What's with all the aggression on this forum?

[Daventry]

I've mentioned before that I'm relatively new to these forums. I've been a huge King's Quest fan since I was a little kid, so a new KQ announcement naturally attracted me to this message board. At first I was quite excited to see such a dedicated community, but over the course of these past few weeks I've picked up on a fair bit of hostile aggression, making this place (in my opinion), not as pleasant as it could be.

I was just wondering if anyone else feels the same way? I've been active on several other adventure gaming forums throughout the years (SierraGamers, SierraForums, Cort-X, and even Sierra's own forums before they were shut down, just to name a few), and this one seems to have the most hostile group of posters by far.

I don't mean to single anyone out specifically. I understand that we're all quite opinionated and feel strongly about Sierra, Telltale, King's Quest, and Roberta Williams in one way or another. But the fact that we all share the same passion should bring us together, right?

If you feel the same way, maybe we can all (emphasis on all) try a bit better to stay cordial with our comments? And remember, we can always agree to disagree.

[Cez]

you can't really do that with Anakin around.... the guy turns any comment made into a hate TSL statement (even if it has nothing to do with it). And I'm not even kidding! I'm actually starting to seriously think there's something wrong with the guy. That just can't be normal.

But, other than that, I agree. This game will have tons and tons of things to love about, and tons of things to dislike about most likely. Just like any game based on something we all love that is not being made by the original designers.

[Irishmile]

SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!!!

Just kidding... nah stick around there are plenty of really great people here... There are also a few very opinionated people who for the most part mean you no harm.

you can't really do that with Anakin around.... the guy turns any comment made into a hate TSL statement (even if it has nothing to do with it). And I'm not even kidding! I'm actually starting to seriously think there's something wrong with the guy. That just can't be normal.

But, other than that, I agree. This game will have tons and tons of things to love about, and tons of things to dislike about most likely. Just like any game based on something we all love that is not being made by the original designers.

Not cool man... cut the guy some slack... I mean his Mom is dead.... The Emperor is creeping all over him... He cant touch his girlfriend because he is part of a religious cult... and his BFF just cut off his limbs and lit him on fire... EMPATHY DUDE... look it up... :D

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm quite vocal and passionate about my opinions, but I'm never hostile toward anybody. I respect each and every one here.

[Daventry]

MI, my post wasn't directed at you or anyone else in particular. More about us as a group on the whole and the overall vibes I've felt here thus far. I think being vocal is fine, and being passionate is awesome.

P.S. loved your work in KQIII :)

[wilco64256]

Yes some of us have had our hostile moments in the past and have since gotten over them.

Anakin, however, is solely responsible for the death-by-strangling of a great many stuffed giraffes. In fact I intend to see to it that strangling a stuffed giraffe makes it into our next game somehow.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Yes some of us have had our hostile moments in the past and have since gotten over them.

Anakin, however, is solely responsible for the death-by-strangling of a great many stuffed giraffes. In fact I intend to see to it that strangling a stuffed giraffe makes it into our next game somehow.

Cool!
Make sure it's an emo Giraffe who has an overly complex backstory.

[GuybrushWilco]

There has definitely been some negativity toward the new KQ. While I don't really believe most of it is warranted, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I wouldn't categorize the forum as hostile, but I have a feeling a lot of this will go away once we start getting more info on the game.

[Anakin Skywalker]

There has definitely been some negativity toward the new KQ. While I don't really believe most of it is warranted, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I wouldn't categorize the forum as hostile, but I have a feeling a lot of this will go away once we start getting more info on the game.

Na. This game is DOA.
The AGDI and TSL people managed to make it hip to hate even before a screenshot came out.

[KatieHal]

Cool!
Make sure it's an emo Giraffe who has an overly complex backstory.

Well, obviously. :) He'll be a bi nympho, too. With a blog.

[Falanca]

Cool!
Make sure it's an emo Giraffe who has an overly complex backstory.

You seem to be the only character named Anakin Skywalker that I actually like.

[KatieHal]

Na. This game is DOA.
The AGDI and TSL people managed to make it hip to hate even before a screenshot came out.

LOL. When have any of us said we would HATE the game? Concerns have been expressed, sure, some doubt here and there, but that's all.

For my part, I generally try my best to be courteous to everyone online.

[wilco64256]

That remains to be seen - I certainly won't ever be a hater, even if I don't like the game. I can just walk away and ignore it and do something else with my time.

My own personal feelings aside, somebody once said that "King's Quest fans are really difficult to please." Probably the understatement of the decade.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Well, obviously. :) He'll be a bi nympho, too. With a blog.

And he needs to have twelve minute long inner monologues about his tortured soul and his crushing sadness while looking at a hot transsexual Zebra. And he also needs to get into overlong conversations full of overly emotional cliches.

And he needs to be a sort of Chosen Giraffe who is really, unbeknown to him, the son of a member of a powerful, evil people and this needs to be revealed in an "OMG REALLY?" sort of fashion.

Go for it. Angst Quest.

[Daventry]

Na. This game is DOA.
The AGDI and TSL people managed to make it hip to hate even before a screenshot came out.

I'm a diehard KQ fan, I really enjoyed AGDI's games, and I also feel that Telltale's past games have been simplistic, yet I'm still optimistic and excited about their new KQ.

[Giant Tope]

Na. This game is DOA.
The AGDI and TSL people managed to make it hip to hate even before a screenshot came out.

yep it's a conspiracy.

[Anakin Skywalker]

yep it's a conspiracy.

No, just spitefulness, jealousy and resentment that TT got the license and they didn't. They feel they deserve the license more.

[Daventry]

No, just spitefulness, jealousy and resentment that TT got the license and they didn't. They feel they deserve the license more.

Come on Anakin, cut it out. This is exactly the kind of stuff I was talking about.

[wilco64256]

No, just spitefulness, jealousy and resentment that TT got the license and they didn't. They feel they deserve the license more.

Well I can't speak for the AGDI crew but I can say for certain that those of us over at Phoenix are perfectly content with how things have worked out.

[Rather Dashing]

No, just spitefulness, jealousy and resentment that TT got the license and they didn't. They feel they deserve the license more.
It's cool how you've completley made this up and made it the center of a crusade against a certain subset of forum users.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Well I can't speak for the AGDI crew but I can say for certain that those of us over at Phoenix are perfectly content with how things have worked out.

I'm sure :rolleyes:
Considering Cez told me in PM how it'd essentially be the worst thing ever back around December. How it'd be "make me wish (POS) got the license."

[wilco64256]

I'm sure :rolleyes:
Considering Cez told me in PM how it'd essentially be the worst thing ever back around December. How it'd be "make me wish (POS) got the license."

You'd be surprised how much can change in just a few months. Telltale's game may turn out to be totally awesome, I guess we'll see.

[MusicallyInspired]

MI, my post wasn't directed at you or anyone else in particular. More about us as a group on the whole and the overall vibes I've felt here thus far. I think being vocal is fine, and being passionate is awesome.

Oh, I realise that. I was just signing up my name for the non-hostile member roll call.

P.S. loved your work in KQIII :)

Thank you! :)

Well I can't speak for the AGDI crew but I can say for certain that those of us over at Phoenix are perfectly content with how things have worked out.

As a member of AGDI, we wish things would have gone differently seeing as we've quite a few complete titles to our name and we had some aspirations, but I'm honestly not surprised that ActiVision would choose Telltale over us. I'm just surprised that Telltale themselves were going after it all this time even when they knew that these fan groups had their own aspirations of acquiring the license for an official sequel(s) and have been working to that end for some time. Suddenly I felt like it was a race all along and whoever came out on top was the winner. This changed my view of Telltale somewhat from being a group that cared about fans to a simple business like any other out to make money on anything they could get their hands on and to acquire it at any cost. I'm not upset and I don't hate Telltale for it, I'm just disappointed that I was disillusioned.

[wilco64256]

I'm definitely excited about AGDI's upcoming original game. Planning to buy it and I hope you guys do really well with it.

[Daventry]

I'm definitely excited about AGDI's upcoming original game. Planning to buy it and I hope you guys do really well with it.

Oh yeah, I just saw the screenshots of Mage's Initiation yesterday, they look great! Very excited!

[KatieHal]

Oh yeah--I'm definitely looking forward to Mage Initiation, it looks cool and like it'll be a fun game :)

[Cez]

This was not what I was referring to, Anakin. Telltale has always been fine in my book. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Can you please point me to where we've said something bad about this game?

[Anakin Skywalker]

This was not what I was referring to, Anakin. Telltale has always been fine in my book. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Can you please point me to where we've said something bad about this game?

You guys (team wise) have been diplomatic, however...the fan game fans in general are the ones who I noticed have been the most against this game. They've gotten used to fanservice.

RIIIGHT. That's why you said something was going to happen in a few months with the KQ license that would make me wish you guys got the license. The only thing I can think of that's happened with the KQ license since that PM is TT announcing they got it...Odd.

[Icedhope]

Anakin if you don't cease with this behavior, it will warrant you and infraction and if it continues...I will warrant a ban.

[Cez]

You guys (team wise) have been diplomatic, however...the fan game fans in general are the ones who I noticed have been the most against this game. They've gotten used to fanservice.

RIIIGHT. That's why you said something was going to happen in a few months with the KQ license that would make me wish you guys got the license. The only thing I can think of that's happened with the KQ license since that PM is TT announcing they got it...Odd.

And this just shows how you know nothing about what was happening behind curtains. Like I said, stop putting words in my mouth. That's just unwarranted and honestly, annoying.

[Rather Dashing]

Also, I didn't particularly enjoy The Silver Lining, and I prefer 1:1 remakes(no offense intended, Cez and MI).

[Cez]

Also, I didn't particularly enjoy The Silver Lining, and I prefer 1:1 remakes(no offense intended, Cez and MI).

non taken, man. You are in all your rights to dislike our game. It has a very specific and different tone and that's a move we decided to take very consciously, but where everybody in the team was ok with it. I think it's like some people have said in the past, we are more akin to the KQ6 crowd --not everyone who liked KQ6 of course. But, we are happy with it, some things I would have done differently from the beginning in hindsight, especially toning down the melodrama --you live, you learn--, but overall I'm still very proud of it.

[Rather Dashing]

non taken, man. You are in all your rights to dislike our game.
"Dislike" is probably too strong. It just didn't suit my palette, I guess? I actually should probably give it another go at some point, actually, maybe when more of it is out. I don't know what I'd think of it if it was a commercial title or a "real" sequel, but I know it's not and that changes a lot about the way it's handled.

[tomimt]

As a member of AGDI, we wish things would have gone differently seeing as we've quite a few complete titles to our name and we had some aspirations, but I'm honestly not surprised that ActiVision would choose Telltale over us. I'm just surprised that Telltale themselves were going after it all this time even when they knew that these fan groups had their own aspirations of acquiring the license for an official sequel(s) and have been working to that end for some time. Suddenly I felt like it was a race all along and whoever came out on top was the winner. This changed my view of Telltale somewhat from being a group that cared about fans to a simple business like any other out to make money on anything they could get their hands on and to acquire it at any cost. I'm not upset and I don't hate Telltale for it, I'm just disappointed that I was disillusioned.

That's a bit naive view. Granted, you have done complete games, but most of them haven't been commercial and your only commercial game hasen't really proven, that you would be up to the task.

IMO it's all well and dandy, if fans create stuff for other fans, but it's a bit odd, if those same fans start to think, that because they've done some free stuff in the name of fandom, they're serious contenders in business world.

[Sslaxx]

This changed my view of Telltale somewhat from being a group that cared about fans to a simple business like any other out to make money on anything they could get their hands on and to acquire it at any cost. I'm not upset and I don't hate Telltale for it, I'm just disappointed that I was disillusioned.
I have to say, that comes across as having been a VERY naive viewpoint.

[blueskirt]

Unfortunately, a certain member here, who passionately hates The Silver Lining and never misses an opportunity to vomit bile on it and its creators, was so horrified to learn that Cez once expressed wishes to get a license from Activision and work on more Sierra titles, that upon hearing Telltale Games got it instead of him, this certain member became TTG's King's Quest #1 fanboy and decided to defend it with the same amount of fervor he shows when he demolishes TSL, because he is deeply convinced that Cez will get a license if TTG fails. And anyone here who has reserves based on TTG's past and present works or constructive criticism for the project is clearly a hater and an enemy and promptly get attacked by this certain member before being told "not to play it if you don't like it" (an advice this certain member obviously cannot follow when it comes to TSL), an attitude which tends to push everyone here on the edge.

I think that if you ignore this certain member's posts and forget the various replies his trolling generated, you will find that most people here are interested in the project, we want it to succeed, we want it to blow our minds away, each of us have constructive criticism, wishes and suggestions for this new King's Quest game, suggestions we believe will result in a better game, and we all hope its creators will grow in confidence and give these a serious thought while the project is still on paper, while it can be easily modified, and not when the first episode will be out and major changes will be impossible to implement. We don't necessary agree all the time, but most people here can debate in a civil manner.

This changed my view of Telltale somewhat from being a group that cared about fans to a simple business like any other out to make money on anything they could get their hands on and to acquire it at any cost. I'm not upset and I don't hate Telltale for it, I'm just disappointed that I was disillusioned.

Why can't it be both? Why can't they care about fans and make money in the process, so they can pay their employees, fund their next games and keep doing this job they love? Isn't it AGDI's goal too?

I don't believe AGDI had a chance of getting a license. Activision only cares for profit, between a small team that remakes old school adventure games, in 320 x 200, on PC and for free and a company that creates and advertises original games in 3D on multiple consoles, if you care for nothing but profit the choice is easy to make. Even if AGDI was alone in the race, I don't think Activision would have listened, between the moos of their five or six multi billion cash cows.

Like I pointed out on AGDI's forums, Telltale getting a license is probably the best thing that could happen to AGDI, because if I were them and wanted to remakes adventure games on a commercial level, I'd seize this opportunity to contact Activision (or even Telltale), show my download figures and try to persuade them to produce an indie old school remakes line alongside their 3D adventure games line, bringing my huge fanbase to Telltale's store.

[MusicallyInspired]

It's my opinion and my experience and I stand by it. Call me naive all you want.

[Lambonius]

Like I pointed out on AGDI's forums, Telltale getting a license is probably the best thing that could happen to AGDI, because if I were them and wanted to remakes adventure games on a commercial level, I'd seize this opportunity to contact Activision (or even Telltale), show my download figures and try to persuade them to produce an indie old school remakes line alongside their 3D adventure games line, bringing my huge fanbase to Telltale's store.

I actually think this would be a really good idea. Telltale would presumably be even more approachable than Activision, and if AGDI was able to get Telltale's backing, they'd be a lot more likely to get permission from Activision to sell their existing remakes commercially (which could open the door for future commercial efforts as well.)

Of course, (sorry, MI), AGDI would have to get over its pretty clear case of sour grapes first. ;)

[Valiento]

AGDI's remakes are fun and all but not up to the quality I'd be willing to fork money over for. I've had no interest in their Al Emmo either. I'm not much of a fan of the their close-up art style and other things. I'm also not particularly a fan of their changes to the story. It's way to complicated.

If TSL was being marketed I don't think I'd be willing to fork cash for it as well. It's not polished enough, and I certainly don't like the direction certain aspects of the story are taking. The first episode was only 30 minutes long!

I've gotten most of TellTale games, and so far I've mostly enjoyed every one. Perhaps my least favorite was Strong Bad, but that's probably because I don't entirely get the humor or I found the world to be to bland for my tastes. Some of the characters annoy me.

But I admit Telltale could do something to KQ that I wouldn't have interest in buying future seasons as well. But it's sure going to look alot more polished, and up to industry standards.

[MusicallyInspired]

My distaste for a Telltale KQ is not sprung from that, though. It's genuinely about how I've seen Telltale diminishing in the past and has nothing to do with them actually acquiring a license before anybody else. I should also note that not everybody on the AGDI team shares either opinion.

And yeah, making commercial remakes is all well and good but what if we wanted to make sequels? That can't happen now. Just making remakes can get boring. Why do you think we've been so creative to take such liberties with the storylines?

[Anakin Skywalker]

My distaste for a Telltale KQ is not sprung from that, though. It's genuinely about how I've seen Telltale diminishing in the past and has nothing to do with them actually acquiring a license before anybody else. I should also note that not everybody on the AGDI team shares either opinion.

And yeah, making commercial remakes is all well and good but what if we wanted to make sequels? That can't happen now. Just making remakes can get boring. Why do you think we've been so creative to take such liberties with the storylines?

We already got a sequel dealing with 1,000 year old plots, reinventions and utter re imaginings of key characters, deep conspiracies which tie all the originals together as tight as a Botox recipient's face. No thanks.

If KQ2VGA is any indication of what an AGDI sequel would be like, it'd be TSL without the emo-ness.

The only fan group I'd trust at this point is IA.

[wilco64256]

We already got a sequel dealing with 1,000 year old plots, reinventions and utter re imaginings of key characters, deep conspiracies which tie all the originals together as tight as a Botox recipient's face. No thanks.

If KQ2VGA is any indication of what an AGDI sequel would be like, it'd be TSL without the emo-ness.

The only fan group I'd trust at this point is IA.

It's actually pretty obvious that the only sequel you wouldn't utterly and totally hate is one that you made yourself as anyone who adds or changes anything in the KQ universe as you perceive it is immediately villified in your book. I hate to break it to you, but any company that does any sequel is going to add something to the series in some way, and while the quality of Telltale's take on the KQ series remains to be seen, one thing you can be totally sure of is that it will be radically different from any previous King's Quest.

[Anakin Skywalker]

It's actually pretty obvious that the only sequel you wouldn't utterly and totally hate is one that you made yourself as anyone who adds or changes anything in the KQ universe as you perceive it is immediately villified in your book. I hate to break it to you, but any company that does any sequel is going to add something to the series in some way, and while the quality of Telltale's take on the KQ series remains to be seen, one thing you can be totally sure of is that it will be radically different from any previous King's Quest.

Oh no, see, I have nothing against DIFFERENT.
I have a certain thing against shoehorning in modern fantasy CRAP and either:

1) Tying all the games tightly together in a ridiculous fashion (to me the games are standalone entities with only menial ties to each other. They're adventures, in much the same way that the Indiana Jones films are. References can be made to previous entries but there's not an overarching arc or conspiracy that binds everything together. I'm also not a Jane Jensen worshipper and don't think the KQ universe revolves around the Black Cloak Society)
2) Going a totally emo/soap opera route (Valanice trying to commit suicide, her father being Manannan, etc etc. KQ is not a soap opera.)

I liked the direction KQ7 and KQ8 took the series, and both were very different games and I'd have supported either direction.

I'm even excited for KOS and loved IA's prequel. So, no, I'm fine with change. Just not making backstories where it doesn't even make sense to or going all emo and gooey. I also don't support going the teenage fantasy route.

I like all sorts of fantasy stories, from the light funniness of the Hobbit and classical fairy tales, to the medium classical fantasy worlds of the Forgotten Realms, to the pulpish, eerie adventures of Conan the Cimmerian, and finally to the grimdark world of Warhammer Fantasy. So my tastes run the gamut but there's certain things I feel--given the past games--which fit in KQ and certain things that don't, couldn't, and shouldn't be tried.

See, for all it's flaws, KQ8 is an epic, in the tradition of Malory or JRR Tolkien--Not saying it's AS GOOD as either of those--but it's in that very medieval epic vein. TSL on the other hand...is very Twilight. Hopefully you can see the difference in quality between Twilight and LOTR.

[Valiento]

I have a hard time believeing Telltale will take the time to make hard references to previous KQ games, in great detail, or convoluted ways.

Especially since it would probably be confusing to new players introduced to the series. One of the reasons why the old games were so 'self-contained' was so that new players wouldn't be required to play older games to understand what was going on.

I'm sure Telltale will make a sophisticated story (and it'll probably be more sophisticated than most of the old KQ games), but while doing it, they'll probably avoid too many links to the older games (so that new players won't be required to play those games to understand what's going on).

Future seasons will likely then link more directly into the Telltale season, rather than the older games (similar to the structure Telltale has done with S&M).

Even ToMI is a pretty self-contained story, not requiring knowledge of the previous series. Even the intro makes references to Guybrush's previous adventure, and that adventure has nothing to do with EMI (but something completely unconnected to the previous series).

If TT's KQ is a true reboot, it won't really make direct references to the previous games at all, instead reinventing the world for a new audience.

[Lambonius]

KOS is VERY KQ5 in tone. The story is interesting, but not convoluted, and we've been very careful to try and capture a Roberta Williams dialog style, rather than a Jane Jensen one. Narrations are in 3rd person rather than 2nd ("Graham hangs his cloak on a nearby branch." rather than "You hang your cloak on a nearby branch.") I think fans of KQ5 will very much appreciate it.

[Anakin Skywalker]

I have a hard time believeing Telltale will take the time to make hard references to previous KQ games, in great detail, or convoluted ways.

Especially since it would probably be confusing to new players introduced to the series. One of the reasons why the old games were so 'self-contained' was so that new players wouldn't be required to play older games to understand what was going on.

I'm sure Telltale will make a sophisticated story (and it'll probably be more sophisticated than most of the old KQ games), but while doing it, they'll probably avoid too many links to the older games (so that new players won't be required to play those games to understand what's going on).

Future seasons will likely then link more directly into the Telltale season, rather than the older games (similar to the structure Telltale has done with S&M).

Even ToMI is a pretty self-contained story, not requiring knowledge of the previous series. Even the intro makes references to Guybrush's previous adventure, and that adventure has nothing to do with EMI.

If TT's KQ is a true reboot, it won't really make direct references to the previous games at all, instead reinventing the world for a new audience.

This.
I'm fine with sophistication. I mean it's not my cup of tea, I prefer simple but good, but I'll accept a sophisticated story that's also straightforward and true to KQ rather than one that's utterly twisted, convoluted and soap opera-ish.

See--Sophisticated does not have to equal melodrama.

And a reboot which starts things afresh could be really interesting if done right. I consider, for example, the Roger Moore version of James Bond to be a reboot from the Connery version...and I love them both because they're two great takes on the same character, while keeping the same general continuity and feel.

[Lambonius]

See--Sophisticated does not have to equal melodrama.


I would go so far as to call "sophistication" and "melodrama" polar opposites. Sorry, TSL.

[Anakin Skywalker]

KOS is VERY KQ5 in tone. The story is interesting, but not convoluted, and we've been very careful to try and capture a Roberta Williams dialog style, rather than a Jane Jensen one. Narrations are in 3rd person rather than 2nd ("Graham hangs his cloak on a nearby branch." rather than "You hang your cloak on a nearby branch.") I think fans of KQ5 will very much appreciate it.

Excellent news, given that KQ5 is my favorite game. The little screenshots you guys have put out look great. Personally I'd love to see an original KQ game done by IA.

[Lambonius]

Excellent news, given that KQ5 is my favorite game. The little screenshots you guys have put out look great. Personally I'd love to see an original KQ game done by IA.

Special care has been taken so that it slides into the continuity without disrupting, retconning, or altering any existing story elements of the series. Certainly, it's an all new story, but it is self-contained, and doesn't really affect the timelines around it, though there are allusions to other KQ games (namely KQ3) in there in places.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Special care has been taken so that it slides into the continuity without disrupting, retconning, or altering any existing story elements of the series. Certainly, it's an all new story, but it is self-contained, and doesn't really affect the timelines around it, though there are allusions to other KQ games (namely KQ3) in there in places.

And that right there Ladies, Gentlemen and TSL people, is how you do good fanfiction.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

I think the aggression and hostility we have all seen on this forum is as far from what King's Quest stands for as I can imagine...

I suggest an exercise. Look in the magic mirror and ask which KQ character your behaviour most resembles. If the answer pleases you, give yourself a pat on the back and carry on adventuring with your head held up high! :)

If the answer is less pleasing, there is no need to give up! Look again and ask which character you truly want to be like. Then click "Try Again", look through your inventory and consider all you have seen and heard. Good luck! ;)

[Irishmile]

TSL, AGDI, and IA games have all been really great... I love them and I would have gladly have paid money to have had a nice DVD copy sitting next to my other "official" games.... BUT now I am trying not to offend... but those game are really great and a lot of fun but they are NOT professional.. much of it still comes off as fan efforts while its good its NOT what I would expect from a Modern official product... For that I am glad that TTG has gotten the license... But I fully support you all and will gladly play any games you all make... I look forward to buying and playing Mage's initiation... I signed up to pre-order.

[Rather Dashing]

TSL, AGDI, and IA games have all been really great... I love them and I would have gladly have paid money to have had a nice DVD copy sitting next to my other "official" games.... BUT now I am trying not to offend... but those game are really great and a lot of fun but they are NOT professional.. much of it still comes off as fan efforts while its good its NOT what I would expect from a Modern official product... For that I am glad that TTG has gotten the license... But I fully support you all and will gladly play any games you all make... I look forward to buying and playing Mage's initiation... I signed up to pre-order.
I don't think it's fair to compare what a person does for free in their spare time and what a person does when it's their full-time job.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

I agree with what you just said, Rather, and I think it is a fallacy to believe that the result of any of the fan groups doing a commercial KQ title would be just like their fan games. I feel fairly safe in saying this, because my own approach to the small creative hobby projects I have done over the years has always been markedly different than to those conceived as commercial products. I think the same goes for each of the fan groups, to a greater or lesser degree.

[Bagriin]

I don't think it's fair to compare what a person does for free in their spare time and what a person does when it's their full-time job.

they make a good point

[Chyron8472]

stick around there are plenty of really great people here...

like me. :D


lol, but seriously. Speaking for myself, if I'm opinionated about things in this KQ forum, it's probably mostly nostalgia talking.

I got in on these forums when ToMI was coming out, and people around here can get on edge at times, but usually we are really pretty friendly.

Certain specific topics do seem to set people off though, like the whole Ron-Gilbert's-MI3 discussion that get so many people riled up, including myself.

[Valiento]

I don't think it's fair to compare what a person does for free in their spare time and what a person does when it's their full-time job.At least with AGDi one can compare the quality of their commercial games, Himalaya, they did release Al Emmo. Looking at screen shots it doesn't look much different than their fan games as far as technology is concerned. It still appears to use outdated VGA-style graphics. That style is outdated and simply not commercially viable. It really only appeals to to an extreme niche of indie gamers.

Telltales engine is modern, it looks good, and the company has proven their games sell. They sell to broad demographics. They likely have huge budgets to put towards the games as well. They update the technology with improved graphics with each game they release.

[MusicallyInspired]

Al Emmo is not VGA. It's 640x480, just in case you weren't aware. It's more detailed than the remakes. The problem is people don't see 2D gaming as viable when it could be.

[Valiento]

Thank you the screen shots don't adequately represent that, I stand corrected.

I also agree with your assessment. 2-d gaming got a bit of a life on the DS, but hasn't really been marketable on PC and consoles from what I've seen.

[der_ketzer]

Thank you the screen shots don't adequately represent that, I stand corrected.

I also agree with your assessment. 2-d gaming got a bit of a life on the DS, but hasn't really been marketable on PC and consoles from what I've seen.

which is a shame. Some of my favorite games of the last years are in 2-D.

[Irishmile]

I don't think it's fair to compare what a person does for free in their spare time and what a person does when it's their full-time job.

Yeah but that is kind of the point isn't it... I wasn't saying it was bad either.. Just a fan effort... My point was that they wanted the license and only had the games they have in their library as their argument for deserving it...

[Blackthorne519]

You want aggression? Talk to me when I don't have my coffee!!!

I have noticed some aggression from certain members, yeah, and from some it's really just born of a passion for King's Quest. I understand Anakin's concerns, but I think he's getting a little too worked up in his head over his distaste for TSL.

From my view, Cez has been nothing but excited and supportive of TTG's KQ. And I think people get down harshly on AGDI for being a little upset - I think it's understandable. You wouldn't be human if you weren't a little disapointed after all that you'd done with the King's Quest remakes. But even the AGD team has been supportive of TTG's effort now - I always see them talking about "supporting" the game.

There's always going to be dissent with a property that is beloved. People will fight and argue over the things they love the most - we'll just have to try and get through it all as with as much civility as we can muster.


Bt

[Valiento]

which is a shame. Some of my favorite games of the last years are in 2-D.
I think though there is a bit of a market for 2.5 D style games, and they have been relatively successful on various systems. Some even going as far as popup storybook look of Paper Mario. That might even fit the story book appeal of KQ in style.

[Chyron8472]

Al Emmo is not VGA. It's 640x480, just in case you weren't aware. It's more detailed than the remakes. The problem is people don't see 2D gaming as viable when it could be.

I'd say Al Emmo is a bad example of Himalaya's potential. I really couldn't stand that game.

[MusicallyInspired]

It still looks better than any of the remakes.

[Blackthorne519]

If anything, I wouldn't say Al Emmo suffers graphically - the game looks beautiful, really. The story is only so-so, and the voice acting is really grating. I really didn't find the lead character appealing in any way, shape or form.


Bt

[techie775]

Personally, if I had to, I'd pay money for the AGDI remakes. Especially Quest for Glory II VGA. They were that good. AGDI had the King's Quest style down, which makes me wonder of Activision's goals, to just bypass them like that. I don't want sell short Telltale, I thought TOMI was great, I just hope they'll have a better command system than just click or use inventory for this game.

[Rather Dashing]

They were that good. AGDI had the King's Quest style down, which makes me wonder of Activision's goals, to just bypass them like that.
Their goals are entirely monetarily-driven. Telltale has had financial success with what is considered a "similar" property(a legacy adventure game IP). Activision, like many of the companies that own the rights to legacy IPs in this genre, are incapable of seeing the nuances that radically separate adventure game properties. It's not about being evil, though. It's just their business and their job, and the genre and the creative side of things do not generally factor into what they're supposed to do.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Their goals are entirely monetarily-driven. Telltale has had financial success with what is considered a "similar" property(a legacy adventure game IP). Activision, like many of the companies that own the rights to legacy IPs in this genre, are incapable of seeing the nuances that radically separate adventure game properties. It's not about being evil, though. It's just their business and their job, and the genre and the creative side of things do not generally factor into what they're supposed to do.

Would've made them even more money if they farmed it out to an action game company and made KQ: MoE II. Maybe they should've done that, you wouldn't be complaining nearly as much.

[Bagriin]

seems to me like he is just trying to express an opinion, not so much complaining because they have the license

[Anakin Skywalker]

seems to me like he is just trying to express an opinion, not so much complaining because they have the license

http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=453492&postcount=6


NO.

Not with this company.
Not with this direction.

Telltale
IS NOT
SIERRA.

Not even on their BEST DAY.

They do not have the design philosophy of Sierra. They do not have the humor of Sierra. They do not have the art direction of Sierra. They have never made a Sierra-style game and they have proven time and time again that a game worthy of a license that is SO INGRAINED IN THE HISTORY OF THE ADVENTURE GENRE.

And no, CONTRARY TO WHAT SOME PEOPLE MAY BELIEVE, LucasArts and, by extension Telltale, is not a BETTER ALTERNATIVE to Sierra that "fixed" and "evolved" the genre by removing all the bad aspects of it left in by Sierra. Sierra was a powerfully distinct entity, with its own philosophy and approach that couldn't be more different from the LucasArts or modern Telltale way of doing things. Until now I've been disappointed in Telltale, but now I'm absolutely livid. How dare they. THEY DON'T F@#$%ING DESERVE IT. THEY HAVEN'T EARNED IT. THEY CAN'T DO IT.

[der_ketzer]

http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=453492&postcount=6

and I could completely understand his reaction after what they did with BTTF and most of The Devils Playhouse.

[Anakin Skywalker]

and I could completely understand his reaction after what they did with BTTF and most of The Devils Playhouse.

So, don't play it. Don't even bother.
You and others should drop the facade that you have anything more than hope that this game fails. It's easily seen through.

[GuyMonkeyBrush]

So, don't play it. Don't even bother.
You and others should drop the facade that you have anything more than hope that this game fails. It's easily seen through.

I have to agree with Anakin on this one. Hoping that something fails before it's release is ridiculously narcasistic and promotes nothing but anger. If you don't want to support the effort, simply leave. Win/Win situation. As for the previous comment of "Look what they did to BTTF..." What have they done? The only game that was available for BTTF was an NES game that had nothing to do with the movie. TTG brought us the feel of the movie which made it enjoyable. Let's see those arguing develop a game before commenting on how much you hate anything.

The only complaint I may have regarding BTTF is the lack of complexity. It did seem very linear, but Episode 2 made up a bit for it. I'm anticipating Episode 3 to move beyond my expectations because of the feedback provided by the community. If you don't promote what you enjoy, no one will listen and you will be left with nothing in the end.

[techie775]

I don't hope Telltale's KQ project fails, I just hope they can pull it off right and make it feel like a King's Quest game, not a Lucasarts version of a King's Quest game. But forums are meant to debate issues, not sit around and agree on everything. People are just pointing out obstacles with building a new KQ game.

[Rather Dashing]

and I could completely understand his reaction after what they did with BTTF and most of The Devils Playhouse.
It was a knee-jerk reaction at the announcement riding on the coattails of my reaction to Back to the Future: The "Game": Episode 2. It was expressed a tad less restrained than I care for in retrospect.

I have to agree with Anakin on this one. Hoping that something fails before it's release is ridiculously narcissistic
Wait, narcissistic? How? Where does ego and inflated self-worth come into the equation?

and promotes nothing but anger. If you don't want to support the effort, simply leave. Win/Win situation.
Sounds like a losing proposition to me. They get to hear the concerns well after the point where anything could actually be done about it? I get to be treated like some sort of outcast pariah in a community of people that I generally like, and that I've been an active part of since relatively far back in the company's history? Other people who don't like the direction this company is going get to feel alienated and like nobody thinks the same way they do? Lose/Lose/Lose/Lose/Lose/Lose/Win, more like.

As for the previous comment of "Look what they did to BTTF..." What have they done? The only game that was available for BTTF was an NES game that had nothing to do with the movie. TTG brought us the feel of the movie which made it enjoyable.
If someone punches you in the nuts, the next guy coming about and punching you in the gut doesn't improve the situation. And I hardly agree with it keeping the "Back to the Future feeling"(e.g., Doc's extremely limited animations and being put into situations where his animations can be forcibly limited), but that's an entirely different matter.

Let's see those arguing develop a game before commenting on how much you hate anything.
We should also remove user reviews on Amazon, until the users have verified that they're authors, manufacturers, engineers, video game designers, etc etc. It takes a chef to know when something's undercooked, a barista to know that your coffee is cold, a farmer to know that the fruit is rotten, and a trained maid to know that your room is a disorganized mess.

And as an aside, why does it take professional experience to be allowed to hold a pessimistic viewpoint, but excitement and support have a substantially lower bar of entry?

The only complaint I may have regarding BTTF is the lack of complexity. It did seem very linear, but Episode 2 made up a bit for it.
...

How?

I'm anticipating Episode 3 to move beyond my expectations because of the feedback provided by the community. If you don't promote what you enjoy, no one will listen and you will be left with nothing in the end.
What feedback? By the game development community? Because again, you're not supposed to make comments unless you've tried developing a game before.

[wilco64256]

I don't think that anybody here has said anything to the effect of hoping that Telltale's game fails. Quite to the contrary, the fan groups involved in making adventure games likely want to see this game be a commercial success to support the adventure game genre period. If this game bombs then it would become more difficult for fan groups to do their own commercial products as well.

[MusicallyInspired]

Hoping that something fails before it's release is ridiculously narcasistic and promotes nothing but anger. If you don't want to support the effort, simply leave. Win/Win situation.

Nobody ever said they wanted it to fail. If they did I imagine they wouldn't even be here. In fact, I'm specifically staying around to try and make sure King's Quest is the best it can be.

As for the previous comment of "Look what they did to BTTF..." What have they done?

Not much. :rolleyes:

[Chyron8472]

[post]

Pariah? How are you a pariah?

I admit, you have no qualms to strongly voice your opinion (especially when it's negative), but what's wrong with that? At least you have intelligent reason behind your arguement, rather than just flat out saying something is great or sucks for reasons that don't make sense (like some people.)


Oh and btw, I totally agree with the rest of your post.

[Rather Dashing]

Pariah? How are you a pariah?
You misread. I meant that if I was meant to accept that I and my viewpoint were inherently unacceptable and that, due to it, I should leave(and make everyone better off), I'd end up being essentially a pariah, separate from the normal flow of discourse(which was the point I was referring to in that section of my post).

[Chyron8472]

Ah. Okay then.