Limited Choices discussion (merged threads)

[thestalkinghead]

The biggest problem about choices in video games is pretty easily shown with a little math.

In episode 1 and 2:
Say there were 10 choices with 2 possible outcomes(PO) that had a full game impact (i.e. safe Carley/Doug), 4 choices with 3 possible outcomes and 2 choices with even 4 possible outcomes just so we make sure pretty much everyone has a total unique experience.

Telltale would now already have to deal with 1.024 impact choices just from 2 PO choices (10^2).

Now come the 3 PO choices and these already have a real impact. They will rise the possible outcomes to 82.944, and adding the 4 PO choices will give Telltale the final number of 1.327.104 possible outcomes and game scenes to deal with, while still staying on track to keep the story together.

Even keeping it really civil, say we choose 4 choices with 2 PO and 2 with 3 PO, we still end up with 144 outcomes, game scenes, conversations and what not.

For now, this is an impossible task as most people should be able to understand.

I think Telltale closely watches what most players do and tailors the story around these choices, and that is how their statement should be understood.

its not an impossible task and not every choice will affect every other choice, and obviously there will be some things that they would always make us do, but what would have been so hard about giving doug or carley their own mission and making it so they have there own death not just identical copies. the fact is telltale make the world that Lee is in so they can easily give us choices that avoid interacting with other choices we could make.

and even if that means its is similar to making 3-4 games, thats fine because i have seen adventure games with way more scenes way more characters and not a bigger budget, why cant i have a choice of going north or south and then from that point have a very different story to the other choice, they could still meet up again but as long as there were some lasting affects of the choices you make it would make the choices matter.

[Rodia]

The biggest problem about choices in video games is pretty easily shown with a little math.

In episode 1 and 2:
Say there were 10 choices with 2 possible outcomes(PO) that had a full game impact (i.e. safe Carley/Doug), 4 choices with 3 possible outcomes and 2 choices with even 4 possible outcomes just so we make sure pretty much everyone has a total unique experience.

Telltale would now already have to deal with 1.024 impact choices just from 2 PO choices (10^2).

Now come the 3 PO choices and these already have a real impact. They will rise the possible outcomes to 82.944, and adding the 4 PO choices will give Telltale the final number of 1.327.104 possible outcomes and game scenes to deal with, while still staying on track to keep the story together.

Even keeping it really civil, say we choose 4 choices with 2 PO and 2 with 3 PO, we still end up with 144 outcomes, game scenes, conversations and what not.

For now, this is an impossible task as most people should be able to understand.

I think Telltale closely watches what most players do and tailors the story around these choices, and that is how their statement should be understood.

QFT

Seriously, you're spot on, man. It's too fantastical for us to ask for a story with so many variables. I agree, it sucks to look past the illusion of freedom, but it just can't happen.

[8Bit_System]

@8bit system: Stop exagerating please... Nobody ask for such thing ^^!
I (and other i suppose) don't ask for such numerous outcome, look at my precedent post: i just ask to decide ONE time who live and who die and see consequences and outcomes until the end. None choice impact anything in the STORY. What we see in Playing Dead ? What we see when we launch the game ?

Story will be tailored by our choice.

So are we asking for the impossible ? Tellatale made the choice to say that but i can't see it anywhere in the game. What choice change anything ? (beside clem hoodie, which is just a graphical change) So our feedback is unjustified ?
I'm not so sure about that. Telltale do the little extras for your choices, that definitely alter the storyline, not the global story, but the personal relations. Something The Walking Dead was always about.

Also, I am pretty sure that Telltale uses the recorded choices not to look at them and compare their boners on who's idea was best, but to "read" the players and react accordingly in future episodes. So by my definition, they tailor the story by our choice. ;)

Omg I love this extremist... You make it sounds like middle way doesnt exist.
It's not extremist in the least bit. I was only giving numbers and I bet there are quite a few people out there that are not aware how fast numbers sum up, reading some of the posts on this forum.

As you can see, the civil way is the least a lot of guys are asking for... still a huge amount of work, if at all possible.

In my oppinion Telltale delivers very well. Of course I would wish for some more freedom here and there, but I also knew what to expect.

[malcom155]

@8Bit System and Rodia: So if i understand correctly we are asking too much ^^?
But in this case why they said we can impact the story with our choice ? Now we see the reality and our feedback are asking why. And Tellatalle can't take our stats for tailoring the game now, the last episode in already in production so this argument is invalid...

So, before it was the "welcome in TWD world, everyone die", now we have a "don't ask for the impossible". I don't ask for the impossible, i ask for what i was advertised multiple times... Nothing more but also nothing less.
Thanks for reading

Edit: i may ask a lot but can we have an advice by a team member of Tellatale ? Just to know what they mean by "tailored by the players choices"and what to expect now.

[8Bit_System]

its not an impossible task and not every choice will affect every other choice, and obviously there will be some things that they would always make us do, but what would have been so hard about giving doug or carley their own mission and making it so they have there own death not just identical copies. the fact is telltale make the world that Lee is in so they can easily give us choices that avoid interacting with other choices we could make.
Well, in my example the choices DO affect each other, as that is what many people cried for.

Choosing A will take you on a different path then choosing B, both scenes will now have totally independent new choices.

I totally agree with you on Doug's and Carley's death scenes and probably to a lot more of criticism that is around on these forums, but that was not the point of my post, I just explained something many guys around don't seem to get.

and even if that means its is similar to making 3-4 games, thats fine because i have seen adventure games with way more scenes way more characters and not a bigger budget, why cant i have a choice of going north or south and then from that point have a very different story to the other choice, they could still meet up again but as long as there were some lasting affects of the choices you make it would make the choices matter.
More scenes, more characters, yes. On the other hand there are very few with better, or even equally good storytelling around.

How many adventure (or in fact any) games would you come up with that deliver the "north/south" choice? I can't really think of any right now.

[Funatick]

I'm not so sure about that. Telltale do the little extras for your choices, that definitely alter the storyline, not the global story, but the personal relations. Something The Walking Dead was always about.

Also, I am pretty sure that Telltale uses the recorded choices not to look at them and compare their boners on who's idea was best, but to "read" the players and react accordingly in future episodes. So by my definition, they tailor the story by our choice. ;)


It's not extremist in the least bit. I was only giving numbers and I bet there are quite a few people out there that are not aware how fast numbers sum up, reading some of the posts on this forum.

As you can see, the civil way is the least a lot of guys are asking for... still a huge amount of work, if at all possible.

In my oppinion Telltale delivers very well. Of course I would wish for some more freedom here and there, but I also knew what to expect.

I know your number was right if you wanna make every choice impacting story but its probably too much. Still there are way to keep it nonlinear but ofcourse it will need more work invest in it... At least 2 storyline per ep would be great but it also have to been think out before start.

[thestalkinghead]

How many adventure (or in fact any) games would you come up with that deliver the "north/south" choice? I can't really think of any right now.

well that depends, but does it matter?, i didn't know a game had to be a copy of another game else it couldn't be done

[8Bit_System]

@8Bit System and Rodia: So if i understand correctly we are asking too much ^^?
But in this case why they said we can impact the story with our choice ? Now we see the reality and our feedback are asking why. And Tellatalle can't take our stats for tailoring the game now, the last episode in already in production so this argument is invalid...
They can use the stats, in production does not mean finished. If it was finished you would be playing it right now.

Also, it was never intended to tell you or anyone off, or telling you that you are wrong about every complaint. It is JUST a post to show some people why certain things are not possible, and maybe, just maybe someone will alter his views slightly, and if not... so what?! ;)

well that depends, but does it matter?, i didn't know a game had to be a copy of another game else it couldn't be done
:confused:

[Funatick]

How many adventure (or in fact any) games would you come up with that deliver the "north/south" choice? I can't really think of any right now.

If we dont talk about sandbox and freedom games. Original war just come in my mind...

[Sandmole]

The biggest problem about choices in video games is pretty easily shown with a little math.

In episode 1 and 2:
Say there were 10 choices with 2 possible outcomes(PO) that had a full game impact (i.e. safe Carley/Doug), 4 choices with 3 possible outcomes and 2 choices with even 4 possible outcomes just so we make sure pretty much everyone has a total unique experience.

Telltale would now already have to deal with 1.024 impact choices just from 2 PO choices (10^2).

Now come the 3 PO choices and these already have a real impact. They will rise the possible outcomes to 82.944, and adding the 4 PO choices will give Telltale the final number of 1.327.104 possible outcomes and game scenes to deal with, while still staying on track to keep the story together.

Even keeping it really civil, say we choose 4 choices with 2 PO and 2 with 3 PO, we still end up with 144 outcomes, game scenes, conversations and what not.

For now, this is an impossible task as most people should be able to understand.

I think Telltale closely watches what most players do and tailors the story around these choices, and that is how their statement should be understood.

You'd be right if these consequences rippled throughout the whole game, but that's not what people are disappointed by.

Here's an example of something that wouldn't require a lot of change, but would add that extra touch that's currently missing. At the beginning of episode 2, you're faced with the decision to cut off the foot of the band director, David. If you don't, Travis, the other student, freaks out and winds up getting shot. He dies on the operating table, so to speak, and serves as a lesson to the group about the reality of infection.

If you do save David, Travis is rather clumsily dispatched from a writing perspective by inexplicably tripping and being devoured. This immediately synchronizes the outcomes of your choice, creating a symmetrical gameplay experience that's easier to write, but less meaningful to the players.

A nice touch that probably wouldn't have added a ton to development time or cost would have been to have Travis survive if you cut David free, and join you on the trip to the farm with Ben. At that point, he would join you and Mark as you clear off the zombies from the fence, but is killed by the first volley of arrows from the bandits. He then becomes one of the zombies chasing you during the tractor escape scene.

In this scenario, there doesn't have to much more in the way of dialogue added to the game, and though there's a bit more character modeling, the asymmetry of experience does add quite a bit of variety to my playthrough compared with someone else. And there's no fundamental change in the story.

TTG does this in minor ways throughout the game, but usually the effects of a decision are immediately played out and then synchronized within the same scene. Many of us would like to see a bit more. You want us to wind up with the same end state for a particular decision? Okay, but let our choices dictate a more varied route to arrive there. Right now, there just aren't enough routes.

[malcom155]

Well, in my example the choices DO affect each other, as that is what many people cried for.

Not it this thread... The feedback is focused on the fact that NONE of the choices impact (or tailor if you want) anything in the STORY. It's slightly different...
The game was selled like (and i'd worked for a video game company before) a choice based story (or the old "you are the hero" books if you prefer). I was not expecting TWD to be like an AAA game, just a cool game based on a franchise I like wich I can influence the story a little.

But in fact, no matter what you do, you have zero impact and it was not the game i was advertised. ^^

Edit: i have never said the fourth was finished, just the 5th is already in prod, again, it's slighty different...

[Sentient Orange]

This game is extremely light on gameplay. A few quicktime events and some clicking get you through the zombie encounters. The puzzles are extremely simple and require almost no problem solving ability. The only thing that was left to make this game different or endearing was the potential of the choice system which turned out to be just cosmetic.

This, this, this and this.

The game doesn't have anything going for it in regards to the gameplay, so it heavily relies on having a good storyline and being very interactive.

If the choices aren't supposed to be that important, then why was this advertised as one of the main parts of the game?

The point that telltale had been making with the entire game was the fact that it was supposed to have choices. If somebody's talking a lot about a particular feature of a game, does that not make you think that this feature of the game should be important?


How many times can i find the "choices" feature being mentioned?
Hmm.

-Once clearly at the start of every episode, which would mean a total of 5 times.

-At least once quite clearly on the main website.

-Twice on the steam page. Under KEY FEATURES.

"A tailored game experience – Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode. Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."

"You’ll be forced to make decisions that are not only difficult, but that will require you to make an almost immediate choice. There’s no time to ponder when the undead are pounding the door down!"

"Features meaningful decision-making, exploration, problem solving and a constant fight for survival in a world overrun by the undead"

The way the choices are described as being "tailored" also sounds more specific to me than just "the choices you make may affect how the game plays"

If they hadn't heavily advertised the game as such, then this wouldn't be as much of a problem, if one at all.


I'm also not saying that this is a TERRIBLE game. Like i said yesterday in another thread, the problem is the same as duke nukem forever. The last 2 episodes raised the bar, that and with the delayed release, the 3rd episode just didn't live up to it.

Heavy rain, although made by AAA developers, did the choices well. People were lead to believe that TWD would be doing something similar with its game mechanics. The difference is, TWD only has choices that are about as game changing as resident evil 3's (1999) (a game which didn't even advertise the choices as it's main feature) and not anything close to heavy rain's (2010, even that was made over 2 years ago now)


Oh, and i don't think that ANYBODY was seriously expecting telltale to do the impossible and have something like over 10 different endings. That's just insane and not even heavy rain had that many endings. I think that EVERYBODY would be happy if this game had even 2 different endings or just 2 different major changes through the whole game (and not just a change that looked like it was going to be a major change only for it to merge with the other choice halfway through the game)

[SupahFly]

@8Bit_System Math has nothing to do with the whole thing, you can observe it of course from that point of view just to prove that "it is not possible" but if TellTale are smart enough (which I actually believe in) they would have divided the story in two streams without applying math. Just collect choices in two groups with some kind of logic and algorithm or I don't know what and divide the story in two streams. We don't want thousands of outcomes, we just want to see that we can influence something else than someone to tell me that I'm an asshole because I've chosen to be rude with him instead of telling him the truth. I have zero motivation of replaying the previous two episodes again and why? Because of course I can see different cut scenes and different reactions. But for what? Just to end there where I will end anyway? What's the point of making decisions when you know that everything will happen anyway? Isn't that a little bit demotivating?

[Ja1862]

well that depends, but does it matter?, i didn't know a game had to be a copy of another game else it couldn't be done

Exactly even if it did a Heavy rain choice method it would be more then what we have now...

[8Bit_System]

You'd be right if these consequences rippled throughout the whole game, but that's not what people are disappointed by.

Here's an example of something that wouldn't require a lot of change, but would add that extra touch that's currently missing. At the beginning of episode 2, you're faced with the decision to cut off the foot of the band director, David. If you don't, Travis, the other student, freaks out and winds up getting shot. He dies on the operating table, so to speak, and serves as a lesson to the group about the reality of infection.

If you do save David, Travis is rather clumsily dispatched from a writing perspective by inexplicably tripping and being devoured. This immediately synchronizes the outcomes of your choice, creating a symmetrical gameplay experience that's easier to write, but less meaningful to the players.

A nice touch that probably wouldn't have added a ton to development time or cost would have been to have Travis survive if you cut David free, and join you on the trip to the farm with Ben. At that point, he would join you and Mark as you clear off the zombies from the fence, but is killed by the first volley of arrows from the bandits. He then becomes one of the zombies chasing you during the tractor escape scene.

In this scenario, there doesn't have to much more in the way of dialogue added to the game, and though there's a bit more character modeling, the asymmetry of experience does add quite a bit of variety to my playthrough compared with someone else. And there's no fundamental change in the story.

TTG does this in minor ways throughout the game, but usually the effects of a decision are immediately played out and then synchronized within the same scene. Many of us would like to see a bit more. You want us to wind up with the same end state for a particular decision? Okay, but let our choices dictate a more varied route to arrive there. Right now, there's aren't enough routes.
Your statement is pretty much what I wanted to achieve with my first post. Well thought through and well explained... also a really constructive criticism for Telltale. I would absolutly sign your idea! :)

If we dont talk about sandbox and freedom games. Original war just come in my mind...
That is legit of course, it is a lot easier to do in a RTS game though, as you "just" throw the player on a different map (if at all) and alter the missions.

[Rodia]

@8Bit System and Rodia: So if i understand correctly we are asking too much ^^?
But in this case why they said we can impact the story with our choice ? Now we see the reality and our feedback are asking why. And Tellatalle can't take our stats for tailoring the game now, the last episode in already in production so this argument is invalid...

So, before it was the "welcome in TWD world, everyone die", now we have a "don't ask for the impossible". I don't ask for the impossible, i ask for what i was advertised multiple times... Nothing more but also nothing less.
Thanks for reading

Edit: i may ask a lot but can we have an advice by a team member of Tellatale ? Just to know what they mean by "tailored by the players choices"and what to expect now.


It's called "Advertisement". Just try not to go "Mass Effect 3 Ending raging fan" and file a lawsuit on TTGs for this.. I'm already ashamed of humanity as it is..

[skepticalguy90]

It's called "Advertisement". Just try not to go "Mass Effect 3 Ending raging fan" and file a lawsuit on TTGs for this.. I'm already ashamed of humanity as it is..

False advertisement, me thinks.

[Ja1862]

I've noticed the replies you get from most defenders is either "Don't be mad bro just because a character you liked died", or "it would be impossible for that much story branching".

The first group of people just don't seem even bother reading peoples complaints, refuse to believe people dislike their precious game and act like the only reason for complaints are character deaths being "to emotional for the gamer" lol.

The second group of people seem to be blind to all the times Telltale spoke about how choice will change each players game, how different each of are playthrough's will be or just pretend it was never stated.

Logical discussions are hard to be had on this board... fanboys be going mad.

[Funatick]

That is legit of course, it is a lot easier to do in a RTS game though, as you "just" throw the player on a different map (if at all) and alter the missions.

yeah you are probably right but original war is out already some years and also the characters you saved in one mission did continue with you to next mission. And the game had 4 endings. Its mostly just example...

[8Bit_System]

@8Bit_System Math has nothing to do with the whole thing, you can observe it of course from that point of view just to prove that "it is not possible" but if TellTale are smart enough (which I actually believe in) they would have divided the story in two streams without applying math. Just collect choices in two groups with some kind of logic and algorithm or I don't know what and divide the story in two streams. We don't want thousands of outcomes, we just want to see that we can influence something else than someone to tell me that I'm an asshole because I've chosen to be rude with him instead of telling him the truth. I have zero motivation of replaying the previous two episodes again and why? Because of course I can see different cut scenes and different reactions. But for what? Just to end there where I will end anyway? What's the point of making decisions when you know that everything will happen anyway? Isn't that a little bit demotivating?
Yes, it is demotivating. Still, we are talking about a $25 game here. We are not talking Heavy Rain (which I sadly could only watch on Youtube as there's no PS3 around), that has been in development for four years and cost around $60-70 when it came out.

[malcom155]

@rodia : I invite you to read the good post of sentient orange (second off the page). You will see what i mean by advertissment ^^.
Edit: and i have a brain lol i will not make lawsuit ^^, but i don't think i will make a good critic of the tellatale products nor advise to purchase their products, bad mouth to ears is bad.

PS: i think it's a great discussion here, at last civil, calm and construcive. COOOOL !! ^^ (malcom thinks you are awesome lol)

[SupahFly]

Yes, it is demotivating. Still, we are talking about a $25 game here. We are not talking Heavy Rain (which I sadly could only watch on Youtube as there's no PS3 around), that has been in development for four years and cost around $60-70 when it came out.

But they could have made it with two outcomes which are not that different. Just leave in both of them some element which is a little bit more significant for the story than the hoody of Clem. And that element to be based on the decisions which you've made. Because at this point there isn't such an element.

[bazenji]

Heavy Rain doesn't have a lot of alternate paths. And only two main characters can die. It does give the illusion of multiple paths, though.

[TheWildcard]

Yes, it is demotivating. Still, we are talking about a $25 game here. We are not talking Heavy Rain (which I sadly could only watch on Youtube as there's no PS3 around), that has been in development for four years and cost around $60-70 when it came out.

25 dollar game or not they claimed to a lot of things that they never delivered on. The price we pay does not matter its all about what they promised us at purchase.

[8Bit_System]

yeah you are probably right but original war is out already some years and also the characters you saved in one mission did continue with you to next mission. And the game had 4 endings. Its mostly just example...
I just googled it, looks like a neat game. I wasn't trying to talk it down at all. :)

False advertisement, me thinks.
You buy false advertisement every day.

Food that says: "No preservatives" is usually packed with them, they just use stuff that doesn't have to be declared yet.

Cream is skimmed because the industry decided the customer doesn't want the creamy rim anymore. Stupid thing is, now you can't whip it anymore... oh wait... we have carrageenan, a chemical substance that helps us here... not healthy at all. Did anyone ever tell you about that on the ads?

People don't care what they eat, but go crazy about a game ad? Please...

[Funatick]

You buy false advertisement every day.

Food that says: "No preservatives" is usually packed with them, they just use stuff that doesn't have to be declared yet.

Cream is skimmed because the industry decided the customer doesn't want the creamy rim anymore. Stupid thing is, now you can't whip it anymore... oh wait... we have carrageenan, a chemical substance that helps us here... not healthy at all. Did anyone ever tell you about that on the ads?

People don't care what they eat, but go crazy about a game ad? Please...

+ 1

Maybe we just wrongly understood TTG maybe they thought that choice is about you will become hater or liker and after its true it will change outcome of whole season:D

[8Bit_System]

25 dollar game or not they claimed to a lot of things that they never delivered on. The price we pay does not matter its all about what they promised us at purchase.
I really can't help you out here, don't preorder something if you're not sure what you are getting. Wait for the game to come out, take a read, take a look, and then decide.

I'm waiting for WarZ right now, but I will probably not preorder as I am just not sure how it will turn out, and what the playerbase will be like.

If I don't like it when I've taken a closer look, I will not buy it... simple thing.

Maybe we just wrongly understood TTG maybe they thought that choice is about you will become hater or liker and after its true it will change outcome of whole season:D
:D :D :D

[thestalkinghead]

I just googled it, looks like a neat game. I wasn't trying to talk it down at all. :)


You buy false advertisement every day.

Food that says: "No preservatives" is usually packed with them, they just use stuff that doesn't have to be declared yet.

Cream is skimmed because the industry decided the customer doesn't want the creamy rim anymore. Stupid thing is, now you can't whip it anymore... oh wait... we have carrageenan, a chemical substance that helps us here... not healthy at all. Did anyone ever tell you about that on the ads?

People don't care what they eat, but go crazy about a game ad? Please...

if they had advertised it as "TWD game an interactive story based on TWD comic"

but had not said that it was tailored by your game play and that choices matter, i would not have expected any more than an interactive story

[Seath]

So we should just shut up and quit complaining in the company's forums, that we didn't got that what they promised and we paid for?

Fact is that this game is extreme light on gameplay like mentioned, and only excels in storytelling and the supposed changing story.
If you chop one of the main features off, then what is left?

[Red Panda]

Apparently the "no choices" camp hasn't seen the Team Lilly vs. Team Kenny thread.

[thestalkinghead]

Apparently the "no choices" camp hasn't seen the Team Lilly vs. Team Kenny thread.

what the difference in between being either team kenny or team lilly?

[8Bit_System]

So we should just shut up and quit complaining in the company's forums, that we didn't got that what they promised and we paid for?
No, you should never stop whining. It's a great thing to do, as long as some constructive criticism comes along. Just saying how bad and stupid everything is, where it is not, would be plain stupid. At least we are far from the BSN standards. :D

[malcom155]

@red panda: the subject of this discussion is not the character but choices and impacts in the STORY of the game. Not the dialogues or little event. STORY, no matter which side you are, results are always the same at the end of the chapter 3, you have the same characters living, the same dead. No difference.

And i don't have the courage to read the thread ^^

Edit:
@ 8 bit system: i agree with you, this board is largely better than the BSN

[Funatick]

No, you should never stop whining. It's a great thing to do, as long as some constructive criticism comes along. Just saying how bad and stupid everything is, where it is not, would be plain stupid. At least we are far from the BSN standards. :D

I love this:
You should never stop whining. It's a great thing to do, as long as some constructive criticism comes along.:)

[TheWildcard]

I really can't help you out here, don't preorder something if you're not sure what you are getting. Wait for the game to come out, take a read, take a look, and then decide.

I hear you, but its not like 25 dollars broke me. I just don't feel like sitting back and saying nothing while the company does not deliver what was promised. Saying nothing is what makes these companies think they can do it.

[YamiRaziel]

what the difference in between being either team kenny or team lilly?

You should know, you posted there. We not only experienced the story in different ways but even the logic behind our choices feels different. It's like everybody has his own adventure and his logic looks sound to him but it doesn't to the rest.
If that's not an example as to why the choices matter, I don't know what then.

[8Bit_System]

I hear you, but its not like 25 dollars broke me. I just don't feel like sitting back and saying nothing while the company does not deliver what was promised. Saying nothing is what makes these companies think they can do it.
But isn't this comment far more helpful than just saying "false advertisement"?

I think you are right by the way! :)

You should know, you posted there. We not only experienced the story in different ways but even the logic behind our choices feels different. It's like everybody has his own adventure and his logic looks sound to him but it doesn't to the rest.
If that's not an example as to why the choices matter, I don't know what then.
So true!

I used to be a Lilly fan, then she shot someone... now I think it's time for Lee to step up. No fandom anymore. :)

[thestalkinghead]

You should know, you posted there. We not only experienced the story in different ways but even the logic behind our choices feels different. It's like everybody has his own adventure and his logic looks sound to him but it doesn't to the rest.
If that's not an example as to why the choices matter, I don't know what then.

but the thing is i am playing a character with the super power to retry things if he dies, the ability to go back in time and redo things and also predict the future.

plus i only picked sides because i believed there would be consequences

[malcom155]

@ yami raziel: okay... Explain me what is the difference at the end of the third chapter between the teams ? What difference in the survivors who are ith you ? How your choices tailored the story ? (idon't speak of dialogue but the STORY ^^)

The results are always the sames, Lilly go away, Carley/Doug die, Katjaa and Duck die. So what's your point ?

And to finish, i've two saves, one for each camp and i don't see any difference between the saves at the end... I don't want to make a fanfic, i don't want to explain my choices, i just want to see them tailor the STORY.

Edit: could you explain why (it will be impossible in the game for obvious reason) why lilly go without you i you want to go with her ? Yes you can with headcannon. We are not here to do that, we are here to speak of choices, impact and consequences. Cordially

[SupahFly]

You should know, you posted there. We not only experienced the story in different ways but even the logic behind our choices feels different. It's like everybody has his own adventure and his logic looks sound to him but it doesn't to the rest.
If that's not an example as to why the choices matter, I don't know what then.

Good that someone is happy with the the whole "freedom" of the game, I wouldn't even bother to discuss with someone some decisions during the game when they are completely meaningless. Otherwise I would have done it as well but too bad it's not the case.

[Sandmole]

@ yami raziel: okay... Explain me what is the difference at the end of the third chapter between the teams ? What difference in the survivors who are ith you ? How your choices tailored the story ? (idon't speak of dialogue but the STORY ^^)

The results are always the sames, Lilly go away, Carley/Doug die, Katjaa and Duck die. So what's your point ?

And to finish, i've two saves, one for each camp and i don't see any difference between the saves at the end... I don't want to make a fanfic, i don't want to explain my choices, i just want to see them tailor the STORY.

Edit: could you explain why (it will be impossible in the game for obvious reason) why lilly go without you i you want to go with her ? Yes you can with headcannon. We are not here to do that, we are here to speak of choices, impact and consequences. Cordially

I definitely agree that the impacts of our decisions were oversold. I'm definitely on your side of the fence when it comes to the debate here. If I give TTG the benefit of the the doubt on the issue, there's still the possibility that who we sided with will have an impact in the remaining episodes--not because Lilly is around, but because siding with Lilly meant spurning Kenny. Again, this is a large stretch trying to be as generous as possible to the writers, and we'll have to wait to be certain, but if the direction of episode 3 is any indication, there's not a lot to hold out for.

[8Bit_System]

but the thing is i am playing a character with the super power to retry things if he dies, the ability to go back in time and redo things and also predict the future.
Interesting. My character has no rewind, what I decide, be it bad and stupid or unbelievably smart is cannon to my playthrough.

[Funatick]

Does any1 know some info about choice matters in ep 4? I still dont know what to expect from it...

[thestalkinghead]

Interesting. My character has no rewind, what I decide, be it bad and stupid or unbelievably smart is cannon to my playthrough.

yeah i have a save i wont change, but for my others, and future plays, its the super power that every player character in a game has, and people that make games should/do know this

[YamiRaziel]

@ yami raziel: okay... Explain me what is the difference at the end of the third chapter between the teams ? What difference in the survivors who are ith you ? How your choices tailored the story ? (idon't speak of dialogue but the STORY ^^)

The results are always the sames, Lilly go away, Carley/Doug die, Katjaa and Duck die. So what's your point ?

And to finish, i've two saves, one for each camp and i don't see any difference between the saves at the end... I don't want to make a fanfic, i don't want to explain my choices, i just want to see them tailor the STORY.

Edit: could you explain why (it will be impossible in the game for obvious reason) why lilly go without you i you want to go with her ? Yes you can with headcannon. We are not here to do that, we are here to speak of choices, impact and consequences. Cordially

Go to my Lilly appreciation thread. I've explained there somewhere why I feel she left me although I wanted to go with her.
The difference is how I feel about the characters. I still support Lilly and although I understand why she had to leave me. I still dislike Kenny because of the things he has done in my playthrough. That will define how I react towards him in ep 4 and 5.
If it was so easy for one guy to influence others and impact his own story then I guess we would be doing it in real life too.

The results are always the sames, Lilly go away, Carley/Doug die, Katjaa and Duck die. So what's your point ?
You know.. they will all probably die in the end. What's the point of playing then?
You, pal, are not looking for choices that affect the story, you're looking for RESULTS. That is something entirely different.

[thestalkinghead]

Go to my Lilly appreciation thread. I've explained there somewhere why I feel she left me although I wanted to go with her.
The difference is how I feel about the characters. I still support Lilly and although I understand why she had to leave me. I still dislike Kenny because of the things he has done in my playthrough. That will define how I react towards him in ep 4 and 5.
If it was so easy for one guy to influence others and impact his own story then I guess we would be doing it in real life too.


You know.. they will all probably die in the end. What's the point of playing then?
You, pal, are not looking for choices that affect the story, you're looking for RESULTS. That is something entirely different.

games are better than real life :)

[malcom155]

@yamiraziel: oki, i'll repeat, it seem necessary: i'm not here to headcannon, i 'm not here to write a (perhaps) fascinating story on a character psychology, i'm here to play and i can't see any results of any choice, no consequences. in the third episode, i can't change anything, not even the simplest thing.

Yes i'm looking for results because when i play a game where my choices tailor the STORY (note: this is the important word here) ilook at the results, not oneor two dialogue or cutscenes (for that we have already ME lol) look at all the saves: there are the same now. The characters's death are not the point here, yeah i know "welcome to TWD world" yadayadayada.

What are the differences between your saves: NONE (at last, none we can see). You can't change ANYTHING on the third chapter, the story is great, i can say it was not, but it was not an interactive story, no; it was a comic, nothing more and you can't do anything to change a comic when you read it. In fact i don't care why Lilly leave the group, she leave, no matter what i do, what i say. It's that point the main problem and you have the same problem with all the points of the chapter.

And your question summarize all this topic:

What's the point to playing now ? And you don't answers to my question :
The results are always the sames, Lilly go away, Carley/Doug die, Katjaa and Duck die. So what's your point ?

[Funatick]

@yamiraziel: oki, i'll repeat, it seem necessary: i'm not here to headcannon, i 'm not here to write a (perhaps) fascinating story on a character psychology, i'm here to play and i can't see any results of any choice, no consequences. in the third episode, i can't change anything, not even the simplest thing.


I would say lets just wait for ep4, there are still some choices which could have impact on story and it still could be amazing:) Or they will just only probably kill it totaly:D

[YamiRaziel]

@yamiraziel: oki, i'll repeat, it seem necessary: i'm not here to headcannon, i 'm not here to write a (perhaps) fascinating story on a character psychology, i'm here to play and i can't see any results of any choice, no consequences. in the third episode, i can't change anything, not even the simplest thing.

Yes i'm looking for results because when i play a game where my choices tailor the STORY (note: this is the important word here) ilook at the results, not oneor two dialogue or cutscenes (for that we have already ME lol) look at all the saves: there are the same now. The characters's death are not the point here, yeah i know "welcome to TWD world" yadayadayada.

What are the differences between your saves: NONE (at last, none we can see). You can't change ANYTHING on the third chapter, the story is great, i can say it was not, but it was not an interactive story, no; it was a comic, nothing more and you can't do anything to change a comic when you read it. In fact i don't care why Lilly leave the group, she leave, no matter what i do, what i say. It's that point the main problem and you have the same problem with all the points of the chapter.

And your question summarize all this topic:

What's the point to playing now ? And you don't answers to my question :
The results are always the sames, Lilly go away, Carley/Doug die, Katjaa and Duck die. So what's your point ?

I'm sorry you feel that way. I couldn't care less about results. I can see the results in all the other games I play. I fight evil, I defeat it and I'm victorious. It's funny and unrealistic.
I'm very fond of the way the stories in TWD unfold because they are really mimetic of the real life. You can't always control everything, you can't solve every problem. It allows for psychological profiling of the characters because they are deeply established and motivated by their own demeanour. I really like Lilly's and Kenny's characters. Even though I dislike Kenny's personality his character is written so well that it fascinates me. I did some predictions of how he is going to behave back when we were discussing ep.2 and for the most parts I was right. Lilly was always a difficult character to read and I might have been able to predict that she would snap, had I not been so fond of her. I knew she would do something extreme, I just didn't want her to. If I was given the chance to decide how the story unfolded I would've run with Lilly or made her stay. Even though I would've liked to do that it wouldn't be better and more realistic than what she did. To me Telltale know exactly how much power Lee needs to have.
I'm sorry to all Carley fans but I will go as to say that the most useful thing she ever did was die and shock me. She wasn't interesting anymore, she was minor character with not much of a story. I'm sure that if given the chance most would save her and have their dreamed romance with her.. but would it really be better? I don't think it would've been.

The Walking Dead franchise has always been a way of showing character's inner world and the relationships they build in extreme environment. This game has always been about the decisions and how they affect the people around you, not the result.

[Red Panda]

As much as I love to read walls of text, can I ask a question to those that think choice doesn't matter?

What would the game look like or how would the game play if choice did matter?

[corruptbiggins]

Just because the end is the same it doesn't mean that the story is also the same. Some changes are more subtle than others but there are still differences.

[Red Panda]

What makes people think they have free will and choices in life? The topic has been debated for over 2,000 years. It's not going to solved in this forum, with this game.

It could be argued people have more free will in the game than in real life.

[RMJ1984]

Basically to keep the illusion intact, dont replay the game, play it one time and accept the choices. When you replay it, the whole illusion feels apart imho :(

[kirby18]

I agree but you have to look at it from the development stand point. This isnt COD or FIFA where there is an annual release giving the respective teams a year plus to make the game.

This is a monthly game and tt is trying to make the decisions matter but they physically cant make everyones game so different where there is a different outcome. Hopefully, they pull a few strings in episode 5 since you dont have to worry about decisions carrying over but until then they HAVE to make your chocies marginal.

[YamiRaziel]

What makes people think they have free will and choices in life? The topic has been debated for over 2,000 years. It's not going to solved in this forum, with this game.

It could be argued people have more free will in the game than in real life.

I would say that sleeping with Carley, saving her from Lilly and killing the latter would probably satisfy most and give them the illusion their choices matter ;)

[thestalkinghead]

As much as I love to read walls of text, can I ask a question to those that think choice doesn't matter?

What would the game look like or how would the game play if choice did matter?

carley and doug would have some different game play and a different death for a start, there may be new locations based on choice, items or characters you can only get/meet by certain choices, if someone doesn't like you, you or someone else might get hurt, to make a choice on your ultimate goal, things like that

[Red Panda]

carley and doug would have some different game play and a different death for a start, there may be new locations based on choice, items or characters you can only get/meet by certain choices, if someone doesn't like you, you or someone else might get hurt, to make a choice on your ultimate goal, things like that

That's vague. Start small. How would Carley's death been different if you had choice as you define it?

[Sonic Boyster]

if they had advertised it as "TWD game an interactive story based on TWD comic"

but had not said that it was tailored by your game play and that choices matter, i would not have expected any more than an interactive story

Considering this is an adventure game crowd I expected a higher level of reading comprehension. What does everybody think "tailored" means? When you tailor a suit you don't swap it out with a T-shirt and shorts, you just trim it to fit you. If you play Lee one way you get a different experience than if you play him another way. If you save one character instead of another you get a more tailored experience. Tailored does not now imply, nor has it ever implied, that you get to make huge branching narrative decisions.

On the issue of 'meaningful' player choice you could throw the word meaningful around all day and not find two people who agree on what it means. It should also be considered that your save file still has every flag you tripped from episodes 1 through 3 and we've got two more to go where they can still play with your decisions, so prematurely assuming that nothing you've done to this point matters is self-defeating as well as unfounded. If what you wanted was a different game for every character you rescued you had unrealistic expectations, and since we've already discussed the widely misused word 'tailor' I'm not sure any of the advertising actually promised anything to that effect.

There are two major issues right here dragging a chunk of the community down on forums all over the internet right now. People are spending too much time looking behind the curtain trying to break the game down to its raw mechanics to justify their purchase, and people are obsessively discussing every possible outcome for every decision in the game. It's Mass Effect all over again and the game is only 3/5ths complete. A game like The Walking Dead isn't designed to be played 7 times to gorge ourselves on every ounce of content they pushed into the thing. Heavy Rain isn't designed that way either. These games are really convincing, personal experiences, when you play them in a vacuum. Even when the outcomes end up the same, unless somebody tells that to you, and/or you take it upon yourself to become upset with the gameplay decision to make it that way, you're going to have a tailored, awesome experience. As soon as you go digging up what the actual effects are for every decision you've immediately and irreversibly destroyed the game for yourself. This is true for heavy rain, this is true for mass effect, this is true for LA Noir, this is true for the Walking Dead, and this will continue to be true until the end of video game design as we know it. There aren't enough resources on the planet to make the video game that branches into a new video game every time you make every decision.




TL;DR-> The word 'tailored' does not mean what you think it means, obsessing on web forums about a game's programming is going to destroy that game for you every time. Enjoy the ride and don't get on the 'nothing worked out as promised' train until they actually finish the goddamn series.

[YamiRaziel]

carley and doug would have some different game play and a different death for a start, there may be new locations based on choice, items or characters you can only get/meet by certain choices, if someone doesn't like you, you or someone else might get hurt, to make a choice on your ultimate goal, things like that

You mean like a standard RPG where there's is a right and wrong choice based on that which reward is better?
When things are equally rewarded like Carley/Doug death, people complain.
When things are not equally rewarded like being pro-Lilly and having to stick with Kenny as opposed to being pro-Kenny and having to stick with Kenny, people complain again.
Even in real life people constantly complain of what's happening to them, of missed opportunities and unrewarding experiences...

Sonic Boyster, great post and welcome to the forums!

[thestalkinghead]

That's vague. Start small. How would Carley's death been different if you had choice as you define it?


i actually thought carleys death was really good, she was tough she was good with a gun, how else could she die, except a really shock ending, maybe doug could have died earlier or later, maybe on his own mission that he has because thats the kind of thing new characters should have


You mean like a standard RPG where there's is a right and wrong choice based on that which reward is better?
When things are equally rewarded like Carley/Doug death, people complain.
When things are not equally rewarded like being pro-Lilly and having to stick with Kenny as opposed to being pro-Kenny and having to stick with Kenny, people complain again.
Even in real life people constantly complain of what's happening to them, of missed opportunities and unrewarding experiences...

Sonic Boyster, great post and welcome to the forums!


i would like every choice to be equally as bad, but more different

[YamiRaziel]

i would like every choice to be equally as bad, but more different

You can give an example and I can try to identify where people like yourself would complain :p

[Red Panda]

i actually thought carleys death was really good, she was tough she was good with a gun, how else could she die, except a really shock ending, maybe doug could have died earlier or later, maybe on his own mission that he has because thats the kind of thing new characters should have

Okay, so if you had choice you would be able to control Doug and when he dies? Is that what you're saying?

[thestalkinghead]

You can give an example and I can try to identify where people like yourself would complain :p

:) well, depending on who you choose to save, you speak to them and they tell you about some supplies they spotted and that we should go and get them, you could maybe have different locations for each person or the same one.

but when we get to the place there is a locked door or some obstacle blocking the supplies.
doug would fix some wiring or something technology based and somehow a zombie would kill him but you get the supplies

carley may climb over the obstacle(or do whatever is in her location) or find another way, maybe be attacked by zombies but she shoots them and you get the supplies (later, lilly kills her)

[Sandmole]

That's vague. Start small. How would Carley's death been different if you had choice as you define it?

Here's a few examples that I've posted elsewhere:

Here's something that wouldn't require a lot of change, but would add that extra touch that's currently missing. At the beginning of episode 2, you're faced with the decision to cut off the foot of the band director, David. If you don't, Travis, the other student, freaks out and winds up getting shot. He dies on the operating table, so to speak, and serves as a lesson to the group about the reality of infection.

If you do save David, Travis is rather clumsily dispatched from a writing perspective by inexplicably tripping and being devoured. This immediately synchronizes the outcomes of your choice, creating a symmetrical gameplay experience that's easier to write, but less meaningful to the players.

A nice touch that probably wouldn't have added a ton to development time or cost would have been to have Travis survive if you cut David free, and join you on the trip to the farm with Ben. At that point, he would join you and Mark as you clear off the zombies from the fence, but is killed by the first volley of arrows from the bandits. He then becomes one of the zombies chasing you during the tractor escape scene.

Or if I decide to shoot the girl at the beginning of episode 3, for example, maybe that prevents me from getting any supplies in the pharmacy, instead resulting in a frantic escape through the back alleys of Macon from the undead. And if I don’t shoot, I can take my time in the pharmacy. No long term impact, other than a frustrated Lilly when we get back to the motel, but it’s a little fissure that spices up gameplay. This requires developing a few extra areas and quick time events, so maybe that is asking a lot, but it would definitely add to the asymmetry of the game without dramatically altering the story.

Another example: If I decide to help Kenny kill Larry, maybe he steps up to save me in the barn and kills Danny, eliminating that decision entirely. Some might argue that that robs the player of a key moral moment in Lee’s development, which I won’t deny; but I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. The stories we could tell about our experiences would be that much richer if some people were never confronted with that choice at all while others were. I’d certainly want to fire my game back up and see how the story plays out knowing I might be confronted with different choices in another play through. And for something like this there are minimal development costs and no changes to the story, but it adds a greater variety to our individual experiences. Something like Lilly coming to our aid in the final fight with Andy if we help her with her father, rather than her just watching us struggle on our own is a step in the right direction, albeit a very minimal one.

For Carley and Doug's deaths, change it up a bit. A nice touch would have been for Carley to have died at that point in episode 3 regardless, while in a Doug game to have Ben be killed instead (or maybe a choice between the two, dependent upon your actions). In a Doug game, I wouldn’t know that Ben was the traitor, and that would be fine—it’d be great, in fact, because that sort of asymmetry creates replay value and adds depth to my choices. From this point on, Ben and Doug could serve the story in a functionally synonymous way, outside of cosmetic dialogue differences, much like Carley and Doug do now This would probably result in a richer, more asymmetrical experience, and very likely without onerous additions to development cost and minimizing the impact on the overall direction of the story. Obviously it's hard to say how effective or easy this would be, given that we don't know what the writers have planned for Ben's role in the story, but something like this would be welcome.

[malcom155]

I would say that sleeping with Carley, saving her from Lilly and killing the latter would probably satisfy most and give them the illusion their choices matter ;)

with an answer like that, you can be a good member of the BSN.


I prefer to let it down... I'm not playing to dissert why i do my choices but to see what come with them, Sandmole make a very good point. Read his posts and you will see want a guy like me want; it's totally realistic, but making a post like the one i quote, i can respond only one thing: Don't feed the troll...
And if i look to the others one, with red panda's one, we 'll complain no matter what Tellatale do... It's not that and you will know this if you read the last pages of the topic.

The discussion was adult, civil, polite witout mockery.

@Sandmole: again a great post !

[YamiRaziel]

For Carley and Doug's deaths, change it up a bit. A nice touch would have been for Carley to have died at that point in episode 3 regardless, while in a Doug game to have Ben be killed instead (or maybe a choice between the two, dependent upon your actions). In a Doug game, I wouldn’t know that Ben was the traitor, and that would be fine—it’d be great, in fact, because that sort of asymmetry creates replay value and adds depth to my choices. From this point on, Ben and Doug could serve the story in a functionally synonymous way, outside of cosmetic dialogue differences, much like Carley and Doug do now This would probably result in a richer, more asymmetrical experience, and very likely without onerous additions to development cost and minimizing the impact on the overall direction of the story. Obviously it's hard to say how effective or easy this would be, given that we don't know what the writers have planned for Ben's role in the story, but something like this would be welcome.

I don't know what happened in your games but in mine, Lilly did help me with both brothers. The ultimate decision to finish them off or not was mine, but she did save my ass back there.

Regarding your Doug/Carley idea, I can already see the problem for most people that complain.
All the people that started this thread and keep saying that choices were irrelevant would start a new thread called "You said there were no right and wrong choices - you lied". In that thread they will be thoroughly explaining how saving Doug resulted in killing the traitor (they will know from the Carley saves) and this resulted in +1 member -> Doug
Those that saved Carley would feel that they're punished for their choice because Carley dies and Doug doesn't. They will be left with Ben whom they will hate because he killed their precious Carley.
That will start an entirely new trend of measuring choices and rewards which is something Telltale doesn't want at all. Choices should be done from a moral side, not because one will lead to one thing and the other to another thing. You do them because they feel right, not because that will prevent a member of the group to be killed.
Plus, this idea doesn't allow for equal development of Ben's story and faith and if they've planned something great it won't reach all the people.

There's absolutely no way that Telltale will manage to please everybody, not matter how hard they try.

malcom155, first of all I read replied to Sandmole's post.
Now you go and read Sonic Boyster's post.

[SupahFly]

I don't know what happened in your games but in mine, Lilly did help me with both brothers. The ultimate decision to finish them off or not was mine, but she did save my ass back there.

Regarding your Doug/Carley idea, I can already see the problem for most people that complain.
All the people that started this thread and keep saying that choices were irrelevant would start a new thread called "You said there were no right and wrong choices - you lied". In that thread they will be thoroughly explaining how saving Doug resulted in killing the traitor (they will know from the Carley saves) and this resulted in +1 member -> Doug
Those that saved Carley would feel that they're punished for their choice because Carley dies and Doug doesn't. They will be left with Ben whom they will hate because he killed their precious Carley.
That will start an entirely new trend of measuring choices and rewards which is something Telltale doesn't want at all. Choices should be done from a moral side, not because one will lead to one thing and the other to another thing. You do them because they feel right, not because that will prevent a member of the group to be killed.
Plus, this idea doesn't allow for equal development of Ben's story and faith and if they've planned something great it won't reach all the people.

There's absolutely no way that Telltale will manage to please everybody, not matter how hard they try.


I don't want to be pleased somehow or whatever. I want a single element, single, that is relevant for the story to be different at the end. I don't want from the game to make me feel somehow. If this is the goal of the game they should have written "The decisions u make affect the way u feel" not that they influence the story. Because they have zero impact on the outcome, zero. Not a SINGLE element is different at the end.

Edit : and by the way I don't have any problem with the death of Carley if that is your argument why ppl are whining about the choices.

[thestalkinghead]

Considering this is an adventure game crowd I expected a higher level of reading comprehension. What does everybody think "tailored" means? When you tailor a suit you don't swap it out with a T-shirt and shorts, you just trim it to fit you. If you play Lee one way you get a different experience than if you play him another way. If you save one character instead of another you get a more tailored experience. Tailored does not now imply, nor has it ever implied, that you get to make huge branching narrative decisions.

On the issue of 'meaningful' player choice you could throw the word meaningful around all day and not find two people who agree on what it means. It should also be considered that your save file still has every flag you tripped from episodes 1 through 3 and we've got two more to go where they can still play with your decisions, so prematurely assuming that nothing you've done to this point matters is self-defeating as well as unfounded. If what you wanted was a different game for every character you rescued you had unrealistic expectations, and since we've already discussed the widely misused word 'tailor' I'm not sure any of the advertising actually promised anything to that effect.

There are two major issues right here dragging a chunk of the community down on forums all over the internet right now. People are spending too much time looking behind the curtain trying to break the game down to its raw mechanics to justify their purchase, and people are obsessively discussing every possible outcome for every decision in the game. It's Mass Effect all over again and the game is only 3/5ths complete. A game like The Walking Dead isn't designed to be played 7 times to gorge ourselves on every ounce of content they pushed into the thing. Heavy Rain isn't designed that way either. These games are really convincing, personal experiences, when you play them in a vacuum. Even when the outcomes end up the same, unless somebody tells that to you, and/or you take it upon yourself to become upset with the gameplay decision to make it that way, you're going to have a tailored, awesome experience. As soon as you go digging up what the actual effects are for every decision you've immediately and irreversibly destroyed the game for yourself. This is true for heavy rain, this is true for mass effect, this is true for LA Noir, this is true for the Walking Dead, and this will continue to be true until the end of video game design as we know it. There aren't enough resources on the planet to make the video game that branches into a new video game every time you make every decision.




TL;DR-> The word 'tailored' does not mean what you think it means, obsessing on web forums about a game's programming is going to destroy that game for you every time. Enjoy the ride and don't get on the 'nothing worked out as promised' train until they actually finish the goddamn series.

tai·lored
adjective /ˈtālərd/ 

(of clothes) Smart, fitted, and well cut
- a tailored charcoal-gray suit

(of clothes) Cut in a particular way
- her clothes were well tailored and expensive

Made or adapted for a particular purpose or person
- specially tailored courses can be run on request

if game designers don't think people play games more than once or reload saves they are wrong

[Red Panda]

Here's a few examples that I've posted elsewhere:

Here's something that wouldn't require a lot of change, but would add that extra touch that's currently missing. At the beginning of episode 2, you're faced with the decision to cut off the foot of the band director, David. If you don't, Travis, the other student, freaks out and winds up getting shot. He dies on the operating table, so to speak, and serves as a lesson to the group about the reality of infection.


I like the ideas. When it comes to choice, I don't think you're adding anything radical.

You're really making a value argument. You're point is that life and death is more important than what is said so choices that impact life and death and real choices or important choices while ones that change dialogue and attitude aren't. They're superficial.

In the end, a choice is a choice. You put value on what choices are more important are less important and when you think TTG isn't aligned with that you complain about lack of choice. There is plenty of choice, just not the choice you want.

And to be fair, I think you have great ideas, but in the end it is a business so there are limits. I think you recognize that.

Personally, I think there have been plenty of life or death choices.

[thestalkinghead]

saying something and doing something are very different, saying something is superficial and meaningless unless it causes someone to do something.

so in the game dialogue choices (and peoples opinions of you) are meaningless, unless some action happens because of it

also actions with only short term affects are superficial and meaningless

[Red Panda]

saying something and doing something are very different, saying something is superficial and meaningless unless it causes someone to do something.

so in the game dialogue choices (and peoples opinions of you) are meaningless, unless some action happens because of it

also actions with only short term affects are superficial and meaningless

First, saying something is doing something thing: you're talking. Now, doing something doesn't mean you're saying something.

Second, when you say "saying something is superficial and meaningless" you are making a value statement and it doesn't make sense. Words are all about meaning. It's about communication. You wrote that reply with the idea in mind we share the same understanding of certain words and therefore I can come to understand what you're thinking through this shared meaning.

But lets even look at an example of words doing something without causing someone to do something. Let's a meeting. The person heading the meeting declares "the meeting is adjourned." Guess what, the meeting is over. Saying that sentence was an action.

But before this gets too abstract, let bring it back to the game. You say "so in the game dialogue choices (and peoples opinions of you) are meaningless, unless some action happens because of it." The thing is, forming an opinion of you or talking back is an action so your point is not well taken.

The issue with your whole position is you aren't articulating what is meaningful and why. You're not even doing a good job of articulating what is not meaningful: if words have no meaning, why talk? What is the point of speech? You talk, you write, you do all of that because you expect and action. You want people to think, to react, to engage. Your logic is inconsistent with what is easily observed.

Philosophers have been talking about this stuff for over 2,000 years. You're not saying anything groundbreaking. Neither am I.

[thestalkinghead]

First, saying something is doing something thing: you're talking. Now, doing something doesn't mean you're saying something.

Second, when you say "saying something is superficial and meaningless" you are making a value statement and it doesn't make sense. Words are all about meaning. It's about communication. You wrote that reply with the idea in mind we share the same understanding of certain words and therefore I can come to understand what you're thinking through this shared meaning.

But lets even look at an example of words doing something without causing someone to do something. Let's a meeting. The person heading the meeting declares "the meeting is adjourned." Guess what, the meeting is over. Saying that sentence was an action.

But before this gets too abstract, let bring it back to the game. You say "so in the game dialogue choices (and peoples opinions of you) are meaningless, unless some action happens because of it." The thing is, forming an opinion of you or talking back is an action so your point is not well taken.

The issue with your whole position is you aren't articulating what is meaningful and why. You're not even doing a good job of articulating what is not meaningful: if words have no meaning, why talk? What is the point of speech? You talk, you write, you do all of that because you expect and action. You want people to think, to react, to engage. Your logic is inconsistent with what is easily observed.

Philosophers have been talking about this stuff for over 2,000 years. You're not saying anything groundbreaking. Neither am I.

you are over complicating things, i am being more literal than philosophical.
and example would be if i said "i am going to kill you" but i dont, that is meaningless, but if i killed you that would be a meaningful action with long term consequences, if i said "i am going to kill you" then you kill me that would be a meaningful action caused by words

this would apply to the game

[Red Panda]

you are over complicating things, i am being more literal than philosophical.

This is all philosophical. This conservation is far from complex. You want to simplify it to death, fine, but it just makes it almost impossible to articulate your position.

an example would be if i said "i am going to kill you" but i dont, that is meaningless

No, that's not meaningless. It is a threat. It is an expression of anger. It describes an desire. It could have a lot of meanings. Context is important.


but if i killed you that would be a meaningful action with long term consequences

No. I mean, death is forever, but for the actor it may have no significant lasting consequences. Letting people live can have lasting consequences: they can attack you. But the real question is when we are talking about consequences what are we talking about?

if i said "i am going to kill you" then you kill me that would be a meaningful action cause by words

That doesn't make sense. Words don't kill. If you said, "I'm going to kill you," and then you fired a shot, but it hit the wrong target and killed someone else (Lilly killing Doug, for example" is that still a meaningful action? My intent and words didn't match my action anymore so how could it be?

Look, the big reason we care about choices at all are not because of consequences, which are unpredictable, but because of morals. A world with no choice is a world with no morals because nobody choices their actions so how can you hold them responsible for them?

For example, if you shoot to kill, regardless if you succeed or not, we could agree you made a morally bad decision because you had the intent to take a life. That's a simplification, but that's why choices are important.

On the flip side, in a world with no choice if you kill someone the defense simply says "Look, you can't me for this. I had no choice. I couldn't not kill them. How could punish for something I had no control over? I didn't do anything wrong because I couldn't choice to."

[Xarne]

Considering this is an adventure game crowd I expected a higher level of reading comprehension. What does everybody think "tailored" means? When you tailor a suit you don't swap it out with a T-shirt and shorts, you just trim it to fit you. If you play Lee one way you get a different experience than if you play him another way. If you save one character instead of another you get a more tailored experience. Tailored does not now imply, nor has it ever implied, that you get to make huge branching narrative decisions.

On the issue of 'meaningful' player choice you could throw the word meaningful around all day and not find two people who agree on what it means. It should also be considered that your save file still has every flag you tripped from episodes 1 through 3 and we've got two more to go where they can still play with your decisions, so prematurely assuming that nothing you've done to this point matters is self-defeating as well as unfounded. If what you wanted was a different game for every character you rescued you had unrealistic expectations, and since we've already discussed the widely misused word 'tailor' I'm not sure any of the advertising actually promised anything to that effect.

There are two major issues right here dragging a chunk of the community down on forums all over the internet right now. People are spending too much time looking behind the curtain trying to break the game down to its raw mechanics to justify their purchase, and people are obsessively discussing every possible outcome for every decision in the game. It's Mass Effect all over again and the game is only 3/5ths complete. A game like The Walking Dead isn't designed to be played 7 times to gorge ourselves on every ounce of content they pushed into the thing. Heavy Rain isn't designed that way either. These games are really convincing, personal experiences, when you play them in a vacuum. Even when the outcomes end up the same, unless somebody tells that to you, and/or you take it upon yourself to become upset with the gameplay decision to make it that way, you're going to have a tailored, awesome experience. As soon as you go digging up what the actual effects are for every decision you've immediately and irreversibly destroyed the game for yourself. This is true for heavy rain, this is true for mass effect, this is true for LA Noir, this is true for the Walking Dead, and this will continue to be true until the end of video game design as we know it. There aren't enough resources on the planet to make the video game that branches into a new video game every time you make every decision.




TL;DR-> The word 'tailored' does not mean what you think it means, obsessing on web forums about a game's programming is going to destroy that game for you every time. Enjoy the ride and don't get on the 'nothing worked out as promised' train until they actually finish the goddamn series.

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
Stop dissecting the game and enjoy it...and yes, I totally see ME3 all over again come Ep 5 :(

[malcom155]

Red Panda, Yamiraziel, we are not here to speak about dialogue or cutscene, we are to speak about choice that affect the STORY (again, i repeat myself but the important word).
In your thread Lilly and Kenny team, you speak about which side you choose and why,this is not the case here, whe speak about what was said in playing dead: choice (and the exemple was Hersell Farm, who you choose to help). All this choice don't matter, the storyline change a little in EP2 with Carley Doug but it's all.

At the end of the EP3, we have all the same survivors, the same dialogue (and yes, when you ask kenny to stop the train, both side have the SAME dialogue options),so what's your point to come here and say "Dialogue are important"; Look at the end of ep3 and you will see, i 've a save where i choose to be an ass...le with Kenny, when i ask him to stop the train, i have the option "i speak to a friend" wich calm him down...

I don't like this because i really enjoy the game, characters death are not a problem, we don't want to sleep with Carley (thake not please Yamiraziel that we are adult players not BSN members). When i play it the first time i find amazing that Carley Doug survive the second episode... Why ? Because at last one choice matter, one choice change things, one choice is important and i can change the story a little.
Only one game made me feel this, this is the Witcher 2, so an indie developper make a game better than any so named RPG (ME in memory, Deus ex Machina RED BLUE GREEN loool).

I'm certain at last one other choice will impact, the St john brothers, i don't know how, but it will... But now, at the end of the chapter 3 we are all at the same point and that is really a deception, the game is so promising... We don't want the impossible, just ONE choice that change things. The only was Carley/Doug.

@Sonic Boyster yes it's an adventure game but this game was advertised with the words CHOICE. If you make a change, there is a good and a bad one, not in TWD, all result at the same end at the episode3

[TheWildcard]

I don't feel like catching up with the thread, but I think I see whats going on by taking a glance. People are complaining about choices and others are saying "but there are choices!".

Ok look...Yes there are choices. The thing is we were promised choices that matter and had lasting consequences. Every single choice we make in this game is negated in some way to make the main story match. This is exactly the opposite of what we were promised...If the story matches the story is not tailored. If the choices are negated there are no lasting consequences. Its all about the difference between what was promised and what was delivered.

[YamiRaziel]

Red Panda, Yamiraziel, we are not here to speak about dialogue or cutscene, we are to speak about choice that affect the STORY (again, i repeat myself but the important word).
In your thread Lilly and Kenny team, you speak about which side you choose and why,this is not the case here, whe speak about what was said in playing dead: choice (and the exemple was Hersell Farm, who you choose to help). All this choice don't matter, the storyline change a little in EP2 with Carley Doug but it's all.

At the end of the EP3, we have all the same survivors, the same dialogue (and yes, when you ask kenny to stop the train, both side have the SAME dialogue options),so what's your point to come here and say "Dialogue are important"; Look at the end of ep3 and you will see, i 've a save where i choose to be an ass...le with Kenny, when i ask him to stop the train, i have the option "i speak to a friend" wich calm him down...

I don't like this because i really enjoy the game, characters death are not a problem, we don't want to sleep with Carley (thake not please Yamiraziel that we are adult players not BSN members). When i play it the first time i find amazing that Carley Doug survive the second episode... Why ? Because at last one choice matter, one choice change things, one choice is important and i can change the story a little.
Only one game made me feel this, this is the Witcher 2, so an indie developper make a game better than any so named RPG (ME in memory, Deus ex Machina RED BLUE GREEN loool).

I'm certain at last one other choice will impact, the St john brothers, i don't know how, but it will... But now, at the end of the chapter 3 we are all at the same point and that is really a deception, the game is so promising... We don't want the impossible, just ONE choice that change things. The only was Carley/Doug.

@Sonic Boyster yes it's an adventure game but this game was advertised with the words CHOICE. If you make a change, there is a good and a bad one, not in TWD, all result at the same end at the episode3

You do understand that you are taking a side in an argument that is not only between you and me. I'm saying things to the arguments presented by the members supporting your position, not only yours. If you, or thestalkinghead feel offended by my comments about Carley, then I'm apologizing personally to you two. I do believe that most of the fuss that is going around those choices threads is because of Carley's death. It might not be your particular problem, but it is the problem for like 80% of the people complaining. They didn't complain in ep 2. although there wasn't such a grand choice that you obviously expect of ep. 3. Larry died no matter what, the brothers die no matter what is it whether you wanna be involved or not. It's the same with ep. 3
I'm sorry that you're disappointed (although I shouldn't be since that isn't my fault) but I think my definition of "choices" and your definition of "choices" is really different. It's the same with the definition of "story". I've been playing RPG's my entire life and until TWD I hadn't played a game with such great combination of choices and dialogues.
I've played the Witcher 1 and it's a great game but I would say that TWD relation between characters and dialogue as a whole is more superb. One of my favourite RPGs of all time is Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines which is an amazing mix of action, roleplay elements, dialogues and story. It's pretty underrated though although it has a cult status among fans.
Those were great RPGs with great choices variations and story telling. Now a bad RPG in my opinion is Fable. It gives you the illusion that there are choices and in fact there are some... if you wanna be good or bad but it's all very shallow and superficial. Yeah you can marry a girl or buy a house or whatever and what? How does that affect anything? It doesn't. Your character stays the same and your wife doesn't care if you're going to die in the last battle or not. I strongly dislike it.
I like stories, movies, books, tv shows everything that is character-driven. Maybe that's why I cannot see the things your way. I love dealing with greatly written characters that feel as real as the people you know and randomly meet. To me choices like killing the girl at ep 3, killing the brothers in ep 2 or stealing the supplies are choices with huge impact both on Lee and the rest of the group. Everybody reacts in a proper way. That's great story telling and those were the choices I've always wanted to see. Choices where there is no right or wrong, choices where you don't care if one is more beneficial than the other, just choices in your own morals. To me this game's small changes of attitude are the things that makes it beautiful.
You mentioned that in the team kenny vs team lilly thread we are basically explaining why we are doing what we are doing. I suggest you check the f*** Kenny thread. We're not only discussing who's done what. If you read carefully you'll realize that we do not appreciate the story in the same way. The game is different for everybody and therefore everybody sees it from a different angle. Isn't that enough to support the argument that the game indeed tailors around your choices and that affects the story?
Do you think we could've discussed the characters of Fable in such depth? Arguing who's what kind of person and why they're doing what they are doing? I doubt that.
As a conclusion I will say that this is turning into a private chat again. If this post doesn't answer your questions I doubt anything I write ever will.
I suggest everybody say some sort of final statement and wait until some fresh people join the discussion. It's really pointless for the same 5-6 people to keep discussing this matter for another 5 pages.

[Nokando]

I'm enjoying the game, but agree with the theme of the thread. Choices are limited especially during EP3 , forcing you into choices you'd never freely make. It's also hard to see how choices you made in 1 & 2 have any relevance. It feels like a good story with the illusion of choice. If that's what it is, so be it, it's still interesting and enjoyable.

One of the most interesting aspects, worthy of a PhD in psychology, is the analysis of choices people make and the debate it stimulates.

The other thing is that you are role playing Lee, not playing as yourself, so you get to choose from options Lee might possibly enact, not necessarily yourself. The game still does a good job of making you want more and to see how the story progresses. Unfortunately that involves waiting with bated breath!

[malcom155]

@wildcard totally agree, my WTF with carley doug death was not their death, no, it's TWD; but i made i by the fact that all choices in the game are negated.

Dialogue are not choices, they lead always at the same results... I hoped in fact that the Carley doug choice last until the end, the illusion of choice would have been saved, but no and we have nothing left...

[Maugly]

I do believe that most of the fuss that is going around those choices threads is because of Carley's death.

Yes, because some choices do matter to people while other don't. Like it didn't really matter for me who got 4th ration, it didn't matter much for me who shot Duck, etc. But if I am a giving a choice who lives and who dies, I don't want my choice to be discarded.
My point, still, is that the game does not stand up to what it claims. MMORPG now paste your name and profession into the quest text - does that mean that my choice of the name and profession tailors the game?

[Xarne]

you guys thought this game was gonna be chock full of those 'Doug or Carley' / 'Omid or Christa' type events? Ideally that would be a 'Choose Your Own Adventurer's wet dream. Branching a story like that in this medium would costs way more than $25 for a season pass. Closer to $60. Essentially making 2/3 games and only charging us for 1? Stockholders would fire the staff who dared envision that on the spot! (imo)

[Xarne]

Yes, because some choices do matter to people while other don't. Like it didn't really matter for me who got 4th ration, it didn't matter much for me who shot Duck, etc. But if I am a giving a choice who lives and who dies, I don't want my choice to be discarded.
My point, still, is that the game does not stand up to what it claims. MMORPG now paste your name and profession into the quest text - does that mean that my choice of the name and profession tailors the game?

Yes, now you're getting the idea of tailoring in VG terms.
Besides you can get an e-girlfriend in any game, there might even be a new one for you Savanah who knows

[Maugly]

you guys thought this game was gonna be chock full of those 'Doug or Carley' / 'Omid or Christa' type events? Ideally that would be a 'Choose Your Own Adventurer's wet dream. Branching a story like that in this medium would costs way more than $25 for a season pass. Closer to $60. Essentially making 2/3 games and only charging us for 1? Stockholders would fire the staff who dared envision that on the spot! (imo)

Go please and learn how much visual novels cost. You may raise a good point that VNs are drawn, while TWD is rendered, but to be honest, TWD's 3D is pretty poor.
Also, I have already mentioned out there, I would gladly pay twice as much and wait twice as long if the game stood up for what it supposed to be.

[malcom155]

@wildcard totally agree, my WTF with carley doug death was not their death, no, it's TWD; but i made i by the fact that all choices in the game are negated.

Dialogue are not choices, they lead always at the same results... I hoped in fact that the Carley doug choice last until the end, the illusion of choice would have been saved, but no and we have nothing left...

@yamiraziel: i don't speak about the character, about the dialogue but choices ! All dialogue lead to the same results ! In the beginning of Episode 3, shooting the girl don't matter because if you act rapidly you can take all supplies... And even if you don't, nothing really change, one line of dialogue...
I don't complain in Episode 2 because at lasst ONE choice matter Doug/Carley, you don't see them a long time but they are here, so your choice matter ! You have change something in the story and this is important in my opinion.

I play only game where choices are present, 95% of the time, the game dont live the promess (note i don't like Fable ^^) I've played a rpg largely better in choices and dialogue: Planescape Torment. Test him, nothing is comparale, you have 16 answers to one question for example and your answers make your character (you play an amnesic) and your story (not all he quest or area are accessible to all playthrought only choices or joining one the 9 factions can open them), you play an immortal who want to die (not so easy trust me^^). I never played a better RPG... a better game in fact.


I don't want TWD to be like Torment, it's impossible. But at last, an illusion of choice would be cool...
at the end of episode 3, nothing is left... If TWD wasn't a good game (in my opinion of course) i wouldn't be here. Tella tale is making one the best game i've ever played (and i play game since the Mattel console game, yes 1980 !), why ? because is the second game who made me shouting at my
screen a big WTFFFFFFFFF and several times...

For the comment about carley, It just at the beginning it was "it's TWD world guy", followed by "you 're aking for the impossible", followed by "you want to sleep with Carley"... I was bored, nothing more...

@Xarne: read one of the Sandstorm post, you will see, it's possible without changing a lot of things

[Maugly]

Yes, now you're getting the idea of tailoring in VG terms.
Besides you can get an e-girlfriend in any game, there might even be a new one for you Savanah who knows

Thank you, sir, but I believe you're wrong. There are heluva lot of games which actually 'tailors' the story. Man, even as old as 95 game (I am not sure if I allowed to name non-TWD titles on this forum) had 2 different endings, yet TWD3 has only 1!
And yes, I preceive TWD3 as a game on it's own, since it's sold on it's own, so please, don't come out with 'just wait for episode 5' - I've already paid my 5 bucks for episode 3, why don't I get what I am expecting to get?

[TheWildcard]

I do believe that most of the fuss that is going around those choices threads is because of Carley's death. It might not be your particular problem, but it is the problem for like 80% of the people complaining. They didn't complain in ep 2. although there wasn't such a grand choice that you obviously expect of ep. 3. Larry died no matter what, the brothers die no matter what is it whether you wanna be involved or not. It's the same with ep. 3

There were a good number of people complaining about choice after episode 2. We were just drowned out and told so long as the doug/carley choice was there so was choice. Now that that choice has been taken away the people who were on the edge are now upset. Its not so much about the doug/carley choice its just thats what was giving them the illusion of choice. Now that that is gone they are waking up.

I like stories, movies, books, tv shows everything that is character-driven. Maybe that's why I cannot see the things your way. I love dealing with greatly written characters that feel as real as the people you know and randomly meet.

This is another issue people have. All the believable characters that they liked are now gone. I don't know how you feel about the three new ones, but the a lot of people feel they are unbelievable and were forced into the story.

To me choices like killing the girl at ep 3, killing the brothers in ep 2 or stealing the supplies are choices with huge impact both on Lee and the rest of the group. Everybody reacts in a proper way. That's great story telling and those were the choices I've always wanted to see. Choices where there is no right or wrong, choices where you don't care if one is more beneficial than the other, just choices in your own morals. To me this game's small changes of attitude are the things that makes it beautiful.

It seems you are satisfied with a simple dialog change here or there. I'm happy you feel you got what you paid for. The thing is that is the only way the choices are affected...minor dialog changes. This is NOT lasting consequences imho...Thats a quick remark and then you move on.

You mentioned that in the team kenny vs team lilly thread we are basically explaining why we are doing what we are doing. I suggest you check the f*** Kenny thread. We're not only discussing who's done what. If you read carefully you'll realize that we do not appreciate the story in the same way. The game is different for everybody and therefore everybody sees it from a different angle. Isn't that enough to support the argument that the game indeed tailors around your choices and that affects the story?

Well of course people are going to have different perspectives and opinions about the things that happen. That is not the result of the programming or story telling...

[Xarne]

Go please and learn how much visual novels cost. You may raise a good point that VNs are drawn, while TWD is rendered, but to be honest, TWD's 3D is pretty poor.
Also, I have already mentioned out there, I would gladly pay twice as much and wait twice as long if the game stood up for what it supposed to be.

No offense but I dont need to know the pricing on VNs to tell you that what you want out of this game isnt going to happen, no matter how much you pay or how long you wait. And while you may think TWDs art style is poor, it's intentional and based upon the art in the comics. Maybe you should have read up more about this game before wasting those hard earned dollars?

[Xarne]

Thank you, sir, but I believe you're wrong. There are heluva lot of games which actually 'tailors' the story. Man, even as old as 95 game (I am not sure if I allowed to name non-TWD titles on this forum) had 2 different endings, yet TWD3 has only 1!
And yes, I preceive TWD3 as a game on it's own, since it's sold on it's own, so please, don't come out with 'just wait for episode 5' - I've already paid my 5 bucks for episode 3, why don't I get what I am expecting to get?

So if I've got this straight: In 5 part story, you consider Episode 3 a standalone game...all plot, characters and story should have wrapped up right then and there...and because this didnt happen, goddammit, you want your $5 back...is that about right? Please go on

[Maugly]

No offense but I dont need to know the pricing on VNs to tell you that what you want out of this game isnt going to happen, no matter how much you pay or how long you wait. And while you may think TWDs art style is poor, it's intentional and based upon the art in the comics. Maybe you should have read up more about this game before wasting those hard earned dollars?

Why would I even care about comics? It's just like saying 'you shouldn't watch Mortal Kombat movie unless you played the first two games'. TWD game is an installment on its own, so I couldn't care less about what comics were. May be in comics Lee started by burning Clem alive and smashing Carley head with a radio.
And one more thing - this is a game, not a comics. Yeah, that's an interactive movie game, but still the player (me) expects the game to give reasonable response to his actions.
If I jump into the fire pit in Mario, I lose the game. That's a reasonable response. If I shoot Walter Skinner in certain game, I got jailed, and the game is over, that's a reasonable response. If I chose to revive a lead female character in this 95 game, she gets upset and doesn't love me anymore, that's a reasonable response. Now, whatever I do in C/D death scene, I get the same result - this is not reasonable response.
How comes the game which does not give reasonable response to my actions is me 'tailoring the story'?

[Maugly]

So if I've got this straight: In 5 part story, you consider Episode 3 a standalone game...all plot, characters and story should have wrapped up right then and there...and because this didnt happen, goddammit, you want your $5 back...is that about right? Please go on

Yes, because it's sold separately. You don't sell sodium separately claiming it's food, do you?
No, I don't want my $5 back, I just hate to be lied. I want either the game fixed (just as I've pointed out, it's OK if C/D die in ep.3 the other way) or TTG removing this line in the beginning of the game and apologizing.
----
Edit: to clarify, I think the game worth its $5, and I think I will buy ep.4, but I can't stand the lie. I am sorry, I am not from America, so I'm not gonna cover it up with some soft language like 'slightly exaggerating player decision's affect on the gameplay'.

[malcom155]

@xarne: the 3D motor of the game is poor, the control are tolerable, clipping everywhere etc... But it's not what's significant, what's predominates are the story and the characters, and i'm really satisfied until the ep3... Chunk is ok (i like it in fact, the world fall apart, he got a drink and plays guitar, when i was playing the game my wife saw this moment, she just says "he got the same mentality as you" yes he's good ^^ ) but the two others... they can die, i'll not move. Their appareance is forced on the player.

I will make a comparison: Dragon age origins, an average game where three choices matter in all the game (werewolf or elves, golems or not, mage or templars). I was satisfied only because three choices change the story (a little, but it is still change). With ep 2, i don't go here to complain or make feedback because my choice matter with Carley doug.
It's not the case in TWD now. Even if killing or not the St john brother appear during a dialogue with radioman, it will change a dialogue, not who is alive, a character or anything important, just a line or two...

So choices don't matter in the game, at last for now...

[Xarne]

Why would I even care about comics? It's just like saying 'you shouldn't watch Mortal Kombat movie unless you played the first two games'. TWD game is an installment on its own, so I couldn't care less about what comics were. May be in comics Lee started by burning Clem alive and smashing Carley head with a radio.
And one more thing - this is a game, not a comics. Yeah, that's an interactive movie game, but still the player (me) expects the game to give reasonable response to his actions.
If I jump into the fire pit in Mario, I lose the game. That's a reasonable response. If I shoot Walter Skinner in certain game, I got jailed, and the game is over, that's a reasonable response. If I chose to revive a lead female character in this 95 game, she gets upset and doesn't love me anymore, that's a reasonable response. Now, whatever I do in C/D death scene, I get the same result - this is not reasonable response.
How comes the game which does not give reasonable response to my actions is me 'tailoring the story'?

You alleged the rendering of TWD was poor as if TTG couldnt do better, I was just correcting your error, not stating you had to read the comics, just to know what you're talking about. Anyway, I can see you clearly care about ...something... to the point that you're going on about some game from almost 20 yrs ago, so I wont start with the 'that was then, this is now' or bore you with things you clearly dont care about like budgets or other silly real world things that are needed to make games a reality. Let go back to how this game is a sham how they've cleverly bamboozled all of us out of our five dollars.

[Xarne]

@xarne: the 3D motor of the game is poor, the control are tolerable, clipping everywhere etc... But it's not what's significant, what's predominates are the story and the characters, and i'm really satisfied until the ep3... Chunk is ok (i like it in fact, the world fall apart, he got a drink and plays guitar, when i was playing the game my wife saw this moment, she just says "he got the same mentality as you" yes he's good ^^ ) but the two others... they can die, i'll not move. Their appareance is forced on the player.

I will make a comparison: Dragon age origins, an average game where three choices matter in all the game (werewolf or elves, golems or not, mage or templars). I was satisfied only because three choices change the story (a little, but it is still change). With ep 2, i don't go here to complain or make feedback because my choice matter with Carley doug.
It's not the case in TWD now. Even if killing or not the St john brother appear during a dialogue with radioman, it will change a dialogue, not who is alive, a character or anything important, just a line or two...

So choices don't matter in the game, at last for now...

I understand, but BioWare made DA:O and had EA backing them. A triple A game maker and triple A publisher= huge budget. It took years to develop and then released as a single prdouct. TTG is probably working day and night to try and meet these monthly deadlines. Horse of a totally different color, but as for the choice made you are right. So a $60 AAA title gave you 1 choice in the game and it pleased you, this $25 dollar game has done the same and probably has at least one or two more to go...yes, no?
The art-style is intentional; working as intended. As for clipping issues, I dont have any, that sounds like spec/driver issue.

[Maugly]

You alleged the rendering of TWD was poor as if TTG couldnt do better, I was just correcting your error, not stating you had to read the comics, just to know what you're talking about. Anyway, I can see you clearly care about ...something... to the point that you're going on about some game from almost 20 yrs ago, so I wont start with the 'that was then, this is now' or bore you with things you clearly dont care about like budgets or other silly real world things that are needed to make games a reality. Let go back to how this game is a sham how they've cleverly bamboozled all of us out of our five dollars.

Oh, I actually care about game budgets much more than you could imagine. :)
And am fine with art style, since my first computer actually head 256*192*8 display. I was trying to figure out how much adding 2 characters would stretch the budget. Based on the fact art style is how do I put it... low-poly, I don't believe this puts to much strain, especially if you let C/D sit quietly in a corner of a boxcar.


Maybe you should have read up more about this game before wasting those hard earned dollars?

Was not this your words? So I just pointed out that I should not really care about reading about the game. The game has nothing to do with comics.

[Xarne]

Oh, I actually care about game budgets much more than you could imagine. :)
And am fine with art style, since my first computer actually head 256*192*8 display. I was trying to figure out how much adding 2 characters would stretch the budget. Based on the fact art style is how do I put it... low-poly, I don't believe this puts to much strain, especially if you let C/D sit quietly in a corner of a boxcar.



Was not this your words? So I just pointed out that I should not really care about reading about the game. The game has nothing to do with comics.

ok :)

[malcom155]

@Xarne Maugly has the point here and i agree totally with him, TWD was advertised multiples times to be a game where the story fits the choice of players on the long-term, not an interactive comic book.
The price don't matter in this argument because it was tellatale who said it repeatedly (see playing dead or the game's steam page, it's obvious).
For DAO, it was an example, it's a AAA game yes,but at ast my choices matter. In twd none change anything... At the end of the third episode, we have all the same survivors, the same dialogues, the same equipment. I don't ask TWD to be like DAO, no, i just want to have the game i was advertised: my choices matter in long term. Nothing more. Show me the choice that matter at the end of EP3; i can't see it. The only change was Doug/Carley, they're dead, now what is left ? Nothing; And the second difference with DAO is the fact that it was never advertised to be a game were choices matter. For me the three choices are like a little gift.

I've explained my point of vue numerous time and i don't want to expand it again and again. I'm done. The cards are in tellatale hands now, so is their reputation for future release... I will see if their straighten the shot. Or not.
To finish, i will say that critics of the gameall over the net are the same,cool story, great characters, but choices don't matter. It's just an interactive comic, etc... I'm not alone in this case, changes in dialogue are not the same that change in story...


Edit: oh, don't forgot: be civil, be constructive.

[SupahFly]

They didn't complain in ep 2. although there wasn't such a grand choice that you obviously expect of ep. 3. Larry died no matter what, the brothers die no matter what is it whether you wanna be involved or not. It's the same with ep. 3

Because in episode 2 there was still a difference between the two choices - either Carley was there or Doug. It's not that hard to be understand - at the end of episode 3 not a single element was different between different saves.

[Aldaron]

Just finished chapter 3, I think it's going in the right direction but it still lacks more choice. One of the problems for choice is that you use characters from the comic book. You know they can't die and that sucks. Lily is just the last example of that. It was a great moment to ley you choose to kill her in cold blood or any other thing. But no, because she HAD to survive you couldn't do anything.
But in general that lack of choice is there and that makes it feel more like a movie than a game. We're always on rails and w don't even have the ability to choose a between a couple of different tracks.
And lastly, it lacks sex and the comic has plenty so that's bad adaptation. I don't want fan service or crap like that but sex is part of life and it's absence feels fake.

[QuarterPounderVlad]

Just finished chapter 3, I think it's going in the right direction but it still lacks more choice. One of the problems for choice is that you use characters from the comic book. You know they can't die and that sucks. Lily is just the last example of that. It was a great moment to ley you choose to kill her in cold blood or any other thing. But no, because she HAD to survive you couldn't do anything.
But in general that lack of choice is there and that makes it feel more like a movie than a game. We're always on rails and w don't even have the ability to choose a between a couple of different tracks.
And lastly, it lacks sex and the comic has plenty so that's bad adaptation. I don't want fan service or crap like that but sex is part of life and it's absence feels fake.

Um, No.

[Xarne]

40% of the internet is pr0n...
jus sayin

[Sonic Boyster]

if game designers don't think people play games more than once or reload saves they are wrong

I'm not sure if this is supposed to have a point or not. Thanks for copying the definition of tailored, though, because it's *exactly* what I said it was. If you want to destroy your own experience that's on you, not on developers to protect you from yourself.

I'm still not understanding this mentality of "I don't care how the game makes me feel, or what the story is, I only care that I can change the story." I'm seeing it said all over in different ways. If you aren't playing a game to enjoy it, but instead just to feel like you're important, you might reconsider your hobbies. Plant a tree? There was no false advertising here, just a number of people who think their choices don't matter because the developer didn't make 10 different games to suit their play styles.

[dubesor]

Why is everyone talking about the term "tailored".

http://www.telltalegames.com/store/walking-dead

Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode.
Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series.

Profound... lasting consequences...choices that affect how the story plays out...

In the entire game across all Episodes (so far) there is only ONE lasting consequence. And that is if you gave Clem the Hoodie. Now she wears a hoodie instead of her other clothes. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW such profound choices.

[Aldaron]

40% of the internet is pr0n...
jus sayin

I'm not asking for porn, no even something explicit. Have you read the comic? Something along those lines would be fine. It's the end of the world and they behave like monks!

[Awesoke]

Too many horny, young teenagers playing this game. Go outside and mingle. It's more fun, trust me.

[Weili]

But in general that lack of choice is there and that makes it feel more like a movie than a game.
But that IS what TWD is supposed to be like.

Even before the release, it was stressed that TWD was NOT going to be a hack and slash zombie game. TWD was always meant to be a good story.

And lastly, it lacks sex and the comic has plenty so that's bad adaptation. I don't want fan service or crap like that but sex is part of life and it's absence feels fake.
I wouldn't say the comic has PLENTY of sex. There are some but out of the 101 issues so far I would say sex makes up at most 1% of the story.

I don't know about you, I doubt sex would high on most people's priority list when rotting corpses are being split open everywhere and you don't have a comfortable environment.

Besides, what exactly were you expecting? Lee somehow manages to take a few minutes from watching Clementine and sneak into a motel room with Lily or Carley and you as the player have 5 seconds to pick between different sex positions?

I'm not asking for porn, no even something explicit. Have you read the comic? Something along those lines would be fine. It's the end of the world and they behave like monks!
Yeah, cursing, thieving, murdering monks

Too many horny, young teenagers playing this game. Go outside and mingle. It's more fun, trust me.
Amen.

[Aldaron]

Too many horny, young teenagers playing this game. Go outside and mingle. It's more fun, trust me.

I'm 33, married and about to be a parent. Don't make assumptions because you don't like what I'm saying.

But that IS what TWD is supposed to be like.

Even before the release, it was stressed that TWD was NOT going to be a hack and slash zombie game. TWD was always meant to be a good story.

I didn't ask for more action, I ask for CHOICE. True choice, they say that the game is tailored to my play but it's not. It's a great story but it's the same story for everyone with a minor details.


I wouldn't say the comic has PLENTY of sex. There are some but out of the 101 issues so far I would say sex makes up at most 1% of the story.

I don't know about you, I doubt sex would high on most people's priority list when rotting corpses are being split open everywhere and you don't have a comfortable environment.

Besides, what exactly were you expecting? Lee somehow manages to take a few minutes from watching Clementine and sneak into a motel room with Lily or Carley and you as the player have 5 seconds to pick between different sex positions?


Yeah, cursing, thieving, murdering monks


Amen.

They spend 3 months stuck together in the same place. Yes I expect sex to happen they're supposed to be human beings. What you say works in my advantage, it's the end of the world, it's now or never.

Let's recap the comic:
Shane and Lory
Rick and Lory
Dale and Andrea
Carol and Tyreese
Michonne and Tyreese
Glenn and Maggie
And the list goes on...

[Weili]

I'm 33, married and about to be a parent. Don't make assumptions because you don't like what I'm saying.
You can be physically 33, married and about to be a parent but still think and behave like... well, not.

I didn't ask for more action, I ask for CHOICE. True choice, they say that the game is tailored to my play but it's not. It's a great story but it's the same story for everyone with a minor details.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but when did TWD promise just how different the story would be based on your choices? AFAIK no major game has been able to provide significantly different stories based on player choices. That was one of the major complaints of Mass Effects 3.

Do you truly grasp just how much "bigger" the game would be if each choice made the story significantly different? Let's assume each episode has 5 story-changing choices. By the end of episode 1, you would have 16 different story lines. By the end of episode 2, you would have 512. By the end of the game, you would have... well quite a few.

They spend 3 months stuck together in the same place. Yes I expect sex to happen they're supposed to be human beings. What you say works in my advantage, it's the end of the world, it's now or never.
Well if the zombie apocalypse happens, we know you'll be chasing tail lol

[DrMarmalade]

I'd just appreciate my decisions carrying more weight with the characters. For example, with Carley (SPOILERS) I think it woulda been great to be able to take the fall for it and have Lilly shoot you in the stomach or something before being tackled by someone. Or the ability to calm Lilly down if you had previously taken her side many times, something to that effect.
As it stands, Carley's death seemed massively unnecessary and totally pointless, like it was just shoehorned in for no reason. I'd actually like to see DLC that adds more choices, but... it should be free or really cheap, cause we already have one EA and that's more than we should have.

But uh, yeah, I don't think sex is necessary, really. Carley and Lee are, at best, somewhat interested in eachother (before she is needlessly killed anyway) and I don't think that's grounds for SEXY TIIIIME, and I don't see many of the others getting along so well that they feel the need to bone eachother. Some people actually have this thing called dignity.

[jadr93]

The problem I have is people think tailor is some broad word. To tailor something is to slightly adjust; that is what the game gives you. To make a comparison when you tailor a suit you make slight adjustments not change the suit into a completely new outfit. Likewise, the game doesn't make broad, changes that separate the story for long periods of time but it does slightly deviate at points for brief moments & gives you a personalized game based upon your dialogue decisions.

Also, hasn't it been confirmed that in episode 4 a culmination of our choices so far will effect a major event in the game? Maybe that will be the start of some slight branching seeing as the series is coming to a conclusion in the following episode.

[Weili]

I'd just appreciate my decisions carrying more weight with the characters. For example, with Carley (SPOILERS) I think it woulda been great to be able to take the fall for it and have Lilly shoot you in the stomach or something before being tackled by someone. Or the ability to calm Lilly down if you had previously taken her side many times, something to that effect.
As it stands, Carley's death seemed massively unnecessary and totally pointless, like it was just shoehorned in for no reason. I'd actually like to see DLC that adds more choices, but... it should be free or really cheap, cause we already have one EA and that's more than we should have.
I would also like to have a rocket launcher as a herd is coming toward me. Unless there is evidence that TTG purposely misled us as customers to think we were getting more than we did, there is really no ground for such complaints. Just because YOU think you should have gotten more doesn't make it true.

But uh, yeah, I don't think sex is necessary, really. Carley and Lee are, at best, somewhat interested in eachother (before she is needlessly killed anyway) and I don't think that's grounds for SEXY TIIIIME, and I don't see many of the others getting along so well that they feel the need to bone eachother. Some people actually have this thing called dignity.
Haha well said.

Yeah, besides Lee and Carley (more likely) and Lee and Lily (less likely) there aren't really any other potential "couples" out there, unless you count Kenny and Katjaa of course (but I doubt anything has been going on there for years).

[DrMarmalade]

I would also like to have a rocket launcher as a herd is coming toward me. Unless there is evidence that TTG purposely misled us as customers to think we were getting more than we did, there is really no ground for such complaints. Just because YOU think you should have gotten more doesn't make it true.

Okay, dude, you really need to calm down. Stop blindly defending the game against any and all criticism, I didn't say I was entitled, I didn't say they misled me, I was just saying that those things would make it a much better game. I wasn't just complaining either, it was constructive criticism, because I think TTG can do so much better than this. These guys have a ton of potential.

[Weili]

Okay, dude, you really need to calm down.
lol what made you assume I'm not calm?

Stop blindly defending the game against any and all criticism, I didn't say I was entitled, I didn't say they misled me, I was just saying that those things would make it a much better game. I wasn't just complaining either, it was constructive criticism, because I think TTG can do so much better than this. These guys have a ton of potential.
No one is BLINDLY defending the game. It's very simple, if TTG promised X, and we didn't get X, then we have a problem. But if TTG did NOT promise X but consumers WISHED for X, then TTG is not at fault.

[DrMarmalade]

lol what made you assume I'm not calm?


No one is BLINDLY defending the game. It's very simple, if TTG promised X, and we didn't get X, then we have a problem. But if TTG did NOT promise X but consumers WISHED for X, then TTG is not at fault.

For the last time, I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE AT FAULT. I am saying that if they added these things to the game (which I would gladly pay for as DLC) it would turn TWD into a great game instead of just a good one.

And yes, you ARE blindly defending it. You're not really understanding what I'm saying.

[Aldaron]

You can be physically 33, married and about to be a parent but still think and behave like... well, not.

And you know me well enough to judge me? I don't get whay are many of you so hostile.


Please correct me if I'm wrong but when did TWD promise just how different the story would be based on your choices? AFAIK no major game has been able to provide significantly different stories based on player choices. That was one of the major complaints of Mass Effects 3.

Do you truly grasp just how much "bigger" the game would be if each choice made the story significantly different? Let's assume each episode has 5 story-changing choices. By the end of episode 1, you would have 16 different story lines. By the end of episode 2, you would have 512. By the end of the game, you would have... well quite a few.

What is the point of having choices if you are not really choosing anything? I realize that the game should be much bigger and that it would be a challenge that doesn't mean that it's impossible.
Mass effect 3 was crap but it wasn't because it was a lot of work. They just wanted ONE ending, it wasn't that hard for them to add more (they actually did add one more).

[rachellouise85]

I guess surviving is just more important than sex to some people.

[Weili]

You're not really understanding what I'm saying.
I understand what you are saying. I just don't find your logic to be valid.

And you know me well enough to judge me?
I merely pointed out that you claiming to be "33, married and about to be a parent" doesn't change how you behave. I have encountered many people who may be more or less mature than their true age.

What is the point of having choices if you are not really choosing anything? I realize that the game should be much bigger and that it would be a challenge that doesn't mean that it's impossible.
No one said anything was "impossible". It's just a matter of what TTG promised and what we got. If those two match, then there is nothing to complain about.

I guess surviving is just more important than sex to some people.
Apparently not to our soon-to-be-a-parent friend, Aldaron here.

[DrMarmalade]

I understand what you are saying. I just don't find your logic to be valid.

Because you're a moron blindly defending the game! It's a good game that could be better with heavier decisions; I'm not asking for complete storyline overhauls, I just want my choices to carry more weight with who lives, and how much they like me actually mattering. Kenny doesn't like me, but it doesn't matter. Carley liked me, but it doesn't matter. Lilly liked me, but it didn't matter. None of these choices make ANY DIFFERENCE TO ANYTHING.
I just wanted the option to maybe save Carley if I was friends with Lilly, or if I was willing to incur the injury upon myself to save her.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[rachellouise85]

I don't know why getting on with one person, should make them like someone else and stop them from killing (someone other than yourself)or dying. Seriously, they each have their own personalities etc.

It really makes no sense.

[Weili]

Because you're a moron blindly defending the game! It's a good game that could be better with heavier decisions; I'm not asking for complete storyline overhauls, I just want my choices to carry more weight with who lives, and how much they like me actually mattering. Kenny doesn't like me, but it doesn't matter. Carley liked me, but it doesn't matter. Lilly liked me, but it didn't matter. None of these choices make ANY DIFFERENCE TO ANYTHING.
I just wanted the option to maybe save Carley if I was friends with Lilly, or if I was willing to incur the injury upon myself to save her.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Wah! I didn't get what I wanted!

http://www.momlogic.com/images/crying-baby.jpg

[DrMarmalade]

Wah! I didn't get what I wanted!

You know I'm right. You have no argument left, and because you're immature and can't accept that you were wrong, you post this.

Grow up dude.

I don't know why getting on with one person, should make them like someone else and stop them from killing (someone other than yourself)or dying. Seriously, they each have their own personalities etc.

It really makes no sense.

Was that even english?

[Aldaron]

I guess surviving is just more important than sex to some people.

It's a false dichotomy, it's not one thing or the other. You can have both (or nethier). Or does having sex is somehow deadly in the Walking Dead Game Universe?


I merely pointed out that you claiming to be "33, married and about to be a parent" doesn't change how you behave. I have encountered many people who may be more or less mature than their true age.

You also implied that I was a horny teen for asking sex.


No one said anything was "impossible". It's just a matter of what TTG promised and what we got. If those two match, then there is nothing to complain about.

I can complain all I want. I think that it's a great game (it's right there in the title) that doesn't mean it's perfect. If you disagree, fine.

[rachellouise85]

There is no such thing here as having to have both or neither. What they haven't had sex, so let's get them to kill themselves?

They don't see the need to be bed hopping around the group. Having sex is not necessary. Food is necessary.

[DrMarmalade]

You also implied that I was a horny teen for asking sex.
Pretty funny how he called you immature when he himself is extremely immature, isn't it?

[Red Panda]

Having sex is not necessary. Food is necessary.

What I don't get is, how long does this last? You get food, you're at a shelter (the motel), and you have to forage again, but not for awhile. You're basically sitting around in an enclosed space for 24 hours a day.

What do you do with all that time? Fret about death? Do you fret for months and years?

But let me ask a question about human nature: in what situation where survival was important did people stop thinking about sex? It's in our DNA to reproduce. That's what living organisms have to do to survive as a species. On the Savannah, with all kinds of nasty predators, which was probably worse than zombies that can basically be defeated with noise, it didn't stop people from having sex.

I don't know. I just don't understand your position.

[DrMarmalade]

What I don't get is, how long does this last? You get food, you're at a shelter (the motel), and you have to forage again, but not for awhile. You're basically sitting around in an enclosed space for 24 hours a day.

What do you do with all that time? Fret about death? Do you fret for months and years?

But let me ask a question about human nature: in what situation where survival was important did people stop thinking about sex? It's in our DNA to reproduce. That's what living organisms have to do to survive as a species. On the Savannah, with all kinds of nasty predators, which was probably worse than zombies that can basically be defeated with noise, it didn't stop people from having sex.

I don't know. I just don't understand your position.

That's a really good point, actually. Maybe it's because Lilly is crazy and Carley was interested in Lee? I sure as hell wouldn't want to be anywhere near Lilly in that manner.

Kenny is married, Mark and Ben are both pretty lame, and Lee has the option of pursuing Carley if he wants. So maybe that's why? Carley is interested in Lee, and Lilly is crazy.

[rachellouise85]

What I don't get is, how long does this last? You get food, you're at a shelter (the motel), and you have to forage again, but not for awhile. You're basically sitting around in an enclosed space for 24 hours a day.

What do you do with all that time? Fret about death? Do you fret for months and years?

But let me ask a question about human nature: in what situation where survival was important did people stop thinking about sex? It's in our DNA to reproduce. That's what living organisms have to do to survive as a species. On the Savannah, with all kinds of nasty predators, which was probably worse than zombies that can basically be defeated with noise, it didn't stop people from having sex.

I don't know. I just don't understand your position.

But they /don't/ have a safe area, they are constantly low on supplies etc. Food, water, shelter etc. are the necessities.I never said people would stop thinking about it, but there are more important things to consider. Plus, I'm you know that you don't just have sex, and the woman pops one out- to the reproducing bit. They don't want to be travelling with an undernourished, overly stressed pregnant woman.

[Weili]

You know I'm right. You have no argument left, and because you're immature and can't accept that you were wrong, you post this.
You are right that I have no argument left because my argument has been clearly stated numerous times already.

You also implied that I was a horny teen for asking sex.
Horny teenagers tend to be the kind of people who would complain about a video game lacking sex.

Pretty funny how he called you immature when he himself is extremely immature, isn't it?
Oh hey look, you found a reach-around partner.

[Aldaron]

Horny teenagers tend to be the kind of people who would complain about a video game lacking sex.

And sexualy disfuntional people would complain of the inclusion of sex. See how I can also make assumtions?

But they /don't/ have a safe area, they are constantly low on supplies etc. Food, water, shelter etc. are the necessities.I never said people would stop thinking about it, but there are more important things to consider. Plus, I'm you know that you don't just have sex, and the woman pops one out- to the reproducing bit. They don't want to be travelling with an undernourished, overly stressed pregnant woman.

Everybody being dead I image that there's and abundance of comdoms everywere, especially in a motel. They would have a lot of time and it's not like takes forever to do it. They obviously avoided sex for some reason, maybe they were afraid it could push the game ratings past mature but for me made the world and characters feel fake.

[Kenneloth]

40% of the internet is pr0n...
jus sayin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWEjvCRPrCo

[rachellouise85]

You know I'm right. You have no argument left, and because you're immature and can't accept that you were wrong, you post this.

Grow up dude.



Was that even english?

Sorry. I'll simplify, maybe it was too hard to understand.

You like two people.
Those two people do not like each other.
There is no reason for them to like each other.
You liking each them, and each of them liking you in return, does not affect their attitudes to each other.

So going off on a rant how someone shouldn't be killed, because you get on with the person doing the killing,being killed,or both, makes absolutely no sense.

Does this need further breaking down?

Of course you need at least two people who like you.

[rachellouise85]

And sexualy disfuntional people would complain of the inclusion of sex. See how I can also make assumtions?



Everybody being dead I image that there's and abundance of comdoms everywere, especially in a motel. They would have a lot of time and it's not like takes forever to do it. They obviously avoided sex for some reason, maybe they were afraid it could push the game ratings past mature but for me made the world and characters feel fake.

If you had read, I was replying to reproduction being a part of survival. Stop replying to things that you are taking out of context.

[Sonic Boyster]

Why is everyone talking about the term "tailored".

http://www.telltalegames.com/store/walking-dead



Profound... lasting consequences...choices that affect how the story plays out...

In the entire game across all Episodes (so far) there is only ONE lasting consequence. And that is if you gave Clem the Hoodie. Now she wears a hoodie instead of her other clothes. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW such profound choices.

One lasting consequence? So you're suggesting that Lee, Kenny, and the player all have Alzheimer. You're suggesting that choosing to save Shawn over Duck isn't profound? Or to teach a little girl how to use a gun and kill zombies? How about leading her on or telling her that her parents are probably dead? Let me guess, none of that matters to you because you're playing a video game, right? Those are big story points, and if you honestly don't consider any of them meaningful enough to cite here, there's no way you'd find anything meaningful in a branching storyline either. All you're doing is taking words and inserting your own meaning into them to make the advertising sound wrong when it's actually spot on.

http://www.giantbomb.com/the-walking-dead/61-34205/the-walking-deads-faces-of-death-part-1/35-558625/#96

Check out the interview here for a better explanation of the choices afforded to the player and what they represent, as well as how they affect the story and storytelling. Nobody here is promising you two branching games. It's about getting involved in the story. You never had any interest in the story, as you bought this game strictly so that you could feel important, and that isn't how it's built.

[Xarne]

Well, this is a 5 part series and these guys are all scared shitless. Maybe in season 2 when they get more established in an area they feel is worth making some kinda of camp...
I think this game is supposed to be about the reactions/perceptions of different personalities to the same situation. I'd rather they focus on that and on making decisions and branches in the story more noticeable than working on whose getting laid. It just doesnt seem like it would be a primary concern at this point. Food, clothing, shelter, weapons, communications are a bit higher on the list

[Weili]

And sexualy disfuntional people would complain of the inclusion of sex. See how I can also make assumtions?
First, it's actually spelled sexually (with two L's) and dysfunctional. No I'm not a spelling nazi, just your average, educated American.

There would be plenty of people who would complain about the inclusion of sex, including sexually dysfunctional people. Even though I know what you're trying to do, your argument is irrelevant because no one complained about the INCLUSION of sex. Heck, as you know very well yourself, there is not even ANY sex in TWD lol

So don't try to turn attention away from your own problems, especially when you don't even have a leg to stand on.

[Masta23]

So the op wanted sex to make it more realistic, considering the circumstances, with the zombie apocalypse and all. The comics had sex, so what's the big deal? TWD is supposed to be about survival, and making real decisions. Is it really so far fetched that there could be sex in a computer game?

[Weili]

So the op wanted sex to make it more realistic, considering the circumstances, with the zombie apocalypse and all. The comics had sex, so what's the big deal? TWD is supposed to be about survival, and making real decisions. Is it really so far fetched that there could be sex in a computer game?
Sex itself is not a big deal nor is it far fetched.

Had Carley survived, I wouldn't be surprised if her and Lee had sex toward the end of episode 3 or at most episode 4. However, besides Lee and Carley, there just aren't any other suitable couples in the group. Unless of course you wanted to see married sex between Katjaa and Kenny. Considering the circumstances, there is nothing wrong with having no sex in the game SO FAR.

[SupahFly]

One lasting consequence? So you're suggesting that Lee, Kenny, and the player all have Alzheimer. You're suggesting that choosing to save Shawn over Duck isn't profound? Or to teach a little girl how to use a gun and kill zombies? How about leading her on or telling her that her parents are probably dead? Let me guess, none of that matters to you because you're playing a video game, right? Those are big story points, and if you honestly don't consider any of them meaningful enough to cite here, there's no way you'd find anything meaningful in a branching storyline either. All you're doing is taking words and inserting your own meaning into them to make the advertising sound wrong when it's actually spot on.

http://www.giantbomb.com/the-walking-dead/61-34205/the-walking-deads-faces-of-death-part-1/35-558625/#96

Check out the interview here for a better explanation of the choices afforded to the player and what they represent, as well as how they affect the story and storytelling. Nobody here is promising you two branching games. It's about getting involved in the story. You never had any interest in the story, as you bought this game strictly so that you could feel important, and that isn't how it's built.

No matter if u choose to save Shawn or Duck Shawn dies. No matter what you choose the same thing happens at the end. The interview doesn't matter, the game was advertised that way, the game just faked it.

[Zunu]

[SPOILERS]


As it stands, Carley's death seemed massively unnecessary and totally pointless, .

We knew it would only be a matter of time before Telltale decided to wrap up the alternate stories of Carley and Doug, so they could devote resources to other possible alternate storylines. Otherwise they would have to keep on constructing parallel scenes for both characters all the way to the end of the series. All well and good but that would take resources away from creating other branching decision points. That also provides a reason as to why there is no Lee/Carley affair in Carleyverse. Because money and time would have to be spent creating an alternate subplot in Dougverse.

[AceStarr]

I know if a Z-apoc happen in real ife im not thinking bout sex for like the first month lol. But once again who knows if you trap in a house lets say two weeks with someone you attracted to once you feel safe im pretty sure nature shall kick in and you wanna get freaky :p

[Zombies are Awesome!]

are you mature people (at least i think you are mature) really arguing about sex in a videogame? seriously?

[Master of Aeons]

Everything in Heavy Rain happens in a linear fashion too. The only stuff that changes is whether your characters are alive or not at the end. That's probably going to be the same in this game, too. Only the last handful of survivors can survive or die based on your actions.

How are the billion pointless decisions in Heavy Rain are different from the hundreds in Walking Dead? Fail the driving portion, you still get the next clue. Don't gather clues? You still can find the solution. Someone dies? The story still continues through the same mystery.

There isn't a game that yet exists that really does the experience that people want. Look: This summarizes it well.
http://chzvideogames.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/video-game-memes-the-glory-days-of-squaresoft.png

[Master of Aeons]

(at least i think you are mature)

Shh...

[Xarne]

thats a good representation, especially of Square Enix
actually they're all pretty accurate

[dubesor]

One lasting consequence? So you're suggesting that Lee, Kenny, and the player all have Alzheimer.

Yes I am. The characters actions in the game can not be influenced by anything you ever do or say. The freshest example is Lilly.
If you side with her from Ep1-3 all the way, 100%, cpr her dad etc she will do the exact same as when you side AGAINST her 100%, help kill her dad etc. She will do the exact same (=kill Doug/Carley and kick you out of RV stealing it if you let her in).
So yes, I am saying exactly that

You're suggesting that choosing to save Shawn over Duck isn't profound?

Yes indeed. Shawn dies either way and Duck lives either way.

Or to teach a little girl how to use a gun and kill zombies?

Except her teaching it is no choice, so doesn't belong in this thread. And she didn't learn it anyway as you can see in the trainstation

The choices this game gives you are minor and not lasting. Again, the only decision that changed anything in the game so far was the hoodie of Clementine. All other decisions resultet in absolute no change whatsoever. You could play the game twice with always doing the exact opposite through all episodes and in both games you will end up in the same exact spot with the same exact people doing the same exact stuff. Except, again, in 1 game Clem might be wearing something different. And that guys, I do not count as profound choices nor affecting how the story plays out.

[Aldaron]

First, it's actually spelled sexually (with two L's) and dysfunctional. No I'm not a spelling nazi, just your average, educated American.

I appreciate the correction, even when you only do it to show your superiority. To do so you call yourself an "average" educated american meaning that I'm lower than that. Of course, once again, your assumptions got the better of you: I'm american because I live in a continent called american but specifically I'm Argentinian, and english is not my native tongue. It's been a long time since I wrote in this language.


There would be plenty of people who would complain about the inclusion of sex, including sexually dysfunctional people. Even though I know what you're trying to do, your argument is irrelevant because no one complained about the INCLUSION of sex. Heck, as you know very well yourself, there is not even ANY sex in TWD lol

And there's plenty of people who would complain about the lack of sex. It makes the whole thing more unrealistic. And yes, you are complaining that some of us don't like the fact that there's no sex at all. It doesn't have to be explicit and crass, it can be implied.


So don't try to turn attention away from your own problems, especially when you don't even have a leg to stand on.

I didn't realize that I have problems at all, would you be so kind and enlight me?

are you mature people (at least i think you are mature) really arguing about sex in a videogame? seriously?

I like adaptations to be faithfull to their original material and besides it's only natural for humans to be humans. Quantic Dream's games usually have sex in an adult fashion. It's nothing wrong with that. Nobody would complain if this were a movie or a tv show, videogames are just another type of media.

[JabbaDaHuttX7]

You are right that I have no argument left because my argument has been clearly stated numerous times already.


Horny teenagers tend to be the kind of people who would complain about a video game lacking sex.

:rolleyes: How mature of you.

And TC, yeah, many people have already said that the game could do better with more C&C, but fanboys will be fanboys, I guess. Some people just seem to take it as their personal obligation to white knight video games.

[Lars80]

Wah! I didn't get what I wanted!

http://www.momlogic.com/images/crying-baby.jpg

Did Telltale promise 1 episode per month?

[YamiRaziel]

One lasting consequence? So you're suggesting that Lee, Kenny, and the player all have Alzheimer. You're suggesting that choosing to save Shawn over Duck isn't profound? Or to teach a little girl how to use a gun and kill zombies? How about leading her on or telling her that her parents are probably dead? Let me guess, none of that matters to you because you're playing a video game, right? Those are big story points, and if you honestly don't consider any of them meaningful enough to cite here, there's no way you'd find anything meaningful in a branching storyline either. All you're doing is taking words and inserting your own meaning into them to make the advertising sound wrong when it's actually spot on.

http://www.giantbomb.com/the-walking-dead/61-34205/the-walking-deads-faces-of-death-part-1/35-558625/#96

Check out the interview here for a better explanation of the choices afforded to the player and what they represent, as well as how they affect the story and storytelling. Nobody here is promising you two branching games. It's about getting involved in the story. You never had any interest in the story, as you bought this game strictly so that you could feel important, and that isn't how it's built.

Here's how 70% of the comments in this thread sound like:
Who cares, maaan, they all die!!! They all die! My choices do not have an impact. I can't save Carley... grrrr... stupid game advertisement... grr... I CAN"T SAVE MY E-GIRLFRIEND... Grrr they lied!!! There are not choices... they all die... I'm not a hero.... bla bla bla.... I want a refund... bla bla bla

Seriously, mate, at least I'm giving up on this discussion. People are not here to discuss, they here to whine.

[MichaCHOW]

In the preview of Episode 4 they show Clementine wearing the hoodie. Oh! Feels like TellTale Games had their own script of how they wanted it to go! Follow the real story of Lee Everett! Book coming out after all episodes are done! /sarcasm

"Oh so that's how it's supposed to go, looks like I made all the wrong choices, Oh wait! What choices?! Everything happened to him the exact way it happened to me! He just talks different, hahahaha. I get it now"

[MichaCHOW]

You got people arguing left and right about how choices do/don't matter. With dialogue being a choice or not, and whatnot.

Well here's how it goes down.

Larry will always have a smashed head
Kenny always ends up a broken mess
Katjaa and Duck always die
Carley/Doug always get shot
Lilly will always leave/get left behind
Clementine will always want to find her parents


Nice or mean, Kenny will always drop that nice salt lick on his fat head.

Your dialogue choices don't affect Kenny, because in the end whether he hates you or not, he gives you the look only a friend would give and says "Got to be honest with each other"

Whether or not you talked to Kat/Duck or cared about them doesn't matter because he'll always be bit and shot and she'll always be suicidal

Carley/Doug, saved whoever. Always shot.

Whether or not you're nice/mean to Lilly she'll ditch you/you leave her

Being nice or mean to Clementine, she's always going "I want to see my parents" and talk to the mystery creeper.

__________________________________________________ ______

You will always get kicked off the farm.
You always end up in the fridge.
You will always go to the Dairy.
You will always fight Andy.
You will always investigate whether or not you think Lilly's paranoid.

The list can go on and on.

[YamiRaziel]

OP, who said that there wasn't sex in the game? Are you sure that Kenny and Katjaa do not do it in the RV? I'm perfectly okay to be in the dark about this. Go ask the developers if you care that much.

Your problem is not the lack of sex in the game, it's your character's lack of sex that bothers you.
Which brings us back to what Weili said:

You can be physically 33, married and about to be a parent but still think and behave like... well, not.

Also, next time before you decide to start a new thread, you can use the search engine to check whether there are such topic or not. Guess what, there is another absolutely identical thread. If you're not gonna do it for us, do it for the mods. Make it easier on them.

Too many horny, young teenagers playing this game. Go outside and mingle. It's more fun, trust me.

This sums it all up.

[Red Panda]

I've never seen it put like this before! Thanks for the fresh, original perspective! This really does deserve it's own thread! :)

[MichaCHOW]

I've never seen it put like this before! Thanks for the fresh, original perspective! This really does deserve it's own thread! :)

Took a little thought and time :d

[ItsMeArmani]

Why do people keep making individual threads on this subject? WE GET IT. *facepalm*

Here we go again....

[ommmnomnomnom]

Maybe some people like to get the product that was advertised? I still enjoy the story we get, but they shouldn't put at the start of every episode the story is tailored and changes depending on the choices when ttg have made the decisions for us already.

[YamiRaziel]

You don't want choices, you want to be Gods. Well, you are weak whining humans both in the game and RL apparently. Get over it.

Do you know what choice is? Choice is whether to be good or bad to a little girl who's parents are probably dead.
Saving everybody from certain death is your latent dream of being more than you are. You want to be heroes you're not in RL and because you can't be, you start crying that the game doesn't allow you to make choices.
This is pathetic, honestly!

[QuarterPounderVlad]

You don't want choices, you want to be Gods. Well, you are weak whining humans both in the game and RL apparently. Get over it.

Do you know what choice is? Choice is whether to be good or bad to a little girl who's parents are probably dead.
Saving everybody from certain death is your latent dream of being more than you are. You want to be heroes you're not in RL and because you can't be, you start crying that the game doesn't allow you to make choices.
This is pathetic, honestly!

My hero. I salute you, Kind Person.

[MichaCHOW]

You don't want choices, you want to be Gods. Well, you are weak whining humans both in the game and RL apparently. Get over it.

Do you know what choice is? Choice is whether to be good or bad to a little girl who's parents are probably dead.
Saving everybody from certain death is your latent dream of being more than you are. You want to be heroes you're not in RL and because you can't be, you start crying that the game doesn't allow you to make choices.
This is pathetic, honestly!

So bitter, I can go be mean or nice to a little girl in real life.

Get it?

[ItsMeArmani]

You don't want choices, you want to be Gods. Well, you are weak whining humans both in the game and RL apparently. Get over it.

Do you know what choice is? Choice is whether to be good or bad to a little girl who's parents are probably dead.
Saving everybody from certain death is your latent dream of being more than you are. You want to be heroes you're not in RL and because you can't be, you start crying that the game doesn't allow you to make choices.
This is pathetic, honestly!

Exactly, well said sir.

[ommmnomnomnom]

You don't want choices, you want to be Gods. Well, you are weak whining humans both in the game and RL apparently. Get over it.

Do you know what choice is? Choice is whether to be good or bad to a little girl who's parents are probably dead.
Saving everybody from certain death is your latent dream of being more than you are. You want to be heroes you're not in RL and because you can't be, you start crying that the game doesn't allow you to make choices.
This is pathetic, honestly! don't push your insecurities on others, if we wanted to be gods we d play gta or saints row, stop trying to be profound about death, everyone knows its an inevitability, people aren't upset because they are mortal it's because they want a game that is tailored to their choices made, not pre made by ttg. You have an inferiority complex please see a doctor.

[kongdong]

All I want is some choices that let me have impact on an outcome. Of course not every single choice because that would be too expensive to develop, but at least 1 or 2 choices that make something different. So far the game is good but the whole choice issue is bothering indeed if that's what you expected. And rightfully so according to how this game was marketed. And it didn't deliver in this regard, which was a huge selling point for many. That's why there are so many complaints about it. Most people like the game but are disappointed by the fact of not being able to alter anything within the game.

[Maugly]

Do you know what choice is? Choice is whether to be good or bad to a little girl who's parents are probably dead.
Saving everybody from certain death is your latent dream of being more than you are. You want to be heroes you're not in RL and because you can't be, you start crying that the game doesn't allow you to make choices.
This is pathetic, honestly!

I have already stated on that forum, that from the game perspective, the choice is when the game reacts in some reasonable way to your action, which is not happening. What's the meaning of all those choices if the game just discards them and gives you exactly the same reaction?
And if this game is about some murderer doing babysitting in ZA world, I'd rather TTG tell me this now, because this is not the kind of story I am interested in.

[YamiRaziel]

So bitter, I can go be mean or nice to a little girl in real life.

Get it?

I get it, but I'm not sure you do. Yes you can be mean or nice to a little girl and that will be a choice you can make.
You can't save everybody's lives because you're not God. It will be a choice to try or not, the result is irrelevant. Sometimes there are things you cannot change.
Do you, get it now?

ommmnomnomnom, I'm not the one crying about the game, am I?

[JabbaDaHuttX7]

OP, who said that there wasn't sex in the game? Are you sure that Kenny and Katjaa do not do it in the RV? I'm perfectly okay to be in the dark about this. Go ask the developers if you care that much.

Your problem is not the lack of sex in the game, it's your character's lack of sex that bothers you.
Which brings us back to what Weili said:



I disagree. I think being married, 33, and about to be a parent can make a person more mature. There are obviously exceptions, but resorting to straw man arguments ("it's your character's lack of sex that bothers you") and straight up ad hominem attacks ("horny teenagers") doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in a person that's about to judge someone else's maturity level on the internet.

It personally hasn't occured to me that I'd want more sex to happen in this game, but being so abrasive in response to the idea being mentioned, and declaring the person who brought it up to be "immature" and calling him a "horny teenager" in the process seems like a pot & kettle situation to me.

[MichaCHOW]

I get it, but I'm not sure you do. Yes you can be mean or nice to a little girl and that will be a choice you can make.
You can't save everybody's lives because you're not God. It will be a choice to try or not, the result is irrelevant. Sometimes there are things you cannot change.
Do you, get it now?

ommmnomnomnom, I'm not the one crying about the game, am I?

And you just admitted that the choice doesn't matter.

I'm not crying about anything, I'm just clearing up things for people like you except you keep mentioning God like you're the psychologist of the year who thinks they've analyzed everyone's perspective and summed it down to everyone wanting to be the simplest, thing to conclude to.

You're crying about everyone else crying, so how about you quit being hypocrite, that's pathetic. You're not helping yourself or anyone when you answer one of us in comparison to everyone who replies to you.

There simply is no tailored choice in this game, it's a copy and paste dialogue comic book with the media title "video game"

[Aldaron]

OP, who said that there wasn't sex in the game? Are you sure that Kenny and Katjaa do not do it in the RV? I'm perfectly okay to be in the dark about this. Go ask the developers if you care that much.

Your problem is not the lack of sex in the game, it's your character's lack of sex that bothers you.
Which brings us back to what Weili said:


Sure, they might. And yes of course it's your character that's the problem. It doesn't have to happen but you could open the possibility. It could bring a lot of drama to the plot and it's a realistic thing to happen.

Insulting me won't gain you a thing, the fact that you feel so strongly for the idea of sex in the game (up the point of insulting me for bringing it up) says more of you than of me.


Also, next time before you decide to start a new thread, you can use the search engine to check whether there are such topic or not. Guess what, there is another absolutely identical thread. If you're not gonna do it for us, do it for the mods. Make it easier on them.


I did search and didn't found anything, maybe I should have tried harder but half the topics I've seen in the shot time I've been here are of things talked about before. The mods could merge the topic if they want. Besides the sex part was only part of what I said, you're all so hung up on it that you forget everything else.

If you want to help the mods you should stop trying to do their job, especially since you do it while being hostile and insulting. You'll only create trouble and flame wars.

[QuarterPounderVlad]

/cough.
I WANTED To type something pretty darn long,
But i'll just do a tl;dr for all Qqers- People FUCKING Die.

[YamiRaziel]

I disagree. I think being married, 33, and about to be a parent can make a person more mature. There are obviously exceptions, but resorting to straw man arguments ("it's your character's lack of sex that bothers you") and straight up ad hominem attacks ("horny teenagers") doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in a person that's about to judge someone else's maturity level on the internet.

It personally hasn't occured to me that I'd want more sex to happen in this game, but being so abrasive in response to the idea being mentioned, and declaring the person who brought it up to be "immature" and calling him a "horny teenager" in the process seems like a pot & kettle situation to me.

To me stating that Telltale lied and false advertised their game because some people want to have God given powers and other feel bad for not being able to bone a certain character in the game is not something I'm gonna take as mature attitude.

Aldaron, it does say more about me? You know that I did check your thread and I found 3 pages of arguments how the game could've been better if it had more sex.

[Maugly]

I think many people are just missing the point there.

It's not Carley death why people got mad at the game and TTG. It's how the game discards players' choices what got them mad. And Carley death was only a trigger. Many people were attached to Carley and when they saw her die they just tried to re-load and find different outcome... To find out that there is no choice, there is only illusion of a choice, and the game advertisement, is, uhm, fake.

[YamiRaziel]

And you just admitted that the choice doesn't matter.

I'm not crying about anything, I'm just clearing up things for people like you except you keep mentioning God like you're the psychologist of the year who thinks they've analyzed everyone's perspective and summed it down to everyone wanting to be the simplest, thing to conclude to.

You're crying about everyone else crying, so how about you quit being hypocrite, that's pathetic. You're not helping yourself or anyone when you answer one of us in comparison to everyone who replies to you.

There simply is no tailored choice in this game, it's a copy and paste dialogue comic book with the media title "video game"

Oh, I'm sorry, did I touch a nerve? I didn't post my comment to anybody specifically. It was my perception of the general attitude of the people in this thread. If you recognized yourself in my words, it's your own problem, not mine.

When did I exactly admit that choices do not matter? You (I'm being specific now) clearly do not know the difference between a choice and a result.

Maugly, choice and result are two different things. You can try to save her or not. That's choice.
Her death is the RESULT of somebody else's choice.

[QuarterPounderVlad]

I think many people are just missing the point there.

It's not Carley death why people got mad at the game and TTG. It's how the game discards players' choices what got them mad. And Carley death was only a trigger. Many people were attached to Carley and when they saw her die they just tried to re-load and find different outcome... To find out that there is no choice, there is only illusion of a choice, and the game advertisement, is, uhm, fake.

What about DOUG?

[Maugly]

What about DOUG?

Doug had much less likers, so their voice is not heard. You know, you can always scrap the minority. :)

[MichaCHOW]

Oh, I'm sorry, did I touch a nerve? I didn't post my comment to anybody specifically. It was my perception of the general attitude of the people in this thread. If you recognized yourself in my words, it's your own problem, not mine.

When did I exactly admit that choices do not matter? You (I'm being specific now) clearly do not know the difference between a choice and a result.

Maugly, choice and result are two different things. You can try to save her or not. That's choice.
Her death is the RESULT of somebody else's choice.

You're full of it is my response to your first line.

The result is irrelevant you said. No one said you can't make a choice, we're talking about the results of making choices, and the choices don't matter because the result is always the same.

Get it right, troll. No one said you can't make a choice. Said it twice for you.

[vixvicco]

I agree with the choices point. I feel as if the characters that were killed of make it easier for them to tie up lose ends, and not have to keep with separate voice actors anymore or something. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was lazy on their part. I never liked Lilly, but I found her behavior in the last episode to be unlike her (then again, her father just got killed). Its' hard to say, but I feel like that was just an easy way to get rid her too.

In terms of the sex, each to their own. I never had any problems playing any games that have no sex scenes. Its really not important. If you want that, just continue reading the comics.

[SupahFly]

Her death is the RESULT of somebody else's choice.

Somebody else's (the writers of the game) not ours, well said.

[Maugly]

Maugly, choice and result are two different things. You can try to save her or not. That's choice.
Her death is the RESULT of somebody else's choice.

From the game FAQ: 'A decision that you make or something that you say will have repercussions not only in the episode that you’re playing'.

Please name me one effect of my choice during the road argument scene that had an effect during the episode I was playing?

[Silverwolfpet]

Let's keep it nice in here, shall we?

Weili, stop posting pictures of yourself, please. A thoughtful and polite argument is much more appreciated.

Insults to other members are not tolerated.

[YamiRaziel]

What about DOUG?

People who choice Doug do not care about e-love that much. That's probably one of the reason why we haven't seem them cry as much as those who choose Carley.

MichaCHOW, this is the last time I'm writing something directly to you. I'm really not gonna spend my time with you anymore.

There is result of making choices. You can be bad or good to Clem, Lilly, Kenny, Katjaa and pretty much everyone in the game. You can save either Carley or Doug in ep 1. You can decide to kill the brothers in ep. 2 or show mercy. You can either retain hope and help Larry and assist in killing him. Those are choices and they affect the characters. As the characters are integral to the story, then choices affect the story.

You want your God like powers and being able to save everybody.

the choices don't matter because the result is always the same.
You forget that the other character make choices as well. Lilly choose to shot Carley/Ben, it was her choice not yours. You choose to leave her or take her with you. Later her choice is to steal the RV.
I'm sorry that your choices are not as Godly as you want them.

Maugly, Lee was not the prime star in that argument. In ep.4 you'll probably see the effects of your choices.
I can tell you choices that have been affecting the story since ep. 1.
Example: Be nice or mean to Kenny. It changes your entire perception of the story.
This is still ep. 3. The story is far from over. There's not really a reason to believe that your choices won't affect your Kenny/Lee relationship in ep 4 and 5.

[MichaCHOW]

People who choice Doug do not care about e-love that much. That's probably one of the reason why we haven't seem them cry as much as those who choose Carley.

MichaCHOW, this is the last time I'm writing something directly to you. I'm really not gonna spend my time with you anymore.

There is result of making choices. You can be bad or good to Clem, Lilly, Kenny, Katjaa and pretty much everyone in the game. You can save either Carley or Doug in ep 1. You can decide to kill the brothers in ep. 2 or show mercy. You can either retain hope and help Larry and assist in killing him. Those are choices and they affect the characters. As the characters are integral to the story, then choices affect the story.

You want your God like powers and being able to save everybody.


You forget that the other character make choices as well. Lilly choose to shot Carley/Ben, it was her choice not yours. You choose to leave her or take her with you. Later her choice is to steal the RV.
I'm sorry that your choices are not as Godly as you want them.

You really don't get anything at all, go backwards a page and read the longer thing I put. None of the things you say or do matter because what happens?

Clem only wants her parents, Lilly leaves regardless, Kenny will always be broken and your friend at the end of Episode three, Katjaa and Duck will always die, the brothers are obviously never seen again, Larry's dead indefinitely, Carley/Doug is dead indefinitely. Choice affects story? Maybe if you only played once and didn't try any repeats that's what YOU think. But in the end whatever "Choices" you made didn't do anything, so pay attention, quit trying to be so self-righteous and think you know everything.

You're pulling all this "someone else made the choice" out of your ass, that has nothing to do with what choice the PLAYER makes. Your entire argument is irrelevant troll

[Viser]

Exactly. You can't change the outcome of the scene outside the RV because no matter what you (Lee) do, Carley will always defend Ben and stand up to Lilly, which causes Lilly to shoot her. You can't prevent her death because she makes choices as well, and her choice is to defend Ben.

And I think you're wrong there, episode 3 doesn't always end with Kenny being your friend, don't know where you got that from.

[Maugly]

Maugly, Lee was not the prime star in that argument. In ep.4 you'll probably see the effects of your choices.
I can tell you choices that have been affecting the story since ep. 1.
Example: Be nice or mean to Kenny. It changes your entire perception of the story.
This is still ep. 3. The story is far from over. There's not really a reason to believe that your choices won't affect your Kenny/Lee relationship in ep 4 and 5.

Please. Episode 3 is a stand-alone product, it is sold as a stand-alone product, and I was said (I even quoted you this part) that I've got to see an effect of my decisions right in the episode I am playing. It's like... idk...

- Frodo, are you going to Mordor to fullfill your mission?
- Yes.
- Okay, than take this ring. You will meet nazguls, Legolas and stuff (...)
-------
- Frodo, are you going to Mordor to fullfill your mission?
- No.
- You must. Take this ring. You will meet nazguls, Legolas and stuff (... the same story, and may be in the end of the fourth book you've got to see an effect of your decision).

I really feel deceived.

[YamiRaziel]

You really don't get anything at all, go backwards a page and read the longer thing I put. None of the things you say or do matter because what happens?

Clem only wants her parents, Lilly leaves regardless, Kenny will always be broken and your friend at the end of Episode three, Katjaa and Duck will always die, the brothers are obviously never seen again, Larry's dead indefinitely, Carley/Doug is dead indefinitely. Choice affects story? Maybe if you only played once and didn't try any repeats that's what YOU think. But in the end whatever "Choices" you made didn't do anything, so pay attention, quit trying to be so self-righteous and think you know everything.

You're pulling all this "someone else made the choice" out of your ass, that has nothing to do with what choice the PLAYER makes. Your entire argument is irrelevant troll

I'm not even going to bother to respond to that. I'm giving up on you. I do get what your saying, I just do not found your argument to be valid.
And no, I'm not a troll, I'm just posting in a topic you turned to war zone.

Maugly, plenty of things are different in ep.3. The NPC's attitude towards you is mirroring the way you treat them. You can't change the way Lilly interacts with the others, but you can change how she behaves to you.

I was said (I even quoted you this part) that I've got to see an effect of my decisions right in the episode I am playing
What I'm supposed to say here? You can see the effect of your decisions.
When Ben tells you he's the traitor you can either be good or hostile. I guess this will play a part in ep. 4.

[Maugly]

Exactly. You can't change the outcome of the scene outside the RV because no matter what you (Lee) do, Carley will always defend Ben and stand up to Lilly, which causes Lilly to shoot her. You can't prevent her death because she makes choices as well, and her choice is to defend Ben.

And I think you're wrong there, episode 3 doesn't always end with Kenny being your friend, don't know where you got that from.

Why do I get to make like 3 choices during that conversation? For the game to show me my choices does not always affect an outcome? But well, that's directly contradict their advertisement...

[MichaCHOW]

I'm not even going to bother to respond to that. I'm giving up on you. I do get what your saying, I just do not found your argument to be valid.
And no, I'm not a troll, I'm just posting in a topic you turned to war zone.



Your argument has no validation in choices. It literally makes no sense where you came up with your argument. Like I said before, no one said anything about not being able to make choices, it's the effect. (Oh wait there is none because it's always the same result)

You're the one provoking it calling everyone pathetic in generalization and saying "struck a nerve?" It's a double-fault so don't act like it's all on me.

[Viser]

Why do I get to make like 3 choices during that conversation? For the game to show me my choices does not always affect an outcome? But well, that's directly contradict their advertisement...

In order to affect how Ben and the group perceive you. Like, would you be willing to kick Ben out of the group based on suspicion, or would you like to analyze the situation better, or maybe you thought Ben was guilty, but deserved a second chance?

And we know that people's perception of Lee affects the way they treat him. So yeah, I'd say it matters.

That's what I'm thinking, at least.

[MichaCHOW]

In order to affect how Ben and the group perceive you. Like, would you be willing to kick Ben out of the group based on suspicion, or would you like to analyze the situation better, or maybe you thought Ben was guilty, but deserved a second chance?

And we know that people's perception of Lee affects the way they treat him. So yeah, I'd say it matters.

That's what I'm thinking, at least.

It doesn't affect how they percieve you if they're all dead and Ben ends up admitting the truth to you whether you ask him again or not

And in the end of the episode everyone treats Lee the same. Kenny lost his family now Lee is his only friend. Christa/Omid will be pissed at Lee for saving whomever first. Nothing affects how people percieve Lee.

[Maugly]

In order to affect how Ben and the group perceive you. Like, would you be willing to kick Ben out of the group based on suspicion, or would you like to analyze the situation better, or maybe you thought Ben was guilty, but deserved a second chance?

And we know that people's perception of Lee affects the way they treat him. So yeah, I'd say it matters.

That's what I'm thinking, at least.

I don't get to kick Ben out of the group in episode 3. Did I miss something?
Please, yet again, don't start this 'in the next episode' stuff.

[YamiRaziel]

I don't get to kick Ben out of the group in episode 3. Did I miss something?
Please, yet again, don't start this 'in the next episode' stuff.

Please don't start this "I want it in this episode". It's a story divided into 5 parts. Rate a book once you've read the whole of it, not only the first 3 chapters.

[dubesor]

Mad fanboys trolls <3 just ignore and stop wasting your time tbh

As for upcoming episodes.... well after Episode 1 it had been addressed by the community and

The designers are trying really hard to make those choices matter further down the rabbit hole. I'm hoping you'll be pleased. :)

still no sings of it.

[Maugly]

Please don't start this "I want it in this episode". It's a story divided into 5 parts. Rate a book once you've read the whole of it, not only the first 3 chapters.

It's not a chapter, it's a volume. Do you rate 'The Hobbit', or just all 4 books alltogether? Do you rate 'The Vicomte de Bragelonne', or just all 3 books?

Edit: Ahhhh, do you rate StarWars as all 6 movies, or just one-by-one? :)

[Viser]

It doesn't affect how they percieve you if they're all dead and Ben ends up admitting the truth to you whether you ask him again or not

And in the end of the episode everyone treats Lee the same. Kenny lost his family now Lee is his only friend. Christa/Omid will be pissed at Lee for saving whomever first. Nothing affects how people percieve Lee.

Where do you get that Lee is Kenny's only friend? If you don't want to be his friend, you can treat him like crap, and he won't ever help you or think of you as a friend. Plus, what do you mean "They're all dead"? As far as I know, Ben, Kenny, and Clementine were also outside the RV with Lee when it all happened. And of course Omid/Christa were pissed at the moment, but do you really think they will forget you helped them?

And in the end of THIS EPISODE it might seem they're treating Lee the same, but goddamit, just wait for the whole game to be out.

[MichaCHOW]

Mad fanboys trolls <3 just ignore and stop wasting your time tbh

As for upcoming episodes.... well after Episode 1 it had been addressed by the community and



still no sings of it.

Predicted release date! ...Before 2013!

[YamiRaziel]

It's not a chapter, it's a volume. Do you rate 'The Hobbit', or just all 4 books alltogether? Do you rate 'The Vicomte de Bragelonne', or just all 3 books?

I didn't get your Hobbit and 4 books altogether statement. I rate the Hobbit as a book on it's own and LOTR as a book on it's own.
The first 3 episodes are chapters/episodes of a book/tv show season. They are all part of the same story.
Season 2 will probably be another story that you can call volume 2/season 2/book 2.

[joorgen]

I think many people are just missing the point there.

It's not Carley death why people got mad at the game and TTG. It's how the game discards players' choices what got them mad. And Carley death was only a trigger. Many people were attached to Carley and when they saw her die they just tried to re-load and find different outcome... To find out that there is no choice, there is only illusion of a choice, and the game advertisement, is, uhm, fake.

For me it didn't really trigger until my second playtrough, I was sitting there thinking meh oh well she died that's life.
Then I saved doug thinking lets see if there is any functional difference at all in the story, and there literally is no difference except you get from doug a mechanism that lets you hear the st john brothers quicker and stuff (not usefull at all) and from Carley you get the option of telling people you are a killer.
Other than that they are 100% functionally the same, Carley comes with a gun and shoots at he St. johns and Doug aims a fucking lazer pointer at them ending in the same exact thing. Keep in mind that is literally the only time we see them other than the option to talk to them during the food handout.
During ep 3 the only difference is one makes you fucking want to murder Lilly and the other makes you just sit there going she is insane and is not coming with us.

What I sit with now is the thought that literally everything I did with those characters had no meaning and the only right way to act is agreeing with Kenny on everything or acting 100% illogically too maintain Clementines sanity.

I thought this game was suposed to test how able I would be to survive the zombie appocalypse with its choices, but so far it hasn't at all. I mean technically not taking the food from that one car would be a death sentence but either way we got the food so why not just be the pussy of the bunch too be the only one trying to keep Clementine sane.

Might not have made much sense since I am not at all a master at the english language, it is not my native tongue at all.

[Maugly]

I didn't get your Hobbit and 4 books altogether statement. I rate the Hobbit as a book on it's own and LOTR as a book on it's own.
The first 3 episodes are chapters/episodes of a book/tv show season. They are all part of the same story.
Season 2 will probably be another story that you can call volume 2/season 2/book 2.

No they're not. They volumes, since I can buy them on their own. I don't remember chapters being sold on their own, not happening out there, sir, no can do.
And to get out of useless conversation. FAQ directly states we'll got an effect of our decisions in this very episode. Please name me 4 my decisions which affected this very episode.

[MichaCHOW]

Where do you get that Lee is Kenny's only friend? If you don't want to be his friend, you can treat him like crap, and he won't ever help you or think of you as a friend. Plus, what do you mean "They're all dead"? As far as I know, Ben, Kenny, and Clementine were also outside the RV with Lee when it all happened. And of course Omid/Christa were pissed at the moment, but do you really think they will forget you helped them?

And in the end of THIS EPISODE it might seem they're treating Lee the same, but goddamit, just wait for the whole game to be out.

Kenny turns from Episode 1 nice guy to Episode 2 jackass to Episode 3 broken man who lost a family and only has Lee to talk to him. You're forced to talk to Kenny no matter what anyway -.-

Ben literally has nothing relevant to say, and has been just a scapegoat used to kill off characters so three new ones will be introduced.

For three episodes it's been the same thing. This is a present-time issue. Not a future, "oh well wait for the next one". I wouldn't doubt on them treating Lee the same for the rest of this. Cycles don't just break.

[Viser]

Kenny turns from Episode 1 nice guy to Episode 2 jackass to Episode 3 broken man who lost a family and only has Lee to talk to him. You're forced to talk to Kenny no matter what anyway -.-

Ben literally has nothing relevant to say, and has been just a scapegoat used to kill off characters so three new ones will be introduced.

For three episodes it's been the same thing. This is a present-time issue. Not a future, "oh well wait for the next one". I wouldn't doubt on them treating Lee the same for the rest of this. Cycles don't just break.

You're still wrong on the Kenny thing. If you side with him on episode 2 he's far from being a jackass to Lee. And yes, Lee's the only one he can talk to, still doesn't mean you need to treat him nicely.

Ben has nothing to say because he's only been there for some time. Characters like Kenny, Lilly and Carley have been present for 3 full episodes, a timespan of 3 months, while we can only talk to Ben after we get to camp on episode 2 and some more on episode 3.

And this is a present-time issue for a game that hasn't even been fully released yet? Geez. But I think it's kinda useless to be discussing this. You're not gonna change the way I see things and I'm not gonna change the way you see things.

[YamiRaziel]

No they're not. They volumes, since I can buy them on their own. I don't remember chapters being sold on their own, not happening out there, sir, no can do.
And to get out of useless conversation. FAQ directly states we'll got an effect of our decisions in this very episode. Please name me 4 my decisions which affected this very episode.

Chapters can be published one at a time in newspapers and magazines. Fan fiction authors also published chapters one at a time, but that doesn't mean they are complete on their own.
If episode 3 was as standalone game you wouldn't need your save files in order to continue.

"Please name me 4 my decisions which affected this very episode."
Now you're just wasting my time. There are plenty of examples on this board. Do some digging.
I really do not get the point of your outcry. If you dislike the game so much, stop playing it! Is the idea to make us enjoy it less just because you apparently don't?

[Maugly]

Chapters can be published one at a time in newspapers and magazines. Fan fiction authors also published chapters one at a time, but that doesn't mean they are complete on their own.
If episode 3 was as standalone game you wouldn't need your save files in order to continue.

You don't get to pay for a chapter, you pay for the magazine, that's some difference.
And, uhm, well, forgive me my rudeness, but you really start to sound like your avatar. I hope you're not going to go shooting spree eventually?

[YamiRaziel]

You don't get to pay for a chapter, you pay for the magazine, that's some difference.
And, uhm, well, forgive me my rudeness, but you really start to sound like your avatar. I hope you're not going to go shooting spree eventually?

Nobody forced you to buy it 1 chapter at a time. You could've waited for the full game release. It was your choice to buy it that way... why complain now?

[Aldaron]

To me stating that Telltale lied and false advertised their game because some people want to have God given powers and other feel bad for not being able to bone a certain character in the game is not something I'm gonna take as mature attitude.

Aldaron, it does say more about me? You know that I did check your thread and I found 3 pages of arguments how the game could've been better if it had more sex.

I don't know about the others but I didn't said that they lied. I wish it had more choice, I wish it had sex and relationships, I wish it was more realistic and closer to the original source. But it's still a great game.

And I didn't wrote those 3 pages, my first post had several concerns, people (like you) became fixated on sex. Not only that, but you and a couple of others felt so strongly about it that insulted me and became openly hostile without any reason at all. It certainly speaks more of your character than mine.

And when I say "sex" I don't mean "sex scenes" or "sex mini-games".

--------------------------

Carleys dead didn't bother me, but like MichaCHOW what did bother me is that the dialogue options were irrelevant, nothing we did up to that point mattered at all. Worse is the fact that you can decide on the outcome of Lily killing Carley. You HAVE to let her go. She has to escape and that sucks.

The Ben situation is the same. You can't kill him, beat him, kick him out or even tell or him. You either forgive him or are mad at him but that's it. Nothing you do really matters.

I get that some things are other characters decisions (like Carleys death) but where are MY decisions? Lee decisions are nowhere to be found, there's barely any consecuence to them.

[Maugly]

I get that some thing are other characters decisions (like Carleys death) but where are MY decisions? Lee decisions are nowhere to be found, there's barely any consecuence to them.

Don't worry, in season 137, episode 95 you've got to see an effect of all your decisions you've made that far :)

[SupahFly]

I get that some thing are other characters decisions (like Carleys death) but where are MY decisions? Lee decisions are nowhere to be found, there's barely any consecuence to them.

Oh, don't mention such things it's a blasphemy for some people. It doesn't matter how hard you try to explain them that you are disappointed not because some woman has died neither because you didn't get God powers but because you just want to see something different at the end which is a consequence of your own actions they won't believe it.

[the zombie flanders]

haven't read through this whole thread, so apologies if this has been said before. (and let me preface by saying I'm enjoying the game thoroughly and look forward to eps 4 & 5)

I'd have to agree with those 'complaining' about the illusion of choice. As of the end of ep3, the only real decisions from 1 & 2 that would seem to have any impact in the next two are: did you back Kenny or Lilly (if Kenny, he'll have a positive/helpful part next episode; if Lilly, he won't); and how have your decisions impacted Clem.

perhaps I was hoping for the impossible with this game, as it claimed that 'your decisions impact the outcome'; so maybe I read too much into that as more of those old "choose your own adventure" books, where if I chose the path to page 52 instead of page 67, the outcome was drastically different.

In that line of thinking, here's my 2 cents/suggestion to the programmers/writers for the next installment: Make it *exactly* like a choose your own adventure book in this way, and I'll use the Kenny/Lilly motel power struggle as an example. You choose to back Kenny and say the group should go. Lilly refuses and decides to stay. Kenny & family/Lee/Clem/Ben all get in the RV and leave, Carly/Doug decides to stay with Lilly as she/he doesn't feel it's right to leave her alone - the rest of that path continues as played out (minus the Lilly/Carly-Doug incident on the road). Choice 2: You back Lilly. Kenny curses you for never backing him up, loads up his family in the RV (maybe Ben goes too), leaving you, Clem, Lilly and Carly/Doug at the motel. The episode plays out with the assault by the bandits/walkers. You/your group kill a lot of bandits and walkers, but run out of ammo and are eventually overrun - end of game (you don't get to play ep 4 or 5 in that decision path). Like the adventure books, sometimes your story ends within one or two choices/50 pages, versus lasting for countless choices/100s of pages.

Might suck when you get to that point and realize your game is over without getting to the next episode, but that's incentive to replay and find a better path to get to it.

[Maugly]

In that line of thinking, here's my 2 cents/suggestion to the programmers/writers for the next installment: Make it *exactly* like a choose your own adventure book in this way

I think this ain't gonna happen, because probably not only ep.4, but also ep.5 has already entered the production.

[the zombie flanders]

I think this ain't gonna happen, because probably not only ep.4, but also ep.5 has already entered the production.


I meant next installment as the part 2/next set of 5 episodes. I don't see the current style changing for the last 2 episodes of part 1.

[EternallyBored]

haven't read through this whole thread, so apologies if this has been said before. (and let me preface by saying I'm enjoying the game thoroughly and look forward to eps 4 & 5)

I'd have to agree with those 'complaining' about the illusion of choice. As of the end of ep3, the only real decisions from 1 & 2 that would seem to have any impact in the next two are: did you back Kenny or Lilly (if Kenny, he'll have a positive/helpful part next episode; if Lilly, he won't); and how have your decisions impacted Clem.

perhaps I was hoping for the impossible with this game, as it claimed that 'your decisions impact the outcome'; so maybe I read too much into that as more of those old "choose your own adventure" books, where if I chose the path to page 52 instead of page 67, the outcome was drastically different.

In that line of thinking, here's my 2 cents/suggestion to the programmers/writers for the next installment: Make it *exactly* like a choose your own adventure book in this way, and I'll use the Kenny/Lilly motel power struggle as an example. You choose to back Kenny and say the group should go. Lilly refuses and decides to stay. Kenny & family/Lee/Clem/Ben all get in the RV and leave, Carly/Doug decides to stay with Lilly as she/he doesn't feel it's right to leave her alone - the rest of that path continues as played out (minus the Lilly/Carly-Doug incident on the road). Choice 2: You back Lilly. Kenny curses you for never backing him up, loads up his family in the RV (maybe Ben goes too), leaving you, Clem, Lilly and Carly/Doug at the motel. The episode plays out with the assault by the bandits/walkers. You/your group kill a lot of bandits and walkers, but run out of ammo and are eventually overrun - end of game (you don't get to play ep 4 or 5 in that decision path). Like the adventure books, sometimes your story ends within one or two choices/50 pages, versus lasting for countless choices/100s of pages.

Might suck when you get to that point and realize your game is over without getting to the next episode, but that's incentive to replay and find a better path to get to it.

This is what I was expecting when I bought the season pass a few weeks ago, because that was how it was marketed. If you don't like people stating the obvious and being upset that they were lied to, fine. But doing TTG job for them by arguing with those that were mislead accomplishes what? Other than providing people like me entertainment fighting a war that you will never, ever, win- you accomplished nothing.

If anything all the people who are voicing legitimate complaints should be thanked, because if TTG gives an F they'll make chapter 4 monumental to make up for the crap they gave us in chapter 3.

[bubbledncr]

I thought this game was suposed to test how able I would be to survive the zombie appocalypse with its choices, but so far it hasn't at all. I mean technically not taking the food from that one car would be a death sentence but either way we got the food so why not just be the pussy of the bunch too be the only one trying to keep Clementine sane.

If we were testing how you were able to survive a zombie apocalypse, that would mean that in every moment you were presented a choice, that there is a right and wrong choice. What would we base that on? What's morally right, or best for survival? But you'll find people won't even agree on what's "morally correct" a lot of the time, because everyone has their own set of morals.

[Aldaron]

If we were testing how you were able to survive a zombie apocalypse, that would mean that in every moment you were presented a choice, that there is a right and wrong choice. What would we base that on? What's morally right, or best for survival? But you'll find people won't even agree on what's "morally correct" a lot of the time, because everyone has their own set of morals.

That's not what bothers me. I don't mind that there's not a right choice, my problem is that I have few choices and most of them are pointless, they don't affect what happens in any way.

[joorgen]

That's not what bothers me. I don't mind that there's not a right choice, my problem is that I have few choices and most of them are pointless, they don't affect what happens in any way.

more accurate to what I wanted to say =P I choose to take the food in the car, I get food. I choose to not take the food in the car I still get food.

Also I am happy that you didn't go the troll method there telltale man, I was half expecting a sarcastic remark at how I am a gamer so I would be dead no matter what XD

I do agree that it is good that there is no rights or wrongs, but I wanted to feel the consequences more heavily than I felt I did.
The time I chose not to take the food I wanted to see a real heavy impact sorta like the others chose to take alot less food and only bare necesities instead at that time. Then maybe seeing the desperation you'd end up with.

I dunno. I am not saying your jobs are easy because it sure as hell isn't, but I
just know that it feels like less than what I was promised. Good story though but yeah =P

[malcom155]

You don't want choices, you want to be Gods. Well, you are weak whining humans both in the game and RL apparently. Get over it.

Do you know what choice is? Choice is whether to be good or bad to a little girl who's parents are probably dead.
Saving everybody from certain death is your latent dream of being more than you are. You want to be heroes you're not in RL and because you can't be, you start crying that the game doesn't allow you to make choices.
This is pathetic, honestly!

No it's not that and you already know it. We have already discuss this subject numerous time, i don't want to be a god, i just want to see one of my decisions lasting. I've yet to see one... Doug/Carley are dead...
And how can we be bad with clem ??? Don't give her hat ? (woooo i'm evil !!!) not checked her finger (aaah i'm a hangman !!!). You know what the majority mean by impact.

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel View Post
Maugly, choice and result are two different things. You can try to save her or not. That's choice.
Her death is the RESULT of somebody else's choice.

Yes but it's not this person who buy the game, it's me and this person say: your choices will lasting... I just want to have an impact, it's not the same to be a god right ?( and what is this argument ??? We are speaking about the players choice, not "choices" made by a bunch of pixel, this is not choices, this is programmation, Lilly can't make choice)

Again, i don't thinks a simple change of dialogue can improves an important thing in any game: replayability. By now, all i see is the same story, no matter the side, no matter the dialogue, it's always the same outcome. So TWD is a good interactive comic sold 25 dollars, it's not cheap for a comic...

@viser yes it's only the third, but what is the point to play the first three if the outcome are always the same ? Do you really thing you will see lee dying in 4 or 5 episode because off a choice made in the second ? i don't think so... It 'll be a little change, like the hoodie, an equipment at best, a living or dead sub character (like ben, who have nothing to say, to do... and he will die seconds after). Nothing important. I may be wrong, i wish i'm wrong... Again, replayability is smashed...

now a question :
Do you really thing the second season will have success the same success as the first ?
My answers is no. Look at the steam succes page of the game, Tellatale lost a lot of players (really... last time i cheked more than 80%, it's really a lot for a middle chapter !!!) So, do you think the base of players is satisfied ? I don't speak about fan (after all this word came from fanatics) but of the lambda player, mister and miss everybody.
Look at the steam forum and you will have your answers... and the number of player everyday, the max i see was 1.250 worldwide (on pc), obscures games that we never heard of are doing better. It's few, really few. Look at others forums, it's always the same thing: choices don't matters. And don't forget bad mouth to ear is bad for a game, worse than a good review of IGN (lol).

But i think tellatale already know that fact.
I'll just wait for chapter 4, after all i've a season pass, but don't count on me for the second, i've already said to my friends to wait before buying the game, just to see lasting choices... At last, on this, my choice matter no ?
If they want to play they can on my steam account, so they don't have to buy it.

edit: @Aldaron, you'd made a great post !

[_Grey_]

Someone on IGN said this and I agree completely:

Here's my problem with the way the game is now going (SPOILERS)... I also replayed it several times to try to save Carly, and there was no way. And I left Lilly behind. I have 2 games going-- one where I'm heroic and trying to make the right choices, hard as they may be. Then I have a second playthrough where I make all of the completely opposite choices, because I wanted to see the other side of the game. They're both turning out to be exactly the same. It doesn't matter which character you chose to save in Episode 1, Carly or Doug. Whichever one was left gets killed this episode, and there's no way to save them. Then, even if you choose to bring Lilly with you, she steals the RV immediately upon finding the train, and she's gone. All of the seeming choices the game is offering are purely cosmetic in the most superficial sense. None of the choices we're making really change the outcome of the game in any way. Now, Walking Dead is still a fun game to play, and it's still pretty to look at. But as I was playing Episodes 1-2, I was ready to give the game a 9-10. Now playing Episode 3, and having it revealed how superficial all of the choices we can make are, and what little effect they actually have on the predetermined narrative, I'm rating the game probably about a 7.0. I understand that it might have been difficult to truly incorporate the different choices. It would have meant making a bigger game, where you don't see everything on one playthough. It would have been like one of those old Choose-Your-Own-Adventure books where you have to keep going back to reread it to see how the other choices play out and to be able to see all of the story. But that was also the main selling point of the game, the gimmick that we were playing it for. That we could make tough choices that would have a real effect on the narrative. This is why people are excited to play it, and where the replay value would be. But as the episodes go on, to see that this selling hook is really all lip service and that it doesn't have much tangible effect on the outcome of the game... well then the game is nothing other than a narrative story. The choices dress it up to make it look like we play some part, and to emotionally involve us in the narrative, but as this streamlining continues, and as more and more players realize that our choices do not really effect the narrative of the game, everyone is going to be much less enamored of a game that actually does not involve them in any way, and they will probably feel much less connected to it than they currently are. Let's just say I've become incredibly disappointed in a game that I was initially extremely excited about.

[Xarne]

*Wall of Text crits you for 1,000,000 points. You die.*
Restart <Y/N>?

tldr;

[malcom155]

@Grey: Your post summarize the vast majority off critics on the web...

I'm at the same state...
All the results are always the same, what you do, wht you say, what you choose don't matter.

@Ramiraziel (and others): what would be your answer to the post of Grey ?
(if i would be ironic, i would say: Lilly, a NPC, CHOOSE to kill another NPC, at last her choice tailor the story unlike mine...)

@Xarn : my commentary will be really constructive :LOL ^^

[bubbledncr]

more accurate to what I wanted to say =P I choose to take the food in the car, I get food. I choose to not take the food in the car I still get food.

Also I am happy that you didn't go the troll method there telltale man, I was half expecting a sarcastic remark at how I am a gamer so I would be dead no matter what XD

I do agree that it is good that there is no rights or wrongs, but I wanted to feel the consequences more heavily than I felt I did.
The time I chose not to take the food I wanted to see a real heavy impact sorta like the others chose to take alot less food and only bare necesities instead at that time. Then maybe seeing the desperation you'd end up with.

I dunno. I am not saying your jobs are easy because it sure as hell isn't, but I
just know that it feels like less than what I was promised. Good story though but yeah =P

I understand where you come from - I myself am a gamer whose favorite games are RPG's where my choices affect the story.

Without wanting to spoil the Mass Effect series, I spent years looking forward to and theorizing what all the outcomes of my decisions in ME1 and ME2 would have - only to find out that the things I thought were big choices and thought would help me out/screw me over, actually had no effect at all.

And while I understand as a gamer how disappointing that is, I also understand as a developer how hard it is to make a game that rewards you for certain choices. Not only how much more expensive it is from a production standpoint, but also because rewarding people for certain choices implies that those are the correct choices, which isn't something you want to do in a game about making tough choices. But we do keep track of every choice you make, and it does affect what the other characters think of you.

I would say, as someone who knows what's coming, to wait until the end of the series to complain about whether or not your choices had any meaning. If you still don't think they did, we'd love to hear why, and suggestions for improvement. But just like the zombie apocalypse, bad things will always happen, despite your best efforts.

[Marleysativa]

I would say, as someone who knows what's coming, to wait until the end of the series to complain about whether or not your choices had any meaning. If you still don't think they did, we'd love to hear why, and suggestions for improvement. But just like the zombie apocalypse, bad things will always happen, despite your best efforts.

Now I'm extremely excited. Thanks for staying true to the tone of the comics!

[Sentient Orange]

One lasting consequence? So you're suggesting that Lee, Kenny, and the player all have Alzheimer.


Yup, they might as well have alzheimer's. None of the decisions so far have done anything other than very slightly changed a scene or altered a little bit of dialogue, mostly with kenny.

Saved duck or shaun? Doesn't change anything, kenny forgets it immediately afterwards and only brings this back up again near the end of episode 3, by which time you'll have probably have forgotten who he's even talking about.

Saved carley or doug? doesn't change anything much, they both die in almost exactly the same way at the same location in the same time basically.

Gave the gun to the girl in the motor inn? doesn't matter because there's nobody left apart from lee who even remembers that, and he won't even tell anybody about it now most likely.

Shot the girl at the start of episode 3? SPOILER WARNIoh wait it doesn't matter because the amount of supplies you collect doesn't matter and you have infinite ammo anyway.

A LOT of the dialogue in this game stays the same unless you specifically decide to be as friendly or as mean as possible, there's not really any middle ground.
Everything in Heavy Rain happens in a linear fashion too. The only stuff that changes is whether your characters are alive or not at the end. That's probably going to be the same in this game, too. Only the last handful of survivors can survive or die based on your actions.

How are the billion pointless decisions in Heavy Rain are different from the hundreds in Walking Dead? Fail the driving portion, you still get the next clue. Don't gather clues? You still can find the solution. Someone dies? The story still continues through the same mystery.


The choices in heavy rain at least affect how the endings are (and i think that if a character dies halfway through, then the other characters might act differently or talk differently, i don't remember now).
The way it's looking in TWD, your choices probably won't even affect the ending.


There's choices in every game. You can choose whether you'll shoot an enemy or not, you choose if you pick something up or go in a secret area. You choose where you walk, or if you play the game at all.

The difference is that this game specifically advertised CHOICES, which to most people would mean that the choices you pick in the game actually hold some more significance than usual games..

Also, i didn't really care about carely, so the reason that a lot of people are complaining about this isn't because they wanted a virtual girlfriend (there's dating sims for that), i didn't care about "having sex" with her or whatever, i just didn't like the way she died.

She just fell to the ground, people cared more that lilly shot her rather than carley actually being dead. A better way to dispose of her character would have been something more emotional, such as her having her guts ripped out by a zombie but still being alive for a few seconds, and you have the option of killing her or leaving her to bleed out. That's an emotional scene.

[malcom155]

@bubbledncr: can you just explain a little please, you said:

"Not only how much more expensive it is from a production standpoint, but also because rewarding people for certain choices implies that those are the correct choices, which isn't something you want to do in a game about making tough choices."

How can't be wrong choices if their are tough ? How can the choices can meaning (and if i use the advertissment : lasting) if their can't be wrong ? At best, they'll "change" dialogue, custscene but not tailor the story herself, it will always you're in A, go in B ('like ep3) without any chance to change anything and the final state will always be the same ('same survivor, same state, same equipment etc...)
Thanks for your attention.

[Marleysativa]

@bubbledncr: can you just explain a little please, you said:

"Not only how much more expensive it is from a production standpoint, but also because rewarding people for certain choices implies that those are the correct choices, which isn't something you want to do in a game about making tough choices."

How can't be wrong choices if their are tough ? How can the choices can meaning (and if i use the advertissment : lasting) if their can't be wrong ? At best, they'll "change" dialogue, custscene but not tailor the story herself, it will always you're in A, go in B ('like ep3) and the final state will always be the same ('same survivor, same state, same equipment etc...)
Thanks for your attention.

Aren't the cutscenes and dialogue the majority of the story?

[malcom155]

@marleysativa: choosing Carley:Doug change the story (a little but at last it do), dialogue can change (not in this game) the story. At the end of episode three can you tell me the difference in the story ('surviving character's, final state, dialogue) between your saves with differents choices ?
And what you would answer to the post of Grey please ? I'm curious....

[MichaCHOW]

How choices work: "They affect how other characters see Lee"

How characters currently see Lee: As living! They're ghosts! Except Lee can't see any of them because they're all dead! Oh the joy of living!

[dubesor]

Now I'm extremely excited. Thanks for staying true to the tone of the comics!

Don't get too excited, they promised the same at Episode 1 (see page 1 of this thread) and promised change. Now we are 60% done and nothing happened :)

[Marleysativa]

@marleysativa: choosing Carley:Doug change the story (a little but at last it do), dialogue can change (not in this game) the story. At the end of episode three can you tell me the difference in the story ('surviving character's, final state, dialogue) between your saves with differents choices ?
And what you would answer to the post of Grey please ? I'm curious....

Bear with me, I'm trying to make sure I'm understanding what you're asking so if I don't answer your question correctly, I'm sorry.

The decisions you made as the episode went along altered the episode quite a bit. Your decision regarding Lilly, how you handled the situation with Kenny's family, and your discussions with Clem. Everyone ended up at the same place but your interactions with the characters may have been much different. This isn't the final episode, we've still got two more to see how those interactions and decisions play out. It's still too early to say they have no meaning at this point.

Don't get too excited, they promised the same at Episode 1 (see page 1 of this thread) and promised change. Now we are 60% done and nothing happened

I saw them say that they were trying to make them matter further down the road (not that some don't matter now). We're only at episode 3 of 5 at the moment. I think I've just got a different opinion on what matters and what doesn't from some of you guys.

[malcom155]

@ Marleysativa i understand. For me when i play the first two episodes, i thinked the choice Carley/Doug could last until the last chapter, so this choices impact and change at last one character. I choosed who is alive and i thinked "this is great, a character change between saves". But in the third all choices are erased and you can't make any choice, you just follow the story.

We'll see, but for the 80% who left, it's too late...

[joorgen]

I understand where you come from - I myself am a gamer whose favorite games are RPG's where my choices affect the story.

Without wanting to spoil the Mass Effect series, I spent years looking forward to and theorizing what all the outcomes of my decisions in ME1 and ME2 would have - only to find out that the things I thought were big choices and thought would help me out/screw me over, actually had no effect at all.

And while I understand as a gamer how disappointing that is, I also understand as a developer how hard it is to make a game that rewards you for certain choices. Not only how much more expensive it is from a production standpoint, but also because rewarding people for certain choices implies that those are the correct choices, which isn't something you want to do in a game about making tough choices. But we do keep track of every choice you make, and it does affect what the other characters think of you.

I would say, as someone who knows what's coming, to wait until the end of the series to complain about whether or not your choices had any meaning. If you still don't think they did, we'd love to hear why, and suggestions for improvement. But just like the zombie apocalypse, bad things will always happen, despite your best efforts.

Oh I am definitely waiting for the end to cast my stones =P I do however always express my fears
Notice how I am on the fence sorta balancing back and forth between what to think and not going like GIVE MAH MONEY BACK!!

I must say the story you people at telltale have managed to make is an incredibly engrossing and interesting one. I am really looking forward to the last 2 episodes and hope I see it the same way you guys do =)

One question I might have though that I don't expect getting answeared is, is it hard to make a game and anticipate how its going to be recieved in an objective way? I mean since every developer spends alot of time they get attached to what they create and sorta lose their objective view on said product

[Marleysativa]

@ Marleysativa i understand. For me when i play the first two episodes, i thinked the choice Carley/Doug could last until the last chapter, so this choices impact and change at last one character. I choosed who is alive and i thinked "this is great, a character change between saves". But in the third all choices are erased and you can't make any choice, you just follow the story.

We'll see, but for the 80% who left, it's too late...

We can't say that all of our choices are for naught. Like I said, we've still got two episodes to play through. As for Doug/Carley, Katjaa, and Duck... this is the zombie apocalypse. People are going to die and we cannot expect to save everyone. This is the Walking Dead after all.

I'd say that 80% is a bit of an exaggeration considering the two polls posted so far, no? :p

[malcom155]

i don't speak about polls...

i speak about that '(and you'r''e right, it's not 80%, it's ONLY 72.7%):
http://steamcommunity.com/stats/TheWalkingDead/achievements

And we are only at the middle of the game...
You can keep yoour "it's the walking dead world" argument please; I don't speak about any off the characters dead, i speak about the fact that no matters what you do, you say or anything else, nothing change... You can't change nothing ! I was just giving example

Oh, forgive me, you can change what the characters think about you. Seeing this changing anything is another story

[Master of Aeons]

In any game that isn't a sandbox RPG, A and G and Q and Z are set in stone. All of the other letters you can choose if they're upper or lower case. You still go through the alphabet and might be able to do S before R, but G and Q and Z will always happen because one story is being told. If you want a game where you can do anything, you're better off playing a Choose Your Own Adventure or Skyrim.

A game where you can fully dictate the events as a god (as was just said) is not feasible at the time. We're just past the point of the illusion of choice and are getting into the idea where you can tell one story with variations (different textures based on a psychiatrist's questions, one person swapped with another, a different set of gear, or in extreme situations an alternate path). Name a game where there are fully branching paths with multiple, mutable endings and events completely independent of the story wholly exclusive to your choices where everything is truly tailored to your choices. It's not Heavy Rain. It's not Mass Effect. It's not this game. It's only available as text thus far.

You're demanding more from a genre that's barely put on training wheels. Wait for it to reach puberty before you ask why it doesn't have boobs, to use a horrible analog.

[Marleysativa]

i don't speak about polls...

i speak about that '(and you'r''e right, it's not 80%, it's ONLY 72.7%):
http://steamcommunity.com/stats/TheWalkingDead/achievements

And we are only at the middle of the game...
You can keep yoour "it's the walking dead world" argument please; I don't speak about any off the characters dead, i speak about the fact that no matters what you do, you say or anything else, nothing change... You can't change nothing ! I was just giving example

Oh, forgive me, you can change what the characters think about you. Seeing this changing anything is another story

There was almost the same decrease in people that completed those achievements between each episode (not to mention it doesn't take into account the Xbox360 users or the PS3). I'm talking about the polls on this site.

If you don't want me to use the "it's the Walking Dead" argument, don't bring up not having a say in other characters' deaths. I've already explained what I mean by decisions and choices. I spent the time to try and figure out what you were saying, the least you could do is do the same. I've given you examples of differences in character interactions and dialogues. So, while all players end up in generally the same place, the interactions and some events could be quite varied from others.

You're literally expecting AAA title features in an indie developed 30 dollar game.

[TheWildcard]

I'm sorry but I find it extremely funny how people are grasping at strays trying to prove that your choices have mattered so far. Especially when a telltale team member pretty much said that yeah so far things don't seem to have an impact....Seriously, wake up guys.

[MichaCHOW]

I'm sorry but I find it extremely funny how people are grasping at strays trying to prove that your choices have mattered so far. Especially when a telltale team member pretty much said that yeah so far things don't seem to have an impact....Seriously, wake up guys.

^ This!

[Marleysativa]

I'm sorry but I find it extremely funny how people are grasping at strays trying to prove that your choices have mattered so far. Especially when a telltale team member pretty much said that yeah so far things don't seem to have an impact....Seriously, wake up guys.

Where did a team member say that? Also, why not address the points of some of the other posts in the thread instead of throwing another useless post into the mix?

[Xarne]

Where did a team member say that? Also, why not address the points of some of the other posts in the thread instead of throwing another useless post into the mix?

Its on the internet dude, so it must be true!

[Marleysativa]

Its on the internet dude, so it must be true!

I know, I should know better. That book has been pretty awesome so far, btw. Almost halfway through WWZ.

[dankirk]

To me, this game is an interactive movie. I play it not to try to beat it, but because I enjoy the story. Sure it's linear, but so are movies, and books. It's very cool that the things I say or the choices I make will affect the story. But, I don't expect to rewrite the story.

Play the game for the story. It is a very emotional, heart-breaking experience. If you're playing to win, you've picked the wrong game.

[Xarne]

I know, I should know better. That book has been pretty awesome so far, btw. Almost halfway through WWZ.

isnt it? Im just about halfway; some of those stories are freakin awesome
Like the Battle of Yonkers; and Redeker's story; and televised celebrity fort?
Much more realistic battles and just reading about the breakdown of power and communication and the building chaos...ya really good stuff

[malcom155]

@masterofaeons: search Sandmole (or sandstorm, i don't remember lol) posts, you will se what i mean
@dankirk yep but it's not the game who as be advertissed and talke in playing dead.
@Marleysativa: i don't speak about poll because only a handful of players came here, on steam every pc player is counted. For "it's TWD world" argument, i was just giving example...

For the succes page, it's important to take note that TWD succes are the story, more you advance in it, more the succes are unblocked. You have nothing to do to have beside play the game. Now, 72% of the owner of the game don't finish the chapter 3. We are only at the middle of the game.
A game is finish by 40% on average. TWD is only at 28% in the middle of the game. Wooo great succes ! How it's promising for the second season !!!!

@Xarne Its on the internet dude, so it must be true!
No just one page before... Our choice change what the other characters think of Lee... But no how the act and the result ! The chapter 3 show us that. So, by now, no choice matter and we are all at the same point.


I understand where you come from - I myself am a gamer whose favorite games are RPG's where my choices affect the story.

Without wanting to spoil the Mass Effect series, I spent years looking forward to and theorizing what all the outcomes of my decisions in ME1 and ME2 would have - only to find out that the things I thought were big choices and thought would help me out/screw me over, actually had no effect at all.

And while I understand as a gamer how disappointing that is, I also understand as a developer how hard it is to make a game that rewards you for certain choices. Not only how much more expensive it is from a production standpoint, but also because rewarding people for certain choices implies that those are the correct choices, which isn't something you want to do in a game about making tough choices. But we do keep track of every choice you make, and it does affect what the other characters think of you.

I would say, as someone who knows what's coming, to wait until the end of the series to complain about whether or not choices had any meaning. If you still don't think they did, we'd love to hear why, and suggestions for improvement. But just like the zombie apocalypse, bad things will always happen, despite your best efforts.

You see, by now, their is no consequences, the choices only change what the others thinks of you. I find amusing the ME reference, because they're doing the same thing... No consequences, no bad choices and when you can't do anything to save anybody apart Doug/Carley in ep1; Mark, Darley/Doug, Duck, Larry,Katjaa, Shawn: it's zombie apocalypse, badthing happen ! I agree but this is an easy excuse.

So yeah, you, yamiraziel, Red panda and a bunch of others are right, and the majority of critics are wrong. The choices matter, at last for you, but not for the 72% who have already dropped. If i follow you, the advertisment of the game and playing dead never say "the players choice will affect the story with lasting effect", they'd always said TWD will be a point and click adventure with a good story. It's scandalous that me and others guys on the net ask why we was advertissed ! It's an outrage ! We can't have sex with Carley (it's ironic) ! It's TWD world !

It's a choice made by Tella tale, i'm curious to see the lasting effect...

[YamiRaziel]

malcom155, I'm sorry, bro, but you've been on repeat for far too long. I'm no longer interested in reading your comments.
My final words to you are: If you dislike this game that strongly, stop playing it. If not, try focusing on the stuff you like.

To all the rest, you might check this thread... It was posted on TWD's facebook page and it's quite good actually - http://www.giantbomb.com/news/the-walking-deads-faces-of-death-part-1/4335/

[Master of Aeons]

@masterofaeons: search Sandmole (or sandstorm, i don't remember lol) posts, you will se what i mean


Uh, no. You wanna argue with me, put on your pants and use your words.

[Marleysativa]

malcom155, I'm sorry, bro, but you've been on repeat for far too long. I'm no longer interested in reading your comments.
My final words to you are: If you dislike this game that strongly, stop playing it. If not, try focusing on the stuff you like.

To all the rest, you might check this thread... It was posted on TWD's facebook page and it's quite good actually - http://www.giantbomb.com/news/the-walking-deads-faces-of-death-part-1/4335/

Yeah, felt like I was talking to a wall. I guess it's a language barrier kinda thing.

That article was pretty interesting, thanks for that. I checked out the first two but couldn't find one for Episode 3 yet. Hopefully they'll have one up soon, that or I'm blind.

[Xarne]

Uh, no. You wanna argue with me, put on your pants and use your words.

I prefer arguing in my underwear actually, very empowering

[bghjkl]

If we were testing how you were able to survive a zombie apocalypse, that would mean that in every moment you were presented a choice, that there is a right and wrong choice. What would we base that on? What's morally right, or best for survival? But you'll find people won't even agree on what's "morally correct" a lot of the time, because everyone has their own set of morals.

Firstly, there totally are right and wrong choices in place in the game right now. For example, saving duck is the right choice in the duck/shawn thing because you never see hershel again to praise you for trying, but kenny is still with you remembering your decision.

Secondly, I don't think the true essence of what's upsetting everyone is being captured. The choices, the way they play out both ways sort of make sense if you really put yourself in lee's shoes and overthink it, but also happen very very conveniently in a way that keeps you guys from writing an additional story arc in (a lot of accidental shootings to this effect such as travis and doug). When you pair this with the "tailored gameplay" marketing, you're going to have some upset gamers.

Thirdly, I can attest to the fact that I thought I'd be surviving the zombie apocalypse my way, and I expected my decisions to lead me to different locations, encountering different scenarios for me to have to make choices, having varied group members, encountering different kinds of living foes, etc depending how I played and was disappointed when my 3 radically different playthroughs yielded every single event being exactly the same.

If episodes 4 deviates from this I'll be truly surprised.

[YamiRaziel]

Firstly, there totally are right and wrong choices in place in the game right now. For example, saving duck is the right choice in the duck/shawn thing because you never see hershel again to praise you for trying, but kenny is still with you remembering your decision.

Secondly, I don't think the true essence of what's upsetting everyone is being captured. The choices, the way they play out both ways sort of make sense if you really put yourself in lee's shoes and overthink it, but also happen very very conveniently in a way that keeps you guys from writing an additional story arc in (a lot of accidental shootings to this effect such as travis and doug). When you pair this with the "tailored gameplay" marketing, you're going to have some upset gamers.

Thirdly, I can attest to the fact that I thought I'd be surviving the zombie apocalypse my way, and I expected my decisions to lead me to different locations, encountering different scenarios for me to have to make choices, having varied group members, encountering different kinds of living foes, etc depending how I played and was disappointed when my 3 radically different playthroughs yielded every single event being exactly the same.

If episodes 4 deviates from this I'll be truly surprised.

First of all, horrible example. There's no right and wrong in this scene. You might see it as right to save Duck, because he's a kid, but on the other hand it is smarter to save Shawn cause he's a grown man and can help you defend Clem. You can also go with whoever you like more, so no, there's no right and wrong choice!

Secondly and thirdly, I'm glad your horrible vision of the game wasn't realized. I don't know how much experience you have with games and RPGs in particular but your vision would end up with a mediocre RPG with plenty of boring characters who nobody cares about. The story telling would suffer immensely from it as well.
I'm really happy with the unique experience Telltale had offered me so far. I have few complains here and there but since I haven't seen the entire story (full season 1) I'm not even going to mention them. Even if I did know the entire story, I'm sure those small things would be irrelevant.

[thestalkinghead]

First of all, horrible example. There's no right and wrong in this scene. You might see it as right to save Duck, because he's a kid, but on the other hand it is smarter to save Shawn cause he's a grown man and can help you defend Clem. You can also go with whoever you like more, so no, there's no right and wrong choice!

Secondly and thirdly, I'm glad your horrible vision of the game wasn't realized. I don't know how much experience you have with games and RPGs in particular but your vision would end up with a mediocre RPG with plenty of boring characters who nobody cares about. The story telling would suffer immensely from it as well.
I'm really happy with the unique experience Telltale had offered me so far. I have few complains here and there but since I haven't seen the entire story (full season 1) I'm not even going to mention them. Even if I did know the entire story, I'm sure those small things would be irrelevant.

from a replay perspective the duck/shawn choice is one with only one good choice, unless you just hated kenny and wanted to mess with him, saving the life of the only you can save is obviously the best choice.

[YamiRaziel]

from a replay perspective the duck/shawn choice is one with only one good choice, unless you just hated kenny and wanted to mess with him, saving the life of the only you can save is obviously the best choice.

Who cares about replays? I have replayed it more than 3 times now but I'm trying not to motivate my choices by my knowledge of what's to come.

[thestalkinghead]

Who cares about replays? I have replayed it more than 3 times now but I'm trying not to motivate my choices by my knowledge of what's to come.

well, i care about replays, and so does just about everybody who had complaints about the game being the same no matter what you do, else how could they know it was the same?

don't get me wrong, i try and put my mind in a place that doesn't know the future when i replay it, and play the role of a lee with his own motivations, but the duck/shawn "choice" is hard to ignore

[bghjkl]

First of all, horrible example. There's no right and wrong in this scene. You might see it as right to save Duck, because he's a kid, but on the other hand it is smarter to save Shawn cause he's a grown man and can help you defend Clem. You can also go with whoever you like more, so no, there's no right and wrong choice!

Did you not read my whole paragraph? I didn't even talk about the choice itself but its impact it had on the rest of the game. Choosing duck is the "right" choice because it gives you +Kenny instead of +Herschel where Kenny is going to be with you for at least 2 more episodes and you'll never see herschel again.

For another example, picking Carly is the "right" choice because if you pick her you get the option to tell people about your past in ep.3, which you don't get to do with doug. Doug has no advantages from a GAMEPLAY perspective.

[YamiRaziel]

Did you not read my whole paragraph? I didn't even talk about the choice itself but its impact it had on the rest of the game. Choosing duck is the "right" choice because it gives you +Kenny instead of +Herschel where Kenny is going to be with you for at least 2 more episodes and you'll never see herschel again.

For another example, picking Carly is the "right" choice because if you pick her you get the option to tell people about your past in ep.3, which you don't get to do with doug. Doug has no advantages from a GAMEPLAY perspective.

... whatever.

[Cyreen]

I prefer arguing in my underwear actually, very empowering

That's disconcerting.

[Master of Aeons]

That's disconcerting.

And the My Little Pony print is distracting.