Big ISPs are creating a backdoor SOPA this weekend

[Debbie82]

You know what this means? It will be the end of the Internet as we know it! Goodbye, free speech! Goodbye, U.S. Constitution! Goodbye, First Amendment! Goodbye, everything! :(

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120627/01050319504/big-isps-expected-to-start-six-strikes-program-this-weekend.shtml

[Ribs]

... if I'm reading this correctly, this only affects people who illegally pirate material regularly, who should definitely be punished... Or has something changed? This isn't the most descriptive article...

[coolsome]

You know what this means? It will be the end of the Internet as we know it! Goodbye, free speech! Goodbye, U.S. Constitution! Goodbye, First Amendment! Goodbye, everything! :(



Has anyone ever told you that you are really over dramatic?

[SlamHammer]

Wow, such lackadaisical attitude considering that this is being brought about by the MPAA and RIAA which have been given power equal to the Inquisition as far as how they decide to handle things, which in the past has shown that they like to treat everybody as "Guilty until proven innocent"

Sorry, but the MPAA and RIAA should not be able to wield this kind of power over people.

[Darth Marsden]

We're a jovial bunch. We make fun of stuff. It's just what we do.

Also, this is doomed to failure. We know it is, they know it is. Hell, the linked article even says as much. So yeah, we're not taking it all that seriously. Why the hell should we?

[SlamHammer]

Also, this is doomed to failure. We know it is, they know it is. Hell, the linked article even says as much. So yeah, we're not taking it all that seriously. Why the hell should we?

But the problem is that it exists in the first place, and the RIAA and MPAA keep pushing and pushing for complete control of the Internet.

When things like SOPA fails, they just repackage it and try again, when THAT fails, they repackage and try again.

That's the real problem.

[coolsome]

So there Dr Claw? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2_cJxYYhM&feature=related)

[Alcoremortis]

I don't think the big ISPs realize that most of the people they would catch with this would either be idiot tweens or college students. I think they should focus instead on making their product more accessible and easier to purchase.

[FrankT]

Provided they keep their range in a very specific manner...

[SlamHammer]

That's my worry, with all the streaming places available such as Netflix, Hulu and other online pay-on-demand stuff, how many false positives will they get?
I watch a lot of Netflix

[coolsome]

That's my worry, with all the streaming places available such as Netflix, Hulu and other online pay-on-demand stuff, how many false positives will they get?
I watch a lot of Netflix

I think they can tell the difference between illegal streaming and watching on netflix.

[SlamHammer]

I think they can tell the difference between illegal streaming and watching on netflix.

So this would be the equivalent of everybody having their phones tapped 24/7.
I can't see why people don't care about this.

Bandwidth is Bandwidth, if you watch Netflix all month and your total usage is high and looks suspicious to them, they have the power to slap you with any type of legal action they want.

They've already proven how iron-handed they are when it comes to accusations of theft, harassing Grandmothers and 12 year old girls.

Sorry, I don't like it, and I'm not going to just shrug and say "Meh"

[gamingafter40]

If I were trying to design such a filter, I would probably take a multi-pronged approach that looked at several transactional characteristics:

1) Download size
2) File format
3) Source website

(I think streaming is easy to separate, because it's not a download per se -- the entire movie is never copied to the viewing device, just a certain amount of buffering.)

Everything else would be really hard to deal with heuristically. If a user downloads a public domain film like "The Bells of Rosarita" or "Night of the Living Dead", then that transaction should not be flagged; the media, size and source website actually tell us NOTHING about the copyright status of the work being transferred.

And none of this is static -- for instance, I like Robert Benchley's writing a lot. Some of his earliest books are now in the public domain, and over time more of them will move into that status; how do we tell which is which in any programmatic way?

The same challenge applies to Sierra's "Mystery House" or Jeff Minter's early games, which the creators and copyright holders have made available for free download. And in Minter's case, some of the free download files he now makes officially available are actually pirated versions, because that was a lot easier than tracking down the originals! So if we're looking for telltale symptoms of piracy, we would find them -- but the user would not actually have infringed, per the copyright owner's own website.

What would really be needed is some sort of consistent digital "fingerprint" that could be uniquely assigned to any published work, and a database to track status of each known work. Not infeasible, but expensive to set up and administer; it would likely have to be paid for by the people most likely to be harmed by piracy of their works.

Without that infrastructure, it would be difficult to "show harm" from a legal perspective -- and it might actually WEAKEN copyright protection, by suggesting that if copyright holders can't be bothered to invest the money to put it in the database, then they must not care about enforcement at all. Cartoonists R. Crumb and Bill Watterson fell prey to that "precedent" in decades past, I'd hate to see it happen on a broad basis because we put too much faith in the technology.

(On the other hand, if we had such a database then it would become a LOT easier to simply pay for things we want to read, play or listen to, even when they are long out of print. That might incentivize the process. But still I think a lot of people would get left out, or in many cases their estates wouldn't bother.)

[JedExodus]

I don't think the big ISPs realize that most of the people they would catch with this would either be idiot tweens or college students. I think they should focus instead on making their product more accessible and easier to purchase.

Agreed, over here the ISPs are trying to hold out as long as possible on moves like this, they know people enjoy a bit of piracy and curbing it isn't helping them. For now at any rate, a lot of big players are providing their own subscription based tellybox machines.

[coolsome]

Sorry, I don't like it, and I'm not going to just shrug and say "Meh"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kyN9nFU4RYw/TydnmeTKNUI/AAAAAAAAAd4/lEsJX2q90XQ/s1600/moriarty+shrug+face.gif

[SlamHammer]

Make fun all you want, it's only YOUR Privacy and Freedom at stake.
I don't know what's wrong with kids today, everything is "LOL, who cares?"

[GaryCXJk]

Most of these "kids" might as well just be older than you.

Seriously, most here know their shit.

[SlamHammer]

Most of these "kids" might as well just be older than you.
Seriously, most here know their shit.

Hmmm, I posted that I went to see KISS in '76 and '77,
how many here were even born then?

[DAISHI]

You got cred bro.

[SlamHammer]

My main concern is the "so what?" attitude....
Things like this are a big deal, corporations in America are grabbing more and more power, and if it's met with "So what?" we won't have any freedom left.

As it is, thanks to greedy companies like EA, there's a bill floating around that would remove 2nd hand sales of EVERYTHING, not just software, being pushed in America.
That would make places like garage sales, yard sales, ebay, auctions technically illegal.

People should really take notice of these things and be concerned about them.

[RetroVortex]

I agree with you.

But lets face the facts.

Govermental systems are just far too inbred for change to happen, (unless it gets as far as violent revolt, or some group manages to manipulate a major pusher in a way that saves their ass next time).

This is a selfish world, where the greedy are driven to manipulate those with actual hearts.

We could all wave our flags and camp outside the politician's houses, but in the end, while we do that, we get poorer, and the rich and greedy get their chance to slip by and sneak in whatever agenda they bloody well want.

The corporations, in essence are so, so very strong now. They can get these old gits anything they would ever want.

Local shops barely exist at all in the UK. The Supermarkets and their mini-versions devoured all the business they had, wth better ranges and offers.

There are 4, 4 Tescos in our town (if you count One Stop as well, which is owned by Tesco), a sainsbury's, and a Morrisons.

Our high street is decaying. Several stores closing all around.

And what can we do? Nothing really.

All our strength, our reserves are being sapped by our goverment, and by industry. Consumerism is the king, everything else is looked down upon, reduced, and subsidised.

The state of the global company only helps these companies more. They can get the real changes done while people are desperate, and they can make bold claims they know not many will challenge.

[Debbie82]

Well, all I know is that the "six-strikes" plan will backfire eventually.

[WarpSpeed]

The biggest impact I see is that the VPN Privacy services will get a lot more customers. Maybe they're the ones who are really behind this.

I don't think big ISPs are really going to be happy to follow plans that will cost them money, alienate subscribers who get threat-mail over what their 12-year-old children did, and not really provide any benefits for themselves. It could also open the door for lawsuits from sites that claim to be law-abiding but are blocked (or whose visitors are harassed). Without laws backing the concept, there are no liability limits.

So that's why there isn't that big of an outcry yet.

[HelloCthulhu]

You know what this means? It will be the end of the Internet as we know it! Goodbye, free speech! Goodbye, U.S. Constitution! Goodbye, First Amendment! Goodbye, everything! :(

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120627/01050319504/big-isps-expected-to-start-six-strikes-program-this-weekend.shtml

um... reread the article...

[Debbie82]

um... reread the article...

Oh boy! I think Techdirt made a mistake! :D

[SlamHammer]

Nice, they updated since this thread started.
Well that's some good news!

[GaryCXJk]

See? Panic for nothing.

[Debbie82]

Well, I fear the worst, as MPAA is using Megaupload case as backdoor SOPA! And this has to happen on the day that Megaupload's search warrants are ruled illegal by the high court! :(

http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-using-megaupload-case-as-backdoor-sopa-court-hears-120628/

http://torrentfreak.com/megaupload-search-warrants-ruled-illegal-by-high-court-120628/

[DAISHI]

Article really seems to point tat the tide is against the MPAA on this one. Constitution is fairly clear on search and seizure.

[SlamHammer]

Article really seems to point tat the tide is against the MPAA on this one. Constitution is fairly clear on search and seizure.

True, but seeing how easily politicians are bought and sold by corporations these days, it'll only take a few dozen or so to turn the MPAA and RIAA will into law

[gamingafter40]

Hmmm, I posted that I went to see KISS in '76 and '77,
how many here were even born then?

I was born, but I was 9 or 10 years old. :)

[FrankT]

So are we defeated then?

[Debbie82]

Not yet.

[FrankT]

I'm more worried that they're voting on ACTA this week! THAT will be the end of everything!! People! Sign the petitions! The fate of the world is in our hands!!

[coolsome]

Aww that sucks! I always hoped the fate of the world being in our hands would somthing like fighting a final battle with a demon or monster for the fate of the world! Not just signing a petition. :(

http://dreager1.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/kh2_sora_riku_fight.jpg
Thats a much better way to have the fate of the world in your hands.

[Darth Marsden]

Only problem with that is that we'd lose about 15 times before we consulted the internet on how to win.

And since that's exactly what they don't want, we'd be pretty much screwed!

[Debbie82]

Silverwolfpet, I know you're gonna like this:

European Parliament rejects ACTA (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/pressroom/content/20120703IPR48247/html/European-Parliament-rejects-ACTA)

Great job! You've saved the day for the European Internet! :) :cool: