Why all the hate on JP:TG?

[Asian Inferno]

NOTE: It's a little long! :)

Intro:
Now I know we all love and are looking forward to the wonderful, "Jurassic Park: The Game". Otherwise we wouldn't be on here discussing and analyzing the JP movies and related medias themselves. But every time I see a site posting up something JP:TG related and it has a comments section, you tend to see a lot of negativity and criticism to the game and how it's being developed or shown.

Arguments:
So far the only arguments are:
*Bad Graphics
*Bad Animation
*Wrong Type of a Game (IE:Interactive Adventure)
*Wrong/Bad Gameplay (IE:QTE)
*Copying Heavy Rain
*Looks Boring
*The standard variants of: This Game ______ (Sucks, Is Bad, Is Sh!t, Is Crap, etc.)

Question:
Question is, how would you even respond to this (Not that you really should, cause they'll ignore you). You know stating these things won't change their minds. But why do you think they keep repeating these statements?

---

Response:
My personal opinions:
*Bad Graphics - To allow for the most time for developing and getting the game out, Telltale managed to update their engine as best they could without sacrificing time to make the game's core gameplay and designs as best they could. In addition, great graphics does not always mean great gameplay.
*Bad Animation - Because of it not being a high budget game (IE: Call of Duty, Halo, Mass Effect, Force Unleashed) the animators are doing the best they can within the time and effort given as mentioned above. It's not like they have a mo-cap studio either, they make do with what they can.
*Wrong Type of a Game (IE:Interactive Adventure) - Some of the people who state this are then asking for a sequel to a past JP game (IE: JP:OG), which isn't bad. But it couldn't be more perfect to have an interactive adventure game that parallels the experience in the movies.
*Wrong/Bad Gameplay (IE:QTE) - You couldn't get a more perfect formula for a game based on a movie. You've got the cinematic aspect with player input through the manipulations of varying prompts and triggers. Not only this, Telltale even rewards the player for failing by bringing forth an entertaining demise so the play will never be frustrated.
*Copying Heavy Rain - Well the developers already stated that they would draw inspiration from Heavy Rain, so this one seems attributed to ignorance of research.
*Looks Boring - First off it's a demo, this is only one small segment out of a much larger game, not everything it going to be like this. These people judge because they didn't want to play a JP game in the first place that was an FPS with high-end graphics. These are the COD generation of preteen-teen games who are adrenaline junkies with ADD complexes who need constant action/violence on the screen. In their world if it's not the aforementioned criteria, it is boring.
*The standard variants of: This Game ______ (Sucks, Is Bad, Is Sh!t, Is Crap, etc.) - Again this can be attributed to judgment by a demo and the aforementioned audience of today's youth in gaming. This isn't to say every teen is like that, but a vast majority of kids are and if you've been online in say Xbox Live or PSN you would encounter such an example. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it appears that some opinions should not be taken into account when research and lack of analysis brings forth a one sentence judgment of such.

Conclusion:
I enjoy the FPS genre a lot (Especially Halo), but I also love other types of games as well. I don't feel that JP:TG is any less better than those types of games. But it's once we actually experience the games for themselves with no bias that an appropriate response can be developed. I'm not here to say that Jurassic Park: The Game will be the best Jurassic Park game out there; I hope it will be, but I can't have a final judgment yet. So far, everything I've personally seen from the Gameplay to the Concept Arts and Videos all imply a group who are as passionate about Jurassic Park and Games in general that are trying to develop a "definitive JP game". But we'll just have to wait and see how it actually turns out.

I also have to note the level of criticism and feedback from fans that Telltale seems to be listening to as well, which is a key aspect in appealing to the buyers/players of the game. Here's hoping it all not for naught.

[Dr.Dino]

But why do you think they keep repeating these statements?

Stereotypes and teenager intellectual egocentrism.

Basically you shouldn't give a damn, unless you're part of them.

[Tyrannosaur87]

I really question why people are hating on this game. From what's been revealed to us, it looks fine. The graphics are suitable, and exceptionally well given Telltale's style, the gameplay suits the movie feel, and for the budget it was given, it looks really solid. A lot of people out there are automatically labeling this game as a fail simply because it isn't a FPS with Crysis-esque graphics. It doesn't have to be that way for every game that comes out. PErsonally, I find FPS games to be boring and repetative (i.e. shooting people and blowing shit up til your pickup arrives), and there's just way too many of them. Secondly, Jurassic Park isn't about shooting dinosaurs. It never has been, and it never will be. Honestly, watch all 3 movies and tell me how many dinosaurs met their death at the hands of a gun. The answer: 0. It'd be an insult to the mythos of the film to waste a game on an FPS engine (the exception being Tresspasser, which was an amazing game for it's time).

[DFSpace]

In my opinion if there are too many bratty kids out there who think that the only types of games there should be are ones where you can be violent, break into cars and speed around a city or ones where you are shooting, stabbing or blowing people up. Violence is fun for them. Having to think, admire the actual graphics and get "into" the game such as being there at Jurassic Park, being one of the team is totally out of the question.

Sure RPG games such as Fable, Knights of the Old Republic do well, but come no where near the popularity of a game where you are expected to spread someones brains out on the road.

This game has violence in it, but its a different kind to shooting someone COD style. For some that does not interest.

I'm really looking forward to this game. I've been a fan of JP as I went to the cinema for the original film.

As with life, let the haters hate, and the players play.

[Peacemaker613]

Im 13 and im not like other teens and im glad to be honest i was trying to defend this game (like you said they ignored me) mainly because im a jp fanboy and i like that telltale actually gave us the meaning of jurassic park.The graphics are pretty decent its not amazing but i can live with it i hate those snobby kids who always ask for more. And this is more realistic in my point of view than any dinosaur shooting game if u were on an island full of energetic dangerous dinosaurs would u randomly get a machine gun with unlimited ammo out of thin air or would you get the hell outta there and to be honest when i get the game ima mess up on purpose because i like violence.To be honest i was spectacle about this game at first because all jp games b4 it REALLY left me down (only exception is Genesis) i remeber reading a comment on youtube that said that this game will be another let down dont knock it till u try it folks im really anxious for this game

[waroftheworlds01]

This really makes me mad as well. But I try to ignore it all but sometimes I can't help myself. Especially because a lot of the bad things they have to say just arn't true at all. I really hate when the say the graphics are bad. I'm not sure how the hell you can think they graphics are bad. I mean, there are games with more realistc graphics but just because the graphics in Jurassic park don't look as good as another game doesn't automaticly made them bad.

As for the gameplay, some just can't go beyond FPS. Which is bad for them. If they can't try anything new or worse (refuse to try anything new and say that it sucks because it's not their type of gameplay) the that's their fault. And screw them. This game will be awesome.

[Neko20]

amen to you all

[Ofnir]

I'm a fan of pretty much every genre of gaming, so I don't really care what the format is, as long as its done well. I think the adventure/quicktime format has potential here. As for the graphics...well, I still play our old NES from time to time and I'm an avid minecrafter, so I can take 'bad graphics' if the game is good. The graphics here aren't completely amazing, but they're pretty decent and capture the feel of the movie, from what we've seen in the previews.

And honestly, I can't see a traditional style FPS for JP. An open roam first person game could be interesting, but you'd need to find a balance between shooty and puzzles that are challenging, but not hair-rippingly frustrating. Also might add tranquilizer effects if going that route, since most of the stuff on the island was animal control stuff. If you went with trespasser/lost world style stuff then there's more potential for the shooting aspect, but I think the tendency would be too much to the shooting aspect for most developers.

[Falanca]

*Bad Animation - Because of it not being a high budget game (IE: Call of Duty, Halo, Mass Effect, Force Unleashed) the animators are doing the best they can within the time and effort given as mentioned above. It's not like they have a mo-cap studio either, they make do with what they can.

Then, uh, I dunno, do not have SIX projects on hold at the same time to, you know, put more consideration to what you ARE doing, so that you can offer better animations? It's not like Telltale CAN'T do it. Look at ToMI or Sam and Max Season 1 and 2... Everything looks so lively. And then, you take a look at BTTF and see how choppy ALL the animations are. I'm sorry, I agree with everything else but here, it's kind of Telltale's own fault.

[_djs_]

I hate this game because we are waiting for ages for his release!

[David Arthur]

In my opinion if there are too many bratty kids out there who think that the only types of games there should be are ones where you can be violent, break into cars and speed around a city or ones where you are shooting, stabbing or blowing people up. Violence is fun for them.

This, at least, is nothing new. In another dinosaur game I had circa 1992, the object was largely survival, but I knew people who would go out of their way to attack every dinosaur they saw, and refused to believe me when I told them that all they were doing was risking their safety unnecessarily. Everyone knows that computer games give you points for killing things, right?

I'm still sceptical about the degree to which Telltale seem to be headed into ‘interactive movies’; yes, their source material is a movie with an element of constant danger, but the same was true of the Indiana Jones films, and that didn’t stop Fate of Atlantis from working as an adventure game. And it’s a bit discouraging that most of the reviewers seem to enjoy the death animations more than the game itself. But all we’ve seen so far is a small dmeo, and I’m willing to give them a chance — it may be a lot more impressive when it comes together as a whole.

[Joris]

Have to agree with Asian Inferno,

Games these days are all about high graphics and multipalyers shooting.
When i was younger it took months to finish a game, now even the "hardest" of the new games out takes me max one day.
I'm glad Telltale takes time to create a story..not just mindless blowing dino's to pieces.
As for the grafics, yeah maybe they could be beter, but i rather have a good game then a game that looks good.

So thanks Tellgame for all the effort they put in this game, so many designers creating games for movies don't even have seen the movie themself. With the interviews i've seen from telltale i can see that JP fans are creating this game.

[trocks]

I agree with Asian Inferno, as well. This is the very reason I never like to read comments on YouTube pages, or even CNN articles for that matter, it's just depressing.

I am a Jurassic Park fan and I am very excited about this release because I want a Jurassic Park experience. I want to feel like I'm back in the park with true dinosaurs and characters. If Telltale needs the extra time to create a game that gives me that feeling, then I am willing to wait a little longer. I also don't expect movie quality graphics from a video game, we all know that will either cost a fortune or crash most of our computers. I love that I will get a solid story and enjoyable gaming experience for such a reasonable price. Besides, from what I have seen so far, the details look pretty amazing to me!

[Peacemaker613]

also i love that telltale made this half the price of what the price is for new fps games

[Asian Inferno]

Then, uh, I dunno, do not have SIX projects on hold at the same time to, you know, put more consideration to what you ARE doing, so that you can offer better animations? It's not like Telltale CAN'T do it. Look at ToMI or Sam and Max Season 1 and 2... Everything looks so lively. And then, you take a look at BTTF and see how choppy ALL the animations are. I'm sorry, I agree with everything else but here, it's kind of Telltale's own fault.

Maybe, but it could have been a decision based on the agreement/deal with Universal. "We're giving you license to this game but you have ___ months to have it out (and/or meet this checkpoint in development) or we'll revoke said license." Telltale is a fairly small game company compared to most, and a chance to acquire and develop big license games is probably a lot harder than a big company with a lot under it's belt already.

With that said, if your point were true I'd agree that it is not smart to do such a thing. But I highly doubt Telltale is the type to overload themselves more so than they could handle. Especially with the bad reputation most licensed games turn out to be, cheap with minimal effort in order to cash in for opening night. You've seen the effort they've put into the games, from staying true to the original source, to maintaining contact with the license holder, as well as listening to the fans. You don't get that with too many companies, and Telltale has thus far been a company devoted to putting at least that much effort into it.

[Falanca]

But I highly doubt Telltale is the type to overload themselves more so than they could handle. Especially with the bad reputation most licensed games turn out to be, cheap with minimal effort in order to cash in for opening night.

I was believing in the same things. Then I played BTTF:TG.

[Lambonius]

I was believing in the same things. Then I played BTTF:TG.

I think it's clear that BttF was a major misstep for the company, design-wise. They pushed the "interactive movie" idea way too far, to the point where there essentially is no actual "game" left. Another major problem is the fact that what IS there is not very high quality (poor animations, lifeless environments, repeated character models, etc. etc. etc.)

Here's hoping JP isn't plagued with the same issues. From the excuses Telltale has been giving regarding BttF, it seems that Universal's insistence on appealing to casual non-gamers was the driving force behind those terrible design decisions.

Go figure, let's license material to a game company and then ask them to do the exact opposite of what they do best, which is making GAMES.

[leon101]

I go by my opinion of a game, and my opinion only. Others can f*** off. Rude way of putting it, I'm sure. But that's just me. On a side note, I'm also awaiting the delivery of my Mortal Kombat for PS3. :D

[HooblaDGN]

I like BTTF

[samusaran253]

The demo is out? On Xbox Live? Or PC demo only?

[_djs_]

The demo is out? On Xbox Live? Or PC demo only?

There's no demo!

We just want the fu***** game!

[Falanca]

I think it's clear that BttF was a major misstep for the company, design-wise. They pushed the "interactive movie" idea way too far, to the point where there essentially is no actual "game" left. Another major problem is the fact that what IS there is not very high quality (poor animations, lifeless environments, repeated character models, etc. etc. etc.)

Here's hoping JP isn't plagued with the same issues. From the excuses Telltale has been giving regarding BttF, it seems that Universal's insistence on appealing to casual non-gamers was the driving force behind those terrible design decisions.

Go figure, let's license material to a game company and then ask them to do the exact opposite of what they do best, which is making GAMES.

Making an interactive movie which does not have;
-Animations in mediocre fluidity at best,
-Rewards for players exploring the playground and doing unexpected things,
-ANY brainworking puzzles other than "hit this switch and hit that one later", in which case switches are ALWAYS in the same scene;

...is, in my opinion, lazy work. It's lazy work, because they can't mess around with their schedule anymore, they have to get everything in time. The design decisions are not made because developers thought such ideas would work "well", they are made because they wanted to finish with the game in a short amount of time. Animations were done within a rush, NO thought were given for little anectodes and all effort went into the main storyline of the game, puzzles were cheaply implemented on the storyline (if you get rid of all those puzzles, the storyline could still drive itself; meaning puzzles feel like they were placed in the last minute just to give the players to pass time between scenes). Designing such a game is NOT a hassle, at least, not a hassle for a company that also designed Sam and Max Season 2 (the season I like the least out of all Sam and Max seasons, to be fair). It's so obvious that they went with these design choices just to save time. And there I come and say; if you want time, DON'T CRAM YOUR SCHEDULE UP.

I also think "Universal only gave us 3 months ;-;" is a throwaway excuse. Apart from the Bluray set of Back to the Future which has the first episode of the game in it, there is NO reason why Universal should hassle them. First episode was easy, wasn't being worked on that well but in the end; it was a "first episode" and made the season's introduction, it was expected to be easy and all. After that point they could just borrow theirselves another month to wax things up... or no no no, they could STILL deliver BTTF in a monthly schedule. How, you may ask? Simple. By NOT dividing their staff into several groups that are working on different games so that more considerate effort could go into only one or two games. If they're a small company (which is their excuse when they don't satisfy the already lowered down expectations), they should know it better than myself that they shouldn't divide the staff into even smaller groups.

People preordered BTTF either because they trusted Telltale or they trusted the name of "Back to the Future". If you look at all the sales, BttF:tG is a success, and that might be why Universal gave them a THIRD license. But what I believe is that they won't get as many preorders for upcoming games, and their profit will be dependent on the game's quality. And if they continue to offer such easily forgettable gaming experiences, that won't be really good for the company's future.

[waroftheworlds01]

So what we're all trying to say is.... JURASSIC PARK:THE GAME WILL BE AWESOME NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS!!!! lol

I can't wait to play it!!!

[Falanca]

So what we're all trying to say is.... JURASSIC PARK:THE GAME WILL BE AWESOME NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS!!!! lol

No.

[jpark_08]

Making an interactive movie which does not have;
-Animations in mediocre fluidity at best,
-Rewards for players exploring the playground and doing unexpected things,
-ANY brainworking puzzles other than "hit this switch and hit that one later", in which case switches are ALWAYS in the same scene;

...is, in my opinion, lazy work. It's lazy work, because they can't mess around with their schedule anymore, they have to get everything in time. The design decisions are not made because developers thought such ideas would work "well", they are made because they wanted to finish with the game in a short amount of time. Animations were done within a rush, NO thought were given for little anectodes and all effort went into the main storyline of the game, puzzles were cheaply implemented on the storyline (if you get rid of all those puzzles, the storyline could still drive itself; meaning puzzles feel like they were placed in the last minute just to give the players to pass time between scenes). Designing such a game is NOT a hassle, at least, not a hassle for a company that also designed Sam and Max Season 2 (the season I like the least out of all Sam and Max seasons, to be fair). It's so obvious that they went with these design choices just to save time. And there I come and say; if you want time, DON'T CRAM YOUR SCHEDULE UP.

I also think "Universal only gave us 3 months ;-;" is a throwaway excuse. Apart from the Bluray set of Back to the Future which has the first episode of the game in it, there is NO reason why Universal should hassle them. First episode was easy, wasn't being worked on that well but in the end; it was a "first episode" and made the season's introduction, it was expected to be easy and all. After that point they could just borrow theirselves another month to wax things up... or no no no, they could STILL deliver BTTF in a monthly schedule. How, you may ask? Simple. By NOT dividing their staff into several groups that are working on different games so that more considerate effort could go into only one or two games. If they're a small company (which is their excuse when they don't satisfy the already lowered down expectations), they should know it better than myself that they shouldn't divide the staff into even smaller groups.

People preordered BTTF either because they trusted Telltale or they trusted the name of "Back to the Future". If you look at all the sales, BttF:tG is a success, and that might be why Universal gave them a THIRD license. But what I believe is that they won't get as many preorders for upcoming games, and their profit will be dependent on the game's quality. And if they continue to offer such easily forgettable gaming experiences, that won't be really good for the company's future.

Quoted for the truth. I really hope Jurassic Park doesn't fall into the same shortcomings.

[anthoto1]

A lot of damage control in this topic.

[corruptbiggins]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg8sgoAVQg1qd7uzr.gif

[xureus]

I like BTTF

I found almost nothing to be wrong with BTTF: The Game. To me it looks very lovely crafted and I enjoyed the first 3 episodes heavily.

@topic:
To me the definite JP game is Trespasser and I'd have prefered a sequel to that game but I'm looking forward to TT's Jurassic Park game.
I played Heavy Rain and it was an awesome game. I think it is great that TT got inspired by it (David Cage wanted other devs to get inspired by his work on Heavy Rain).
If BTTF and TT's previous games are anything to go buy JP will not disappoint!

[Asian Inferno]

A lot of damage control in this topic.
Damage control?

[Peacemaker613]

to me it looks like only one person is bashing JPTG *cough* Falanca *cough* *cough

[Lambonius]

to me it looks like only one person is bashing JPTG *cough* Falanca *cough* *cough

You must not be able to read then.

He said almost nothing about JP in any of his posts in this thread. He was talking exclusively about the disappointing BttF, and more generally about Telltale's strict episodic business model, which is now very clearly starting to adversely affect the quality of their games.

[econojo]

Wow, major disappointments recently amongst trusted developers. First Telltale, then Valve, what next? Duke Nukem Forever is going to suck?

[Falanca]

Duke Nukem Forever is going to suck?

Would that really be an unexpected disappointment?

[Asian Inferno]

Wow, major disappointments recently amongst trusted developers. First Telltale, then Valve, what next? Duke Nukem Forever is going to suck?
Wait, what was up with Valve?

[leon101]

Would that really be an unexpected disappointment?

After years upon years, Duke Nukem Forever better be f****** great.

[SHODANFreeman]

JP:TG will not be a game. You will click on a button to continue watching an ugly poorly animated movie. Your only "choices" will be "does the character die, and make me retry pushing the button, or do I push the button successfully the first time". It literally may as well be a $30 machinima that forces you to push buttons from time to time to continue watching.

[doodo!]

I honestly don't agree that BTTF is too much like a movie, the gaming puzzles are like game puzzles, and wouldn't make very exciting, interesting, story elements in a movie. While as a game, it feels and functions as a game, and not a interactive movie. There are few cut scenes....Apart from this, it's too cartoon in a intellectual sense, not just a visual sense, to be a movie, it's more like a animated video game, which it is one...It's not Heavy Rain which gets more typical arguments of this breed.

I could not disagree more.



I'd think TTG would get some respect for their work with Lucas Arts and Monkey Island. Also, Sam n Max, and I guess BTTF... But people "hate", and I don't feel like pushing into the envelop right now, to pull out why...

*sighs*, people really are getting carried away with the hate. They've been upfront with the type of gaming genre this is, I happen to like it , and it looks like they nailed it! It looks perfect for a Heavy Rain type of JP game...

[Falanca]

Wait, what was up with Valve?

Might be Portal 2. I haven't bought it myself, but there are people bashing it as well as praising it. I guess single player campaigns were too short and easy, and two player mode has Valve's infamous trading system which had ruined Team Fortress 2.

[davey77]

hey guys,

new to telltale, and gaming in general. I just wanted to say that though i can fully understand why these games may not satisfy the dedicated or advanced gamers out there, that can be a positive.

i myself know loads of gamers. the director of the film im currently crew on actually works in game development as his day job (we're an indie production) but gaming has never attracted me.

i get bored very easily with games, especially FPS because i just dont get it. i wholeheartedly admit that its not the games fault. i just dont understand the attraction.

however

being a bttf and jp fan since i was a child, ive decided to give these a go purely because theyre NOT fps games which involve high end graphics and more buttons that i have fingers! as a result, i played through bttf episode 1 in one night! i know that may sound like it was too easy, but i really enjoyed myself.

the criticism of the games "push buttons and complete tasks to advance the story" process is actually one of the reasons i love it. i found it like abook i couldnt put down. i really wanted to know what happens next, and do do that i had to work. i also love the fact that there are lots of in jokes that hardnend fans like myself will recognise. i also love the fact that alot of the choices made you think what would MARTY do, not what would i do... the writers have kept true to the character's personalities.

again, i totally get why regular gamers are finding this a bit slow game wise, but just think of the new to gaming people like me who are getting drawn in by these games. who knows, one of us might get so involved with gaming that we make the next halo! ok maybe not me, but someone might.

i totally had the same thing myself with guitar hero. i hated it as im a proper musician and i felt it make kids think of guitar as something that it isnt. however, i have since decided that if it gets kids listening to decent rock and pop classics instead of westlife and the x factor types, and maybe even inspires them to pick up a REAL instrument, wheres the harm in that?

cannot wait for jp game!!!

[SHODANFreeman]

We aren't mad because you have to solve puzzles to advance the story. Check out our join dates, we have bought and played pretty much everything Telltale has ever made. We're mad because there are no puzzles that require more than the intellect of a 2nd grader. The game holds your hand the entire time, and skips over hundreds of possible puzzles by just doing them for you.

It's pretty much the equivalent of if id Software were to release Doom 4, and instead of fast twitchy shooter action, all you had to do was find the enemies and click on them once, and they would die. The reason we like adventure games is for puzzles that make us think. Without any puzzles that require any real logical thought, what is the point?

There is little, if any, thought required to complete BttF. The reason Heavy Rain is far superior to BttF and JP:TG is that in Heavy Rain, you are not just pushing buttons to keep watching, you are making choices as the story progresses, and the way you play the game can affect the storyline drastically. There is nothing like this present in BttF, and I highly doubt they have done anything similar with JP:TG.

[Falanca]

hey guys,

new to telltale, and gaming in general. I just wanted to say that though i can fully understand why these games may not satisfy the dedicated or advanced gamers out there, that can be a positive.

i myself know loads of gamers. the director of the film im currently crew on actually works in game development as his day job (we're an indie production) but gaming has never attracted me.

i get bored very easily with games, especially FPS because i just dont get it. i wholeheartedly admit that its not the games fault. i just dont understand the attraction.

however

being a bttf and jp fan since i was a child, ive decided to give these a go purely because theyre NOT fps games which involve high end graphics and more buttons that i have fingers! as a result, i played through bttf episode 1 in one night! i know that may sound like it was too easy, but i really enjoyed myself.

the criticism of the games "push buttons and complete tasks to advance the story" process is actually one of the reasons i love it. i found it like abook i couldnt put down. i really wanted to know what happens next, and do do that i had to work. i also love the fact that there are lots of in jokes that hardnend fans like myself will recognise. i also love the fact that alot of the choices made you think what would MARTY do, not what would i do... the writers have kept true to the character's personalities.

again, i totally get why regular gamers are finding this a bit slow game wise, but just think of the new to gaming people like me who are getting drawn in by these games. who knows, one of us might get so involved with gaming that we make the next halo! ok maybe not me, but someone might.

i totally had the same thing myself with guitar hero. i hated it as im a proper musician and i felt it make kids think of guitar as something that it isnt. however, i have since decided that if it gets kids listening to decent rock and pop classics instead of westlife and the x factor types, and maybe even inspires them to pick up a REAL instrument, wheres the harm in that?

cannot wait for jp game!!!

You got it all wrong. Telltale always delivered quality adventure games and most of us are in fact, similar to you. I don't like FPS as well, I find it redundant. I believe the adventure titles show the creativity the best, out of all other genres of gaming. From what I read, I guess you're a newcomer to adventure gaming, which is great. Adventure fandom needs to be a lot more crowded.

Adventure gaming is NOT push buttons and go forward. Although, yes, there are people ACTUALLY saying it, and they all are simply hypocrites, since there is more repetition to sports games or FPSs than to adventure games. However, there is one thing me and some other people disagree about; BTTF being a good game (and JP turning out to be a good game). Now, I'm not sure, but it seems to me that BTTF is the first adventure game you've ever played. That's great, but if you browse through the forums you'll see that more veteran players have many complaints about it. The reason of that is that BTTF is surely NOT the first adventure game THEY have played, so they compare the title to other games. Which other games?

When there weren't dual core processors and hell, DDR RAMs; when there were NO 3D games (some of them just tried to give you the illusion of third dimension while being 2D but whatever), one of the most acknowledged genre of gaming was adventure (there were also Nintendo and Sega, Dungeons and Dragons type of board games and FMV action titles for PC I guess, I'm sorry if I'm listing things from totally unrelated gaming eras but I believe they're close enough) and there were many classics titles from that age, such as Maniac Mansion, Sam and Max: Hit the Road or Secret of Monkey Island. Now in the gaming era we're in, most of people are oblivious to those titles, but there ARE people STILL playing such games on their PC for nostalgia. They were brilliant, classic, made for artistic reasons instead of economical reasons. And those games were hard. Item combinations, dialouges, and sometimes getting your timing right; those games were more tough than your brain training puzzles in your sunday newspaper.

And we're back on today. In an era where everyone makes games about blowing up cars or holding pistols, one company, namely Telltale Games, started to make games about such discontinued classics from back in the day, the ones that were about being a pirate or rescuing Giraffe-necked girls from evil country stars. They made sequels to the old games, like Sam and Max (most successful series Telltale has produced, inb4 "Monkey Island is bettuh") or Monkey Island. They got the attention of the fans of old gaming. They got successful, for a really small gaming company that's a real accomplishment.

After that point onwards, they got new licenses that may rocketboost their fame even further. But unfortunately; 1) those licenses were not even remotely related to the ones Telltale offered until now, and 2) they got so many licenses at once the quality of each game they release seems to decrease. And that's where old fans started to complain. In this case we're talking about the second reason. BTTF is a choppily executed game compared to the other brilliant games this genre offers, INCLUDING what Telltale has done before. There aren't many places to go, things to do, brainworking puzzles to solve, and fluid animations to see which helps building the atmosphere. It's not about, like, we don't like adventure games, we're FANS of adventure games for years. You see, don't get offended or anything, but you're seeing the top of the iceberg.

[davey77]

falanca,

all good points. as i said, you veteran gamers are probably finding bttf a bore. many of my hardened gamer friends wouldnt even bother with this. i was merely stating a POSITIVE way of looking at it.

i understand what you mean about the puzzles not requiring alot of brain power. they are pretty easy, but again that just makes it less intimidating to us newbies.

and its not the first adventure game ive played. back in the 90s i played doom, most of the pokemons, a bit of tomb raider. i just always found them too involved for me to pick up. i losttrack of games in the early 2000s, and aside from bttf the only games i play are grand theft auto (on pc)because of the free roam element - and that the individual missions are sort of puzzles in themselves.

yeah i suppose youre right, i am only seeing the "tip of the iceberg", but thats my point. it was a good tip to see, and now im inclinded to see what else is beneath the surface.

[davey77]

oh and as far as "when there wernt dual core processors etc" im a megadrive child. i had to explain to a kid what a mini disc was the other day.

so im right with you there ;)

[Falanca]

and its not the first adventure game ive played. back in the 90s i played doom
FPS.

most of the pokemons
RPG.

tomb raider
Action/adventure, which has its big differences.

Okay uhh, I'm sorry, I'm nitpicking no longer. It is true that BTTF:The Game attracts new Adventure players to the genre, which is the ONLY excuse Telltale can use at the time to reason out the low difficulty level, and it's a positive effect. If you ask me, the only positive effect and it's not that much of a spectacular one, especially if you're also alienating your already acquired fandom at the same time.

By the way, to show you the special aspects of adventure games I suggest you to play Sam and Max series. If you find the games too expensive (there are three individual titles completely developed and published by Telltale, first two seasons being 25 and third being 35 dollars), just wait and have an eye on the discounts on the Telltale store.

oh and as far as "when there wernt dual core processors etc" im a megadrive child. i had to explain to a kid what a mini disc was the other day.

so im right with you there ;)

Same here. To be honest, at the time I wasn't even exposed to the PC gaming so I didn't know much about adventure games since I was all about platforming.

[Peacemaker613]

Would that really be an unexpected disappointment?

i have to agree with falanca on that sorry but duke nukem looks pretty dumb

[SHODANFreeman]

The concept of an easy game to cater to adventure gaming newbies is similar to the idea of giving someone a tricycle to teach them how to ride a bicycle. A better solution is adding training wheels to a bicycle and easing them into actually riding on their own. If BttF had multiple difficulty settings with varying levels of hints and more/better puzzles at higher difficulty, it could have been great, instead, it's just a watered down "click to continue" drawn out cutscene.

[HooblaDGN]

The concept of an easy game to cater to adventure gaming newbies is similar to the idea of giving someone a tricycle to teach them how to ride a bicycle. A better solution is adding training wheels to a bicycle and easing them into actually riding on their own. If BttF had multiple difficulty settings with varying levels of hints and more/better puzzles at higher difficulty, it could have been great, instead, it's just a watered down "click to continue" drawn out cutscene.

I feel like Telltale's previous stuff has largely been exactly the same, though, and I still love it.

[Asian Inferno]

The concept of an easy game to cater to adventure gaming newbies is similar to the idea of giving someone a tricycle to teach them how to ride a bicycle. A better solution is adding training wheels to a bicycle and easing them into actually riding on their own. If BttF had multiple difficulty settings with varying levels of hints and more/better puzzles at higher difficulty, it could have been great, instead, it's just a watered down "click to continue" drawn out cutscene.
Might want to note that over on the BTTF forums for a possible season 2 improvement.

[Woodsyblue]

I found almost nothing to be wrong with BTTF: The Game. To me it looks very lovely crafted and I enjoyed the first 3 episodes heavily.

Read this (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23810)!

[davey77]

It is true that BTTF:The Game attracts new Adventure players to the genre, which is the ONLY excuse Telltale can use at the time to reason out the low difficulty level, and it's a positive effect. If you ask me, the only positive effect and it's not that much of a spectacular one, especially if you're also alienating your already acquired fandom at the same time.

yeah, thats true. and thanks for the reccommendations.

i liked what someone else just suggested about multiple difficulty levels, thus attracting players of all levels and disciplines. that way telltale could meet a wider demographic and satisfy as many people as possible.

i dont know how games are built (apart from a basic understanding) so i dont know how technically feasible this would be given their time frame and budget. which i also dont know.

[SHODANFreeman]

I don't think it would be difficult, they could just put several challenging puzzles in each episode, and have an "easy" mode that either gives you a series of hints ending with a walkthrough, or just skips puzzles/puzzle elements entirely (like MI2 and CMI did).

[Otaku of the future]

Jurassic park I don't care I'm going to buy it either way.

[DAISHI]

I don't think it's a big issue unless Telltale is the only place you get your adventure games from. Back in the day there were a range of easy to hard adventure games and Telltale released a really easy one in BttF.

[MusicallyInspired]

Give me the ability to walk and explore manually in Jurassic Park and then we'll talk about being interested. Otherwise I'm not giving it the time of day.

and its not the first adventure game ive played. back in the 90s i played doom, most of the pokemons, a bit of tomb raider.

Those aren't adventure games, man.

You do have a point, though, it brought new players in fine. Excellent. Awesome. If they would have TOLD us that to begin with when we were all preordering expecting something akin to Monkey Island or even Sam & Max season 3 it'd be a lot easier to forgive. But they advertised it like they did any other franchise and we all thought we were going to get something far better than we received. Some of us feel a little taken advantage of there.

Also, Sam & Max Episode 4 from Season 1 "Abe Lincoln Must Die!" is free for anyone to play. Try that out.

[Bloody Eugene]

Give me the ability to walk and explore manually in Jurassic Park and then we'll talk about being interested. Otherwise I'm not giving it the time of day.

Have you seen the in-game footage? You can explore through hotspots - like any adventure game. The only difference is that hotspot are highlighted with a key button.
I understand you: you just want JP:TG to be like a Penumbra/Amnesia game. But THAT'S NOT what TT is aiming to. Here there are jeeps, cinematics & different characters interactions - a cinematic graphic adventure game, not an exploration one.

And IMHO in this case having not the ability to walk and explore manually is good: they can concentrate on the camera movements to add drama, and they can improve detail because they work on a single camera shot instead of an entire landscape.

And personally I hope they'll drop the walking ability at all in all the graphic adventure games. It's not necessary and it's almost boring: I always double click on the exit, and the game doesn't lose anything. And I do this from MI3.

[MusicallyInspired]

No, you don't understand. I don't want it to be an FPS. I don't want lit-up hotspots, and I don't want to be led around everywhere I'm SUPPOSED to go. I don't want camera movements for drama for cutscenes. I want to PLAY A GAME. I want control. Even Heavy Rain had the ability to walk and it did its cinematic sequences quite easily and intuitively. I don't want more control taken away from me to make gameplay easier.

I don't want to play Jurassic Park. Not my cup of tea.

[FPug]

At first I was afraid because it wasn't open world, BUT, I'm actually embracing the gameplay now. It seems to really work with everything and I can see why you don't have to move around. I guess you could say I'm just ready for this game to come! I'm extremely impatient.

[Bloody Eugene]

I don't want to play Jurassic Park. Not my cup of tea.

Ok, that's fair.
Just don't blame TT for that.

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm not blaming TT for anything. I do think removing the ability to walk is a regression not an advancement, though. I consider it bad gameplay design.

[Bloody Eugene]

I'm not blaming TT for anything. I do think removing the ability to walk is a regression not an advancement, though. I consider it bad gameplay design.

At the contrary, I consider it an advancement.

I think the fun part of a TT game is to make characters evolve through the story, not to make them walk.
It doesn't add anything, and in adventures often leads to a lot of backtracking just to push a button - that's not so playful either.

Poles apart.

[MusicallyInspired]

Walking allowed you to discover objects you wouldn't normally see if you weren't standing in the right position. This means manual walking allowed you to discover new things that you couldn't see from a single vantage point. As easy as it was to find hotspots in a Telltale game compared to older games that didn't have hotspots at all, it still required more action on the player's part to look around for things. That adds to puzzles. Looking at static cinema-angled shots that show you where everything is? That's just not why I liked Telltale games.

It just seems to me that Telltale are continuously attempting to look for more ways for the player not to have to actually do much of anything in their games to beat it. Games are not all about story. If there's no gameplay there's no game. There's just a cinematic movie. And that's not why I put money down for a game. Least of all an adventure game. But I guess this game really isn't an adventure game. It's more like Puzzle Agent.

I will give Telltale this, though: at least they're being upfront about what Jurassic Park is going to be like. Unlike BTTF when we all thought we were getting a good challenging adventure and all we got was a mediocre click-fest cinematic. If Telltale are going to continue going down this road of not making adventure games, I'm not going to be their customer anymore.

*shudders thinking about the upcoming King's Quest*

[Bloody Eugene]

Walking allowed you to discover objects you wouldn't normally see if you weren't standing in the right position. This means manual walking allowed you to discover new things that you couldn't see from a single vantage point.

We finally got rid of pixel hunting and you invent hidden objects? :D
BTW I understand, but why you wanna hide objects? Adventures are not about where's the object I need, but how do I use the objects I have to accomplish a result.

It just seems to me that Telltale are continuously attempting to look for more ways for the player not to have to actually do much of anything in their games to beat it.

What? Can I remember you that (for the first time on a TT game) you can die if you don't do anything or you're not quick enough?

Games are not all about story. If there's no gameplay there's no game. There's just a cinematic movie.

I think this is the first TT game where cinematics are part of the game, because of QTE. I think there will be more to play here that in the whole BTTF where cinematics were just "sit&watch".

I will give Telltale this, though: at least they're being upfront about what Jurassic Park is going to be like. Unlike BTTF when we all thought we were getting a good challenging adventure and all we got was a mediocre click-fest cinematic.

They always said that for BTTF they "choosed for a casual approach" way before the release.



My opinion? You got a Dogma of what is Right and what is Wrong.
Walking is right, hotspots are wrong, etc. That's not good, free your mind, and take what the game offers, play if you want and then judge.
I appreciate you give suggestions, and that's ok, but how can you really tell what's good for a game you've never played?

I really don't like onions. I don't like them at all. I'll never use them. But when someone offered me fried onions, well, that way they worked well.

[MusicallyInspired]

We finally got rid of pixel hunting and you invent hidden objects? :D
BTW I understand, but why you wanna hide objects? Adventures are not about where's the object I need, but how do I use the objects I have to accomplish a result.

No, that's what puzzle games are about. Adventure games are about discovering and exploring a new world and figuring out which of the objects on screen are interactive and which are not by experimenting. Heck in the good adventures you could even acquire objects that don't do anything at all to further your progress. Like the real world. I don't want everything in the game handed to me on a silver platter with big red signs saying "CLICK ME!" I want to discover for myself which objects are truly interactive and usable. You look at my point of view as unnecessary and I look at your point of view as pointless. Why bother playing something that sticks so closely to a script? At least when you have a lot of red herrings you have a bit more of a challenge. You obviously find that annoying, but I consider that the very joy of it all.

What? Can I remember you that (for the first time on a TT game) you can die if you don't do anything or you're not quick enough?

Yeah, and you can take one step forward and two steps back from where you're standing but you're still not getting anywhere.

I think this is the first TT game where cinematics are part of the game, because of QTE. I think there will be more to play here that in the whole BTTF where cinematics were just "sit&watch".

At least you could walk around and control your own character in BTTF. Not that that added anything. But that's different. BTTF was badly designed. Removing walking does nothing but dumb things down by making the game go by faster.

[quote]They always said that for BTTF they "choosed for a casual approach" way before the release.

Give me a source.

My opinion? You got a Dogma of what is Right and what is Wrong.
Walking is right, hotspots are wrong, etc. That's not good, free your mind, and take what the game offers, play if you want and then judge.
I appreciate you give suggestions, and that's ok, but how can you really tell what's good for a game you've never played?

I really don't like onions. I don't like them at all. I'll never use them. But when someone offered me fried onions, well, that way they worked well.

Jurassic Park is not an adventure game and doesn't claim to be, Telltale have said as much long ago. So I'm uninterested in it. At least you could control your own character in Heavy Rain and go where you want to go. That added more than it took away for me personally. I'm not about to pay money for a glorified DVD menu game or another Dragon's Lair. We're supposed to advance gameplay not regress.

[Rather Dashing]

I'm not about to pay money for a glorified DVD menu game or another Dragon's Lair.
I'd by a Jurassic Park-based Dragon's Lair if it used hand-drawn animation anywhere near the quality of Don Bluth's. :p

[MusicallyInspired]

Touche lol.

[Magic Emperor]

I'd by a Jurassic Park-based Dragon's Lair if it used hand-drawn animation anywhere near the quality of Don Bluth's. :p

OH, MY GOD, YES. Please, make this happen! *drools and his eyes go sparkly*