The Silver Lining thread [Archive] - Telltale Games Forums

Mike Haley

12/29/2008, 12:31 pm

Nobody else has posted this, so...

It looks like The Silver Lining (http://www.tsl-game.com) (formerly known as King's Quest IX: Every Cloak Has a Silver Lining) will finally be released in Summer 2009. That is, if Vivindi Games (now merged with Activision) doesn't sit on its royal ass during the approval process. Unfortunately, only the first two chapters of The Silver Lining will be released. The remaining chapters (3-9) will most likely never see the light of day. According to the team, it would take 10 or more years to complete them without proper funding, which even if they had, would put their fan license in jeopardy.

It would be interesting to see if they ultimately decide to release the remaining chapters one at a time over the next few years. I hear that episodic gaming is doing fairly well...

http://www.tsl-game.com/journal/special/

Now, I just wish that SQ7.org (http://www.sq7.org) would receive permission from Vivindi Games to be completed.

doom saber

12/30/2008, 02:09 pm

Wasn't tsl 3 chapters instead of 9? I know it was intially was goin to be around nine, but that was shorten to three once they scraped the old concept a few years ago.

Mike Haley

12/30/2008, 02:58 pm

If I have my facts straight, the original plan was to release the game in three parts. Shadows, The Two That Are One, and Eternities. Each part would have contained three chapters.

doom saber

01/02/2009, 03:28 am

If I have my facts straight, the original plan was to release the game in three parts. Shadows, The Two That Are One, and Eternities. Each part would have contained three chapters.
Initially when KQ9 had a completely different storyline back in 99?, the plan was like 12 or 9 chapters.

Mike Haley

01/02/2009, 10:19 am

Initially when KQ9 had a completely different storyline back in 99?, the plan was like 12 or 9 chapters.
From what I have read, the project was very unorganized before 2002. The team was even under different management. So, it is like comparing sour apples to ripe oranges.

I don't know where the number twelve came from, but as I indicated above, there were in fact a total of nine chapters planned according to the three part release schedule first proposed in 2005. That is still the number of chapters that they stand by today, though most of them may never appear in-game. It sounds like Peter Spear (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Peter_Spear) (King's Quest Companion (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/King%27s_Quest_Companion)) is writing an unofficial novel, though.

doodo!

11/29/2009, 03:34 am

The Silver Lining
http://www.tsl-game.com/home.php

Icedhope

11/29/2009, 03:41 am

The Silver Lining
http://www.tsl-game.com/home.php

Omg, that looks epic...I miss sieara online games.

StarEye

11/29/2009, 03:44 am

Eleven!?

puzzlebox

11/29/2009, 03:45 am

The last one I played was VII :rolleyes:

doodo!

11/29/2009, 03:47 am

Eleven!?

I thought there was only 8 official games? I guess I just meant IX

Icedhope

11/29/2009, 03:57 am

I thought there was only 8 official games? I guess I just meant IX

I thought there were only seven according to steam there are seven.

puzzlebox

11/29/2009, 04:04 am

Icedhope

11/29/2009, 04:08 am

doodo!

11/29/2009, 04:08 am

The eighth one was called "King's Quest: Mask of Eternity". I think it was done in 3D, during that horrible period in the 90s when a lot of decent 2D series were bringing out visually inferior 3D sequels.

LOL, yeah that's about right.

So, now that's all cleared up. This fan project looks promising though.

I think that's the King's Quest Collection for Wins Xp, on stream, Icedhope.

Which doesn't include 8 and includes a remake of the first game.

Icedhope

11/29/2009, 04:14 am

LOL, yeah that's about right.

So, now that's all cleared up. This fan project looks promising though.

I think that's the King's Quest Collection for Wins Xp, on stream, Icedhope.

Which doesn't include 8 and includes a remake of the first game.

With that said, is it worth getting? Or not really..This fan game looks amazing but I don't want to be clueless to the story.

doodo!

11/29/2009, 04:24 am

With that said, is it worth getting? Or not really..This fan game looks amazing but I don't want to be clueless to the story.

The first game is remade but the sequels are all original. The second and third games have very dated graphics.The first game is pretty good but it's graphics have been slightly updated. I don't know if I can play the other first two games because the graphics aren't so great.

Also, the Quests are a text adventure from the first game up until the fifth game.

I've been playing the first game. I've noticed that you really have to think ahead in these games, you don't know you're screwed until later. Your choices effect what happens in the game presently and in the future. Also you can die in the game and get game overs, so saving is a good thing to keep in mind.
Over all it seems like a good game, some times it's hard to type in the right commands.

It's really a mixed bag, but you can DL the first game and then decide if you want to buy it.

Icedhope

11/29/2009, 04:46 am

The first game is remade but the sequels are all original. The second and third games have very dated graphics.The first game is pretty good but it's graphics have been slightly updated. I don't know if I can play the other first two games because the graphics aren't so great.

Also, the Quests are a text adventure from the first game up until the fifth game.

I've been playing the first game. I've noticed that you really have to think ahead in these games, you don't know you're screwed until later. Your choices effect what happens in the game presently and in the future. Also you can die in the game and get game overs, so saving is a good thing to keep in mind.
Over all it seems like a good game, some times it's hard to type in the right commands.

It's really a mixed bag, but you can DL the first game and then decide if you want to buy it.

So, I'm taking it these games are a lot like the original space quest and Sierras old adventure games, and if that is the case then I'm sold on it.

puzzlebox

11/29/2009, 04:52 am

So, I'm taking it these games are a lot like the original space quest and Sierras old adventure games, and if that is the case then I'm sold on it.

They are, in fact, old Sierra adventure games. ;)

The 7th game is more "modern" and holds up well against today's adventure gaming standards. Here's the opening video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT4Rw-00O_Y) - the human animation is not the greatest but it reminds me of a Disney movie. The graphics, characters, music, humour and story are all very memorable. In fact the music is FANTASTIC.

If you only get one of them, make it the 7th game!

(I've sold myself on it, think I need to go replay it now. :p)

doodo!

11/29/2009, 05:37 am

The game is actually teaching me a little about life. King's Quest 1.

puzzlebox

11/29/2009, 05:49 am

I suppose the gameplay mimics real life in a way - screw up early on and it might come back to bite you in the ass later. :p

Icedhope

11/29/2009, 06:05 am

I suppose the gameplay mimics real life in a way - screw up early on and it might come back to bite you in the ass later. :p

Stupid Cat...

MusicallyInspired

11/29/2009, 06:07 am

KQ9 was supposed to be a 3-chapter series released over time. But it looks like they're only releasing the first chapter now. "KQ9" (or The Silver Lining, as it has been renamed for legal reasons) has been in development for years. Gone through a couple project leaders (I met the original, nice guy....he's now a a writer for Adventure Gamer. I think he's even been around here once or twice). From what I hear from some former members, though, I'm not too impressed with what they're doing with the story. Their intent is to make the story grittier and darker and "more mature" than the original King's Quest games which were fairly light-hearted and didn't take themselves too seriously. Their reasoning is that because old KQ gamers have "grown up" the games need to "grow up" with them. I heard some plot elements that may or may not be still involved (though I think they are) and I was appalled at what they intended to do.

Some may like it, some may love it, but I'm sure most classic KQ fans will hate it. The original project leader said the game in its current state is nothing now like what he intended years back when he started it.

But everyone has an opinion, maybe this is just mine and will continue to be just mine. Incidentally, Cesar Bitter here at TellTale Games is (was?) the current project leader for TSL.

Darth Marsden

11/29/2009, 06:09 am

*Sighs*

Kings Quest I Remake (http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/kq1/about/about.html), Kings Quest II Remake (http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/kq2/about/about.html), Kings Quest III Remake (http://www.infamous-adventures.com/kq3/).

This fan game is actually supposed to be the ninth in the series - so IX, not XI as the thread title suggests. It is, however, coming out in three parts, so I suppose that could explain some confusion. Check the games FAQ (http://www.tsl-game.com/info/faq/).

Mataku

11/29/2009, 06:28 am

So it's out already? I've been waiting for like 7 years now.... The demo was disappointing, hope the full game would be better.

doodo!

11/29/2009, 06:40 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC9_qCeIFvM

Anyone ever play or can comprehend this language? ^ Monkey Island fan game above

Icedhope

11/29/2009, 07:17 am

I wish I knew German.

puzzlebox

11/29/2009, 07:21 am

I wish a cool German-speaker would subtitle it.

Darth Marsden

11/29/2009, 07:24 am

Gah! Beaten to it. But yeah, that's German.

Hey, I'm bored ATM. Let's see what I can come up with.

puzzlebox

11/29/2009, 07:30 am

^ Darth Marsden is a potentially awesome wish-granting genie.

Icedhope

11/29/2009, 07:34 am

Woo! Granting our wishes, we should give give him a prize.

Darth Marsden

11/29/2009, 08:39 am

I got about four minutes through the first video before giving up due to boredom. Here's what I got so far:

Outside LeChuck's fortress
Somewhere deep in the Caribbean...
...hidden behind an eternal storm...
...lies the fortress of the Zombie-Pirate LeChuck...
...ruled by an iron fist.

Inside LeChuck's throne room
LeChuck: LARGO!
LeChuck: LAAARGO!
LeChuck: Where is that useless waste of space?

Voodoo Priest: I don't know!

LeChuck: Really?

Doorbell!

LeChuck: What's on Earth!
LeChuck: By the beard of Klabautermanns! (I couldn't translate that word, so I guess it's a name)
LeChuck: Who could that possibly be?
LeChuck: Voodoo Priest!
LeChuck: Go and find out who dares disturb my peace and quiet!

Voodoo Priest: No!

LeChuck: What?

Voodoo Priest: No!
Voodoo Priest: Lunchbreak!

LeChuck: Grr!
LeChuck: You can't get the help these days.

Outside LeChuck's throne room
LeChuck: Oh no!
LeChuck: Not this guy again!

Starts conversing with Stan

LeChuck: So...

Stan: Ah, the great Captain LeChuck in person!
Stan: Just the man I was expecting.
Stan: Now Captain LeChuck, I need you to be completely honest...
Stan: What do you think of your deluxe version of...
Stan: Stan's Used Fortresses for Super-Villains?
Stan: Don't say anything.
Stan: This is my best idea yet.
Stan: Don't be shy. Come talk with good old Stan.

LeChuck:Who are you?!?

Stan: Do you not remember?
Stan: I am Stan.
Stan: I sold you this beautifully designed, elegant, luxurious and impregnable fortress.
Stan: Well, that was before your, uh... untimely demise.
Stan: I hope your sudden death has not affected your opinion on this gem!

LeChuck: What do you want?

Stan: Well Captain, far be it from me to disturb your eternal rest, but...
Stan: ...I need to remind you about the outstanding payments on this stylish property.
Stan: I have payments to make as well. I need to fufill my obligations.
Stan: So if you would be so kind as to hand over my money...
Stan: ...I'll not steal any more of your precious time.

LeChuck: How much money do I owe you?

Stan: That sounds reasonable. Now we're speaking in the same language, my dear LeChuck.
Stan: The total amount still due is 300,000 Gold pieces.
Stan: And I won't even charge you for any interest.

LeChuck: How much money do you want now?

Stan: Only 300,000 Gold Pieces. And then you're rid of good old Stan.

God bless Google Translate. Anyway, it's not complete, but it gives you an idea of what the game's like.

puzzlebox

11/29/2009, 09:27 am

Woo! Granting our wishes, we should give give him a prize.

Mushroom top with bugs smushed into it?

Stan: Stan's Used Fortresses for Super-Villains?

Bahahahahahaha...that's awesome :D

Thanks for doing that Darth Marsden! Pretty sweet script.

Why have I not heard of this game before? And why are Germans so cool?

Darth Marsden

11/29/2009, 11:55 am

I know of a site full of fan games like this. I stumbled onto it ages ago. Might as well share the love (http://voodoofgisland.altervista.org/encompleti.html).

PimPamPet

11/29/2009, 08:16 pm

*Sighs*

Kings Quest I Remake (http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/kq1/about/about.html), Kings Quest II Remake (http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/kq2/about/about.html), Kings Quest III Remake (http://www.infamous-adventures.com/kq3/).

I cannot stress enough how mandatory these remakes (by both AGDI & IA) are for fans of the old Sierra games. They are absolutely fantastic.

As for KQ9 (or The Silver Lining, as they're calling it now), I wasn't too impressed with the demo when that came out (several years ago, as I recall), but I'm still somewhat excited to see the finished product (if it ever comes out, that is).

doodo!

12/02/2009, 04:40 am

Be ware that the first game is impossible unless you know about fairy tales and folklore, I consider this a major weakness to the game. It's not all about puzzles, alot of the puzzles are external and disconnected from the game. Make sure you know all about fairy tales before you play, I dread that about the game.

I hope the second isn't as stupid.

MusicallyInspired

12/02/2009, 03:43 pm

Actually, all the King's Quest games have some form of fairy tale folklore elements to them. That was the whole thing about King's Quest. It's not as bad in the later games. And certainly not bad at all in the KQ2+ remake since it's an overhaul of the original very basic game (except for the bookshelf puzzle which requires knowledge of basic fairy tale plots). But yes, all King's Quests have something to do with fairy tales.

Mataku

12/02/2009, 05:07 pm

Yhea, when it's just one, it's a ripoff. When it's a lot, it's an homage.

doodo!

12/02/2009, 07:44 pm

Yhea, when it's just one, it's a ripoff. When it's a lot, it's an homage.

I guess you're right. :)

Icedhope

12/03/2009, 02:29 am

There is nothing wrong with the fairy tales in my opinion. Yeah, I can't stop playing the sci remake of Kings quest.

Mataku

02/28/2010, 08:36 am

After 8 years, and a lot of hard work, the game has finally.... been canceled ;(

http://www.tsl-game.com/forum/index.php?topic=8394.0

Secret Fawful

02/28/2010, 12:11 pm

Activision. The next Lucasarts. Well, time to begin the boycott. No more Activision games for me. Jackasses.

mateo360

02/28/2010, 12:37 pm

I was really upset to get the e-mail saying it was shut down this morning. Stupid Activision. I can't boycott them though since most of the star trek games I want are made by them.

Gibbeynator

02/28/2010, 12:45 pm

Hopefully this won't impact the release of the Space Quest 2 remake.

Murray the Chao

02/28/2010, 11:59 pm

Activision. The next Lucasarts. Well, time to begin the boycott. No more Activision games for me. Jackasses.

I don't recall LucasArts killing off a fan game.

Secret Fawful

03/01/2010, 12:08 am

I don't recall LucasArts killing off a fan game.

They shut down LucasFan as far as I remember, even though you can still find their games across the net.

Rather Dashing

03/01/2010, 12:10 am

They shut down LucasFan as far as I remember, even though you can still find their games across the net.
Also, only somewhat related, they did attempt legal action against Digg (http://kotaku.com/239913/lucasarts-sues-digg). Certainly not the same thing, but still.

wefeelgroove

03/01/2010, 05:32 am

And here I thought Activision were being kinda cool by rereleasing old games on GOG. Well, I guess they won't be getting any of my money after all.

Darth Marsden

03/01/2010, 07:19 am

And here I thought Activision were being kinda cool by rereleasing old games on GOG. Well, I guess they won't be getting any of my money after all.I love this sort of attitude. Especially since it's all moot and we'll all be grabbing Starcraft II (all three parts).

Rather Dashing

03/01/2010, 07:35 am

I love this sort of attitude. Especially since it's all moot and we'll all be grabbing Starcraft II (all three parts).
I'm not going to, actually. More of a turn-based strategy guy, and Civilization V will scratch that itch. And if I wanted real-time strategy, well, there are other avenues for that as well. I just never got into Starcraft.

Darth Marsden

03/01/2010, 07:55 am

Well, I won't either (RTS games aren't my thing), but it was more a generalization than an actual fact, or something similar that means I'm right and you're wrong.

mateo360

03/01/2010, 07:55 am

Here is a petition written by someone on the tsl forum:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/savetsl/

Rather Dashing

03/01/2010, 08:11 am

Well, I won't either (RTS games aren't my thing), but it was more a generalization than an actual fact, or something similar that means I'm right and you're wrong.
Either way I'm screwed. Or at least, I would be if I didn't want to give Activision any money. They publish games with Spider-Man on the cover. If anything can sell me on a mediocre game, it would be the ability to swing through New York as Spider-Man.

I suppose I could buy them used just out of spite, though?

Jake

03/01/2010, 08:18 am

I don't recall LucasArts killing off a fan game.

About ten years ago LucasArts was notorious for shuttering fan projects. They lightened up after a while, though, and entered into "official hosting" agreements for fan projects with places like LucasFiles and AtomFilms. I don't know the state of that stuff at this point though.

wefeelgroove

03/01/2010, 09:43 am

I love this sort of attitude. Especially since it's all moot and we'll all be grabbing Starcraft II (all three parts).

Nice try, but I have about zero interest in starcraft. :D

Novotnus

03/01/2010, 11:35 am

About ten years ago LucasArts was notorious for shuttering fan projects. They lightened up after a while, though, and entered into "official hosting" agreements for fan projects with places like LucasFiles and AtomFilms. I don't know the state of that stuff at this point though.

Looks like they are still supporting some fan projects:
LucasFiles Fan Projects (http://www.lucasfiles.com/index.php?s=&action=category&id=46&PHPSESSID=60982d2c9bf31165e3bb46f7e8ce4e13)
Most of those are mods for no-LucasArts games and all of it is Star Wars, but still...
Also, projects like Darkness of Monkey Island, Indiana Jones and Fountain of Youth or Shadows of the Empire (the adventure game) are still living and (I hope) doing well.
Just guess much has changed after Jim Ward left.

Azure

03/03/2010, 10:40 am

I was really looking forward to this, such an incredible amount of love and hard work was put into it. ;(

cocomonk22

03/03/2010, 03:45 pm

First of all, can someone change the topic title to IX instead of XI?

Phoenix Online Studios should have been more prepared for this. After all, when Vivendi acquired Sierra, they received a C&D which required that the name be changed. They should have been prepared a plan to avoid future legal issues if Vivendi was acquired by another company, such as allowing the King's Quest rights to be sold to someone else, such as, say, Telltale games. TSL was planned to be released in episodes, so it would have been a good fit.

names_are_useless

03/12/2010, 10:53 pm

For any fans of this great game, I come bearing SAD news :(

http://www.tsl-game.com/

Game has received a Cease & Desist from Activision. Unlike Vivendi, who has been bought by Activision, I doubt the TSL team could work out any deal to get this game released.

Think about this for a second: 8 years of hard work, ALL FOR NOTHING! This is a sad, sad day for Adventurer gamers :(

Eduardo

03/27/2010, 11:13 am

Silver Lining devs want to purchase King's Quest license from Activision:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/27/silver-lining-devs-want-to-purchase-kings-quest-license-from-ac/

Irishmile

03/27/2010, 11:59 am

If Activision sells the license I hope its bought by a company that have the skill to treat it right.... that fan game is all good, as a fan game but as an officially licensed game? No thanks.

Secret Fawful

03/27/2010, 01:08 pm

Purchasing the license would take thousands of dollars, wouldn't it?

MusicallyInspired

03/27/2010, 02:04 pm

PariahKing

03/27/2010, 08:09 pm

MusicallyInspired

03/27/2010, 08:29 pm

It's already pretty dead.

No, I didn't say they would kill it. I said they would destroy it. They'd revitalize it then disfigure it in such a way as to leave a horrible taste in everyone's nostalgia which would ruin the name of King's Quest forever afterwards for those who remember it.

PariahKing

03/27/2010, 08:31 pm

No, I didn't say they would kill it. I said they would destroy it. They'd revitalize it then disfigure it in such a way as to leave a horrible taste in everyone's nostalgia which would ruin the name of King's Quest forever afterwards for those who remember it.It would just be ruined for like a decade. At that point everyone would forget how much they hated the new one, make a sequel that ignored the plot holes of the last, and achieve glorious success.

MusicallyInspired

03/27/2010, 09:01 pm

Yes, maybe. But this team would still hold the copyrights. Which changes all the rules in that regard.

PariahKing

03/27/2010, 09:53 pm

It will, never, ever happen though.

MusicallyInspired

03/28/2010, 06:20 am

Hopefully not.

names_are_useless

04/06/2010, 09:13 pm

NO WAY do I want that to happen! I DO NOT want the King's Quest license in the hands of a bunch of fans! Then all the decisions are not based on business views but on personal views. They could keep anybody from doing anything KQ related even if they held a personal grudge.

And besides all that, I despised the KQ9 project when I heard what the story entailed and how it RUINED King's Quest. I'm glad it was axed. Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for all the devs that put a lot of hard work into the project, but in the long run I'm happy.

But the King's Quest license in the hands of these people would destroy King's Quest forever.
What's with all the hate for Phoenix Online Studios (aka the KQ9 dev group) and TSL? Who are you to say the game will have a bad plot when hardly any of the game's plot has been revealed? I'd say they've done a great job at keeping the plot of a 10-year long project quite secret!

What is wrong with giving the KQ series a conclusion? I've lurked their forums for a few years now, and I've heard Phoenix Online Studios say they weren't interested in making a "KQ10" after TSL is done, but making their own original project.

Let's just let there be one more King's Quest, that way Mask of Eternity isn't the last KQ of the series :p

MusicallyInspired

04/06/2010, 09:51 pm

names_are_useless

04/06/2010, 10:17 pm

I had a few inside sources. Very reliable ones. I did NOT appreciate the tone they were taking King's Quest in. I don't think a lot of others would have either. It was just very dark and very not King's Quest at all. It was not the King's Quest you remember. And they kept defending that by saying that they wanted the series to mature like the players themselves have matured over the years.

I'm not bashing the work of the dev team. In fact I mentioned I was saddened that all their hard work went to waste. And I have nothing against the series having an ending. I just don't want one with those writers.
Alright, I'll admit that when I played the demo I was disappointed in the overly-serious tone that didn't fit the other games (well ok, MoE took a pretty serious tone as well ... but its the black sheep of the KQ family for a reason :p). I mean, yeah Graham's daughter (and I think son too, been a number of years since I played the demo) was kidnapped which would make anyone kinda sad, but even when Graham's ENTIRE family was kidnapped by Mordack in KQ5, he seemed to keep quite the positive upper lip. All that demo really needed was a little more positive Graham (and a few bugs fixed) and I'd have 100% confidence in Phoenix Online Studios.

All the same, I'm intrigued about how POS plan to tie the whole series together. I've had my own ideas of how the series should end, and I hope that TSL's is even half as epic as I'd imagine they should be.

Even if POS isn't able to buy the KQ license, or even just a commercial license (not saying that either chances are very high), I think all fans of KQ should help keep their support, even if its just signing their fan petition (not that I think that will do much good either ... but it can't hurt).

MusicallyInspired

04/06/2010, 10:43 pm

Daughter getting kidnapped? You think that's dark? That's nothing. I'd even accept that if that's all it was. No, it goes deeper and darker. Twisted dark.

names_are_useless

04/06/2010, 10:54 pm

Daughter getting kidnapped? You think that's dark? That's nothing. I'd even accept that if that's all it was. No, it goes deeper and darker. Twisted dark.
No no, I wasn't saying Graham's daughter being kidnapped was dark, I was merely mentioning that Graham acts all mopey about it, when yet his whole family has been kidnapped in the past and he stayed quite positive his whole adventure in KQ5. Just noticing some inconsistency in Graham's character in TSL is all :p

MusicallyInspired

04/06/2010, 11:01 pm

Ah.

Chyron8472

04/07/2010, 08:16 pm

I've had my own ideas of how the series should end, and I hope that TSL's is even half as epic as I'd imagine they should be.

I only played part of the demo, but I don't know what anyone means by "how the series should end."

Truth be told, I never played KQ8:Mask of Eternity. I've heard too many bad things about it, not to mention seen plenty of depressing screenshots.

From where I'm standing only the point and click (and parser) KQ games count, and as such, the series (without TSL) ends with Graham having many years ahead of him, thanks to some magic fruit, and both of his children move away and get married, intending to start families of their own. Happily Ever After: The End. Where's the need for wrapping things up further?

MusicallyInspired

04/08/2010, 07:06 am

MOE gets too much flak. It's a great game on its own. It's just a very weak King's Quest title.

names_are_useless

05/06/2010, 09:01 pm

MOE gets too much flak. It's a great game on its own. It's just a very weak King's Quest title.
Just so you know, I actually enjoyed Mask of Eternity as more of a standalone title. Its just that it was considered a King's Quest game, and the last one at that. Also the game suffered severely for being an incomplete game. It could have turned out A LOT better imo.

Oh, and just so you all know, TSL might not officially be dead yet (http://kotaku.com/5529809/the-sequel-they-had-no-right-to-make--now-has-a-surprise-twist)! Still, the KQ rights always has the chance of changing companies again before TSL is released and the new company will issue a cease and desist ... its an Ouroboros, a dragon that eats its own tail, a never-ending cycle :(

MusicallyInspired

05/07/2010, 02:05 pm

Made a thread already (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16581).

Graham of Daventry

06/25/2010, 12:31 pm

What's happening at The Silver Lining's website? http://www.tsl-game.com

Irishmile

06/25/2010, 12:35 pm

change apparently.... I wonder what it means.

MusicallyInspired

06/25/2010, 12:38 pm

ActiVision mentioned a couple months ago it had reopened negotiations for release of the game.

hitmarty

06/27/2010, 12:26 am

Phoenix Online Studios finally made a deal with Activision and got a non commercial license for The Silver Lining. The first episode comes out at the 10. July! I'm very excited about it have waited long for it!

http://www.tsl-game.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgRUr0HwQVE&feature=player_embedded

PimPamPet

06/27/2010, 01:49 am

About time!

Murray the Chao

06/27/2010, 02:41 am

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/MithosYggdrasil/Album2/BrawlGraham2.jpg

MusicallyInspired

06/27/2010, 09:41 am

Phoenix Online Studios finally made a deal with Activision and got a non commercial license for The Silver Lining.

Again, you mean. Though, technically this could be the first deal with ActiVision, even though the Vivendi one still existed when ActiVision took over the IPs.

Irishmile

06/27/2010, 09:51 am

July is going to be an awesome month for games

thesporkman

07/09/2010, 09:34 pm

It's coming out today! Who's excited? :D

The game's intro movie has been posted on G4's website:

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/706136/Exclusive-Opening-Video-From-Kings-Quest-Sequel-The-Silver-Lining.html

Spadge

07/09/2010, 10:51 pm

I really have to play this! I found a Let's Play of the Alpha on YouTube dating September 2009, but haven't watched it because I don't want spoilers.

Megaloman

07/10/2010, 03:26 am

Oooh, new King's Quest today! Can't wait to get home and start downloading it!

EDIT: I guess traffic is pretty dense over there, I can't even get to TSLs homepage.

Mataku

07/10/2010, 01:27 pm

It's out now go get it! :D:D:D

Irishmile

07/10/2010, 01:33 pm

hilarious..

Mataku

07/10/2010, 01:38 pm

what is?

Irishmile

07/10/2010, 01:40 pm

Hello Silver Lining Fans!

We are currently in the process of preparing our servers for the release of the game later today. The websites will be back up and running soon!

Thanks,
The Silver Lining Development Team

Where is it out?

Mataku

07/10/2010, 01:45 pm

try reloading the page with CTRL+F5
or simply go here:

http://www.postudios.com/blog/?page_id=4

and just to prove i'm not full of it:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5243/derrrp.jpg

Irishmile

07/10/2010, 01:56 pm

That link works... the TSL page still has not updated.... weird.

Sorry I doubted you.

Mataku

07/10/2010, 02:50 pm

that was very short. finished it in 20 minutes...

thesporkman

07/10/2010, 02:58 pm

There was, like, one puzzle.

SHODANFreeman

07/10/2010, 03:04 pm

that was very short. finished it in 20 minutes...

There was, like, one puzzle.

Maybe they're going for some crazy new episodic model where they release 200 episodes, once every 2-3 days?

Irishmile

07/10/2010, 03:06 pm

Well... at least it was free right?

thesporkman

07/10/2010, 03:15 pm

Was there any way to die other than swimming out into the ocean?

Hayden

07/10/2010, 06:53 pm

Well, that's a little sad for all you guys that it was so incredibly short after all these years of waiting.

that was very short. finished it in 20 minutes...

Are you absolutely sure it only took you 20 minutes? Because that would mean that it's almost as long as 'IWWHIIWWHITOMIROTPG', which would be extremely disappointing seeing as how that fan game only took about a week-and-a-half to make. So, I guess there isn't too much to worry about.

Update: I'm currently reading (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8695.0) that the second episode will be much longer, and that 'What is Decreed Must Be' just serves as basically a re-introduction back into the King's Quest world.

Mataku

07/11/2010, 02:37 am

2nd episode would be twice as long, so get ready for mind boggling difficulty of two puzzles!

Mike Haley

07/11/2010, 03:53 pm

Even though it was short, I was surprised with the overall quality of the first episode. I guess that it is a case of quality over quantity, and being that it is a fan-made game being released on a freeware license, expectations shouldn't be that high to begin with. My only real problem was with some of the voices. I didn't care much for the Narrator, or some of the Castle of the Crown characters, but thankfully, King Graham's voice was spot on. He was the real standout character, and that's definitely a good thing (being that he's with you throughout the whole game).

Hopefully, though, the later episodes are a bit more interactive (unless they're going for a new hands-free approach, but that may work better in a Leisure Suit Larry game).

Secret Fawful

07/11/2010, 09:55 pm

I agree, the quality was immense. The directing, story, and acting were phenomenal, and the game world they've created is fantastic. In fact it's better for me than most of the earlier Kings Quest games on that front. I also ADORE the villain, and that other mysterious cloaked man. Every time they were on screen the atmosphere was incredibly tense, and the villain TAKES CARE OF BUSINESS.

I'm sensing a return to the classic KQ atmosphere with mind boggling puzzles, exploration, death traps, and maze-like areas with Episodes 2-5. I think the project lead even confirmed this. Remember the map and all the locations on it! ;)

MusicallyInspired

07/11/2010, 11:44 pm

I've no doubt the game will be loaded with atmosphere, great gameplay, and excellent storytelling. I'm just wary about where they're going to take the story....I heard some pretty dark and twisted things that they had planned for it from some inside sources. I hope that's since been changed. We'll find out.

Megaloman

07/12/2010, 03:49 am

Phoenix Online answers the critique here (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8733.0).

I found this section to be especially interesting: "Now, once you get to Episode 2, we will break the linearity. You will have goals that you can meet in the order you want, and there will be a lot more characters to interact with."

SHODANFreeman

07/12/2010, 04:15 am

I'm not really sure I understand the point of having an episode where the player does approximately nothing.

Irishmile

07/12/2010, 07:07 am

maybe they just wanted to give us something before they get shut down again.

TV-Geek

09/15/2010, 04:45 pm

GREAT news! We are thrilled to announce that The Silver Lining, Episode 2: Two Households will be available for download this coming Saturday, September 18th at 1 PM PST/4 PM EST! The download will be available, for free, at tsl-game.com!

Filled with more gameplay, more puzzles, more locations, more characters, and new features, Episode 2 will fully launch the player into Graham’s quest to save his children and learn the identity of the cloaked stranger who has cursed them.

Get ready for Release Day 2.0, and go check out the new trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yaj_aGRU1DI) for Episode 2 now, and enjoy a screenshot from Episode 2 on our blog!
(http://www.postudios.com/blog/?p=631)

doodo!

09/15/2010, 05:02 pm

The first episode was out already? I never liked the format of the KQ games, but I do like the stories.

How the heck are you supposed to guess a pass word that isn't in the game at all or remotely, oh I get it, buy a guide/ book...or call the hot line.

Chyron8472

09/15/2010, 08:12 pm

I didn't know episode 1 was out already either, since Phoenix Online has had so many problems with acquiring permission to make the game.

I'm going to try it out.

Alaedrain

09/15/2010, 08:42 pm

I hope it's going to end out better as a game. Ep. 1 was a good introduction/homage to the King's Quest series, but man, only one puzzle ?! :confused: (and an easy one at that)

Hayden

09/16/2010, 12:07 am

This game will definitely be longer, with an average of about 4 hours gameplay, apparently (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/24/new-silver-lining-chapter-out-in-september-old-kings-quest-gam/). So, there shouldn't be much to worry about this time around.

roberttitus

09/16/2010, 04:31 am

I told you all that the second episode would be free too, but you all laughed at me. Who's laughing now?

Chyron8472

09/16/2010, 01:16 pm

wtf are you talking about, Robert? Who the heck laughed at you and said they would charge for it?

It's a fan game, not an official release. They can't charge for it. Just as IA and AGD can't profit from their KQ1-3 remakes either. If they did, it would break copyright laws.

Activision gave Phoenix Online permission to make a game using people and places from the KQ series. They didn't give them permission to profit from it. If Activision had done that, they would have been given credit (and a cut of the profits) as a publisher of the game.

roberttitus

09/16/2010, 01:17 pm

wtf are you talking about, Robert?

It's a fan game, not an official release. They can't charge for it. Just as IA and AGD can't profit from their KQ1-3 remakes either. If they did, it would break copyright laws.

Activision gave Phoenix Online permission to make a game using people and places from the KQ series. They didn't give them permission to profit from it.

I'm glad that we are in agreement

Chyron8472

09/16/2010, 01:26 pm

Not really. I was stating the obvious.

I told you all that the second episode would be free too, but you all laughed at me. Who's laughing now?

wtf are you talking about, Robert? Who the heck laughed at you and said they would charge for it?

And you didn't answer my question.

roberttitus

09/16/2010, 03:04 pm

Not really. I was stating the obvious.

And you didn't answer my question.

You edited that part after I responded.

a few people on here...a few people on youtube videos... y'know... the usual

gamex12

09/16/2010, 03:29 pm

Yes, i do like the stories as i have seen the first episode much before!

Secret Fawful

09/18/2010, 04:56 am

So, yeah, just thought I'd remind everyone that the second episode is due out today. Woohoo yeah.

roberttitus

09/18/2010, 12:50 pm

Be careful about downloading it.... Avast stopped the download for me because it detected a virus. I'm not sure if it is a false positive or if it truly has a virus, but I'm just putting it out there.

Secret Fawful

09/19/2010, 11:58 am

There's no virus in this game. Oh, and so far its really great. I am legitimately stuck on a puzzle, and I've died a few times too.

roberttitus

09/19/2010, 02:50 pm

You done scans since downloading it?

Secret Fawful

09/19/2010, 03:56 pm

I did one since you asked. No viruses.

waltzdancing

12/09/2010, 05:15 pm

Wonderful news! Phoenix Online Studios is happy to announce that The Silver Lining, Episode 3: My Only Love Sprang from My Only Hate will be available for download on January 29th, 2011!

This will be the best episode yet with more puzzles, new characters and greater dangers for graham to overcome to save his children.

Check out our website at www.tsl-game.com to see recent screen shots, download the soundtrack and send e-cards to your friends and family. Mark your calendars and get ready to live the magic!

Adrienne Elliott
Production Coordinator
The Silver Lining

doggans

12/10/2010, 10:30 am

TSL's been pretty enjoyable so far (even if the first episode was way too short). It has its flaws, but overall, I'm just happy to be exploring the Land of the Green Isles again with a new story.

StingingVelvet

02/20/2011, 04:40 pm

I played 20 minutes of The Silver Lining and 19 of it was listening to the narrator ramble on endlessly after I clicked on a potted plant.

waltzdancing

02/20/2011, 08:57 pm

I for one love TSL. The music, graphics, story line are all beautifully done. This is a fan game that has risen to new heights and has exceeded all of my expectations. Sure it is a new take on things, and people are resistant to change, but who is to saw that it wouldn't lighten up if the story had a chance to continue.

If we looked at the other games and broke them into five episodes then the first chapters would be really boring. Take Kq2 for example, Imagine getting one key and that's it till next month. God, I would hate that because you aren't doing anything except walking around collecting stuff. Patience is what is needed when playing Episodic games.

Over all, TSL is a deep moving story that touches the player at the heart. It gives you hope and inspires the player to stand up against all odds and to do what is right. Graham could have easily give up but that is the one message that all the KQ games have, including 8. Never give up and TSL continues this tradition.

Blackthorne519

02/20/2011, 08:59 pm

I like TSL's graphics and music - I like them a lot! I think it looks and plays great. I think the writing is a bit.... verbose and melodramatic. The story feels like a giant soap opera, and all that's missing is the "dramatic orchestra hits" and JR Ewing. Still, it's an impressive work - I just hope Telltale doesn't delve into a large, sweeping melodramatic story. Keeping it simple is the way to go.

Bt

Marquillin

02/20/2011, 09:30 pm

I guess some people just dig the melodrama more, considering it the next logical step of progression from the demi-melodrama of King's Quest 6 and 7. Many parts of King's Quest have never been fixed, but experimental with each installment. I agree most of the time it should be toned down, but at least one dramatic cataclysm is great for bringing the whole story together, which I never think is a bad thing, even if it's never been done for the franchise to this degree.

caeska

09/07/2011, 01:39 pm

The 4th installment of The Silver Lining, entitled “Tis in My Memory Locked, and You Yourself Shall Keep the Key of It” will be released next month!
Personally, I'm excited!

Not only will we get more of the action sequence goodness we had in episode 3 but they promise us new areas of Sacred Mountain and exploration of Isle of the Beast.

They really took their time with this episode, not promising any release date, instead of rushing it like they did with the previous episode and I'm sure that this will be well-designed and rich in content.
For those of you who haven't yet played TSL, I can highly recommend picking it up at tsl (http://www.tsl-game.com/).

Here are some screenshots (http://www.postudios.com/blog/?p=1239) though.

MusicallyInspired

09/07/2011, 03:22 pm

I don't understand the decision behind the incredibly lavish, and in this case lengthy, chapter titles of TSL. They just seem pretentious and they're not that memorable (because they're hard to remember).

BagginsKQ

09/07/2011, 05:01 pm

Someone likes Shakespeare...

But apparently not KQ style Humorous pun titles...

Cez

09/07/2011, 05:34 pm

well, that was what Every Cloak Has a Silver Lining was for. But things changed...

This one is extremely lengthy, I'll admit. Eriq laughed for like 30 mins when I told him what was it so that he can make the actual logo for it.

It just fits very well. :)

KatieHal

09/08/2011, 06:42 am

LOL, oh god, I can imagine he did! Yeah, this one is both long and at the same time fitting.

lattsam

09/08/2011, 10:55 am

More of the Isle of the Sacred Mountain? Ooh, I hope I get to explore the labyrinth!

KuroShiro

09/08/2011, 08:54 pm

I appreciate the reference, but you might want to go for *slightly* more prosaic titles. That one is so flowery it comes across as self-parody.

KatieHal

09/09/2011, 06:11 am

Lambonius

09/09/2011, 08:46 am

KatieHal

09/09/2011, 08:59 am

Lamb? Derisive? Pshaw :)

Anakin Skywalker

09/09/2011, 09:25 am

It's funny because it is so very true. ;)

TSL? Pretentious?? PSHAWWW!

"Edgar, how did you feel about being a slave and not knowing your real family until you were an adult?"

"NINJAS"

"IAMBIC PENTAMETER"

"YES, NINJAS!"

"SOB SOB VALANICE SUICIDE ATTEMPT".

Lambonius

09/09/2011, 10:24 am

"edgar, how did you feel about being a slave and not knowing your real family until you were an adult?"

"ninjas"

"iambic pentameter"

"yes, ninjas!"

"sob sob valanice suicide attempt".

Awesome.

caeska

09/09/2011, 10:49 am

I appreciate the reference, but you might want to go for *slightly* more prosaic titles. That one is so flowery it comes across as self-parody.

I've got to admit, I like the episode titles. I kinda wish TTG would go the same direction with their titles, it would make for some pretty awesome posters.

Blackthorne519

09/09/2011, 05:35 pm

The Episode Title is ridiculous, but hey - it's their choice, and it fits the tone of the game so far. It would be weird if they called it "Jump Graham, Jump!"

Bt

KatieHal

09/10/2011, 06:04 am

Thanks caeska :) Yes, this one's a little long, but we made the decision to go with Shakespeare quotes, and each one chosen does indeed fit each episode.

Cez

09/10/2011, 10:49 am

Man, now I want to call it, Dance, Graham, Dance! Can we change then name? :)

KatieHal

09/10/2011, 03:42 pm

To be fair, we'd have to add a dance sequence then. :)

KuroShiro

09/10/2011, 08:13 pm

You should've heard the original, we shortened it to this after rejecting the original "Tis in My Memory Locked, and You Yourself Shall Keep the Key of It Darkity Dark Dark Emo McSkinnyJeanPants Cries All the Time"

:P

I am not really one of TSLs detractors -- I appreciate all the effort you guys have put in and I've mostly enjoyed the games as long as I don't take them too seriously. Since you do tend to be open to feedback, I just feel the need to comment when high school poetry circle level writing choices get put out for public consumption.

KatieHal

09/10/2011, 08:58 pm

We definitely welcome feedback--my comment was joking and meant in good fun. :)

Although, to be fair, as we said, the line is actually from Shakespeare, so not *quite* high school poetry ;)

Lambonius

09/10/2011, 09:06 pm

We definitely welcome feedback--my comment was joking and meant in good fun. :)

Although, to be fair, as we said, the line is actually from Shakespeare, so not *quite* high school poetry ;)

I'm pretty sure Kuroshiro wasn't suggesting that Shakespeare's writing was "high school level poetry", but rather that the extremely cliche nature of the title choices was high school level.

KuroShiro

09/10/2011, 11:07 pm

We definitely welcome feedback--my comment was joking and meant in good fun. :)

Although, to be fair, as we said, the line is actually from Shakespeare, so not *quite* high school poetry ;)

I think that might have come out a bit harshly, and I know your response was in fun. I'm aware of the sources of your titles -- note that I said choices, not actual writing :).

What I meant was more that it is the sort of thing I would have thought was a cool title back when I was 14 or 15. There's nothing inherently wrong with that if that's the audience you're aiming for, it just comes across as overly serious and kind of silly, as I said.

caeska

09/11/2011, 04:44 am

I think that might have come out a bit harshly, and I know your response was in fun. I'm aware of the sources of your titles -- note that I said choices, not actual writing :).

What I meant was more that it is the sort of thing I would have thought was a cool title back when I was 14 or 15. There's nothing inherently wrong with that if that's the audience you're aiming for, it just comes across as overly serious and kind of silly, as I said.

Just because I like the titles doesn't mean that I'm 14 or 15, if that's what you're implying. I'm 28 actually, and my impression of the episode titles are not that they're silly at all. They're different, and I have a high appreciation when people are bold enough to explore new directions, directions that are not widely employed in today's market.

I resent the theory that TSL is aimed towards an adolescent audience, when clearly the entire KQ genre has always and always will be appreciated by mature audiences.
For being a fan-made project, one that does not derive any profits no less, I think TSL is very well done.
In regards to music and storytelling, it is extremely well made.

Anakin Skywalker

09/11/2011, 04:50 am

Just because I like the titles doesn't mean that I'm 14 or 15, if that's what you're implying. I'm 28 actually, and my impression of the episode titles are not that they're silly at all. They're different, and I have a high appreciation when people are bold enough to explore new directions, directions that are not widely employed in today's market.

I resent the theory that TSL is aimed towards an adolescent audience, when clearly the entire KQ genre has always and always will be appreciated by mature audiences.
For being a fan-made project, one that does not derive any profits no less, I think TSL is very well done.
In regards to music and storytelling, it is extremely well made.

http://pics.mobygames.com/images/covers/large/1112239798-00.jpg

Lambonius

09/11/2011, 05:49 am

I'm 28 actually, and my impression of the episode titles are not that they're silly at all. They're different, and I have a high appreciation when people are bold enough to explore new directions, directions that are not widely employed in today's market.

The thing is, they're NOT original. Not in the slightest. Overly flowery prose is one of the major cliches of the fantasy genre in general. It's one thing if it's tongue-in-cheek, where the authors aren't taking themselves too seriously and the silliness is part of the intention behind it, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. People make the comparison to high school level writing because high school writers take themselves seriously but in reality don't have a clue what they're doing. There is no subtlety to high school level creative writing choices, and there is no subtlety to TSL's writing choices. The cheesy, overly long episode titles are just the latest example of this.

Anakin Skywalker

09/11/2011, 06:00 am

The thing is, they're NOT original. Not in the slightest. Overly flowery prose is one of the major cliches of the fantasy genre in general. It's one thing if it's tongue-in-cheek, where the authors aren't taking themselves too seriously and the silliness is part of the intention behind it, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. People make the comparison to high school level writing because high school writers take themselves seriously but in reality don't have a clue what they're doing. There is no subtlety to high school level creative writing choices, and there is no subtlety to TSL's writing choices. The cheesy, overly long episode titles are just the latest example of this.

Indeed...The titles almost come off as parody due to of their pretentious (and in this case, overlong and overly flowery) nature. It almost becomes unintentional self parody. It's very pompous to use Shakespeare IMO---As if the work it's used in is on caliber with his works. Though Cez compared TSL's development to the development of the Lord of the Rings...So, arrogance should be no surprise here.
http://http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/montypythonhg0450.jpg

KatieHal

09/11/2011, 06:18 am

We realize our game isn't going to be beloved by all--to each his or her own, and that's perfectly fine. We don't make claims that it's 'as good as Shakespeare', and saying that Cez compared TSL's development with LotR is an extremely skewed interpretation of what he said in a thread on our boards, Anakin/Perceval.

That said, if you have constructive criticisms to offer, please feel free to do so on our forums (http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php). That's the place where we are most likely to be able to read it and, if possible, take it into account as we continue to develop Episode 5 as well as future projects.

For those who have been enjoying the game, we appreciate your support and are glad you are enjoying it. :) We obviously welcome positive feedback too! And we'll let you know when Episode 4 is available, regardless of how long the title is or what it's source. ;)

Blackthorne519

09/11/2011, 07:05 am

KuroShiro

09/11/2011, 07:44 am

Just because I like the titles doesn't mean that I'm 14 or 15, if that's what you're implying. I'm 28 actually, and my impression of the episode titles are not that they're silly at all.,,

Yeah, again, note that I said that *I* would have found it cool when I was a teenager, not that everyone would have. People's tastes develop differently, and I was speaking only for myself. And I have already offered my constructive criticism concerning the writing on your forums after ep. 1 was released -- I'm pretty sure it was the thread that made you consider offering shortened narration (a blessing, btw).

And concerning Shakespeare... well, there was a reason he titled his plays things like "Hamlet" rather than "'Lo! My murd'rous Uncle doth stab at me and sparrows fall with special providence!". I suppose King's Quest in general bucks this trend by having somewhat longer subtitles, but still.

Anakin Skywalker

09/11/2011, 08:00 am

Yeah, again, note that I said that *I* would have found it cool when I was a teenager, not that everyone would have. People's tastes develop differently, and I was speaking only for myself. And I have already offered my constructive criticism concerning the writing on your forums after ep. 1 was released -- I'm pretty sure it was the thread that made you consider offering shortened narration (a blessing, btw).

And concerning Shakespeare... well, there was a reason he titled his plays things like "Hamlet" rather than "'Lo! My murd'rous Uncle doth stab at me and sparrows fall with special providence!". I suppose King's Quest in general bucks this trend by having somewhat longer subtitles, but still.

You also have to remember, though, that KQ titles are not serious, but are totally tongue in cheek puns, with the exceptions of 1 & 8.

King's Quest 1: Quest for the Crown
King's Quest 2: Romancing the Throne (a play on the film Romancing the Stone)
King's Quest 3: To Heir is Human (a play, ironically, on Shakepeare's "To err is human; to forgive, divine.")
King's Quest 4: The Perils of Rosella (a play on the film The Perils of Pauline)
King's Quest 5: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder (A play on the phrase "Absence Makes the Heart Grow Fonder")
King's Quest 6: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow (A play on "Here today, gone tomorrow)
King's Quest 7: The Princeless Bride (a play on the film the Princess Bride)
King's Quest 8: Mask of Eternity

Really the only long title is KQ5's. The rest are pretty short.

BagginsKQ

09/11/2011, 08:28 am

"play on the film the Princess Bride"

It was originally a book, btw.

Blackthorne519

09/11/2011, 08:58 am

King's Quest 3: To Heir is Human (a play, ironically, on Shakepeare's "To err is human; to forgive, divine.")

Just to let ya know, that quote is from Alexander Pope, not Shakespeare.

I know how you dig history, and if you haven't read any Pope yet - do yourself a favor and pour over some. You'll dig it.

Bt

Lambonius

09/11/2011, 10:33 am

And concerning Shakespeare... well, there was a reason he titled his plays things like "Hamlet" rather than "'Lo! My murd'rous Uncle doth stab at me and sparrows fall with special providence!".

Love this! :D Hahaha

der_ketzer

09/11/2011, 12:07 pm

Not only will we get more of the action sequence goodness we had in episode 3
God no. Please no!

tomimt

09/11/2011, 12:23 pm

MusicallyInspired

09/11/2011, 08:59 pm

Meh...it's just a fangame. They can do whatever they want. If they had gotten the King's Quest license from ActiVision to produce commercial titles, THEN I'd be the first to jump the gun and defend its innocence.

Cez

09/12/2011, 02:04 pm

Constructive criticism? Rein yourselves in a bit. Show some restraint in writing. What you leave out is often more important than what you leave in. Brevity is the soul of wit. That's honest, constructive criticism.

You've got a beautiful looking game, with wonderful sound and music - but the storytelling leaves something to be desired. The plot elements are interesting, but the execution is overly self-indulgent.

Bt

Duly noted.

Looking at it now, I actually think our cutscene material is very strong, while our conversations with characters/narrations could use a lot of editing. But you know what they say about hindsight, right? I was too in love with my prose, that's very true.

The conversations needed an editing pass that they never got, mainly because we were scrambling to finish the script in time for when recordings started. So, Katie did a great job, but only in fixing my broken English --since it's not my native tongue and back then, it was very broken.

With narrations, we took the wrong turn when the demo feedback requested for more. I think we had the right amount back then, as we never received this type of feedback then. And then I unleashed a self-indulgent beast I should have never released.

Regardless, I think we have a strong storyline. I also think that thanks to the feedback, we've managed to make the new elements that we've included in every episode very strong and fans favorite, because we've now dedicated the time to write the right amount of text and take our time to properly edit stuff --noted by sections like the brevity of the tower narrations, or the conversations with Lt Shorty, or even the ending cutscene to Episode 3, all which have received good amount of feedback as they were edited and re-edited and touched and re-touched until they felt right.

Episode 5 was fully written taking all the feedback in consideration. The flowery prose is still there, but only used when necessary to keep up with the story tone. Gone are the long, long narrations except in few cases, where, again, the story demands more detail. And gone are also the unnecessary conversations --helped by the notion that Episode 5 is very desolate.

So we do appreciate the feedback. It has helped immensely to make every episode better and better. Episode 3 has received a lot of praise and it's because we listened to this feedback, and we'll continue to listen as we go, but there are also things we cannot change at this point without having to cause a major rework. There's also the fact that the story's tone, for what The Silver Lining is, is also one we are extremely happy with, and that is something that may not be everyone's cup of tea.

Thanks and sorry for the long email :)

MusicallyInspired

09/12/2011, 03:01 pm

Applause-deserving post deserves applause.

Blackthorne519

09/12/2011, 06:12 pm

Right on Cez. That was a great post.

Bt

Lambonius

09/13/2011, 07:21 am

The conversations needed an editing pass that they never got, mainly because we were scrambling to finish the script in time for when recordings started. So, Katie did a great job, but only in fixing my broken English --since it's not my native tongue and back then, it was very broken.

With narrations, we took the wrong turn when the demo feedback requested for more. I think we had the right amount back then, as we never received this type of feedback then. And then I unleashed a self-indulgent beast I should have never released.

*Sobs*

Thank you. THANK YOU!

With that admission, I can now die happy.

My life is complete.

BagginsKQ

09/13/2011, 07:31 am

I'm glad to hear, of these improvements, and looking forward to playing the new episode...

I know I was very vocal about those issues!

KatieHal

09/13/2011, 10:50 am

The "beast" being let loose is why there's a joke about long narrations somewhere in, I think, the IoW Garden--I was sick to death of editing them, deleted one and wrote that instead!

I still give Cez grief about that damn grapes narration in the IoW garden, heh. :P

Cez

09/13/2011, 09:31 pm

I will never hear the end of the grapes story ;)

KatieHal

09/14/2011, 05:54 am

No, Cez--WE will never hear the end of the grapes story! :p

caeska

10/30/2011, 01:39 am

MusicallyInspired

10/30/2011, 09:26 am

Why? Because you gave them your hard-earned internet cookies and you're entitled to "customer service"? You're not a customer, you're a fan. Wait your turn.

And if you were being sarcastic, then redirect this to whoever isn't.

wilco64256

10/30/2011, 10:09 am

And now episode 4 has November 6th as a release date, according to this trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hEnPvghuvY).
This is unacceptable. When they say it's going to release it October, they had damn well better release it in October too, and by an October release I do not mean October 31st.
If I could be arsed to make an account, I'd go over to the PoS forums and tell them exactly what I think.

We had quite a bit of other stuff going on in October that ate into our time a little bit and we wanted to make sure we released a solid Episode. Since you don't even have an account, I'm not sure why you care so much. But if you did have an account you might have noticed the frustration that came up when we released Episode 3 without giving ourselves the proper amount of breathing room and there were some fairly annoying bugs. We have resolved all of those issues for this release and want to just be sure that we have a few days dedicated only to testing before we throw this episode out to the public.

And you're the only person I've seen who's even complained that instead of releasing the game this weekend we had a big party to announce our first major commercial title with guests from Fable Foundry showing off some really awesome stuff they're working on, various presentations, and even a visit from Jane Jensen. I guess if you really would have preferred a buggy and unfinished game over that then that's your own preference. Oh well.

caeska

10/31/2011, 01:47 am

MusicallyInspired

10/31/2011, 04:40 am

Right. "Screw you" was totally the intended message here.

Lambonius

10/31/2011, 07:23 am

Releasing a bug-free game is all well and good but what annoys me is you promising a release within a certain time frame and not upholding it.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who was mentally prepared for an October release, and coming with a trailer on the second-last of the month and giving a completely different release date is the equivalent of you telling your customer base "screw you".
It would have gone a long way of alleviating the frustration if you would have just informed the public of developments and posted some updates, but you didn't even do that. I don't think that's fair.

And you continue to come across as a whiny little bitch. The fact that the release date is literally a week away from your original bitchy post really makes you sound like an impatient little child. Might I suggest growing up and getting a life outside of complaining about not getting your free game sooner?

caeska

10/31/2011, 07:51 am

And you continue to come across as a whiny little bitch. The fact that the release date is literally a week away from your original bitchy post really makes you sound like an impatient little child. Might I suggest growing up and getting a life outside of complaining about not getting your free game sooner?

Oh, so we're resorting to insulting people now?
First of all, everyone's got a right to state their opinion. And secondly, yes, it is a big deal. Not getting what you're paying for always is.
I won't accept this kind off treatment.

Irishmile

10/31/2011, 09:18 am

Keep your debate respectful.. there is no reason for name calling... It is possible to disagree without being rude...

zhebrica

10/31/2011, 10:45 am

free game

not getting what you're paying for

?????

Lambonius

10/31/2011, 11:35 am

Hahaha...right. And what exactly did you pay for it again?

wilco64256

10/31/2011, 03:02 pm

Blackthorne519

10/31/2011, 03:08 pm

Sure, you can have a civil conversation. But this dude's being a bitch. I can literally see his swarthy body dripping with raging nerd sweat.

"I DEMAND MY FREE GAME!"

Sorry you find it so "unacceptable". Now here's a handkerchief to mop up your tears, man up, wait a couple days and play your free game.

Bt

wilco64256

10/31/2011, 03:58 pm

I now find this thread hilarious.

caeska

10/31/2011, 05:07 pm

I'm also tremendously curious about the "paid for" part. Exactly how much did you pay for TSL? By your own statement, you've never even created an account on our website so you haven't even downloaded the game period. So what exactly are you complaining about anyway? Something you weren't going to play not being done when you heard it was going to be done?

I don't understand what creating an account has to do with downloading the game episodes. I certainly can't recall ever creating one, and even if I have the forums and its discussions have no appeal or interest to me due to them appearing to be extremely unconstructive, which is why I won't bother.

So how can you say I haven't played your game when I have in fact played through the 3 episodes twice? There is something about that that makes no sense whatsoever.
And the cost of the game can be measured in the insanely large amounts of time and energy expended in both playing it and wasting time here pointing out its positive and negative aspects, which it is obvious that people seem intent on ignoring anyway. Just because it doesn't involve pure financial expenses doesn't mean to say there's no cost involved. Sheesh.

Now if people could stop with the name-calling and blatant disregard for forum etiquette and accept that overly late releases is NOT a done deal, it would be much appreciated.

Irishmile

10/31/2011, 05:56 pm

OK... caeska its a game that they put a ton of love and effort into without financial compensation.. If they are late give them a break... I dont care if its a year late... what they are doing for fans of KQ is great and appreciated.

Everyone else stop baiting him...

Debate all you want but name calling ends now MMMKAY?

wilco64256

10/31/2011, 06:38 pm

ITT - somebody cries because a game that's being made entirely by volunteers in their spare time took a few days longer than anticipated to finish up and he calls it being "overly" late.

Seriously though - not one other single person has complained about the release needing one extra week to make sure we do things as nicely as possible for the final game we're ever going to do in our current engine. I really don't understand why you're so incredibly upset - major commercial titles are often delayed far longer than this. I'd say getting a team of 70+ volunteers to finish something off only a week behind schedule is pretty freaking impressive.

Lambonius

10/31/2011, 07:52 pm

And the cost of the game can be measured in the insanely large amounts of time and energy expended in both playing it and wasting time here pointing out its positive and negative aspects

In honor of your valuable time:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/Lambonius/mooning.jpg

Blackthorne519

10/31/2011, 10:42 pm

There's a lot of white whine up in this thread. (http://www.whitewhine.com)

And the cost of the game can be measured in the insanely large amounts of time and energy expended in both playing it and wasting time here pointing out its positive and negative aspects, which it is obvious that people seem intent on ignoring anyway. Just because it doesn't involve pure financial expenses doesn't mean to say there's no cost involved. Sheesh.

This is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. Have you ever experienced ANY kind of real hardship in life? Seriously, the privilege of your position bleeds through everything you say. Playing it and COMMENTING about it COSTS YOU SOMETHING? Seriously, bite the big one, dude.

Bt

Chyron8472

11/01/2011, 04:21 am

MusicallyInspired

11/01/2011, 04:50 am

You need to make an account on the POS website (not the forums) in order to download the game. That's the only way you can officially get it.

The "cost of being a fan and commenting" crap is quite a ridiculous argument.

Cez

11/01/2011, 05:01 pm

Blackthorne has a point.

Speaking for myself, I'm not particularly interested in TSL given that it's apparently filled with much more drama and melancholy than the King's Quest franchise is known for.

I can appreciate the amount of time and effort put into a project, especially one that is available for free, but TSL's style isn't really my thing.

Of course I'm going to speak in pro of the game (duh!), but a lot of people have enjoyed TSL's gameplay (especially in episode 3) as a real throw back and challenge close to the Sierra days.

While I won't deny to you that there's a heavier drama tone than any past King's Quest, TSL also has its very lighthearted and adventurous side. There are also elements of it that have been well praised, like the music and the "attention to detail" 3D revamped Green Isles. If you like the Green Isles, there's also our view of what lies beyond some of the lands (Inside Chessboard land, past the gate of the Beast castle, inside the city of the Winged Ones, etc).

Yes, there's a dark tone that you may consider doesn't fit in a King's Quest game, but in all honesty, Tales of Monkey Isle also has its very dark moments (like the whole of Episode 4) that you don't see anywhere else in the series. TSL is not all about that tone either. it does have a collection of throwback moments that even the people that have had problems with its tone have thoroughly enjoyed.

Episode 1 was not really a good first impression. Give 2 and 3 a try, and then make up your mind. That's all I ask :)

I'd also recommend waiting until this sunday and grabbing the whole build of ep1-4 which contains all of the Green Isles and the culmination of our work in many ways (since Ep45 will take place in the Dreamworld, and will employ a new engine). It's also more stable since we killed a bug that was causing random crashes to some machines.

You can see the trailer to Episode 4 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hEnPvghuvY&feature=related

wilco64256

11/01/2011, 05:34 pm

since Ep45 will take place in the Dreamworld

The other 41 episodes from now til then will continue to take place in the Green Isles. We have 10 whole episodes solely dedicated to Graham counseling people who are depressed.

Lambonius

11/01/2011, 07:59 pm

The other 41 episodes from now til then will continue to take place in the Green Isles. We have 10 whole episodes solely dedicated to Graham counseling people who are depressed.

Lol...Not funny.

Yes, there's a dark tone that you may consider doesn't fit in a King's Quest game, but in all honesty, Tales of Monkey Isle also has its very dark moments (like the whole of Episode 4) that you don't see anywhere else in the series.

Let's see...Tales of Monkey Island Episode 4...that was the one set at night, wasn't it? Is that what you mean?

Cez

11/01/2011, 08:16 pm

Lol...Not funny.

Let's see...Tales of Monkey Island Episode 4...that was the one set at night, wasn't it? Is that what you mean?

lol no. I mean...

no spoilers tags here? Or am I too tired to see it?

SPOILERS***

Guybrush and Morgan murdered by stabbing, plus the whole stuff going on with the Voodoo lady is not exactly your definition of lightness. If I recall correctly, Monkey Island never really treated that stuff as serious as it was handled in ep4. But I could be wrong.

END OF SPOILERS**

Cez

11/01/2011, 09:17 pm

[QUOTE=Cez;553983]lol no. I mean...

no spoilers tags here? Or am I too tired to see it?

Guybrush and Morgan murdered by stabbing, plus the whole stuff going on with the Voodoo lady is not exactly your definition of lightness. If I recall correctly, Monkey Island never really treated that stuff as serious as it was handled in ep4. But I could be wrong.

I'm not drawing a parallel or using it as an excuse. I'm proud of what we've done with TSL, and we all like the tone in our team. We feel it fits what we wanted to do and the statement we wanted to give about the type of games we want to make. There are things I'd redo if I could, but the tone is not one of them. I will say, however, that I do understand it's not the tone I'd give a King's Quest if we didn't have the "freedom" of being a fan project.

Woodsyblue

11/01/2011, 09:45 pm

no spoilers tags here? Or am I too tired to see it?

There are spoiler tags here. Just write "spoiler" in square brackets (without the quotation marks, obviously), followed by spoilery information, followed by "/spoiler" in square brackets. Like this :)

Cez

11/01/2011, 10:16 pm

There are spoiler tags here. Just write "spoiler" in square brackets (without the quotation marks, obviously), followed by spoilery information, followed by "/spoiler" in square brackets. Like this :)

Thanks!!

been too sleep depraved for the past two weeks!

Blackthorne519

11/02/2011, 04:24 am

Thanks!!

been too sleep depraved for the past two weeks!

Hahah, sleep depraved? Have you been committing base and vile acts in your sleep again, Cez? Methinks you're sleep deprived!

Bt

Lambonius

11/02/2011, 04:47 am

Hahah, sleep depraved? Have you been committing base and vile acts in your sleep again, Cez?

YES! He's been raping my childhood!!! haha

Cez

11/02/2011, 07:25 am

LOL, Exactly, Lamb! That's precisely what I meant!

Man, I need to go to bed now...!

KatieHal

11/06/2011, 01:03 pm

Episode 4 is now available for one and all!

Head on over, download and enjoy!

http://www.tsl-game.com/episode_iv.php

der_ketzer

11/07/2011, 10:04 pm

yay. Downloading it now.

Mr. Freeze

11/09/2011, 06:41 pm

Telltale, take notes. Although TSL did get a lot of things right and it IS an overall fun game (and this is the best episode to date), there are a LOT of things they got wrong.

Besides the obvious problems with cliche dialogue and an unnecessary need to tie everything together (although it is interesting to watch it unfold to an extent), I also have problems with the formatting of the game. It just seems a bit too.... formulaic. King's Quest has never been about chasing down specific items for a spell the whole game, it's more about having a general objective and picking up items along the way that you happen to find useful to you later on (I know you can argue that KQ4 is about finding the fruit, but you're not constantly reminded that that's your primary objective. You can explore the world and do LOTS of things and you soon forget that that's what you were even there for in the first place). On that note, it's also incredibly annoying to have to travel across the entire world looking for a specific item when most of the world is unchanging and not that fleshed out/interactive - not to mention the long loading times between screens.

Also, the retry button ruins any sense of danger. There's also hardly any deaths.

The boss fight, however, they got right. It was really fun and looked great. I would prefer making it so that you can react the whole time, instead of having to choose your move beforehand, but that's just me.

The Pandora's box puzzle before the boss fight, though, was a definite NO. PLEASE don't put anything like this in these games. It would have been ok if you only had to do 1 side, but that was just FAR too tedious. I know Cez made the defense that he wanted the player to feel the frustration that Valanice was feeling, but I don't like that logic. I think making the viewer feel frustrated is an effective artistic technique in other areas of expression - such as film or even music, but people play games solely for fun... and that simply was not fun. It didn't even feel rewarding after beating it.

Anyways, that's just my two cents.

KatieHal

11/10/2011, 05:21 am

Thanks for the feedback! And glad you're generally enjoying the game. :)

We've been interested in particular about feedback on those two puzzles/events/sequences--the box and the fight. An interesting range of answers have come back, but we like getting it all so we can make future attempts in Episode 5 or Cognition (http://www.cognitiongame.com) (our upcoming first commercial game) even better.

Lambonius

11/10/2011, 02:05 pm

Simo Sakari Aaltonen

11/11/2011, 06:24 am

My recommendation would be to slap Cesar's grubby little hands and shout a resounding "NO!" when he tries to put his foot down regarding ridiculous design decisions that he has (for some reason) gotten emotionally attached to. Sometimes children need to be disciplined for their own good before they'll learn. lol

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/user_images/DanBackslide-405338_604_403.jpg

Never mind, César! Keep doing what you think is right.

Anakin Skywalker

11/11/2011, 07:25 am

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/user_images/DanBackslide-405338_604_403.jpg

Never mind, César! Keep doing what you think is right.

"yes man
your party counterpart that will agree to *anything* regardless of how crazy or stupid - and sometimes illegal - it is, who can meet or beat your intoxication level and still remain as coherent as you are"

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yes%20man

Blackthorne519

11/11/2011, 12:34 pm

Sycophant (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sycophant)

Beware the sycophants.

Bt

Chyron8472

11/11/2011, 08:39 pm

As a diehard King's Quest fan, I must say that I will never truly be interested in playing TSL. I've played through part of Episode 1, and I just have to say that it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel like King's Quest.

Speaking from my own experience on KQ1-7, each game had its own land to explore--there was no re-exploration of the same land (except a teeny bit of Daventry at the end of 3); there wasn't any obvious fan-service related content (unless you count seeing cat-Manannan again as fan service, which I don't); and there certainly wasn't a looming melancholy tone over the plots of any of the games.

But what clinched it most of all for me against playing TSL was to catch a bit of spoilery info about Manannan's relationship to Valanice. That's just... wrong in so many ways. I mean, really. I just can't abide that at all.

I don't want Telltale Games to take TSL as a learning experience for themselves, as I don't want TTG's KQ to be at all like TSL.

Other KQ fans can like TSL if they so choose, but for myself, I'm not going to play it as I don't want it to reconningly ruin my perceptions of the canon games by adding knowledge about characters that shouldn't (and as far as the canon is concerned, doesn't) exist.

I don't want to be mean or rude. It just that my spoiler tagged mention really really does bother me alot. It would have been better that I remained ignorant of such an idea.

puzzlebox

11/11/2011, 09:26 pm

A reminder here to refrain from personal attacks - keep the criticism constructive and relevant please.

Simo Sakari Aaltonen

11/11/2011, 10:00 pm

Anakin and Blackthorne, please refrain from personal insults. When you have something constructive to say, please say it constructively... Otherwise this will be my last reply to you. Thank you.

I admire the work and achievements of César and his team - that doesn't mean I agree with all their creative choices, nor was such implied in my message of support. I don't have to agree with everything someone does in order to appreciate what they do and lend them my support! Nor does César himself agree with all his own choices in hindsight - and he's big enough to say so - but the important thing is he always follows his heart when making his choices, and I won't fault anyone for that.

My message to them is still: keep doing whatever you believe is best. That's my message to everyone. It says nothing about not listening to feedback. Ultimately the choice is still made by the individual based on what she or he believes is right.

I think it's unfortunate that the atmosphere of this forum has deteriorated due to the influence of a small group of "haters" (for lack of a better word, sorry), some of whom actually come from the KQ fan-game community. :confused: That genuinely saddens me and makes me wonder if they remember what made them KQ fans in the first place. Maybe they do.

I assume most of us are here because we love King's Quest - not because we hate what other fans are doing. I mean, the last thing King's Quest is about - except when it comes to the villains - is hate.

I'm sorry if any of this was too negative in tone... I respect so many people over here, but it upsets me to see the hostility over and over. :confused:

MusicallyInspired

11/12/2011, 05:04 am

der_ketzer

11/12/2011, 09:43 am

I enjoy the new artsy style of the graphics. (http://steamcommunity.com/id/come_on_fhqwhgads/screenshot/631856881884711726?tab=public)

Blackthorne519

11/12/2011, 03:18 pm

Cez

11/12/2011, 05:26 pm

you guys make a lot of assumption on how our team works. It's rather insulting to the team, really, to assume that I have a team at my disposal just doing and implementing everything I want, the way I want it.

Sometimes I wish it was that easy ;) If anything, the Art Director gets more his way than I do sometimes to be honest :) I was ready to cut Shadrack's fight two weeks ago when it wasn't still fully implemented, because I was nervous it wasn't going to be fully finished, but Rich pushed to keep it in, and we kept it in because of him. And, although I designed Pandora's Box puzzle, the end result was an interaction between Rich, Weldon and myself, with feedback from the testers in between that caused a bunch of changes.

It's fun to see assumptions flying all around, especially when they are so far from being what actually happens :)

And Simo, yes, I feel you. Some people are just hellbent in bringing some stuff down with every little chance they have. Really, it's sad to see so much energy spent on it, but hey, whatever rocks their boat.

MusicallyInspired

11/12/2011, 06:35 pm

I think they're referring to your fans and audience not your team.

Lambonius

11/12/2011, 06:42 pm

I think they're referring to your fans and audience not your team.

Nah, I was referring to both.

MusicallyInspired

11/12/2011, 06:51 pm

Oh, well ok then!

Simo Sakari Aaltonen

11/12/2011, 07:06 pm

I wasn't really trying to attack - I just felt sycophant was a more elaborate word than "yes man".

I do think it's good advice, though - avoid the sycophants. When you surround yourself with people who have no backbone and laud your every movement, it dilutes the quality of your output. I enjoy working with people who, if they disagree, are able to tell me and communicate it clearly.

Bt

Blackthorne, thank you for clarifying. I agree with what you wrote here.

I want to share a personal story concerning honesty and lack of pretence. It has nothing to do with King's Quest, though, so anyone not interested, please skip it...

I grew up in a small, backwards Finnish town between 1978 and 1998. I had a happy childhood up until the 7th grade. By that point the virtues I mentioned above (honesty and lack of pretence) had become so important to me that I took an open stand in support of gay people, against the views of my homophobic classmates.

I did this because I felt even then that it was important to stand up for truth and what you believe in, and I did it with the knowledge that it was social suicide in that time and place. Word got around and as a result of what I had said, I lived practically friendless between the ages of 12 and 18. I don't need to tell you they were long, lonely years. All I had done was make a stand for truth. It cost me plenty, but I'd do it again.

The point is that honesty is one of the most important things to me in this life. I've made a commitment to it since I was old enough to consider the subject abstractly. If I tell you that I like or support something, I'm telling you the truth. I simply don't have the time or energy in this life to waste in saying things that are not true. No one needs to agree. I'm here not to convert, I'm here to share.

A "yes-man" or "sycophant" is someone who lies hoping for personal gain. That's one of the worst, most deeply insulting things anyone could call me. If I was like that, I'd have taken the very easy (in the short run) way out back then by giving in to the prevailing gay-bashing attitudes.

As far as I'm concerned, screw personal gain. I need to be able to look at myself in the mirror and know that I've been truthful. I'll be damned before compromising on this. Besides, lying always ends up biting you in the ass sooner or later, if by no other means, then psychologically - and if you think that would not be so bad, you have another think coming. So even for selfish people, it's simply a bad idea. Everyone will learn this either the easy or the hard way.

So to reiterate, I admire a lot of what César and the rest of the TSL team have done. If anyone has a problem with that - me liking things - obviously that's not my problem. Another of my ideals dictates that I not always and routinely make everyone else suffer for it if I happen to dislike something I come across. I don't feel the need to bash everything just to prove how strong my views are or whatever. Anything I create myself will be imperfect. I know that. Why would I assume the same two points would not be true of everyone else?

We are all learning. And we all need to give ourselves and each other the space to enjoy what we have for what it is. We only have a limited amount of time left. A lot of people here are in their twenties or thirties (I'm 33 myself) and have already used up a quarter or third or more of our expected lifespans. So let's make the time we have together worthwhile by appreciating the good things. By all means, share the bad as well - be honest - but do it gently, not in a way that just makes us all unhappy. That is not what we are here for.

P.S. Thank you, Cez. You're right, it's their choice... It's just sad to think that even the most bitter "haters" (still can't think of a better word) out there were once wide-eyed children - bless them - captivated by the innocent magic of King's Quest, with their whole lives ahead of them, potentially full of wonder... only for it to come to this. I don't mean this as an insult, I feel genuinely sad for them. Something went wrong somewhere. :confused:

Lambonius

11/12/2011, 07:51 pm

Simo Sakari Aaltonen

11/12/2011, 08:52 pm

But why do you keep doing this to yourself? You don't have to play and if you don't like what TSL does, the originals are still there. Like Raymond Chandler (I think it was) said when asked if he was troubled by what Hollywood had done to his books, he waved his hand at his bookshelf, with his books on it, and said that his books were fine, nothing had been done to them.

I understand it can be upsetting to see something you grew up loving treated in a way that simply doesn't work for you. I had a similar (but milder) reaction to what happened to the Star Trek sequel series after Gene Roddenberry's death. At some point I realised I had to let go and stop watching because it was so disappointing to me. I took a long break, but have since resumed watching, now better able to appreciate them for what they are rather than what I tried to find in them back then.

One thing that makes this an imperfect comparison is that I was reacting to official Star Trek, whereas TSL is not canon. I think it is not TSL that has harmed your perception of the magic of "your" King's Quest, but your own reactions and actions may have done that. But no permanent damage has been done in any case, I'm positive. I think that you may be seeing TSL as looming too large right now, but will come to see it in a more realistic perspective, as just one part among many in the KQ fandom.

Sorry if any of this sounds harsh. And of course all this is just my opinion and I may be wrong. But I believe works of entertainment don't really have the power to make or break what we love, even if what we love is other, earlier works of entertainment. Trust me, the originals retain all their charm and are appreciated by many people, and many more will "rediscover the magic" when The Art of Sierra comes out.

In any case, I wish you well. There are so many good things out there to enjoy and appreciate!

der_ketzer

11/13/2011, 03:36 am

I enjoy the new artsy style of the graphics. (http://steamcommunity.com/id/come_on_fhqwhgads/screenshot/631856881884711726?tab=public)

Oh god this crap is reproduceable. Every time I go to this place my game gets screwed (http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/631856881898902514/797F2CF47500DC2935D4751D51C289D0D72EF3BF/).

Anakin Skywalker

11/13/2011, 06:47 am

I was indeed captivated by the "innocent magic of King's Quest." I approached TSL with excitement and enthusiasm. Then that innocence and magic tried to throw herself off a balcony and shove ham-fisted Star Wars rip-offs down my throat.

Amen. That's what people seem to forget, that many of the TSL "haters" started off as fans who were enthusiastic about a KQ sequel--even if it was a fan sequel. I can't speak for Lamb, but I know that I was a big time fan of TSL until the later trailers (nearing release) and first episode came out. I eagerly awaited it's release, and in the mean time, tried to promote the game to my friends and even family. I remember showing the trailer which came out during the 2005 Anniversary party to people I knew and being enthusiastic and excited.

Spending 7 years waiting for a game (I came upon TSL in 2003, don't know about Lamb) and then having it basically be horrible and basically violate everything KQ was about, while claiming to uphold and even revive the spirit of the originals, was a big time disappointment, and was insulting actually. It's one thing if the team said, "This is gonna be real different", but they didn't. They went into this saying it was going to be a return to the old days, the pre-Mask era. That it was a return to normalcy, basically.

Yeah, we always had a hint that it was going to be a bit more "mature"--But "more mature" in the context of KQ, at least to me, meant something like KQ6. That's not my favorite game in the series, but it's also not a horribly written teen fantasy story which rips off Star Wars and inserts tons of stuff which has nothing to do with, nor has any place in, King's Quest. Stuff that would have a much more fitting home in a Twilight or Kingdom Hearts sequel. And KQ6, while being more mature in many aspects, doesn't have a consistently melancholy, dark and soap opera-ish tone. And it's dialogue isn't nearly as bad, either.

So instead of a "return to normalcy" or even a slighter more mature game ala KQ6, instead we got a game which has an overwrought, badly written plot, J-RPG inspired fight scenes, and backstories and character connections that are just totally pulled out of the air. Fan service abounds. Everyone seems to be connected to someone else in a very Star Wars-prequel-esque fashion. Valanice tries to commit suicide. It's not what you expect when you think of a "KQ" game.

Yeah, sure, I'll have the original games. But fan project or not, they will feel pretty tarnished by what TSL presents. Given that Cesar will likely have some role or influence on TT's KQ, I doubt that TSL will ever fade into just being "one part among many" in the KQ fandom. The final episode won't be out until sometime next year, anyway, and in that time, it's going to be milked as much as they can milk it.

Blackthorne519

11/13/2011, 07:00 am

Anakin Skywalker

11/13/2011, 07:10 am

I think you're getting a touch paranoid there, man. I don't think Cesar will have any large impact on TT's KQ - if any at all.

If you let TSL "tarnish" the original games in any way, you're giving power to TSL, and that's your own fault. The original games stand on their own. If needs be, just look at it how I look at - Graham ate a bad burrito after MoE, and had a bad nightmare. That nightmare was the Silver Lining. The next day, he woke up, and went about frolicking in the Daventry Countryside, picking carrots and tempting goats, as usual.

All was well until that Goat decided to start talking, though....

Bt

Just seems given his ego, his arrogance and his connection to TT (he's a former employee there who seems to still have many friends there), I can't see how his game wouldn't influence TT's even in some small way, given how over-exposed and over-promoted TSL has been. He wouldn't let TSL fade and be just another KQ fan game like that. That's not grandiose enough for him. Hell, this is a guy who wants to work on an SQ7 even though he likely knows the SQ fan base wouldn't want him anywhere near it--It's all for his own glory. Of all the fan games, TSL will probably be the first one looked at by TT as a sign of "what KQ fans want" in a KQ sequel, moreso than the other fan projects, because it's gotten much more attention over the years. And again, his tie with them is worrying.

I suppose you could look at it that way, it's just given that as it stands it's the only 3D KQ game outside of Mask, and the fact that I spent seven years waiting for it, the memory of it is hard to just toss aside as being "Graham had some bad burritos from Taco Bell". I had very high hopes for TSL given how grandly it was promoted, and given the fact that in 2003, 2004, 2005, etc it seemed to be the only way we'd ever see an adventure game involving the Royal Family again. Those were some pretty exciting times--and I wasn't the only one who shared the awestruck enthusiasm over TSL. And those high hopes were burnt, badly. Perhaps I shouldn't have blindly supported them back when I did, but I was only 13.

If they had told us the extent of just how much it was going to differ in spirit, tone and atmosphere from the originals, I probably wouldn't dislike it as much, because I would've known what to expect, and tempered my expectations as such. I don't dislike KQ8 as much because we were never told it was going to be the same; In fact, we were told explicitly to expect something very different from the very outset. When you go in to a game (or even a movie sequel or a book sequel, etc) with certain expectations, that expectation colors your perception upon playing it. With TSL, I expected, given what we were told, a game akin to KQ6--Slightly more mature, with a more sophisticated plot. Which is not what TSL is. It goes way beyond what KQ6 did.

A good chunk of this disappointment is indeed my own fault. My own expectations were perhaps too high, but then, when you're promised some sort of epic, as a naive kid, can you expect anything less? I was a young kid who thought the idea of going back to the Green Isles would be amazing--like a return to an old, happy memory or a return to a bright beautiful place you once visited. I didn't understand the concepts of "fan service" or "cliches" at 13. I was just pumped up by blind nostalgia and by a sadness at the death of Sierra and here seemed to be the chance for that death to have not been in vain. I didn't understand the KQ series quite as well in 2003 as I do now. And given my understanding of what KQ is--and isn't--I can't support TSL.

doggans

11/13/2011, 08:19 am

Spending 7 years waiting for a game (I came upon TSL in 2003, don't know about Lamb) and then having it basically be horrible and basically violate everything KQ was about, while claiming to uphold and even revive the spirit of the originals, was a big time disappointment, and was insulting actually.

Two questions:

1. Is it really so hard to accept that "the spirit of King's Quest" and "everything King's Quest is about" might mean something different to the TSL team than it does to you or me?

2. Is ANY piece of entertainment ever REALLY worth feeling insulted over?

Blackthorne519

11/13/2011, 08:23 am

Heh. Listen, I've been a King's Quest fan longer than you've been alive. The series will be just fine. Don't give yourself heartburn over all this.

Bt

Anakin Skywalker

11/13/2011, 08:39 am

Two questions:

1. Is it really so hard to accept that "the spirit of King's Quest" and "everything King's Quest is about" might mean something different to the TSL team than it does to you or me?

2. Is ANY piece of entertainment ever REALLY worth feeling insulted over?

1. It's just I don't see how someone could see TSL after playing KQ1-7/8. I don't think it was so much care for the "spirit of KQ" on their part as much as it was putting ideas that wouldn't otherwise get attention into a beloved series. Nothing to do with love or care for KQ.

2. It's an insult in the context of being consistently lied to, being assured and made to expect one thing and getting something very different from what we were told to expect. Perhaps insult is the wrong word. Maybe incredibly disappointed.

MusicallyInspired

11/13/2011, 09:56 am

Love for KQ, but not care. POS has stated numerous times that they were doing what they wanted with KQ and not necesssarily what the fans wanted. I'm just surprised so many fans are still attached to it seeing as it's so far removed from anything KQ has been about. I guess they're just so KQ-satrved they'll accept anything that has a chance at life for the series. The fact of the matter is, the fans have poured their support into TSL and made it as popular as it is. That's not POS's work. They had a PR campaign of course, but if the fans weren't interested and didn't want to support it and didn't like what they saw (and are seeing) no amount of PR would have worked at all.

I was never a fan of TSL even before the initial release because I knew what was coming from what a few inside sources told me years ago.

Lambonius

11/13/2011, 01:09 pm

Watching LPs of TSL (let alone actually playing it) makes my asshole hurt. Literally. I don't think I'm alone in taking offense to that kind of thing.

doggans

11/13/2011, 01:52 pm

1. It's just I don't see how someone could see TSL after playing KQ1-7/8.

Fair enough, but I wouldn't have necessarily seen KQ3 as the next logical step after KQ2, and I *certainly* wouldn't have seen KQ7 after KQ6, or KQ8 after KQ7.

My point here was that you're judging the game based on an intangible "spirit of King's Quest", but the essential elements that you or I include in the definition of "King's Quest" might be different than the essential elements that the POS team does. If one simply defines "King's Quest" as "a fantasy adventure where a hero goes on a high-stakes quest against evil and explores a dangerous and magical land filled with creatures from legends, myths, and fairy tales", then TSL fits, regardless of its quality.

Perhaps insult is the wrong word. Maybe incredibly disappointed.

Good call. If you're really feeling insulted/betrayed/offended because a piece of entertainment goes in a different direction than you would like, you probably need to rethink your priorities in life. :P

Cez

11/13/2011, 02:30 pm

I'm just surprised so many fans are still attached to it seeing as it's so far removed from anything KQ has been about. I guess they're just so KQ-satrved they'll accept anything that has a chance at life for the series.

Why does there has to be an "external" reason for fans to like TSL other than the game itself? To start with, that statement of TSL being so detached from anything that is KQ the biggest exaggeration possible. And people that are open to see a different take on it enjoy it for what it is.

That's like saying the same for The Wizard of Oz and Wicked, the book. Is the dark and gritty story of the book a best-seller because people were starving for anything Wizard of Oz related? and moreover, is the (much) lighter Broadway play such a major success, --when it turns the universe of Oz upside down, and changes all character's intentions-- just because people are starving for it? --because if that's so, that means that the very obscure Disney's Return to Oz would have been a major success. Do all the different takes on Batman over the many years of its life enjoy success because people are starving for it? Did Disney do something wrong by transforming all Grimm fairy tales and popular stories like Aladdin into something they were not, and thus, were people starved for them to the point that they took whatever Disney threw on them? No, if people don't find something to their liking, no matter how starved they are, they won't take it. Just because you don't find it to your liking, doesn't mean that other people don't genuinely do. Period.

And the biggest example is that at least 70% of us in the TSL team are all KQ fans, and we all like it. So, isn't it a better thing to say that the people that support TSL maybe just don't think like you do?

I approached TSL with excitement and enthusiasm.

Ha! Lamb, you and I have a history of fun and hate, and I enjoy our little interactions, but c'mon man, that has got to be the biggest load of crap I've ever heard you say, and you know it. You were bashing TSL even before Ep1 was released (and after having loved the demo). :)

Anakin Skywalker

11/13/2011, 02:41 pm

Why does there has to be an "external" reason for fans to like TSL other than the game itself? To start with, that statement of TSL being so detached from anything that is KQ the biggest exaggeration possible. And people that are open to see a different take on it enjoy it for what it is.

That's like saying the same for The Wizard of Oz and Wicked, the book. Is the dark and gritty story of the book a best-seller because people were starving for anything Wizard of Oz related? Do all the different takes on Batman over the many years of its life enjoy success because people are starving for it? Did Disney do something wrong by transforming all Grimm fairy tales and popular stories like Aladdin into something they were not, and thus, were people starved for them to the point that they took whatever Disney threw on them? No, if people don't find something to their liking, no matter how starved they are, they won't take it. Just because you don't find it to your liking, doesn't mean that other people don't genuinely do. Period.

And the biggest example is that at least 70% of us in the TSL team are all KQ fans, and we all like it. So, isn't it a better thing to say that the people that support TSL maybe just don't think like you do?

Ha! Lamb, you and I have a history of fun and hate, and I enjoy our little interactions, but c'mon man, that has got to be the biggest load of crap I've ever heard you say, and you know it. You were bashing TSL even before Ep1 was released (and after having loved the demo). :)

All the works you mention were either reboots or adaptations. They were not self proclaimed sequels, extending an existing continuity. With the case of Batman, each Batman series does not rely on the continuity of the previous films, for example, Nolan's films are not in the same continuity as Tim Burton's. He does not rely on information provided in Burton's films for the backbone of his own. Disney didn't claim that Aladdin was a sequel to the Arabian nights; It's an adaptation, same for all their other literary and fairy tale inspired works.

And before you say, "Our game isn't called King's Quest 9", let's not forget that it WAS called King's Quest 9 for about 5 years, only until you told by Vivendi to change the title. You were claiming to be the sequel to the continuity of 8 previous games. You never claimed that TSL was to be a reboot, a restart, nothing of the sort. You claimed from the very beginning that it was a sequel founded firmly on the roots and in the continuity which the previous games had established.

And obviously if Lamb loved the demo (which was three or so scenes in the Green Isles), he had, at some point, enthusiasm for the project. Which was destroyed when the crapfest which was the full game came out or when the trailers which showed how dark and angsty the game really was going to be.

Cez

11/13/2011, 03:05 pm

All the works you mention were either reboots or adaptations. They were not self proclaimed sequels, extending an existing continuity. With the case of Batman, each Batman series does not rely on the continuity of the previous films, for example, Nolan's films are not in the same continuity as Tim Burton's. He does not rely on information provided in Burton's films for the backbone of his own. Disney didn't claim that Aladdin was a sequel to the Arabian nights; It's an adaptation, same for all their other literary and fairy tale inspired works.

And before you say, "Our game isn't called King's Quest 9", let's not forget that it WAS called King's Quest 9 for about 5 years, only until you told by Vivendi to change the title. You were claiming to be the sequel to the continuity of 8 previous games. You never claimed that TSL was to be a reboot, a restart, nothing of the sort. You claimed from the very beginning that it was a sequel founded firmly on the roots and in the continuity which the previous games had established.

And obviously if Lamb loved the demo (which was three or so scenes in the Green Isles), he had, at some point, enthusiasm for the project. Which was destroyed when the crapfest which was the full game came out or when the trailers which showed how dark and angsty the game really was going to be.

1) Heh, the demo and Episode 1 were basically the same game. Ep1 had 10 more minutes tagged to it than the demo did. So, loving the demo, hating Ep1, is a incredible head-scratching notion to me.
2) I always said that this game was going to be much darker than any previous KQ. I never sold it as anything else.
3) Wicked isn't a reboot of Wizard of Oz. It tells the story of what "really" happened to the Witches. It changed the whole perspective anyone could have had on The Wizard of Oz. Quite frankly, TSL has done something very similar to what Wicked has done.
4) To me, it's still a sequel. It's a continuation of the events that happened in the previous 8 games. I'm not selling it as a reboot because it's not a reboot. I'm glad we were forced to change the name to TSL from KQIX, but it is still a sequel, not a reboot.
5) You'd still be whining no matter what we had called it.
6) Oh, Roberta played it and liked it :)

Anakin Skywalker

11/13/2011, 03:21 pm

1) Heh, the demo and Episode 1 were basically the same game. Ep1 had 10 more minutes tagged to it than the demo did. So, loving the demo, hating Ep1, is a incredible head-scratching notion to me.
2) I always said that this game was going to be much darker than any previous KQ. I never sold it as anything else.
3) Wicked isn't a reboot of Wizard of Oz. It tells the story of what "really" happened to the Witches. It changed the whole perspective anyone could have had on The Wizard of Oz. Quite frankly, TSL has done something very similar to what Wicked has done.
4) To me, it's still a sequel. It's a continuation of the events that happened in the previous 8 games. I'm not selling it as a reboot because it's not a reboot. I'm glad we were forced to change the name to TSL from KQIX, but it is still a sequel, not a reboot.
5) You'd still be whining no matter what we had called it.
6) Oh, Roberta played it and liked it :)

1) I can't speak for Lamb. When he gets here, he'll clarify.
2) You said it was going to be more mature. You never said it was going to be the incredibly dark, twisted, retconny mess that it is.
3) Wicked is basically a reboot that doesn't call itself one. It's basically revisionism...
4) A sequel that basically invalidates or retcons everything in almost every previous game. It's not a continuation of the events because it goes back and retells those events very differently.
5) It'd still be crap no matter what you called it.
6) Wasn't her statement made when the first episode came out? You know it's funny. Jane Jensen--co-creator of the most mature real KQ game--said in your own chat with her (in which you announced Cognition) that it was dark for KQ, and that Roberta had a very specific vision for the series. I'd tend to agree with that as even after the fact Roberta mentioned how KQ6 sort of deviated from the usual style due to Jane's influence. I truly doubt if Roberta were in the game's business today that she would've turned KQ into a mopey soap opera on par in quality with Twilight.

Cez

11/13/2011, 03:31 pm

Can you tell me how exactly is Wicked a reboot of Wizard of Oz? All Wicked tried to do is give an explanation to all the events that took place in Wizard of Oz that we were not seeing by following Dorothy's storyline, and in the process, retconned the hell out of it. It changed all the intentions of the Wicked Witch of the West portraying her as a good person that was forced to be seen as an evil witch. It never changed the actual events of The Wizard of Oz, it was fully based on them, it just did a retcon on its backstory, explaining things like why did Dorothy "kill" the witch with water, and so on. If that's a reboot, you may as well call TSL a reboot, if that's what you find convenient. Now, does that make you like it more?

As far as what Roberta thinks or doesn't think, she played Episode 1, which is as dark and gritty as everything else, and wrote a review. Roberta is an incredibly hard person to reach. It would have been the easiest thing to do to just ignore the email, not play the game, and not have made any comments. If she felt compelled to do so, and liked it, it's because whatever she saw in it, she was fine with it. You can say whatever you want, think whatever you want, but what Roberta wrote in that email to us is the only true statement there exists. Unless you want to call her a liar now, too, in order to defend your point of view.

Anakin Skywalker

11/13/2011, 03:42 pm

KatieHal

11/13/2011, 03:45 pm

Rofl

Man, what are you guys gonna do when the fifth episode is released and you can't do this anymore? You'll have to find something new to hate and rant about, I guess. :)

Anakin Skywalker

11/13/2011, 03:47 pm

Rofl

Man, what are you guys gonna do when the fifth episode is released and you can't do this anymore? You'll have to find something new to hate and rant about, I guess. :)

Actually, we'll all be breathing a sigh of relief that the shitshow is over.

KatieHal

11/13/2011, 03:50 pm

Nah, you've way too much energy for it to be that simple ;)

Cez

11/13/2011, 03:51 pm

Why bother? You'll just pull the "Roberta liked Episode 1 which means she agreed 100% with our direction which means TSL is an official game, are you going to call Roberta a liar?" card again.

No, I didn't say that. I just said, Roberta played episode 1 and liked it. I really prefer to stick to facts, so it's just better to quote her directly:

“…I am deeply honored that a group of devoted fans have dedicated themselves to reviving the characters, lands and quests of my adventure game series, King’s Quest. Without the bravery and persistence of these volunteers – and it should be stressed that this game was developed by fans over ten long years without pay and in their own free time -- it is almost certain that King’s Quest would have been relegated to a forgotten obscurity – its story left untold. Now, there is a chance that many can truly find out what happens to the royal family of the Kingdom of Daventry.

This game is very true to the original series and features many of the storylines and characters, especially, of King’s Quest VI. I found it beautiful and fun to play. I, too, like many other fans, would like to see how this story unfolds!

Roberta Williams "

Anakin Skywalker

11/13/2011, 03:53 pm

No, I didn't say that. I just said, Roberta played episode 1 and liked it. I really prefer to stick to facts, so it's just better to quote her directly:

“…I am deeply honored that a group of devoted fans have dedicated themselves to reviving the characters, lands and quests of my adventure game series, King’s Quest. Without the bravery and persistence of these volunteers – and it should be stressed that this game was developed by fans over ten long years without pay and in their own free time -- it is almost certain that King’s Quest would have been relegated to a forgotten obscurity – its story left untold. Now, there is a chance that many can truly find out what happens to the royal family of the Kingdom of Daventry.

This game is very true to the original series and features many of the storylines and characters, especially, of King’s Quest VI. I found it beautiful and fun to play. I, too, like many other fans, would like to see how this story unfolds!

Roberta Williams "

You're a hero, Cesar. Let me kiss your ass like your fanboys do every day on your forum.