The "friendship" with Lilly is fake.

[jangjangchang]

Kenny has always had my back so I'll have his.

The relationship with Lilly never has you two joking and smiling at each other. She never cares to be your buddy or have your back in times of need.

She sees you as someone she can use. She sees you as a vote. Not Lee.

Side with Kenny he can see you're more then a vote.
You're more then Lee.

You're a friend. Get his back and he'll get your back.

[FarmerJoe]

You're a friend.Get his back and he'll get your back.

hmm,a friend until you disagree and step out of line, only once, and then you're not worth saving anymore.To me that's seems very petty and vindictive.Having to agree with someone 100% of the time for them to even consider you worthy of helping anymore stinks! I don't appreciate being someones little bitch.What kind of a friendship is that?
In the pharmacy(episode 3) Kenny has a gun and he still doesn't help Lee?!

To me, that makes Kenny's friendship the fake one.

[Viser]

What do you mean she doesn't have your back when you need it??

Have you tried siding with her on the meat locker to see who has your back and who doesn't??

[Kiel555]

Yeah....that's what happened to me too. When Kenny says I needed to earn that boat ride or RV ride he means it. Unfortunately, I did not follow Kenny's commands as faithfully as others and stepped out of line now and again. Oh well, I didn't want to get on a boat anyways.

[Wrighty]

You're a friend.Get his back and he'll get your back.

hmm,a friend until you disagree and step out of line, only once, and then you're not worth saving anymore.To me that's seems very petty and vindictive.Having to agree with someone 100% of the time for them to even consider you worthy of helping anymore stinks! I don't appreciate being someones little bitch.What kind of a friendship is that?
In the pharmacy(episode 3) Kenny has a gun and he still doesn't help Lee?!

To me, that makes Kenny's friendship the fake one.

I try to keep my arguments to the fuck Kenny thread but I'll post here once.

Kenny wasn't sure if he was able to save you gun or no gun. And when there are loads of walkers swarming, all using your pistol would do is waste ammo. And I bet most people are angry because they supported Keny until he meat locker, then he was angry at Lee. But I don't blame him, Lees who saved Lary risked his life and risked his family being eaten by the cannibals slowly and painfully for an old guy who treated everyone else like shit and might be dead. . They forced him to kill Larry by himself and shoulder the guilt himself, even if it was the right call.

Also I think moments like Kenny trusts you enough to tell you Duck is bitten (he could have kept quiet, or lied) and when offers to teach you how to use he train, in case he dies, shows how much of a good friend he is.

[Rock114]

Actually, you DON'T have to agree with him 100%. I refused to take the food in Ep2, and I shot the girl in Ep3 when he told me not to. And then? When the door fell on Lee and he called for Kenny, Kenny ran back to me without a moment's hesitation to try and help lift the door off of me. The friendship with Kenny DOES feel more satisying than the one with Lilly, at least I think. Especially because now Kenny is the only original group member left.

And does Kenny tell you about Duck's bite no matter what? The dialouge after changes if he's your friend or not, but I'm not sure about the scene itself.

[SonnyN18]

Actually, you DON'T have to agree with him 100%. I refused to take the food in Ep2, and I shot the girl in Ep3 when he told me not to. And then? When the door fell on Lee and he called for Kenny, Kenny ran back to me without a moment's hesitation to try and help lift the door off of me. The friendship with Kenny DOES feel more satisying than the one with Lilly, at least I think. Especially because now Kenny is the only original group member left.

And does Kenny tell you about Duck's bite no matter what? The dialouge after changes if he's your friend or not, but I'm not sure about the scene itself.

you didn't say if you help killed larry or not. if u help then he helps you in the drug store

[Rock114]

you didn't say if you help killed larry or not. if u help then he helps you in the drug store

Yea, I helped him with Larry. But people say that, no matter what, disagree with him once and he'll try to kill you. I don't always agree with him, and he helped me. So no, you don't have to do what he says all the time. Just proving a point.

[Lin001]

Both are just too extreme. That's why I never trusted'em 100%. And considering that Kenny just lost his family, he'll be pretty much unstable in the next chapters( At least I think so), so I will just look out for me and Clem.

Edit: Chuck seems to be a nice guy, though.

[SonnyN18]

Yea, I helped him with Larry. But people say that, no matter what, disagree with him once and he'll try to kill you. I don't always agree with him, and he helped me. So no, you don't have to do what he says all the time. Just proving a point.

no, what most people say is that if u disagree with him on that one point ( killing larry ) then he'll try to kill you

[Instant Karma]

There's a fine line between not helping someone and killing them. Just because he's not sticking his neck out for you doesn't mean he's trying to kill you, it means you aren't his friend.

[dubesor]

Both aren't friends.

Kenny is an egocentric idiot who turns on you even if you agreed on 99% of the situations and only once didn't help (like KILL someone).

Lilly is wannabe-boss and maniac.

The only people I could consider being good friends in this series are unfortunately all dead or gone. That would be Doug, Carley, Glenn and Mark for me. Screw the rest of the people.

[Rock114]

Actually, you DON'T have to agree with him 100%. I refused to take the food in Ep2, and I shot the girl in Ep3 when he told me not to. And then? When the door fell on Lee and he called for Kenny, Kenny ran back to me without a moment's hesitation to try and help lift the door off of me. The friendship with Kenny DOES feel more satisying than the one with Lilly, at least I think. Especially because now Kenny is the only original group member left.

Yeah. Quoted myself. I feel so cheap.

[Master of Aeons]

Yeah. Quoted myself. I feel so cheap.

*tucks a dollar in your g-string*

[adontimasu]

Bullshit Kenny is your friend. He uses you just as much as Lilly does. If you disagree with Kenny on one solitary thing, he will hold it against you forever, and will never respect you or consider you a friend. Seriously. Don't side with him in the meat-locker and see what happens.

[Cyreen]

I'll quote you too, just so you don't feel so dirty, K?

And does Kenny tell you about Duck's bite no matter what? The dialogue after changes if he's your friend or not, but I'm not sure about the scene itself.

He does, whether he's your friend or not. If Lilly outs Lee's past, Kenny does get a little shirty about honesty (on my Dougie game).

[Rock114]

Ty Cy...but I kind of need money... btw, ty for that dollar master of aeons.

[Master of Aeons]

ty for that dollar master of aeons.

That's "Master"! Now put on something nice and get out on that stage! Before I pop ya one!

[Rock114]

Yes Master! Whatever you say, just don't pull a Lilly on me!

[IndigoHawk]

Kenny is an interesting character. People either think he's an ally or scum based on whether they agree with him at a couple critical points. Disagree with him about the direction of the group (gasp, how dare Lee have his own opinion), and he shows his true colors. Agree with him all the time, and it seems like he has your back.

For me, Kenny lost respect in two instances. First, he helps Duck without even a glance at the other guy or trying to come back. That told me he's looking out for his family, and not capable or willing to help others, including Lee or Clem. That was ok, but it made me realize he was no ally. When Kenny refused to help Lee in the barn, I knew that he was a coward, too. Lilly, who just had her father murdered and looted, came out swinging. She's a fighter, and I was sad she snapped. She may not be Lee's friend, but she didn't freeze up when Lee needed her.

I agree that players can't have the same kind of fake friendship with Lilly that they have with Kenny. Lilly is more honest that she's out for hers while Kenny fools Lee.

However, the people who side with Kenny don't see evidence that he's scum, so for those playthroughs, he's a friend. I hope there's a way for people to never have to disagree with Kenny and get betrayed. (Although I don't know how good a friendship is if it's based on always doing what the other person wants.)

[YamiRaziel]

Kenny has always had my back so I'll have his.

The relationship with Lilly never has you two joking and smiling at each other. She never cares to be your buddy or have your back in times of need.

See shes you as someone she can use. She sees you as a vote. Not Lee.

Side with Kenny he can see you're more then a vote.
You're more then Lee.

You're a friend. Get his back and he'll get your back.

I've had such friends. Thank you but no. A friend does not demand of you to be their bitch. Kenny is an egocentric bastard, who cannot stand any sort of disagreement. Even in your supposed "friendship" Lee's giving way more than he's receiving.
Friendship is a two way thing. True friends never abandon you, even when you're wrong. They don't require you to prove yourself every minute.

The relationship between Lilly and Lee is on entirely different level. They don't need to smile to know they are there for each other. To me that's more than satisfying.

I'll give a simple example. In episode 2, when you're in the house and your group is just about to eat the meat, right after the argument, you have 3 options I think (maybe for with the .... option)
1. Kenny, grab the gun!
2. Lilly, grab a knife!
3. Clementine, run!

I've never tried 3, but I have 1 and 2.
If you shout to Kenny, he is so slow to react that you can even question yourself whether he believes you or not.
If you shout to Lilly, she grabs the knife, no questions about it and is ready to slice Andy's throat before he points a gun to her head.
Real friends do not question you in situations like this one.

[Master of Aeons]

Kenny's stupidity has nothing to do with how good a friend someone is. I could tell my best friend, "Hand me the margarine." If he grabs the butter first, I can't say he's a bad friend. He's just stupid.

The other obvious counterpoint is you tell two friends to help you kill someone. One says, "Kill? Are you serious?" and the other one says, "Don't have to tell me twice. I brought my own weapons!" Lily's crazy, man.

[YamiRaziel]

Kenny's stupidity has nothing to do with how good a friend someone is. I could tell my best friend, "Hand me the margarine." If he grabs the butter first, I can't say he's a bad friend. He's just stupid.

The other obvious counterpoint is you tell two friends to help you kill someone. One says, "Kill? Are you serious?" and the other one says, "Don't have to tell me twice. I brought my own weapons!" Lily's crazy, man.

Lilly is not crazy. She wasn't even slightly unstable in that example. Kenny does not confuse his weapon, so no I'm not talking about stupidity. It's his inability to listen to anything but his own voice. He would react fast had he seen Mark with his own eyes but he just doesn't believe Lee enough.
Lilly however is more honest and open person. She's loyal to her own and she doesn't need Lee to tell her twice.
We are not talking about killing people here, but about survival and danger. If Lee screams "Lilly, shoot Clem" she won't, so your "I brought my own weapons" argument is a bit invalid.
As a whole Lilly is more open and honest person. If she's upset and offended, she will yell and storm around until she lets it all out. She doesn't hold grudges.
Kenny is however a guy that will hold all against you. If you offend him or disappoint him, he'll just give you "The Look" and you can be sure he'll bring it and try to punish you in the worst possible moment. He's spiteful, egocentric coward.
Lilly, of course, is in a very fragile state of mind at the moment. However, this is only a week since Kenny murdered her dad in front of her eyes.

[Master of Aeons]

So then by your breakdown of the scene, it's not friendship or intelligence that is the factor in the reaction time - it's how receptive they are to orders.

[YamiRaziel]

So then by your breakdown of the scene, it's not friendship or intelligence that is the factor in the reaction time - it's how receptive they are to orders.

More like whether you need proof in order to believe a friend.

[Gomu]

What I find disturbing about Kenny is reaction to Lee in the scene at the dinner table. Lee comes in screaming all sorts of shit and Kenny just sits there as if he didn't have any suspicions about the brothers in the first place.

[Cyreen]

Lilly is an egocentric bitch, who cannot stand any sort of disagreement. Even in your supposed "friendship" Lee's giving way more than he's receiving. True friends never abandon you and they don't require you to follow orders.

On the upside, she's gone and not worth discussing.

[FarmerJoe]

I try to keep my arguments to the fuck Kenny thread but I'll post here once.

Kenny wasn't sure if he was able to save you gun or no gun. And when there are loads of walkers swarming, all using your pistol would do is waste ammo. And I bet most people are angry because they supported Kenny until he meat locker, then he was angry at Lee. But I don't blame him, Lees who saved Lary risked his life and risked his family being eaten by the cannibals slowly and painfully for an old guy who treated everyone else like shit and might be dead. . They forced him to kill Larry by himself and shoulder the guilt himself, even if it was the right call.

Also I think moments like Kenny trusts you enough to tell you Duck is bitten (he could have kept quiet, or lied) and when offers to teach you how to use he train, in case he dies, shows how much of a good friend he is.

Doesn't the fact that Kenny saves you if you have previously done as he wanted invalidate the 'Kenny wasn't sure if he was able to save you gun or no gun'. Two or three bullets would of cleared the walkers on top of Lee but Kenny just stands there watching when Lee pleads for him to help.If the danger was too great or imminent for him why doesn't he just escape instead of just standing there observing Lee's struggles,to me that is a clear sign of his vindictive nature.
He resents someone because they make him shoulder the guilt of killing Larry himself?what a big cry baby.

As for Kenny not hiding the truth and telling Lee that Duck is bitten I'd say that Katjaa was the big influence there, as later events show. Is teaching Lee and Omid how to drive the train such a generous and unselfish act?what kind of a man would keep quite about information he holds that could keep fellow survivors safe, including a 8 year girl, if anything happened to him.

@Rock114
Did Kenny respect,as a good friend, your two differences of opinion or was he ready with the snide remarks and the inability to not point out what you did was the wrong choice and his should of been the right way to go?

To me Kenny gets a lot more out of that friendship and I cant shake the feeling that Lee is being used.For me Kenny is a weak,vindictive,impulsive and hypocritical man with the taint of cowardice. I will recognize that he loves his family deeply and he did finally admit his weakness in not even trying to save Shawn. I'd say that the friendship with Lilly is more honest and feels a lot less deceptive than Kenny's.

Scoff if you will but out of all the group members I'd rate Doug as the best friendship.To me he has the most compassionate and bravest heart than all of them.He also made me laugh.He would,very likely, be the one to give his life to save yours.Carley is good too but she had to be persuaded by Glenn and Lee to help Irene and she was all "let's go guys" when they reached the door and heard her screaming.Doug would of had no hesitation in saving a fellow survivor.I'm also not that keen on the fact that she throws herself on every type of Lee including those who told her that they didn't trust her.

[Rock114]

He thought I was damn stupid when I put the girl out of her misery. I put both our lives in unecessary danger, decreasing our chances of getting out alive. From a survival standpoint what I did was dumb, and that's Kenny's standpoint. Yet, when I needed it, he still came back to help the door off of me. I don't need him to agree with everything I do, but as long as he watches my back he's cool in my book.

I don't understand how making him shoulder the guilt makes him a "cry baby". He just killed what could have been a human being, right in front of said human being's daughter, in a very violent and messy way. He didn't like making sure Larry didn't get up. If he thought Larry could have been saved, he wouldn't have done it. He thought he saved everyone. If everyone you knew hated and resented you for saving their lives, and made you out to be the bad guy just so they didn't feel guilty, wouldn't you be more than a little angry? Because that's what Kenny thinks happened. He thinks that he, and may actually have, saved everyone.

[Web Head]

If you are a fan of Lilly then you are noobs!!

[Rock114]

False. Being a fan of Lilly =/= noob. She is a great, well written character with an excellent voice actress. It's just that some of us agree with Kenny during arguments because what he says makes sense to us, while what Lilly says makes sense to other people.

[Deventh]

I still prefer Lilly though. I really like her character.

[FarmerJoe]

False. Being a fan of Lilly =/= noob. She is a great, well written character with an excellent voice actress. It's just that some of us agree with Kenny during arguments because what he says makes sense to us, while what Lilly says makes sense to other people.

Absolutely Rock114 :)
I think it's a great testament to Telltale's writing how people have their preferred characters and can see differences in them that may appeal to them but may repel others.That's why the characters have a feeling of authenticity to me, and it's something I greatly appreciate.

[Xarne]

See how friendly Kenny is when your opinions differ. Friends stick with you, regardless.
You are the bodyguard to Kenny's family first and a friend only if you follow him without question, a henchman if you will.

[YamiRaziel]

Lilly is an egocentric bitch, who cannot stand any sort of disagreement. Even in your supposed "friendship" Lee's giving way more than he's receiving. True friends never abandon you and they don't require you to follow orders.

On the upside, she's gone and not worth discussing.

Don't discuss then.

Rock114, if he was really that shining white knight that did the right thing, why is he always expecting everyone to praise him. He's too immature to understand that everybody will hate him for what he did and there will be no forgiveness. If he swallowed it up like a man, he could've redeemed to some extent in my eyes...
I'm sure he could've lightened up the time spent in ep. 3 and that would make a change. Tough decisions are difficult, but that doesn't mean you have to destroy an entire group just because you can't admit you might've been wrong.

[Cyreen]

Don't discuss then.

Really Yami, you need to get a new girlfriend. You're boring.

[YamiRaziel]

Really Yami, you need to get a new girlfriend. You're boring.

and you need to mind your own business. Stop telling people what we should do or discuss, Kenny. I personally don't care.

[Xarne]

However, the people who side with Kenny don't see evidence that he's scum, so for those playthroughs, he's a friend. I hope there's a way for people to never have to disagree with Kenny and get betrayed. (Although I don't know how good a friendship is if it's based on always doing what the other person wants.)

I think that's catch-22 people have with him: He's cool as long as you do everything he says. It actually says more about the player's loyalty than Kenny's character imo. In defense of the 'Team-Kenny's out there, that should be their 'reward': Kenny will bring you with him to the boat in payment for your blind loyalty to all the dirty things he's done to get there.
If after siding with him no matter, he still betrayed you? nah that would not be cool.

[Cyreen]

and you need to mind your own business. Stop telling people what we should do or discuss, Kenny. I personally don't care.

I'm sorry. Go back to waxing poetic over a fictional character. :rolleyes:

*yawn*

[Rock114]

Yeah, making Kenny betray you even if you agree on EVERYTHING with him would be a poor choice on the part of the devs. Then there'd be no point, because he'll screw you no matter what...

They could do what they did with Lilly. Side with her and you and her are cool, but she snaps and does something horrible to someone else. If Lilly had stayed, no doubt she would have backed and supported Lee had he forgiven her for what she did. They could have Kenny freak out and try to murder Ben, and depending on if you stop him or do nothing could be like the RV scenario with Lilly. The person you back is fine and dandy with you, but they can still do terrible things to other people.

[Xarne]

Yeah, making Kenny betray you even if you agree on EVERYTHING with him would be a poor choice on the part of the devs. Then there'd be no point, because he'll screw you no matter what...

They could do what they did with Lilly. Side with her and you and her are cool, but she snaps and does something horrible to someone else. If Lilly had stayed, no doubt she would have backed and supported Lee had he forgiven her for what she did. They could have Kenny freak out and try to murder Ben, and depending on if you stop him or do nothing could be like the RV scenario with Lilly. The person you back is fine and dandy with you, but they can still do terrible things to other people.

whoa, you bring up a good point: What if you stop Kenny from his revenge on Ben? That could surely be the deal breaker: you stopping a man from getting to the killer of his family.

[Cyreen]

And what's that, speculation? Fanfiction?

[Rock114]

whoa, you bring up a good point: What if you stop Kenny from his revenge on Ben? That could surely be the deal breaker: you stopping a man from getting to the killer of his family.

It doesn't have to be Ben, I was just using him as an example. He's the most likely candidate for this too. It would come down to you and your morals: Is it really right to let a scared kid die because he made a mistake? Even though it was a huge one?

It could be a situation with anyone else. Omid and his leg maybe. Kenny DOES say in the Ep4 preview that they should leave him, maybe he and Christa fight because she wants to take Omid with them.

[YamiRaziel]

I'm sorry, Cyreen, but you're not worth my time anymore. I'm not interested in your feminist shit.

Rock114, don't expect any reward for your choices. You should be siding with Kenny because you believe that is the right thing to do, not because you'll be rewarded. The boat he has promised you will most likely be missing, destroyed or something else that prevents you from sailing away with it. Almost nothing goes according to plans in ZA. In this one I'm do not agree with Chuck. Plans are not always good. Trying too hard to achieve a plan is what gets you killed at the end of the day.

Is it really right to let a scared kid die because he made a mistake? Even though it was a huge one?

Kenny siders should say yes because that's the rational thing to do. There's a threat and you remove it...

[Cyreen]

I'm sorry, Cyreen, but you're not worth my time anymore. I'm not interested in your feminist shit.

Awesome, by all means go back to your cave, little dinosaur.

[Natalie1213]

Although Kenny is a hypocrite for various reasons, especially that whether helping him kill Larry or not is what determines your friendship, I'd much rather him than Lilly. Larry was a dick anyways, so I didn't mind killing him in my second playthrough. Kenny's my bro right now and it's pretty great. Despite whether you're nice to Lilly or not, she's never your friend and still shoots Carley/Doug and tries to justify herself using Lee's past. I personally hate Lilly. Kenny is still a hypocrite, though. They're not much better than each other, just Kenny actually becomes your bro and Lilly always stays/goes back to being a bitch to you.

They're both very interesting and fantastic characters, whether you like them or not. So it's different for each person. That's what I love about the TWD cast.

[YamiRaziel]

Although Kenny is a hypocrite for various reasons, especially that whether helping him kill Larry or not is what determines your friendship, I'd much rather him than Lilly. Larry was a dick anyways, so I didn't mind killing him in my second playthrough. Kenny's my bro right now and it's pretty great. Despite whether you're nice to Lilly or not, she's never your friend and still shoots Carley/Doug and tries to justify herself using Lee's past. I personally hate Lilly. Kenny is still a hypocrite, though. They're not much better than each other, just Kenny actually becomes your bro and Lilly always stays/goes back to being a bitch to you.

They're both very interesting and fantastic characters, whether you like them or not. So it's different for each person. That's what I love about the TWD cast.

Kiel555 mentioned that in his playthrough that is not even a "100% pro Lilly" she doesn't use his past against him. So apparently, she doesn't always do that.

[Xarne]

It doesn't have to be Ben, I was just using him as an example. He's the most likely candidate for this too. It would come down to you and your morals: Is it really right to let a scared kid die because he made a mistake? Even though it was a huge one?

It could be a situation with anyone else. Omid and his leg maybe. Kenny DOES say in the Ep4 preview that they should leave him, maybe he and Christa fight because she wants to take Omid with them.

Im just saying if there was anything that could/would break a totally loyal Kenny, that would be it

[Freeze]

Lilly in my opinion is exactly like Shane from the the TV show. The craziness that ensues after they lose Larry via salt lick & Lori and Carl when Rick returns. The drive for alpha dog status and willingness to let the world burn as long as they can protect theirs. Even though Lily can be sweet ain't nothing stopping her from booting your ass out of the RV and leaving you so yeah.

Team Kenny I guess.

[rachellouise85]

I don't think many of them have really been what you would call friends, the majority are just people who have been forced together by the ZA. If they had been meeting in normal circumstances, they would probably only talk to each other maybe once or something.

[YamiRaziel]

Lilly in my opinion is exactly like Shane from the the TV show. The craziness that ensues after they lose Larry via salt lick & Lori and Carl when Rick returns. The drive for alpha dog status and willingness to let the world burn as long as they can protect theirs. Even though Lily can be sweet ain't nothing stopping her from booting your ass out of the RV and leaving you so yeah.

Team Kenny I guess.

I've already commented on this exact statement once, but I will do it one more time. How can you say that Lilly is like Shane? Lilly tries to do things for the entire group, even though she might be wrong in your eyes that doesn't mean she's doing it for somebody else. Shane kills a man just so he can save his own skin and is ready to kill his own best friend just so he can steal his wife. I don't see any resemblance...

[Deventh]

Lilly is an egocentric bitch, who cannot stand any sort of disagreement. Even in your supposed "friendship" Lee's giving way more than he's receiving. True friends never abandon you and they don't require you to follow orders.

On the upside, she's gone and not worth discussing.
I think she had it pretty rough and i feel really bad for her. If you see from episode 1 to episode 3 she changes a lot and it's fact. She is not a bitch, she changed after her father died. I hope we see her again she is really a great character.

[Cyreen]

I think she had it pretty rough and i feel really bad for her.

I really don't hate Lilly, she is after all a fictional character. I was merely flipping the coin for her cyber-boyfriend-wannabe.

[Freeze]

I've already commented on this exact statement once, but I will do it one more time. How can you say that Lilly is like Shane? Lilly tries to do things for the entire group, even though she might be wrong in your eyes that doesn't mean she's doing it for somebody else. Shane kills a man just so he can save his own skin and is ready to kill his own best friend just so he can steal his wife. I don't see any resemblance...

I didn't read the last one seeing as when it comes to threads about Lilly every avid user of this forum tries to avoid starting a stupid argument with your stubbornness and insane infatuation with Lilly. Yeah we're suppose to care about the characters but you take this shit way to far. I instantly regret posting here , I should've known you were lurking around trying to "protect" Lilly. I guess it's time for me to find a new thread.

[Rock114]

I'm sorry, Cyreen, but you're not worth my time anymore. I'm not interested in your feminist shit.

Rock114, don't expect any reward for your choices. You should be siding with Kenny because you believe that is the right thing to do, not because you'll be rewarded. The boat he has promised you will most likely be missing, destroyed or something else that prevents you from sailing away with it. Almost nothing goes according to plans in ZA. In this one I'm do not agree with Chuck. Plans are not always good. Trying too hard to achieve a plan is what gets you killed at the end of the day.



Kenny siders should say yes because that's the rational thing to do. There's a threat and you remove it...

That's just it, I AM siding with Kenny (for the most part, at least) because I think that he's right. I have a sinking feeling that the boat won't be there, but it's our only plan. Not having a plan at all is more likely to get you killed IMO. With a plan you have a goal to strive toward, objectives to achieve, a reason to go on. I'd rather take a slim chance than wander the Georgia wilderness aimlessly, hoping for some form of salvation.

I'd rather be with Doug or Carley though. They ahve your back no matter what...or better yet Doug AND Carley. Then we'd never fail.

[Deventh]

I didn't read the last one seeing as when it comes to threads about Lilly every avid user of this forum tries to avoid starting a stupid argument with your stubbornness and insane infatuation with Lilly. Yeah we're suppose to care about the characters but you take this shit way to far. I instantly regret posting here , I should've known you were lurking around trying to "protect" Lilly. I guess it's time for me to find a new thread.
Well, Yami is right though. I don't see any resemblance either.

[Cyreen]

Well, Yami is right though. I don't see any resemblance either.

Yeah, sounds like Shane had more reason to kill than Lilly did.

[Deventh]

Yeah, sounds like Shane had more reason to kill than Lilly did.
Lol... Lilly was in such a shock after the events that happened with her father and the farm as a whole. I don't like what she did, but i can't really be mad at her either. It was just a real breakdown.
Shane killed since he can't accept a no.

[Snake Liquid]

I've already commented on this exact statement once, but I will do it one more time. How can you say that Lilly is like Shane? Lilly tries to do things for the entire group, even though she might be wrong in your eyes that doesn't mean she's doing it for somebody else. Shane kills a man just so he can save his own skin and is ready to kill his own best friend just so he can steal his wife. I don't see any resemblance...

Actually, Shane, since we are obviously comparing Lilly to a very alternate reality Shane than the one that actually is still currently existing in her reality (who, by the way, was just a psychopath since the start of the apocalypse, desperately holding on to the notion that the government was going to save them all if they just sat around with their thumbs up their asses), has some similarities and major differences from Lilly.

Shane kills Otis not just for himself (that is a big part of it), but so that he can bring those supplies back and save Carl. If Shane didn't sacrifice Otis, the both of them would have assuredly died and then Carl would have died. Three people would be gone if not for his decision. Otis was morbidly obese and could barely run, and Shane was injured. The walkers would catch up to them at any point. Shane had already told Otis to take the supplies and go on without him, but Otis refused to leave him behind. Shane did what he did because it was the only option left to him, not just because he wanted to murder someone.

As far as not keeping the entire group safe... that's ALL Shane really did. Yes it's out of his insane infatuation with Lori, but what he does keeps everyone safe. He starts the slaughter of the walkers in the barn because that was a massive danger to the entire group. He wants to kill Randall because he was a dangerous person who attacked members of his group. If he escaped, Randall knew exactly where they were and could lead his people back and potentially rape, pillage and kill everyone in the group.

If ANYTHING, Shane is a more sane individual than Lilly ever was. Especially considering who Lilly goes on to side with and the atrocities she further commits, she is a MUCH bigger monster than Shane could ever have hoped to be in his wildest dreams. That includes his attempted murder of Rick!

Lilly became paranoid and in doing so, straight up murdered one of the group members. No rational discussion. No reasoning with her. She pulled the gun out, and for me, shot Carley out of speculation and no facts what so ever to reach that conclusion that Carley was the "traitor" of the group just because she had a mental break.

THEN, she has the gull to try and justify her actions because I'm a murderer. After I tried to help save her father who was nothing but an overt asshole to me, and tried to reason with them when they thought Duck was bitten.

Lilly's an unstable powder keg. I'm glad she's no longer with my group and I'll never regret leaving her on the side of the road.

[YamiRaziel]

I didn't read the last one seeing as when it comes to threads about Lilly every avid user of this forum tries to avoid starting a stupid argument with your stubbornness and insane infatuation with Lilly. Yeah we're suppose to care about the characters but you take this shit way to far. I instantly regret posting here , I should've known you were lurking around trying to "protect" Lilly. I guess it's time for me to find a new thread.

You can find another forum if you want. I couldn't care less. If you're not here to discuss, why post in the first place?

Snake Liquid, yeah I totally forgot about the supplies. Thanks for bringing that up. Well, in that case you can find some similarities with TV Shane maybe but not with comic book Shane. However, Shane's attempt at murdering Rick was quite different from Lilly's shot at Ben/Carley. I mean her father was brutally murdered a week ago, while Shane hadn't really lost anything. I mean Lori was never truly his in the first place and she's still safe and sound.

I do not agree with your statement about Lilly and the Governor. The Governor is doing a really great job in manipulating people. There are a lot of good and innocent people in his little town. Lilly joining him does not make her a bad person. Lilly defending her people doesn't make her a bad person. While shooting at Lori could be perceived as bad if you're looking it from Rick's perspective, she's still just defending her own. When she realizes what is really going on, she truly regrets it and puts an end to the Governor. I don't think that turns her into a monster. I actually believe that's the redeeming part of her story.

[Rock114]

I know, Lilly shoots the governor right in the head! She seems to have a talent for headshots...

[Xarne]

speaking of the Gov, I just finished Rise of the Governor...that is a crazy read

[Kiel555]

speaking of the Gov, I just finished Rise of the Governor...that is a crazy read

Same here. All I'll say is that was some story and damn. Can hardly wait to continue on with Road to Woodbury next month.

[Snake Liquid]

Snake Liquid, yeah I totally forgot about the supplies. Thanks for bringing that up. Well, in that case you can find some similarities with TV Shane maybe but not with comic book Shane. However, Shane's attempt at murdering Rick was quite different from Lilly's shot at Ben/Carley. I mean her father was brutally murdered a week ago, while Shane hadn't really lost anything. I mean Lori was never truly his in the first place and she's still safe and sound.

Season 2 spoilers: That may be true, but the emotional pain he had because of Lori could be just as severe. Remember, Shane truly thought Rick was dead. In the heat of the moment, in that hospital, Shane thought Rick died. Imagine, to start, the pain you'd feel if your best friend for potentially 15+ years, depending on how old those two characters really are, just died for something you blame yourself for happening in the first place. How would you be feeling? His first instinct was to take his best friend's wife and son to where he thought was safety in Atlanta, with absolutely no thought of himself.

The way Lori acted around him in the TV show, with a carried on relationship rather than the one time mistake it was in the comic, expressing actions that implied deep emotional connections, combined with their past of being so close with her, him and Rick. Then, when Rick comes back, Lori completely, and angrily shuts him out of her life. That kind of emotional pain is intense and really fractured the kind of person Shane was. Only then, at the very end, for Lori to admit to Shane that there truly were intense feelings, but for her to not even say that there is no hope for them to have a relationship. It finally just causes him to crack, much like the pain of Lilly's fathers death caused her to crack.

If Lee's story about killing the man his wife was sleeping with is fully true, then our main protagonist in the game knows better than ever how in an emotional break, you can do things you'd normally never do. Shane's stress of being totally alone, for being with three people that he loves more than anything but to be in such an awkward position that you can't be with any of them was just too much for him. Shane loved Rick. They were best friends since they were in high school. He loved Lori, then when the world went to hell and it was the only good thing left. He loved Carl, and would do and did anything for him. Then Rick comes back and he has none of them because of the way he feels about all of them.

I don't know. Shane was without a doubt the most complex and interesting character in the TV show. I have a lot of opinions about him, and none of them are that he was an evil, soulless monster. Not that Lilly is, I just still have my first impression of her from the comic, so that kind of clouds my opinion.

I do not agree with your statement about Lilly and the Governor. [spoiler]The Governor is doing a really great job in manipulating people. There are a lot of good and innocent people in his little town. Lilly joining him does not make her a bad person. Lilly defending her people doesn't make her a bad person. While shooting at Lori could be perceived as bad if you're looking it from Rick's perspective, she's still just defending her own. When she realizes what is really going on, she truly regrets it and puts an end to the Governor. I don't think that turns her into a monster. I actually believe that's the redeeming part of her story.

Fair enough. That's a very good point, plus I forgot about what all happens to the Governor thanks to Michonne. From Woodbury's perspective, Ricks group would appear a vicious monsters so it's understandable, but still just a bad situation.

[Kiel555]

Shane...what a tragedy. Why why why did he not just team up with Andrea and leave the group as planned? She even wanted to go with him and leave the group as well. Instead he opts to stay and goes mad with the difficulties inherent in trying to steal another man's wife. I don't see any resemblance of Shane's story to that of Lilly's.

I still remember the howl from angry players who sided with Kenny on every single thing except the meat locker. They complained that Kenny acted as if Lee had never sided with him on anything since they first met. That was a bummer but didn't really affect me since I disagreed with Kenny often and can't say we were ever friends.

Lilly on the other hand I did hate and she hated me as well. I can identify with many of the comments members have posted regarding Lilly. But in trying to look out for the people in my group a friendship developed between Lee and Lilly.

I don't have the benefit of having played multiple games to see what happens if I chose all the other options that are available. In my one playthrough, the call was made to side with Lilly. She turned out to be a really great friend even surpassing Carley. Even the last moments with her were bittersweet. I thought it was a terrific end to that part of the story when she was not sure if Lee would accept but she asked him to go with her in the RV. When Lee accepted she seemed happy to me.

Many know what happens to Lilly later on for those who have read the comics. How she becomes trapped. I've not read the comics but I still like to think that in those lonely moments Lilly will not focus on everyone who betrayed her but rather on Lee, her friend, who cared for her and wanted to go with her.

I know others have sided with Kenny and think that he is a swell guy. Be that as it may, I hope your friendship turns out as good as the one I have with Lilly.

[FarmerJoe]

Sorry but I haven't seen the TV show so I can only judge Shane by the comics.Personally while I detest any type of murder I can understand someone snapping after a family member has died, especially in a horrific way, more than I can someone who wants to murder a friend because he wants the friends wife for himself?!
For me Lee's murder also shows a lack of control.He mentions he already knew about the affair before the murder so surely it isn't a complete shock for him.Did he deliberately go looking for the senator or did he happen to walk in on them? His bio by Telltales says he claimed self defence but the state thought otherwise,surely that meant his testimony and the evidence for his version of the event must of been pretty weak.Also a broken relationship has the chance to be salvaged a dead family member or friend cannot,there's no hope or a return to how things were for the latter.

I didn't agree with Larry deciding to perform his own delayed act of capital punishment but I can understand his opinion,on a complete stranger,more than I do Carley's "I don't care you're a murderer, frankly that's a useful skill to have"?! hmm,somewhat ironic don't you think.

As for Lilly and the Governor it's shown that she's absoluety devastated when she sees what he has tricked her into doing and thus she is the one to turn on him and end his evil.She also then takes control of her fellow survivors and tries to lead them to safety.So for me she isn't some kind of psychopathic she-devil who is devoid of any emotions. She made a mistake just as Lee did, just because I care less or don't know the victim doesn't lessen the crime.

I completely understand why Telltale will probably keep the murder ambiguous.How would people take it if the Lee they've been playing,for all this time,set out deliberately to kill a man for revenge?

[YamiRaziel]

Snake Liquid, I agree with you man. I hadn't really thought much about Shane but you do make some really good points.
I think that Shane is one of the aspects where the TV show is superior to the comic book. Much better developed and interesting.
We should make a Shane thread in the forum :p

I absolutely agree with Kiel555 and FarmerJoe as well. Great posts you three, I don't think there is much I can add for now.

[Xarne]

Shane was seedy. Even if he assumed Rick dead, you dont take over your best friend's wife and assume head of his family- but it was all his actions after Rick came back that says the most about his inner self. He secretly hated Rick for coming back and made everything between them a tug of war after that. I wont even go into Lori.

[Kiel555]

Sorry but I haven't seen the TV show so I can only judge Shane by the comics.Personally while I detest any type of murder I can understand someone snapping after a family member has died, especially in a horrific way, more than I can someone who wants to murder a friend because he wants the friends wife for himself?!
For me Lee's murder also shows a lack of control.He mentions he already knew about the affair before the murder so surely it isn't a complete shock for him.Did he deliberately go looking for the senator or did he happen to walk in on them? His bio by Telltales says he claimed self defence but the state thought otherwise,surely that meant his testimony and the evidence for his version of the event must of been pretty weak.Also a broken relationship has the chance to be salvaged a dead family member or friend cannot,there's no hope or a return to how things were for the latter.

I didn't agree with Larry deciding to perform his own delayed act of capital punishment but I can understand his opinion,on a complete stranger,more than I do Carley's "I don't care you're a murderer, frankly that's a useful skill to have"?! hmm,somewhat ironic don't you think.

As for Lilly and the Governor it's shown that she's absoluety devastated when she sees what he has tricked her into doing and thus she is the one to turn on him and end his evil.She also then takes control of her fellow survivors and tries to lead them to safety.So for me she isn't some kind of psychopathic she-devil who is devoid of any emotions. She made a mistake just as Lee did, just because I care less or don't know the victim doesn't lessen the crime.

I completely understand why Telltale will probably keep the murder ambiguous.How would people take it if the Lee they've been playing,for all this time,set out deliberately to kill a man for revenge?

Nice post.

How do you think Lee's dream fits into all this? From his dream, which is a dream so may not be reliable, it seemed that he and his wife were having a nice evening (Like they both had a glass of wine in their hands and were laughing over something) then there is the sound of breaking window and Lee's wife screams....

I have no idea what happened but I believe veteran cops have good instincts and the one driving Lee to prison concluded that Lee "didn't do it" (murder the senator).

[FarmerJoe]

Nice post.

How do you think Lee's dream fits into all this? From his dream, which is a dream so may not be reliable, it seemed that he and his wife were having a nice evening (Like they both had a glass of wine in their hands and were laughing over something) then there is the sound of breaking window and Lee's wife screams....

I have no idea what happened but I believe veteran cops have good instincts and the one driving Lee to prison concluded that Lee "didn't do it" (murder the senator).

I'm still rather undecided with Lee's murder.It's still a mystery for me.
Is Lee's wife having a drink with Lee or is it the senator?Is she telling the senator that she loves him and it's Lee breaking in to attack her lover?
I don't remember hearing a male voice in the dream,do we hear Lee's voice?

[Kiel555]

I'm still rather undecided with Lee's murder.It's still a mystery for me.
Is Lee's wife having a drink with Lee or is it the senator?Is she telling the senator that she loves him and it's Lee breaking in to attack her lover?
I don't remember hearing a male voice in the dream,do we hear Lee's voice?

No male voices. I was thinking that because Lee could hear her talking clearly..maybe up close...that he was nearby not at the window listening.. then Lee is frowning as she tells someone she loves them...

But there is so little to go from that I just don't know. I'd like hope for the best but the car ride to prison puts a damper on those hopes.

[Rock114]

Well, I think the cop driving Lee to prison was just poking fun at him. He mentions that everyone else he drives up to the prison always says "I didn't do it!" so he just figured Lee was about to say the same thing and decided to have a little fun with him. I'm fairly certain that Lee was guilty, but in more of a "crime of passion" sense than a premeditated one. I'd truly hate to find out that Lee didn't actually do it, because that pretty much nullifies any aspect of the redemption part of his story.

[FarmerJoe]

No male voices. I was thinking that because Lee could hear her talking clearly..maybe up close...that he was nearby not at the window listening.. then Lee is frowning as she tells someone she loves them...

But there is so little to go from that I just don't know. I'd like hope for the best but the car ride to prison puts a damper on those hopes.

So you think that the three of them were in the same room.Which means Lee's wife turns to her lover and tells him "I love you,baby" right in front of Lee and then follows it with a laugh... Ouch. That must mean that the glass smashing must be Lee throwing the senator through the window :p Poor Lee,what a verbal kick to the nuts!!!

[Kiel555]

So you think that the three of them were in the same room.Which means Lee's wife turns to her lover and tells him "I love you,baby" right in front of Lee and then follows it with a laugh... Ouch. That must mean that the glass smashing must be Lee throwing the senator through the window :p Poor Lee,what a verbal kick to the nuts!!!

Yeah..I'm all confused. Would that be considered self defense by Lee:D

[YamiRaziel]

I do support Rock114 on this one. I believe Lee is guilty and passion or not, he is just as much murderer as Lilly is. The reasons may be different, the motivation different but a murder is a murder.
I do like the redemption aspect of Lee's story. It does bring a lot.

As for the dream, I don't have the slightest idea of what exactly happens. Plus, dreams are not always memories. It could be his own twisted version of what happened. It could be his own wish of what should've happened being destroyed by what actually happened :p

[Master of Aeons]

I'm still rather undecided with Lee's murder.It's still a mystery for me.
Is Lee's wife having a drink with Lee or is it the senator?Is she telling the senator that she loves him and it's Lee breaking in to attack her lover?
I don't remember hearing a male voice in the dream,do we hear Lee's voice?

http://youtu.be/pfYV5b0N0tA is a video of the dream, if you want to review.

[ommmnomnomnom]

I cant wait for the decision who goes on the boat and who stays...its going to get messy!

[thestalkinghead]

Sorry but I haven't seen the TV show so I can only judge Shane by the comics.Personally while I detest any type of murder I can understand someone snapping after a family member has died, especially in a horrific way, more than I can someone who wants to murder a friend because he wants the friends wife for himself?!
For me Lee's murder also shows a lack of control.He mentions he already knew about the affair before the murder so surely it isn't a complete shock for him.Did he deliberately go looking for the senator or did he happen to walk in on them? His bio by Telltales says he claimed self defence but the state thought otherwise,surely that meant his testimony and the evidence for his version of the event must of been pretty weak.Also a broken relationship has the chance to be salvaged a dead family member or friend cannot,there's no hope or a return to how things were for the latter.

I didn't agree with Larry deciding to perform his own delayed act of capital punishment but I can understand his opinion,on a complete stranger,more than I do Carley's "I don't care you're a murderer, frankly that's a useful skill to have"?! hmm,somewhat ironic don't you think.

As for Lilly and the Governor it's shown that she's absoluety devastated when she sees what he has tricked her into doing and thus she is the one to turn on him and end his evil.She also then takes control of her fellow survivors and tries to lead them to safety.So for me she isn't some kind of psychopathic she-devil who is devoid of any emotions. She made a mistake just as Lee did, just because I care less or don't know the victim doesn't lessen the crime.

I completely understand why Telltale will probably keep the murder ambiguous.How would people take it if the Lee they've been playing,for all this time,set out deliberately to kill a man for revenge?

i can see them keeping it ambiguous, but it would annoy me a bit, i never saw any of TWD game as a redemption story i just figured either he didn't do it or it was an accident, i know some people saw it the complete opposite and think he is a murderer seeking redemption, but i saw it more of a "out of the frying pan, into the fire" sort of situation.

but if it did turn out that Lee was a psychopath and he murdered the senator for the pure satisfaction of gruesomely murdering the guy that slept with his wife, and he figured having a child around would be a good tactical shield in a number of scenarios (including a social shield) , i think i would just want lee to die or at least suffer as much as possible

[DreadMagus]

I know, Lilly shoots the governor right in the head! She seems to have a talent for headshots...

Which explains why she's so good at surviving a ZA.

I think, in the end, the last two survivors will be Lilly and Carl... and well... I have this theory that Carl is really the current incarnation of Death... so nothing short of Carl will stop her.

[Rock114]

Which explains why she's so good at surviving a ZA.

I think, in the end, the last two survivors will be Lilly and Carl... and well... I have this theory that Carl is really the current incarnation of Death... so nothing short of Carl will stop her.

Ben's body count is far larger.

-His entire class
-half of Lee's group

That's not to say Carl won't take that title from Ben's cold, undead hands though...

[DreadMagus]

That's what I'm sayin'

Ben's a pariah dog.... Carl's the right hand of death.

:D

[Master of Aeons]

That's what I'm sayin'

Ben's a pariah dog.... Carl's the right hand of death.

:D

Uh... I'm genuinely confused about what you mean. Are you talking about the cute, harmless rodent or the breed of dog?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prairie_dog
or a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pariah_dog

[DreadMagus]

Oh wow, there's an actual breed called that... lol... I was referencing a game.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Pariah

I think Ben is like that... yeah.

[JabbaDaHuttX7]

I'm sorry, Cyreen, but you're not worth my time anymore. I'm not interested in your feminist shit.



And here I thought Lilly was the feminist-bait type of fictional character that makes people swoon.

[Master of Aeons]

Oh, Fallout 2. The only game in the series that doesn't count.

[DreadMagus]

Oh no you didn't......

[Master of Aeons]

Well, if you don't count Brotherhood of Steel and Tactics. Then it's the one that doesn't count. I love 1 and 3, but 2 was silly and almost peaceful. Civilization sort of survived, plants grow, and everything is a [loud and jarring] pop culture reference. Plus that damn trial intro? The game forces me to make a character based around how I should play the game.

But Walking Dead, right? Hell of a game.

[DreadMagus]

Needs more zombies. lol

Just out of curiosity, what did you think of New Vegas?

[Master of Aeons]

Mostly the same thing. The tone was fixed though. Also the support characters were way better than in 3. But Sunny Smiles has the worst damn voice actor ever.

[Cyreen]

And here I thought Lilly was the feminist-bait type of fictional character that makes people swoon.

No. Lilly is the misunderstood khaki debutante, who is much too dainty to hunt. She's exists to make executive decisions for lesser beings. Ask Yami, he's in the know.

[Red Panda]

No. Lilly is the misunderstood khaki debutante, who is much too dainty to hunt. She's exists to make executive decisions for lesser beings. Ask Yami, he's in the know.

You're right. Besides the escape from the motel, she's never put herself in danger. Even then, she was hiding with a gun while everybody else was in harms way.

Wow. Kenny seems more likable now.

[Master of Aeons]

No. Lilly is the misunderstood khaki debutante, who is much too dainty to hunt. She's exists to make executive decisions for lesser beings. Ask Yami, he's in the know.

Just like Lori Grimes. "Get in the kitchen? I never left!"

[Wrighty]

The fact that even if you agree with Lilly on everything and support her against Kenny everytime, she will still dump you and Clem (not to mention everyone else) to die on the road with no means of escape if walkers arrive, shows how much of a friend she really is :P

Say what you want about Kenny, at least he helps his friends.

[DreadMagus]

Until you don't do something he MUST HAVE DONE for him... in which case he never stops bitching about it... and any time you need help he has a brain-fart.

[Wrighty]

Until you don't do something he MUST HAVE DONE for him... in which case he never stops bitching about it... and any time you need help he has a brain-fart.

Not really. He's only really angry if you try to help Larry and risk everyone else. This is a Lilly thread anyway, so why'd you think she left you for dead? :P

[thestalkinghead]

Until you don't do something he MUST HAVE DONE for him... in which case he never stops bitching about it... and any time you need help he has a brain-fart.

lee never dies if Kenny doesn't help, he wont let you die but he will only go the extra mile if you would for him and his family, otherwise you should just put some effort in and get that damn door off yourself :)

[DreadMagus]

Not really. He's only really angry if you try to help Larry and risk everyone else. This is a Lilly thread anyway, so why'd you think she left you for dead? :P

Plot-stupidity.

Lee's a fawkin' Zombie Killing Maniac... she'd have to be dumb or crazy to kick him to the curb.

[Rock114]

Until you don't do something he MUST HAVE DONE for him... in which case he never stops bitching about it... and any time you need help he has a brain-fart.

Kenny: Lee, I'm feelin' a bit thirsty. Can you go to the other side of the motel and get me some water?

Lee: No Kenny, I'm busy fortifying the wall to keep out walkers and bandits so we aren't killed in the night.

*Kenny will remember you made him get his own water*

[Wrighty]

Kenny: Lee, I'm feelin' a bit thirsty. Can you go to the other side of the motel and get me some water?

Lee: No Kenny, I'm busy fortifying the wall to keep out walkers and bandits so we aren't killed in the night.

*Kenny will remember you made him get his own water*

I laughed then remembered im a Kenny fanboy. :P

Nah from what others have said, it really is just based on the meat locker choice. At least you can get Kenny on your side. For Lilly every choice should either be
"Lilly is still crazy"
Or
"Lilly will still leave you to die"

[YamiRaziel]

Kenny: Lee, I'm feelin' a bit thirsty. Can you go to the other side of the motel and get me some water?

Lee: No Kenny, I'm busy fortifying the wall to keep out walkers and bandits so we aren't killed in the night.

*Kenny will remember you made him get his own water*

That sums it up perfectly :D

[Cyreen]

Why does Lilly always look like she got hit with a frying pan in the face?

[Zombies are Awesome!]

Why does Lilly always look like she got hit with a frying pan in the face?

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D lol

[Rock114]

That sums it up perfectly :D

Lilly: Hey Lee, think you could go give my Dad a hand with working on the wall?

Lee: Sorry Lilly, but I'm going hunting with Kenny and Mark so that the group doesn't starve to death when our food runs out soon.

*Lilly will remember you didn't help Larry*


I don't play favorites. Everybody gets one.

[dee23]

Kenny has always had my back so I'll have his.

The relationship with Lilly never has you two joking and smiling at each other. She never cares to be your buddy or have your back in times of need.

She sees you as someone she can use. She sees you as a vote. Not Lee.

Side with Kenny he can see you're more then a vote.
You're more then Lee.

You're a friend. Get his back and he'll get your back.
The issue I have with Kenny is the fact that there are more opportunities in the game to do things for him and his family than there are to do things for Lilly and Larry that are optional, yet you can do all but one and Kenny will still turn on you. I fed his son in the pharmacy, consoled Kenny when he didn't help me save Sean/saved Duck instead of Sean(on second play through), I fed his son with the rations, I saved his wife from the walker at the motor inn, I saved his wife from Brenda at the saint John's house. Just because I didn't agree to kill Larry he refused to help me when Danny was pointing a gun at me and he watched me struggle in the pharmacy in episode 3 and waited to see if I would die, despite having a gun and being free to help me.

There are less opportunities to aid Lilly in the game than Kenny which are optional and meaningful. You can offer her a candy bar in the pharmacy, help her to get the medication for her father(not optional), agree that the group needs leadership in episode two, feed Larry with the rations and help her to try and revive Larry, so you can do far more for Kenny and his family. When I played, siding will Lilly the only time she went against me was when she outed me to the group in episode 3, telling them I was a murderer which can be excused given her emotional/mental state and her desperation.

My point is, I did less for her and Larry over the 3 episodes so I didn't feel as betrayed when she exposed my past as I did when Kenny left me for dead twice. Had Lilly of been of sound mind I think she would have been more Loyal to Lee than Kenny. At times there even seemed like there were possibilities for a romantic relationship to develop between them considering Lee and her father were the one's she most trusted. The Loss of her father would have made her bond closer with Lee if not for her having her break down and killing Carley.

Kenny on the other hand will treat Lee like an errand boy. If you check how he speaks to him e.g when he rushes him to cut of the teachers leg, he speaks down to him and gives orders, he also does this when he wants Lee to break in to the St John's slaughter house. Lilly treats Lee as an equal, with more respect when she feels supported by Lee and will show concern i.e when he returns from scouting the bandits base and when Lee tells her his plans to help Kenny check out the barn she says it's Lee's call but he should be careful since she thinks it's risky. Lilly shot at Andy when he was about to electicute Lee's head against the wired fence and episode 3 later reveals that she had a caring relationship towards Clementine, as she gave her hair clips to keep her hair tidy.

To stay friends with Kenny you have to agree with everything he says and practically suck up to him like a side kick. Every walkthrough I have seen on youtube where Kenny is friendly to Lee it is because the player did everything for Kenny and sided against Lilly at every opportunity.

Lilly behaves the opposite of Kenny in the sense that you can side against her through out episode 1 and 2 and just do one thing for her, try and save her father and she will forgive Lee for every other disagreement from earlier and have his back until she has her break down. Prior to her break down she seems to show more appreciation and memory of the things Lee has done for her through out the episodes.

[dee23]

I try to keep my arguments to the fuck Kenny thread but I'll post here once.

Kenny wasn't sure if he was able to save you gun or no gun. And when there are loads of walkers swarming, all using your pistol would do is waste ammo. And I bet most people are angry because they supported Keny until he meat locker, then he was angry at Lee. But I don't blame him, Lees who saved Lary risked his life and risked his family being eaten by the cannibals slowly and painfully for an old guy who treated everyone else like shit and might be dead. . They forced him to kill Larry by himself and shoulder the guilt himself, even if it was the right call.

Also I think moments like Kenny trusts you enough to tell you Duck is bitten (he could have kept quiet, or lied) and when offers to teach you how to use he train, in case he dies, shows how much of a good friend he is.
Firstly Kenny doesn't tell you Duck is bitten it is his wife that informs Lee because she acknowledges the seriousness and the ramifications. Kenny sweeps it under the rug so to speak and is in denial, choosing to believe his son won't turn into a walker.

With regards to the pharmacy incident in episode 3 for those that didn't kiss Kenny's arse throughout the series, Kenny knew he could have helped Lee he just chose not to. The noise from using a gun is only an issue when they want to go unnoticed. The place was overrun, that was a good enough reason to use a gun as any. The proof that he could have helped Lee is that he will help Lee on a different play through if he still likes Lee enough to.

As for the meat locker situation, assuming Lee froze up and did not, in the moment see things from Kenny's point of view that was still no reason to deliberately leave Lee for dead. Kenny suggesting Clementine crawls through the vent into an unknown location put her at as much risk as Lee put the group in my refusing to kill Larry before he reanimated.

Personally I don't believe that Lee and Lilly put the group at risk considering they had the advantage of kneeling/standing over him. If he is on his back he is not as strong as 2 adults using their force downwards towards him. Unlike the incident at the motor inn when Lee was on his back fighting of the zombie. Zombie's are not gifted with super strength, they are not stronger than they were before death. Lee struggled at the motor inn because it's weight was on top of him. Kenny did not take this into account. Lee and Lilly would have had more leverage. They had higher ground. That is how Obi wan defeated Anakin in starwars episode 3. Larry could have been restrained. Kenny could have held the salt lick above his head in case he turned into a zombie but he was impatient and chose the short and easier route of killing Larry the easiest way possible. Kenny was not in a good emotional state considering he was panicking about the fate of his wife and son when he made the decision to kill Larry. He even looks regretful after he has done it as if in disbelief of his own actions. He just wanted to get out of the meat locker to find his family and he didn't think or care about anything else and was even quick to suggest Clementine climbed though the shaft.

The point i'm making here is that Kenny's behavior towards Lee after the meat locker incident is not justifiable, given the way Lee has looked out for his family for the last 3 months. There is no way Lee disagreeing with him about his views on killing Larry in cold blood in front of his daughter and an 8 year old girl can negate or erase all of the sacrifices Lee had made for Kenny, Duck and Kat.

Lee took a risk out of compassion. Carley took a risk to leave the pharmacy to save Kenny,Duck,Kat,Clem and Lee. Had Carley of listened to Lilly in the drugstore Lee and his whole group would have died. The same compassion and desire to save a life Carly and Glen showed in helping Lee's group is the same compassion Lee shows in trying to save Larry. When they gave away their position at the pharmacy in episode 1 there were hordes of zombies.

Kenny was panicking and thinking about the easiest option when refusing to help Larry the same way Larry was in the pharmacy when he didn't want Lee's group inside to attract the outside zombies attention to them.

When duck is bitten Kenny is willing to keep him in the group putting everyone at risk on a moving train and whilst driving the RV. Had Duck of turned whilst Kenny was driving he could have crashed and killed everyone but he took that risk out of love for his son. I would say the group were at a greater risk then than they were in the meat locker as there was no guarantee that Larry would have turned into a zombie.

[Wrighty]

Firstly Kenny doesn't tell you Duck is bitten it is his wife that informs Lee because she acknowledges the seriousness and the ramifications. Kenny sweeps it under the rug so to speak and is in denial, choosing to believe his son won't turn into a walker.

With regards to the pharmacy incident in episode 3 for those that didn't kiss Kenny's arse throughout the series, Kenny knew he could have helped Lee he just chose not to. The noise from using a gun is only an issue when they want to go unnoticed. The place was overrun, that was a good enough reason to use a gun as any. The proof that he could have helped Lee is that he will help Lee on a different play through if he still likes Lee enough to.

As for the meat locker situation, assuming Lee froze up and did not, in the moment see things from Kenny's point of view that was still no reason to deliberately leave Lee for dead. Kenny suggesting Clementine crawls through the vent into an unknown location put her at as much risk as Lee put the group in my refusing to kill Larry before he reanimated.

Personally I don't believe that Lee and Lilly put the group at risk considering they had the advantage of kneeling/standing over him. If he is on his back he is not as strong as 2 adults using their force downwards towards him. Unlike the incident at the motor inn when Lee was on his back fighting of the zombie. Zombie's are not gifted with super strength, they are not stronger than they were before death. Lee struggled at the motor inn because it's weight was on top of him. Kenny did not take this into account. Lee and Lilly would have had more leverage. They had higher ground. That is how Obi wan defeated Anakin in starwars episode 3. Larry could have been restrained. Kenny could have held the salt lick above his head in case he turned into a zombie but he was impatient and chose the short and easier route of killing Larry the easiest way possible. Kenny was not in a good emotional state considering he was panicking about the fate of his wife and son when he made the decision to kill Larry. He even looks regretful after he has done it as if in disbelief of his own actions. He just wanted to get out of the meat locker to find his family and he didn't think or care about anything else and was even quick to suggest Clementine climbed though the shaft.

The point i'm making here is that Kenny's behavior towards Lee after the meat locker incident is not justifiable, given the way Lee has looked out for his family for the last 3 months. There is no way Lee disagreeing with him about his views on killing Larry in cold blood in front of his daughter and an 8 year old girl can negate or erase all of the sacrifices Lee had made for Kenny, Duck and Kat.

Lee took a risk out of compassion. Carley took a risk to leave the pharmacy to save Kenny,Duck,Kat,Clem and Lee. Had Carley of listened to Lilly in the drugstore Lee and his whole group would have died. The same compassion and desire to save a life Carly and Glen showed in helping Lee's group is the same compassion Lee shows in trying to save Larry. When they gave away their position at the pharmacy in episode 1 there were hordes of zombies.

Kenny was panicking and thinking about the easiest option when refusing to help Larry the same way Larry was in the pharmacy when he didn't want Lee's group inside to attract the outside zombies attention to them.

When duck is bitten Kenny is willing to keep him in the group putting everyone at risk on a moving train and whilst driving the RV. Had Duck of turned whilst Kenny was driving he could have crashed and killed everyone but he took that risk out of love for his son. I would say the group were at a greater risk then than they were in the meat locker as there was no guarantee that Larry would have turned into a zombie.

Nope, its pretty clear they both inform Lee, Kat is just the one to talk. When Kat told Lee, Ken did not look angry but just sad and he says something around how honesty is important. Theres no proof or evidence to suggest Kenny didnt want to tell anyone. And i dont blame him for being in denial, its probably a easy reaction for someone who's son has just been condemned to death. Not to mention we still dont know much about the disease, for all we know it doesnt affect children.

And just because Kenny doesnt rush in to save a guy he doesnt like in ep 3 and rushes in to save a friend in the same situation doesnt make him a bad person. Its natural. Not to mention, gunshots will dig them a bigger hole as it will attract even more zombies and possibly bandits from the area, making there escape that much harder.

What do you mean, leave Lee for dead anyway? In the meatlocker, he just pushes Lee aside and makes the right choice himself. Not really leaving him for dead. For Clem, you are hardly sending her into a small room with a huge zombie waiting on the other side. Even if the bandits do find her, they'll probably just stick her back in the locker and put a guard in that room. No point killing her and wasting food. Not to mention its only one person. With you refusing to kill Larry, you risk the lives OF THE ENTIRE GROUP, not to mention Kat and Duck getting absolutely horrible deaths. Besides, there was no other way to get out of the meatlocker anyway. If its a choice between everyone getting killed or risking Clem's life, sorry clem get in the vent :P

And sure, zombies dont get super strong. But Larry was huge and strong in life, as he will be in undeath, so he is a much larger threat than you're average walker. I think he will be stronger than the two, especially since they are basically starving and they havent eaten in absolutely ages. Not to mention they tend to jump up and no one had any decent weapons to deal with him, so there was a huge chance of him biting someone and Kenny doesnt know how bites even work. Add all that, and you simply cant deny he is a huge threat. If Kenny misses the saltlick or Larry jumps up (as they do) and moves slightly, then they are all dead. The smartest option is the safest option and thats to kill him before he reaminates. And sure he looked regretful. I would think he was evil if he didnt regret it, but it was still the right option. And again, sending Clem through the vent was the only way they are getting out and i dont blame him for wanting to get his family ASAP.

In the meatlocker, if you try to help Larry, you threaten Kenny and the only thing he cares about which is his family. And not just with quick deaths, or even getting eaten by zombies. No, you risk his family getting pieces cut off of them, bit by bit, and this could go on for days or even months. Kept alive with medicine and bandages, so they dont die and reaminate, so they can get as much meat as possible. You risked that happening (as well as everyone elses lives) for some old bastard who punched you in the face after you got him his heart medicine. Hard to see why he doesnt like you anymore :p And at the end of the day, he hasnt tried to kill you or anything but if it comes to life or death situations, he is less likely to risk his own life to save youre own.

And i get its a risk of compassion. But the risk in the meatlocker is HUGE compared to the one in the shop, not to mention it risks children getting eaten slowly by cannibals. And at least the people in the pharmacy had weapons and had a strong gate to hide behind. None of that in the meatlocker. The only thing stopping everyone from getting killed is the chance that Larry is in fact not dead, after having a huge heart attack, (and the last time we had to get him medicine). The two situations are completely different.

Same with the RV. I'd put there chances of survival of an RV crash much higher than there chances of survival against a huge zombie Larry in a small meatlocker with no weapons with the added risk of people getting eaten alive slowly outside. Not to mention there is no guarantee that Kenny would actually crash the RV. And we know that Duck would have to die before he reaminates and i trusted Kat to shout out or get Kenny to stop when he died or was about to die as she did. Obviously the right choice.

[Rock114]

The issue I have with Kenny is the fact that there are more opportunities in the game to do things for him and his family than there are to do things for Lilly and Larry that are optional, yet you can do all but one and Kenny will still turn on you. I fed his son in the pharmacy, consoled Kenny when he didn't help me save Sean/saved Duck instead of Sean(on second play through), I fed his son with the rations, I saved his wife from the walker at the motor inn, I saved his wife from Brenda at the saint John's house. Just because I didn't agree to kill Larry he refused to help me when Danny was pointing a gun at me and he watched me struggle in the pharmacy in episode 3 and waited to see if I would die, despite having a gun and being free to help me.

There are less opportunities to aid Lilly in the game than Kenny which are optional and meaningful. You can offer her a candy bar in the pharmacy, help her to get the medication for her father(not optional), agree that the group needs leadership in episode two, feed Larry with the rations and help her to try and revive Larry, so you can do far more for Kenny and his family. When I played, siding will Lilly the only time she went against me was when she outed me to the group in episode 3, telling them I was a murderer which can be excused given her emotional/mental state and her desperation.

My point is, I did less for her and Larry over the 3 episodes so I didn't feel as betrayed when she exposed my past as I did when Kenny left me for dead twice. Had Lilly of been of sound mind I think she would have been more Loyal to Lee than Kenny. At times there even seemed like there were possibilities for a romantic relationship to develop between them considering Lee and her father were the one's she most trusted. The Loss of her father would have made her bond closer with Lee if not for her having her break down and killing Carley.

Kenny on the other hand will treat Lee like an errand boy. If you check how he speaks to him e.g when he rushes him to cut of the teachers leg, he speaks down to him and gives orders, he also does this when he wants Lee to break in to the St John's slaughter house. Lilly treats Lee as an equal, with more respect when she feels supported by Lee and will show concern i.e when he returns from scouting the bandits base and when Lee tells her his plans to help Kenny check out the barn she says it's Lee's call but he should be careful since she thinks it's risky. Lilly shot at Andy when he was about to electicute Lee's head against the wired fence and episode 3 later reveals that she had a caring relationship towards Clementine, as she gave her hair clips to keep her hair tidy.

To stay friends with Kenny you have to agree with everything he says and practically suck up to him like a side kick. Every walkthrough I have seen on youtube where Kenny is friendly to Lee it is because the player did everything for Kenny and sided against Lilly at every opportunity.

Lilly behaves the opposite of Kenny in the sense that you can side against her through out episode 1 and 2 and just do one thing for her, try and save her father and she will forgive Lee for every other disagreement from earlier and have his back until she has her break down. Prior to her break down she seems to show more appreciation and memory of the things Lee has done for her through out the episodes.

It's the MEAT LOCKER! You can side against Kenny EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. but the meat locker, and he'll have your back from then on. I refused to take the food, and I shot the girl in the street when he told me to leave her. Guess what? He called me his pal in the pharmacy, just after helping me get out from under the door. When I told him I was a murderer, he said "It doesn't matter Lee. And don't think you owe anyone an explanation. You're ok with me" or something like that. He sin't friendly to me because he thinks I'm his henchman, he's friendly to me because we are FRIENDS. Whenever he says something that I agree with, I agree with him because I think he truly is right.

I don't see how giving Clem hair ties counts as Lilly lining up to be her new mother. Lilly didn't truly CARE about anyone except Larry. That's why staying near Macon was so important. For LARRY'S heart medication. She wasn't the one who saved the group in the pharmacy in Episode 1, that was Kenny. She only cared about her father during that incident, while Kenny took charge and got almost everyone out alive. He even comes back for Lee if Lee was a complete asshole to him during the entire episode. It doesn't seem like Lilly and Kenny are all that different, but at least Kenny didn't steal the RV and leave everyone to die at the train. Lilly does that no matter what, just like Kenny saving you in Episode 1.

[YamiRaziel]

It's the MEAT LOCKER! You can side against Kenny EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. but the meat locker, and he'll have your back from then on. I refused to take the food, and I shot the girl in the street when he told me to leave her. Guess what? He called me his pal in the pharmacy, just after helping me get out from under the door. When I told him I was a murderer, he said "It doesn't matter Lee. And don't think you owe anyone an explanation. You're ok with me" or something like that. He sin't friendly to me because he thinks I'm his henchman, he's friendly to me because we are FRIENDS. Whenever he says something that I agree with, I agree with him because I think he truly is right.

I don't see how giving Clem hair ties counts as Lilly lining up to be her new mother. Lilly didn't truly CARE about anyone except Larry. That's why staying near Macon was so important. For LARRY'S heart medication. She wasn't the one who saved the group in the pharmacy in Episode 1, that was Kenny. She only cared about her father during that incident, while Kenny took charge and got almost everyone out alive. He even comes back for Lee if Lee was a complete asshole to him during the entire episode. It doesn't seem like Lilly and Kenny are all that different, but at least Kenny didn't steal the RV and leave everyone to die at the train. Lilly does that no matter what, just like Kenny saving you in Episode 1.

That's not what happened in my plays. While I was supporting or sometimes not Kenny, he kept whining for every single time I didn't side with him, calling me all sorts of names. Not exactly a friend. Even if you're friends he doesn't even try to understand your point. Guess he's just letting it go without discussing.
For the second paragraph I think you're giving Kenny too much credit. He did almost nothing in ep. 1 except threatening to kill the strangers that saved our lives. Well, I guess that's how he is with strangers.
Lee and Glenn did most of the things, found fuel and the key to the pharmacy.

[Rock114]

That's not what happened in my plays. While I was supporting or sometimes not Kenny, he kept whining for every single time I didn't side with him, calling me all sorts of names. Not exactly a friend. Even if you're friends he doesn't even try to understand your point. Guess he's just letting it go without discussing.
For the second paragraph I think you're giving Kenny too much credit. He did almost nothing in ep. 1 except threatening to kill the strangers that saved our lives. Well, I guess that's how he is with strangers.
Lee and Glenn did most of the things, found fuel and the key to the pharmacy.

He only threatened to kill Larry. Larry, the old man who left us for dead, was trying to get everyone to side with him and kill Duck, Kenny's son. They didn't exactly welcome our group with open arms. Then again, maybe Kenny should have just stepped aside and let Larry smash Duck's head in for the sake of being polite, right?

[YamiRaziel]

He only threatened to kill Larry. Larry, the old man who left us for dead, was trying to get everyone to side with him and kill Duck, Kenny's son. They didn't exactly welcome our group with open arms. Then again, maybe Kenny should have just stepped aside and let Larry smash Duck's head in for the sake of being polite, right?

Of course, not. He could've check his son first, before threatening anybody. What if they were a united group, one that would see us as potential troublemakers and left us out because Kenny threatened Larry?
We had no guns and they had just saved our lives, despite having problems of their own.
Larry acted in the best of the group, something you usually claim Kenny does.
However, the slight difference is that Larry wasn't hostile to people who could be trouble (for example the St. Johns), he was hostile to people who had attitude, no brains and no guns.
I don't want to have Kenny beside me when I meet new people. He could only put me in trouble.

[Wrighty]

Of course, not. He could've check his son first, before threatening anybody. What if they were a united group, one that would see us as potential troublemakers and left us out because Kenny threatened Larry?
We had no guns and they had just saved our lives, despite having problems of their own.
Larry acted in the best of the group, something you usually claim Kenny does.
However, the slight difference is that Larry wasn't hostile to people who could be trouble (for example the St. Johns), he was hostile to people who had attitude, no brains and no guns.
I don't want to have Kenny beside me when I meet new people. He could only put me in trouble.

Kat was already checking, and Kenny needed to hold Larry off while she did so. Larry was ready to throw out Duck right there and then. Besides two people checking would just be unnessesary.

Whose "they" anyway? It was just Carely who stood up and did what she thought was right. And its not like he went in and started threatening and picking fights with the whole group. Larry immediatly got in Kenny's face and started shouting about how they need to kill Duck, even though he has no proof and no evidence of a bite. He's hardly going to go "Well i dont think you are right, but since you saved our lives I guess you can take our son and kill him, even though you have no proof he is bitten. One of your group members saved our lives so it is only fair" :P

And how did Kenny have attitude? They literally did nothing wrong before Larry started shouting. No guns? Just because they have no weapons doesnt mean he is allowed to be hostile to everyone. No brains? If Larry was smart, he would realise that killing a child before getting proof is dumb, especially if the pissed off father is standing right there. Kenny did nothing wrong and said nothing hostile to the St Johns when he arrived, so he obviously doesnt go around picking fights with people. And before you mention Omid or Chuck, his wife and son had just died like 2 hours ago, so he was seriously pissed off.

[Rock114]

Of course, not. He could've check his son first, before threatening anybody. What if they were a united group, one that would see us as potential troublemakers and left us out because Kenny threatened Larry?
We had no guns and they had just saved our lives, despite having problems of their own.
Larry acted in the best of the group, something you usually claim Kenny does.
However, the slight difference is that Larry wasn't hostile to people who could be trouble (for example the St. Johns), he was hostile to people who had attitude, no brains and no guns.
I don't want to have Kenny beside me when I meet new people. He could only put me in trouble.

Larry , much like his daughter, doesn't believe in "proof". He was ready to kill a child because he "thought" he was bitten, without reasonable evidence. I didn't really see the entire group come out to save us, I saw Carley and Glenn. Lilly and Larry don't get credit for other people's actions. Lilly and Larry stayed inside the pharmacy being pissed because two people chose to do what they thought was right. They were hostile because Carley and Glenn went against their orders, and immediately set in with "Never disobey me again" and my favorite "We should have let you die out there". Then Larry starts with his "The kid might be bitten, let's kill him" spiel. He couldn't even wait for Kat to check. If Kenny hadn't gotten in his face, Duck would have been walker chow within 10 seconds. I think Kenny would ahve been a horrible person if he HADN'T stood up for his son. Larry and Lilly made a far worse first impression on us than we did on them. Perhaps if they had showed just a little bit of humanity. And to think, all it took was the end of the world to bring their "kindness" out later on.

[YamiRaziel]

You're missing a very important point here. They were the people with the gun. Their entire group risked their lives for us. Even if Lilly and Larry just stood in they still risked their lives because our group was stupid screaming "You friendly?" in a walker infested town.
So yeah, they were the one that saved us and even if they have some power struggles you still can't be sure how they'll react when you start threatening them. It's one thing to stand up for your own and another to start yelling and threatening with murder. What if they were the sort of people who would join the Governor :D (Ironically, Lilly joins him, lol), they could've had a very bad response to such a threat.
For me personally that was the point where I understood that Kenny is not only a coward, but he's really dumb. He does not really think about stuff, he just talks and talks...
I'm not really judging Lilly's group in this scene because you know we were the ones that crashed their party. They could've all let us die.

[ihateepisodethree]

I didn't play favorites between the two in my canon playtrough. I supported kenny when I thought he was right and supported Lilly when i thought she was right.

I played both sides and tried to diffuse hostilities where I could.

Lily and I got along fine because of this. Kenny and I didn't. Why? Because you have to support Kenny in every single instance. It doesn't matter if I saved his kid and stuck up for him when larry thought he was bitten.

Because I didn't agree with holding back Lily while Kenny dropped a salt lick on larry I wasn't cool.

Guess what kenny doing the logical thing isn't always the right thing. There is nothing wrong with waiting and trying to revive Larry before ultimately convincing Lily that he is dead.

Nope it had to be done his way and if not I was coward. Fuck kenny.

Now with the loss of his wife and child I have much more sympathy for the man. I will try and do my best to help through this difficult time but I won't forget who he is.

People like to blame Ben for the events that unfolded. From my perspective it was lily and kenny (to a lesser extent) who were the perpetrators. If it wasn't bandits and ben it would have been something else.

[ihateepisodethree]

You're missing a very important point here. They were the people with the gun. Their entire group risked their lives for us. Even if Lilly and Larry just stood in they still risked their lives because our group was stupid screaming "You friendly?" in a walker infested town.

So yeah, they were the one that saved us and even if they have some power struggles you still can't be sure how they'll react when you start threatening them. It's one thing to stand up for your own and another to start yelling and threatening with murder. What if they were the sort of people who would join the Governor :D (Ironically, Lilly joins him, lol), they could've had a very bad response to such a threat.

For me personally that was the point where I understood that Kenny is not only a coward, but he's really dumb. He does not really think about stuff, he just talks and talks...

I'm not really judging Lilly's group in this scene because you know we were the ones that crashed their party. They could've all let us die.

The problem with Lily was she lived her life through Larry. Even if she knew thought what he was doing was wrong she'd take his side regardless.

I can't remember the entire dialogue sequence but I thinks that what happened when duck was suspected of being bit.

[YamiRaziel]

The problem with Lily was she lived her life through Larry. Even if she knew thought what he was doing was wrong she'd take his side regardless.

I can't remember the entire dialogue sequence but I thinks that what happened when duck was suspected of being bit.

Actually she didn't take his side. She tried to calm people down because she knew her father was wrong, she was just afraid to say it out load. It is actually a normal reaction. You don't say things like that in front of strangers, not out loud. Why? Because your closest person might feel betrayed if you take the side of strangers. The best way is to try to calm both sides. I wouldn't betray my own, especially in front of strangers even if I see that they are wrong. I would probably do exactly what she did. Tried to make them stop and rethink it. Trust is a very touchy subject, especially during ZA.

[Rock114]

Actually she didn't take his side. She tried to calm people down because she knew her father was wrong, she was just afraid to say it out load. It is actually a normal reaction. You don't say things like that in front of strangers, not out loud. Why? Because your closest person might feel betrayed if you take the side of strangers. The best way is to try to calm both sides. I wouldn't betray my own, especially in front of strangers even if I see that they are wrong. I would probably do exactly what she did. Tried to make them stop and rethink it. Trust is a very touchy subject, especially during ZA.

What do you think would have happened if the bathroom walker hadn't interrupted the argument? Would Lilly have stood by and let Larry throw Duck out, even though she thought he was wrong?

[thestalkinghead]

Actually she didn't take his side. She tried to calm people down because she knew her father was wrong, she was just afraid to say it out load. It is actually a normal reaction. You don't say things like that in front of strangers, not out loud. Why? Because your closest person might feel betrayed if you take the side of strangers. The best way is to try to calm both sides. I wouldn't betray my own, especially in front of strangers even if I see that they are wrong. I would probably do exactly what she did. Tried to make them stop and rethink it. Trust is a very touchy subject, especially during ZA.

that is the sort of thing that makes lilly a gutless daddy's girl, if my dad wanted to kill a child out of pure paranoia i would have said "shut up dad! you will give yourself a heart attack, now lets check the child is ok before you go crazy" that is the kind of thing that would have made me thought she had balls, and i would have respected her as a leader, but as is she was just leader by the force of larry and not a good leader either

[FarmerJoe]

What do you think would have happened if the bathroom walker hadn't interrupted the argument? Would Lilly have stood by and let Larry throw Duck out, even though she thought he was wrong?

I suspect she would, but only if Lee and the majority of the others agreed that it needed to be done.
In the argument she was trying to diffuse the situation by telling her father to calm down. Larry didn't think she was taking the situation seriously enough, he was all "you're not fucking acting like it!"

They loved it other deeply but Larry was somewhat of a handicap for Lilly.

[thestalkinghead]

I suspect she would, but only if Lee and the majority of the others agreed that it needed to be done.
In the argument she was trying to diffuse the situation by telling her father to calm down. Larry didn't think she was taking the situation seriously enough, he was all "you're not fucking acting like it!"

They loved it other deeply but Larry was somewhat of a handicap for Lilly.

that's a good point, i may have had a totally different impression of her if she was her own independent self, without the baggage of a controlling father she would have probably shown her military material and be a real leader

[Rommel49]

I don't see how giving Clem hair ties counts as Lilly lining up to be her new mother. Lilly didn't truly CARE about anyone except Larry. That's why staying near Macon was so important. For LARRY'S heart medication. She wasn't the one who saved the group in the pharmacy in Episode 1, that was Kenny. She only cared about her father during that incident, while Kenny took charge and got almost everyone out alive. He even comes back for Lee if Lee was a complete asshole to him during the entire episode. It doesn't seem like Lilly and Kenny are all that different, but at least Kenny didn't steal the RV and leave everyone to die at the train. Lilly does that no matter what, just like Kenny saving you in Episode 1.

That's being a little simplistic; if the only priority was her dad's medication, she wouldn't have advocated staying into Episode 3, cared about stolen supplies, etc. Staying at the motel made sense for reasons other than access to drugs, like the fact it provided shelter and water (both of which trump food as a survival concern, the lack of either one will kill you far quicker). As the saying goes; in an a survival situation, there's no such thing as a perfect spot, they only exist in manuals.

Lilly did seem to genuinely care about other people, we see that she spent time with Clementine when Lee wasn't around (in Jolene's video), she was concerned after Mark was shot, and she was the one that taught the survivors how to use the weapons they found and she helped with the bandits at the start of Episode 3, etc. and while she and her dad may have been cold about how they treated outsiders, Ben did kinda prove they had a point about being completely trusting of new people.

Both Lilly and Kenny put other people at risk for their families (hell, look at a video of Vold's silent playthrough and see what happens if you don't get Kenny to stop the train :p)... which is actually what I'd expect, to be honest - somebody's family is (or atleast should) be their first priority, just not necessarily their only one.

[YamiRaziel]

What do you think would have happened if the bathroom walker hadn't interrupted the argument? Would Lilly have stood by and let Larry throw Duck out, even though she thought he was wrong?

Replay the scene again using the silent option or side with Larry and you'll see. The bathroom scene come that early, Katjaa says there is no bite or scratch and Larry apologizes. There is a heated argument and a fight scene only if you side with Kenny.

[Rock114]

Replay the scene again using the silent option or side with Larry and you'll see. The bathroom scene come that early, Katjaa says there is no bite or scratch and Larry apologizes. There is a heated argument and a fight scene only if you side with Kenny.

And if Larry grabbed Duck right away? If he had Duck by the arm, was at the door, would Lilly have done anything then? Or let a child be killed by her father so she doesn't risk upsetting him? I have never seen Lilly actually stand up to Larry, which leads me to believe she would have let him kill Duck if it had actually gone that far.

[RedKoolLoops]

And if Larry grabbed Duck right away? If he had Duck by the arm, was at the door, would Lilly have done anything then? Or let a child be killed by her father so she doesn't risk upsetting him? I have never seen Lilly actually stand up to Larry, which leads me to believe she would have let him kill Duck if it had actually gone that far.

This is sort of true. In a recent playthrough I remember if you stay silent during that scene, when you later on speak to Lilly she says that she 'didn't think he (Larry) was in the right' but Lee tries to reassure her by saying 'Duck could've actually been bitten' or something like that. But in all honestly, I really don't think she's as cold hearted at some people have been making her out to be.