Are you kidding me with these graphics?

[caeska]

Because this is absolutely ridicilous.
When is TTG going to learn and actually implement some proper graphics and animations into their games?
While this style of graphics is too cartoony and doesn't fit the L&O genre at all but I wouldn't mind that so much if Telltale would just take the graphics aspect somewhat seriously.

Look at Jurassic Park: Good characters, good story. But the graphics look like they were, and they probably were, done by amateurs who never attended a graphic design class in their lives.
My 5-year old niece could have done a better job in that department. The character animations as a whole, body language, movement, lip synch and
facial expressions of emotions is completely unrealistic and it is actually done so poorly that it makes it impossible to get immersed into the game world. BTTF was the same, no effort whatsoever put into animations and thus, no entertainment value.

And so far L&O seems poised to do exactly the same mistakes that BTTF and JP did because there is no indication that L&O will be any better. It's too rough around the edges and with the graphics style they've chosen to use they've effectively destroyed the game before it's even released. I'm still hoping to be proven wrong, but somehow I have my doubts.

If they are not going to bother to work with the graphics and animations, then I'm not going to bother with paying money for the game. It really is that simple. The graphics aspect is so important in a computer game that in many cases, it determines whether it becomes a success
or failure. And it is one of the most contributing factors to replay value and how drawn you as a player get into the game.

[Ribs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI

[coolsome]

One thing I found weird about the graphics is Jack McCoy looks airbrsuhed and wrinkle free.

[caeska]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI

That link has no relevance to what I just said. All I've done is state my opinion, which, as you might recall, is the entire point of having a public discussion forum to begin with.

[The Gentleman]

The cell shading simply doesn't look right in my opinion. I have nothing against cartoon graphics personally, but these graphics look like a poorly made TF2 lightwarp mod. I don't usually complain, but I just really dislike these graphics.

[Irishmile]

Caeska... curious... do you smash all your old games that no longer have state of the art, $100,000,000 development stages (http://uk.videogames.games.yahoo.com/blog/article/8081/)?

What about games like ZORK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zork) that is still considered by serious gamers to be an excellent game.. that has no graphics at all? Or how do you explain Minecraft's popularity (http://www.1up.com/news/minecraft-sales-exceed-4-million)?

While I agree presentation is important in most cases, I disagree that if the games visuals are not the best on the market that its automatically a horrible game.

Also your five year old niece sounds amazing I cant wait to play her game (http://www.ponycorns.com/)...

[Trixie]

His point is valid still. The game's footage from the trailer has the art style that does seem too cartoon/TF2 for what Law and Order is. If it was the same game with a different name, an original IP, then the style may fit. As is, it doesn't fit the tone of the show.
The animations for almost all Telltale games, in my eyes, are the same for the most part. There are some new animations but the main few animations have been there forever. BTTF:TG suffered for it's lack of animations, the characters just seemed to act like a bad actor who didn't know how to convey the emotion correctly. This is mainly for dialogue though, outside of conversation animations are much more varied and fluid. Although this does make the static talking animations look more obviously odd.
The art style is still only one piece of the game, the gameplay might be brilliant but opinions right now are on what the trailers show us. Don't judge a game on graphics, judge it on the gameplay and entertainment you will get from playing it.
Btw, don't hate someone to give opinions. Offending actual, just, criticism won't help anyone.

[Ribs]

That link has no relevance to what I just said. All I've done is state my opinion, which, as you might recall, is the entire point of having a public discussion forum to begin with.

I think the game has a beautiful aesthetic that works well, and you are saying that it's not even trying and you are not buying it because of the graphics alone. Plus, you chose to bash BTTF's graphical style - one of a few features I liked about the game - seemingly only because it wasn't 'realistic'. You were rude about it and didn't offer criticism that could realistically be met before release.

[OMA]

the graphics look like they were, and they probably were, done by amateurs who never attended a graphic design class in their lives.

I just saw the video and I don't think the graphics are nearly as bad as you put it. I think the cel-shaded look works pretty fine.

Besides, you don't need to offend the game creators just because you don't like the graphics. "Amateurs who never attended a graphic design class in their lives?". They surely worked hard to create those graphics and don't deserve those kinds of words.

My 5-year old niece could have done a better job in that department.

Then she must be a pretty awesome artist :D

[thom-22]

The graphics aspect is so important in a computer game that in many cases, it determines whether it becomes a success
or failure.

Not to everybody, and this does not appear to be a computer game, or rather not a desktop computer game, as it seems clear to me it's optimized for the iOS market.

Although I'm not particularly demanding about graphics myself, I sympathize with those who see graphics as important to immersion. But you have to factor in price. $3 per episode? As Telltale has already gone "casual" with gameplay, it's probably not a bad idea for prices to reflect that, and it's not surprising graphics will be more casual as well.

The real question is what are they going to charge for the PC/Mac version? If it's higher than that of the iOS version, with nothing extra added (eg. still the iOS resolution like Hector was), well then, that would certainly be cause for a rant of the OP's magnitude. ;)

[mjc0961]

That link has no relevance to what I just said. All I've done is state my opinion, which, as you might recall, is the entire point of having a public discussion forum to begin with.No, all you've done...

Look at Jurassic Park: Good characters, good story. But the graphics look like they were, and they probably were, done by amateurs who never attended a graphic design class in their lives.
My 5-year old niece could have done a better job in that department.

Is be a dick. That link said "it's okay to not like things, but don't be a dick about it" which is extremely relevant.

That said, you're confusing graphics with art style. The graphics look great for the art style they chose. But if you think it looks too cartoony (anyone else having flashbacks to when The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker came out?), your problem is with the art style, not the graphics. And how can you be sure the art style doesn't fit yet? None of us regular folk here have played the game. We've only seen some screenshots and a few video clips. Maybe it works. You just have to give it a chance first. At least wait until you can watch a Let's Play of it if you don't want to spend money.

[Scnew]

Oh, get over yourself. Telltale's never been heavy on the graphics and if you're supposedly a fan you'd have realized that years ago. Do you really think Law and Order is the kind of license that would do well looking like Crysis or something? It's pretty clear that it's intended as a fairly casual game intended first and foremost for iOS.

[caeska]

That said, you're confusing graphics with art style. The graphics look great for the art style they chose. But if you think it looks too cartoony (anyone else having flashbacks to when The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker came out?), your problem is with the art style, not the graphics. And how can you be sure the art style doesn't fit yet? None of us regular folk here have played the game. We've only seen some screenshots and a few video clips. Maybe it works. You just have to give it a chance first. At least wait until you can watch a Let's Play of it if you don't want to spend money.

Not at all, the art style is not the main issue here. Granted, I don't think the cel-shade style fits the L&O genre and I think they're making a huge mistake going in that direction. The issue is the graphics and animation, which completely destroy immersion.

I just saw the video and I don't think the graphics are nearly as bad as you put it. I think the cel-shaded look works pretty fine.

Besides, you don't need to offend the game creators just because you don't like the graphics. "Amateurs who never attended a graphic design class in their lives?". They surely worked hard to create those graphics and don't deserve those kinds of words.

It's not an insult when it's the truth. With the technology available today, the kinds of products TTG put together are simply not good enough. Making believable animations that don't scream at you and put you off throughout the whole game due to its poor quality is not hard; many lesser companies can do it successfully.


Oh, get over yourself. Telltale's never been heavy on the graphics and if you're supposedly a fan you'd have realized that years ago. Do you really think Law and Order is the kind of license that would do well looking like Crysis or something? It's pretty clear that it's intended as a fairly casual game intended first and foremost for iOS.

It doesn't have to be Crysis or Heavy Rain for the graphics to be adequate. All that is required is to make at least some effort so they can at least pretend to be professional.
Also, the fact that it is more of a casual game that you "don't have to be a gamer to play" is more disconcerting than it is reassuring.

[Harald B]

Do you really think Law and Order is the kind of license that would do well looking like Crysis or something?Yes! It would do great with the looks of, say, LA Noire or Heavy Rain. Noting that Jurassic Park had a lot more realistic-looking faces than the CSI games made me fully expect them to take it in that direction for Law and Order.
The shock when you then see the trailer take it the other way is not pleasant. I've mellowed out about it since learning it's largely aimed at the iPhone market (I did not realize that), but you shouldn't be so surprised about people having the same reaction.

[thesporkman]

I think the game's cell-shaded look looks really good in the still screenshots, but it's a little awkward when you see it in motion in the trailer.

[mjc0961]

Not at all, the art style is not the main issue here. Granted, I don't think the cel-shade style fits the L&O genre and I think they're making a huge mistake going in that direction. The issue is the graphics and animation, which completely destroy immersion.But there's absolutely nothing wrong with the graphics. Everything looks fine. The characters look like who they should look like. Maybe animations are off (I don't see a problem myself), but I don't see anything wrong with the graphics.

It doesn't have to be Crysis or Heavy Rain for the graphics to be adequate. All that is required is to make at least some effort so they can at least pretend to be professional.And you're still being a dick.

[ObiWanThreepwood]

The graphics are perfectly adequate for me, as well as several other participants in this thread. I respect that a lack of cutting edge graphics has turned you off, but to suggest that something is "simply not good enough" for today's game market for any reason is a generalization which should be avoided. So long as there's a market for what Telltale is selling, as the backlash in this thread suggests, then it's good enough for someone.

[Foxhack]

I'm logging back in to ask two questions:

One, who's voicing Lennie Briscoe / Jerry Orbach? 'Cause his voice ain't right. Then again, nobody could act like him. (He was my favorite L&O actor.) ... everyone just sounds -off-.

Two, how the hell did they get Rey Curtis / Benjamin Bratt back in the series? The character took early retirement after his wife became ill and moved to California.

Yes, the continuity bothers me. I'm weird.

[ObiWanThreepwood]

I'm logging back in to ask two questions:

One, who's voicing Lennie Briscoe / Jerry Orbach? 'Cause his voice ain't right. Then again, nobody could act like him. (He was my favorite L&O actor.) ... everyone just sounds -off-.

Two, how the hell did they get Rey Curtis / Benjamin Bratt back in the series? The character took early retirement after his wife became ill and moved to California.

Yes, the continuity bothers me. I'm weird.

I think I can answer one of your questions. Rey Curtis' wife passed away in 2009, I believe he guest stared in one episode that season to bury her. As it's 2011 at the start of the game, I think that would be suitable time to grieve then re-apply to his old job.

[Ribs]

Two, how the hell did they get Rey Curtis / Benjamin Bratt back in the series? The character took early retirement after his wife became ill and moved to California.

Yes, the continuity bothers me. I'm weird.

Also; some episodes seem to take place at different times other than the present, so we may flashback to his time on the show, too.

[yoman45135]

Im afraid I have to agree I first found out about telltale when they said they were making a Back to the future game (Im incredibly crazy about the films)
and I was dissapointed with the style of graphics but I thought ok let them it wont be that bad but im afraid I started to doubt them more because of the graphics even though they had a fantastic story.

If telltale put even a little effot into making good graphics people would enjoy there games more, usually I dont complain about cartoony things but since telltale make games for really serious films and tv programs it does annoy me a lot and annoys me even more when I see trailers for games like Uncharted or La noire.

If they put effort into it then they could easily get games in the game of the year awards

So please telltale listen to the fans of the movies and tv programs not the people who came here because you made a game about a talking dog and weird rabbit who speak and travel through time because just knowing that they are fans for that reason means they dont care about serious things.

[Irishmile]

You do know that Uncharted and LA Noire cost multi-millions of dollars to make right? They also have more people working on them and usually for 3 times as long. Then they spend sometimes MORE to advertise to ensure they make their money back. Last I knew TTG is still a small company with a small staff that have short deadlines..

Its OK not to like the way the game looks but its a little unfair to compare it to HUGE game releases..

[Ribs]

Im afraid I have to agree I first found out about telltale when they said they were making a Back to the future game (Im incredibly crazy about the films)
and I was dissapointed with the style of graphics but I thought ok let them it wont be that bad but im afraid I started to doubt them more because of the graphics even though they had a fantastic story.

If telltale put even a little effot into making good graphics people would enjoy there games more, usually I dont complain about cartoony things but since telltale make games for really serious films and tv programs it does annoy me a lot and annoys me even more when I see trailers for games like Uncharted or La noire.

If they put effort into it then they could easily get games in the game of the year awards

So please telltale listen to the fans of the movies and tv programs not the people who came here because you made a game about a talking dog and weird rabbit who speak and travel through time because just knowing that they are fans for that reason means they dont care about serious things.

Because we can only like one franchise and by liking it that means our opinions on others are invalid.

Also; the story on Back to the Future: The Game was mediocre at best. The 'graphics' (which were very good and well-optimized, may I add) are not a point to argue about. If you don't like the aesthetic, that's fine, but don't start saying the game's graphics are bad because they have very little if anything to do with eachother.

[coolsome]

So please telltale listen to the fans of the movies and tv programs not the people who came here because you made a game about a talking dog and weird rabbit who speak and travel through time because just knowing that they are fans for that reason means they dont care about serious things.

Go to hell you patronising arse biscuit! If you read the forum histoy for when S&M and TMI where out you would know we care about the game as serious as you care about the movies. Also how the hell is a delorian travling in time anymore serious then a dog and hyperkinetic rabbity thing doing it!?

[yoman45135]

Go to hell you patronising arse biscuit! If you read the forum histoy for when S&M and TMI where out you would know we care about the game as serious as you care about the movies. Also how the hell is a delorian travling in time anymore serious then a dog and hyperkinetic rabbity thing doing it!?

I dont see the point of you getting pissed because it just makes you look like a fanboy, anyway a delorean travelling throught time is serious like bob gale said: 'If you built a time machiene you would want to be able to move it'
Also the delorean looks really cool and the stainless steel was supposed to make it easier to travel throught time.

Also how can you take a talking dog seriously?

hope that answers your questions.

[coolsome]

I dont see the point of you getting pissed because it just makes you look like a fanboy



People are only fanboys when there fans of something the other person doesn't like

anyway a delorean travelling throught time is serious like bob gale said: 'If you built a time machiene you would want to be able to move it'
Being practical doesn't make something serious.


Also the delorean looks really cool and the stainless steel was supposed to make it easier to travel throught time.


I wasn't insulting how it looked.


Also how can you take a talking dog seriously?

hope that answers your questions.Really what it hinges on is in fictinal moves like JP BTTF or games like S&M is how much your willing to hold your sense of disbelief and take it seriously. At the end of the day the all just fiction with wild story's that would never happen in rl.

[yoman45135]

I wasn't insulting how it looked.


Really what it hinges on is in fictinal moves like JP BTTF or games like S&M is how much your willing to hold your sense of disbelief and take it seriously. At the end of the day the all just fiction with wild story's that would never happen in rl.

You said how is it serious and the only way you ment it is: The fact it''s a car

The facts it's a sports car.

also things like bttf and jp are serious because they have action and emotion and the people who like them agree it's serious.

But when it's things like S&M there are no action or emotion it's just some weird random things just to make people laugh.

Even though there is comedy in bttf it's not what it's built on it's very serious for example when doc gets shot or the clocktower scene or the end when marty thinks he will never see doc again.

Can you really say S&M has emotion like that or epic action where people almost die because they didnt escape in time.
(I dont know I have not played it but I have seen loads of trailers and it looks silly to me)

[coolsome]

Can you really say S&M has emotion like that or epic action where people almost die because they didnt escape in time.
(I dont know I have not played it but I have seen loads of trailers and it looks silly to me)

Yes yes it does. I fail to see how it makes something serious though. I mean hot fuzz and double team had that in it and there's no way there serious movies.

[Vainamoinen]

Look at Jurassic Park: Good characters, good story. But the graphics look like they were, and they probably were, done by amateurs who never attended a graphic design class in their lives.


...maybe you should attend a graphic design class first? I assure you, JP's graphic design was marvelous. It's the 100-programmer/20-million game engine that just isn't there, and I'm not sure if anyone really expected that.

I've my quarrels with the graphic style as seen in that first L&O trailer, but pros are at work here nonetheless.

[Ribs]

Also; just because something's silly doesn't mean it can't pack an emotional punch. End of Blackadder IV strikes me as a good example of this.

[Scnew]

Can you really say S&M has emotion like that or epic action where people almost die because they didnt escape in time.

Go over to the Sam and Max forum and read all the delicious tears shed by people over the Sam and Max season 3 ending.

[yoman45135]

Go over to the Sam and Max forum and read all the delicious tears shed by people over the Sam and Max season 3 ending.

well then they are a bit silly crying over a talking dog and talking alien rabbit.

[coolsome]

well then they are a bit silly crying over a talking dog and talking alien rabbit.

Max isn't an alien.

http://blackjeezus.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/homer-facepalm.jpg?w=450&h=295

[yoman45135]

Max isn't an alien.

http://blackjeezus.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/homer-facepalm.jpg?w=450&h=295

Ok then but he isnt completley a rabbit so he must be some sort of mutant (and if I got it wrong again I dont care, I dont like sam and max games from what I have seen.)

[coolsome]

Ribs I'm just gonna borrow this K?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI

[yoman45135]

Ribs I'm just gonna borrow this K?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI

Im not being a dick im telling the truth, why do you think games get rated for graphics, well if your right the people who thought they should add it are wrong and dont know anything because they dont like silly graphics, why dont you stop defending telltale all the time and actually try to understand what people are saying instead of thinking they are saying it for fun.

[coolsome]

All your saying is people who like Sam and Max are idiots cos there talking animals.

[yoman45135]

All your saying is people who like Sam and Max are idiots cos there talking animals.

im saying there idiots if they are more serious about talking animals than something like bttf, jp or law and order.

[caeska]

im saying there idiots if they are more serious about talking animals than something like bttf, jp or law and order.


I'm going to underline something very important here: There is no word "im" in the English vocabulary. There is however a word called "I'm", which is actually two words. It's possible to write it either with the apostrophe or as "I am", and one of those options have to be used. Both have the same meaning and they are both spelled with a capital "I", unlike the way you spelled it. But you can't write "im" ever, because that is quite simply not a word that exists in our reality.

Similarly the word "there" can't be used in the context from your above quote, it would be more correct to use "they are" or "they're". "There" is a different word altogether.

Also it is incorrect to refer to the TV show "Law & Order" as "law and order".
Both the words "Law" and "Order" have to begin with capital letters and the two words need to be separated with an ampersand (&).

[yoman45135]

I'm going to underline something very important here: There is no word "im" in the English vocabulary. There is however a word called "I'm", which is actually two words. It's possible to write it either with the apostrophe or as "I am", and one of those options have to be used. Both have the same meaning and they are both spelled with a capital "I", unlike the way you spelled it. But you can't write "im" ever, because that is quite simply not a word that exists in our reality.

Similarly the word "there" can't be used in the context from your above quote, it would be more correct to use "they are" or "they're". "There" is a different word altogether.

Also it is incorrect to refer to the TV show "Law & Order" as "law and order".
Both the words "Law" and "Order" have to begin with capital letters and the two words need to be separated with an ampersand (&).

This is the internet not school you just made a pointless post telling me things I already know.

Oh and the reason I dont put it right is because I spend my time thinking about what im gonna post, not how im going to post it.

[Ribs]

I happen to think the concept for Jurassic Park is far more ridiculous then that of Sam and Max as Jurassic Park is set in a hyper-realistic world but they refound Dinosaurs, and Sam and Max is obviously set in a very oddball version of the world where talkings canines and lagomorphs exist.

[Vainamoinen]

I'm going to underline something very important here: There is no word "im" in the English vocabulary. There is however a word called "I'm", which is actually two words. It's possible to write it either with the apostrophe or as "I am", and one of those options have to be used. Both have the same meaning and they are both spelled with a capital "I", unlike the way you spelled it. But you can't write "im" ever, because that is quite simply not a word that exists in our reality.

Similarly the word "there" can't be used in the context from your above quote, it would be more correct to use "they are" or "they're". "There" is a different word altogether.

Also it is incorrect to refer to the TV show "Law & Order" as "law and order".
Both the words "Law" and "Order" have to begin with capital letters and the two words need to be separated with an ampersand (&).

Unless a community member explicitly asks to have his spelling corrected, it is not normally advised to do it out of the blue. Deal with the arguments in a post or don't, but take the language guardian crap elsewhere. We're too grown up here for that.

[coolsome]

Unless a community member explicitly asks to have his spelling corrected, it is not normally advised to do it out of the blue. Deal with the arguments in a post or don't, but take the language guardian crap elsewhere. We're too grown up here for that.

I've had my grammar and spelling corrected loads of times and never got this message following it!

[Ribs]

i no spell good n no har bout it!1!!

Where do I even start?!?

[Vainamoinen]

I've had my grammar and spelling corrected loads of times and never got this message following it!

Maybe the mod with a degree in linguistics wasn't around.

[Irishmile]

.i would like to thank you all for never correcting my horrible puntuatioN

[eblocksonian]

I agree, the art AND art style isn't that good... but then again, I don't really care. It's the gameplay that matters.

[yoman45135]

I agree, the art AND art style isn't that good... but then again, I don't really care. It's the gameplay that matters.

Yes but what we are saying is that it is not right because law & order is very adult but it has graphics like it is intended for 9 - 15 year olds

[Ribs]

Yes but what we are saying is that it is not right because law & order is very adult but it has graphics like it is intended for 9 - 15 year olds

Right, now you're being rude too. 'Cartoony' doesn't mean it's intended for children - Sam and Max and Monkey Island are prime examples of more adult games that use a cartoony art style.

[yoman45135]

Right, now you're being rude too. 'Cartoony' doesn't mean it's intended for children - Sam and Max and Monkey Island are prime examples of more adult games that use a cartoony art style.

it's more childish though it's not serious look at both of those games they are not serious they are full of jokes and things which are impossible in real life.

ok let me give you a example:

Animated movies like Rango or Cars or Nemo are all animated and not serious but things like Back to the future, Law & Order and Jurassic park are not animated but serious, so my point is if it's animated it's the people who made it way of showing you it's not ment to be taken seriously.

[Ribs]

it's more childish though it's not serious look at both of those games they are not serious they are full of jokes and things which are impossible in real life.

ok let me give you a example:

Animated movies like Rango or Cars or Nemo are all animated and not serious but things like Back to the future, Law & Order and Jurassic park are not animated but serious, so my point is if it's animated it's the people who made it way of showing you it's not ment to be taken seriously.

Back to the Future is 'serious'? I'd probably describe it as Comedy/Science Fiction. Neither Back to the Future nor Jurassic Park are meant to be taken seriously; both have completely ridiculous concepts that have no possibly chance of occurring. Law and Order is occasionally a very funny show, and occasionally has very, very oddball out-there cases that are most definately not supposed to be taken seriously. The game would be wrong with a semi-realistic art dynamic; it wouldn't be right.
Also; animated films can be aimed at adults too and be very serious, such as Spirited Away and the other Miyazaki films, which are championed as among the best films, period. But chances are you haven't heard of him or that as right now you seem to have a very limited view.

[yoman45135]

Back to the Future is 'serious'? I'd probably describe it as Comedy/Science Fiction. Neither Back to the Future nor Jurassic Park are meant to be taken seriously; both have completely ridiculous concepts that have no possibly chance of occurring. .

Yes of course they do, oh wait no they dont Jurassic Park has a very clever explanation of why the dinosaurs are around and back to the future the time machiene was practical and very realistic I will quote doc: ''If your gonna build a time machiene out of a car why not do it with some style!?''

As I said before yes there is comedy in Back to the future but that's not it's genre it fits more into the action/ sci fi and sci fi can be very realistic (Back to the future)

Oh and how can things like Rango or Cars can be serious thats even more stupid than saying Sam and Max is more serious than Law & Order.
Also you said there are jokes in law & Order well there are jokes in real life, the diffrence is that animated films and games have incredibly silly jokes which is not realistic at all.

(Note as well we are not asking for crysis graphics just effort instead of telltale laughing and saying: ''It's just Law & Order, no big deal I think I will add a flying animated elephant just for a joke'')

[Ribs]

Yes of course they do, oh wait no they dont Jurassic Park has a very clever explanation of why the dinosaurs are around and back to the future the time machiene was practical and very realistic I will quote doc: ''If your gonna build a time machiene out of a car why not do it with some style!?''

I think you missed my point. Jurassic Park is ridiculous - the reasoning makes very little sense and the dinosaurs do feel out of place in a hyper-realistic world.

As I said before yes there is comedy in Back to the future but that's not it's genre it fits more into the action/ sci fi and sci fi can be very realistic (Back to the future)

Yeah, Back to the Future was so serious that there was never an animated television show about it on Saturday Mornings! Oh wait...

Oh and how can things like Rango or Cars can be serious thats even more stupid than saying Sam and Max is more serious than Law & Order.
Also you said there are jokes in law & Order well there are jokes in real life, the diffrence is that animated films and games have incredibly silly jokes which is not realistic at all.
I'm going to stop arguing with you because you are very, very hideously wrong here - animated films are family films, most usually, not comedies - jokes do feature, but it's mostly about a moral of some kind in the end - I can't speak for Rango, but I can say that animated films like Cars and Toy Story and WALL-E and Fantastic Mr. Fox are moving to me, and although they are animated I feel it enhances the story rather than falter it.

(Note as well we are not asking for crysis graphics just effort instead of telltale laughing and saying: ''It's just Law & Order, no big deal I think I will add a flying animated elephant just for a joke'')

palmdesk

[yoman45135]

I think you missed my point. Jurassic Park is ridiculous - the reasoning makes very little sense and the dinosaurs do feel out of place in a hyper-realistic world.



Yeah, Back to the Future was so serious that there was never an animated television show about it on Saturday Mornings! Oh wait...


I'm going to stop arguing with you because you are very, very hideously wrong here - animated films are family films, most usually, not comedies - jokes do feature, but it's mostly about a moral of some kind in the end - I can't speak for Rango, but I can say that animated films like Cars and Toy Story and WALL-E and Fantastic Mr. Fox are moving to me, and although they are animated I feel it enhances the story rather than falter it.



palmdesk

The cartoon was for kids and how does a animated film make you more emotional?

[coolsome]

The cartoon was for kids and how does a animated film make you more emotional?

Here's how. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co27asXcXqQ)

[yoman45135]

Here's how. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co27asXcXqQ)

Doesnt make me any sadder than if it was a real life version

[coolsome]

Doesnt make me any sadder than if it was a real life version

Yeah true but it don't make it any less sadder because its animated.

[yoman45135]

Yeah true but it don't make it any less sadder because its animated.

The lion king is not based on a tv programme or film so the people who made it wanted it animated whilst Law & order, Jurrasic park and Back to the future are based on real life and are more serious than animated things, but telltale made them cartoony because they couldn't be bothered to put any effort into them

Thats the reason im saying what I am and why the fans are disapointed

[Ribs]

telltale couldn't be bothered to put any effort into them

Yup. Let's be rude! Being rude is fun.

[coolsome]

Well I'm a fan of Law and Order and have been making topics and posts saying TTG should do Law and Order since 2009 and I'm not disappointed with the graphics. And it has nothing to do with my enjoyment of Sam and Max.

[caeska]

Here's how. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co27asXcXqQ)

Simba's death is sad yes, but I don't think you can really get emotional over cartoons the same way you can from real shows.
I can list 15 scenes from "24" off the top of my head that are 10 times sadder than that scene from Lion King.

Yup. Let's be rude! Being rude is fun.

How is he rude? Because he's saying something you don't like?
What he said was completely true, so deal with it in a constructive manner.

[yoman45135]

Well I'm a fan of Law and Order and have been making topics and posts saying TTG should do Law and Order since 2009 and I'm not disappointed with the graphics. And it has nothing to do with my enjoyment of Sam and Max.

I mean hardcore fans people who have posters in there houses and have the complete boxset, those are the people who are upset with the graphics.

[coolsome]

I mean hardcore fans people who have posters in there houses and have the complete boxset, those are the people who are upset with the graphics.

I have some box sets! And I could go buy a poster if it means my option is valid.

[yoman45135]

I have some box sets! And I could go buy a poster if it means my option is valid.

Yes but you dont think about Law & Order every day and nothing else like some people do who really love Law & Order
(Just to clarify im NOT one of those people)

[coolsome]

Yes but you dont think about Law & Order every day and nothing else like some people do who really love Law & Order
(Just to clarify im NOT one of those people)

How do you know what I think! And I do think about Jack McCoy every moment of every day.

http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y357/sanchita7/Emoticons/custom_onion_gif_1.gif

[yoman45135]

How do you know what I think! And I do think about Jack McCoy every moment of every day.

http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y357/sanchita7/Emoticons/custom_onion_gif_1.gif

Because I know everything mwahahaa

[anonima]

When is TTG going to learn and actually implement some proper graphics and animations into their games?
While this style of graphics is too cartoony and doesn't fit the L&O genre at all but I wouldn't mind that so much if Telltale would just take the graphics aspect somewhat seriously.


/snip/ [courtesy of Vainamoinen]

but really telltale is taking a different approach on the graphic.there are serious game with cartoony graphics like Borderlands and XIII (although XIII's ending sucked)

[eblocksonian]

Like I said before, Graphics are the least important aspect to me. They suck resources for the PC. The important point is, it's serviceable. I can tell who the characters are. It's not like they are atari graphics or some bull like that.

[Irishmile]

Yeah I do not understand the backlash from some.. you can tell who all the characters are supposed to be and I think the likeness is rather good.... and avoided the uncanny valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley)

I think its ridiculous to assume hardcore fans of the series would dismiss this game because it doesn't have ground breaking visuals.. I'm not really a fan of any of the shows but I assumed they were more story driven type dramas..

Maybe I am just old.. but I grew up playing 8bit graphics.. so for me I can enjoy games that do not have the latest graphics.. It would be an interesting study to see if newer gamers who did not come up during the 80s and early 90s expect graphics.

[coolsome]

I'm not really a fan of any of the shows but I assumed they were more story driven type dramas..

No its the sexyness of Jack McCoy that keeps us watching....(TTG you need a horrny sign of attraction emotion.)

[Woodsyblue]

it's more childish though it's not serious look at both of those games they are not serious they are full of jokes and things which are impossible in real life.

ok let me give you a example:

Animated movies like Rango or Cars or Nemo are all animated and not serious but things like Back to the future, Law & Order and Jurassic park are not animated but serious, so my point is if it's animated it's the people who made it way of showing you it's not ment to be taken seriously.

I'm pretty sure that if you ever met Brad Bird he'd punch you in the face*. Hayao Miyazaki likely wouldn't assault you but I'm sure he'd shed a single tear. The masters of animation have been crusading for decades against ignorant opinions such as these. Those who think that Animation is a genre and that that genre is only aimed at kids really don't know the first thing about the history of animation. You can make any kind of animated film you like, in any style, and aimed at any audience. Do you think something like Perfect Blue was made for kids? Do you think the first ten minutes of Up were not supposed to be taken seriously?

Also, just because something is live action doesn't mean it's serious. Look at practically anything by Mel Brooks. Something like Space Balls is just as silly as Sam & Max.

Edit: *I don't mean this in a violent 'I hate you' kind of way, it probably helps to know that Brad Bird is passionately against people dismissing the great things the medium of animation is capable of achieving.

[yoman45135]

but I assumed they were more story driven type dramas..


They are but if telltale took pride in there work and and put effort into the game then the fans would feel like it is a interactive show, if it has cartoony graphics it looks like telltale are not being serious and that it's not ment to be a continuation or ''What if'' kind of thing.

[caeska]

Yeah I do not understand the backlash from some.. you can tell who all the characters are supposed to be and I think the likeness is rather good.... and avoided the uncanny valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley)

I think its ridiculous to assume hardcore fans of the series would dismiss this game because it doesn't have ground breaking visuals.. I'm not really a fan of any of the shows but I assumed they were more story driven type dramas..

Maybe I am just old.. but I grew up playing 8bit graphics.. so for me I can enjoy games that do not have the latest graphics.. It would be an interesting study to see if newer gamers who did not come up during the 80s and early 90s expect graphics.

Nobody's demanding ground-breaking graphics, just some effort from the part of the game developers. Graphics have to be good enough so that the player can feel immersed into the game, and you don't need a $40 million budget for that.

[yoman45135]

Like I said before, Graphics are the least important aspect to me. They suck resources for the PC. The important point is, it's serviceable. I can tell who the characters are. It's not like they are atari graphics or some bull like that.

Well Just Cause 2 has fantastic graphics but it runs perfect, also good graphics give the characters more personality Bloodshot eyes or generally just what they look like because cartoony graphics dont really give much detail about how they look.

[RyanKaufman]

Hey all,

Way back when we started planning Law & Order, I sat down with the art director, and we looked at a variety of art styles. From the word go, I wanted the game to lead on iPhone and iPad**, and it was very important that the game look fantastic on those devices.

The display screens are perfectly suited for a bold graphic art style, using strong lines and swaths of solid colors. On small screens, the kind of details you find in a photo-realistic game often get lost or look cluttered and busy.

We very deliberately designed Law & Order from the ground up to run smoothly on the phone and pad, and look unique among Telltale games. The people here take their craft very seriously, and strive for high quality art that runs on anything from a 3GS phone to a high-end PC.

I am very proud of the look and feel of the game. When I see it running on the phone, I know we made the right choice. Even on a smaller screen, the characters are strongly defined, without being uncanny or falling short of realism. The art style bolsters their personalities and features. (Jack McCoy's eyebrows!)

I really love the Law & Order universe-- the characters and the storytelling are some of the best around. We've had a blast making this game, and we can't wait for you to play it.

--R

**it will also be on PC/Mac, don't worry! I just wanted to be honest that I'm very passionate about iOS gaming. That's my personal bias, and where I like to start my designs from.

[eblocksonian]

Hey all,

Way back when we started planning Law & Order, I sat down with the art director, and we looked at a variety of art styles. From the word go, I wanted the game to lead on iPhone and iPad**, and it was very important that the game look fantastic on those devices.

The display screens are perfectly suited for a bold graphic art style, using strong lines and swaths of solid colors. On small screens, the kind of details you find in a photo-realistic game often get lost or look cluttered and busy.

We very deliberately designed Law & Order from the ground up to run smoothly on the phone and pad, and look unique among Telltale games. The people here take their craft very seriously, and strive for high quality art that runs on anything from a 3GS phone to a high-end PC.

I am very proud of the look and feel of the game. When I see it running on the phone, I know we made the right choice. Even on a smaller screen, the characters are strongly defined, without being uncanny or falling short of realism. The art style bolsters their personalities and features. (Jack McCoy's eyebrows!)

I really love the Law & Order universe-- the characters and the storytelling are some of the best around. We've had a blast making this game, and we can't wait for you to play it.

--R

**it will also be on PC/Mac, don't worry! I just wanted to be honest that I'm very passionate about iOS gaming. That's my personal bias, and where I like to start my designs from.
I'm going to be honest-a more "realistic" art style for L&O is more sensible to me. That being said, it's hardly a deal breaker for me. It's not like I was getting Atari-level graphics.

I'm more curious about the gameplay mechanics, such as the plea deals and objections you alluded to in the teaser trailer. Will we getting more teasers soon? I'm more curious on how that works, more than anything else.

[mjc0961]

I think I can answer one of your questions. Rey Curtis' wife passed away in 2009, I believe he guest stared in one episode that season to bury her. As it's 2011 at the start of the game, I think that would be suitable time to grieve then re-apply to his old job.Yes, that's right. I remember that just barely.

Can you really say S&M has emotion like that or epic action where people almost die because they didnt escape in time.
(I dont know I have not played it but I have seen loads of trailers and it looks silly to me)

well then they are a bit silly crying over a talking dog and talking alien rabbit.Okay, so first you get all smarmy saying that Sam & Max doesn't have any "emotion like that or epic action where people almost die", and then when it's pointed out to you that it DOES have those things, you just say that people are silly for being moved by them? It's pretty clear that you've never played Sam & Max, that you don't want to give it a try, and that you just want to blindly hate because you think it's stupid.

How is he rude? Because he's saying something you don't like?
What he said was completely true, so deal with it in a constructive manner.No, what he said was not completely true. It's an opinion you agree with, not a fact. You and him keep spewing this completely rude, insulting, and obnoxious drivel about how they didn't put any effort into the graphics. Why? Not because the graphics are bad, but because you don't like the art style they chose to use. You and he have been nothing but completely rude from the very beginning.

Also, the hypocrisy of you telling people to deal with this rudeness in a constructive manner when you have yet to be constructive in this thread is astounding. Maybe if you would voice your objection to an art style in a constructive way instead of throwing out insulting phrases like "my 5 year old niece could have done better" and "they should put some effort in so they can at least pretend to be professional", people would actually be able to form a constructive response. Honestly, you should probably consider yourself lucky that you haven't been infracted or banned yet with all the rude, insulting things you've been saying about all the people who worked so hard to make this game.

I'm pretty sure that if you ever met Brad Bird he'd punch you in the face*. Hayao Miyazaki likely wouldn't assault you but I'm sure he'd shed a single tear. The masters of animation have been crusading for decades against ignorant opinions such as these. Those who think that Animation is a genre and that that genre is only aimed at kids really don't know the first thing about the history of animation. You can make any kind of animated film you like, in any style, and aimed at any audience. Do you think something like Perfect Blue was made for kids? Do you think the first ten minutes of Up were not supposed to be taken seriously?South Park is animated, it must be for kids. ;)

This really is just like when The Wind Waker's art style was revealed, and so many people hated the entire game just because the cel-shaded art style. But hey, you know what? It was still a great game, both to play and to look at. Chances are, we'll be able to say the same thing about this game in the future.

[caeska]

No, what he said was not completely true. It's an opinion you agree with, not a fact. You and him keep spewing this completely rude, insulting, and obnoxious drivel about how they didn't put any effort into the graphics. Why? Not because the graphics are bad, but because you don't like the art style they chose to use. You and he have been nothing but completely rude from the very beginning.

Also, the hypocrisy of you telling people to deal with this rudeness in a constructive manner when you have yet to be constructive in this thread is astounding. Maybe if you would voice your objection to an art style in a constructive way instead of throwing out insulting phrases like "my 5 year old niece could have done better" and "they should put some effort in so they can at least pretend to be professional", people would actually be able to form a constructive response. Honestly, you should probably consider yourself lucky that you haven't been infracted or banned yet with all the rude, insulting things you've been saying about all the people who worked so hard to make this game.


Opinions, not insults. And I've repeatedly stated that it's not the art style itself that angers me, but the poor quality of the actual graphics and animations.

[Woodsyblue]

Simba's death is sad yes, but I don't think you can really get emotional over cartoons the same way you can from real shows.
I can list 15 scenes from "24" off the top of my head that are 10 times sadder than that scene from Lion King.

Name these fifteen scenes from "24" that you claim are ten times sadder than Simba, in a state of denial, crying over the body of his dead father. If you can come up with ANY legitimately sadder scenes from that retarded show I will be shocked ;)

South Park is animated, it must be for kids. ;)

A perfect example. It's funny to think that back when The Simpsons first made the leap from animated shorts to their own show the idea that a cartoon that wasn't aimed only at children could succeed was considered by many to be preposterous, and now it's like the most successful television show of all time. Shows like South Park, Family Guy, Futurama, etc, just further enforce what can be achieved with the medium.

[caeska]

Name these fifteen scenes from "24" that you claim are ten times sadder than Simba, in a state of denial, crying over the body of his dead father. If you can come up with ANY legitimately sadder scenes from that retarded show I will be shocked ;)


Death of Buchanan
Death of Edgar
Death of Teri
Mason getting radiation poisoning
Death of Renee
Lynn McGill's death by nerve gas
Jack being taken to a Chinese prison
Wayne Palmer's assassination attempt
Daniels completing Wayne's term
President Taylor effectively ending her term after Season 8
Suitcase nuke blowing killing countless innocents
Jack being forced to sacrifice Paul Rayne's life to save a terrorist
James Heller being forced to resign after confronting President Logan
Airforce One being shot down and killing President Keeler's son
Jack being forced to kill Curtis

That took me less than 45 seconds to come up with, and there are many more moments that far exceed the Simba scene.

[Vainamoinen]

There's hardly a way to objectively describe why a certain scene is "more sad" than others. If the Lion King's your cup of tea, why not spill some tears there. If you like "24", things might be different for you personally.*

Transported emotion and the visuals of a game are, however, very connected. If you don't like the graphic portrayal of the characters, there's hardly a way to make the story really moving for you. Yet in the Law & Order series, actors did not really seem to display their emotions so openly. Facial expression did not play that much of a role for Vincent D'Onofrio or Ice-T at least. ;)



* Disclaimer: I've only watched half the first season of "24" and I considered the naivety with which this show was written to be quite, quite comparable to The Lion King. I then suffered from cliché overload, and when I finally thought "one more cliché and I'm out of that series", one of the characters suddenly suffered from amnesia. So that was my little 24 story, while we're being off topic.

[Irishmile]

....................It's funny to think that back when The Simpsons first made the leap from animated shorts to their own show the idea that a cartoon that wasn't aimed only at children could succeed was considered by many to be preposterous, and now it's like the most successful television show of all time. Shows like South Park, Family Guy, Futurama, etc, just further enforce what can be achieved with the medium.

Prior to the Simpsons the Flintstones had been the longest running cartoon in a primetime spot... while the Flintstones is known as wholesome entertainment it was infact aimed at a broad audience including adults... hence the primetime air time.

[Woodsyblue]

Death of Buchanan
Death of Edgar
Death of Teri
Mason getting radiation poisoning
Death of Renee
Lynn McGill's death by nerve gas
Jack being taken to a Chinese prison
Wayne Palmer's assassination attempt
Daniels completing Wayne's term
President Taylor effectively ending her term after Season 8
Suitcase nuke blowing killing countless innocents
Jack being forced to sacrifice Paul Rayne's life to save a terrorist
James Heller being forced to resign after confronting President Logan
Airforce One being shot down and killing President Keeler's son
Jack being forced to kill Curtis

That took me less than 45 seconds to come up with, and there are many more moments that far exceed the Simba scene.

That list was pretty much what I was expecting, a bunch of secondary, poorly developed character deaths and M. Night Shyamalan-like twists-for-the-sake-of-twists that leave most viewers shocked rather than genuinely saddened, so shocked they have to tune into the next episode and the next season to see what happens next ("24" is a one-trick pony that way).

You may find these things sadder than Mustafa's death but I'm willing to wager that all but the most ardent "24" fans and/or the most despondent animated film detractors would completely agree with you.

Prior to the Simpsons the Flintstones had been the longest running cartoon in a primetime spot... while the Flintstones is known as wholesome entertainment it was infact aimed at a broad audience including adults... hence the primetime air time.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8268/themoreyouknowh.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/themoreyouknowh.jpg/)
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[RyanKaufman]

Yeah, I dunno. If you're relying on photo-realism to move your audience, you're doing it wrong.

[Bloody Eugene]

Yeah, I dunno. If you're relying on photo-realism to move your audience, you're doing it wrong.

Yeah.
"Style" > "Photorealism"

[yoman45135]

A perfect example. It's funny to think that back when The Simpsons first made the leap from animated shorts to their own show the idea that a cartoon that wasn't aimed only at children could succeed was considered by many to be preposterous, and now it's like the most successful television show of all time. Shows like South Park, Family Guy, Futurama, etc, just further enforce what can be achieved with the medium.

Is the simpsons serious?!! No it's not even the slightest and my point was a cartoony style is less serious than a more real life looking graphics.

[harrisonpink]

Is the simpsons serious?!! No it's not even the slightest and my point was a cartoony style is less serious than a more real life looking graphics.

I don't know. I've watched a lot of serious things that were "cartoony" that were very emotionally evocative. How about Akira? How about the ending to Bastion? All it was was a painting, a song and a narrator's voice over and I was almost in tears.

Just goes to show that it's a bit silly to say one style is more emotionally evocative than the other. It all comes down to the story-teller's ability to draw you in and make you care about the characters.

[yoman45135]

I don't know. I've watched a lot of serious things that were "cartoony" that were very emotionally evocative. How about Akira? How about the ending to Bastion? All it was was a painting, a song and a narrator's voice over and I was almost in tears.

Just goes to show that it's a bit silly to say one style is more emotionally evocative than the other. It all comes down to the story-teller's ability to draw you in and make you care about the characters.

Ok this sounds like im being a smartass but I dont mean to sound like one, If there is a cartoon film and a family are crying because there dog died, but then there was a real life version with the same thing I would find the real life version more sad because you believe it more, if it is all cartoony and full of really silly jokes then you dont believe it and you can say: 'Just a cartoon it's not real'.

Yes maybe SOMETIMES < (Look what I just said everyone only sometimes :P)
Sometimes a more cartoony film or tv program or even a game can be sad but it is never more sad than a real life thing because if it looks real you can believe it more and be more sad.

Of course it is too late for telltale to change the style for law and order but I am very sure they will get more very big franchises (Maybe a back to the future season 2 wink wink)
But you need to think about making better graphics and as I have said many time's it doesnt have to be like La noire but at least something I can believe and say, 'Well done telltale I can see you put effort into every aspect of the game 10/10'

On a side note.
I really like the back to the future game but the only problem was the graphics, it had a fantastic story and I liked the characters but then when I looked at the graphics I was dissapointed because if the graphics had been better I would of believed the game was more of a continuation and not so much another cartoon series.

[harrisonpink]

if it is all cartoony and full of really silly jokes then you dont believe it and you can say: 'Just a cartoon it's not real'

Aha, but now we're talking about two different things. Cartoony visuals and cartoony writing. Silly jokes would of course ruin anything dramatic and emotional, but the same can be said of a silly program that's not a cartoon. The Three Stooges comes to mind. You laugh when the characters beat each other up, because it's written to be silly. If that were happening in real life, it would be monsterous! :p

But you need to think about making better graphics and as I have said many time's it doesnt have to be like La noire but at least something I can believe and say, 'Well done telltale I can see you put effort into every aspect of the game 10/10'

I can vouch 100% that the people who make games at Telltale do it because it's their passion. There isn't a person I've met at Telltale who puts less than their whole heart into what they do here, if that counts for anything :P

[Ribs]

This argument is going nowhere - Different people think the game should go for different styles. Telltale made a decision rather than some half-way monster. And I'd say that's a brave, bold thing to do.

[Woodsyblue]

Ok this sounds like im being a smartass but I dont mean to sound like one, If there is a cartoon film and a family are crying because there dog died, but then there was a real life version with the same thing I would find the real life version more sad because you believe it more, if it is all cartoony and full of really silly jokes then you dont believe it and you can say: 'Just a cartoon it's not real'.

I don't think that's true at all. I often find that cartoons can have heightened emotional impacts if done well. I have friends who outright refuse to watch the Futurama episode "Jurassic Bark" because the ending makes them collapse into a fit of tears and sobbing.

[yoman45135]

But I said that you dont believe as much, yes sometimes cartoons can be sad and there are a few serious cartoon films but they are not based on a book or another film but telltale make game's for big franchises which are real life, so if telltale can make better graphics why not use better graphics it would be easier and they would get more ratings in the graphic aspect of thing's but if they dont bother with graphics there is nothing good.

[coolsome]

But I said that you dont believe as much, yes sometimes cartoons can be sad and there are a few serious cartoon films but they are not based on a book or another film.

Batman DC Animated Universe films are way more emotionally gripping then any of the live films including Dark Knight.

[yoman45135]

Batman DC Animated Universe films are way more emotionally gripping then any of the live films including Dark Knight.

I disagree, the dark knight was very emotional and batman forever was very tense sometimes

[coolsome]

I disagree, the dark knight was very emotional


I really only liked the joker parts the rest wasn't that good for me.


and batman forever was very tense sometimes

Batman Mask of the Phantasm was theatricality released about 1 or 2 years before Batman Forever and there's no way in hell that anyone could think batman forever is more dramatic then mask of the phantasm.

[Jennifer]

Batman Mask of the Phantasm was theatricality released about 1 or 2 years before Batman Forever and there's no way in hell that anyone could think batman forever is more dramatic then mask of the phantasm.
I agree. In that example the live action film is definitely sillier and more cartoony than the animated film.

[Faceslasher]

It's an artstyle, besides the graphics are like Sam and Max IMO. If Sam and Max was done now this argument would have happened.

Look at TF2, it's graphics are downed due to an ARTSTYLE.

[yoman45135]

I agree. In that example the live action film is definitely sillier and more cartoony than the animated film.

I disagree completley batman forever was only a bit silly most parts were really serious

[Falanca]

Because this is absolutely ridicilous.
When is TTG going to learn and actually implement some proper graphics and animations into their games?
While this style of graphics is too cartoony and doesn't fit the L&O genre at all but I wouldn't mind that so much if Telltale would just take the graphics aspect somewhat seriously.

Now, this is a valid argument and I agree wholeheartedly.


The graphics aspect is so important in a computer game that in many cases, it determines whether it becomes a success or failure. And it is one of the most contributing factors to replay value and how drawn you as a player get into the game.

And it's where you drop the ball in my opinion. I know this is said to death, especially in these forums by dozens of people already -everyone's used to hear it I think people started to call people agree with me here "the hippies of videogaming"- but graphics are only an aspect and depending on the variety of the game itself and the promises of the developers depending on its production value, budget, etc.; the kind of graphics Telltale uses for their games can still be used to the way to success, given that "success" itself is relative. A game that makes more money than what has been paid for, is a success. The chimes of fan appreciation through your communication channels, are a sign of success. For example, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 is sadly a success. At the same time, indie game Terraria is also a MAJOR success even though the community of the latter example is much smaller. As I said before, the tone of the game you aim for is also a big defining factor on which visual style you need to go for.

[Woodsyblue]

I disagree completley batman forever was only a bit silly most parts were really serious

Is this... is this a joke? Have you seen Batman Forever? It's one of the most over-the-top, ridiculous and silly films ever produced! (Bested in this regard perhaps only by its sequel.) Tommy Lee Jones EATS the scenery, Jim Carrey is... well Jim Carrey, and Joel Schumacher seems to be under the impression that the only real Batman worth imitating is Adam West and the gang.

But forget all this for a moment, the argument that you are attacking isn't 'Is Batman Forever a silly or serious film?' it's 'Is Batman Forever sillier than Batman Mask of the Phantasm?' Have you seen Batman Mask of the Phantasm, because you make no mention of it? If not then you can't really have anything constructive to add to the conversation.

Your quote defending Batman Forever as a serious film shows that you have a blinding prejudice against animation over live action, one so strong and fervent your argument could be considered irrational.

[yoman45135]

Is this... is this a joke? Have you seen Batman Forever? It's one of the most over-the-top, ridiculous and silly films ever produced! (Bested in this regard perhaps only by its sequel.) Tommy Lee Jones EATS the scenery, Jim Carrey is... well Jim Carrey, and Joel Schumacher seems to be under the impression that the only real Batman worth imitating is Adam West and the gang.

But forget all this for a moment, the argument that you are attacking isn't 'Is Batman Forever a silly or serious film?' it's 'Is Batman Forever sillier than Batman Mask of the Phantasm?' Have you seen Batman Mask of the Phantasm, because you make no mention of it? If not then you can't really have anything constructive to add to the conversation.

Your quote defending Batman Forever as a serious film shows that you have a blinding prejudice against animation over live action, one so strong and fervent your argument could be considered irrational.

Um yes Jim Carrey was silly in Batman Forever but I am sure you dont know what Batman
is, it is a comic so it having a animated film makes sense and it having a real life action film doesnt, also I recall the comics being a very silly but brutal theme just like the films and tha

[yoman45135]

Sorry It added a extra word at the end which I didnt want

[Vainamoinen]

You can EDIT YOUR POSTS. ;)

[Woodsyblue]

Um yes Jim Carrey was silly in Batman Forever but I am sure you dont know what Batman
is, it is a comic so it having a animated film makes sense and it having a real life action film doesnt, also I recall the comics being a very silly but brutal theme just like the films

Actually there are some very serious Batman comics, such as Batman: The Killing Joke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_The_Killing_Joke), which served as inspiration for a couple of Batman films, including The Dark Knight. To say Batman Forever is silly because it is based off a comic is a gross oversimplification. There are many factors involved, from it being produced by a major toy manufacturer more interested in selling action figures and different kinds of Batmobiles than making anything that resembled a good film, to a delusion on the part of the filmmakers that people wanted a return of the camp style of the old Adam West television show.

But again this is entirely missing the point. You seem to be utterly convinced that live action = automatic seriousness and that animated/comic style = automatic silliness despite the fact that you seem to be deeply ignorant about the latter. The point I and others are trying to put forth is that this isn't always so; live action/realistic can be silly and animated/comic can be serious. It's all about the execution. I'd make a list of animated films, graphic novels and yes, even video games to watch/read/play in order to educate you on the topic but you seem so closed mined about the whole thing it would hardly be worthwhile.

[yoman45135]

But again this is entirely missing the point. You seem to be utterly convinced that live action = automatic seriousness and that animated/comic style = automatic silliness despite the fact that you seem to be deeply ignorant about the latter. The point I and others are trying to put forth is that this isn't always so; live action/realistic can be silly and animated/comic can be serious. It's all about the execution. I'd make a list of animated films, graphic novels and yes, even video games to watch/read/play in order to educate you on the topic but you seem so closed mined about the whole thing it would hardly be worthwhile.

I was not saying that what I said was that Serious live action films and tv programs or even games with decent graphics are always more serious than cartoony serious films and tv programs or game like I said a while ago, if there was a live action film where a family are crying over a dog because it dies but then there was a animated version I would find the real life action one more sad because I believe it more than a animated version, let me use of mice and men (the film version) if there was a animated version with lennie talking about the rabbits people would just laugh because his voice and the animation mixed together looks stupid but a real life version you understand it more and understand the point of it more.

[Woodsyblue]

I was not saying that what I said was that Serious live action films and tv programs or even games with decent graphics are always more serious than cartoony serious films and tv programs or game like I said a while ago, if there was a live action film where a family are crying over a dog because it dies but then there was a animated version I would find the real life action one more sad because I believe it more than a animated version, let me use of mice and men (the film version) if there was a animated version with lennie talking about the rabbits people would just laugh because his voice and the animation mixed together looks stupid but a real life version you understand it more and understand the point of it more.

So you are saying if there was an animated version of Of Mice and Men it would be bad merely because it is animated and thus would have to have poor voice acting and a lack of believability? I really have to come back to the fact that you are clearly ignorant of what animated films are capable of achieving. Look at Grave of the Fireflies, it is an extremely tragic film, even more tragic than Of Mice and Men, and it is completely animated. People don't laugh at it because the voice and animation mixed together looks stupid, they usually just cry or feel really, really sad.

You are completely incapable of providing tangible examples of why animated films are always less serious than a live action equivalent and the fact that you assume that a live action version of Of Mice and Men would have to be bad and people would laugh at it shows an utter lack of imagination. I'll admit, the live action version of Of Mice and Men is really good, but if you think they couldn't make a good animated version you really don't know what animation is capable of.

[yoman45135]

So you are saying if there was an animated version of Of Mice and Men it would be bad merely because it is animated and thus would have to have poor voice acting and a lack of believability? I really have to come back to the fact that you are clearly ignorant of what animated films are capable of achieving. Look at Grave of the Fireflies, it is an extremely tragic film, even more tragic than Of Mice and Men, and it is completely animated. People don't laugh at it because the voice and animation mixed together looks stupid, they usually just cry or feel really, really sad.

You are completely incapable of providing tangible examples of why animated films are always less serious than a live action equivalent, and the fact that you assume that a live action version of Of Mice and Men would have to be bad and people would laugh at it shows an utter lack of imagination. I'll admit, the live action version of Of Mice and Men is really good, but if you think they couldn't make a good animated version you really don't know what animation is capable of.

You didnt understand what I was saying I was saying they would laugh because of lennies voice because of him being disabled but if it is animated it is harder to understand.

[Woodsyblue]

You didnt understand what I was saying I was saying they would laugh because of lennies voice because of him being disabled but if it is animated it is harder to understand.

And you don't understand what I'm saying, that what you're saying isn't necessarily so. Just because it would be animated wouldn't mean it would be harder to understand. You have no basis for saying that other than your personal prejudice against the medium.

[yoman45135]

And you don't understand what I'm saying, that what you're saying isn't necessarily so. Just because it would be animated wouldn't mean it would be harder to understand. You have no basis for saying that other than your personal prejudice against the medium.

I would like to ask you why you prefer animation more than real life, after all real life action is real talent with people acting and having to come up with the emotion to get the audience to be sad, the way I see it animation is just for lazy people or for directors who cant find any good actors or japanase people (Because nearly all there films are animated)

It seems you hate the fact I dont like it when people turn serious films or tv programs into animation but im not the only one who hates it when people turn serious tv programs or films animated look at bttf.com lots of people were outraged at telltales art style for the bttf game.

If you were a big fan of real life action films or tv programs then you would understand why a fair amount of people spread about the telltale games forums keep complaining about the art styles telltale choose, and explaining that there are a few serious animated films wont change the fact Law & Order, Jurrasic Park or Back to the future fans want a decent art style.

If you have not already watch The UNTOUCHABLES and imagine a game was made for it with the worst graphics ever, would you understand if the fans were pissed off.

[Woodsyblue]

I would like to ask you why you prefer animation more than real life, after all real life action is real talent with people acting and having to come up with the emotion to get the audience to be sad, the way I see it animation is just for lazy people or for directors who cant find any good actors or japanase people (Because nearly all there films are animated)

I don't prefer animated over live action, I just have a tremendous about of respect for it. When you say "after all real life action is real talent with people acting and having to come up with the emotion to get the audience to be sad, the way I see it animation is just for lazy people or for directors who cant find any good actors or japanase people (Because nearly all there films are animated)" it just shows how ignorant you are of animation. If this were true why would anyone bother making animated films at all? They actually take a lot longer to make and in some instances even cost more than live action. A director for an animated film actually has to put in a lot more work than a director of a live action film, but if you knew anything about animated films you'd probably know this.

If directors who can't find any good actors are the ones who make animated films then why do big name stars voice all the lead characters in the latest animated films? The english cast of Ponyo included Cate Blanchett, Matt Damon, Liam Neeson and Tina Fey. All of these actors are in high demand, why would they lend their voices to some Japanese anime film when in your world live action is unconditionally superior?

It seems you hate the fact I dont like it when people turn serious films or tv programs into animation but im not the only one who hates it when people turn serious tv programs or films animated look at bttf.com lots of people were outraged at telltales art style for the bttf game

It's not that I hate the fact that you "dont like it when people turn serious films or tv programs into animation," I hate that you have a complete lack of respect for animation as a medium despite really not knowing anyting about it.

You say there are other people who hate the graphical style of BttF. I have at no point said I like the graphical style of BttF: TG, but all the same I can sit here and say there there are a lot of people who loved the graphical style. I've seen a lot more people on these forums that have said they like it then those who don't. There will always be people on each side of this debate. (For the record I can't stand BttF: TG but for reasons other than graphical.)

If you were a big fan of real life action films or tv programs then you would understand why a fair amount of people spread about the telltale games forums keep complaining about the art styles telltale choose, and explaining that there are a few serious animated films wont change the fact Law & Order, Jurrasic Park or Back to the future fans want a decent art style.

I am a big fan of live action and television shows. There is no rule that says I can't be a fan of both live action and animation, this is just you assuming things with no basis.

You say fans want something with a decent art style but the only two art styles you seem to think exist are realistic and not realistic. You only accept realistic but Telltale make small, downloadable games that don't really specialise in graphics. They try to make up for lack of realism with artistic style but you seem to think that's somehow lazy. I don't think that's really a fair assumption to make.

If you have not already watch The UNTOUCHABLES and imagine a game was made for it with the worst graphics ever, would you understand if the fans were pissed off.

As a matter of fact, and completely by coincidence, The Untouchables is one of my favourite films. (I assume you are talking about the 1987 film here and not the original series, you don't really make it clear.) I can actually imagine an Untouchables film with BttF style graphics made by Telltale. In fact if they included good puzzles I think that would be an awesome game.

[yoman45135]

As a matter of fact, and completely by coincidence, The Untouchables is one of my favourite films. (I assume you are talking about the 1987 film here and not the original series, you don't really make it clear.) I can actually imagine an Untouchables film with BttF style graphics made by Telltale. In fact if they included good puzzles I think that would be an awesome game.

I hope your joking it is fine when they are not based on anything and they make animated things but if they animated a serious deppressing film like the Untouchables I have no doubt they would get bad marks just for the cartoony art style

Also quote somebody who said they liked the art style for back to the future and not one of the telltale fans who just make a second account and only ever post one comment and the comment is like this: ''The game was the greatest thing ever it looked exactly like the films and even though you made a few mistakes the game is great and has no problems''

And no im not making that up I have seen many people do that and you can tell they are telltale fans, yes there are people who liked the game, I liked the story but the graphics were a problem back to the future is real life action and the game should be close.

Lets try the other way what is your favourite animated thing ever which you never stop talking about and you have posters of, imagine if someone made a game or film of it with real life action but it didnt look right because it didnt work in real life action as it does in animation, thats how many people felt about the bttf game and I hope telltale learn to add some better graphics for the second season of the bttf game because you get more benefits from good graphics than bad graphics.

[Woodsyblue]

I hope your joking it is fine when they are not based on anything and they make animated things but if they animated a serious deppressing film like the Untouchables I have no doubt they would get bad marks just for the cartoony art style

I'm sure it would get bad marks from you but thankfully you are not the only opinion that matters. Here is a link (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20000319/REVIEWS08/3190301/1023) to Roger Ebert's review of Grave of the Fireflies. Please read it, it's not terribly long. Though if you can't be bothered then at least read this quote (it is really worth reading the whole thing, though):

The book is well-known in Japan, and might easily have inspired a live-action film. It isn't the typical material of animation. But for "Grave of the Fireflies," I think animation was the right choice. Live action would have been burdened by the weight of special effects, violence and action. Animation allows [the directer] to concentrate on the essence of the story, and the lack of visual realism in his animated characters allows our imagination more play; freed from the literal fact of real actors, we can more easily merge the characters with our own associations.

Grave of the Fireflies is a more serious and depressing film than The Untouchables and it's completely animated. You may not believe it's possible but that's because, as I keep saying, you are completely closed minded on what animation is capable of.

Also quote somebody who said they liked the art style for back to the future and not one of the telltale fans who just make a second account and only ever post one comment and the comment is like this: ''The game was the greatest thing ever it looked exactly like the films and even though you made a few mistakes the game is great and has no problems''

And no im not making that up I have seen many people do that and you can tell they are telltale fans, yes there are people who liked the game, I liked the story but the graphics were a problem back to the future is real life action and the game should be close.

Here is a poll (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17272&) where people are outright asked if they think the game should be realistic or cartoony and the majority of people said they prefer it to be cartoony. I'm not sure what further proof you need to be convinced that of all the things that was wrong with BttF: TG the graphics isn't widely considered to be one of them.

I also found this little gem (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27212). The OP says that he thinks that BttF would work perfectly as an animated film and nobody else in the thread say it wouldn't work stylisticly.

And finally, here's another poll (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24739) a fan started saying that they should make the game into a CGI film, to which the majority votes yes.

Lets try the other way what is your favourite animated thing ever which you never stop talking about and you have posters of, imagine if someone made a game or film of it with real life action but it didnt look right because it didnt work in real life action as it does in animation, thats how many people felt about the bttf game and I hope telltale learn to add some better graphics for the second season of the bttf game because you get more benefits from good graphics than bad graphics.

I have to point you back to the above graphs. The many people you speak of that feel that BttF: TG had the wrong art style are the minority. There aren't even any art style bashing threads like this one over at the BttF forums. I really don't think that there are as many people supporting you on this as you seem to think there are. At best it's a vocal minority.

[yoman45135]

Here is a poll (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17272&) where people are outright asked if they think the game should be realistic or cartoony and the majority of people said they prefer it to be cartoony. I'm not sure what further proof you need to be convinced that of all the things that was wrong with BttF: TG the graphics isn't widely considered to be one of them.

I also found this little gem (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27212). The OP says that he thinks that BttF would work perfectly as an animated film and nobody else in the thread say it wouldn't work stylisticly.




The first thing you said I notice most of the people who voted cartoony said they wanted it inbetween which I dont have anything against and the other people were telltale fans who are of course going to support cartoony graphics

Also the thing about a animated film the OP said he watched tintin and thinks it would work well for back to the future, tintin is a realistic cartoon but telltales art style is incredibly unrealistic.

I have said many times before in other thread's I dont want uncharted or la noire graphics, just something which looks right and I can tell you that the art style for bttf the game does not suit it at all

You have not made a refrence to back to the future so im not sure if you have seen back to the future films but go and watch them, they are a very good set of films and if you took the jokes and the odd silly scene's out I would say it is a very serious film and the fans on bttf.com have said they want a more realistic art style.

(Also this is becoming more about Back to the future and not so much about Law & Order)

[Jennifer]

Animated films can definitely handle very serious material if done well. Check out this animated adaptation The Tell-Tale Heart (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4s9V8aQu4c). It is the most faithful adaptation of an Edgar Allen Poe poem that I have ever seen, animated or live-action.

[yoman45135]

Animated films can definitely handle very serious material if done well. Check out this animated adaptation The Tell-Tale Heart (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4s9V8aQu4c). It is the most faithful adaptation of an Edgar Allen Poe poem that I have ever seen, animated or live-action.

Yes if it is done well but thats rare and telltale well they always add jokes to there games combine crappy graphics and jokes and it straight away looks like they are making fun.

[Woodsyblue]

The first thing you said I notice most of the people who voted cartoony said they wanted it inbetween which I dont have anything against and the other people were telltale fans who are of course going to support cartoony graphics

A lot of people on the first couple of pages wrote that they'd like to see something in-between but the point is that when asked flat out, black and white, one way or the other would people prefer the game to be realistic or cartoony the majority of people said cartoony. If people were as disgusted as the art style as you say they are this wouldn't be the case, it would be the other way around.

You are completely discounting the opinions of people who are fans of Telltale but I could just as easily say we should discount the opinions of people like you because you are clearly prejudiced against cartoon styles despite being ignorant of the history of animation and what can be achieved though the medium. Not to mention we could do the same with all the graphics whores who aren't happy with any game not running on the latest Unreal Engine. With any debate there will always be people deeply prejudiced one way or the other and unable to see reason, but the usually cancel each other out (and make life miserable for the rest of us.)

Also the thing about a animated film the OP said he watched tintin and thinks it would work well for back to the future, tintin is a realistic cartoon but telltales art style is incredibly unrealistic.

The idea of a realistic cartoon seems to go against everything you've said in your past posts. So you admit that cartoons can be realistic?

You have not made a refrence to back to the future so im not sure if you have seen back to the future films but go and watch them, they are a very good set of films and if you took the jokes and the odd silly scene's out I would say it is a very serious film and the fans on bttf.com have said they want a more realistic art style.

I have seen the bttf films many times, I even own them all on DVD and Blu-ray. And I'm sorry but your definition of serious here is very skewed. BttF does not take itself seriously at all, and that's a huge part of what makes them good. I'm not saying serious = bad because there are many excellent serious films out there but bttf is very clearly not one of them.

Marty jamming Johnny B Goode in front of a crowd of 1950's teenagers is not serious, Marty going back to the American wild west in a pink cowboy outfit is not serious, Michael J. Fox playing his own daughter is not serious, the Flux Capacitor is not serious, Doc's crazy inventions are not serious, the delorien time travel machine in not serious. These are all jokes and are all ones off the top of my head.

If you take out all the silly scenes you really aren't left with much of anything. BttF does not attempt to be realistic, not even a little. It's a comedy and its subject for parody is different eras in time. It's light-hearted silly fun. Even the very concept of the whole film series, travelling through time in a delorian, is a joke. If you think the BttF films are serious then you are deluded. Deeply, deeply deluded.

the fans on bttf.com have said they want a more realistic art style.

I took a loot at the bttf.com forums and saw a lot of what I see here: differing opinions. Some were vocally against the art style and some said it suited. I don't think you can say with any authority how the people at bttf.com feel one way or another about the topic. However, in your world where everyone who is against the graphics is right and everyone who is for it is a fanboy and their opinion is discounted I can see why you would think that everyone over there is on your side.

[yoman45135]

I took a loot at the bttf.com forums and saw a lot of what I see here: differing opinions. Some were vocally against the art style and some said it suited. I don't think you can say with any authority how the people at bttf.com feel one way or another about the topic. However, in your world where everyone who is against the graphics is right and everyone who is for it is a fanboy and their opinion is discounted I can see why you would think that everyone over there is on your side.

Im not saying that people who prefer cartoony graphics are completley wrong full stop in everything but with back to the future they are wrong, true fans take back to the future very seriously and most fans dont like the art style.

to try and make this more about law & order read this:

http://www.appolicious.com/games/articles/10644-law-order-legacies-is-more-like-interactive-tv-than-adventure-gaming

The guy said he didnt like the art style, are you going to say his opinion is wrong and he is not a fan because he also thinks the art style is just wrong.

I will admit there are some cartoony films which can be more serious than a real life film but I will not agree that a cartoony art style is the best art style for a bttf or law & order game because if you asked the true fans most of them would say they want a more realistic art style.

[leon101]

Wait... people actually give a **** about graphics!? Guess, I'm a freak. Liking all that game play, I mean, games have nothing to do with game play right? Apparently.

Anyway, personally, I like the cell shading. I think it looks nice. I never found Law & Order to be that much of a drama anyhow. It's a good show though.

[Woodsyblue]

Im not saying that people who prefer cartoony graphics are completley wrong full stop in everything but with back to the future they are wrong, true fans take back to the future very seriously and most fans dont like the art style.

to try and make this more about law & order read this:

http://www.appolicious.com/games/articles/10644-law-order-legacies-is-more-like-interactive-tv-than-adventure-gaming

The guy said he didnt like the art style, are you going to say his opinion is wrong and he is not a fan because he also thinks the art style is just wrong.

I will admit there are some cartoony films which can be more serious than a real life film but I will not agree that a cartoony art style is the best art style for a bttf or law & order game because if you asked the true fans most of them would say they want a more realistic art style.

Your definition of a true fan here seems to be people who line up with your own opinion. I could just as easily say that the true BttF fans are the people who embrace cartoony graphics that are more in line with the silliness of the film series. I have no less right to label someone a true fan as you do. It's not really fair to call people on one side of the debate true fans and the other side not. It's a label people apply to delude themselves into thinking they are right and others are wrong. Saying you are a true fan doesn't make your flawed argument any stronger.

The reviewer you posted talks about graphics but as an aside. After talking about the graphics she immediately says "The real issue is gameplay," and then goes into detail about that. She understands that the graphics are only part of it, a part that pails in comparison to aspects such as gameplay, which sound like the real problem with Law & Order (and BttF while we're at it). It sounds like she'd have said the game was bad even if it did have the right art style.

I think it's important for you to know that art style isn't the only thing that makes a good game, it's not even the most important aspect, just one of many.

[yoman45135]

Your definition of a true fan here seems to be people who line up with your own opinion. I could just as easily say that the true BttF fans are the people who embrace cartoony graphics that are more in line with the silliness of the film series. I have no less right to label someone a true fan as you do. It's not really fair to call people on one side of the debate true fans and the other side not. It's a label people apply to delude themselves into thinking they are right and others are wrong. Saying you are a true fan doesn't make your flawed argument any stronger.

The reviewer you posted talks about graphics but as an aside. After talking about the graphics she immediately says "The real issue is gameplay," and then goes into detail about that. She understands that the graphics are only part of it, a part that pails in comparison to aspects such as gameplay, which sound like the real problem with Law & Order (and BttF while we're at it). It sounds like she'd have said the game was bad even if it did have the right art style.

I think it's important for you to know that art style isn't the only thing that makes a good game, it's not even the most important aspect, just one of many.

I didnt say that fans who dont care about the cartoony graphics are wrong at all look at what I posted.

Also the reviewer also didnt like the art style and I didnt say graphics are the most important aspect, it just needs to look nicer I think graphics just a tad better than jurrasic park are perfect for bttf or law and order for all of telltales games really.(Not sam and max or Tales of Money Island or wallace and gromit)

Back to the future has odd silly scenes yes but overall people take it very seriously, you made it sound like a spoof the way you described it and failed to see the point of some of those scenes like the time machiene being a delorean or why he played the song Johnny B good in front of everyone,
It fits into being a comedy not a spoof, and usually comedys dont get so many refrences like:

> Nike Shoe's
> Argentina shop advert
>Tv advert
>Many quotes in films and tv programs (I have seen about 30)
>Huge refrence in the spike awards beginning
>One of the scenes played at the Oscars

And many more.

The people have put effort into making delorean time machienes and telltale dont even put effort into graphics.

also because you keep saying I hate cartoony graphics, Thats a lie some of my favourite games are cartoony or Zork which has no graphics at all and I enjoy that game.

I just hate it when you take a film which is taken incredibly seriously by it's fans and give it crap graphics.

Please open your mind and try and see like me and a lot of fans.
I respect your opinion but I am sure I am a bigger bttf fan than you and know more about that art style fits bttf than you.

[Woodsyblue]

I didnt say that fans who dont care about the cartoony graphics are wrong at all look at what I posted.

Maybe you should look at what you posted, you said they were wrong about BttF. In fact your exact words were "Im not saying that people who prefer cartoony graphics are completley wrong full stop in everything but with back to the future they are wrong, true fans take back to the future very seriously and most fans dont like the art style."

I'll also mention that you say they are wrong without saying why they are wrong. All you talk about is seriousness and who the true fans are, like you have the right to decide such things.

Also the reviewer also didnt like the art style and I didnt say graphics are the most important aspect, it just needs to look nicer I think graphics just a tad better than jurrasic park are perfect for bttf or law and order for all of telltales games really.(Not sam and max or Tales of Money Island or wallace and gromit)

Jurassic Park's graphics got blasted way worse than BttF, they look nice on the surface but the people and dinosaurs have stiff, unrealistic animations. On the whole people seemed more happy with the BttF graphics than JP's so I'm not quite sure why you are clambering for "just a tad better than jurrasic park" graphics.

Back to the future has odd silly scenes yes but overall people take it very seriously,

Back to the Future is all odd silly scenes. Almost every scene in the film is laden with gags and jokes. Look at the opening sequence, which sets the scene for the entire movie. You're in a house and the camera is panning past old newspaper articles, an absurd amount of clocks, and some of Doc's crazy inventions. Marty enters and flicks on a bunch of switches and turns up some dials to full one by one. He plugs his electric guitar into into a comically massive set of speakers. Then he plays a note on the guitar and the speaker explodes, the force of the explosion sends Marty flying into a La-Z-Boy on the other side of the room and a set of shelves collapses on him. He pulls himself out of the mess, unhurt and unscratched. 'Whoa, rock'n'roll,' he says. This is not something that happens in a serious film, it's more like a live action cartoon, right down to the slapstick. Less than five minutes into the film I've found an example of it not being serious. If you still don't believe me I can find a lot more. I think this live action cartoon style the film has is a big reason why a lot of people (though clearly not you) have accepted the cartoony art style of the game. The films are not totally unlike a cartoon, and thus cartoon visuals in the game are not out of place.

you made it sound like a spoof the way you described it and failed to see the point of some of those scenes like the time machiene being a delorean or why he played the song Johnny B good in front of everyone,

You keep saying people take it seriously but just because you do but this doesn't mean the films take themselves seriously.

And don't say I've missed the point of the scenes. First off it's not best to challenge my film knowledge, I'm an A+ average cinema studies student and have spent a considerable amount of time dissecting films and looking at what makes them work. Second off, you are right about one thing, it's not a spoof it's a comedy, but it still doesn't take itself seriously, few comedies do.

You take it seriously, fine, but that doesn't mean the media associated with the franchise has to adhere to your vision of what the films are, especially when your vision is as misguided as thinking the films are serious. I think it's more important that they adhere to the spirit of the films, which is more cartoony in nature then I'm sure you're ever going to admit.

It fits into being a comedy not a spoof, and usually comedys dont get so many refrences like:

> Nike Shoe's
> Argentina shop advert
>Tv advert
>Many quotes in films and tv programs (I have seen about 30)
>Huge refrence in the spike awards beginning
>One of the scenes played at the Oscars

And many more.

I don't understand the point of this list. So are you saying the films are high profile? Do you think the films being high profile somehow make them more serious than other comedies? I'm a bit lost by this to be perfictly honost.

The people have put effort into making delorean time machienes and telltale dont even put effort into graphics.

Why do you think cartoony graphics equate a lack of effort? And we're talking about small, downloadable games here. Telltale needs to keep the file sizes low so people with bad internet connections can still have access to their games. There was never any hope that Telltale would have AAA realistic graphics, it's more a matter of art style.

also because you keep saying I hate cartoony graphics, Thats a lie some of my favourite games are cartoony or Zork which has no graphics at all and I enjoy that game.

Good to hear, I just hope you give more respect to cartoony games then you do to animated movies.

Also, check your wording. I can't lie to you about what you like, only you can lie about what you like. I can accuse and you can admit or deny; that's about the extent of it.

I just hate it when you take a film which is taken incredibly seriously by it's fans and give it crap graphics.

And I think this pet peeve of yours has blinded you to a couple of realities:

1) The majority of people don't agree with you on the art style.
2) The films aren't supposed to be serious, they're fun, over-the-top popcorn entertainment with some decent human drama thrown in to ground the experience.

Please open your mind and try and see like me and a lot of fans.
I respect your opinion but I am sure I am a bigger bttf fan than you and know more about that art style fits bttf than you.

I'm not the one with the closed mind here. Alas, you are still under the impression that your opinion on BttF's art style is the only one that matters. Why? Because you take it more seriously? You take Back to the Future so seriously you fail see how little it takes itself seriously. Yes, you're a fan but you don't seem to understand the subject of your fandom. Taking something seriously doesn't necessarily mean you understand it.

You really have yet to come up with a good reason why the BttF game should have had a realistic art direction. All you do is talk about seriousness and apparent unhappy fans who don't seem to be a numerous as you think they are. You keep saying the films are serious and yet you have provided no reasons why you think they are serious.

For both our sakes please explain, hopefully using examples, why you think BttF, which is filled with jokes and gags and unrealistic cartoony elements, is such a serious film series, because I don't understand where you are coming from with this.

[Vainamoinen]

Please take a bit of heat out of this discussion. Otherwise, continue. ;)

Also, consider the results of this poll done in the BTTF forum on whether the game should have "cartoony" or "realistic" graphics:

http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17272

With 419 voters, this is probably one of the most representative polls ever done on this forum.

[yoman45135]

Maybe you should look at what you posted, you said they were wrong about BttF. In fact your exact words were "Im not saying that people who prefer cartoony graphics are completley wrong full stop in everything but with back to the future they are wrong, true fans take back to the future very seriously and most fans dont like the art style."

I'll also mention that you say they are wrong without saying why they are wrong. All you talk about is seriousness and who the true fans are, like you have the right to decide such things.



Jurassic Park's graphics got blasted way worse than BttF, they look nice on the surface but the people and dinosaurs have stiff, unrealistic animations. On the whole people seemed more happy with the BttF graphics than JP's so I'm not quite sure why you are clambering for "just a tad better than jurrasic park" graphics.



Back to the Future is all odd silly scenes. Almost every scene in the film is laden with gags and jokes. Look at the opening sequence, which sets the scene for the entire movie. You're in a house and the camera is panning past old newspaper articles, an absurd amount of clocks, and some of Doc's crazy inventions. Marty enters and flicks on a bunch of switches and turns up some dials to full one by one. He plugs his electric guitar into into a comically massive set of speakers. Then he plays a note on the guitar and the speaker explodes, the force of the explosion sends Marty flying into a La-Z-Boy on the other side of the room and a set of shelves collapses on him. He pulls himself out of the mess, unhurt and unscratched. 'Whoa, rock'n'roll,' he says. This is not something that happens in a serious film, it's more like a live action cartoon, right down to the slapstick. Less than five minutes into the film I've found an example of it not being serious. If you still don't believe me I can find a lot more. I think this live action cartoon style the film has is a big reason why a lot of people (though clearly not you) have accepted the cartoony art style of the game. The films are not totally unlike a cartoon, and thus cartoon visuals in the game are not out of place.



You keep saying people take it seriously but just because you do but this doesn't mean the films take themselves seriously.

And don't say I've missed the point of the scenes. First off it's not best to challenge my film knowledge, I'm an A+ average cinema studies student and have spent a considerable amount of time dissecting films and looking at what makes them work. Second off, you are right about one thing, it's not a spoof it's a comedy, but it still doesn't take itself seriously, few comedies do.

You take it seriously, fine, but that doesn't mean the media associated with the franchise has to adhere to your vision of what the films are, especially when your vision is as misguided as thinking the films are serious. I think it's more important that they adhere to the spirit of the films, which is more cartoony in nature then I'm sure you're ever going to admit.



I don't understand the point of this list. So are you saying the films are high profile? Do you think the films being high profile somehow make them more serious than other comedies? I'm a bit lost by this to be perfictly honost.



Why do you think cartoony graphics equate a lack of effort? And we're talking about small, downloadable games here. Telltale needs to keep the file sizes low so people with bad internet connections can still have access to their games. There was never any hope that Telltale would have AAA realistic graphics, it's more a matter of art style.



Good to hear, I just hope you give more respect to cartoony games then you do to animated movies.

Also, check your wording. I can't lie to you about what you like, only you can lie about what you like. I can accuse and you can admit or deny; that's about the extent of it.



And I think this pet peeve of yours has blinded you to a couple of realities:

1) The majority of people don't agree with you on the art style.
2) The films aren't supposed to be serious, they're fun, over-the-top popcorn entertainment with some decent human drama thrown in to ground the experience.



I'm not the one with the closed mind here. Alas, you are still under the impression that your opinion on BttF's art style is the only one that matters. Why? Because you take it more seriously? You take Back to the Future so seriously you fail see how little it takes itself seriously. Yes, you're a fan but you don't seem to understand the subject of your fandom. Taking something seriously doesn't necessarily mean you understand it.

You really have yet to come up with a good reason why the BttF game should have had a realistic art direction. All you do is talk about seriousness and apparent unhappy fans who don't seem to be a numerous as you think they are. You keep saying the films are serious and yet you have provided no reasons why you think they are serious.

For both our sakes please explain, hopefully using examples, why you think BttF, which is filled with jokes and gags and unrealistic cartoony elements, is such a serious film series, because I don't understand where you are coming from with this.

Yes it is a comedy but look at star wars, do you think that is actually realistic, no but it is taken very seriously, I have watched behind the scene videos and Bob Gale or the rest of the bttf team have never said: ''we added that as a joke'' only time was with the delorean.

Because people keep saying the delorean is a stupid thing for time machiene, what do you think is better, a Limo?

Overall back to the future is taken very seriously and across the internet many people have complained about the art style saying things like: ''It is so stupid, does not fit bttf at all''

So you saying me and a few other people on the telltale forums are the only people who care about good respectable graphics is a lie.

Also you said you think The Untouchables would be perfect with bttf graphics, if you actually think that you are impossible to convince

Now I think this really needs to start being more about Law & Order.

[Falanca]

BttF does not rely on slapstick humor; the franchise is simply not as "dark" to give out more of a serious tone. But the thing is "cartoon style" never necessarily means CHILDISH or anything like that.

[yoman45135]

But the thing is "cartoon style" never necessarily means CHILDISH or anything like that.

Yes I admit I was wrong with that but I will never say that the art style bttf had was perfect, like I said something just a bit better than the jurrasic park art style would work really well.

[Woodsyblue]

Yes it is a comedy but look at star wars, do you think that is actually realistic, no but it is taken very seriously,

Just because people take something seriously doesn't mean it's serious. However, Star Wars is not a comedy, it's straight science fiction with a few good ad-libs. Star Wars is not set in our reality, there are different rules in the Star Wars universe. In the fictional universe the films take place in, light sabres and gay androids are not out of place. Science fiction fans are renowned for taking the things they love too seriously. With science fiction it's all about making the rules believable in their own context. The shows that succeed offer major escapism which drives a certain percentage of the population nuts. Star Wars isn't realistic to us, but it's realistic to people in the Star Wars universe.

Just so you know I don't think taking these things seriously is wrong. We all have our passions. But looking at something too seriously, especially if it's not something that's serious in the first place can blind you into thinking you know more about what you are a fan of then other people. You've repeatedly said you think you know more about what BttF: TG's art style should be like than me with the only basis for this being you think you are the bigger fan. You may like BttF more but that doesn't mean you know what's right for it.

I have watched behind the scene videos and Bob Gale or the rest of the bttf team have never said: ''we added that as a joke'' only time was with the delorean.

Um, this doesn't prove your point, this doesn't prove your point even a little. BttF is filled with jokes and I can assure you that they are intentional on the part of the filmmakers. They put the jokes in and they know what they are doing.

Because people keep saying the delorean is a stupid thing for time machiene, what do you think is better, a Limo?

The delorean is an awesome time machine! Just because it's not taken seriously doesn't mean it's bad. I don't know you, but I feel it's very important that you learn this distinction.

Overall back to the future is taken very seriously and across the internet many people have complained about the art style saying things like: ''It is so stupid, does not fit bttf at all''

And even more people have said they feel it works. We've been over all this, you are talking about a vocal minority.

So you saying me and a few other people on the telltale forums are the only people who care about good respectable graphics is a lie.

I've already told you once about using the word lie inappropriately and here you've gone and done it again. I'm not lying to anyone, I'm telling the truth as I know it. If you think I'm wrong back it up with evidence.

Also you said you think The Untouchables would be perfect with bttf graphics, if you actually think that you are impossible to convince

I never said The Untouchables with BttF graphics would be perfect, I said I could imagine it, and I can. Now again, I'm assuming you are talking about the 1987 movie and not the series, because you still haven't specified. I'm going to go off that assumption. Think about how stylised that film is, how all the characters look amazingly distinctive. Shape, size and dress sense every character in that film is unique and memorable. That's something that could translate very well to a cartoon-like art direction. You don't even need to tone down the violence. A cartoon-like art direction, if done right, would emphasis the distinctive style of the film. It'd never happen but then again five years ago I probably would have said the same about BttF.

BttF does not rely on slapstick humor; the franchise is simply not as "dark" to give out more of a serious tone. But the thing is "cartoon style" never necessarily means CHILDISH or anything like that.

In fairness I never said BttF relied on slapstick, only that it contained it, and it does. And you are right, BttF is many things but it's not dark. It's light-hearted family fun.

[caeska]

Please take a bit of heat out of this discussion. Otherwise, continue. ;)

Also, consider the results of this poll done in the BTTF forum on whether the game should have "cartoony" or "realistic" graphics:

http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17272

With 419 voters, this is probably one of the most representative polls ever done on this forum.

400 votes that do not represent the thousands of people who have played the game, and who do not participate in discussions on this forum. Besides, it could just as easily be one guy making 260 accounts, and that certainly won't make the results of the poll true.
The fact of the matter is; realistic graphics are better than silly cartoony graphics and suit games like BTTF and Law & Order infinitely better.

[Falanca]

In fairness I never said BttF relied on slapstick, only that it contained it, and it does. And you are right, BttF is many things but it's not dark. It's light-hearted family fun.

I just wanted to point out the slapstick usage in BttF should not be used to "describe" the franchise as a whole. But yeah, it's light-hearted enough to CONTAIN such scenes here and there.

I just cannot understand -nor attempt to do so- people claiming the SUPERIORITY of realism of visuals, over wacky interpretations which we call "cartoony". Not one of them is "better" than the other one, both are only to be used in where needed. Why is realism better? I mean is it better because more effort went it rendering the 3d models because of all the polygons, realistic dents and bulges on faces and stuff like that? I mean... What's your deal on this anyway? Does it really mean that they didn't put enough effort on models and visuals when the graphics aren't over-detailed? No, I mean, realistic visuals is tracing of your surroundings or recreating it on a sheet of paper or a 3d virtual environment. The term "cartoon" involves INTERPRETATION, freedom of changing certain aspects of reality as you want and visualizing it this way. You need to have a feel of "style" so that your version of this reality won't look off or unfaithful to the original material. There IS a big amount of effort, you just don't see it all because most of the effort is hidden behind what you're presented.

[TaeZ]

I am a huge bttf fan and I like graphics in game. I don't see why anyone wouldn't. Characters were recognizable, environments were all nice and in matching art style. I think someone's taste in graphics has nothing to do with a person being a Telltale fanboy or a fanboy of franchise they're making game for. One thing I don't like though in some of Telltale's games are characters eyes, they're very inanimate and sometimes look very weird especially when looking down.

[yoman45135]

It's light-hearted family fun.

Your horribly wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7RKdWnUgLM

Watch all of it and dont skip any bits of it.

[yoman45135]

I don't see why anyone wouldn't.

Maybe because the graphics dont match, the film is taken seriously by it's fans and the graphics look weird and make the people look diffrent.

You can have your own opinion sure, but if you think having minecraft graphics would be better than good graphics im not sure your a real fan.

[Vainamoinen]

400 votes that do not represent the thousands of people who have played the game, and who do not participate in discussions on this forum. Besides, it could just as easily be one guy making 260 accounts, and that certainly won't make the results of the poll true.
The fact of the matter is; realistic graphics are better than silly cartoony graphics and suit games like BTTF and Law & Order infinitely better.

I did not quote that poll for the ultimate "truth", but quite explicitly "for your consideration" only. But it seems like I have to throw in a bit of interpretation as well.

First, no, this can explicitly not be one guy making 270 accounts (or one guy making 150 for that matter). The attempt to manipulate polls that way is very rare on these forums and the manipulator is practically always caught. No sane community member goes through the pain of making several accounts (which is considered trolling and a bannable offense already) just to push some numbers here. To my knowledge, it has occurred only when the manipulator thought he or she could actually win something by doing it - i.e. when contest polls were made. Needless to say, those people are always caught.

Second, concerning the specific sample of people that were voting here: We must assume that they consist of hardcore TTG and BTTF fans. The TTG fans in anticipation of the next game and the BTTF fans freshly swept into this forum just trying to make their voice heard. There's no point in discussing how representative this is concerning ALL eventual players of BTTF. Most of them were just going with what they got later on. If there's any wisdom to be found in this poll, you would of course at best consider this a rather big sample of the people who anticipated the game most at a time when hardly anything was known about how the game would eventually look.

Third, this poll hardly shows an overwhelming result for the cartoony graphics "side". It fails to reach a two thirds majority even. Hell, I don't even know what I voted on this poll because I explicitly dismissed a classification of graphics as "cartoony" and "realistic" along a linear continuum. That is something that might come along with a serious interest in the graphic design topic... ;)

It doesn't exist. That's the whole problem with asking if you'd like "realistic" graphics or not. EVERY computer graphic representation has some degree of abstraction. And abstraction does not lie along a continuum. You don't just "crank up/down the abstraction" when producing art.

[yoman45135]

First, no, this can explicitly not be one guy making 270 accounts (or one guy making 150 for that matter).

Im not sure he ment that I think he ment that there are millions of fans of bttf and some of them dont even know there is a game so you cant really say that 100 people voting for cartoony graphics is fair because you have to remeber this is telltalegames website and there are going to be hundreds of fans of telltale on here who are more likely to support cartoony graphics than realistic graphics, well thats what I got from what he said anyway :P

[Vainamoinen]

Im not sure he ment that I think he ment that there are millions of fans of bttf and some of them dont even know there is a game so you cant really say that 100 people voting for cartoony graphics is fair because you have to remeber this is telltalegames website and there are going to be hundreds of fans of telltale on here who are more likely to support cartoony graphics than realistic graphics, well thats what I got from what he said anyway :P

So what you are saying is: It would not be fair to consider this rather impressive sample of TTG's and BTTF's dearest, most hardcorest fans and most likely pre-order customers?

Taken the gravity of both sides' arguments into account, I'd still say the relevance of this poll is not to be underestimated.

[yoman45135]

So what you are saying is: It would not be fair to consider this rather impressive sample of TTG's and BTTF's dearest, most hardcorest fans and most likely pre-order customers?

Taken the gravity of both sides' arguments into account, I'd still say the relevance of this poll is not to be underestimated.

The people who voted cartoony are more likely to be ttg fans give or take 10 - 30 bttf fans

[Vainamoinen]

The people who voted cartoony are more likely to be ttg fans give or take 10 - 30 bttf fans

You were obviously late to that party... :D


/edit: There seems to be some confusion concerning this short answer. What I meant was that the influx of BTTF fans into these forums in the months between June 2010 (first announcement) and December 2010 (first episode released) was HUGE. Seriously, incomparable to anything that has happened before or afterwards. So many new community members, it was mind-boggling. In the poll discussion, if you count only those people who registered June to October 2010, you get to 19 who came first and foremost for BTTF, and a fair share of those arguments FOR cartoony graphics.

[Woodsyblue]

Your horribly wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7RKdWnUgLM

Watch all of it and dont skip any bits of it.

The film is not for little kids but that doesn't mean it takes itself seriously. In fact, the only reason they are able to get away with all that stuff in a family film is because it doesn't take itself seriously. If it were a serious film people would be appalled!

Look at the first example in the video, Doc getting shot up by the Libyan terrorists. It uses the same cartoon logic that was brought up in the exploding speaker scene. Doc is pumped full of holes at close range by an AK-47 but there is no blood or gore, even in the timeline where he is actually killed. It's as PG as a brutal, cold-blooded, close-range shooting is ever going to be. It's cartoon violence: all of the intention of real violence with none of the actual brutality.

Also, how young were you when you watched the first film? Be honest. If you were really young did you feel traumatised by the events in the film, like the host of that video implied you would have been? I know I sure wasn't.

Maybe because the graphics dont match, the film is taken seriously by it's fans and the graphics look weird and make the people look diffrent.

You can have your own opinion sure, but if you think having minecraft graphics would be better than good graphics im not sure your a real fan.

BttF is hardly Minecraft, you are taking your hyperbole too far.

OK, you keep saying 'the film is taken seriously by it's fans.' You can't speak on behalf of other BttF fans, you can only convey your own opinion. You're opinion is that you think the game uses the wrong art direction, and you are entitled to that opinion, but you can't say that there are all these BttF fans out there that agree with you that it's something to be taken seriously. Only they can talk for themselves.

The only qualifiers that you seem to use to label someone a real BttF fan is how much they agree with you on the issue of art style on the BttF game and how seriously they take the films. You are saying that people who disagree with you might not be real fans (at least that's what you've said about me and TaeZ) and that the real fans are the people who agree with you. This is such a dangerous way to think. You are using labels to discredit in your own mind another person's opinion. "Oh, what he says doesn't mean anything, he's not a real BttF fan. A real BttF fan wouldn't think that." (Dramatization, not intended to be taken as the literal workings of your mind.) If you play these mental gymnastics you'll always convince yourself you are right even if you don't have any evidence or reason to feel the way you do.

What is a fan? Somebody who likes something. But just because you like something doesn't mean you have the right to tell other people what's right and what isn't. Stick to saying your own opinion and the reason you came to that opinion. You don't even have the right to say who is a true fan and who isn't. Anybody who likes it is a fan and everybody, fan or not, is entitled to an opinion (as long as they are educated on the subject).

You are belittling TaeZ's opinion because you don't think he's a true fan as you put it. You are literally saying if he thinks having minecraft graphics would be better than, as you put it, 'good graphics,' he's not a real fan. He's a real fan if he likes the franchise. What right do you have to take that away from him?

[Vainamoinen]

The idea that "true fans" would necessarily go for a realistic approach is certainly inappropriate. There are quite a lot of "true fans" out there who accept the animated series wholeheartedly (personally, I don't).

80's US movies were a lot more violent than today's. What gets parents up in arms today wasn't really a problem yesterday. So, yes, BTTF is a family movie. I was 12 when I first saw it. What stuck were skateboards & rock'n'roll, not terrorists and rape attempts. BTW, the Lybians were as cartoony a terrorist threat as humanly possible in a live action movie. :D

I recently saw "Adventures in Babysitting" (1987) again. Was pretty shocked actually. That was PG-13, that was an unquestionable family movie back then. Attempted murder, organized crime, chop shops, gang fights, shootouts, adultery, playboy magazines, hookers, swearing and what have you, it's all in there. That was 80's family entertainment, and BTTF was the milder variety.

[NSM]

The people who voted cartoony are more likely to be ttg fans give or take 10 - 30 bttf fans

I feel like I'm going crazy, because people are responding reasonably to a comment that makes no sense to me. The people who voted cartoony are more like to be Telltale Games fans? On what basis do you make that assertion? Why are TTG fans and BTTF fans now mutually exclusive groups?

[Vainamoinen]

I feel like I'm going crazy, because people are responding reasonably to a comment that makes no sense to me.

...that's how we roll. :D :D

Why are TTG fans and BTTF fans now mutually exclusive groups?

Good point. I was about the biggest BTTF fan alive when this game was announced. I came here earlier for ToMI and S&M noneteless.

[yoman45135]

The people who voted cartoony are more like to be Telltale Games fans? On what basis do you make that assertion?

Because telltale games fans dont care for good graphics they prefer cartoony art styles, it is unlikely they would change there opinion on graphics for even something as popular as back to the future.

[NSM]

Because telltale games fans dont care for good graphics they prefer cartoony art styles.

You realise that these things you're stating aren't facts, right? Because I feel like I need to point that out. It's like saying that people who liked the Lion King will never play Crysis.

Let's, just for the sake of argument, say that "good graphics" and "cartoony styles" are mutually exclusive. Are you arguing that it's not possible to like both? To appreciate both aesthetics?

[yoman45135]

You realise that these things you're stating aren't facts, right? Because I feel like I need to point that out. It's like saying that people who liked the Lion King will never play Crysis.

Let's, just for the sake of argument, say that "good graphics" and "cartoony styles" are mutually exclusive. Are you arguing that it's not possible to like both? To appreciate both aesthetics?

Well if your favourite things are all cartoony and a film (Bttf) you enjoy but it is not your favourite had a game made dont you think you would care more about voting for cartoony graphics than realistic ones.

thats how the telltale games fans are in that poll, its like salt water think of the poll as water and the telltale games fans as salt, its unfair for telltale to think that there are 100 more votes for cartoony graphics that is of course all bttf fans there are no telltale games fans voting, to get pure water you dont put salt in.

Basically what im saying is letting people who have not seen the films (Im sure there are a few who voted cartoony who didnt know its a film)
And love cartoony graphics and counting them as bttf fans is not fair.

Like I said sure there are a few bttf fans who didnt care about the graphics but looking at the results of the poll more of them voted for realistic graphics than cartoony graphics.

[NSM]

Well if your favourite things are all cartoony and a film (Bttf) you enjoy but it is not your favourite had a game made dont you think you would care more about voting for cartoony graphics than realistic ones.


Just because someone likes the Lion King it doesn't mean it's their favourite movie...


thats how the telltale games fans are in that poll, its like salt water think of the poll as water and the telltale games fans as salt, its unfair for telltale to think that there are 100 more votes for cartoony graphics that is of course all bttf fans there are no telltale games fans voting, to get pure water you dont put salt in.


Some people would think that some of those voting were BTTF AND Telltale fans, but that'd be crazy, right?


Basically what im saying is letting people who have not seen the films (Im sure there are a few who voted cartoony who didnt know its a film)And love cartoony graphics and counting them as bttf fans is not fair.


Yup, that's an actual thing you said...


Like I said sure there are a few bttf fans who didnt care about the graphics but looking at the results of the poll more of them voted for realistic graphics than cartoony graphics.


Why are there only a few and not many? Did you interview them afterwards to make sure?

[yoman45135]

Why are there only a few and not many? Did you interview them afterwards to make sure?

There was about 100 more votes more for cartoony graphics, there are thousands of telltalegames fans forums members about 50 of them likely voted for cartoony graphics leaving about 50 bttf fans.

I doubt all of the people who voted for cartoony graphics are all bttf fans.

[NSM]

I doubt all of the people who voted for cartoony graphics are all bttf fans.

It's for the best that most decisions aren't based on doubts and gut feel...If you doubt it, then what percentage of those people voting for cartoony graphics are not fans of bttf, and why do you say that?

You're missing the point that was made in any event. The point made is that the number of votes is fairly high and perhaps forms a representative sample (though you could perhaps argue otherwise due to selection bias). Most surveys are done this way, incidentally. At least Vainamoinen tried to back his statements up with actual evidence and not personal doubts...

[yoman45135]

At least Vainamoinen tried to back his statements up with actual evidence and not personal doubts...

How am I supposed to prove that more of the people who voted cartoony are telltale games fans more than bttf fans?!!

Want me to track them down and break into there house?

No way for me to be able to prove it but if you opened your mind you would actually find what im saying to be true.

More telltale fans are going to be on the forums than bttf fans.
want to argue against that as well?

What will it be? Uh they all left and got replaced by bttf fans
All of you just keep finding reasons to argue against what im saying, also Jurassic park graphics with more polish is not hard at all and it is very easy for telltale to make so I dont understand why everyone seems to find it important to argue that the graphics should be as bad as telltale can make them.

[NSM]

How am I supposed to prove that more of the people who voted cartoony are telltale games fans more than bttf fans?!!


If you can't prove it and have no idea how to prove it, then why are you arguing it so vehemntly? It just seems really strange.


More telltale fans are going to be on the forums than bttf fans.
want to argue against that as well?


I'm going to point out three logical errors that you keep making:

1) Failing to accept that BTTF fans and TTG fans are not mutually exclusive groups. Back to the Future was the top grossing movie of 1985 and, adjusted for inflation, is the 59th highest grossing movie of all time and considered a classic of its genre. It has a huge fanbase and cross-polination is inevitable.

2) Announcing the release of a Back to the Future game would attract a large number of BTTF fans to the website and, by extention, the site's forums.

3) A fair number of people voted that they want realistic graphics (36%). Which means that you're either arguing that a bit more than a third of those who voted are TTG fans AND prefer realistic graphics (undermining your own point) or that the forum was flooded with BTTF fans who ONLY voted for realistic graphics which kinda supports my second point..


Jurassic park graphics with more polish is not hard at all and it is very easy for telltale to make so I dont understand why everyone seems to find it important to argue that the graphics should be as bad as telltale can make them.

What games have you designed? What experience do you have with 3D modeling and animation? On what grounds is it "very easy" to make Jurassic Park's graphics better? Just asking you to back up your statements with, you know, facts.

[yoman45135]

What games have you designed? What experience do you have with 3D modeling and animation? On what grounds is it "very easy" to make Jurassic Park's graphics better? Just asking you to back up your statements with, you know, facts.

Oh I have not made a game with good graphics but my friend's brother is making a game which has graphics twice as good as jurassic park and they have not even spent much money on the programs.

[Ribs]

Please open your mind and try and see like me and a lot of fans.
I respect your opinion but I am sure I am a bigger bttf fan than you and know more about that art style fits bttf than you.

Once again, you are being very, very rude.

[Vainamoinen]

I respect your opinion but I am sure I am a bigger bttf fan than you and know more about that art style fits bttf than you.

Yup, are we playing "who's the bigger BTTF fan" now?

BTW, why isn't your user name even connected to the Back to the Future series? Do you even know how many McFlys, DocBrowns and MichaelJFoxes we had registered in 2010? Aren't they necessarily the bigger fans, eh?? :D :D

Bottom line: you can't prove who's a "bigger" BTTF fan hands down. And you can not assume that someone who accepts a certain art style in a game would be a lesser and therefore less valid voice in this discussion. It's a dangerous direction. Best to drop it before we start bringing up quantifiable things.

Like years of fandom.

[puzzlebox]

Sooo... Law & Order huh?

[Vainamoinen]

Yup, epic derail over here, but possibly for a reason. :D

I do wonder how many TTG forumites are actually "true fans" of the L&O series, thus justifying their "demand" for "realistic" graphics.

Anyone seen every episode of original & every spin-off series every year?

And who registered under a name from the series??

[Ribs]

Yup, epic derail over here, but possibly for a reason. :D

I do wonder how many TTG forumites are actually "true fans" of the L&O series, thus justifying their "demand" for "realistic" graphics.

Anyone seen every episode of original & every spin-off series every year?

And who registered under a name from the series??

I like Law and Order. But I'd never watch every episode. It's a good show to watch once a week, or maybe every other week, but my problem with it and a number of other procedurals is their incredibly formulaic episode structure.

I still feel the right to defend this, like anyone would. It was a decision, and it's not going to change, so after voicing your dislike of it you can either leave or stop complaining, but this discussion should not just keep running in the same loop it has.

[Vainamoinen]

I still feel the right to defend this, like anyone would. It was a decision, and it's not going to change, so after voicing your dislike of it you can either leave or stop complaining, but this discussion should not just keep running in the same loop it has.

My dislike of what exactly? (Careful, it's a trick question)

[Ribs]

It wasn't directed at you, but rather those who dislike the aesthetic.

[Vainamoinen]

Ahhhhh. Then my work is done.

[Woodsyblue]

Wow, I was going to say a lot of stuff but others have already said it for me, and better then I would have said it too. There is still a bunch of stuff I could argue about but this has gone on long enough and the debate was just going around in circles anyway.

[yoman45135]

If you can't prove it and have no idea how to prove it, then why are you arguing it so vehemntly? It just seems really strange.


I dont need to prove it because I know it is true that there are more telltale fans on the telltale website than bttf fans.

(Hint: It is the name)


Oh and im not gonna start arguing again because I just kept saying the same thing over and over to ignorant people.

Like I said telltale is perfectly capable of making good graphics, more people will say: ''Man the graphics are crap'' than: ''Man the graphics are actually good I cannot play this game''

[MrSneeze]

yoman45135: you'd be excellent at religious propaganda! "No need for proof! Just believe! It's true!"

Someone get the Vatican, quick! Or, and here's another thought, try your luck with Scientology. I'm sure they'd find you a great help!

But yoman45135 is right people. You can't prove Santa exists. You just have to believe!

yoman45135, I own a car made of donuts and I drive it to the moon every weekend. Believe.

[yoman45135]

yoman45135: you'd be excellent at religious propaganda! "No need for proof! Just believe! It's true!"

Someone get the Vatican, quick! Or, and here's another thought, try your luck with Scientology. I'm sure they'd find you a great help!

But yoman45135 is right people. You can't prove Santa exists. You just have to believe!

yoman45135, I own a car made of donuts and I drive it to the moon every weekend. Believe.

It's called logic smartass you have to be dumb or ignorant to actually believe there are more bttf fans on these forums than telltale fans

[JJoyce]

Ok, obviously I'm very late to this, but...just my two cents, having been a Telltale fan since Bone:

It's not that Telltale fans have a "preference for cartoony graphics". It just so happens that the vast majority of games Telltale worked with starting up and at the peak of its popularity were derived from comics/cartoons/animation.

They're very capable of doing more "realistic" graphics as they've shown with Jurassic Park and the CSI series they used to do.

That being said, people have to understand that Telltale's obviously designed L&O Legacies first and foremost as a casual/IOS style project with a lower budget than other projects.

In fact, the art style kinda reminds me of the last L&O game(s) that were released on BigfishGames (they're absolutely awful hidden object-style games focused around the Criminal Intent spinoff).

So...Not only is the art style partly a stylistic/monetary choice, but a case of necessity as well. After all, it's been clearly marketed as an IOS game, which means the capability of the various devices had to be kept in mind unless they wanted to limit their market only to A5 devices (iPhone 4S, iPad 2) which would be ill-advised and even then you wouldn't get Crysis 2 or L.A. Noire.

Having played through the fourth case, the graphics really don't bother me. In fact, they're kind of fitting after you get used to them.

The voice actors on the other hand....don't get me started.

[MrSneeze]

It's called logic smartass you have to be dumb or ignorant to actually believe there are more bttf fans on these forums than telltale fans

No, it's not called logic. It's called 'Pataphysics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pataphysics). Look it up. It's right up your alley.

[yoman45135]

Ok, obviously I'm very late to this, but...just my two cents, having been a Telltale fan since Bone:

It's not that Telltale fans have a "preference for cartoony graphics". It just so happens that the vast majority of games Telltale worked with starting up and at the peak of its popularity were derived from comics/cartoons/animation.

They're very capable of doing more "realistic" graphics as they've shown with Jurassic Park and the CSI series they used to do.

That being said, people have to understand that Telltale's obviously designed L&O Legacies first and foremost as a casual/IOS style project with a lower budget than other projects.

In fact, the art style kinda reminds me of the last L&O game(s) that were released on BigfishGames (they're absolutely awful hidden object-style games focused around the Criminal Intent spinoff).

So...Not only is the art style partly a stylistic/monetary choice, but a case of necessity as well. After all, it's been clearly marketed as an IOS game, which means the capability of the various devices had to be kept in mind unless they wanted to limit their market only to A5 devices (iPhone 4S, iPad 2) which would be ill-advised and even then you wouldn't get Crysis 2 or L.A. Noire.

Having played through the fourth case, the graphics really don't bother me. In fact, they're kind of fitting after you get used to them.

The voice actors on the other hand....don't get me started.

Yes in Law & Orders case I cant really speak because Im only a small fan and I think the art style is ok, but in bttf it is ment to be treated as part 4 and to be blunt the art style just does not look right, I dont care about graphics usually but being a huge bttf fan I just cant think of it as a part 4 because it does not look like one, Enviorment and cars etc are perfect but characters look like dumb actors who dont know how to act.

I just hope now that some of telltale's games are getting better art styles telltale will upgrade bttf to the jurassic park art style, if they do I will rest my case and promise I will not argue about there art styles anymore.

Like you said and I agree most game they use to make are based on comics and cartoons so thats fine but bttf is not so it should look right.

[yoman45135]

No, it's not called logic. It's called 'Pataphysics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pataphysics). Look it up. It's right up your alley.

so your saying I cant be right because you dont agree with what im saying...

Biased much?

[MrSneeze]

so your saying I cant be right because you dont agree with what im saying...

Biased much?

Case in point: I haven't said that, but you've just proven what I said.

Anyway, the truth of the matter is: I don't remember being this cross-eyed when I was 14, but there you have it.

[Vainamoinen]

Yes in Law & Orders case I cant really speak because Im only a small fan and I think the art style is ok,

So we're DONE HERE.

[LikaLaruku]

As an oldschool gamer, I don't give a damn about aesthetics, but the character designs do have some serious rotoscoped-looking Uncanny Valley issues, which as a big fan of L&O I'm willing to suppress the gibblies over. I've had issues with rotoscoping ever since I saw Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings as a kid.

[tarasis]

Been under a rock and didn't know about this game till the email today. From looking at the trailer the art style looks fine. Not sure if I'll get the game as I was never really into L&O (CSI or any other law drama like that)

[eblocksonian]

I think the graphics look fine, now that I got the game, but as good as they are, they don't seem to "fit" L and O. It's water and oil - you need both, but mixing together is just odd.

What we need is more like salt and vinegar. Works well next to each other.

Ironically, if they went this route with BTTF, it would have totally worked.

[yoman45135]

I think the graphics look fine, now that I got the game, but as good as they are, they don't seem to "fit" L and O. It's water and oil - you need both, but mixing together is just odd.

What we need is more like salt and vinegar. Works well next to each other.

Ironically, if they went this route with BTTF, it would have totally worked.

No way it works ok for Law & Order but for bttf I strongly disagree!!

[prusswan]

It's probably right for the price tag and the smaller screens it is meant for. The only way to have it better around the same price is probably using traditional 2D, but that may turn out to be more costly.

[TJ_Moose]

Because this is absolutely ridicilous.
When is TTG going to learn and actually implement some proper graphics and animations into their games?...
:
:
... The graphics aspect is so important in a computer game that in many cases, it determines whether it becomes a success
or failure. And it is one of the most contributing factors to replay value and how drawn you as a player get into the game.

:rolleyes: BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST

Hey caeska, as a fellow-fan that values stellar artwork and graphics in my media entertainment I feel your pain. But I've come to the conclusion that story based-games do not warrant them. Sure it would be nice if I was watching a television program, but I am playing a game.

What is important when playing a story-based game? 1) Story is important; I want to be immersed in the story. I want to be able to follow the plot and make informed decisions. 2) Interface is critical; It should be consistent in operation. I don't want to have to guess how to do something. The interface should not be a guessing game. And 3) the Graphics just need to not get in the way of these two items. Unfortunately, it sounds like the Law & Order graphics do this for you. I respect that.

As a former developer and artist of software-based titles, I can tell you tremendous compromises are made in Research & Development, especially when developing large scale titles such as this. And for the purposes of this discussion, let's just say large scale is defined as any app greater than 20 MB in size. (Downloads greater than 20 MB require WiFi to directly download to your iDevice from iTunes.)

The Pilot Episode of Law & Order: Legacies (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/law-order-legacies/id473003992?mt=8) chimes in at 160 MB. That's eight times (8x!) the size of the defined large-scale 20 MB limit. Just off the top of your head, what percentage of that 160 MB do you think is dedicated to the rich media graphics & audio? I don't work for Telltale, but an educated guess is 90% of the title is rich media.

When rich media is encoded for publication and game play, it goes through compression algorithms to save space. The art style use of rotoscoped pastel-shaded animations lends itself quite nicely to tight compression which actually allows for EVEN MORE animation. If a detailed (denser) graphic/animation style was used, the final compressed data would not be nearly as tight, and it would force the developers to make another compromise to include a smaller subset of animations in the episode, or increase the final app size exponentially.

Now this is not to say that Telltale should not be working on developing or licensing better compression algorithms or that they should stop improving their graphics, that's what Research & Development departments & Design Teams are for, but I have to think that Telltale made the right compromises in striking a balance between rich media and story-telling when making this title. After all Telltale has been doing this for how long?

Peace,
-TJ

[ScreamingFalcon]

From what I have seen, TellTale was going for a comic book style look to the game. I have a friend who is a HUGE fan of the shows (mostly SVU) and she LOVES the art style used in the game.

Super awesometasic graphics do NOT always equal a great game. For example, people say Final Fantasy VII is the best game in the series (my personal favorite was FFVI), but the graphics look terrible in comparison to Final Fantasy XIII, yet people still love VII. Why? It isn't because of the fanboys, rabid though they may be, it is because it was an awesome overall experience that still stands up today. Same goes for my personal favorite. The graphics are only a small part of the experience and should only factor into a review or opinion of a game for about 10-15% of the factoring about how "good" a game is. Taking that into account, these games are great because they are alot of fun and engaging to play and will likely be a future classic to come.

[yoman45135]

Super awesometasic graphics do NOT always equal a great game. For example, people say Final Fantasy VII is the best game in the series (my personal favorite was FFVI), but the graphics look terrible in comparison to Final Fantasy XIII, yet people still love VII. Why? It isn't because of the fanboys, rabid though they may be, it is because it was an awesome overall experience that still stands up today. Same goes for my personal favorite. The graphics are only a small part of the experience and should only factor into a review or opinion of a game for about 10-15% of the factoring about how "good" a game is. Taking that into account, these games are great because they are alot of fun and engaging to play and will likely be a future classic to come.

Well we never said we wanted next-gen close to real life graphics, just something which does not look cheap anyway telltale are perfectly capable of using good graphics, now in Law & Orders case im not going to comment but if anyone says the bttf art style was perfect I will strongly disagree.

Also I will repeat I dont have some sort of illness which makes me really hate cartoon graphics like everyone is trying to imply in fact my favourite games have either cartoony or bad graphics, it is just a fact they are not movie based games so they dont need to look right in a certain sense.

[LikaLaruku]

I find the character designs very unsettling. The same Uncanny Valley feel I get with LA Noir, Mass Effect 3, Japanese robots, Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings, & that Felix the Cat movie. Motion capture & rotoscoping give me the proverbial jibblies for no reason at all.