Braaaaiiiiinnnns (???) *spoilers*

[FankyMaloon]

In Episode 2 we learn two bits of info on how zombification supposedly occurs...but are these confirmed, or are they just ill-informed rumors?

1. Ben tells us, early on, that the Plague is not due to the bite, but that every death results in an automatic zombie - IF the corpse's brain is not destroyed.

2. The St. John Bros. tell us that humans are NOT tainted until actual death occurs; that's why they can eat human flesh...as long as it's from an otherwise LIVE victim.

Danny shoots the Crazy Lady At The Camp between the eyes, I guess on the theory that this has destroyed her brain as well, which may confirm Ben's info - but I'm not sure.
Likewise, Kenny kills Larry with the old saltlick-to-the-skull technique (an overused trope if there ever was one!), indicating that he's bought into Ben's story.

BUT...is either of these theories confirmed?

I mean, okay, Mama St. John is bitten by Mark - who I guess has died from his amputations and is now zombified? Or maybe Mark is NOT yet a zombie and is just biting her 'cause that's what he can do? Mama is later seen shambling down the hill toward Andy, so I guess we are to assume the transition happened to her pretty quickly. But, if Mark did turn zombie, then it's STILL from a bite.

In any case, IF the only safe death here is a brainless death, then our crew has just left the entire St. John clan with their brains intact and ready to come back to give Our Gang more grief.

BUT, so far, we haven't seen any real confirmation of Ben's theory...
...have we?

[The_Jesus_12489]

The coach in the beginning of the game. Only his leg had been cut off. He had not bee bitten. He reanimated fairly quickly. If I saw those things happen I would probably buy ben's story.

[marcu5]

have you never read the comics or watched the tv show

[Gman5852]

Not to mention that this IS the case in the actual comics the game is based off of. We see a person commit suicide just from sure craziness and still turn.

[CapnJay]

ben also mentions poor poor jenny pitcher. Sweet girl you would have liked her

[FankyMaloon]

have you never read the comics or watched the tv show
Obviously, neither I nor any of our crew in the game have read whatever comics you are referring to! :p

[FankyMaloon]

ben also mentions poor poor jenny pitcher. Sweet girl you would have liked her
Ben's story about Jenny Pitcher is not a confirmation that we have seen and experienced; it's just a second-hand tale from a teenager.

[FankyMaloon]

The coach in the beginning of the game. Only his leg had been cut off. He had not bee bitten. He reanimated fairly quickly. If I saw those things happen I would probably buy ben's story.

I think that's a valid confirmation...if Ben was correct that he had never been bitten.

Based on that, I'd wonder why any of our crew would EVER leave a killing with their brains intact, unless they were in a serious time crunch?

[CapnJay]

Jenny Pitcher never got bitten no boy or girl got their mouth near her till the third date.. Poor Jenny. She was sweet.

[FankyMaloon]

Jenny Pitcher never got bitten no boy or girl got their mouth near her till the third date.. Poor Jenny. She was sweet.
Glad to hear you've had first-hand carnal knowledge of Sweet Jenny Pitcher, Cap'n!
Sorry that the rest of us haven't!

[CapnJay]

Anyway the point being if she wasnt bitten then how did she turn. Ben indicated suicide and while I personally don't think she'd take that way out without extreme circumstances {like her little sister Becky being eaten by walkers in front of her.} If she did kill herself and raise unbitten how could it occur unless it's like Ben said.

[jaybreezy]

In any case, IF the only safe death here is a brainless death, then our crew has just left the entire St. John clan with their brains intact and ready to come back to give Our Gang more grief.

BUT, so far, we haven't seen any real confirmation of Ben's theory...
...have we?

1. We haven't left the ENTIRE clan ready to cause grief. Unless one of them chews his own leg off in order to get out of that bear trap we left him in.

2. Yes. Ben's theory is definitely confirmed.

[FankyMaloon]

Anyway the point being if she wasnt bitten then how did she turn...... If she did kill herself and raise unbitten how could it occur unless it's like Ben said.
Ben said Jenny was in the girl's room all night. We don't know what happened until the next morning, when she was found under circumstances young Ben can't quite describe.

[PuhChewyChomp]

She probably ate all her friends.

[FankyMaloon]

1. We haven't left the ENTIRE clan ready to cause grief. Unless one of them chews his own leg off in order to get out of that bear trap we left him in.
Do zombies feel pain?
I'm not sure about that yet. But pain is what would stop a human in a bear trap.

When they're used in the wild, a bear trap is chained to a stake, because the trap itself is not that heavy and a bear could easily carry it around.

Point is, the theory regarding zombie propagation doesn't yet seem to have been accepted by any of our clan, except Kenny.

2. Yes. Ben's theory is definitely confirmed.
By Ben's band leader, yes...IF we are to believe young Ben that the teacher had never been bitten.
Or is there some other event you're referring to?

[Milosuperspesh]

i smell repeat of the irene religion debate

even when the facts are so obvious and held up by several facts people still can't grasp the truth..

seriously...

[FankyMaloon]

i smell repeat of the irene religion debate

even when the facts are so obvious and held up by several facts people still can't grasp the truth..

seriously...

Seriously, Milo...be specific, willya?

[CapnJay]

Ben said Jenny was in the girl's room all night. We don't know what happened until the next morning, when she was found under circumstances young Ben can't quite describe.

are you implying that during the act of carnal relations with another of the girls in an attempt to find a small bit of comfort in this terrifying new world she was unaware the girl was bitten and the girl turned mid coitus and bit her?

because it sounds unlikely

[FankyMaloon]

are you implying that during the act of carnal relations with another of the girls in an attempt to find a small bit of comfort in this terrifying new world she was unaware the girl was bitten and the girl turned mid coitus and bit her?

:eek:Wow, Cap'n...that's quite a stretch!!!
No, I sure didn't say anything like that at all!

[CapnJay]

Jenny was way more observant then that. poor girl.

[Marleysativa]

Seriously, Milo...be specific, willya?

He was being specific. It's already been confirmed in all three mediums. You watch it happen, literally right in front of your face in episode 2. In the television show, Rick learns this at the CDC (He confirms it for himself when he kills Shane at the farm). In the comic, Rick goes back to Shane's body to dig it up and confirm his suspicions. Shane was killed by Carl and wasn't bitten.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to accept for you. No offense though.

[FankyMaloon]

Ben indicated suicide and while I personally don't think she'd take that way out without extreme circumstances
Sounds like you disbelieve Ben's story about Jenny, but you want to believe Ben's story that his band leader had not been bitten?
I think Ben is a skitterish teen who doesn't know what is happening.

Obviously CapnJay and others know about Jenny Pitcher and other details that have NOT been spelled out in the game so far. But I believe that the game should stand on its own, and I know nothing except what I have seen firsthand.

The thing that would confirm Ben's theory is a directly confirmed unbitten person dying and then zombifying. So far the closest we have come to seeing this is in Ben's band leader, and to believe that he's unbitten we have to believe in Ben...and CapnJay casts some doubt here.

The thing that would trash Ben's theory is if we saw a person killed whose brain was destroyed revive as a zombie. So far, we have seen the Crazy Forest Lady and Larry both killed this way, but the first was in a remote location with unknown brain damage and the second (verifiable brain damage!) was left in a storage room with a one-way door. So we really don't know the aftermath in either of these two cases.

[PuhChewyChomp]

You're high.

[FankyMaloon]

He was being specific.
Marley, saying no more than
"even when the facts are so obvious and held up by several facts"
...uhhh, that's NOT specific.

It's already been confirmed in all three mediums. You watch it happen, literally right in front of your face in episode 2. In the television show, Rick learns this at the CDC (He confirms it for himself when he kills Shane at the farm). In the comic, Rick goes back to Shane's body to dig it up and confirm his suspicions. Shane was killed by Carl and wasn't bitten.
I'm not sure why this is so hard to accept for you. No offense though.
Your first case is a maybe, depending on whether you believe in Ben or not.
The other two rely on your having read the comic book or having watched a TV show. Neither Lee, Carly, the rest of the crew or I have seen either the comic book or TV show. So we're all on the same level, learning how this zombification process works together.

If I were in their shoes and believed in Ben's theory, I wouldn't leave any killed human with an intact brain...ever. But in the game so far, only Kenny seems to have placed his faith in Ben.

This is why this is so hard to accept for me.

[CapnJay]

You should have known jenny fanky. you should have known her. ah well according to ben she's dead

[FankyMaloon]

It's quite apparent that you are very very VERY attached to this Jenny, Cap'n...someone we have not seen in-game because you have some acquaintance with her through another source.

As I'm sayin', the game should stand on its own. I am playing fresh here, and I only know as certainty what I've seen first-hand so far.

[CapnJay]

first hand lee can call ben a liar did you?

[Marleysativa]

Marley, saying no more than
"even when the facts are so obvious and held up by several facts"
...uhhh, that's NOT specific.


Your first case is a maybe, depending on whether you believe in Ben or not.
The other two rely on your having read the comic book or having watched a TV show. Neither Lee, Carly, the rest of the crew or I have seen either the comic book or TV show. So we're all on the same level, learning how this zombification process works together.

If I were in their shoes and believed in Ben's theory, I wouldn't leave any killed human with an intact brain...ever. But in the game so far, only Kenny seems to have placed his faith in Ben.

This is why this is so hard to accept for me.

I didn't see it as a maybe. I saw no injuries except for the bear trap and the stump I left after I cut him free. The first thing I would do was inspect his corpse to confirm that he wasn't bitten. I would assume Kat would have done that when trying to save his life.

Have you seen anything to disprove Ben's "theory"?

Edit: What the illustrious Captain is trying to say is that most people get zombie bites in places you see defensive wounds unless caught by surprise. Jenny was a bit of a free spirit. Her bite was on her inner thigh. It was a regular undead orgy, they just didn't want to shatter poor Ben's innocence when they told him about the tragedy.

[Gman5852]

If both Mark and the band teacher died for nonzombie reasons, then its obvious that this theory is true.

Seriously guys, when would the band teacher get bitten? Before the bear trap? He had no bite marks at all! He screams due to the bear trap, and there were no walkers nearby, so he clearly wasn't bitten.

Then there is Mark, who died when there weren't even any Walkers in the area at all and you can see WAS a walker during that confrontation seen with the female farmer(Betty was it?).

And then of course there is the fact that it is obviously true in the comics, which the game considers to be correct.

[CapnJay]

But technically lee only sees one reanimation

[Dildor]

I don't understand the point of this thread. It's canon in ALL walking dead mediums that everyone is already infected. Everything we've seen so far confirms that. Lee's group learns this a lot sooner than Rick, but there is little reason to question that and feign ignorance to the show and comic like you are doing. That's why people are nonsensically replying to this... I think.

And Kenny isn't the only one who believes what Ben said, just because he killed Larry in that situation. He WAS the only one who was WILLING to kill Larry before knowing if he was dead or not. You can side with Kenny, but the game isn't trying to make you decide whether to "believe" or "not believe" in Ben's "theory."

[ZombiesSLAYER]

I guess we will find out for the whole story, we're still in Part 1 & Part 2, 3, 4 & 5 yet have to come out- Hahaha, we gotta let the story finish it first ;)

[Marleysativa]

I don't understand the point of this thread. It's canon in ALL walking dead mediums that everyone is already infected. Everything we've seen so far confirms that. Lee's group learns this a lot sooner than Rick, but there is little reason to question that and feign ignorance to the show and comic like you are doing. That's why people are nonsensically replying to this... I think.

And Kenny isn't the only one who believes what Ben said, just because he killed Larry in that situation. He WAS the only one who was WILLING to kill Larry before knowing if he was dead or not. You can side with Kenny, but the game isn't trying to make you decide whether to "believe" or "not believe" in Ben's "theory."

Woah, woah, woah. These aren't nonsensical answers! It's not like we have had examples from the band teacher and Mark turning without bites. We also don't have two other mediums to confirm this crazy high-schoolers theory. Those don't matter, teenage girl zombies are clearly only created from orgies.

I'm seriously disappointed you would deny this. /sarcasmoff :p

[FankyMaloon]

The first thing I would do was inspect his corpse to confirm that he wasn't bitten. I would assume Kat would have done that when trying to save his life.You can check Katjaa from the moment the band teacher is brought into the motel compound to the time he dies; she never leaves the location of his stump to look elsewhere.

Have you seen anything to disprove Ben's "theory"?
Again, Ben stated that Jenny was in the girls' room all night, after maybe having popped some pills, and wasn't seen again 'til morning, when he implies that she has turned zombie. We game players know nothing of what transpired in between. Jenny appears to be Ben's only "evidence" of his "theory".

Kenny isn't the only one who believes what Ben said, just because he killed Larry in that situation. He WAS the only one who was WILLING to kill Larry before knowing if he was dead or not.So you're saying that, if you DID believe someone you killed would come back to attack you if you left their brain intact, then you'd leave their brain intact? Because that's what Our Gang has done so far with the entire St. John clan. Makes sense to you?

Jenny was a bit of a free spirit. Her bite was on her inner thigh. It was a regular undead orgy, they just didn't want to shatter poor Ben's innocence when they told him about the tragedy.You should have known jenny fanky. you should have known her.
And then of course there is the fact that it is obviously true in the comics
It's canon in ALL walking dead mediums that everyone is already infected.
This is all information NOT supplied in the game so far.
I give up. It's obviously impossible to get people who have been steeped in Walking Dead lore to see this question with fresh eyes.

[Marleysativa]

All information NOT supplied in the game so far.
I give up. It's obviously impossible to get people who have been steeped in Walking Dead lore to see this question with fresh eyes.

It's because seeing the band teacher and Mark both turn when we know for a fact that Mark wasn't bitten that it's a safe assumption. Seeing a zombified Mark should have been the only confirmation you needed. I find it hilarious you left it out of the quote from Gman and then saying you didn't have the information.

Also, we're joking about Jenny. Just let it go.

[CapnJay]

jenny wasnt in any of the comics the show or the games or the webisodes that im possibly making up off the top of my head i just liked the name jenny pitcher so i decided to act like i knew her

[ronCYA]

Nah, the game developers/writers know what they're doing.

- The bite creates an infection leading to a fatal fever, this is why you die even if the physical damage of the bite isn't fatal
- If you die through any means, you will turn into a walker

So what Ben means, is that death-by-brain-destruction is the only way for someone to die and not come back as a walker. It's confirmed in the game with the girl at his gym who committed suicide with pills, his band teacher who died from blood loss as well as Mark who died from blood loss. In the comics (which shares the same canonical universe as the game), it's been confirmed countless times as well as by Robert Kirkman himself.

As for the bite, which is fatal but doesn't do the zombifying- you've seen that countless times in episode 1 and 2 of the game. Everyone always either says or asks "IS HE BIT?" "HE'S BIT!" so the characters in the game have obviously seen people being bit, then turning into zombies. They're aware of the fatality of being bitten.

The only thing they haven't seen until Ben/his band leader come along, is seeing someone die without a bite OR a brain-destroyed death. But now, they've heard Ben's information as well as seen it for themselves two times (and Ben has seen it a third time as well).

Those are the rules of the game's universe, as well as the comics' as well as the TV show's.

[Sunago]

When you meet the band teacher in the forest he has no signs of a bite from the front. The only wound he has is from the bear trap. No bite.

When Mark is carrying him you can see his back several times and again, the only wound he has is his missing leg. No bite.

How the heck would he get a bite while in the motor inn, because that's the only time you turn your back on him. Katjaa chomping on him due to hunger? I don't think so.

Infected theory is confirmed, both by the Bandteacher and somewhat by Mark later on while you are trying to save Katjaa. It could be that Mark was chomped on during the moment you are locked up but that still leaves the Bandteacher so you can be pretty sure that everyone is infected and Ben is telling the truth. The reason everyone is yelling at the boy as to why he didn't tell them the guy is bitten is because they are panicking and they think that's the only way you turn.

[FankyMaloon]

The reason everyone is yelling at the boy as to why he didn't tell them the guy is bitten is because they are panicking and they think that's the only way you turn.
one more time:
IF Lee and everyone in our crew believes Ben in this regard, then WHY would they leave the three St. Johns with intact brains to return as zombies?

Those are the rules of the game's universe, as well as the comics' as well as the TV show's.
It is apparent that Lee and everyone in our crew (save perhaps Kenny) have not learned these rules yet. They should read the comics and watch the TV show!
It appears to be impossible to get this forum to understand that the game should stand on its own, with no prior knowledge of Walking Dead lore.

[WowMutt]

Do zombies feel pain?
I'm not sure about that yet. But pain is what would stop a human in a bear trap.


I cant remember where, but I once saw something where it was mentioned, in theory, that zombies are stronger than average humans because they dont have that threshold of pain.

Pain is what will make us stop trying to pry a beartrap jaws open. we can pull all we can til your fingers and muscles reach thier limit.

Zombies do not have this limit and will pull to the point of causeing themselves damage!

[Sisterofshane]

one more time:
IF Lee and everyone in our crew believes Ben in this regard, then WHY would they leave the three St. Johns with intact brains to return as zombies?


It is apparent that Lee and everyone in our crew (save perhaps Kenny) have not learned these rules yet. They should read the comics and watch the TV show!
It appears to be impossible to get this forum to understand that the game should stand on its own, with no prior knowledge of Walking Dead lore.

What difference does three more Walkers make, unless they are of IMMEDIATE danger to your group? Besides, we as players are not on a personal crusade to go out killing every potential threat, especially at the risk of our own lives.

The first brother is trapped in the modified trap in the Barn, and your immediate thoughts should go first to rescuing Katjaa and Duck. You make it to the house, and rescue Katjaa - Brenda is preoccupied with Walker Mark. That still leaves Duck in danger. Then you have the confrontation with the second brother. Once everyone is safe, you really only have a few moments left before a TON of Walkers invade the farm. There is NO TIME to go about preparing the corpses of the St. John's in order to stop them from becoming Walkers.

You don't need the comic books or the TV show to see that.

[Jake]

one more time:
IF Lee and everyone in our crew believes Ben in this regard, then WHY would they leave the three St. Johns with intact brains to return as zombies?

They leave them alive-to-turn or dead-to-turn either way. The dairy is overrun with zombies by the end. What is the difference if 3 more are there? It is a fair point, but if you're leaving the area as it's being overrun, I don't know if there's a huge difference in making sure you take the time to destroy their brain.

I am obviously biased but I feel like the characters in the game are given ample information to draw their own conclusions. Ben tells them the rules as he understands them, from his experience with his school trip. Then they see it happen to Travis or David, then you see it happen to Mark. Kenny also clearly believes these rules Ben told him to be true, because he wants to destroy Larry's brain after Larry POTENTIALLY died of "just" a heart attack.

Whether or not Rick Grimes, or fans of the comic, or viewers of the TV show know the rules is irrelevant because the characters in the game figure them out and see them first hand within this story. I don't know if there is any debate at all here. This thread seems like it's being kept alive for some sort of aggressive novelty value.

[CapnJay]

jake you dont mind our jenny pitcher jokes do you?

[Instant Karma]

It appears to be impossible to get this forum to understand that the game should stand on its own, with no prior knowledge of Walking Dead lore.

But it shouldn't. It has been clearly stated that this ties in with the comic book lore. It has already been made abundantly clear in that medium that zombification happens at death unless the brain is destroyed.

Regardless of all that, there is absolutely no logical reason to doubt Ben when he tells you.

[PuhChewyChomp]

jake you dont mind our jenny pitcher jokes do you?

YOU DON'T JOKE ABOUT JENNY PITCHER! She was a kind soul and will be deeply missed by those who knew her.

[CapnJay]

do you think her sister becky is ok?

[PuhChewyChomp]

I sure hope so. Haven't heard a thing about her since she went off to college.

[CapnJay]

R.I.P. Jenny Pitcher

[PuhChewyChomp]

Jenny Pitcher memorial thread?

[CapnJay]

we'll memorialize her here since vain doesnt like us opening random threads

[Milosuperspesh]

ok i'll be more specific...

you see a spade, you know it's spade it looks like a spade, it's the right size for a spade, it even has spade on the handle

someone comes along and calls it an axe....

[NessaT]

don't know if there is any debate at all here. This thread seems like it's being kept alive for some sort of aggressive novelty value.

Man, you should have seen some of the other threads then. They're worse I can tell you that. This is pretty mild in comparison.

In any case, I think the game world had been clear thus far - they were all infected. Ben told them, and they believed it. I understood it even without reading the comics or watching the TV series at that point in time.

The entire scene at the barn is just an indication of how the players choose to view the world. Will they degenerate and start killing people / non-zombies just because they can? It's a moral question there. Personally, I think Clem is like Dale in the TV series (i've just completed watching today!) - they serve as a moral compass of sorts. Kenny is like Shane - they kill off perceived threats because they can and there is nothing to stop them doing it.

On the whole, I do think the game is well done. Not perfect, perhaps, but still well done.

[Strayth]

I wonder what happened in the very beginning of episode I ...

I remember an unbitten cop, a car crash...

OH YEAH AND HE CAME BACK AS A ZOMBIE.

[Milosuperspesh]

I wonder what happened in the very beginning of episode I ...

I remember an unbitten cop, a car crash...

OH YEAH AND HE CAME BACK AS A ZOMBIE.

well the cop was dragged from the car and more than likely chomped on but you can't really see any injuries other than he died and came back so it can go both ways

[Strayth]

well the cop was dragged from the car and more than likely chomped on but you can't really see any injuries other than he died and came back so it can go both ways

Given how talktative the cop was, it is entirely impossible for him to have been bitten by a zombie and not telling Lee.

[jangjangchang]

Given how talktative the cop was, it is entirely impossible for him to have been bitten by a zombie and not telling Lee.

You were unconscious for 2 days though and saw walkers moving around. I'm pretty sure a walker must of got him in that time.

[kikyouchanx]

It's a virus. The virus goes into effect when someone dies. Pretty simple, really.

[Dildor]

I don't know if there is any debate at all here. This thread seems like it's being kept alive for some sort of aggressive novelty value.

Aw c'mon, it's better than starting a debate over pointless theorizing and false speculation. :p

[WowMutt]

I wonder what happened in the very beginning of episode I ...

I remember an unbitten cop, a car crash...

OH YEAH AND HE CAME BACK AS A ZOMBIE.

I think you're wrong.. Lee kinda wakes up and hears the cop screaming. Obviously the zombies dragged him from the car and had snack. Do you not remember the long trail of blood from the car to the cop's body?

Regardless, It's well know in this zombie-verse that one only needs to die of any cause (other than a bullet or salt-lick to the brain) and will return as a zombie.

[PuhChewyChomp]

What if they die of a broken heart like poor Jenny?

[CapnJay]

poor jenny pitcher dead of a broken heart and a stomach full of painkillers. if only we had seen the warning signs

[ChickVelcro]

What difference does three more Walkers make, unless they are of IMMEDIATE danger to your group? Besides, we as players are not on a personal crusade to go out killing every potential threat, especially at the risk of our own lives.

The first brother is trapped in the modified trap in the Barn, and your immediate thoughts should go first to rescuing Katjaa and Duck. You make it to the house, and rescue Katjaa - Brenda is preoccupied with Walker Mark. That still leaves Duck in danger. Then you have the confrontation with the second brother. Once everyone is safe, you really only have a few moments left before a TON of Walkers invade the farm. There is NO TIME to go about preparing the corpses of the St. John's in order to stop them from becoming Walkers.

You don't need the comic books or the TV show to see that.

Exactly this.

It was a hectic situation, they didn't have time to go around destroying all the brains. There were other people to save... and then they had to make a quick escape as the other walkers were getting through the fence. A few more walkers aren't gonna make any difference, there are already hundreds roaming around.