and slay the just and the unjust together -- not that I'd label any of my Kin as either -- not altogether. We see only the means -- how can we judge? Gods too face choices; I do not think their power supreme. They can overrule nature on occasion, as can any Mage, yet they, like Mages, are in the end bound by it -- and their overrule must answer other rules still -- and in those rules, whate'er they be, I think lies the answer to your questions. I think it's not something men and women may know while living."

Akatosh smiled and replied "It is not so easy to describe the gods, is it? This is true even though, myself included, each of us thinks that we have a mental picture of what godliness means. On the other hand, the gods and goddesses certainly do exist - and I also believe that there is a connection of some sort between them and the Daedra, and another connection between these entities and the power associated with performing magic."

Source: Imperial Library - Daggerfall Books (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/elder-scrolls-ii-daggerfall-books)

[corruptbiggins]

Don't get me started on how dumbed-down this is going to be. We're dropping magical schools, we're dropping classes, and they can't even make a 30-second teaser without taking a gigantic shit over the lore they built with Daggerfall and Morrowind.

Like you need the help to get started! :)

Besides, it's their lore - surely they can do whatever the hell they like with it.

[GuybrushWilco]

Don't get me started on how dumbed-down this is going to be. We're dropping magical schools, we're dropping classes, and they can't even make a 30-second teaser without taking a gigantic shit over the lore they built with Daggerfall and Morrowind.

Source: Imperial Library - Daggerfall Books (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/elder-scrolls-ii-daggerfall-books)

Lol, you never quit do you?

[StarEye]

To be honest, I like the idea of no classes. I mean, if you want to be good at using a bow, start using a bow, if you want to carry heavy armor, start wearing heavy armor, etc etc. Isn't that that it's supposed to be? I'm looking forward to this. There's a good chance they've learnt from the mistakes they did with Oblivion (which I still enjoyed regardless). It's not the dumbing down that was the problem with Oblivion, but the biggest problem stems from the levelling system, and that the world levelled with you in an unrealistic manner (simple thieves wearing high-level armor, while robbing you for 100 gold pieces) and you never really felt more powerful because of this. Levelling was more or less pointless for most of the game.

But despite this, I thoroughly enjoyed spendnig hours upon hours in the game. The Dark Brotherhood and the Thieve's Guild questline were both particularly good. The latter could just as well have been the main quest. Which I never finished by the way (the main quest that is).

Funny (sad?) fact, I've played an insane amount of hours on both the PS3 version and the X360 version, but never spent much time on the PC version.

If you want to see a dumbed down disaster of a sequel, look at Dragon Age 2. The Elder Scrolls at least does it gradually-

[GuybrushWilco]

To be honest, I like the idea of no classes. I mean, if you want to be good at using a bow, start using a bow, if you want to carry heavy armor, start wearing heavy armor, etc etc. Isn't that that it's supposed to be? I'm looking forward to this. There's a good chance they've learnt from the mistakes they did with Oblivion (which I still enjoyed regardless). It's not the dumbing down that was the problem with Oblivion, but the biggest problem stems from the levelling system, and that the world levelled with you in an unrealistic manner (simple thieves wearing high-level armor, while robbing you for 100 gold pieces) and you never really felt more powerful because of this. Levelling was more or less pointless for most of the game.
-

The leveling in Oblivion was pretty bad. Bethesda said they are not going to level up the enemies like in Oblivion, and it will be similar to what they did for Fallout 3.

[JedExodus]

Like you need the help to get started! :)

Besides, it's their lore - surely they can do whatever the hell they like with it.

Well it's stupid to come up with a background for your world and then just ignoring it.

Don't get me started on how dumbed-down this is going to be.

Source: Imperial Library - Daggerfall Books (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/elder-scrolls-ii-daggerfall-books)

I think there's gonna be 'good' dragons in it as well. I remember reading it somewhere. I'm not an expert or owt, jus' sayin

[GuybrushWilco]

We didn't really get a sense of what the dragons would be like in the trailer. They showed the player fighting dragons and dragons attacking, but you can't really tell much from it.

[Rather Dashing]

We didn't really get a sense of what the dragons would be like in the trailer. They showed the player fighting dragons and dragons attacking, but you can't really tell much from it.
The problem is that dragons don't really usually look like that. And they have no reason to attack other territory, because they are mostly fine living on their mountaintops without being bothered. And they tend to not even like working together. And basically everything about their nature would require a huge retroactive plot device to force them into something that even sort of makes sense, but hey that's only people who played the second game and read the books. Who cares about those idiots? The people who even played that game, let alone someone that actually read the books and found them to be a beautiful and excellent way to expand the fantasy world into something real and believable, something that gave the game depth and value.

I'd love to be proven wrong on this count. There is very little in the computer RPG world lately that is great. I don't know if I should blame the console audience or just the general thrust of the industry toward two monotonous genres with slightly different side elements(third and first person action genres, mostly the same with slight differences). Todd Howard is doing a lot in interviews and podcasts to make me feel wary, though. He describes game and story elements in more detail. He has called the dragons "beasts" and "something you should be scared of when you see them", and he seems to care more about a certain temple having exactly 7,000 steps than any sort of discrepancy that makes the universe's game world not seem horrifically inconsistent and fluid.

[GuybrushWilco]

The storyline could very well provide a logical reason as to why the dragons would leave the comfort of their mountain caves to attack. Perhaps someone declared war on the dragons? Maybe some are being controlled some some magical force.

[Rather Dashing]

Both of those sound extremely weak. Even if there is something even remotely resembling a "logical reason", the logical reason is robbing the dragons of their depth and intelligence, which is part of why they're so engaging even when you're only reading about them in text form. Todd Howard has outlined the game as, essentially, one in which you hunt and kill Dragons for powerful spells. Seeing them reduced to that feels, at the very least, disappointing.

[GuybrushWilco]

I did hear that the dragons would speak in the game, and that they would come in different types.

[Rather Dashing]

They write, at the very least, and the written language they have produced for the game is extremely nice and I love the look and logic of it. What I don't like is that the lore seems to now exist as a means of apologizing for the way the gameplay completely contradicts it, and I feel like the brunt of the main gameplay experience will take us through "You're a badass dragonslayer isn't that cool?!" territory. Bethesda as of late has had this problem, it was strongly present in Fallout 3 and in Oblivion, where they don't make cohesive and believable worlds anymore. They sort of lay down a template, like:

-Temperate fantasy forest(which was supposed to be a rainforest, by the way)
-Post-apocalyptic D.C.
-Rugged fantasy mountains)

And then just pepper it with "cool shit", stuff that is neat but doesn't necessarily have to "fit" or "work" or build up to anything in terms of a real world that you feel could actually be a place. It's more a showcase of neat things that are tossed together to create "experiences". Maybe my taste in RPGs is completely different from what everyone else's is, but I am far more engaged in an RPG when I believe that the world I'm inhabiting could actually be a place. Take, for example, Obsidian's Fallout: New Vegas. That place had people who had real backstories, places that actually fit into the game's world, and a consistent feel that made you think that(despite the odd fantastical elements), this place was a real and consistent thing. Places don't exist in a vacuum, or at least they don't appear to, as they acknowledge and understand the world around them. They don't come off as some one-off nugget in the wasteland, but as a thing that is affected by and affects the world around it. That's what makes a great RPG world, and I don't think that Bethesda is up to the task(or wants to be up to the task) of actually making that work.

[StarEye]

You know, you sound awfully bitter. Why not just wait and see?

[Rather Dashing]

I could "wait and see" on Zynga's next game too, even if they outright say it's just Farmville in space or whatever. But hey, anyone could also just "wait and see" on being excited, or thinking it looks "amazing". Hell, generally speaking, those excited for the thing have far less to go on, as they're usually using the couple visual trailers rather than the in-depth audio and text interviews as a basis, and their excitement is very hype-based rather than founded on anything that has any weight at all.

[VeronicanPlay]

This will please my boyfriend a great deal, he is a big fan of Morrow Wind and Oblivion and have been wanting a new Elder Scrolls game to come out for a long time now.

As for me, I might get it. I have Oblivion and thought it was really fun. :)

[tmsmyth4]

Not sure if im more exited for this or dark souls, which has also ditched classes i think. You pretty much chose your class through leveling up and equipment in demon souls anyway, which i liked. Lets hear more on skyrim before making judgement

[Rather Dashing]

Not sure if im more exited for this or dark souls, which has also ditched classes i think. You pretty much chose your class through leveling up and equipment in demon souls anyway, which i liked. Lets hear more on skyrim before making judgement
Again, I always hear this in regards to negativity, but never overt excitement based on little more than a teaser trailer. Why is that?

[StarEye]

Again, I always hear this in regards to negativity, but never overt excitement based on little more than a teaser trailer. Why is that?

It's not like we haven't played earlier games in the series, so it's not really just the trailer. We're excited by the trailer, nothing more. I think it was a good trailer, and I like the graphics and the style it shows us. I've played Morrowind and Oblivion to death, and while Morrowind was a lot better, Oblivion still brought me many more hours of enjoyment than just about anything else that has come out this gen. I can only speak for myself, but that is the basis of my excitement for Skyrim. Not solely the trailer. Just because not everyone is as sceptic or cynical about the game as you doesn't mean we don't have a good reason to be excited about the game.

[Ribs]

So long as it doesn't play like any of the prior ones or anything like Bethesda's handling of Fallout, it might be a good purchase.

[DAISHI]

So long as it doesn't play like any of the prior ones or anything like Bethesda's handling of Fallout, it might be a good purchase.

So basically there's no way you'll like it.

[GuybrushWilco]

So long as it doesn't play like any of the prior ones or anything like Bethesda's handling of Fallout, it might be a good purchase.

I liked Fallout 3 :) Although Fallout: New Vegas is superior in most respects. And this is coming from a fan of the first two games.

[Megaboz]

Again, I always hear this in regards to negativity, but never overt excitement based on little more than a teaser trailer. Why is that?

Being excited about something is fun and a good feeling. Being a negative nelly about it isn't. Logically, neither is more "valid", nor really matters, because ultimately its just a game we're talking about. But if either is equally as valid, might as well go glass-is-half-full. You can be an Eeyore if you want, but I think a lot of people don't like being that way, which is why they want to give things a chance!

Again, I'm super jazzed, even if it's just from a short trailer.

[MusicallyInspired]

Just because not everyone is as sceptic or cynical about the game as you doesn't mean we don't have a good reason to be excited about the game.

It doesn't mean that anyone doesn't have a good reason to be cynical either. Let's be fair and not stifle the perfectly valid opinions of both cynics and hype-ees alike, shall we? We're all running on the same information and until the game is actually out any opinion on the game is fair based on the information we have. Dashing was pointing out that the people who are excited about it who are quieting those with a negative opinion for not having enough information on the game aren't even basing their opinion on as much information as the cynics are. It's a bit of a double standard, don't you see? Positive doesn't always mean better. Just because a new game is coming out doesn't make it good. Although, I do agree that it looks spectacular.

[Gogeta504]

i saw the trailer it looks good but i never played 1-4 so i dont know whats going on can someone recap the whole thing lool thanks =) yeah #5 is awesome XD lool

[MusicallyInspired]

Recap the Elder Scrolls series? Hoo boy...

[waroftheworlds01]

I just assumed that the Dragons are the Oblivion gates of Skyrim. You go to where they are, kill them, and get some type of power for doing so.

[DAISHI]

i saw the trailer it looks good but i never played 1-4 so i dont know whats going on can someone recap the whole thing lool thanks =) yeah #5 is awesome XD lool

http://www.uesp.net/

There's no way to do it justice in a recap. It's millions of years of lore, history and the evolution of a state, from the Arena to now. But it involves two types of deity powers more complex than good and evil, and a multitude of races from many different countries.... okay already not doing it justice.

[waroftheworlds01]

But I think it's safe to say that you don't need to know about the previous games or the history of the Elder Scrolls to get into the games. I mean, I didn't play any of the ones before Morrowind. I only played a little of Morrowind. Yet I was able to understand what was going on just fine in Oblivion.

[StarEye]

It doesn't mean that anyone doesn't have a good reason to be cynical either. Let's be fair and not stifle the perfectly valid opinions of both cynics and hype-ees alike, shall we?

Er... I didn't?

[Rather Dashing]

But I think it's safe to say that you don't need to know about the previous games or the history of the Elder Scrolls to get into the games.
Really, it helps. I can understand why people who haven't played Daggerfall and Morrowind can like Oblivion. I mean, Oblivion has some serious problems aside from lore issues, but that's really it's largest fault. The gameplay issues are a mix between imperfect execution and ideas that look good on paper but don't quite translate as well to action as attempts at previous games. And since they aren't designed specifically to be dumb(though to be fun and accessible, which sometimes means the same thing), the next game in the series could very well be a fun game. And hey, Skyrim itself actually looks the way it was described in previous games, except now with dragons for some arbitrary reason, and that's a plus compared to a tropical rainforest turning into a fantasy temperate forest. Again, I'd like to stress that that is how bad Bethesda has gotten. They really don't care about making their world something real and consistent between games, they just make something that they think "looks badass" without really thinking it through. And it works. And that's disappointing, considering the reasons I found Daggerfall and Morrowind so engaging in the first place(the complex and realistic fantasy lore that was consistent between those two games).

So yeah, turn your brain off and you'll probably really like it. That's not meant as an insult, it's just that if you actually start trying to fit the games together, you won't be able to enjoy them anymore.

[Gogeta504]

http://www.uesp.net/

There's no way to do it justice in a recap. It's millions of years of lore, history and the evolution of a state, from the Arena to now. But it involves two types of deity powers more complex than good and evil, and a multitude of races from many different countries.... okay already not doing it justice.

ok dude just chill .. i didnt know the game was wayy tooo long !!! =P
i never played any of these games ... never mind what i said before

[MusicallyInspired]

Chill? He's not freaking out.

[Irishmile]

You all know dragons are not real right? :p

[Gogeta504]

Chill? He's not freaking out.

ok then nevermind -_-

[Rather Dashing]

You all know dragons are not real right? :p
I'm quite aware. I'm also aware that fictional worlds undertaking a massive change for no reason, especially when that change exists solely to make the world more typical, is an annoyance and a waste. I don't think I or anyone else in the thread implied that we thought dragons were real, that's quite silly.

[corruptbiggins]

...except now with dragons for some arbitrary reason...

Just a thought but if they had a plausible reason for stuff like the dragons would that make you feel better about the idea?

I also think that lore is something that can be changed if say new things were discovered which changed the way people viewed past and possible future events. I feel that in general lore isn't something set in stone and can change depending on things like different cultural viewpoints. One race's lore isn't often the same as another.

Of course I'm speaking generally, as I can't say I'm well versed in the lore of the Elder Scrolls, having only played a bit of Morrowind (I have been meaning to get back into it but I have to buy it again first) and Oblivion and I don't really remember or took in all that I read in the games.

[waroftheworlds01]

Really, it helps. I can understand why people who haven't played Daggerfall and Morrowind can like Oblivion. I mean, Oblivion has some serious problems aside from lore issues, but that's really it's largest fault. The gameplay issues are a mix between imperfect execution and ideas that look good on paper but don't quite translate as well to action as attempts at previous games. And since they aren't designed specifically to be dumb(though to be fun and accessible, which sometimes means the same thing), the next game in the series could very well be a fun game. And hey, Skyrim itself actually looks the way it was described in previous games, except now with dragons for some arbitrary reason, and that's a plus compared to a tropical rainforest turning into a fantasy temperate forest. Again, I'd like to stress that that is how bad Bethesda has gotten. They really don't care about making their world something real and consistent between games, they just make something that they think "looks badass" without really thinking it through. And it works. And that's disappointing, considering the reasons I found Daggerfall and Morrowind so engaging in the first place(the complex and realistic fantasy lore that was consistent between those two games).

So yeah, turn your brain off and you'll probably really like it. That's not meant as an insult, it's just that if you actually start trying to fit the games together, you won't be able to enjoy them anymore.

I didn't have as much problem with the gameplay as I did with the world itself.

I remember when they were showing off videos and demos of Oblivion. They made the world seem like it was so real. They had a video where you went into this ladies house. They showed how she would sweep at a certin time, and then the dog started barking and it was aggervating her so she paralized the dog, and then she came back later feeling sorry so she give the dog a potion to cure him.

Yeah, none of that made it into the game. Yes, they gave the character schedules to follow but it didn't make the world feel alive enough. It felt too much like the Truman Show. The same thing was happening over and over again. Even the bandits were the same. After a week or so they would respawn in the same spot. Nothing random happend to make this world feel real. I think Fable did a better job at creating a real world feel. You couldn't talk to everyone but at least there were a lot more people to give the game a more populated feel. Oblivion feels empty compaired to the population of Oblivion.

I'm hoping that for Skyrim we get a more realistic world. I want to see people do more than just wake up, walk in a circle the rest of the day, then go back to bed. They should have these people in the game do a bit more to make it feel like a real world.

I should probably say that I do like Oblivion. But I think that when it comes to Skyrim they should work on making the world a bit less scheduled and more random. So that way we don't see the same people doing the same thing ove and over again.