[SPOILERS from page 3]Logic says the Doug/Carly Will Die in Ep 3

[dankirk]

Since you chose to save one or the other in ep 1, then they are both expendable. It wouldn't make sense to build the complete story around which one you chose. I'm betting that whoever you saved in ep 1 will die in ep 3. Neither can be a main player.

[Kiel555]

That last episode of talking dead was not encouraging. I got the impression that group casualties are going to be very high in the next three episodes. Last episode was 20%, to be worse could be 30% casualties. That's three people.

I'm thinking Kenny leaves the group after another blow up with Lilly. Something bad happens and Kenny comes back to the group but not with Kat, Duck and Ben.

Doug died in the first episode so no worries there.

[Rock114]

Going in to this game, I kind of knew group casualties would be high. I just really hope that Carley makes it, she's the closest thing Clem has to a mom and will look after her if something happens to Lee. Not that I want anyone else to die of course, but we're probably in for some heartbreak now that we're getting to the half-way point of the game.

[kirby18]

yea i made this point in another thread. the acheivements for episode 3 have already come out and one of them is called sonething to the extent of we cant all survive. theres also another one I believe the first one, that suggests carly/doug is gonna get axed. actually i can almost guarantee it...

Telltale has dissapointed us enough as it is. if they keep carly/doug around that means more of a storyline they must create and more developing they must do... its best to try to keep everyone with the same characters. Also i think this will happen in the very beginning of the episode.

therefore, I AM GUARANTEEING THE DEATH OR DEPARTURE OF CARLY / DOUG

[thestalkinghead]

yea i made this point in another thread. the acheivements for episode 3 have already come out and one of them is called sonething to the extent of we cant all survive. theres also another one I believe the first one, that suggests carly/doug is gonna get axed. actually i can almost guarantee it...

Telltale has dissapointed us enough as it is. if they keep carly/doug around that means more of a storyline they must create and more developing they must do... its best to try to keep everyone with the same characters. Also i think this will happen in the very beginning of the episode.

therefore, I AM GUARANTEEING THE DEATH OR DEPARTURE OF CARLY / DOUG

but if they both have to die wouldn't that make your choice to save either one of them inconsequential because neither of them have done anything that was different from each other, nothing important anyway.

[Zeruis]

"People will die, I mean, this the Walking Dead"- Nick Herman, Playing Dead episode 5. This makes me feel that there will be more than one person from the group dying. Going on hope here and assuming since Doug is the developers favorite, Carley and Doug will be safe in episode 3.

[Kiel555]

.

therefore, I AM GUARANTEEING THE DEATH OR DEPARTURE OF CARLY / DOUG

That certainly makes sense from a programming perspective. But TTG is about the story. I just get the sense that Kenny has been talking all along about getting his family to the coast. In the preview he leaves with Ben. But he's still part of the group later on. He's shown it what looks like a storm drain manhole with Lee and Christa as part of e4. Why is he sticking around?

[j.em26]

Honestly, Kenny, Ben, Doug/Carley will be alive, so will Lilly.

That is, assuming that TTG follows the scenes depicted in TTG.
I'm pretty sure if Doug/Carley had to die, they will probably live to see another night in episode 3 before they get killed off.
Go have a look at the bonfire scene in TWDG's debut trailer.

Safe to say, Ben will be alive, and he will be present if Christa decides to commit suicide.
My intuition tells me that Omid will not make it in Episode 3.

[Master of Aeons]

Too early. I think they'll survive until the last chapter, then everyone will die.

[TheWildcard]

Yes doug/carly must die. I doubt they are going to put forth the effort to keep them around. They automatically have to make 2 versions of anything those characters are involved in. I believe the doug/carly thing to be a tool to help the illusion of choice and I doubt it will be used again. I actually think we will see a lot of disposable characters like mark. Introduced and killed in the same episode....

[Master of Aeons]

But that'd only be one full episode they will have to have programed around a dual character. I'm no programmer, but I don't think it's hard to fit in one character that affect the story in the same way with only cosmetic differences with different dialogue trees. I give them two full episodes at least. They die episode 4 or 5. I say 5.

[trd84]

Yes doug/carly must die. I doubt they are going to put forth the effort to keep them around. They automatically have to make 2 versions of anything those characters are involved in. I believe the doug/carly thing to be a tool to help the illusion of choice and I doubt it will be used again. I actually think we will see a lot of disposable characters like mark. Introduced and killed in the same episode....

Them doing the same thing slightly different makes that choice meaningless.

[Cyreen]

There might be another choice with new characters and a new split that overlap Carley/Doug, maybe Christa/Omid.

[Master of Aeons]

Them doing the same thing slightly different makes that choice meaningless.

About as meaningless as the famous Professor Oak question.

[thestalkinghead]

But that'd only be one full episode they will have to have programed around a dual character. I'm no programmer, but I don't think it's hard to fit in one character that affect the story in the same way with only cosmetic differences with different dialogue trees. I give them two full episodes at least. They die episode 4 or 5. I say 5.

would it really be so hard to have at least one different location with its own enclosed puzzle/set piece for carley and doug sort of like the Irene/parking lot bit but with it only impacting carley or doug (could just be the two of us) then coming back to the main story

[TheWildcard]

Them doing the same thing slightly different makes that choice meaningless.

Pretty much. I doubt they are going to be able to make the decisions truely meaningful...IMHO they have failed to do so thus far.

[jaybreezy]

I AM GUARANTEEING THE DEATH OR DEPARTURE OF CARLY / DOUG

Hmmm... Are you actually qualified to make that guarantee???

I guarantee that they make it through this next episode. How about that? :D

[Awesoke]

Have the achievements really been leaked? Who would want to ruin their own experience by looking ahead?

[Xirsche]

Have the achievements really been leaked? Who would want to ruin their own experience by looking ahead?

Someone posted a sort of screenshot of trophies/achievements for all of the episodes. :/

[Bearcules]

This thread made me think of Mark. He was only around for a short bit in episode two but I wish I could have done something to save him. He certainly seemed a lot more likeable than Doug.

[Ja1862]

Yes doug/carly must die. I doubt they are going to put forth the effort to keep them around. They automatically have to make 2 versions of anything those characters are involved in. I believe the doug/carly thing to be a tool to help the illusion of choice and I doubt it will be used again. I actually think we will see a lot of disposable characters like mark. Introduced and killed in the same episode....

Very true a smart person can tell by ep2 that the choice thing is bs, the story pans out exactly the same way just with tiny little dialogue changes.

There is no real choice, they didn't kill Doug/Carly in ep2 because people would be like "What was the point of that choice" so they kept them around but made sure they hardly appeared, hoping people wouldn't be able to tell that they do basically the same thing. Just with different weapons. So they just created Mark (a random guy) to fit their spot.

Now killing them in ep3 makes it look like the choice you made was actually important (or so they think), players are not idiots any person with sense can tell the point was ridiculous since it hasn't/wont play a major part in the story.

Come ep3 the choices will still be the same, nothing changes at all apart from tiny dialogue pieces.

Examples

Leave night/day - nothing happens that changes the story just a tiny different cut scene.

Save Shaun - Dies either way.

Kick duck out - Just one tiny bit of dialogue by Kenny in ep2 doesn't change the story one bit, he will say the same stuff he normally does to keep the story moving.

Save Doug or Carly - both do the exact same thing in ep2 just with different weapons and are hardly in it.

Cut teachers leg of - either way the story pans out exactly the scene apart from the opening cut scene.

Save Larry - Dies either way

Kill the St. John brothers - you can count on everything being the same, maybe just someone saying remember when you killed those guys etc.

Kenny/Lilly - nothing will change, the story will just branch out the same.

This = Choices being pointless, it pretends to be something it's not but any smart person who does a 2nd play through can tell how meaningless they really are. To get real choice within a story they would need to be better developers/bigger team and more time.

The way things are looking for the new Walking Dead game it sounds like that will actually have more choice as you choose to team up with people or kill them, that rite there is more choice then what we are actually given within this game.

[Hudomonkey]

Most decisions don't make a real long term impact other than views so I hope they keep doug alive(for me) just because so far it is the only choice that has really made a big impact

[thestalkinghead]

Very true a smart person can tell by ep2 that the choice thing is bs, the story pans out exactly the same way just with tiny little dialogue changes.

There is no real choice, they didn't kill Doug/Carly in ep2 because people would be like "What was the point of that choice" so they kept them around but made sure they hardly appeared, hoping people wouldn't be able to tell that they do basically the same thing. Just with different weapons. So they just created Mark (a random guy) to fit their spot.

Now killing them in ep3 makes it look like the choice you made was actually important (or so they think), players are not idiots any person with sense can tell the point was ridiculous since it hasn't/wont play a major part in the story.

Come ep3 the choices will still be the same, nothing changes at all apart from tiny dialogue pieces.

Examples

Leave night/day - nothing happens that changes the story just a tiny different cut scene.

Save Shaun - Dies either way.

Kick duck out - Just one tiny bit of dialogue by Kenny in ep2 doesn't change the story one bit, he will say the same stuff he normally does to keep the story moving.

Save Doug or Carly - both do the exact same thing in ep2 just with different weapons and are hardly in it.

Cut teachers leg of - either way the story pans out exactly the scene apart from the opening cut scene.

Save Larry - Dies either way

Kill the St. John brothers - you can count on everything being the same, maybe just someone saying remember when you killed those guys etc.

Kenny/Lilly - nothing will change, the story will just branch out the same.

This = Choices being pointless, it pretends to be something it's not but any smart person who does a 2nd play through can tell how meaningless they really are. To get real choice within a story they would need to be better developers/bigger team and more time.

The way things are looking for the new Walking Dead game it sounds like that will actually have more choice as you choose to team up with people or kill them, that rite there is more choice then what we are actually given within this game.

we are just hoping that there will be more change as it goes on, i don't know why buy you saying a smart person can tell there is no difference made me laugh, i think you may be giving yourself to much credit, it obvious if you just play it more than once, maybe a stupid person wouldn't notice but you don't have to be particularly smart to tell its the same :)

[Hudomonkey]

we are just hoping that there will be more change as it goes on, i don't know why buy you saying a smart person can tell there is no difference made me laugh, i think you may be giving yourself to much credit, it obvious if you just play it more than once, maybe a stupid person wouldn't notice but you don't have to be particularly smart to tell its the same :)

Most games choices don't really change anything
Example: Skyrim Civil war

[Ja1862]

we are just hoping that there will be more change as it goes on, i don't know why buy you saying a smart person can tell there is no difference made me laugh, i think you may be giving yourself to much credit, it obvious if you just play it more than once, maybe a stupid person wouldn't notice but you don't have to be particularly smart to tell its the same :)

I've seen a few people on here talk about the choices actually changing the game, lol they are the stupid people.

[thestalkinghead]

Most games choices don't really change anything
Example: Skyrim Civil war

does anybody say how great that is?

[ShadowFlux]

Very true a smart person can tell by ep2 that the choice thing is bs, the story pans out exactly the same way just with tiny little dialogue changes.

There is no real choice, they didn't kill Doug/Carly in ep2 because people would be like "What was the point of that choice" so they kept them around but made sure they hardly appeared, hoping people wouldn't be able to tell that they do basically the same thing. Just with different weapons. So they just created Mark (a random guy) to fit their spot.

Now killing them in ep3 makes it look like the choice you made was actually important (or so they think), players are not idiots any person with sense can tell the point was ridiculous since it hasn't/wont play a major part in the story.

Come ep3 the choices will still be the same, nothing changes at all apart from tiny dialogue pieces.

Examples

Leave night/day - nothing happens that changes the story just a tiny different cut scene.

Save Shaun - Dies either way.

Kick duck out - Just one tiny bit of dialogue by Kenny in ep2 doesn't change the story one bit, he will say the same stuff he normally does to keep the story moving.

Save Doug or Carly - both do the exact same thing in ep2 just with different weapons and are hardly in it.

Cut teachers leg of - either way the story pans out exactly the scene apart from the opening cut scene.

Save Larry - Dies either way

Kill the St. John brothers - you can count on everything being the same, maybe just someone saying remember when you killed those guys etc.

Kenny/Lilly - nothing will change, the story will just branch out the same.

This = Choices being pointless, it pretends to be something it's not but any smart person who does a 2nd play through can tell how meaningless they really are. To get real choice within a story they would need to be better developers/bigger team and more time.

The way things are looking for the new Walking Dead game it sounds like that will actually have more choice as you choose to team up with people or kill them, that rite there is more choice then what we are actually given within this game.

I think it's pretty evident that everyone will follow the same story arc with minor (likely only cosmetic/dialogue) choice changes sprinkled in.

It's not like Episode 3 is "Long road ahead/Short road nowhere" based on choice. Think about how much the story would branch with even only 2 story line choices for every episode over 5 episodes.
They're aiming for a monthly release (and already missing, on a monthly basis), that amount of extra work would make this MUCH longer than it's already taking.

Personally, it's not a big deal for me. I enjoy it and recognize it for what it is.

As for the Activision game coming out (I assume this is what you're talking about). Most likely a LOT more development time going into it than the TTG, and a larger price tag than $24.99 for the season.
Sure, what it says things that look great on paper, but that doesn't always translate to a better experience.
Same thing could be said for The War Z, which is the game I've been waiting for more info on.

[j.em26]

So are we all in agreement that our favorite reporter or IT guy is likely to go by next chapter ?
Oh god, please don't kill them off. At least not on screen.

[thestalkinghead]

So are we all in agreement that our favorite reporter or IT guy is likely to go by next chapter ?
Oh god, please don't kill them off. At least not on screen.

if they die off screen i would be very annoyed, i would rather kill them myself then have an off screen death

[j.em26]

if they die off screen i would be very annoyed, i would rather kill them myself then have an off screen death
Can we not have them die at all instead ?
By the way, does anyone have the link for the leaked Episode 3 Achievements ? Wanna have a look at it.

[SilencerSteven]

Have the achievements really been leaked? Who would want to ruin their own experience by looking ahead?

yeah, I posted a link of the trophies but I don't feel like I ruined my experience. Im more of a "not the destination but the journey" kind of guy. On another note hopefully they don't kill off Doug im coolest with him and he still needs his moment to shine :/

[franapbsilva]

Well, untill now Doug and Carley have done pretty much the same thing. In episode two, they made them desapear for almost half of the episode. So in this third episode I would expect to see the story changing more depending on that choice, and killing them to make their work easier would make me disapointed. Thay saied people will die in this episode, but I would bet more on Katjaa, Duck, Ben or Omid than in Carley/Doug.

[SadClown]

yea i made this point in another thread. the acheivements for episode 3 have already come out and one of them is called sonething to the extent of we cant all survive. theres also another one I believe the first one, that suggests carly/doug is gonna get axed. actually i can almost guarantee it...

Telltale has dissapointed us enough as it is. if they keep carly/doug around that means more of a storyline they must create and more developing they must do... its best to try to keep everyone with the same characters. Also i think this will happen in the very beginning of the episode.

therefore, I AM GUARANTEEING THE DEATH OR DEPARTURE OF CARLY / DOUG


The name of the achievement for completing chapter 1 is called "Goodbye, she quietly says." Which wouldn't make much sense for Doug.

I see one achievement name that may prove what you're saying but it doesn't imply ANYTHING towards Doug or Carley.

[Ja1862]

The Devs continue to plug away about how unique and great this choice method is; and how different everyone's play can be lol.

[JCMcAdams84]

How big of an impact do you want you picks to make? In real life most things don't make a big difference. Should I go to Burger King or McDs? In a game you'd spend an hour picking, "what if there is someone at BK with a special quest or McD's has some cool item in the kid's meal?" In real life it means nothing, and so would saving one person over another I'm sorry to say. What if this, hypothetically, were a real world event would you think would be different from Carley to Doug? And after three months? Doug sets up a alarm system and Carley is always on guard duty, yeah you can say it's 'cosmetic' but with their personalities as set in game what else would they do? Should Doug have built a massive mech and Carley have rigged up a assault cannon? It's episode two people, and with the delays I'm inclined to think it's over time because they are fleshing out the differences, cosmetic in episode two, more substantial in episode three and who knows, maybe in episode 4 Clem's survival will hinge on which person you brought along? I'm not saying it will, I'm just waiting till episode three comes out to say, "Man TTG sucks, blah, no real choice, mah," or, "Well done TTG, awesome game, my choices mattered."

Just like Mass Effect, everyone said after ME2 (because ME1 had such little impact) that ME3 would not take into account any of your choices, and true some were minor, really just a nod to the hard core fans. But other things had a huge impact. we're talking hundreds of points towards the perfect ending and whole missions being completely different.

So how about we all grow up a little and hold off judgement about how poorly (or well in fact) the TTG folks are handling the whole choice thing at least until episode 3?

[Ja1862]

How big of an impact do you want you picks to make? In real life most things don't make a big difference. Should I go to Burger King or McDs? In a game you'd spend an hour picking, "what if there is someone at BK with a special quest or McD's has some cool item in the kid's meal?" In real life it means nothing, and so would saving one person over another I'm sorry to say. What if this, hypothetically, were a real world event would you think would be different from Carley to Doug? And after three months? Doug sets up a alarm system and Carley is always on guard duty, yeah you can say it's 'cosmetic' but with their personalities as set in game what else would they do? Should Doug have built a massive mech and Carley have rigged up a assault cannon? It's episode two people, and with the delays I'm inclined to think it's over time because they are fleshing out the differences, cosmetic in episode two, more substantial in episode three and who knows, maybe in episode 4 Clem's survival will hinge on which person you brought along? I'm not saying it will, I'm just waiting till episode three comes out to say, "Man TTG sucks, blah, no real choice, mah," or, "Well done TTG, awesome game, my choices mattered."

Just like Mass Effect, everyone said after ME2 (because ME1 had such little impact) that ME3 would not take into account any of your choices, and true some were minor, really just a nod to the hard core fans. But other things had a huge impact. we're talking hundreds of points towards the perfect ending and whole missions being completely different.

So how about we all grow up a little and hold off judgement about how poorly (or well in fact) the TTG folks are handling the whole choice thing at least until episode 3?


Are we really trying to use a McDonalds/Burger King as some sort of analogy?
Congratulations I feel more stupid after having read all of that post.

[zgamer]

Given Doug is their pet favorite and they made such a big deal with that choice in the first episode, I'm going to say logic says they will not die. Since the goal of the game is that your choices influenced who will survive, I highly doubt telltale would take such a pivotal choice and then make it not matter. It takes more programming time for sure, but I doubt they want to piss the fans more than they already have.

No, I think logic says Katjaa and Duck are likely to die this episode. It would only be fair to put Kenny in a similar situation as they did with Larry with Katjaa and/or Duck. It would be fitting poetically and it would make sense since they have been on the same level of expendability as Larry or Mark were (not that they are useless but they are less complex or developed as the key players).

[zgamer]

we are just hoping that there will be more change as it goes on, i don't know why buy you saying a smart person can tell there is no difference made me laugh, i think you may be giving yourself to much credit, it obvious if you just play it more than once, maybe a stupid person wouldn't notice but you don't have to be particularly smart to tell its the same :)

Yeah, I'm on this guy's side. To assert "a smart person" can just rule out that choices matter is an arrogant assumption given we have only played 40% of the story at most! We still have seven or so more hours of story that could open up the story for branching. Taking the pessimistic and condescending route with your statement just makes you look like a blowhard!

[zgamer]

The name of the achievement for completing chapter 1 is called "Goodbye, she quietly says." Which wouldn't make much sense for Doug.

I see one achievement name that may prove what you're saying but it doesn't imply ANYTHING towards Doug or Carley.

Yeah. The achievements are for general plot points, not specific details. Killing or sparing Andy will yield the same achievement, choosing Doug or Carley is the same achievement and killing or trying to save Larry is the same achievement. So how could that achievement in Episode 3 be specific to killing Carley? I highly doubt there is a specific achievement for Doug dying, so I say that the assumption is false.

Also, Carley is one of the fan voted favorites while Doug is the developer pet favorite. Doubt they would want to write them off that quickly.

[JCMcAdams84]

Are we really trying to use a McDonalds/Burger King as some sort of analogy?
Congratulations I feel more stupid after having read all of that post.

No "WE" are not, I am however. I'm not the King of England.

And the reason I used such hyperbole (if my last post really made you more stupid look this big'ol word up) was because I was making a point, most choices you make in a game have little impact in the long run, even seemingly big ones at the time like which person lives or dies (see my Mass Effect comments from above); but we agonize over them at the moment, for instance, how many people replay the game from the beginning to see how the cop we know will die in the first five minutes responded to things or just to get what we as Lee said just right? Even though those things have no impact? Or rewind to save (or kill) one or both of the St. Jones brothers which will probably make little difference by episode 5?

My over all point, however, was that we can't make a snap judgments on how well a game that in only 2/5ths of the way to the end is handling our picks (for good or ill, I stated that TTG may botch this whole thing but I'm waiting to see).

I'm not picking on you by the way, and much of this is meant in jest so please take it as such; but also understand the legitimacy of my point if you intend to respond.

[ComixFan]

I honestly see nothing to indicate that either Carly and Doug are "sure" to die in Long Road Ahead. Could there be a choice in the episode that decides which among the party dies? Of course, and Carly or Doug could very well be among those choices. However, while they might be an option for loss/sacrifice, it doesn't mean it's a set part of the story.

The achievement regarding a female character leaving is more likely to do with Lily since her character plays a pivotal role in Rick Grimes' story and the Governor/Woodbury arch in the comics, which TWD Game ties into. Basically Lily will not be staying nor will she die. As for any arguments regarding Carly it seems more like certain people in this thread *want* her to die as opposed to any genuine indications from the game/team that she will. From what I've read, it seems folks are grasping at straws as opposed to showcasing any hard evidence.

From everything we've experienced thus far, I will make the assumption that it's very unlikely that she or Doug is a "sure thing" death; as I mentioned previously it might come down to choosing between saving her or other members of the party, i.e. Ben, Katjaa, Duck, Kenny, or the two new characters introduced in the Talking Dead interview. While our choices, to this point, have been light on effecting the direction of the game's narrative (with the exception of Larry's Death. The choice of who you sided with is likely going to have a massive impact on the events of Long Road Ahead) it seems obvious to me that, with Episode 3, that will change.

The purpose of the first two episodes were to, really, get us into this world through Lee and his choices, shaping the character, and Clem, for the future. Now that we are firmly entrenched in the what TWD world has become, and begun to see the ramifications of our choices, it's a different Ball-Game from this point forward, so speculating accurately is, I think, difficult and making too bold a claim, or dismissing other possibilities outright, is a bit myopic.

So, might Carly/Doug die? Yes, possibly. But I believe they will be a choice among many. To be completely forthcoming it is my hope that she will not die, but that rather she will take on a role for Lee for the next few "seasons" much as Andrea has become for Rick in the graphic novels. Also, for the record, Telltale nor the Walking Dead Game has disappointed me in the slightest and, believe me, I have fairly high standards/expectations of the games I play. I'm sorry others feel otherwise as it means they are not likely to enjoy what Tell Tale has forthcoming considering that, due to the game's success, they aren't likely to change their approach to the game's narrative, characters, or system of delivery/release dates.

[dankirk]

To be completely forthcoming it is my hope that she will not die, but that rather she will take on a role for Lee for the next few "seasons" much as Andrea has become for Rick in the graphic novels.

Carly has already died for about half the players. She cannot play that crucial a role in the story. Neither can Doug, for the folks that saved him. Since either of them could have died, they are both expendable, and I predict that whoever was saved in episode 1 will perish in episode 3.

[ComixFan]

Carly has already died for about half the players. She cannot play that crucial a role in the story. Neither can Doug, for the folks that saved him. Since either of them could have died, they are both expendable, and I predict that whoever was saved in episode 1 will perish in episode 3.

What logic on you basing that upon? Merely because one or the other could have died in the first episode? Do you honestly believe the writing and programming talent of TWD Team is so limited they could not write a continuing story for both Carly and Doug? The fact that we're asked to choose between them in Episode 1, and their confidant like nature with Lee, only validates the possibility that both are intended to play important roles in the continuing narrative, and not merely as sacrificial characters for Long Road Ahead.

Now does that mean there's no chance they will die? Of course not. However I do believe that we will be given the choice of which central characters will be lost. Clearly it won't be Lily due to her importance beyond Lee's story; however that does leave room for Kenny, Ben, Duck, Katjaa, or either of the two new characters. Episode 5 of Talking Dead indicated clearly that, from this point forward, things get bigger and more complicated, hence introducing two new characters. That does not, however, prove with any degree of finality that Carly or Doug *will* die regardless of our choices.

[dankirk]

What logic on you basing that upon? Merely because one or the other could have died in the first episode? Do you honestly believe the writing and programming talent of TWD Team is so limited they could not write a continuing story for both Carly and Doug? The fact that we're asked to choose between them in Episode 1, and their confidant like nature with Lee, only validates the possibility that both are intended to play important roles in the continuing narrative, and not merely as sacrificial characters for Long Road Ahead.

Now does that mean there's no chance they will die? Of course not. However I do believe that we will be given the choice of which central characters will be lost. Clearly it won't be Lily due to her importance beyond Lee's story; however that does leave room for Kenny, Ben, Duck, Katjaa, or either of the two new characters. Episode 5 of Talking Dead indicated clearly that, from this point forward, things get bigger and more complicated, hence introducing two new characters. That does not, however, prove with any degree of finality that Carly or Doug *will* die regardless of our choices.

I don't doubt that Telltale could write two completely separate story arcs, depending on which character was saved in ep 1. I doubt that they would do that. The Doug/Carly character will be limited to bit/similar roles, just as they were in ep 2. I stand by my prediction that he/she will be killed in ep 3. I will admit, however, that I've been wrong before.... I honestly don't care if he/she kicks the bucket. I just wanna play the game!

[TheWildcard]

What logic on you basing that upon?The logistics of it. Merely because one or the other could have died in the first episode?This is exactly why. Do you honestly believe the writing and programming talent of TWD Team is so limited they could not write a continuing story for both Carly and Doug?This question is pointless. Obviously they could if they really wanted to and took the time. The thing is these characters are not going to be worth the time. The fact that we're asked to choose between them in Episode 1, and their confidant like nature with Lee, only validates the possibility that both are intended to play important roles in the continuing narrative, and not merely as sacrificial characters for Long Road AheadAnd its this line of thought that makes them the perfect sacrificial character...It will get a larger emotional response from people like yourself that have become attached..

Now does that mean there's no chance they will die? Of course not. However I do believe that we will be given the choice of which central characters will be lost. Clearly it won't be Lily due to her importance beyond Lee's story; however that does leave room for Kenny, Ben, Duck, Katjaa, or either of the two new charactersThey can't constantly introduce new characters and kill them off in the same episode. The emotional investment isn't there and the impact will be lessened each time they do it.. Episode 5 of Talking Dead indicated clearly that, from this point forward, things get bigger and more complicated, hence introducing two new characters. That does not, however, prove with any degree of finality that Carly or Doug *will* die regardless of our choices.

And if they do die regardless of our choices just like we predict? Either doug and carly are going to die or they are going to be backseat characters we barely see. Its easier to kill them now while people are obviously still partially attached instead of down the line when people stop caring. It also makes more sense from a development stand point...

[ComixFan]

I don't doubt that Telltale could write two completely separate story arcs, depending on which character was saved in ep 1. I doubt that they would do that. The Doug/Carly character will be limited to bit/similar roles, just as they were in ep 2. I stand by my prediction that he/she will be killed in ep 3. I will admit, however, that I've been wrong before.... I honestly don't care if he/she kicks the bucket. I just wanna play the game!

I don't agree with that in the slightest; however I don't think reiterating the same points on my part is going to get this debate anywhere. I will, however, agree that I have enjoyed the episodes thus far and look forward to playing what-ever comes next.

[ComixFan]

And if they do die regardless of our choices just like we predict? Either doug and carly are going to die or they are going to be backseat characters we barely see. Its easier to kill them now while people are obviously still partially attached instead of down the line when people stop caring. It also makes more sense from a development stand point...

From a developmental standpoint it makes sense to kill off characters that were tied into, perhaps, the first major consequence choice in the game on top of both being characters that have, thus far, added to the development of the central protagonist and have even provided support at several critical junctions including saving the central protagonist's life? Yeah...that make perfect sense...:rolleyes:

Ugh, as I've said it really seems like most folks here are grasping at whatever they can to prove Carly or Doug's demise because they seem to dislike, or not see the point of, either character. From my standpoint there is plenty of evidence to refute the idea that Carly or Doug will be killed regardless of choice. However, debating that with "Carly/Doug must die" hardliners doesn't seem overly productive.

If they die it certainly doesn't mean I will be outraged and stop playing (as long as it's done in a manner that doesn't seem like a cop-out or scapegoat) however I believe from a purely logical/developmental/and narrative standpoint that they won't. I suppose in less then a week or so we'll find out.

[PuhChewyChomp]

Logic says everyone will die at some point in time. But I could be wrong.

[Cyreen]

Logic says everyone will die at some point in time.

It does tend to work that way.

[JCMcAdams84]

This is so much the debates that were going on when Mass Effect 3 was about to come out! LOL

The number of times I read, "There is no way Tali (or Garrus, or Miranda, ect.) can be important in ME3 cause they can be dead at the end of ME2!" And yet Tali was the difference between getting the Geth and Quarrens to work together, without her it is nearly impossible. (I know Bioware may have a bigger budget but that doesn't mean it is any easier for them from a design standpoint or that they have better people, TellTale has just as talented a group of people working for them I bet and they could do just as much justice to the game)

The point is (As I've already made and as Comixfan has as well) there is no evidence to support the death of Carley/Doug beyond peoples general lack of trust in TellTale or posters ire towards two digital characters. It is more than possible, in fact, to have a possible dead character be pivotal to the story. Also, many of you have given the easiest way to do it!! Just have it be cosmetic and dialog different but the same general story arc and bingo, Carley/Doug can now be the second most important person in Lee's life after Clem with minimal work, lol.

[Hudomonkey]

This is so much the debates that were going on when Mass Effect 3 was about to come out! LOL

The number of times I read, "There is no way Tali (or Garrus, or Miranda, ect.) can be important in ME3 cause they can be dead at the end of ME2!" And yet Tali was the difference between getting the Geth and Quarrens to work together, without her it is nearly impossible. (I know Bioware may have a bigger budget but that doesn't mean it is any easier for them from a design standpoint or that they have better people, TellTale has just as talented a group of people working for them I bet and they could do just as much justice to the game)

The point is (As I've already made and as Comixfan has as well) there is no evidence to support the death of Carley/Doug beyond peoples general lack of trust in TellTale or posters ire towards two digital characters. It is more than possible, in fact, to have a possible dead character be pivotal to the story. Also, many of you have given the easiest way to do it!! Just have it be cosmetic and dialog different but the same general story arc and bingo, Carley/Doug can now be the second most important person in Lee's life after Clem with minimal work, lol.
Yes but in Mass effect 3 most decisions changed one character in one side quest

[thestalkinghead]

Yes but in Mass effect 3 most decisions changed one character in one side quest

and we all know how the lack of difference in the ending of mass effect were so well received ;)

[JCMcAdams84]

and we all know how the lack of difference in the ending of mass effect were so well received ;)

I have the guide to ME3. There were 12 different endings. Four variations based on total readiness points and other factors of three different options. The problem was only three really had any noticeable difference and only 2 of those were seen by any number of people. And now with the free alternate ending they put out it clears some of the stuff people missed because of how quick it is (and because some people are dumb, lol, "oh an arm broke off the citadel, it must have exploded"...huh? That's like saying my toaster isn't plugged in, it must be broken, and almost as bad as Carley not knowing how to change batteries). And as far as the differences in quests there is one little quest you cannot even do if Kelly is dead, yeah it a side quest with little meaning but it's still there and there a bunch of those. If you didn't do the Bringing Down the Sky DLC then you miss out on a bunch of readiness points and a small side quest.

But that's a different topic altogether. My point in bringing that up is to point out that even a small difference is still a difference and means it does matter. From a programing perspective even just having two different possible characters in a scene means a lot, let alone have the scene be different in other ways two.

[thestalkinghead]

I have the guide to ME3. There were 12 different endings. Four variations based on total readiness points and other factors of three different options. The problem was only three really had any noticeable difference and only 2 of those were seen by any number of people. And now with the free alternate ending they put out it clears some of the stuff people missed because of how quick it is (and because some people are dumb, lol, "oh an arm broke off the citadel, it must have exploded"...huh? That's like saying my toaster isn't plugged in, it must be broken, and almost as bad as Carley not knowing how to change batteries). And as far as the differences in quests there is one little quest you cannot even do if Kelly is dead, yeah it a side quest with little meaning but it's still there and there a bunch of those. If you didn't do the Bringing Down the Sky DLC then you miss out on a bunch of readiness points and a small side quest.

But that's a different topic altogether. My point in bringing that up is to point out that even a small difference is still a difference and means it does matter. From a programing perspective even just having two different possible characters in a scene means a lot, let alone have the scene be different in other ways two.

but the thing is, i dont care how hard it is to programme different endings (endings a normal person would actually say was different) i play the game and if it is the same but someone had a different hat on its not different, i want a difference as in, i would watch an ending someone else did and i would say "wow, i didnt know you could go there, and whos that? and what happened to him? that is so different to my game" not "so its the same but you have a blue hat instead of a red one :(" something you could describe as a branching story is what i want

[JCMcAdams84]

but the thing is, i dont care how hard it is to programme different endings (endings a normal person would actually say was different) i play the game and if it is the same but someone had a different hat on its not different, i want a difference as in, i would watch an ending someone else did and i would say "wow, i didnt know you could go there, and whos that? and what happened to him? that is so different to my game" not "so its the same but you have a blue hat instead of a red one :(" something you could describe as a branching story is what i want

Okay, I get that, you want more substantial differences. I'm just used to people saying, "There are no differences at all," and not acknowledging that there are differences. I can agree that if in episode 5 the only difference in cosmetic I'll be a little mad, I want something more by then too. Like Clem or Lee's survival depending on things you did or did not do in earlier episodes or the like.

[TheWaltzingBread]

Casualties have been a big part of TWD, comics, tv series and the comics alike. We thought we would have a long running rivalry between Larry and Lee but look what happened.

storm's coming guys, just dont get too attached to anyone, as they are TellTale's to take away.

That being said, I want Doug to be a part of my group as it sets my save apart from all of my friend's saves, that and we have yet to see any solid benefit picking one over the other.

[Viner16]

Casualties have been a big part of TWD, comics, tv series and the comics alike. We thought we would have a long running rivalry between Larry and Lee but look what happened.

storm's coming guys, just dont get too attached to anyone, as they are TellTale's to take away.

That being said, I want Doug to be a part of my group as it sets my save apart from all of my friend's saves, that and we have yet to see any solid benefit picking one over the other.

Spoilers! Have no idea how to do spoiler tags so SPOILER!
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Ok....
Guess what? Carley/Doug DOES die in Ep3 :eek:
Sorta feels cheap...

[ComixFan]

Spoilers! Have no idea how to do spoiler tags so SPOILER!
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Ok....
Guess what? Carley/Doug DOES die in Ep3 :eek:
Sorta feels cheap...

It was. As I stated previously while I doubted she would I mentioned that I could accept it if said demise did not feel like a writing cop-out. Sadly, it very much did. Given the arrival into the group of Crysta and Omid it's obvious the writers did not wish to continue to have to create two ongoing stories for Carly/Doug.

I sincerely believed they were better then that and stated as much previously. I was, clearly, mistaken. Given this lackluster attempt to emulate the tragic important character losses in Robert Kirkman's series, I doubt I will be continuing to purchase the next episodes.

Again had Carly died with any sense of meaning (even a senseless death can be done with poignancy) I could have moved on, sad at the loss. However I simply can not forgive poor writing. It was the same with Mass Effect 3, i.e. a horrid ending full of plot holes and loose reasoning disguised as dramatic pathos. I received a refund for ME3 but, for TWD, I will consider the first two episodes worth the expense and just move on.

[Ja1862]

Spoilerssssss


Sorry guys but I’m right as usual.


Well, I love how it feels when you can tell something’s going to happen before it does, I knew Telltale would cop-out on this, I knew the choices meant nothing but most of all I knew that some posters would say stuff like “Nah that won’t happen” / “how can you judge the games choices on the first 2 episodes” etc

I feel sorry for the few people within this forum that actually thought Telltale would deliver on this…

[skepticalguy90]

Spoilerssssss


Sorry guys but I’m right as usual.


Well, I love how it feels when you can tell something’s going to happen before it does, I knew Telltale would cop-out on this, I knew the choices meant nothing but most of all I knew that some posters would say stuff like “Nah that won’t happen” / “how can you judge the games choices on the first 2 episodes” etc

I feel sorry for the few people within this forum that actually thought Telltale would deliver on this…

Oh grow up. You didn't "know" anything. It's amusing to say I told you so, but let's just admit, there was no "logical basis" to your claims, you guessed and got lucky.

[ItsMeArmani]

Oh grow up. You didn't "know" anything. It's amusing to say I told you so, but let's just admit, there was no "logical basis" to your claims, you guessed and got lucky.

Exactly.

[Ja1862]

Oh grow up. You didn't "know" anything. It's amusing to say I told you so, but let's just admit, there was no "logical basis" to your claims, you guessed and got lucky.

I'm sorry but here is my original post, explaining why I thought they would die.

Lots of examples for you to enjoy :-)


(Very true a smart person can tell by ep2 that the choice thing is bs, the story pans out exactly the same way just with tiny little dialogue changes.

There is no real choice, they didn't kill Doug/Carly in ep2 because people would be like "What was the point of that choice" so they kept them around but made sure they hardly appeared, hoping people wouldn't be able to tell that they do basically the same thing. Just with different weapons. So they just created Mark (a random guy) to fit their spot.

Now killing them in ep3 makes it look like the choice you made was actually important (or so they think), players are not idiots any person with sense can tell the point was ridiculous since it hasn't/wont play a major part in the story.

Come ep3 the choices will still be the same, nothing changes at all apart from tiny dialogue pieces.

Examples

Leave night/day - nothing happens that changes the story just a tiny different cut scene.

Save Shaun - Dies either way.

Kick duck out - Just one tiny bit of dialogue by Kenny in ep2 doesn't change the story one bit, he will say the same stuff he normally does to keep the story moving.

Save Doug or Carly - both do the exact same thing in ep2 just with different weapons and are hardly in it.

Cut teachers leg of - either way the story pans out exactly the scene apart from the opening cut scene.

Save Larry - Dies either way

Kill the St. John brothers - you can count on everything being the same, maybe just someone saying remember when you killed those guys etc.

Kenny/Lilly - nothing will change, the story will just branch out the same.

This = Choices being pointless, it pretends to be something it's not but any smart person who does a 2nd play through can tell how meaningless they really are. To get real choice within a story they would need to be better developers/bigger team and more time.

The way things are looking for the new Walking Dead game it sounds like that will actually have more choice as you choose to team up with people or kill them, that rite there is more choice then what we are actually given within this game.
Last edited by Ja1862; 08/26/2012 at 09:50 am.)


Is that enough logic for you as I used examples from past episodes to help prove my point on how choices are pointless/ how Doug and Carley are basically the same character on top of being background characters for episode 2, or was it that after all I was saying and guaranteeing they would die like many other posters I/we just got "lucky".

[TheWildcard]

Oh grow up. You didn't "know" anything. It's amusing to say I told you so, but let's just admit, there was no "logical basis" to your claims, you guessed and got lucky.

There were a number of logical reasons they had to die which were brought up in this thread. People just didn't like or listen to these reasons...I actually would of been blown away had they lived through the episode.

[Ja1862]

There were a number of logical reasons they had to die which were brought up in this thread. People just didn't like or listen to these reasons...I actually would of been blown away had they lived through the episode.

Exactly.

[j.em26]

Spoilerssssss


Sorry guys but I’m right as usual.


Well, I love how it feels when you can tell something’s going to happen before it does, I knew Telltale would cop-out on this, I knew the choices meant nothing but most of all I knew that some posters would say stuff like “Nah that won’t happen” / “how can you judge the games choices on the first 2 episodes” etc

I feel sorry for the few people within this forum that actually thought Telltale would deliver on this…

Okay, we get it.
You made some really valid points, your predictions came true.
I don't see how continue posting about how right you turned out to be will help you.

You do realize ever since yesterday, anything you say is essentially no different from rubbing salt on to your enemy's wounds right ?
So just quit it dude, most of us were disappointed and we wanna move on with attachments as well.

[eblocksonian]

I was actually surprised Doug/Carley even survived Episode 2. I pegged them as the ones to die in Episode 2. I was actually a bit surprised they chose a secondary character (Mark) and Larry to die before they did.

[Ja1862]

Okay, we get it.
You made some really valid points, your predictions came true.
I don't see how continue posting about how right you turned out to be will help you.

You do realize ever since yesterday, anything you say is essentially no different from rubbing salt on to your enemy's wounds right ?
So just quit it dude, most of us were disappointed and we wanna move on with attachments as well.



Sorry :-(

[GreenBoy]

i know Carley Dies because she was bitching on Lilly and made her MAD so she shot her. but what did Doug do...?

[Ja1862]

He gave telltale more work to do for each episode.

[NeonBlade]

i know Carley Dies because she was bitching on Lilly and made her MAD so she shot her. but what did Doug do...?

Doug was trying to reason it out with Lilly, calling for calm and evidence. He wasn't confrontational, just being rational.


When Lilly draws the Gun, Doug sees that she's going to shoot Ben and he dives pushes Ben out of the way and gets shot in the back of the head. Much, much better than how it transpired in Carleys scenario. Which was straight up homicide.

[Master of Aeons]

Lily: killing innocents is okay, but a baby is too much.

I still disagree with the "logic" in this thread, but Doug/Carley was succeeded by Darley 2.0. I saved the guy and both survived. Does Omid survive in both choices?

[zillacakes]

Lily: killing innocents is okay, but a baby is too much.

I still disagree with the "logic" in this thread, but Doug/Carley was succeeded by Darley 2.0. I saved the guy and both survived. Does Omid survive in both choices?

Yeah. I saved Christa instead of him and he managed to crawl into the boxcar. (:

[Rambo297]

Ok, by your logic:
1. what about Kenny? He survived from Ep1, through now...
2. Carley/Doug, was at EP 1, and ONLY at beginning and end of ep2, then died in ep 3 (:\)
3. So you think, Ben will die in ep 4...?

[TheWildcard]

Ok, by your logic:
1. what about Kenny? He survived from Ep1, through now...
2. Carley/Doug, was at EP 1, and ONLY at beginning and end of ep2, then died in ep 3 (:\)
3. So you think, Ben will die in ep 4...?

Umm. Try again and express yourself better?