F*** Kenny

[Death689God]

Cool your jets, buddy! I've not insulted you... and make personal this thing it's nonsense. I will say too that the insult it's the last resource from those have no arguments. I'm not trolling either.

Like I said before, I've played the "Lee supporting Lilly" gameplay and I managed to see Larry move his mouth when you do the fourth or fifth movement on CPR. Again, that doesn't mean that they're alive in a zombie universe. We still don't know if he's breathing. He could be converting, just all.

The insult was the conclusion of the argument, also it was a backing of the argument that you're trolling. I'm going to bring up the same point you haven't gotten, or are ignoring, one last time:

Don't do it fast enough, it doesn't happen. And when you're holding Lilly back, it doesn't happen. If it was him turning, note the body doesn't jerk when they turn it simply stirs and they rise, it would of happened without the CPR and if you didn't get there fast enough. Thus, logically, it was working...

[The_Ripper]

The insult was the conclusion of the argument, also it was a backing of the argument that you're trolling. I'm going to bring up the same point you haven't gotten, or are ignoring, one last time:

Don't do it fast enough, it doesn't happen. And when you're holding Lilly back, it doesn't happen. If it was him turning, note the body doesn't jerk when they turn it simply stirs and they rise, it would of happened without the CPR and if you didn't get there fast enough. Thus, logically, it was working...

You don't know that. The camera it's not focusing on Larry's face. http://st.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/nusenuse.gif

Do you want to keep insulting? http://st.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/icon_popcorn.gif

[Death689God]

You don't know that. The camera it's not focusing on Larry's face. http://st.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/nusenuse.gif

Do you want to keep insulting? http://st.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/icon_popcorn.gif

It doesn't because, if it did, she probably would have screamed "Don't he's alive, he moved". Also if you stand back and do nothing it doesn't happen either.

Where was the insult in the last post? Take a second to read it over again.

[Gman5852]

It doesn't because, if it did, she probably would have screamed "Don't he's alive, he moved".

She was watching Larry when you try to save him as well, she didn't say anything then either. Tell someone that he's ignoring a major point, insult him, and then ignore a major point yourself. Classy.

[Death689God]

She was watching Larry when you try to save him as well, she didn't say anything then either. Tell someone that he's ignoring a major point, insult him, and then ignore a major point yourself. Classy.

That's because she says he's still alive either way, if you help her. "He was still alive Lee". Also, another Major point is that it still doesn't happen if you don't make it in time. Which is one both of you are ignoring.
And the insult was essentially "Either trolling or stupid". That's basically it. What a HUGE Insult, and I didn't even have a whole paragraph of logic before it either. :rolleyes:
Sometimes and Insult is just an Insult, I clearly wasn't using it Ad Hominem style.

[Necrosoul]

When did this get hijacked from the OP to did he kill Larry? If you want to know if Larry was alive check the with TTG. They have come and said. The OP was about how Kenny is garbage, a coward, a not the man people seem to think he is. Deadk1ng has more then proved his point on this and people are welcome to disprove his points. Look at the whole not just part.

[Gman5852]

That's because she says he's still alive either way, if you help her. "He was still alive Lee". Also, another Major point is that it still doesn't happen if you don't make it in time. Which is one both of you are ignoring.

False. I never once stated whether or not I thought Larry died or not(I think he lived, but there is nothing proving it either way). Lilly says "he was still alive" because that is what she believed happened and what Lee(if you chose to save him) believed as well. As for Larry breathing, its possible that walker Larry "woke up" from Lee's pounding. Another fact you seem to ignore(but you were pretty quick to read into my post and make false claims though :rolleyes:)

And the insult was essentially "Either trolling or stupid". That's basically it. What a HUGE Insult, and I didn't even have a whole paragraph of logic before it either. :rolleyes:

Hmm. I never said it was a major insult either. Weird, 2 times you've read into my statement and made up information. All I said is that I found it funny you are insulting someone for missing a major point, and then immediately miss a major point yourself.

Sometimes and Insult is just an Insult, I clearly wasn't using it Ad Hominem style.

And I never once said it was something else. So that's three times you've read into my post and made up information. Wow :rolleyes:

[The_Ripper]

And I never once said it was something else. So that's three times you've read into my post and made up information. Wow :rolleyes:

Well, they live in their own world...

Then they defend something like killing a kid like Duck... but, well, that's another thread. :)

[Death689God]

False. I never once stated whether or not I thought Larry died or not(I think he lived, but there is nothing proving it either way). Lilly says "he was still alive" because that is what she believed happened and what Lee(if you chose to save him) believed as well. As for Larry breathing, its possible that walker Larry "woke up" from Lee's pounding. Another fact you seem to ignore(but you were pretty quick to read into my post and make false claims though :rolleyes:)



Hmm. I never said it was a major insult either. Weird, 2 times you've read into my statement and made up information. All I said is that I found it funny you are insulting someone for missing a major point, and then immediately miss a major point yourself.



And I never once said it was something else. So that's three times you've read into my post and made up information. Wow :rolleyes:

To be fair, everyone tends to read into peoples words. Even you've done it to me. (For example: "Lilly says "he was still alive" because that is what she believed happened and what Lee(if you chose to save him) believed as well.", that's basically exactly what I said.) Sorry I'm not so simple minded as to just read in black and white text.

[Death689God]

Well, they live in their own world...

Then they defend something like killing a kid like Duck... but, well, that's another thread. :)
"They", and who are "They" exactly? I don't really fit into labels well, so this should prove... Interesting.

Technically what I said was that he was the lowest on my priority list and that he's going if I have to make one of those "tough choices" about it.

[Death689God]

When did this get hijacked from the OP to did he kill Larry? If you want to know if Larry was alive check the with TTG. They have come and said. The OP was about how Kenny is garbage, a coward, a not the man people seem to think he is. Deadk1ng has more then proved his point on this and people are welcome to disprove his points. Look at the whole not just part.

In your rush to reply to me, don't forget ^^^ This ^^^ guys.

But to actually respond to you Necrosoul... It came to this argument, because it's the only thing Kenny supporters can argue about and come close to having a rational argument.

[Gman5852]

To be fair, everyone tends to read into peoples words. Even you've done it to me. (For example: "Lilly says "he was still alive" because that is what she believed happened and what Lee(if you chose to save him) believed as well.", that's basically exactly what I said.)

What? That isn't reading into what you said and making up information. That was me disproving your point. Lilly said "he was still alive" because she believed it, not because it was true.


Sorry I'm not so simple minded as to just read in black and white text.
Wait what do you mean? That has nothing to do with my post.

[Death689God]

What? That isn't reading into what you said and making up information. That was me disproving your point. Lilly said "he was still alive" because she believed it, not because it was true.



Wait what do you mean? That has nothing to do with my post.

I said she says it either way (meaning whether you make it in time or not), which was meant to show that: if she did mention it, it would be drowned out by the fact that she mentions it either way... I thought it was pretty simple to decipher what I was saying.

It does because you told me to not read into what you're saying, which if you had read into what I was saying this miscommunication would NOT be happening right now.

[Kinky John Fowler]

There's some pretentious bullshit creeping into this thread from both sides. Keep it sweet, man.

[Gman5852]

I said she says it either way (meaning whether you make it in time or not), which was meant to show that: if she did mention it, it would be drowned out by the fact that she mentions it either way... I thought it was pretty simple to decipher what I was saying.

She says it either way because she believed he is still alive either way.

It does because you told me to not read into what you're saying, which if you had read into what I was saying this miscommunication would NOT be happening right now.

I think we have different meanings of "read into a post" I mean that you are reading into my post and making false information. You have twice read into my posts, and then make it sound like I said stuff which just isn't true that isn't exactly "reading beyond black and white text" as it is "failing to read black and white text and making crap up".

[pluckaduck]

Could we change the name of this thread to F*** Death689God???

[Death689God]

There's some pretentious bullshit creeping into this thread from both sides. Keep it sweet, man.

I won't deny that observation.

She says it either way because she believed he is still alive either way.

Exactly, which is why I don't think she pointed it out. I mean, it clearly happened.

I think we have different meanings of "read into a post" I mean that you are reading into my post and making false information. You have twice read into my posts, and then make it sound like I said stuff which just isn't true that isn't exactly "reading beyond black and white text" as it is "failing to read black and white text and making crap up".

More along the lines of misinterpreting what you're saying in between the lines. Something we've both done thus far.

Could we change the name of this thread to F*** Death689God???

Probably not, but you COULD make a new thread if you want.

[pluckaduck]

I won't deny that observation.



Exactly, which is why I don't think she pointed it out. I mean, it clearly happened.



More along the lines of misinterpreting what you're saying in between the lines. Something we've both done thus far.



Probably not, but you COULD make a new thread if you want.

I'm thinking after your short time on this forum(to quote Danny before dinner) it'll would be a good one!!

[Death689God]

I'm thinking after your short time on this forum(to quote Danny before dinner) it'll would be a good one!!

I'd hope so, I've not exactly been pulling the punches in the hopes of making friends. That said, this games' only been out for, what? Three Months? Isn't EVERYONE basically new to the Forum, as the forum is relatively new in and of itself... Just saying. :cool:

[The_Ripper]

In your rush to reply to me, don't forget ^^^ This ^^^ guys.

But to actually respond to you Necrosoul... It came to this argument, because it's the only thing Kenny supporters can argue about and come close to having a rational argument.

Yeah, rational argument... For you insulting it's a rational argument.

Ok, noted.

[Death689God]

Yeah, rational argument... For you insulting it's a rational argument.

Ok, noted.

I don't recall you insulting me enough for this exchange to be irrational on your end. Which I was referring to your end.

[Darcside]

I haven't read the entire thread (it's pretty long), so I'm sorry if this leads to recursion. I agree with the sentiment of Fuck Kenny not because of his call (he made the right one, I just didn't want to be the bad guy), but because he later bragged that he was the one who made the tough calls.

After freezing during every major decision and only ever moving to save his son that one time, he has the balls to say that he makes the hard decisions? How does that even make sense? Shane made hard decisions and went the distance to keep others safe, Kenny does one thing right - with the tact of a capsized Mac Truck - and suddenly thinks he’s Savior of the Fucking Apocalypse? I’m gonna let them EAT YOU next chance I get.

Exactly. Him killing Larry was shocking for sure, but when he did a complete 180 on me and said "someone needs to have the balls to make the tough decisions....at least one of us do anyway" or something like that, that is what pissed me off. And then he hides the the damn stall when i'm about to be killed (at least im MY playthrough) just for disagreeing with him one time. That's when i said screw Kenny. And i had his back 100% up to that point.

[CapnJay]

Episode three Kenny starts lipping off and I punch the every lovin shit out of him. Leading to Clem asking if people get angry when they're scared

[Death689God]

Episode three Kenny starts lipping off and I punch the every lovin shit out of him. Leading to Clem asking if people get angry when they're scared

Something like this ^^^ hopefully.

[Merc]

Episode three: Kenny is still bros with me, leading to Clem, Doug, and Lee traveling with the Kenny clan on a boating adventure!

Fixed

[CapnJay]

Fixed

Oy i'm only cool with Kenny on my carley playthrough

[Rommel49]

Fixed

You have fun on your boating adventure, with no drinking water, scurvy/beriberi/other nutritional diseases, guarantee the boat's there, and in one of the most densely populated regions in the country (i.e. where most of the zombies are gonna be). :D

[Merc]

You have fun on your boating adventure, with no drinking water, scurvy/beriberi/other nutritional diseases, guarantee the boat's there, and in one of the most densely populated regions in the country (i.e. where most of the zombies are gonna be). :D

most boats come with a water filter now. Just sayin'.

And scurvy just means you're an official pirate now. :D

[Rommel49]

most boats come with a water filter now. Just sayin'.

And scurvy just means you're an official pirate now. :D

It'd need to be a fairly high capacity system (since we're looking at a minimum of five people) and as such, a fairly large boat, in which case have fun getting potentially thousands of gallons of fuel to keep the boat running. Considering Kenny cruises around in a beat up pickup... I kinda doubt it. :p

There's also the issue of part damage/failure, etc. even if it has such a system (e.g. an RO system), you typically don't want to leave it inactive, which is what it's been for atleast three months (unless somebody ganked the boat, in which case it don't matter).

Nah, Scurvy just means bone pain, loose teeth/gum disease and ultimately death ;)

[CapnJay]

Turns out Kennys Fishing Vessel is state of the art pristine condition constantly kept maintained by a loyal crew who temporarily docked away from the docks until they calmed down then sailed back in to wait for Kenny.

Kenny: I may drive a beat up truck and look and act like i have a lifetime supply of larry the cable guy preformance tickets. But I keep my boat Professional Grade.

[thestalkinghead]

the way i see it is that kenny will save his family no matter what, as long as you know that, you know how to manipulate the situation so that saving his family involves saving you and Clementine, i think he would actually sacrifice his life if he knew it would save his family (and if i just so happen to be there at the time he would save me ) but larry just seemed to want to kill everyone he was just trying to figure out reasons to kill, like the duck situation, and he was racist, so i automatically dont trust his moral compass and dont believe he is capable of complex rational thought, but i have heard country music ( i guess kenny is a fan) rednecks are alot more complicated than they make themselves out to be :)

[Zeruis]

the way i see it is that kenny will save his family no matter what, as long as you know that, you know how to manipulate the situation so that saving his family involves saving you and Clementine, i think he would actually sacrifice his life if he knew it would save his family (and if i just so happen to be there at the time he would save me ) but larry just seemed to want to kill everyone he was just trying to figure out reasons to kill, like the duck situation, and he was racist, so i automatically dont trust his moral compass and dont believe he is capable of complex rational thought, but i have heard country music ( i guess kenny is a fan) rednecks are alot more complicated than they make themselves out to be :)

I think that something like this would happen. Sort of like a last "heroic moment" if he does die.

[Death689God]

the way i see it is that kenny will save his family no matter what, as long as you know that, you know how to manipulate the situation so that saving his family involves saving you and Clementine, i think he would actually sacrifice his life if he knew it would save his family (and if i just so happen to be there at the time he would save me ) but larry just seemed to want to kill everyone he was just trying to figure out reasons to kill, like the duck situation, and he was racist, so i automatically dont trust his moral compass and dont believe he is capable of complex rational thought, but i have heard country music ( i guess kenny is a fan) rednecks are alot more complicated than they make themselves out to be :)

Larry's an asshole, not a racist... Just saying.

[thestalkinghead]

Larry's an asshole, not a racist... Just saying.

i thought a black guy (Lee) saying he was racist meant that he was being racist all the time off camera in between episodes, i don't think that was a lie, and that is the real reason he hates you

[Death689God]

i thought a black guy (Lee) saying he was racist meant that he was being racist all the time off camera in between episodes, i don't think that was a lie, and that is the real reason he hates you

That was clearly a lie based on the interactions afterwards, also clearly Larry is surprised by it. He hates you because you're a convicted murderer... Also, he's an asshole to EVERYONE, even Mark. Mark isn't black, now is he?
Just because it's an option doesn't mean it's true, just like all of the lies you could tell Hersey... You had Three dialog choices:

He thinks I'm dangerous (truth)
He's just looking out for his daughter (empathetic truth)
He's a racist (not established as true before, out of place, it's the lie option. I'm, like, 99.99999*repeating*% sure)

[thestalkinghead]

That was clearly a lie based on the interactions afterwards, also clearly Larry is surprised by it. He hates you because you're a convicted murderer... Also, he's an asshole to EVERYONE, even Mark. Mark isn't black, now is he?
Just because it's an option doesn't mean it's true, just like all of the lies you could tell Hersey... You had Three dialog choices:

He thinks I'm dangerous (truth)
He's just looking out for his daughter (empathetic truth)
He's a racist (not established as true before, out of place, it's the lie option. I'm, like, 99.99999*repeating*% sure)

i think Lee is just very tolerant of larrys racism so it may have been the first time he has been accused of racism, i think he is just a racist and an asshole, just because it wasn't obvious in the episode doesn't mean he wasnt and also if he was being blatantly racist all the time how would there be any dilemma in smashing his skull in, they wanted it to be a hard choice not a choice of good vs evil

[Death689God]

i think Lee is just very tolerant of larrys racism so it may have been the first time he has been accused of racism, i think he is just a racist and an asshole, just because it wasn't obvious in the episode doesn't mean he wasnt and also if he was being blatantly racist all the time how would there be any dilemma in smashing his skull in, they wanted it to be a hard choice not a choice of good vs evil

I'll elaborate when I have it in me. Right now I don't have the patience in my for this.

[thestalkinghead]

just made a new topic to ask others if they think larry is racist or if it was a lie, i think it is a vary large piece of ambiguity

[Moragami]

The odds are that the people near the coast have already taken the boats and attempted to sail to other shores though, it's the same for Kenny's boat, someone would likely have already taken it (you don't need a key to start a boat).Sorry, but you do need a key to start a boat. Maybe not a rowboat, or a small boat with an outboard motor, but any boat large enough for a small family to live aboard would be locked, and also require a key for the ignition. It would be easier to hotwire than a car, and most boat owners leave a key stashed in the boat anyway. Keys would likely also be stored in the Marina office.

Kenny is taking a risk in his assumption that his boat will still be there, but it's not out of the question.

[Kinky John Fowler]

Sorry, but you do need a key to start a boat. Maybe not a rowboat, or a small boat with an outboard motor, but any boat large enough for a small family to live aboard would be locked, and also require a key for the ignition. It would be easier to hotwire than a car, and most boat owners leave a key stashed in the boat anyway. Keys would likely also be stored in the Marina office.

Kenny is taking a risk in his assumption that his boat will still be there, but it's not out of the question.

Erm... so you've just agreed with me then.

[adam86shadow]

Initially I was sympathetic towards Kenny however since Episode II he can go screw himself! Reasons be:

* Granted I chose Shawn, but I knew Kenny would save his boy HOWEVER he still didn't help me save Shawn

* Three months on and he still won't drop the fact that I just wanted to be sure Duck wasn't bitten!

* Apparently I am not welcome on his RV despite giving his kid sweeties at the Drug store however I still give his boy food a second time and get a maybe...

* He's so bloody argumentative... I get accused of 'sitting on the fence' when trying to keep peace

* He assumes because Lee's black that he can pick locks

* He then kills Larry before we even get a chance to help. Yeah he's an ass but it's better trying to save an extra pair of hands!

* I then get accused of not having his back (again) because I wouldn't kill infront of Clem

* He does F all to help in the barn except run off and potential get killed

* He seemingly doesn't care that I saved his life, his wifes twice and fed his boy twice...

[YamiRaziel]

adam86shadow, that's basically what happen with my first play, except with the difference that I saved Duck and not Shawn.
That's the reason cause I will never ever again tolerate his behavior. He's going to pay for betraying me.

P.S I want our thread to be top thread again so, well, say something :D
Sisterofshane, where are you? :P Say something that we will make us discuss is for another 10 pages :P

[CapnJay]

Let's discuss Kenny's behavior in the episode three trailer

[Zeruis]

Let's discuss Kenny's behavior in the episode three trailer

Different depending on whether you sided with Lilly or Kenny in the meat locker. Also, Kenny thinks that he can "sort everything out" with the group. Sudden personality change?

[CapnJay]

"You never listen to me"

[Zeruis]

"You never listen to me"

If you side with Kenny again in the meat locker, he says "I'm going to need you to back me up on this" AGAIN.

[dubesor]

Initially I was sympathetic towards Kenny however since Episode II he can go screw himself! Reasons be:

* Granted I chose Shawn, but I knew Kenny would save his boy HOWEVER he still didn't help me save Shawn

* Three months on and he still won't drop the fact that I just wanted to be sure Duck wasn't bitten!

* Apparently I am not welcome on his RV despite giving his kid sweeties at the Drug store however I still give his boy food a second time and get a maybe...

* He's so bloody argumentative... I get accused of 'sitting on the fence' when trying to keep peace

* He assumes because Lee's black that he can pick locks

* He then kills Larry before we even get a chance to help. Yeah he's an ass but it's better trying to save an extra pair of hands!

* I then get accused of not having his back (again) because I wouldn't kill infront of Clem

* He does F all to help in the barn except run off and potential get killed

* He seemingly doesn't care that I saved his life, his wifes twice and fed his boy twice...

You think too much that your action have impact. They don't. I did the exact opposite to Kenny. For example if you Chose to save Shawn and not duck, and then even say it was all Kennys fault that Shawn died he will still give you the ride without being mad. And then after Duck got MAYBE bitten if you go all balls and want to throw Duck out to the zombies etc later he will STILL save you after you got punched down etc.

None of your actions within the relationship actually matter as much as you seem to think. The exact same happens. Doesn'tmatter if you do 500 actions all in his favor, or do the complete opposite. The only thing that will change is a sentence every now and then during a scene, but all results stay the same. So it is not worth the hassle to try to side with Kenny.

If you do,you will essentially have to back up all 3 or otherwise theres always a reason why he could be against you. And like I said, it doesn't matter. Even if he DOES have a boat, he will mostly likely use it anyway regardless what you did the 500 times before. Or someone else will do something with the exact same result. Such as the Doug / Carley situation where no matter what you chose both do the identical moves just with minor tweaks to it (Doug use laserpointer instead gun, Carley just magically fixes the camcorder while they actually imply that Doug fixed it himself).

Making your decisions to actually matter in any way, shape or form seems to be too expensive as far as I heard.

[marcu5]

Initially I was sympathetic towards Kenny however since Episode II he can go screw himself! Reasons be:

* Granted I chose Shawn, but I knew Kenny would save his boy HOWEVER he still didn't help me save Shawn

* Three months on and he still won't drop the fact that I just wanted to be sure Duck wasn't bitten!

* Apparently I am not welcome on his RV despite giving his kid sweeties at the Drug store however I still give his boy food a second time and get a maybe...

* He's so bloody argumentative... I get accused of 'sitting on the fence' when trying to keep peace

* He assumes because Lee's black that he can pick locks

* He then kills Larry before we even get a chance to help. Yeah he's an ass but it's better trying to save an extra pair of hands!

* I then get accused of not having his back (again) because I wouldn't kill infront of Clem

* He does F all to help in the barn except run off and potential get killed

* He seemingly doesn't care that I saved his life, his wifes twice and fed his boy twice...

the TTG writers really dropped the ball with kenny

at least give lee the option to confront kenny on his bs. i've saved his family more than he has and he has the nerve to show me disrespect?

[Superfluid]

It's easy to side with Kenny in the beginning because Larry is such an ass. But the hard/unpopular decisions usually pay off in these types of situations. My guess is that those of you that side with Lilly over Kenny will get a better payoff in the end than siding with Kenny. I cant bring myself to do it, however, solely because of Larry.

[zgamer]

They still need to fix the "Reason with Him" issue :p

Ok, now I got that out of my system.

[MrIncognito]

the TTG writers really dropped the ball with kenny

at least give lee the option to confront kenny on his bs. i've saved his family more than he has and he has the nerve to show me disrespect?

The fact that you think they dropped the ball probably just proves how well-written the character actually is, since he's provoking the desired response.

A lot of players seem to expect a lot of gratitude from people for the things they do, even when what they do goes against the character they expect gratitude from. If you don't have his back why do you think you should have his respect?

[Rommel49]

The fact that you think they dropped the ball probably just proves how well-written the character actually is, since he's provoking the desired response.

A lot of players seem to expect a lot of gratitude from people for the things they do, even when what they do goes against the character they expect gratitude from. If you don't have his back why do you think you should have his respect?

It's not Kenny's responses so much as the lack of response Lee gets in being able to call him out on stuff or beat people over the head with facts. I've made the same observation.

As the saying goes, "crap rolls downhill", and Lee's been getting a face full of it for like, two full episodes. That should change.

[Mackeh]

I told myself that I wouldn't do another playthrough until all episodes were out but after ep 2 I have decided to do another run with the sole purpose of treating Kenny like the piece of shit he is. It may not be my canonical playthrough but he has to pay for his cowardice somehow

Kenny is my best m8, how dare you speak of him like that, we look out for eachother all the time. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0E8L-6aCcQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=812s

[Necrosoul]

It's not Kenny's responses so much as the lack of response Lee gets in being able to call him out on stuff or beat people over the head with facts. I've made the same observation.

As the saying goes, "crap rolls downhill", and Lee's been getting a face full of it for like, two full episodes. That should change.

Ok good point. So if any of you had the chance to tell Kenny something what would it be?

[Galdis]

I sided with Kenny almost all of the time, except in the meat locker. Even then I told him "you're not a bad guy, you just jumped the gun". The previews for episode 3 don't bode well for this.

Since Larry dies either way I doubt my decisions with Lilly really matter. At least I have Carley and Clem.

[YamiRaziel]

People, our thread is slowly dying!!! We must keep it alive until episode 3! Then we will have fresh material to hate Kenny for :P

[CapnJay]

it's not dead noone has anything to add that isn't said to death

[Demopan]

Kenny's a great guy if you side with him 100% of the time otherwise...


I wonder how many people would shoot kenny in the back soon as they get to his boat and get it running

Not that simple, you need someone with sailing expertise.

[Master of Aeons]

Not that simple, you need someone with sailing expertise.

"I'M THE NAVIGATOR! Mermaid off the port bow!"

[CapnJay]

Next Episode Lee and Lily are going to be going at it like rabbits if carley isn't around if she is then lee and carley and lily. Even if Lily hates Lee it'll be angry sex. Because these people are so damn pent up.

or worse Kenny and Kaatja blowing off steam

your welcome for the mental image

[mz3]

kenny is not a bad man but he can be stupid sometimes

[Zeruis]

kenny is not a bad man but he can be stupid sometimes

I assume you said "you're no hero" to him, then? Your post just reminded me of Lee.

[mz3]

I assume you said "you're no hero" to him, then? Your post just reminded me of Lee.

I said kenny: you destroy two lives

[jaybreezy]

Next Episode Lee and Lily are going to be going at it like rabbits if carley isn't around if she is then lee and carley and lily. Even if Lily hates Lee it'll be angry sex. Because these people are so damn pent up.

or worse Kenny and Kaatja blowing off steam

your welcome for the mental image

If it's Lee, Carly and Lily how does that work??

Left/Right to choose Lily or Carly
Up/Down
Left/Right to choose Lily or Carly
Up/Down

Lee bumps his head on the headboard which causes the dizzy/blurry screen effect.

Left/Right to choose Lily or Carly
Up/Down

Screen clears to a shot of Kenny.. "Damn it Lee. You have to bump your head to *have my back* in these situations?"

YOU'RE WELCOME for the mental image :)

[The_Cheshire_Cat]

If it's Lee, Carly and Lily how does that work??

Left/Right to choose Lily or Carly
Up/Down
Left/Right to choose Lily or Carly
Up/Down



Button mashing. Tap the "q" button repeatedly. And then quickly tap "e" to pull out.

The last thing the group needs is a pregnant women.

[Phantom Command]

He may redeem himself in the next episode but right now he's on probation, one more snarl, scowl or angry head shake followed by the classic walk away and I may have to ask him to solve a riddle like the when a walker falls in the woods and doesn’t breath, will you hear a moan? And then leave him behind as he tries to solve it.

[Milosuperspesh]

Button mashing. Tap the "q" button repeatedly. And then quickly tap "e" to pull out.

The last thing the group needs is a pregnant women.

hot chocolate gta style ?

[The_Cheshire_Cat]

hot chocolate gta style ?

Hot coffee. But yeah.

Keep that stamina bar up!

[SteveTheBox]

After all of this, I figured out Kenny was just a coward just thinking about himself and his happiness, i understood him on Hershel's farm, but when he killed Lilly's dad and decided to hide in the barn when i was getting my ass kicked by Danny, but I know what he did was trying to protect everyone or just himself and using clementine as a scapegoat but in any matter, Kenny is really bad, im not sure what he is, overprotective, paranoid-protective, or he only just cares about his family, but who knows for sure we're going to find out sooner or later.
Hopefully I can change Kenny like I did with Lilly by trying to save her dad.

[Phantom Command]

I have no disillusion that Kenny would gladly leave me, case in point the barn scene or worse Clem to the walkers using the excuse it was to save his family when in reality it’s just to save his own skin.

Also where did he go when he left the barn, I had a nice chat with Danny, Carley/Doug for a few minutes then saved his wife and he finally reappears when duck has a gun to his head.

He was probably hiding and watching Lee to see if he had to do anything.

[jaybreezy]

I love Kenny... He's my homeboy.

[Theo333]

Kenny is...frustrating. I know that Larry was a son of a bitch, but that does not excuse what he did. They still had a chance to save him. I won't even comment about Shawn.

Most likely he'll end up doing something cowardly at the 5th part's climax then bravely sacrifice himself or something.

[GetOutNearToTheDock]

Cmon guys Kenny deserves more credit. IF You're with him 100% he will:

- Gives you a ride to Macon
- comes back to save you at the pharmacy
- fights Danny in the barn
- helps hold off some walkers while you're helping the teacher

My main playthrough is 100% Kenny, and he's loyal.

[Milosuperspesh]

Cmon guys Kenny deserves more credit. IF You're with him 100% he will:

- Gives you a ride to Macon
- comes back to save you at the pharmacy
- fights Danny in the barn
- helps hold off some walkers while you're helping the teacher

My main playthrough is 100% Kenny, and he's loyal.

yup i second this but you put one foot wrong and he's all over yo ass

[Phantom Command]

Cmon guys Kenny deserves more credit. IF You're with him 100% he will:

- Gives you a ride to Macon
- comes back to save you at the pharmacy
- fights Danny in the barn
- helps hold off some walkers while you're helping the teacher

My main playthrough is 100% Kenny, and he's loyal.

Like you said 100% loyalty in a game of choice kind off makes it feel liner, I like him as a charchacter but not as a human being as he's all about him and his own so what happens when he no longer needs Lees support.

Also a Crusade to find his boat that was docked in Florida over three months ago before the end of the world dosen't sound like the best plan given tidal currents, broken sea defences, hurricanes, other survivers and the Bermuda triangle ooooh!

[Lucid_Delusion]

First time poster here but I definitely had a hard time with Kenny's attitude in episode 2. In my first play through I definitely sided with Kenny throughout after making the decision to save Duck at Hershel's. The problem was in the meat locker I chose to try and save Larry instead of siding with him there and it's like things went to hell afterwards with him basically turning on me. It was played up further in the preview for episode 3.

Even when you play the middle ground he still ends up being a dick in the end. That whole unwavering loyalty thing just doesn't suit the way I want to play the Lee character. Nonetheless, I do appreciate the situation Telltale has crafted in that you can't please everyone.

[HyperShot12]

I agree with you completely. At first, I always sided with Kenny. I saved Duck from the zombies at Hershel's Farm in Ep.1, I fed his family and I agreed to everything he said. However, my relationship with Lilly was so bad that I sided with her about trying to help Larry in Ep.2. Even though I had always sided with Kenny, he turned into a total dipsh*t after that. I realized that he only cares about his family, he doesn't give a sh*t about the other survivors. The only reason why he liked Lee is because he wanted someone to protect his family, as he is too much of a pussy to do it himself. Sure, his family is his priority, but did he ever even think about saving Clementine? No. Did he even attempt to save Shaun when I was saving Duck at Hershel's farm? No. He is a bad leader compared to Lilly and when sh*t gets serious, he is only worried about him and his family. F*ck him, he is a wimp and never helps other people!

[Milosuperspesh]

you could also argue that it is only kenny and sometimes lee that actually helps katjaa and duck..

so lilly of course is stuck with larry in ep1 and part of ep2,

clem is covered by lee and carly/doug even duck and katjaa

mark ? he seemingly does nothing to either of the 3 factions he is more a mediator between them.

now we have ben and the two new ones in ep3 to look out for a shemale and an older version of duck...(by looks only)

[Phantom Command]

and a older version of duck...(by looks only)[/QUOTE]

Or not -

Older Duck: I came back from the future to save you Daaaaaad!

Kenny: How?

Older Duck: Clem read Super Dinosaur isse #23 and learnt how to built a time machine.

Lee: Where's Clem?

Older Duck: She wanted to come, but got a tractor to the knee.

Lee: Damb it Duck! "BANG"

After killing young Duck, Big Duck dissapears and is replaced by Big Clem :D

[Milosuperspesh]

not bad but our queen wouldn't risk sending duck solo bag of hammers and all..

[Thugnasty28]

Cmon guys Kenny deserves more credit. IF You're with him 100% he will:

- Gives you a ride to Macon
- comes back to save you at the pharmacy
- fights Danny in the barn
- helps hold off some walkers while you're helping the teacher

My main playthrough is 100% Kenny, and he's loyal.

he does not if you try to save Larry.

[Phantom Command]

Thanks for the fix Milo,

Clem had no choice in sending Duck due to a little problem with a tractor probably caused by him, a la Shawn.

By killing young Duck Lee changes the course of time and so Clem can safely build and use her time machine, maybe I over thought this a little too much

[Milosuperspesh]

your welcome pc :D

over done the role play ?

if you can top my clem thread then yeah thats over doing it ;)

http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29661

[SadClown]

What I don't understand is how I've been 100% loyal to Kenny since episode 1. Agreed with him on everything. Thought he should lead instead of Lilly. Yelled at Larry to protect Duck. Saved Duck from walkers. Always agreed-- Seriously with everything he did. So when I try to save Larry he acts like I'm some immoral monster! Like, really? He acts like I've always hated him. It's not even like I did anything wrong to him either! I gave Duck the benefit of the doubt so I gave the same chance to Larry. But Kenny goes as far as to call me useless and that I'm disloyal!? Why is he so hurt over this -one- decision? So yes, I agree. F*** Kenny.

[Zeruis]

What I don't understand is how I've been 100% loyal to Kenny since episode 1. Agreed with him on everything. Thought he should lead instead of Lilly. Yelled at Larry to protect Duck. Saved Duck from walkers. Always agreed-- Seriously with everything he did. So when I try to save Larry he acts like I'm some immoral monster! Like, really? He acts like I've always hated him. It's not even like I did anything wrong to him either! I gave Duck the benefit of the doubt so I gave the same chance to Larry. But Kenny goes as far as to call me useless and that I'm disloyal!? Why is he so hurt over this -one- decision? So yes, I agree. F*** Kenny.

You forgot to mention the line in the episode 3 trailer: "Screw it. You don't ever listen to anything I say." Wow, this is hotheaded.

[AceStarr]

FUCK KENNY!!!!!(when he geting attacked in a corner by zombie horde) ima look away and save somebody else LOL

[Phantom Command]

your welcome pc :D

over done the role play ?

if you can top my clem thread then yeah thats over doing it ;)

http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29661

Great thread no one can top it, mind = blown:)

[Epicgamer12]

So, does anyone hate Kenny as bad as I do? Once I figured out what kind of guy he was, I did everything in my power to get him out of "the group". If there was an option to piss him off in any way, I did it! And yes, that includes not giving him or his family any food! I also decided not to take the supplies at the end of episode 2. Did anyone else do this?

[chaz99]

I don't hate him, he's just not trustworthy or a true ally. He's willing to sacrifice anybody in the group for his family, whether or not they are immediately at risk. All that is necessary is that Kenny has to believe that they are at risk.

Take the fact that Lee saved Katjaa from both the walker in the Motel parking lot and Mrs. St. John. No thanks or acknowledgement forthcoming.

[jaybreezy]

http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30858

There is already a Hate Kenny thread. Just so ya know.

[Epicgamer12]

I don't hate him, he's just not trustworthy or a true ally. He's willing to sacrifice anybody in the group for his family, whether or not they are immediately at risk. All that is necessary is that Kenny has to believe that they are at risk.

Take the fact that Lee saved Katjaa from both the walker in the Motel parking lot and Mrs. St. John. No thanks or acknowledgement forthcoming.

Exactly, but if he's willing to sacrifice everyone in the group when the shit hits the fan, that makes him an enemy instead of an ally. Also, he makes irrational decisions when things get out of hand. For example, smashing Larry's face with a salt lick, not helping save people including yourself at the farm, etc etc!

[Epicgamer12]

http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30858

There is already a Hate Kenny thread. Just so ya know.

OK, thanks

[Red Panda]

I told myself that I wouldn't do another playthrough until all episodes were out but after ep 2 I have decided to do another run with the sole purpose of treating Kenny like the piece of shit he is.
lol!

[ommmnomnomnom]

FUCK KENNY, FUCK KATJAA, FUCK DUCK, FUCK LARRY, FUCK LILLY, FUCK DOUG, FUCK CARLEY, FUCK THE ST JOHNS, FUCK THAT SWING, FUCK THE COW, FUCK MARK, FUCK BEN, FUCK BENS FRIENDS, FUCK THE BANDITS, FUCK JOLENE, FUCK SUICIDE GIRL, FUCK GLENN AND FINALLY FUCK CLEM...

Team Lee.

[Milosuperspesh]

fuck the whole god damn game except
Lee and glenn.

fixed ;)

[ommmnomnomnom]

fixed ;)

I was going to say thank you, but I need to fix your fix, because I already said fuck Glenn! :O

Thanks anyways lololol

[Milosuperspesh]

dunno how i missed that i even checked it ;)

[ommmnomnomnom]

dunno how i missed that i even checked it ;)

whatchu talkin bout willis?

[Milosuperspesh]

whatchu talkin bout willis?

not seeing you put glenn in your 'fuck post'

[Cyreen]

not seeing you put glenn in your 'fuck post'

He's saving himself for the newbies in the next episode.

[Red Panda]

I like Kenny b/c he's forward thinking. He wants move on and find a permanent safe haven, which is a boat. And that actually makes sense. And despite what happened with Larry, he is caring. I don't blame him.

He's just so hard to get along with. It's all or nothing with him. I don't like him trying to manipulate me by threatening to leave me and Clem behind if I don't side with him. That's kind of wrong.

Lilly isn't much better though. Depending on you choices, she makes the comment she likes the motorinn b/c it's close to the pharmacy, where her dad can get pills. Also, she put the group at risk b/c of her dad. Not to mention she was quick to throw duck under the boss, but wasn't so eager when it was her dad.

They both kind of suck when I think about it. No wonder Carley is a favorite.

[j.em26]

Is there anyone else who has a dislike for Kenny other than me ?
I can understand things and views from Kenny's side. Heck, I would even switch to his side on my second playthrough.

My point is, if I knew Ken under an actual zombie apocalypse, chances are, I would stay away from him.

Let's analyze things neutrally.
Kenny is altruistic, prioritizes his family on hand. Doesn't give a damn about anyone else until his family gets fed and is living well. A few traits of his can actually be observed in his child, Duck. Katjaa, while not as involved as Kenny in the group, is actually pretty much the same as Kenny though, only much more thoughtful and polite, but nontheless the same as Kenny when it comes to prioritizing people.

However, he upholds the responsibility of a real man and a father, what he does is essentially trying to keep his family going.

Your thoughts, people ?
Sorry I posted so much, TWDG isn't just another game for me. It's one of the games I see that allows us to really analyze things from different points of view, and argue with it. Nothing is objective in this game, which is the main reason why I got the game, joined the forum and started posting. Oh, and I'm new :)

[Couldn't_Make_It_Up]

Kenny is the best to follow, at times he may be rash but he reminds me of Rick from the originals.... He's trying to protect his wife and kids and looks out for you and clementine, Lilly and Larry didn't care about anyone apart from each other and in Episode 1 they were more then happy to leave you, Clementine, Kenny and his family outside to the walkers!

The meat locker was grade A hypocrisy from Lilly as well, she was quick to assume that Duck was bitten by walkers and send him outside the store half way through Episode 1 yet as soon as her dad dies of a heart attack in Episode 2 it's a different story!

Personally I think Lilly is too self absorbed and is too content in trying to be a leader then rather looking at the bigger picture. I also noticed that in episode 2 if you claim to be the leader to the brothers when they mention it infront of Lilly and Kenny, Kenny smiles where as Lilly gets annoyed which tells me Lilly wants things doing her way and her way only!!

[Zeruis]

Is there anyone else who has a dislike for Kenny other than me ?
I can understand things and views from Kenny's side. Heck, I would even switch to his side on my second playthrough.

My point is, if I knew Ken under an actual zombie apocalypse, chances are, I would stay away from him.

Let's analyze things neutrally.
Kenny is altruistic, prioritizes his family on hand. Doesn't give a damn about anyone else until his family gets fed and is living well. A few traits of his can actually be observed in his child, Duck. Katjaa, while not as involved as Kenny in the group, is actually pretty much the same as Kenny though, only much more thoughtful and polite, but nontheless the same as Kenny when it comes to prioritizing people.

However, he upholds the responsibility of a real man and a father, what he does is essentially trying to keep his family going.

Your thoughts, people ?
Sorry I posted so much, TWDG isn't just another game for me. It's one of the games I see that allows us to really analyze things from different points of view, and argue with it. Nothing is objective in this game, which is the main reason why I got the game, joined the forum and started posting. Oh, and I'm new :)

You're not alone. I'm done with Kenny after episode 2. Before, I sided with him on everything. But once the meat locker scene came, I sided with Lilly. I don't care if he goes to the coast now. I'm sticking with the rest of the group.

[Cyreen]

These are people thrown together by circumstance, you don't have to like them, but you should be able to trust them. That doesn't apply to Kenny if you disagree with him for any reason. My Lee just does his own thing and sides with whomever I agree with at the time. I honestly don't "like" either Kenny or Lily.

Edit:

Anybody else notice that Kenny never does any heavy lifting? He's always on the sidelines barking orders but the only time you see him actually help is lifting down the air conditioner. Even on Jolene's camcorder, Lee's pushing a car while Kenny's off to the side gesturing.

[YamiRaziel]

j.em26, dude you posted in the **** Kenny thread :D

You can bet that you're not the only one!

[Eric Northman]

I like Kenny, but, he is all out for his family, and I don't think that it matters how much Lee backs him up, if it comes down to it Kenny will sacrifice Lee in order to save his family. While I can understand that, I'm not going to sign up to be anybodies sacrificial lamb.

[AceStarr]

Remember what was said at the Hershals place "Lee dont trust that man"

now that was episode 1 and in episode 2 if you dont side with him in killing Larry he dont care bout you anymore even to the point he wont help you fight the brothers.

Kenny is only bout his family but if you dont side with him 100% he shall stab you in the back :eek:

[ommmnomnomnom]

Yeah I reckon Kenny will betray the group/Lee.

[The13thRonin]

I don't know about the thread title...

I mean you don't know where Kenny has been... :P

[ommmnomnomnom]

I don't know about the thread title...

I mean you don't know where Kenny has been... :P

Inside....Katjaa....bleughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Rommel49]

I like Kenny b/c he's forward thinking. He wants move on and find a permanent safe haven, which is a boat. And that actually makes sense. And despite what happened with Larry, he is caring. I don't blame him.

He's just so hard to get along with. It's all or nothing with him. I don't like him trying to manipulate me by threatening to leave me and Clem behind if I don't side with him. That's kind of wrong.

Lilly isn't much better though. Depending on you choices, she makes the comment she likes the motorinn b/c it's close to the pharmacy, where her dad can get pills. Also, she put the group at risk b/c of her dad. Not to mention she was quick to throw duck under the boss, but wasn't so eager when it was her dad.

They both kind of suck when I think about it. No wonder Carley is a favorite.

Actually, as I've covered in the past, realistically Kenny's plan is one of the worst, from a survival point of view. It's really not forward thinking, when you think about it.

Coastal areas account for the highest population densities, over half the U.S. population lives in less than 20% of the land area, as such it's region that's realistically going to account for the highest number of zombies. Strictly speaking, as a plan to avoid zombies, it sucks. This is what they have to go through just to have a chance of reaching the boat.

There's no guarantee of fresh water, even if his boat has an RO system or similar (which you're not really supposed to let sit idle, which is exactly what it's been doing). Nevermind trying to keep the thing fueled. Sure, they have a problem with lack of food at the inn, but it takes weeks to die of starvation, whereas dehydration will kill you dead in days. Hell, the boat plan doesn't even really solve the food problem; it's not enough to just have food, but the right kinds of food. You can't live on just fish, lack of Vitamin C at a minimum, so you're looking at getting Scurvy.

There's no guarantee the boat's even there, even assuming somebody didn't steal it, the region has this thing called Hurricane season... and there's no longer a weather service to alert you if the area's going to get hit (assuming it hasn't already). And if the region has been hit and even if you survive it? You can't reasonably forage for supplies on the mainland (i.e. back into the densely populated zombie horde) that the boat can't provide, because nothing's getting rebuilt.

Both options suck, but between the two, the inn's actually the better of the two. As Lilly points out, while there is a food shortage (which one could attribute to the group's inexperience with hunting/trapping), the inn has everything else they need. There's access to the pharmacy (which is valuable for reasons beyond her dad's pills, e.g. access to antibiotics) as well as a source of fresh water (which is pretty much the number 1 priority in a survival scenario).

[Cyreen]

Actually, as I've covered in the past, realistically Kenny's plan is one of the worst, from a survival point of view. It's really not forward thinking, when you think about it.

I agree. Not to mention, there's no guarantee the bugger won't try throwing you and Clem overboard during one of his hissy fits.

[Kiel555]

Actually, as I've covered in the past, realistically Kenny's plan is one of the worst, from a survival point of view. It's really not forward thinking, when you think about it.

Coastal areas account for the highest population densities, over half the U.S. population lives in less than 20% of the land area, as such it's region that's realistically going to account for the highest number of zombies. Strictly speaking, as a plan to avoid zombies, it sucks. This is what they have to go through just to have a chance of reaching the boat.



I agree with what you've said I'm just concerned that I may have misled Kenny. I told him I thought it was a good idea for him and his family to go to the coast in the RV while I had no intentions of going with him. Oh well, what's done is done...I'm sure he will be fine.

[Clippersfan86]

I like Kenny b/c he's forward thinking. He wants move on and find a permanent safe haven, which is a boat. And that actually makes sense. And despite what happened with Larry, he is caring. I don't blame him.

He's just so hard to get along with. It's all or nothing with him. I don't like him trying to manipulate me by threatening to leave me and Clem behind if I don't side with him. That's kind of wrong.

Lilly isn't much better though. Depending on you choices, she makes the comment she likes the motorinn b/c it's close to the pharmacy, where her dad can get pills. Also, she put the group at risk b/c of her dad. Not to mention she was quick to throw duck under the boss, but wasn't so eager when it was her dad.

They both kind of suck when I think about it. No wonder Carley is a favorite.

This is the bottom line that people don't seem to be able to see. Both Kenny and Lily are liabilities, poor leaders and have their own agendas above everybody else. Which is why I think the story is going to go the direction of YOU being the leader. You're the only one who's reasonable and clear thinking without a bunch of ulterior motives.

[digimanny]

I agree. Kenny is bad news.

[Astro Boy]

whats the bet's they change it up again in episode 3.

[deadk1ng]

This is the bottom line that people don't seem to be able to see. Both Kenny and Lily are liabilities, poor leaders and have their own agendas above everybody else.

i think more ppl see that then you think, but at the end of epi 2, with larry smushed, lilly's only agenda (if she still has 1) is revenge against kenny which i intend to support.

[Rock114]

What if you side with Lilly and neglect Kenny all the way until the meat locker, then you side with Kenny? Anyone done this yet?

[zgamer]

What if you side with Lilly and neglect Kenny all the way until the meat locker, then you side with Kenny? Anyone done this yet?

Hm...I haven't yet. That is a legitimately interesting question!

[zgamer]

This is the bottom line that people don't seem to be able to see. Both Kenny and Lily are liabilities, poor leaders and have their own agendas above everybody else. Which is why I think the story is going to go the direction of YOU being the leader. You're the only one who's reasonable and clear thinking without a bunch of ulterior motives.

I think that isn't as unforeseen as you think. I totally called that at the very beginning of the episode when you had the option not to support one or the other. It also was emphasized by Carley when she comments that Lee should take more initiative.

I totally want the story to go that way because it just adds to the "make difficult choices" angle of the game. I don't hate either Kenny or Lilly (though Kenny has done the more reprehensible thing as of now), but my Lee would certainly be a more transparent leader.

Though to be fair, almost every version of Lee has some slight ulterior motives that affects their decisions (Covering up his past, Clementine, etc). Just goes to show no leader is perfect.

[zgamer]

I wonder if Kenny or Lee will acknowledge the dichotomy of the situation my Lee has put him in with the next episode. I had been totally on Kenny's side on a lot of things (defending Duck from Larry, saving Duck over Shawn, feeding Duck, saving Katjaa) and the only thing where I openly disagreed with him was with killing Larry.

It feels like from the previews that Kenny is just going to dangle the Larry thing as a reason to hate Lee. I would just love for Lee to point all of this out to him though to show that he is not Kenny's enemy!

[Rock114]

Turns out if you treat Kenny like shit the entire way, but help him with Larry, he still backs you up with Danny. The game just takes into account your choice right at that moment I guess, instead of everything you've done up until then.

[Cyreen]

Yeah, he's just fickle.

[godzilla999666]

Naw he jusr has adhd which he passed onto duck. He can't focus on anything other than the most recent desicion which he uses as his base for his attitude.

[Cyreen]

There's a thought. For all those people who love Kenny but hate Duck, maybe Duck really is "Kenny Junior".

[thestalkinghead]

There's a thought. For all those people who love Kenny but hate Duck, maybe Duck really is "Kenny Junior".

as in kennys fishing boat story is just a cover, and he and katjaa are actually scientist looking after the first human clone?

[Cyreen]

as in kennys fishing boat story is just a cover, and he and katjaa are actually scientist looking after the first human clone?

As in the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

[thestalkinghead]

As in the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

maybe i have an optimistic view of children, but i don't see any reason why duck wouldn't grow up to be come an accomplished well rounded adult, but that doesn't mean that he cant be a bit of an idiot as a child,

the way i see it, is that most people are just a combination of their parents in a more modern environment, so duck (if he and his family live) will probably just turn out to be just like katjaa and kenny but with the skills to survive post ZA

[Cyreen]

Don't get me wrong, Duck definitely has the potential to be a better person than his father, assuming he survives long enough. His questioning his dad about the car is sort of his awakening and I see him challenging his father at some point.

My previous comment was more about the tree than the apple.

[Hudomonkey]

I sided with kenny until the meat locker and I tried to save Larry
The worst thing was I saw Larry was starting to breath again just before Kenny murdered him
I only sided with Kenny because it was kind of the right thing to do but in the meat locker he became the bad guy

[Hudomonkey]

I wonder if Kenny or Lee will acknowledge the dichotomy of the situation my Lee has put him in with the next episode. I had been totally on Kenny's side on a lot of things (defending Duck from Larry, saving Duck over Shawn, feeding Duck, saving Katjaa) and the only thing where I openly disagreed with him was with killing Larry.

It feels like from the previews that Kenny is just going to dangle the Larry thing as a reason to hate Lee. I would just love for Lee to point all of this out to him though to show that he is not Kenny's enemy!

He doesn't really care

And I would rather be on the side of a grieving person who has always tried her best than a murdering backstabber

[Rock114]

There's a thought. For all those people who love Kenny but hate Duck, maybe Duck really is "Kenny Junior".

Actually, Katjaa says something similar to what Kenny says about Duck when you first meet them.

In episode 2, when helping patch up whoever you brought back to the motor inn,if you choose to tell her "It's what your husband wanted..."

Katjaa: "I love that man to death, but sometimes he's dumber than a bag of hammers."

Guess the apple really DOESN'T fall all that far from the tree.

[Merc]

He doesn't really care

And I would rather be on the side of a grieving person who has always tried her best than a murdering backstabber

And I'd rather be on the side of someone who's always laid his cards out on the table and has had my back for months now, rather than a person who is only human when it's convenient for them.

[Necrosoul]

As EP 3 gets ready to drop I must say to everyone here....... Hello and welcome back.

[deadk1ng]

Just wondering how many of the kenny supporters who so fervently defended his actions in episode 2 are still his "bro for life?"

[TrickyD]

Always stood by him until what he did/didn't do at the start of Ep3.

[kirby18]

i think kenny will change now into a true friend... since he has nothing left and he knows how Lee has actually stuck with him and he will be there for him. We see this first hand when he lets down his defense to teach omid how to drive the train "incase something happens to me". i expect to see him take risks more often to benefit the group. i wouldnt be surprised if he sacrifices his life. hes not going to leave the group now

[Necrosoul]

Ok is it just me or did some of the stuff we said in here make it into this EP?

[marcu5]

i think kenny will change now into a true friend... since he has nothing left and he knows how Lee has actually stuck with him and he will be there for him. We see this first hand when he lets down his defense to teach omid how to drive the train "incase something happens to me". i expect to see him take risks more often to benefit the group. i wouldnt be surprised if he sacrifices his life. hes not going to leave the group now

or he can become complete unhinged and turn on me; claim ass of this is my fault.

i can already see it now "i wanted to leave the inn, but you guys stayed until the bandits showed up. i told you it would happen!"

[YamiRaziel]

We're back in my favourite thread :D Nice.
Kenny got what he deserved. It was sad for Katjaa though. Even Duck grew on me, with him taking the mantle of Robin and letting me Batman. That was cute :D
Kenny destroyed this group. It's all a chain reaction from his stupid actions in the meat locker. He was very quick to eliminate the threat but when it came to Duck HE SHOWED HIS TRUE COLOURS. He didn't hurry and drop a salt lick on his head, right? He chickened out when it was someone he loved at stake.
Have anything to say about that Sisterofshane? I'm eagerly anticipating your comments in this thread. Please PM me when you've responded :P

It may sound pretty odd but I'm still a supporter for team Lily.
Kenny abandoned me like too many times in episode 3 and once again was a irrational prick. He wanted to actually leave Lily in the Hotel just because he killed her father and hated himself. I mean... wtf.
It was sad to see Lily snap like that but I guess everybody pushed her. Carley should've been there for her instead of being all "on everybody's good side". Her flirting with Lee didn't help either I guess. In the end she stood for Ben who she hardly knew and once again ignored a very bad situation where our entire group almost got obliterated.
I'm actually more saddened by Lily leaving me than Carley dying. Would've been cool to actually invite me in her room instead of playing with me like a typical girl.

[mooneysuzuki]

how you guys are still Lilly fans is beyond me. RIP carley!

[YamiRaziel]

As the only other character in this story who has to do the tough choices I can relate to her. All the others, they don't have a clue what it is to bear the choices you've had to made.

Lily's been taking care of this group for the entire episode 2 and half 3. She had to ration food, make tough choices when nobody even wanted to vote and in the end they all jumped on her and Kenny even suggested that they leave her at the motel.
Ben and Kenny brought this on the group so the deaths of Duck, Katjaa and Carley are on their hands.
Yeah, Lily pulled the trigger, but there was a traitor among them. Carley again tried to slide away and be the cute girl who is always the good one in everybody's eyes. Well I guess she fooled most of you.

[HeyMyNameIsRyan]

If you treat Kenny like a piece of crap, who saves you from Danny? Lilly?

Anyone have tried this?

Yeah I sided with Lily in a playthrough. Lily shoots Danny in like the arm or something.

[mooneysuzuki]

As the only other character in this story who has to do the tough choices I can relate to her. All the others, they don't have a clue what it is to bear the choices you've had to made.

Lily's been taking care of this group for the entire episode 2 and half 3. She had to ration food, make tough choices when nobody even wanted to vote and in the end they all jumped on her and Kenny even suggested that they leave her at the motel.
Ben and Kenny brought this on the group so the deaths of Duck, Katjaa and Carley are on their hands.
Yeah, Lily pulled the trigger, but there was a traitor among them. Carley again tried to slide away and be the cute girl who is always the good one in everybody's eyes. Well I guess she fooled most of you.

Im sorry man i could see in episode 2 how people could side will Lilly but come on she fucks you over no matter what. You could be on her side for everything and she still drives off without you. Seriously fuck her. And who made her an executioner? Get shot for possibly stealing supplies? Tad bit extreme don't you think?

[YamiRaziel]

Definitely. I'm, however, more intrigued by the reasons that made her do it. I do not agree with what she did, but it isn't only her fault. Kenny drove her to this mental state. I blame him even more than I blame her.

Also, nobody made Kenny an executioner but he did off Larry. He is the one that made her snap, she wasn't like that in the previous episodes.

[mooneysuzuki]

Ohh ok I understand what your getting at now, took me a second haha. While I don't personally see it that way I could get behind that rational and see how you came to that.

[Bashtee]

You could be on her side for everything and she still drives off without you. Seriously fuck her.

Well yeah, but then again - to provide such freedom in the story development you would probably have episodes twice as big as the previous ones. It would be unique and I would love to see it. But that's something I haven't even seen in a triple AAA game lately (maybe Heavy Rain? But not to such a big degree). Just imagine how people would react if they were told that every episode would be postponed by at least another month...

The only thing with Kenny which actually fucked me up was his reaction after you tried to rescue Larry. But charma is a bitch, no?

[Dante30]

We're back in my favourite thread :D Nice.
Kenny got what he deserved. It was sad for Katjaa though. Even Duck grew on me, with him taking the mantle of Robin and letting me Batman. That was cute :D
Kenny destroyed this group. It's all a chain reaction from his stupid actions in the meat locker. He was very quick to eliminate the threat but when it came to Duck HE SHOWED HIS TRUE COLOURS. He didn't hurry and drop a salt lick on his head, right? He chickened out when it was someone he loved at stake.
Have anything to say about that Sisterofshane? I'm eagerly anticipating your comments in this thread. Please PM me when you've responded :P

It may sound pretty odd but I'm still a supporter for team Lily.
Kenny abandoned me like too many times in episode 3 and once again was a irrational prick. He wanted to actually leave Lily in the Hotel just because he killed her father and hated himself. I mean... wtf.
It was sad to see Lily snap like that but I guess everybody pushed her. Carley should've been there for her instead of being all "on everybody's good side". Her flirting with Lee didn't help either I guess. In the end she stood for Ben who she hardly knew and once again ignored a very bad situation where our entire group almost got obliterated.
I'm actually more saddened by Lily leaving me than Carley dying. Would've been cool to actually invite me in her room instead of playing with me like a typical girl.


Everything you said there i agree with, especially about Lilly! She's been my favorite character since she came into the game, and i was so upset when she left, especially when i said i wanted to go with her, but when i stepped out of the RV she dipped on me!...I didn't even feel like playing anymore.

I am predicting though that we'll see Lilly again in a future episode, that would make this amazing game even better!

[marcu5]

where is sisterofshane, i also await her response

[YamiRaziel]

Guys, I have a question regarding Kenny and the events in the meat locker.
Did he tell Katjaa in your playthrough? Did you tell her?

In mine, he didn't. I guess he didn't think she would understand. He didn't think he had done the right decision.
In my playthrough Katjaa even asked me if I killed Larry after I told her I was a murderer.
How did you handle this out?

[LokiHavok]

Never told Katjaa of my secret. Didn't think she'd understand. And Kenny didn't tell her about Larry either. Likely for the same reason.

[YamiRaziel]

Apparently Kenny didn't tell Carley and Ben as well.

[Kiel555]

Guys, I have a question regarding Kenny and the events in the meat locker.
Did he tell Katjaa in your playthrough? Did you tell her?

In mine, he didn't. I guess he didn't think she would understand. He didn't think he had done the right decision.
In my playthrough Katjaa even asked me if I killed Larry after I told her I was a murderer.
How did you handle this out?

I trusted Kat enough to tell her Lee's "secret". She then asked Lee what happened in the meat locker. I told her Kenny killed Larry with the salt lick while Lee was giving Larry CPR.

With Kenny, I spoke to him as little as possible. He needs to go away. Not sure what to do with him but looks like he's tagging along in e4. I did not tell Kenny Lee's secret, no trust between us.
I also agree with your post #641 on this thread. Good post.

[YamiRaziel]

I trusted Kat enough to tell her Lee's "secret". She then asked Lee what happened in the meat locker. I told her Kenny killed Larry with the salt lick while Lee was giving Larry CPR.

With Kenny, I spoke to him as little as possible. He needs to go away. Not sure what to do with him but looks like he's tagging along in e4.

I also agree with your post #641 on this thread. Good post.

Thank you, mate. We likes of us are a minority here. Most are either Kenny's buddies or Carley-Lee romance suckers :D

How did Kat react when you told her about Kenny? I'm really curious. Might do a second playthrough just to find out.
To me this episode feels harder to replay. It's just that so much goes wrong...

[Kiel555]

Thank you, mate. We likes of us are a minority here. Most are either Kenny's buddies or Carley-Lee romance suckers :D

How did Kat react when you told her about Kenny? I'm really curious. Might do a second playthrough just to find out.
To me this episode feels harder to replay. It's just that so much goes wrong...

Her reaction was shock then she walked away looking depressed. Lee called her and she said " everything keeps changing" in a sad way.

I don't know how people can play multiple playthroughs of this game. I'm doing one and only one playthrough until the game is done. Then...maybe I'll go back and play the whole game again making different choices.

[YamiRaziel]

I actually find it really hard to make different choices. There are some that I just can't make.

Killing Larry for example. I just cannot stand that scene and I can never willingly put Lily through it. It would feel as if I let Ben take Duck away and smash his head with a big rock while I hold Katjaa's hands behind her back.
I can never side with Kenny for most situations as well. I just cannot accept his way of thinking and acting.

I can, however, choose Doug over Carley, I can let the brothers live, I can let the girl be eaten at the beginning of episode 3 and I can let Shawn die, but I do not enjoy doing it. It feels wrong.

[Kiel555]

True. If it's just an opportunity to do what you think is wrong just to see what it's like then I'll take a pass on replaying season 1 and just wait for season 2. But the game is not over...maybe other choices along with Doug next time would make it worthwhile.

[YamiRaziel]

Now that you know what happens in episode three, will that affect your choices in episode 1 and 2 if you decide to do a replay?

[Wrighty]

Least Kenny doesn't turn insane and becomes judge, jury and executioner.

I honestly have no idea why people hate Kenny.

[YamiRaziel]

Least Kenny doesn't turn insane and becomes judge, jury and executioner.

I honestly have no idea why people hate Kenny.

He was already insane and I'm sure he'll get even worse.
You do remember that he kept yelling "Leave Lilly behind" long before she did the thing that started your witchhunt?
Kenny puts my life in risk far too many times.

[Wrighty]

When did Kenny say to leave Lilly behind? Wasnt this when both zombies and bandits were attacking the camp and the entire group was in one exposed RV? Kennys family had just been attacked and he wanted to get them out of there ASAP. Also Lilly was nuts and was becoming a hindrance.

Also when exactly does Kenny endanger your life?

[YamiRaziel]

He endangers my life throughout the entire game. Seriously with all he has done to me, if the game allowed me I would've left him for walker food.
And yes he does yell "Leave Lilly behind" when she had just saved our entire group. Maybe she should've left him behind so the bandits can blow his brains out. At this point she hadn't done anything bad or extreme, the only murderer there was Kenny (remember Larry).

[Wrighty]

It's the zombie apocalypse, good people sometimes have to be left behind, the longer the RV just sits there, the higher the chance no one gets away.

Still waiting for moments when Kenny actually endangers you. :P

[Red Panda]

When did Kenny say to leave Lilly behind? Wasnt this when both zombies and bandits were attacking the camp and the entire group was in one exposed RV? Kennys family had just been attacked and he wanted to get them out of there ASAP. Also Lilly was nuts and was becoming a hindrance.

Also when exactly does Kenny endanger your life?

Lee says, "Lilly come on!" and Kenny replies "Leave her!"

He almost let me die on that damn farm, letting Danny St. John shoot me.

Then he was going to let me die in the Pharmacy when the door was on top of me.

Granted, none of that would have happened if I sided with him 100% of the time but I didn't so F*** Kenny.

[YamiRaziel]

There are too many, seriously. Watch a playthrough with someone that backs up Lilly.
He leaves me to die to the Saint John brothers even when I'm helping him rescue his family. That's because I didn't agree with him on killing Larry. Early in episode 3 he drops me on the car windshield, then leaves me trapped under a door and there were some other occasions as well. At some point I stopped counting.

[Wrighty]

Well I have a different Kenny who helped me lift the door, and is a genuine nice guy. Also Lilly didn't help me fight against the St Johns.

There's no point debating those sorts of things because it's tailored to your game. However doesn't Kenny save your life after Larry knocks you down? Even if you didn't support him? Isnt that apart of every game? Also doesn't Lilly go mental in every game? :P

[bazenji]

Kenny drops you because he has a gunshot wound. My randomly generated KENNY AND LEE -- BEST FRIENDS FOR-E-VAH! opening sequence has him drop Lee too.

Some things to note. Kenny never leaves you to die and he saves your life more often than you save his.

I'm trying to think of some time I actually kept him from dying and I can't think of one. I don't think there's even an opportunity to do so.

[YamiRaziel]

Even if you save Duck instead of Shawn, and later save Duck and Katjaa in episode two, he will still leave you to die in ep 2 and 3 if you didn't help him kill Larry.

[Zeruis]

I'm getting worried about this guy. Everything he has done up to this point has been for his family. What will he do now...?

[YamiRaziel]

I just look at how Lilly was affected only because of her father and I can't help but feel really worried as to what is Kenny gonna pull on us. The deaths of both Duck and Katjaa will be too much for him to handle.

My prediction is that at some point he will get so depressed that he'll try to kill us all with words like "Lee, there's not hope and you know it. Better die this way than getting eaten by a walker. Do what's best for Clem, Lee! You got to back me up on this, Lee!"

[Eric Northman]

He was already insane and I'm sure he'll get even worse.
You do remember that he kept yelling "Leave Lilly behind" long before she did the thing that started your witchhunt?
Kenny puts my life in risk far too many times.

Yeah, I love in episode three that he won't help you get out from under the door the walkers have pushed on you, if you aren't his BFF.

[Wrighty]

I just look at how Lilly was affected only because of her father and I can't help but feel really worried as to what is Kenny gonna pull on us. The deaths of both Duck and Katjaa will be too much for him to handle.

My prediction is that at some point he will get so depressed that he'll try to kill us all with words like "Lee, there's not hope and you know it. Better die this way than getting eaten by a walker. Do what's best for Clem, Lee! You got to back me up on this, Lee!"

Kenny hasnt turned paranoid or turning guns on people, no reason to think he's gone insane.Literally nothing.

And Kenny may kill himself but he wouldn't do anything to the others. He tried to tell Lee how to work the train in case he dies, so he obviously still cares about him and probably Clem. He wants them to do well after he has gone, not make some suicide pact.

[Cyreen]

I'm getting worried about this guy. Everything he has done up to this point has been for his family. What will he do now...?

I think Kenny will continue to voice the easy way out, while Clem is Lee's moral compass. I don't think Kenny's going to burn up like Lilly. I think his character deserves a little redemption before he goes.

[YamiRaziel]

Kenny hasnt turned paranoid or turning guns on people, no reason to think he's gone insane.Literally nothing.

And Kenny may kill himself but he wouldn't do anything to the others. He tried to tell Lee how to work the train in case he dies, so he obviously still cares about him and probably Clem. He wants them to do well after he has gone, not make some suicide pact.

In my story he left me for dead far too many times. I can never forgive him that, especially considering the fact that I always help and feed Robin. I even saved Katjaa for God's sake...and he just left me trapped under that door.
It's like I've done something bad to him. I tried to save a life at the meat locker... it's not like I killed somebody. He just hates me because he knows he was wrong back then. That makes him much more unhinged than Lilly will ever be. Give him some time... he hasn't yet fully realized the death of his family.

[Wrighty]

In my story he left me for dead far too many times. I can never forgive him that, especially considering the fact that I always help and feed Robin. I even saved Katjaa for God's sake...and he just left me trapped under that door.
It's like I've done something bad to him. I tried to save a life at the meat locker... it's not like I killed somebody. He just hates me because he knows he was wrong back then. That makes him much more unhinged than Lilly will ever be. Give him some time... he hasn't yet fully realized the death of his family.

He's thinking practically. Isn't it better one escapes with the supplies than both die? And he was probably thinking about his family. If he dies they have no-one to look out for them. We can't all be heroes, sometimes you have to just run.

Besides not immediately running to your rescue doesn't mean he hates you at all.

[YamiRaziel]

He's thinking practically. Isn't it better one escapes with the supplies than both die? And he was probably thinking about his family. If he dies they have no-one to look out for them. We can't all be heroes, sometimes you have to just run.

Besides not immediately running to your rescue doesn't mean he hates you at all.

He didn't run to my rescue at all, man. He just left me save my own skin both in ep 2 and 3. He also blamed me for for shooting the girl at ep 3. I guess our moral codes differ way too much for to be getting along.

[marcu5]

wrighty, why do i get the feeling you're sisterofshane? :) registered today, you're not fooling me.

[marcu5]

Also when exactly does Kenny endanger your life?

when he allows his infected son on the train

[YamiRaziel]

wrighty, why do i get the feeling you're sisterofshane? :) registered today, you're not fooling me.

He's not. She's coming to the forums tomorrow :P We're all anticipating her arrival it seems :D

[Wrighty]

wrighty, why do i get the feeling you're sisterofshane? :) registered today, you're not fooling me.

Lol, ive never heard the name. Is he a fellow diehard Kenny supporter?
I joined recently because I really liked ep 3 and wanted to talk about it.

Also Kenny saves your life in ep 1 even if you don't save Duck. Just saying.

[marcu5]

Lol, ive never heard the name. Is he a fellow diehard Kenny supporter?
I joined recently because I really liked ep 3 and wanted to talk about it.

Also Kenny saves your life in ep 1 even if you don't save Duck. Just saying.

and i've saved duck and his family more than kenny has, what's your point?

[Rock114]

Kenny's actions don't seem bull-headed or stupid or cowardly from my point of view. If I thought we could've saved Larry, I would have. He speaks more sense to me than Lilly ever did, especially because of how we were intorduced to Lilly. You only get one first impression, remember. Kenny had my back all the time, even when I shot the girl in 3 and didn't take the supplies in 2. Even when I had directly put the both of us in danger when I shot the girl and drew walkers to our position, he still ran back and helped me.

Although he's my friend, even I noticed his diminishing humanity in 3. When he wanted to leave the girl, and even when I told him my secret. If you helped with Larry, he says "It doesn't matter who we used to be, man." That really got to me. Plus, blaming me for the lack of supplies we brought back...

He's not perfect, and I might have left him after 3 if his family hadn't bit the bullet. But he's been through so much now it would feel criminal to just abandon him with a bunch of strangers and a stupid kid like Ben. I haven't even repaid him for saving me in the pharmacy back in 1 yet...

[Wrighty]

and i've saved duck and his family more than kenny has, what's your point?

He doesn't seem the sort of guy to hold a grudge over Larry.

Don't help Duck-Kenny saves you
Don't help him kill Larry-Leaves you?

I think if Kenny didn't help you it wasn't because he was bitter, he just didn't want to die and leave his family. Maybe he thought you were a lost cause.

[deadfan]

You do understand as long as you have his back he has yours right?

He ends up saving you at the "Danny execution" scene.

Right, but Lilly has your back if you decide to help save her dad.

I also noticed that in EP 3 when the door comes down in the store on Lee Kenny won't help you if you made him mad.

[Wrighty]

Right, but Lilly has your back if you decide to help save her dad.

I also noticed that in EP 3 when the door comes down in the store on Lee Kenny won't help you if you made him mad.

Mad about what, leaving?

And there's no sure fire proof that Kenny left you just because he was pissed at you, again maybe he thought you were just a goner.

[YamiRaziel]

Mad about what, leaving?

And there's no sure fire proof that Kenny left you just because he was pissed at you, again maybe he thought you were just a goner.

Don't you think he's like thinking way too much?
I don't want him to think but to grow some balls and act. He does act the only time I didn't want him to (meat locker scene).

As Rock114 said his humanity diminishes by the minute.

[Wrighty]

Don't you think he's like thinking way too much?
I don't want him to think but to grow some balls and act. He does act the only time I didn't want him to (meat locker scene).

As Rock114 said his humanity diminishes by the minute.

Maybe he was the only one thinking clearly in the locker. I already wrote about what danger Larry was, how he could have killed everyone. And he saved Lee in ep 1 and charged a man with a gun in ep 2. I think he has balls AND a brain.

My point is Kenny isn't some superhero, he is willing to leave people who need his help sometimes, to save himself and his family. That's probably why he lived so long. It's not like he bolted either. He is just a normal man and a good one at that.

Also I see nothing that tells me Kenny is some evil douche. For example if you see your friend is in a burning house, and you don't rush in, does that make you evil? What if he isn't even your friend? That was the situation with Kenny.

[YamiRaziel]

I was trying to revive Larry. It was my frickkin call, he shouldn't have interfered. Lilly and I took the risk, if someone was to be bitten, it would've been us.

He doesn't charge the man with the gun if I do not help him kill Larry! Why? I suddenly became a monster for not siding with him one single time?
I think it's because he's so ashamed of himself for what he has done that he wants me gone for good. He knows Lee's a better man than him that's why he left me under the door and considered leaving without me.

With him it's a constant battle between wanting to get rid of me and realizing that I'm the best chance for survival his family has.

[QuarterPounderVlad]

What... The heck.

How about I say Fuck lilly? No offense to the fans, Of course. But Kenny Is way more cooler Imho, He stands up for the group, While Lilly flees like a coward.
My opinion, Please don't hate on this.

[Wrighty]

I was trying to revive Larry. It was my frickkin call, he shouldn't have interfered. Lilly and I took the risk, if someone was to be bitten, it would've been us.

He doesn't charge the man with the gun if I do not help him kill Larry! Why? I suddenly became a monster for not siding with him one single time?
I think it's because he's so ashamed of himself for what he has done that he wants me gone for good. He knows Lee's a better man than him that's why he left me under the door and considered leaving without me.

With him it's a constant battle between wanting to get rid of me and realizing that I'm the best chance for survival his family has.

With that call, you gamble with the lives of his family. Larry may not just bite you, may just devour everyone in the room. And what if you don't find a way out in time? Then Lee/Lilly turns and everyone dies. Kenny isn't the sort of guy to just watch you make the wrong decision, he will act.

And again, Kenny watching you fight didn't happen for me, so I don't really care. But he needed your help, to make the right choice, to save everyone. You left him to shoulder the guilt alone. He is ofc angry with you. But Lilly left me to die, so I can't comment. :P

Also I believe Kenny is a good man who puts family and himself first, and I honestly can't blame him. Its the same for Lee and Clem. I do think Kenny actually likes Lee, because he tells him how to work the train. A man who hated him wouldn't do that.

[YamiRaziel]

With that call, you gamble with the lives of his family. Larry may not just bite you, may just devour everyone in the room. And what if you don't find a way out in time? Then Lee/Lilly turns and everyone dies. Kenny isn't the sort of guy to just watch you make the wrong decision, he will act.

And again, Kenny watching you fight didn't happen for me, so I don't really care. But he needed your help, to make the right choice, to save everyone. You left him to shoulder the guilt alone. He is ofc angry with you. But Lilly left me to die, so I can't comment. :P

Also I believe Kenny is a good man who puts family and himself first, and I honestly can't blame him. Its the same for Lee and Clem. I do think Kenny actually likes Lee, because he tells him how to work the train. A man who hated him wouldn't do that.

I will never agree that killing Larry was the right call. If we can make exception for Duck, we can make one for Larry. I didn't kill Larry and I tolerated Duck around even though I knew he was doomed. Despite the fact that Kenny left me far too many times, I still offered to finish Duck. This is my moral code at least. I also killed the girl at the beginning of ep 3 because that was the right selfless thing to do. That's why makes us different from the bandits for example.

I suggest you play a Pro-Lilly playthrough. It might open your eyes as to what man Kenny really is. Even better, play pro Kenny until the meat locker moment and then switch to Lilly!

[Wrighty]

I will never agree that killing Larry was the right call. If we can make exception for Duck, we can make one for Larry. I didn't kill Larry and I tolerated Duck around even though I knew he was doomed. Despite the fact that Kenny left me far too many times, I still offered to finish Duck. This is my moral code at least. I also killed the girl at the beginning of ep 3 because that was the right selfless thing to do. That's why makes us different from the bandits for example.

I suggest you play a Pro-Lilly playthrough. It might open your eyes as to what man Kenny really is. Even better, play pro Kenny until the meat locker moment and then switch to Lilly!

After what she did to Carely, I couldnt do it. I'm so bitter I would treat Lilly badly, so sorry. :P

Also the situations between Larry and Duck are completely different to me. Several factors are different like how Duck is small, we aren't trapped in a small place, and we have weapons and Duck hadn't died yet so he had time to convince Kenny. And I'm simply not heartless enough to kill Duck without Kennys permission, and since the situation was different . My Lee simply thought it was best for everyone to kill Larry. Duck on the other hand wasn't as much as a threat to the whole group.

[marcu5]

With that call, you gamble with the lives of his family.

but some how you still miss the connection between that and letting duck stay in the rv or train. it was more likely that duck would kill everyone on the train (which happens if you don't get kenny to stop the train)

[marcu5]

After what she did to Carely, I couldnt do it. I'm so bitter I would treat Lilly badly, so sorry. :P

Also the situations between Larry and Duck are completely different to me. Several factors are different like how Duck is small, we aren't trapped in a small place, and we have weapons and Duck hadn't died yet so he had time to convince Kenny. And I'm simply not heartless enough to kill Duck without Kennys permission, and since the situation was different . My Lee simply thought it was best for everyone to kill Larry. Duck on the other hand wasn't as much as a threat to the whole group.

kenny caused lilly to become unhinged to begin with. you're "sisterofshane" rationale is just like kennys. i'm surprised you haven't said "it was possible he wasn't infected"

it's okay to kill larry w/o lillys permission, but it's not kill duck w/o their permission when it's 100% certain he'll become a zombie. i really wish TTG would have let me call kenny out on his hypocrisy -- or better yet, lilly should have shot duck instead of carly. that should have been the boiling point with the group, not the bandit situation

[Sisterofshane]

Love when I'm being called out by name... LOL! I said I was done here but I guess I'm back by popular demand!

"Kenny destroyed this group". Personally, I think Lilly could shoulder part of the blame on this one as well. The situation that we had was two VERY strong personalities, each with a different plan, butting heads on every issue. I think Kenny had every right to be upset with her, because it was ultimately her selfishness regarding her father (and the need for his medicine) that kept them at the motor inn much longer than they should have been. Would she ever have suggested that they stay in the face of starvation if it wasn't for the pharmacy? I don't think so. Personally, I think Kenny was right that we needed to at least CONSIDER leaving the motor inn. Had we left BEFORE we started to become desperate for food, we would not have ever made it to the St. John's meat locker and Larry would (probably) not be dead now, would he? :D


"He was very quick to eliminate the threat but when it came to Duck HE SHOWED HIS TRUE COLOURS." What we are talking about here are two VERY different situations. Duck being bitten did not make him an immediate threat to everyone's safety. Irene had been bitten - she was VERY sick. But I think everyone would agree that she didn't need to be killed IMMEDIATELY. Back in the drug store, many people argued that Duck did not need to be immediately killed as Larry was suggesting (many people here have said the same thing, you yourself, Yami, didn't change your mind until Kenny ticked you off, and you went back through to retroactively change your decisions!). Even as you sit, ready to pull the trigger, you can realize that Duck is of actually little threat to the rest of the group. I've said it before - if I had the TIME to let Lilly grieve, I would have. The difference is that, in Larry's situation, there would have NEVER been enough time to grieve and let her make the decision. Katjaa and Kenny had much more time to reflect and say goodbye, and you CAN convince Kenny that it needs to happen. (I don't think that Lilly would have ever come to terms with the fact that Larry was as good as dead).

"It was sad to see Lily snap like that but I guess everybody pushed her." Nobody more so than her father. Let me explain - Lilly had a HUGE dependency on her father. I think a lot of what she did was to gain his approval (just look at the way she beams when Larry talks about her having "more balls"). In the end, though, he never let her BE HER OWN PERSON. If she ever said something contrary to what he wanted, he would just shout over her. He always pushed the "Us vs. them" mentality, even when it was clearly doing more harm than good. He made it impossible for her to compromise on issues, or maybe even see the issues clearly (his heart condition was more important to her than finding food, for example). He pretty much set her up to fail in the event of his death. Speaking as a mother, the single MOST important factor to me, in raising my child, is for her to be able to LIVE ON without me. I want her to be strong and independent, and to have a good life not handicapped by the need to have me around. Losing a parent is something that she must be able to live through, no matter how sudden, terrible, or traumatic my death may be. Lilly was INCAPABLE of moving on. Yes, we should feel bad for her and empathize with her, but the scene in the meat locker is only one small FRACTION to use to blame.

"In the end she stood for Ben who she hardly knew and once again ignored a very bad situation where our entire group almost got obliterated." I believe Carley/Doug were in the right here. Lilly has her suspicions, but never goes beyond "He's the new Guy!" in her argument. She then supercedes the wishes and authority of everyone else in the group (let's be honest - it is NOT healthy to give one person the power to decide who lives and who dies - I think that is the heart of the argument behind why everyone is so mad at Kenny after the meat locker, no?) by trying to kill Ben. To be frank, what Ben did was wrong, but did it DESERVE death? Kenny and Katjaa were about the only one's with the right to decide Ben's fate, with his actions being more or less responsible for the death of their son. To frame the argument in a different way, should Lee be held responsible for mark and Larry's death if he suggested that they should go to the dairy? If he should, did the group then have the obligation to KILL Lee for his complicity (either direct or indirect) in these deaths?

LOL - WOW that is long! I guess tldr; I disagree with you Yami:p! I think I'll leave it at that for tonight!We're back in my favourite thread :D Nice.
Kenny got what he deserved. It was sad for Katjaa though. Even Duck grew on me, with him taking the mantle of Robin and letting me Batman. That was cute :D
Kenny destroyed this group. It's all a chain reaction from his stupid actions in the meat locker. He was very quick to eliminate the threat but when it came to Duck HE SHOWED HIS TRUE COLOURS. He didn't hurry and drop a salt lick on his head, right? He chickened out when it was someone he loved at stake.
Have anything to say about that Sisterofshane? I'm eagerly anticipating your comments in this thread. Please PM me when you've responded :P

It may sound pretty odd but I'm still a supporter for team Lily.
Kenny abandoned me like too many times in episode 3 and once again was a irrational prick. He wanted to actually leave Lily in the Hotel just because he killed her father and hated himself. I mean... wtf.
It was sad to see Lily snap like that but I guess everybody pushed her. Carley should've been there for her instead of being all "on everybody's good side". Her flirting with Lee didn't help either I guess. In the end she stood for Ben who she hardly knew and once again ignored a very bad situation where our entire group almost got obliterated.
I'm actually more saddened by Lily leaving me than Carley dying. Would've been cool to actually invite me in her room instead of playing with me like a typical girl.

[marcu5]

speak of the devil :)

[Sisterofshane]

kenny caused lilly to become unhinged to begin with. you're "sisterofshane" rationale is just like kennys. i'm surprised you haven't said "it was possible he wasn't infected"

it's okay to kill larry w/o lillys permission, but it's not kill duck w/o their permission when it's 100% certain he'll become a zombie. i really wish TTG would have let me call kenny out on his hypocrisy -- or better yet, lilly should have shot duck instead of carly. that should have been the boiling point with the group, not the bandit situation

Insults unnecessary please! I don't bad mouth you on other threads, I would appreciate not being reduced to the butt of a joke in here simply because you disagree.:mad:

What about "immediate" threat do you not get? Were you also upset that you did not get to kill Irene the second you realized she was bit? Duck has to DIE first to become a walker - his bite was not an instantaneous death, and Larry was pretty much dead when he hit the floor(several EMT's have come on the forums to agree with this assessment!).

Besides, let's TRULY reverse the situations. Let's say that Duck had dropped unconscious right in front of us. He wasn't breathing, and CPR was not reviving him in a 2-3 minute period. Guess what? I would have suggested that we destroy Duck's brain (I think Lilly and Larry would have too, and would have given Kenny and Katjaa less of the benefit of the doubt than I did). If Larry had been bit by a Walker, I would have let Lilly stay with Larry until he was on the brink of death, just like Duck had been. I would have taken the time to convince her that it needed to be done if she was in denial. I would have then offered to take the shot to spare Lilly the trauma of having to kill her father. So now, where is the hypocrisy? As for Kenny, both he and Katjaa come to conclusion that Duck needs to be killed - in fact, it is Katjaa herself that gets Kenny to concede that it was time. Lilly would have NEVER come to that conclusion in time to stop Larry from becoming a walker - there just wasn't enough time to make that decision. Both Larry and Duck were taken care of in an appropriate manner and time frame - just before they became dangerous to anyone else, and when they were completely unaware of what was taking place. I think that both of them got a tragic, but merciful end, considering the circumstances and the reality of the post apocalyptic world (unlike poor Mark, or David the teacher, living out their last moments in pain and terror!).

Lilly would have become unhinged no matter how her Father met his death. She was incapable of moving on. Plenty of people witness far more traumatic events and deal with them in healthy ways (I would take Kenny's reactions to Duck and Katjaa's death to be WAY more healthy than Lilly's had been!).

[marcu5]

Insults unnecessary please! I don't bad mouth you on other threads, I would appreciate not being reduced to the butt of a joke in here simply because you disagree.:mad:

What about "immediate" threat do you not get? Were you also upset that you did not get to kill Irene the second you realized she was bit? Duck has to DIE first to become a walker - his bite was not an instantaneous death, and Larry was pretty much dead when he hit the floor(several EMT's have come on the forums to agree with this assessment!).

Besides, let's TRULY reverse the situations. Let's say that Duck had dropped unconscious right in front of us. He wasn't breathing, and CPR was not reviving him in a 2-3 minute period. Guess what? I would have suggested that we destroy Duck's brain (I think Lilly and Larry would have too, and would have given Kenny and Katjaa less of the benefit of the doubt than I did). If Larry had been bit by a Walker, I would have let Lilly stay with Larry until he was on the brink of death, just like Duck had been. I would have taken the time to convince her that it needed to be done if she was in denial. I would have then offered to take the shot to spare Lilly the trauma of having to kill her father. So now, where is the hypocrisy? As for Kenny, both he and Katjaa come to conclusion that Duck needs to be killed - in fact, it is Katjaa herself that gets Kenny to concede that it was time. Lilly would have NEVER come to that conclusion in time to stop Larry from becoming a walker - there just wasn't enough time to make that decision. Both Larry and Duck were taken care of in an appropriate manner and time frame - just before they became dangerous to anyone else, and when they were completely unaware of what was taking place. I think that both of them got a tragic, but merciful end, considering the circumstances and the reality of the post apocalyptic world (unlike poor Mark, or David the teacher, living out their last moments in pain and terror!).

Lilly would have become unhinged no matter how her Father met his death. She was incapable of moving on. Plenty of people witness far more traumatic events and deal with them in healthy ways (I would take Kenny's reactions to Duck and Katjaa's death to be WAY more healthy than Lilly's had been!).


you do realize duck kills everyone in the cargo hold in an alternative ending, right? he was most definitely an immediate threat. more so than larry in the meat locker.

like i've said before. all the group needed was a few seconds to confirm if larry would live or become a zombie. meanwhile, we know for 100% fact that duck will turn but he's in the RV while we sleep? i wouldn't give kenny crap if he killed duck immediately after finding out he was bitten. but he played it pretty loose with the group when it was his kid.

[Sisterofshane]

you do realize duck kills everyone in the cargo hold in an alternative ending, right? he was most definitely an immediate threat. more so than larry in the meat locker.

like i've said before. all the group needed was a few seconds to confirm if larry would live or become a zombie. meanwhile, we know for 100% fact that duck will turn but he's in the RV while we sleep? i wouldn't give kenny crap if he killed duck immediately after finding out he was bitten. but he played it pretty loose with the group when it was his kid.

Only if Lee does absolutely NOTHING. Besides, I never take much stock in any situation that ends in an immediate "game over, rewind". It means that it was really never meant to happen that way (because really, who just stops playing instead of reloading and trying again?).

And no, a few extra seconds of CPR would not have brought Larry back from death. Also, we know from experience that a single walker bite does not immediately kill, and Kenny and Katjaa do the right thing by telling Lee that he had been bit. And in the end, they both come to the conclusion that Duck should be killed. I certainly don't think they played any more "loose" than Lilly did in the meat locker when it was becoming almost absolutely certain that her CPR was not bringing back her Dad.

[NessaT]

Love when I'm being called out by name... LOL! I said I was done here but I guess I'm back by popular demand!


Man, was there a fallout that I didn't see? Don't know why the hate, but from me, I think you're alright.

In any case, while I may be an initial supporter of Lilly, I have since emphatized with Kenny after Episode 3.

Despite all his flaws and shortcomings, he has only been doing what is best for his family. Lilly snapped when her dad died and murdered someone. Kenny didn't. So, more respect to the man. He's an asshole at times, but in Episode 3, I feel for him.

[YamiRaziel]

Love when I'm being called out by name... LOL! I said I was done here but I guess I'm back by popular demand!

"Kenny destroyed this group". Personally, I think Lilly could shoulder part of the blame on this one as well. The situation that we had was two VERY strong personalities, each with a different plan, butting heads on every issue. I think Kenny had every right to be upset with her, because it was ultimately her selfishness regarding her father (and the need for his medicine) that kept them at the motor inn much longer than they should have been. Would she ever have suggested that they stay in the face of starvation if it wasn't for the pharmacy? I don't think so. Personally, I think Kenny was right that we needed to at least CONSIDER leaving the motor inn. Had we left BEFORE we started to become desperate for food, we would not have ever made it to the St. John's meat locker and Larry would (probably) not be dead now, would he? :D


"He was very quick to eliminate the threat but when it came to Duck HE SHOWED HIS TRUE COLOURS." What we are talking about here are two VERY different situations. Duck being bitten did not make him an immediate threat to everyone's safety. Irene had been bitten - she was VERY sick. But I think everyone would agree that she didn't need to be killed IMMEDIATELY. Back in the drug store, many people argued that Duck did not need to be immediately killed as Larry was suggesting (many people here have said the same thing, you yourself, Yami, didn't change your mind until Kenny ticked you off, and you went back through to retroactively change your decisions!). Even as you sit, ready to pull the trigger, you can realize that Duck is of actually little threat to the rest of the group. I've said it before - if I had the TIME to let Lilly grieve, I would have. The difference is that, in Larry's situation, there would have NEVER been enough time to grieve and let her make the decision. Katjaa and Kenny had much more time to reflect and say goodbye, and you CAN convince Kenny that it needs to happen. (I don't think that Lilly would have ever come to terms with the fact that Larry was as good as dead).

"It was sad to see Lily snap like that but I guess everybody pushed her." Nobody more so than her father. Let me explain - Lilly had a HUGE dependency on her father. I think a lot of what she did was to gain his approval (just look at the way she beams when Larry talks about her having "more balls"). In the end, though, he never let her BE HER OWN PERSON. If she ever said something contrary to what he wanted, he would just shout over her. He always pushed the "Us vs. them" mentality, even when it was clearly doing more harm than good. He made it impossible for her to compromise on issues, or maybe even see the issues clearly (his heart condition was more important to her than finding food, for example). He pretty much set her up to fail in the event of his death. Speaking as a mother, the single MOST important factor to me, in raising my child, is for her to be able to LIVE ON without me. I want her to be strong and independent, and to have a good life not handicapped by the need to have me around. Losing a parent is something that she must be able to live through, no matter how sudden, terrible, or traumatic my death may be. Lilly was INCAPABLE of moving on. Yes, we should feel bad for her and empathize with her, but the scene in the meat locker is only one small FRACTION to use to blame.

"In the end she stood for Ben who she hardly knew and once again ignored a very bad situation where our entire group almost got obliterated." I believe Carley/Doug were in the right here. Lilly has her suspicions, but never goes beyond "He's the new Guy!" in her argument. She then supercedes the wishes and authority of everyone else in the group (let's be honest - it is NOT healthy to give one person the power to decide who lives and who dies - I think that is the heart of the argument behind why everyone is so mad at Kenny after the meat locker, no?) by trying to kill Ben. To be frank, what Ben did was wrong, but did it DESERVE death? Kenny and Katjaa were about the only one's with the right to decide Ben's fate, with his actions being more or less responsible for the death of their son. To frame the argument in a different way, should Lee be held responsible for mark and Larry's death if he suggested that they should go to the dairy? If he should, did the group then have the obligation to KILL Lee for his complicity (either direct or indirect) in these deaths?

LOL - WOW that is long! I guess tldr; I disagree with you Yami:p! I think I'll leave it at that for tonight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPHR5FMWh2s - second 0:15 (minimal TDKR spoiler, it's a repetition of the lines in the movie).

I'm glad to see you back sisterofshane, hope you stick around. Now let's get to work!

Regarding your first paragraph I would see that Kenny did not have any right to be upset with her. If he was to blame for thinking about her, what do we say about him? She cared about her father, her cared about his family, Lee cared about Clem. Everybody had a lot to lose and yes I agree that it was difficult to starve but shooting in the blind... that's not always the option. They could've turned out worse. Let's not also forget the fact that Kenny somehow made it look as if the RV was his own and not the group's. How could anyone know that Kenny wouldn't throw you out if something bad happens and he needs to choose between his family and you. He had already shown that there is no limit to the dangers he is willing to impose on the group if his family is on the line. I personally wouldn't have been comfortable leaving with any of those people.
Also we did consider leaving, but my Lee sided with Lilly and thus began the endless tirade of "You never agree with me. You have to back me up on this, Lee" :p

Now you're wrong about Duck. When he was bitten he could've died and turned any minute. Nobody knew for sure. There was even a situation where the only people around Duck were Clem, Katjaa and Ben. Do we really think that Ben could've protect them. He would probably panic and let them die.
I don't know if you've seen this clip, but if you do not make Kenny stop the train this is what happens - go to 2:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0_E9v68mKcNow I'm sure that his is put there for a reason. It illustrates how dangerous Duck was! It was unnecessary threat that that we all accepted. I accepted it as well and told them to take their time. Now that's something Kenny would never do.
About Duck in the drugstore and did give him the benefit of the doubt and later in ep 3 I did give Katjaa time to say goodbye. It was dangerous but after what Kenny did to Lilly I understood it was necessary. Better risk someone being bitten than deprive them of the chance to say goodbye.
Kenny did that with Lilly and we saw how that turned out. Even after episode 3 I would still say that what Kenny did cost this group everything. He should've let us finish the CPR because unlike Duck, Larry had a chance, no matter how small it was. Remember what Glenn said in episode 1, we need to have hope else what's the difference.
In my opinion if Kenny fucked up in episode 2, he did it twice worse in ep. 3. First of all, instead of trying to apologize to Lilly and explain her that what he had to do was necessary and his family needed him and they were in a confined space, what does he do? He start blaming my Lee for not letting that poor girl at ep. 3 suffer. Once again he tries to justify his diminishing humanity and he's the only one to look at it that way! Not Carley/Doug, not Katjaa, nobody! If you didn't kill her, he's even worse! He's proud of what Lee did, he brags about it. "You know what happened today? Our Lee, did the right thing today, he let a girl get eaten today so we can loot the place.!"
Do you seriously still justify his behaviour? I know that apparently you're a fan of Shane but... at least Shane has the decency not to brag about what he did to Otis.
So instead of trying to make peace with Lilly, because this group needs her whether he realizes it or not, he's constantly pushing her.
When the bandits attacked it was Lilly that came back. She didn't have to, but she did it. How did Kenny respond to that "Leave the bitch behind, there's no time! C'mon, Lee, leave Lilly and go" .
In my eyes this is too much betrayal from your own group. If this happened to me I would not care about those people at all.

Now about the Carley/Doug situation. Lilly already felt betrayed far too many times. She's the one steal dealing with the organization shit and here I can give credit to Kenny and Lee for risking their skins and going hunting. Still it's even more apparent than in ep.2 that she's the leader that deals with the hard stuff. Everybody's voicing their complains but nobody wants to do the hard stuff. I must say I was really surprised to see her doing that in ep.3. I thought she would've given up and somebody else would step in. I guess I was wrong to think that Carley or Katjaa would volunteer to take such responsibility. Katjaa is busy looking if Duck is not gonna kill himself and calming that Kenny. Even his wife realized that his husband is changing for the worse. Seriously, sisterofshane, how can you still defent him? ;):p
Now, Carley! The most useless character in the camp. I thought she would develop somehow but nah... Her being a good shot is a skill usually taken for granted in TWD. Most people are able to shoot guys because they have to. Besides that she doesn't do anything. She never takes a side, she never does anything. If you have Doug in the game, he'll be fixing the wall. If you have Carley... she will be standing on the balcony looking at the sunset.... Even to me and I liked her until she died, she look suspicious.
In the scene where Lilly tries to convince us it was her I was almost positive it got to be her. It was either her or Ben. It couldn't have been the kids and Katjaa and Kenny had too much to lose. I couldn't have been Lilly because she brought it to my attention. It was either Ben or Carley.
If it was Ben, then Carley should've said it wasn't her and it must've been Ben. Apparently I underestimated her willingness to appear the good girl in everybody's eyes. She knew it had to be Ben, yet she defended him in order to make Lilly the bad one. I was pretty pissed that there was a traitor amongst us. It cost us our home and supplies, everything SOME of us had been working really hard to built and it almost got us killed! I wouldn't have killed the traitor, but I would've thrown him out! To me trust is the most important thing in a situation like this one. Someone betrayed it and had to be punished. If Carley had done the right thing at least once in her short life expectancy maybe both Ben and her would be alive. Ben would admit it was him and maybe, we would be able to forgive him, although Kenny probably wouldn't (Duck was the victim of that betrayal).
So what did Carley do? She decided to remain the good gal and started talking back to Lilly. If the battery situation wasn't enough to convince me she was a not very smart, this definitely did. The worst thing in that situation was to start talking back directly at Lilly. She should've turned to Lee for support and as Lee is the only person Lilly trusts (in my game at least) she might've calmed down. So Carley bit the dust... I was shocked I admit! And I felt bad... for Lilly. I knew this would finish her and would most likely set us apart. She tried really hard to provide life for all of us, to form a sort of working group and some people never stopped betraying her. She knew that my Lee was disappointed with what she had done because my Lee always tried to do his best to help people. He wouldn't tolerate a murder and even if he did understand her motives and forgive her, she wouldn't forgive herself for betraying the only person that didn't betray her. As I see it betrayal and trust are key themes in my Lilly-Lee relationship. That's why she asked me to run away with her even if she didn't plan to let me go. She wanted to know if Lee could forgive her. If he could, maybe one day she could forgive herself too.
As Kiel555 beautifully said it in another thread, "Regardless, she reconsidered her choice and left without us. It's okay, she left knowing that Lee and Clem cared for her and would rather be with her than with Kenny. That's a good story and a good end to that chapter."

I cannot agree that only Kenny and Katjaa had the right to be angry at the traitor. Everybody lost their homes, their hope and everything they've tried to built for the past week/months. Everybody almost died back there.

Okay, this became a rather long post so this will be for now, we join in later tonight or tomorrow!

[Xarne]

*Wall of Text hits you for 1,000,000 points*
You Die. Restart <Y/N>

[YamiRaziel]

*Wall of Text hits you for 1,000,000 points*
You Die. Restart <Y/N>

Hahaha!
NessaT, I think you got it wrong! I was anticipating sisterofshane's return I'm not hating her because of her opinion.
The reason why she was so popular in demand is that she is not easily convinced, defends her opinion and I know/hope that she will read my wall of text. :p It's not easy to form a good discussion nowadays when most people never return after one argument.

P.S Sisterofshane, I think we brought the forum down with our posts :D

[LoneSpektre]

I sided with Kenny all the time until the meat locker scene with Larry. Now the guys a big dick and basically left me to die under the door with those walkers. It made me change my view on him. I agreed to leave with Lilly and get Clem but she took off in the RV :( (Had a feeling about that).

[Zombies are Awesome!]

Kenny is awesome!

[Wrighty]

Dat wall....

To pick out one point though, sure Carely was angry and talked back to Lilly, because she was torturing and bullying Ben, she is not the kind of person to sit and watch that happen. Lilly was trying to have him lynched with no proof. I personally was proud of her when she defended Ben, even if it led to her death.

Still think the Duck situation is different for reasons posted before. And I can't be bothered bashing Lilly ATM.

[Xarne]

Dat wall....

To pick out one point though, sure Carely was angry and talked back to Lilly, because she was torturing and bullying Ben, she is not the kind of person to sit and watch that happen. Lilly was trying to have him lynched with no proof. I personally was proud of her when she defended Ben, even if it led to her death.

Still think the Duck situation is different for reasons posted before. And I can't be bothered bashing Lilly ATM.

In all honesty, it didnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out. You have history with everyone in there and can pretty much speak on all their behalves except for one. That dirty rat, its the lying and putting the entire group in danger that makes me hate him so much.

[Wrighty]

In all honesty, it didnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out. You have history with everyone in there and can pretty much speak on all their behalves except for one. That dirty rat, its the lying and putting the entire group in danger that makes me hate him so much.

But there's still no proof? Are you really just going to execute a guy because you think he did it? No good reason it couldn't have been someone else making a deal. Not that I think he deserves to die for a stupid mistake.

[Sisterofshane]

Kenny is awesome!
Zombie Kenny is Incredibly Awesome? (Lol, saw your user name, your post, and thought of giving Duck a high-5, I just couldn't resist!)


"She cared about her father, her cared about his family, Lee cared about Clem. Everybody had a lot to lose and yes I agree that it was difficult to starve but shooting in the blind... that's not always the option." I think this is argument that got Lilly/Kenny in trouble in the first place, but in my opinion, having access to drug's doesn't matter if you're STARVING to death. I think this would be especially true for Larry - not eating would be very detrimental to a person with a heart condition. Leaving was just not an option in Lilly's mind, however. If the St. John's had never shown up, how long would she have wanted to stay at the motor inn? I believe that she had already pushed it to the brink. To be perfectly fair though, I think this was a short-coming of the group Dynamic in general. Mark, Doug/Carley and Lee (Lee especially!) needed to wrestle a bit of the authoritarian control from both Lilly and Kenny. Lilly should not have had to be the only one to make the unpopular decisions (who gets fed for the day) - Kenny should not have been the only one to question truly bad decisions (staying at the motor inn in the face of starvation). The group is MORE than willing to override Lee when he makes an unpopular choice, the same should hold true for Lilly and Kenny.

"I don't know if you've seen this clip, but if you do not make Kenny stop the train this is what happens - go to 2:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0_E9v68mKcNow I'm sure that his is put there for a reason." I already pointed this out to marcu5, but I don't put much stock in any choice that results in an automatic game over. I think the reason tell tale has for FORCING you to take action was to drive the story forward. That doesn't necessarily mean that Duck became dangerous the second he was bitten by the Walker. Dying from an infection and dying from a heart attack are two very different things. I still believe that Larry was much more dangerous Duck was at any given moment in their respective situations. I also told marcu5 this - if the situations were reversed (Duck had heart failure and Larry had been bitten) I would have reacted the same way to the situations, it has nothing to do with any bias toward the people who are in those situations.

Now for the Drug store situation, I don't know what he said if you chose not to shoot the girl - because I shot her. I will play again to see how it turns out to leave her alive. As for the situation with the bandits, I think Lily put us in more danger. I had convinced the bandits to back off in exchange for twice what they were getting before - if it had been me, I would have given them what they wanted, and THEN gotten the heck out of dodge. At least there would have been time to gather what was left as opposed to scrambling under fire leaving EVERYTHING behind. Not to mention the gun shots are what attracted the walkers who overrun the motor inn and bite Duck in the first place. As far as my game, Kenny never says that about her. He says something far more neutral - "We have to go now!" I don't really know what she was doing up there after the initial shot, anyway. I seem to recall taking out the bandits and walkers myself to give the group cover to get to the RV.

"She's the one steal dealing with the organization shit and here I can give credit to Kenny and Lee for risking their skins and going hunting. Still it's even more apparent than in ep.2 that she's the leader that deals with the hard stuff." Are you so sure this is a situation with everyone else refusing to take over, or with Lilly refusing to let go of control? The feeling I got from everyone in the camp was that they were afraid of stepping on Lilly's toes, or that they were afraid that she was going to snap. The feeling I get from Lilly is that she doesn't trust ANYONE anymore, while foisting her responsibilities off onto others so she can sulk in her room (she literally becomes a "back seat" leader, where as she used to have a very active role in the group). I can understand your feeling toward Carley, but I had Doug. Doug is the one who sets up the alarm system - he is the one that comes back for me at the St. John's farm and saves my life when Andy had a gun pointed at me. He also does repair work on the wall. On top of all this, Doug was my friend and supporter. And he dies because Lilly snaps and plays vigilante. Of all the things to hate on, we shouldn't hate on the Doug/Carley decision to save Ben's life - it is clear to me and everyone else that Lilly crossed the line when she pulled her gun out. I PERSONALLY think she crossed the line when she tried to turn the situation into a witch hunt while everyone was still incredibly tense from the escape.

As far as losing their home, one can argue that Ben helped in delaying that inevitable future by placating the bandits. Everyone comments on how "quiet" it had been at the motor inn following the initial altercation. Somehow I think that, without Ben's deal, the bandits would have been far more aggressive toward the group. Seeing as how they benefited from us being able to get supplies (they get a "cut" from Ben, and don't have to risk their lives to walkers by foraging in town), they left us alone. The attack would have happened sooner or later. In my opinion, I would have started planning to leave as soon as I saw Jolene's video. She was personally responsible for diverting the attention from our camp. With her and the St. John's gone, we should have realized that we would have been the next target, and the motor inn was not as safe as it we thought it was.


I doubt anybody else reads these YamiRaziel, but I appreciate that you do!:)

[Master of Aeons]

I knew if we said her name three times, she'd return! This is just like that time with Biggie Smalls.

[Zombies are Awesome!]

Zombie Kenny is Incredibly Awesome? (Lol, saw your user name, your post, and thought of giving Duck a high-5, I just couldn't resist!)


lol thats good :D

[YamiRaziel]

Mark, Doug/Carley and Lee (Lee especially!) needed to wrestle a bit of the authoritarian control from both Lilly and Kenny. Lilly should not have had to be the only one to make the unpopular decisions (who gets fed for the day) - Kenny should not have been the only one to question truly bad decisions (staying at the motor inn in the face of starvation)

Always a pleasure, Sisterofshane.

As I read what happened in your playthrough, I must say mine felt absolutely different.

I agree that to maintain balance Doug/Carley, Mark and Lee should've been more active. At some points it felt as if they didn't care enough. I cannot agree about the bad decision however. When I played ep 2 it didn't feel bad to me. Yeah they were starving but leaving home would've most probably been worse. At this point organizations are being formed like bandit groups and Negan (dunno if it means anything to you. If you haven't read the comic book, DON'T google it). Meaning armed groups are already fighting for territory and supplies. Leaving the only shelter that is at least protected by walkers still feels like a bad idea. In my opinion they should've sent a recon party and try recruiting more people. It seems illogical to recruit people when you're starving but you can't go hunting/looting if there are no people to defend the camp. In the beginning of ep.2 I wouldn't have left the motor inn. They had easy access to meds and shelter. Not having to worry while you sleep is a luxury in this world and everybody needs meds, not only Larry but the kids as well. I never really considered leaving an option. Plus as I said, Kenny was so attached to that RV that it never felt as the groups RV mostly his own. Ironically Lilly stole it :D

Now, about the video I posted. I cannot agree that it is not important. There was no fighting sequence or anything, so this is not just a death scene that can be ignored. To be honest I didn't even see it in my playthrough. I found out about it in this forum and my interpretation is that it is put there in order to show those that are more curiously how seriously the Duck thread is. There was no need for players to be force, cause most of them never saw that scene anyway. In my opinion Duck could've died and turned in a matter of minute and it was a danger that had to be considered. Not to mention that Lee was running around most of the time and Kenny wasn't there either. Katjaa, Ben and Clem could've probably died (as it is showed in the video) if Duck had turned. It was dangerous and I endured it just to show Kenny that no everyone is like him :p I was sending him a message! I also felt bad for Katjaa, too, I admit!

As for the situation with the bandits, I think Lily put us in more danger.
Oh, c'mon, don't pin that on Lilly. She did act in the best favour of everybody. She couldn't have heard you, so she taught them a lesson. I was glad to see her come to the rescue after all the bad treatment she received from Kenny. He is indeed an ass in my playthrough. He did ask me to leave her behind "Screw her, Lee. Let her stay!"
It was dangerous and intense moment and I wanted to find the traitor as well. Had Ben admitted it was him, Carley could've been alive. He did not and I do not tolerate betrayals. I looked in some people's video and I saw that if Doug is alive, he fixes the fence. That's really cool, I like Doug. Do you know what Carley does? She stays on the balcony, watching the sunset and waiting for Lee to come upstairs. Then out of the blue instead of helping identify the traitor she starts protecting somebody that must've obviously been guilty. There wasn't anybody else. Not to mention that Ben was on watch so how did exactly those bandits put all our camp on their knees?
However, when she started defending him and accusing Lilly for a moment I thought she was trying to flirt with Lee just to fool me. I thought it was really, really stupid to push Lilly even further. She was never really bright I guess.
I don't really have problem with Lilly blowing her brains out. The group was already rotten and dying in my eyes. Carley really annoyed me with her I'm the good "little, but don't call me that" attitude. I've never really been fond of meek people, as well those that try too hard to be liked. I guess I've always had a thing for strong characters. Lilly was right that the list of people she could trust got shorter every day. I could say the same applied for my Lee. . Lilly and Clem was the only two people I really cared for. Even though Lilly left us I knew why she had to do this. Although.. Duck did grow on me by appointing me for Batman, I give him that!

Now, as for Ben I would say that he screwed up BIG TIME. If he was indeed so worried for his friend, wouldn't it be only natural to ask for my help. In our camp I was the only guy that went to everybody's rescue! What could've he done on his own? Had he done that we could've think of a way to trick the bandits and not only eliminate them but steal their supplies as well.

Sisterofshane, I'm gonna stop here for now cause I'm really tired and I can feel how my thoughts become harder to express in words and literally more detached by the minute.
Thanks for reading my huge chunks of text as well. I appreciate it too ;)

[bakajin]

I don't see the need for analyzing Carley's motivations for her behavior at Lily's inquisition. Lily's in the books, a canon character that lives to shoot zombies another day. A character Lee's grown close too needs to die so that we have that emotional experience the publishers want us to have. Carley/Doug was going to die no matter what, that was apparent from the jump. If anything was priming us for that it is the screen shot for Chapter 1, with Lee and Carley looking on at Clem with worry.

But we deal with what's given. I agree w/ sisterofshane, that Ben's deal helped delay the attack, but if you take that to its logical conclusion, they would never have attacked. Even after the supplies ran out, they would have just moved on, unless the bandits turned into cannibals or something.

RE: Carley, the "battery situation" says nothing about her intelligence. We are to assume since she's a paid journalist she at least has a four year degree from some college. I think that was supposed to endear her to us.

But it was all false drama. There's an opportunity for us to draw an inference, through Lee's questioning of Ben that Ben was the guy. Lee didn't have the balls to move on that? Also, why didn't the bandits out Ben when they had the chance? They were there for payback. Why didn't Ben just turn up dead?

[Wrighty]

I seriously don't understand the whole "Ben was obviously guilty so it's okay"
It's not okay, Lilly's argument was "DURR, he's new" and "HURR, I don't know her parents/always wants to know what we do" Hardly a good reason to kill someone. And Carley would not just stand by to watch Ben get
killed, she is a forceful and good person, she just didn't jam her opinion down our throats.

[YamiRaziel]

If everyone took this seriously instead of delaying it, I doubt she would've shot anybody. The situation was that there was a traitor that needed to be dealt with immediately. It was either Carley or Ben. Instead of everybody pulling their efforts to find out who it was, they acted as nothing happened. You do realize that this traitor almost got everybody killed? I myself would be pretty worked-up about something like that, dunno how you would react. Lilly was indeed a bit too overwhelmed with anger and having Ben/Carley not cooperate plus Lee, Doug and Kenny being a bit passive, I guess it really was the tip of the iceberg for her.

[Cyreen]

Lilly was indeed a bit too overwhelmed with anger and having Ben/Carley not cooperate plus Lee, Doug and Kenny being a bit passive, I guess it really was the tip of the iceberg for her.

Only because she finally understood that circumstances were beyond her control and pulling the trigger was her last impulsive ditch effort at enforcing her will.

[YamiRaziel]

Only because she finally understood that circumstances were beyond her control and pulling the trigger was her last impulsive ditch effort at enforcing her will.

What would you have done? Let's imagine Lilly didn't kill Carley/ Doug. How would you have known who was the traitor?

[Cyreen]

Patience and time. Guilt was already eating at the kid; it was Duck and Katjaa's deaths that pushed him to confess. In fact, he would have confessed immediately ("I'm sorry") if Lilly hadn't started yelling. Scaring him shitless obviously wasn't working and they had other things to worry about.

[YamiRaziel]

Patience and time. Guilt was already eating at the kid; it was Duck and Katjaa's deaths that pushed him to confess. In fact, he would have confessed immediately ("I'm sorry") if Lilly hadn't started yelling. Scaring him shitless obviously wasn't working and they had other things to worry about.

You're kinda saying that because you know what happens. They couldn't have known if the traitor meant ill or not. Plus let's remember who were the two characters that were left at the motor inn during the events of ep.2? Carley and Ben! They could've been planning this for a long time, so why would you wait? So they can betray you again or worse?

[Cyreen]

What are they going to do? Mutiny? Take over the RV? Oh wait...

The kid's first words inside the RV were "I'm sorry" and then Lily started yelling and he turtled.

[Masta23]

Well on my 2nd playthrough I felt kinda bad, when I made kenny shoot his son I'm generally trying to be a jerk, on this playthrough, but when Lee shouted "DO IT" it felt wrong.

[Rock114]

It was almost a confession when Ben screamed "I'm sorry!" on the RV and began bargaining with Lilly. Lilly grills Ben solo when Doug is with you, but she immediately turns to Carley if she is there. Why? Because Lilly didn't like her. That is apparent from the meeting in the drug store where Lilly freaks out on Carley for saving you outside. Lilly was basing her accusations on who she hated, but also taking into account who she could get away with blaming. As much as she probably wanted Kenny gone, she knew she couldn't get away with that because Kenny stood to lose too much if it were him stealing and not someone else.

She flat out says to Ben when the RV stops "You have until that walker is dealt with to tell me it was Carley!" I believe she was trying to frame Carley because not only did they hate each other, Carley doesn't want her in charge. Carley would have been the easiest (or second easiest) because she doesn't have attatchments like Lee and Clem, or Kenny and his family. The only person who sticks up for Carley is Lee, and Ben to an extent but his defense is pretty weak. I think that after losing the motor inn, she couldn't keep her rage down any longer and wanted to take her wrath out on someone she could get away with, like Carley or Ben. Doug stays neutral through almost the entire game, so she couldn't come down on him without immediately looking like the bad guy (which she was, depending on your point of view)

tl;dr Lilly only accused the people she hated and could get away with because her stress finally got to her and she had no real power in the group anymore.

[YamiRaziel]

Even as compassionately as I play this game I think that sometimes the time is ripe for action. I couldn't care less for the way the kid or Carley felt cause one of them almost got us killed. The one who was innocent should've spoken up, there was no reason for her/him to be afraid. To me this looked as one of the many cheap tricks people will do to fool you. This is a cruel world now, if you're too weak to withstand Lilly's interrogation, how are you going to survive out there? You know the point of interrogation is to scare you enough so you can give the information you hold, not feel good about it.
Did somebody have to die for you to realize that the bandit attack was a serious situation?

Rock114, or maybe... just maybe, she wanted to find out who the traitor was? It was either Carley or Ben, she didn't blame the others because it was obvious it wasn't them. It's not like there were 20 people in that RV. I don't think that this has to do anything with hate or some sort of long planning as you somehow make it sound. You know when you're wondering who's the traitor - the sissy Ben or the cute little Carley, it kinda raises your suspicion when all of us sudden the cute little Carley starts talking back pretending to be very tough.
It makes much more sense for her to be dealing with the bandits than Ben.

[Acadias]

I actually don't want to lose Kenny until near the end of episode 5 without him it would be pretty lonely everyone else is a stranger hes the last besides Clem and Lee from the original group. I'd feel pretty bad if I lost him as well

[Sisterofshane]

I don't see the need for analyzing Carley's motivations for her behavior at Lily's inquisition. Lily's in the books, a canon character that lives to shoot zombies another day. A character Lee's grown close too needs to die so that we have that emotional experience the publishers want us to have. Carley/Doug was going to die no matter what, that was apparent from the jump. If anything was priming us for that it is the screen shot for Chapter 1, with Lee and Carley looking on at Clem with worry.

But we deal with what's given. I agree w/ sisterofshane, that Ben's deal helped delay the attack, but if you take that to its logical conclusion, they would never have attacked. Even after the supplies ran out, they would have just moved on, unless the bandits turned into cannibals or something.

RE: Carley, the "battery situation" says nothing about her intelligence. We are to assume since she's a paid journalist she at least has a four year degree from some college. I think that was supposed to endear her to us.

But it was all false drama. There's an opportunity for us to draw an inference, through Lee's questioning of Ben that Ben was the guy. Lee didn't have the balls to move on that? Also, why didn't the bandits out Ben when they had the chance? They were there for payback. Why didn't Ben just turn up dead?

One problem with this line - they were attacking. And they stopped. In my game, Doug blatantly states this fact, and Lee can comment on it if you investigate the outside wall just before you find the grate. Ben's deal had LITERALLY stopped the attacks.

[Googolplexbyte]

Never really liked Kenny or Lilly but there wasn't really a neither choice most of the time. I wish I could've just left with Glenn because he was awesome.

[Redundant]

One problem with this line - they were attacking. And they stopped. In my game, Doug blatantly states this fact, and Lee can comment on it if you investigate the outside wall just before you find the grate. Ben's deal had LITERALLY stopped the attacks.

See I thought that was a much better angle to go with for the reason behind the stealing. In ben's backwards kind of way he though by giving the bandits smalls supplies here and there he could keep them away from the group and thus keep them safe. If they went with this I would've had more respect for him, rather than "They said they had one of my class mates."

[bakajin]

It would have beggared belief to have Ben cook up such a plan to save the group from being slaughtered.

@sisterofshane: Should probably clarify that to mean they never would have attacked after the deal was on. It makes no sense not to benefit from their deal, nor to waste resources on going after them when they were bleeding them slowly. Makes even less sense to attack when they have nothing to gain from it. What are they worried about their rep on the streets?

[Rock114]

Even as compassionately as I play this game I think that sometimes the time is ripe for action. I couldn't care less for the way the kid or Carley felt cause one of them almost got us killed. The one who was innocent should've spoken up, there was no reason for her/him to be afraid. To me this looked as one of the many cheap tricks people will do to fool you. This is a cruel world now, if you're too weak to withstand Lilly's interrogation, how are you going to survive out there? You know the point of interrogation is to scare you enough so you can give the information you hold, not feel good about it.
Did somebody have to die for you to realize that the bandit attack was a serious situation?

Rock114, or maybe... just maybe, she wanted to find out who the traitor was? It was either Carley or Ben, she didn't blame the others because it was obvious it wasn't them. It's not like there were 20 people in that RV. I don't think that this has to do anything with hate or some sort of long planning as you somehow make it sound. You know when you're wondering who's the traitor - the sissy Ben or the cute little Carley, it kinda raises your suspicion when all of us sudden the cute little Carley starts talking back pretending to be very tough.
It makes much more sense for her to be dealing with the bandits than Ben.

Probably, I just say what's on my mind. But she and carley did hate each other, which is why she aimed directly at Carley while Doug pulled himself into her line of fire. I just can't see Carley dealing with the bandits, and I do think Lilly's prior feelings toward Carley had something to do with her blaming her first.

[Cyreen]

Considering it was Kenny that was pushing to leave, wouldn't he be the first suspect? He could have been squirreling supplies for his eminent departure, while making their situation appear more bleak, thereby forcing departure. Neither Ben nor Carly were the most likely suspects. Lilly herself, in an effort to rid herself of threats and reinstate control over the group, was a better suspect than either Ben or Carley.

[Sisterofshane]

Considering it was Kenny that was pushing to leave, wouldn't he be the first suspect? He could have been squirreling supplies for his eminent departure, while making their situation appear more bleak, thereby forcing departure. Neither Ben nor Carly were the most likely suspects. Lilly herself, in an effort to rid herself of threats and reinstate control over the group, was a better suspect than either Ben or Carley.

Totally, right? I seriously thought that she was going to go after Lee, and that would be the consequence of having sided with Kenny in the meat locker. I mean, think about it. You have an individual that you KNOW is a convicted murderer. You give him your "lead" (broken flashlight), warning him that if he comes up empty that you will just assume that he did it. Magically, he comes up with the missing meds, and (in my playthrough, at least) is unwilling to place the blame on anyone. Oh yeah, and this person never got along with your Dad and held you back while someone else dropped a salt lick on his head. Pretty sure if I was Lilly, I would have thought anybody BUT Carley/Doug or Ben. But no, Lilly, let's blame Ben, and accuse him of being a plant from the bandits! They staged an elaborate scene in the woods in which two out of three of them DIED just to put a mole in our ranks so that they could get access to our med supply!

[YamiRaziel]

Considering it was Kenny that was pushing to leave, wouldn't he be the first suspect? He could have been squirreling supplies for his eminent departure, while making their situation appear more bleak, thereby forcing departure. Neither Ben nor Carly were the most likely suspects. Lilly herself, in an effort to rid herself of threats and reinstate control over the group, was a better suspect than either Ben or Carley.

How come? So she's a suspect but she tells Lee to investigate? I've always trusted Lilly with my life, so I knew it wasn't her. Kenny, he was the one to complain we risked our necks for food and supplies. He had a son and wife to take care. I didn't think it was him, there was just no sense in that.
That left me with Carley and Ben. As I said at first Ben appeared too scared and stupid, while the sudden Carley defensive reaction kinda changed my perception of her. It all started looking kinda shady because Lilly was right. She never talked about her past, she never participated in any major decisions and she always kept the good little girl appearance. For a moment I was like... has this girl been trying to flirt with me just to fool me. I was stricken that it was her.
In the end of course it turns out it wasn't but Lilly's theory was sound. Of course, it also came to who I was trusting more Lilly or Carley. I suspected that Telltale might force me to choose between those to, so obviously I went with Lilly. She might be a bit on the edge, but I knew she had our well-being at heart... and all of a sudden I wasn't sure of Carley at all.
I kinda believe it would've been cooler of it if then went with Carley as a traitor instead of Ben. It would've been like a wet slap to all her fans who were attracted by her cuteness. Instead they went with "Let's leave Carley as useless as it is".
To me it kinda looked like Carley thought she was save just because she was flirting with Lee.

Sisterofshane, you have the option "it was me". If you say it, Lilly states that even thought you though you've done bad things she knows it can't be you because you have Clem in your life now. I guess you're being protective of Clem as I am right?
I guess in everybody's saves it just feels completely different, although the sequence is basically the same.

[Cyreen]

How come? So she's a suspect but she tells Lee to investigate? I've always trusted Lilly with my life, so I knew it wasn't her.

It's kind of hard to argue with blind faith, regardless of subject. The bandits would have had to make initial contact with whomever they were making a deal with, which really should have made it less likely to be Ben as his absence would be questioned. Considering Lilly's lack of trust, how was that Ben accessed supplies in her custody?

It really doesn't matter whether you sided with Lilly or not in the meat locker, Lilly's attitude toward Lee during the investigation, interrogation and execution play out the same.

[YamiRaziel]

It's kind of hard to argue with blind faith, regardless of subject. The bandits would have had to make initial contact with whomever they were making a deal with, which really should have made it less likely to be Ben as his absence would be questioned. Considering Lilly's lack of trust, how was that Ben accessed supplies in her custody?

It really doesn't matter whether you sided with Lilly or not in the meat locker, Lilly's attitude toward Lee during the investigation, interrogation and execution play out the same.

That's not true. I've seen videos of different playthroughs than mine and it's not the same.
Plus let's remember who were the two characters that were left at the motor inn during the events of ep.2?
None of them is really taking sides in any important decisions. They seem most shady of all
I wouldn't call it blind faith, it's logic. In my playthrough I've never had any reason to suspect Lilly.
When there is a traitor you always go for the person you know the least, it's always that way.

[Cyreen]

That's not true. I've seen videos of different playthroughs than mine and it's not the same.

I've played both and there's one distinct line of dialogue difference when Kenny and Lilly are arguing and you choose the "stop this shit" option. Depending on who Lee helped in Ep. 2, Lee will say that person has valid concerns. That's it.

Plus let's remember who were the two characters that were left at the motor inn during the events of ep.2?

You mean the first day they learned the bandits existed, back when the bandits were still demanding food from the farm? Ben's first day with the group? I somehow don't see Carley, Ben and the bandits hashing out a master plan that day.

[YamiRaziel]

I've played both and there's one distinct line of dialogue difference when Kenny and Lilly are arguing and you choose the "stop this shit" option. Depending on who Lee helped in Ep. 2, Lee will say that person has valid concerns. That's it.



You mean the first day they learned the bandits existed, back when the bandits were still demanding food from the farm? Ben's first day with the group? I somehow don't see Carley, Ben and the bandits hashing out a master plan that day.

And why not? What if they've been attacked while all the rest were at the Saint Jones' farm? That could've been the terms for letting both of them live.
It's not that far-fetched.
My course of logic in those Lilly/Carley scenes were that it couldn't be Lilly, me nor Kenny and Katjaa. Kenny and Katjaa was far too focus on Duck to get involved in something like this, plus Kenny is a bit spineless in my opinion so he would totally ask for Lee's permission/approval/support if something like that happened. Lilly on the other hand was the one that started the hunt for the traitor so it couldn't have been her. She did not hate Carley or Ben so accusing them of being traitors when she was in fact the one... well that is far-fetched. If there was a person who Lilly hated, that was Kenny.
The fact that she didn't go for Kenny in that argument means to me that she didn't do it because of spite. She was indeed looking for the traitor and wanted to protect the group.

P.S It couldn't be Lee as well because as she said, he had to take care of Clem. I do agree that children change everything!

Sisterofshane, it's really funny that I consider the exact opposite to be the logical development of this situation

[Cyreen]

And why not? What if they've been attacked while all the rest were at the Saint Jones' farm? That could've been the terms for letting both of them live.
It's not that far-fetched.

Not plausible, the bandits were busy attacking the diary and shooting Mark.

My course of logic in those Lilly/Carley scenes were that it couldn't be Lilly, me nor Kenny and Katjaa. Kenny and Katjaa was far too focus on Duck to get involved in something like this, plus Kenny is a bit spineless in my opinion...

She did not hate Carley or Ben so accusing them of being traitors when she was in fact the one... well that is far-fetched. If there was a person who Lilly hated, that was Kenny...

If you consider Kenny too spineless, why would Ben be a suspect? It's much more likely that either Katjaa or Kenny were guilty because of Duck and wanting to protect him. Further, Lilly made it very clear she neither liked nor trusted either Ben or Carley. As for going after Kenny, that would have been too obvious.

[Rock114]

If not having a spine eliminates you from the running, the only people it could have been were Lilly, Lee, Kenny, Carley, or Doug. I didn't list Ben, because he doesn't meet that criteria. Carley has been nothing but loyal to the group, and isn't trying to play the "good girl" and stay on everyone's good side in my playthrough. She comes down on both Kenny and Lilly when you bring Ben back from the woods and says she won't be a part of it (which is a smart choice IMO, both Lilly and Kenny are a bit too bull-headed to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with them.) Doug too, loyalty all the way and prefers not to get involved.

Lilly is out of her mind when Ep3 begins, so it's likely not her either. It actually makes SENSE for her to blame Kenny or Lee. In my game, I held her back while Kenny dropped a 50lbs brick of salt on her Dad's head while she watched. Then I shoved a pitchfork into the first guy I saw outside of the meat locker, sent another person into the arms of a walker, and beat the final one within an inch of his life in front of the entire group. Yeah they were terrible people, but I was just as terrible for doing all that to them. I should have been suspect number one, but I didn't even make the list. Even with Clem in my life, I straight up murdered two people within hours of each other (I killed Jolene in the woods) in addition to being a convicted murderer before the world ended, so I'm fairly certain that stealing would be entirely possible for me in her mind.

She and Kenny have always been butting heads, and it's been known for weeks that Kenny wants to leave. It's an entirely plausible theory that he would be sneaking supplies into hidden nooks around the inn and leave in the middle of the night with his family. In fact, I'm extremely dissapointed that Lilly DIDN'T accuse me or Kenny. I'd love if she shot at me (or Kenny, if the player sided with her in the meat locker) and accidentally hit Carley/Doug as a result. That would have made the scene so much more tragic, and give Kenny haters another reason to hate him, or the player to blame themself.

[Kelium]

I actually don't want to lose Kenny until near the end of episode 5 without him it would be pretty lonely everyone else is a stranger hes the last besides Clem and Lee from the original group. I'd feel pretty bad if I lost him as well

Thats how I feel as well because on my play throughs I have sided with Kenny on pretty much everything. Tbh having him loose his whole family ruined his character, to me him and his family were a big chunk of the group and I genuinely cared about them and the friendship I had with them. Now its just Kenny who is emotionally ruined. Hopefully I *Lee* can help him recover somewhat and have my friend helping out again but I dont think he will ever get over loosing his family. Which is understandable.

[Zeruis]

What I want to happen in the beginning of episode 4:

Kenny: Lee, all that stuff that happened with us before, I'm through with it if you are.

[YamiRaziel]

If not having a spine eliminates you from the running, the only people it could have been were Lilly, Lee, Kenny, Carley, or Doug. I didn't list Ben, because he doesn't meet that criteria. Carley has been nothing but loyal to the group, and isn't trying to play the "good girl" and stay on everyone's good side in my playthrough. She comes down on both Kenny and Lilly when you bring Ben back from the woods and says she won't be a part of it (which is a smart choice IMO, both Lilly and Kenny are a bit too bull-headed to listen to anyone who doesn't agree with them.) Doug too, loyalty all the way and prefers not to get involved.

Lilly is out of her mind when Ep3 begins, so it's likely not her either. It actually makes SENSE for her to blame Kenny or Lee. In my game, I held her back while Kenny dropped a 50lbs brick of salt on her Dad's head while she watched. Then I shoved a pitchfork into the first guy I saw outside of the meat locker, sent another person into the arms of a walker, and beat the final one within an inch of his life in front of the entire group. Yeah they were terrible people, but I was just as terrible for doing all that to them. I should have been suspect number one, but I didn't even make the list. Even with Clem in my life, I straight up murdered two people within hours of each other (I killed Jolene in the woods) in addition to being a convicted murderer before the world ended, so I'm fairly certain that stealing would be entirely possible for me in her mind.

She and Kenny have always been butting heads, and it's been known for weeks that Kenny wants to leave. It's an entirely plausible theory that he would be sneaking supplies into hidden nooks around the inn and leave in the middle of the night with his family. In fact, I'm extremely dissapointed that Lilly DIDN'T accuse me or Kenny. I'd love if she shot at me (or Kenny, if the player sided with her in the meat locker) and accidentally hit Carley/Doug as a result. That would have made the scene so much more tragic, and give Kenny haters another reason to hate him, or the player to blame themself.

Well, I don't really know. My Lee being a suspect was out of the question. Plus it was obvious that the supplies weren't left outside so Kenny could leave, they were left for the bandits. Why would Kenny trade with them if he's going to run away? Plus, even Kenny wouldn't do that. Katjaa is there to calm him down of doing stupid things. My list was Ben and Carley, with Carley being #1. Her flirting with me just felt too convenient to be true. Well Lilly and I were wrong, obviously, and that makes me love this part even more. It adds more tragic. It shows how far my Lee and Lilly would go to protect the group.

[Cyreen]

Kenny and/or Katjaa could have been dealing with the bandits to protect their family. Katjaa would have had an advantage gaining access to medical supplies without suspicion.

[fenom]

I have to say, I enjoyed being Kenny's nemesis in my 2nd run.
Didn't sided with him once, didn't tried to save his kid once, calling him a murderer, making him kill his son. Anything I could do.

Honestly, after all that he should have killed himself right there after pulling the trigger on his son. All this time his motivation was supposed to be his precious family. So why is he still here?

If in ep4 I'm again in danger and he doesn't help me out, then I'm gonna say that he is a plain coward and that's why he didn't help me before, not because he was thinking about his family. If anything, since he didn't killed himself, he should be fearless and hungry to kill zombies that took away his son and as a side effect his wife.

No more always running to the car (truck, Rv, train, you have a contract to be the driver or something? eh? ) and letting us handle the zombies Kenny...
no more frozen moments - you could handle yourself bs Kenny...

[Wrighty]

Ugh all those angry because Kenny didn't save their lives. A lot of the time helping Lee is as dangerous as running into a burning building, maybe more so. Would you run into a burning building to save a guy you don't even like. Knowing that your family need you alive?

If you wouldn't, then you are a simple hypocrite.

[Rock114]

Well, I don't really know. My Lee being a suspect was out of the question. Plus it was obvious that the supplies weren't left outside so Kenny could leave, they were left for the bandits. Why would Kenny trade with them if he's going to run away? Plus, even Kenny wouldn't do that. Katjaa is there to calm him down of doing stupid things. My list was Ben and Carley, with Carley being #1. Her flirting with me just felt too convenient to be true. Well Lilly and I were wrong, obviously, and that makes me love this part even more. It adds more tragic. It shows how far my Lee and Lilly would go to protect the group.

Never once connected the flirting with trying to cover up the stolen supplies. I guess I wouldn't expect that from someone who has trouble with the basic concepts of batteries. She likes to solve her problems with guns. Kenny could easily have done it even with Katjaa, because he doesn't tell her everything he does. When I admitted my crime to her, she only wanted to know what Kenny really did inside the meat locker, so I told her. If she doesn't know he's stealing, she can't convince him to stop. He could have made a bargain with the bandits where he gives them supplies, and when they attack the motel they'll let him, Kat, and Duck go. A bit of a stretch, I know, but if Kenny thought that dealing with the bandits was a good way to help his family he very well might have done it.

It could have been anyone, even Lee may have just brought some supplies that HE stole to Lilly to put the suspicion on someone else. He obviously didn't, but how would Lilly know? The possibilites are endless, and very little short of a confession would have been concrete enough for everyone to say "Oh yeah, it was definately so-and-so." I can understand going for the new guy, but Carley was with us since this thing began! She came to our rescue at the dairy (despite not doing much, I admit) and after all the times she's put her life at risk to save someone elses it would take a great deal of evidence to convince me she would screw the group over like that. Shouldn't Lilly be able to see that too, if she's (supposedly) level-headed enough to eliminate everyone but those two from the suspect list?

[Cyreen]

Ugh all those angry because Kenny didn't save their lives.

I think the issue is that Kenny is more than happy to run into that burning building if you kiss his ass consistently, otherwise you're bacon.

[YamiRaziel]

I think the issues is that Kenny is more than happy to run into that burning building if you kiss his ass consistently, otherwise you're bacon.

Yeah, pretty much that's how it is.
Rock114, you make some good points man, but I was just stating the way I felt it the first time I played the episode. I mean.. in my opinion Carley went way to defensive about Ben and that somehow made her suspicious in my eyes. I mean I really wanted to find out the traitor and it felt like she didn't want to... so yeah I thought it was her until Ben confessed.

[Wrighty]

I think the issue is that Kenny is more than happy to run into that burning building if you kiss his ass consistently, otherwise you're bacon.

I didn't always agree with Kenny and he saved my life TWICE.

The first time in the shop, which happens even if you were about to kill Duck yourself. Yeah...

[Cyreen]

The first time in the shop, which happens even if you were about to kill Duck yourself. Yeah...

Yes, but we're in episode 3 now and things change.

Lilly's not much better considering people are only as valuable as their assets.