If everyone is infected, why do zombie bites kill you?

[Siniistar]

This is a very common question, but i think its time we had a serious discussion about it

If everyone is in fact, already infected with the virus that causes reanimation, then what is it about a zombie's bite that kills you? is it the fact their flesh is so rotten that you get a bad bacteria infection and die? because antibiotics can fix that easily.

So if its not an infection, what is it? Surely there's no magical reason why you die(TWD doesn't deal in wizardry as far as i know).

I remember someone suggesting they give you a virus that attacks your immune system similar to a fast acting version of AIDS independent of the reanimation, but i think the writers said that it had nothing to do with a virus or something to that effect.

[xXNinjaScoreXx]

I'm pretty sure it's the zombies ripping out your guts that cause you to die

*Cough* Brie *Cough*

[Siniistar]

I'm pretty sure it's the zombies ripping out your guts that cause you to die

*Cough* Brie *Cough*

brie's wolverine obviously

[rachellouise85]

if it's something that's immune to current medication, it wouldn't work. Some super-duper bug. (scientific description, of course x)) And most of us would be incapable of making something to combat it...

[Siniistar]

if it's something that's immune to current medication, it wouldn't work. Some super-duper bug. (scientific description, of course x))


if its just a virus(super duper bug : p) then eventually a vaccine will be found, as well as some people just possessing natural immunity, and idk if TWD is going to take that route at all

[xXNinjaScoreXx]

brie's wolverine obviously
How did you know!!! :o

[ThePaSch]

I'm guessing it's something along the lines of a fast-developing sepsis.

[rachellouise85]

if its just a virus(super duper bug : p) then eventually a vaccine will be found, as well as some people just possessing natural immunity, and idk if TWD is going to take that route at all

As long as all the scientists are kept alive, and have things to test and such (without any accidents), then spend years finding something. Plus there would need to be a way/someone to distribute it

But thinking of how many people die in a day, who will turn regardless of being bit or not (before people realize they have to destroy the brain of the dead), and they would bite anyone near, medication would probably come too late

The best thing would be to not get bit, not really going to take a chance on being naturally immune :D. I don't even know how likely that is with normal stuff.

[Doctanian]

I think it's just a normal dysentery infection that kills you. Zombies don't have the cleanest of mouths and in a post-apocalyptic world, antibiotics aren't common. But this is why I think a certain type of antibiotic is the cure, at least to prevent you from dying from an normal infection.

[Web Head]

"Walker" zombie bites do not kill because of the zombie virus, but rather the unsanitary nature of their mouths due to diet and decomposition, with scratches causing similar infections for similar reasons. Their saliva often contains several septic pathogens, specifically the bacteria: E. coli,Staphylococcus sp., Providencia sp., Proteus morgani, P. mirabilis. and Pasteurella multocida. The rapid growth of these bacteria tends to cause extremely virulent strains that are highly resistant to antibiotics, and most often lethal. It can be assumed, however, that an undetermined number of original "outbreak" cases involved recently-reanimated zombies that were relatively intact and "clean", biting others and still causing infectious deaths, indicating that there is a possibility of the zombie "virus" itself producing lethal, transmittable organisms within zombies upon reanimation

[TealBlue]

This is a very common question, but i think its time we had a serious discussion about it

If everyone is in fact, already infected with the virus that causes reanimation, then what is it about a zombie's bite that kills you? is it the fact their flesh is so rotten that you get a bad bacteria infection and die? because antibiotics can fix that easily.

So if its not an infection, what is it? Surely there's no magical reason why you die(TWD doesn't deal in wizardry as far as i know).

I remember someone suggesting they give you a virus that attacks your immune system similar to a fast acting version of AIDS independent of the reanimation, but i think the writers said that it had nothing to do with a virus or something to that effect.


:)
This is just a thought, okay? But let's say that the zombie 'virus' comes in two forms, a dormant, and a active form, okay? So, what happens when the infections first start?

I don't know how the infections first began, but if it was something like the CDC (Center for Disease Control) in Atlanta having a sample from either some arcane source (like a rare virus from Africa, or China [See Outbreak movie, or trailers for World War Z] or some government germ warfare project [28 days movie?]) Which starts everything falling apart, then if there are two forms, the initial infection implies that the virus and it catalyst were brought together and then accidentally or purposely released.

So the world goes to heck in a hand basket.

Now come up to the present with our Telltale characters, where Lee and company find out that no matter how you die, that you 'turn'. So what we may have, since the virus is released, is a return to 'dormant' and 'active' forms, where the virus that is airborne has already infected most of us. It might be cool to assume that there are some, perhaps in underground bunkers, or perhaps in remote areas where prevailing winds were detoured, are still 'uninfected'. But at this point that is pure conjecture for a story arc that Telltale or Robert Kirkman may decide to never go into.

But for explanation purposes, let us assume that the reason we 'suddenly' succumb when bitten, when we are already infected is that, the dormant virus that is in most people already is 'triggered' when a zombie bite or scratch transfers the 'active' portion of the virus to the survivor.

Without the 'active' portion of the virus, the 'dormant' form can exist for seemingly years? Or a lifetime without the carrier showing evidence of the disease.

But this seems to me, that the 'carrier' portion of the virus could carry on, to children, if they were conceived after the apocalypse started, by the parents transferring it to the child. Or It may even prove to transfer to an uninfected survivor, child or not, if the virus is continually 'stirred up', but that may be a completely 'local' phenomenon, where lets say you came from a bank vault in a small town and survived the initial exposure, and then escaped town after most of the zombies had decayed to the point of no longer functioning, or even of being infectious any longer.

Which means moving into areas where zombies were still active and functional could expose you to the carrier portion of the virus, and a bite/scratch could 'activate' it.

But such a theory also means that if survivors could wait long enough, perhaps several months? Or a year? That the infected populations would have decayed and dried out [no more moist viable tissue remaining] then the 'carrier' portion of the virus could die. Perhaps meaning that if there were survivors that came into an area in containment suits with their own oxygen supply and were bit, or scratched, that they may not have been exposed to the underlaying 'carrier' portion of the virus first, so the bite might cause a nasty infection, but not a zombifying infection that would turn the survivor into a zombie.

Which might actually be cool, eh? :)
Of course this is only my 'theory', and Kirkman and Telltale have their own ideas, so maybe it will never be this way at all, but if I were writing a book, it might be cool to think of the virus working like this because it makes things hit and miss and gives people both dispair, but also hope of the virus dying out. :)

-Teal

//

[adam86shadow]

Get bitten by a human will probably result in infection let alone a decaying zombie

[WD40]

To echo what was above a little, supposedly they host a nice variety of mostly antibiotic resistant bacteria, which means no vaccine would really help there, especially since it isn't a specific type and rather it is just a big mess of bad bacteria. They even said somewhere (not looking for sources, too lazy) that it is possible, just highly unlikely due to the nature of the bacteria, to actually combat it with powerful antibiotics.

[TealBlue]

This is a very common question, but i think its time we had a serious discussion about it

If everyone is in fact, already infected with the virus that causes reanimation, then what is it about a zombie's bite that kills you? is it the fact their flesh is so rotten that you get a bad bacteria infection and die? because antibiotics can fix that easily.

So if its not an infection, what is it? Surely there's no magical reason why you die(TWD doesn't deal in wizardry as far as i know).

I remember someone suggesting they give you a virus that attacks your immune system similar to a fast acting version of AIDS independent of the reanimation, but i think the writers said that it had nothing to do with a virus or something to that effect.



Theory on How The Zombie Virus Accelerates Infection, Even When The Infection Is Already Prevalent -



This is just a thought, okay? But let's say that the zombie 'virus' comes in two forms, a dormant, and a active form, okay? So, what happens when the infections first start?

I don't know how the infections first began, but if it was something like the CDC (Center for Disease Control) in Atlanta having a sample from either some arcane source (like a rare virus from Africa, or China [See Outbreak movie, or trailers for World War Z] or some government germ warfare project [28 days movie?]) Which starts everything falling apart, then if there are two forms, the initial infection implies that the virus and it catalyst were brought together and then accidentally or purposely released.

So the world goes to heck in a hand basket.

Now come up to the present with our Telltale characters, where Lee and company find out that no matter how you die, that you 'turn'. So what we may have, since the virus is released, is a return to 'dormant' and 'active' forms, where the virus that is airborne has already infected most of us. It might be cool to assume that there are some, perhaps in underground bunkers, or perhaps in remote areas where prevailing winds were detoured, are still 'uninfected'. But at this point that is pure conjecture for a story arc that Telltale or Robert Kirkman may decide to never go into.

But for explanation purposes, let us assume that the reason we 'suddenly' succumb when bitten, when we are already infected is that, the dormant virus that is in most people already is 'triggered' when a zombie bite or scratch transfers the 'active' portion of the virus to the survivor.

Without the 'active' portion of the virus, the 'dormant' form can exist for seemingly years? Or a lifetime without the carrier showing evidence of the disease.

But this seems to me, that the 'carrier' portion of the virus could carry on, to children, if they were conceived after the apocalypse started, by the parents transferring it to the child. Or It may even prove to transfer to an uninfected survivor, child or not, if the virus is continually 'stirred up', but that may be a completely 'local' phenomenon, where lets say you came from a bank vault in a small town and survived the initial exposure, and then escaped town after most of the zombies had decayed to the point of no longer functioning, or even of being infectious any longer.

Which means moving into areas where zombies were still active and functional could expose you to the carrier portion of the virus, and a bite/scratch could 'activate' it.

But such a theory also means that if survivors could wait long enough, perhaps several months? Or a year? That the infected populations would have decayed and dried out [no more moist viable tissue remaining] then the 'carrier' portion of the virus could die. Perhaps meaning that if there were survivors that came into an area in containment suits with their own oxygen supply and were bit, or scratched, that they may not have been exposed to the underlaying 'carrier' portion of the virus first, so the bite might cause a nasty infection, but not a zombifying infection that would turn the survivor into a zombie.

Which might actually be cool, eh? :)
Of course this is only my 'theory', and Kirkman and Telltale have their own ideas, so maybe it will never be this way at all, but if I were writing a book, it might be cool to think of the virus working like this because it makes things hit and miss and gives people both dispair, but also hope of the virus dying out. :)

-Teal

//

[Master of Aeons]

This is a very common question, but i think its time we had a serious discussion about it .

Very common question, but not by a long shot the first time we've had a serious discussion about it. In fact, we've serioused it to death. Here are good threads you can go to that aren't full of TealBlue's rampant spamming:

Virus:
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36075
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36700
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36749
www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39215

Cross Contamination:
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38685

Animal Infection:
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38683

Or if you want Kirkman's official word, read the letter hacks from Issue 41:

The rule is: WHATEVER it is that causes the zombies, is something everyone already has. If you stub your toe, get an infection and die, you turn into a zombie, UNLESS your brain is damaged. If someone shoots you in the head and you die, you're dead. A zombie bite kills you because of infection, or blood loss, not because of the zombie "virus."

[JakeSt123]

It's like an electronic thing that requires two batteries, I guess. One battery won't work without the other - the Infection won't work without the Bite, and possibly, the Bite won't work without the Infection.

[Master of Aeons]

...the Infection won't work without the Bite...

Except that tons of people turn without being bitten. Travis/The Teacher, the girl in Ben's story...I can name people from the comic and show too.

[corruptbiggins]

The infection does work without a bite. In this world you turn regardless of how you die (excepting holes and the like to the head/brain).

[Vainamoinen]

Sorry for those multiple Teal posts. The forum automoderation feature had confiscated these posts upon posting (possibly decided they were too long), so Teal probably thought they were lost and wrote them again in slightly different form. I approved these posts just some hours ago, so they all popped up right now.

There's no spamming going on here. :)

[thestalkinghead]

zombies have a komodo dragon like bite, and the rule is when you die you turn unless brain damage killed you or your brain is damaged before you turn.

the bite and the zombie infection are unrelated but i believe that the zombie virus uses the bite to help spread infection, like how a cold makes you sneeze and you spread the infection

[Toasty]

You're getting it right from the source when you get bit by the zombie.

[Siniistar]

I have a feeling its something extremely obvious that we're all over looking lol. I guess we'll have to wait to the end to really see for sure

[TWDFTW]

It's like an electronic thing that requires two batteries, I guess. One battery won't work without the other - the Infection won't work without the Bite, and possibly, the Bite won't work without the Infection.

Yeah Carley, one battery won't work without the other one....

[trd84]

Everyone is already infected but its dormant until you die. When a Zombie bites you it gives you an active infection.

[marcu5]

liken the bite to the bacteria inside of a komodo dragons mouth

[Eric Northman]

if its just a virus(super duper bug : p) then eventually a vaccine will be found, as well as some people just possessing natural immunity, and idk if TWD is going to take that route at all

HIV has been going strong for decades with no vaccine. I think you overestimate how quickly we can create a vaccination. Immune cases (if any) were probably just ripped apart by the zombies and died that way.

[Eric Northman]

liken the bite to the bacteria inside of a komodo dragons mouth

I was thinking the same think, I almost wrote it myself, but when I looked it up I came across an article citing a study that showed it's actually a venom that the komodo dragon uses to kill its victims not bacteria.

[thestalkinghead]

I was thinking the same think, I almost wrote it myself, but when I looked it up I came across an article citing a study that showed it's actually a venom that the komodo dragon uses to kill its victims not bacteria.

the bacteria is still a big part of it's attack strategy

[marcu5]

I was thinking the same think, I almost wrote it myself, but when I looked it up I came across an article citing a study that showed it's actually a venom that the komodo dragon uses to kill its victims not bacteria.

good info

but the point is still the same. there's no real science behind the zombie bite, but we're led to believe it's the lethal 'venom' in a zombie bite that kills you.

[Tyrant]

Question -

If zombies biting you "accelerate" your infection.

Everybody is infected right?

What if non-zombie bit another non-zombie, and drew blood? Wouldn't that have the same effect?

[thestalkinghead]

Question -

If zombies biting you "accelerate" your infection.

Everybody is infected right?

What if non-zombie bit another non-zombie, and drew blood? Wouldn't that have the same effect?

it doesn't accelerate it, mouths of living people are full of bacteria so if a person bites you, you would need antibiotics else you may develop sepsis because of your infected bite and you may die of blood poisoning and turn into a zombie, so its the same with zombies but i think the bacteria level in a zombies mouth is even more than a normal living human

[Siniistar]

it'd be crazy if the cure was just common penicillin to combat the bite infection and people have just been over-analyzing it in the mass panic

[Doctanian]

Plot convenience.

[trd84]

it'd be crazy if the cure was just common penicillin to combat the bite infection and people have just been over-analyzing it in the mass panic

I doubt it. In the first hours of a ZA hospitals probably treat bites a number of ways. It just doesn't work.

[Grimfango]

I'd never thought about this. What a massive flaw. My entire walking dead world is crumbling around me!

[Gudmoore]

Fucking idiots, it has been covered more times than I care to remember. Use the search function instead of posting stupid, already answered questions.

Since you seem to be too retarded to navigate a forum, I'll make it as simple as possible. The bite doesn't spread the virus. Everyone is already infected. A zombie's mouth is a watering hole of bacteria, so if someone is bitten the bite gets infected; not with the zombie virus, like when a wound will get infected and leak puss but on a much more severe level. Then the body burns itself out fighting the bacteria and they die.

[rachellouise85]

Well, obviously you didn't get the fact that we're not talking about the dormant zombie virus. It /is/ pretty clear that it is the 'bite = death' aspect being discussed.

I doubt it. In the first hours of a ZA hospitals probably treat bites a number of ways. It just doesn't work.

Yeah, I agree, a lot of people probably went to hospital when bitten and they started getting fever etc. most,if not all, of the common treatments would have been tried.

[Gudmoore]

And that is exactly what I was talking about.

"A zombie's mouth is a watering hole of bacteria, so if someone is bitten the bite gets infected; not with the zombie virus, like when a wound will get infected and leak puss but on a much more severe level. Then the body burns itself out fighting the bacteria and they die. "

Bacteria from a rotting carcases mouth is what "= death".

[rachellouise85]

Obviously. From the way you came in blasting about how the bite does not spread the virus, and started correcting everyone in such a rude manner, you totally got what we were talking about.

[Gudmoore]

Obviously. From the way you came in blasting about how the bite does not spread the virus, and started correcting everyone in such a rude manner, you totally got what we were talking about.

I know exactly what you were discussing. I was rude and will stay rude when people are too lazy to figure out how to use the damn search function.

[Master of Aeons]

I'm with Gudmoore. I used the search function and spit out all of the links I found. Took me two minutes. Three tops.

[rachellouise85]

" I'll make it as simple as possible. The bite doesn't spread the virus. Everyone is already infected."

yep. Obviously, yes you did. ¬_¬

[donaruie]

If you get bit by a person you're garanteed to get an instant and sometimes fatal infection. That's real world. If someone on the street walks up and takes a chunk out of your arm with their teeth...you better go to the hospital and get a shot.

Zombies carry a very active form of the virus(or whatever...the TV show describes it like a fast acting meningitis so it might be a form of bacteria and not a virus) plus they're rotting corpses so it's very likely that getting bit simply results in a very bad infection that is immune to antibiotics. How fast it kills depends on the person so...likely it depends on how healthy that person is at the time they're bit. Cutting off the limb if it's bitten before the infection spreads will save that person which is the same with heavily infected wounds in general. Lee's arm isn't cut off until after he passes out which means the infection has already spread beyond the arm. They didn't do it fast enough. Of course if the infection kills you, you turn because that's how it works in this universe. You turn no matter how you die.

[Gudmoore]

" I'll make it as simple as possible. The bite doesn't spread the virus. Everyone is already infected."

yep. Obviously, yes you did. ¬_¬

For one, you need to stop grasping at straws; you pulled out a miniscule piece of my post and claimed that is what the whole thing is about. If you would care to actually read more of the posts in this topic instead of playing white knight and trying to attack me you'll notice I was combating the "bite activates the dormant virus" theories.

Secondly, I admit some of the words I used, like idiot, were inappropriate to the situation. Except lazy, I'm sticking with that one.

[Tyrant]

For one, you need to stop grasping at straws; you pulled out a miniscule piece of my post and claimed that is what the whole thing is about. If you would care to actually read more of the posts in this topic instead of playing white knight and trying to attack me you'll notice I was combating the "bite activates the dormant virus" theories.

Secondly, I admit some of the words I used, like idiot, were inappropriate to the situation. Except lazy, I'm sticking with that one.

So how does the virus spread?

[thestalkinghead]

So how does the virus spread?

everybody has the zombie virus but nobody knows why everybody has it, it's probably airborne but it doesn't matter because unless kirkman says otherwise everybody is infected and if you die you turn unless brain damage caused the death or happens before you turn, dems da rules

[Tyrant]

I know how it spreads, I was asking Gudmoore to see if he'll pop another blood vessel.

[thestalkinghead]

I know how it spreads, I was asking Gudmoore to see if he'll pop another blood vessel.

well you used my troll blind spot, if you ask for help i don't see the trolling :D

[Pickles312]

Think about it this way, you have a virus of sorts in your body, but it's so small that your body can keep it at bay until one of two things happen: You die, causing the virus to have no trouble controlling the body with no fight against it, or the virus get tremendously boosted by a bite putting in more of it which allows it to overpower the body immune system and turn you.

[thestalkinghead]

Think about it this way, you have a virus of sorts in your body, but it's so small that your body can keep it at bay until one of two things happen: You die, causing the virus to have no trouble controlling the body with no fight against it, or the virus get tremendously boosted by a bite putting in more of it which allows it to overpower the body immune system and turn you.

no bites and the zombie virus are unrelated, but bites kill you and if you die you turn into a zombie unless brain damage caused the death or happens before you turn, dems da rules

[Master of Aeons]

It's a lot easier to explain when you stop saying "virus" and start thinking "magic".

[thestalkinghead]

It's a lot easier to explain when you stop saying "virus" and start thinking "magic".

the zombie magic is in everybody it is only death that releases its potential, their bites are imbued with a permanent death hex that always does critical damage and blocks healing

[Master of Aeons]

Unless healing kills them.

[TealBlue]

Sorry for those multiple Teal posts. The forum automoderation feature had confiscated these posts upon posting (possibly decided they were too long), so Teal probably thought they were lost and wrote them again in slightly different form. I approved these posts just some hours ago, so they all popped up right now.

There's no spamming going on here. :)


Sorry about the long posts, i thought i might have something, but looks like others already thought of it, and i forgot about not being bit, which sorta voided my theory. Anyway, sorry for the long posts.
:(

[TealBlue]

no bites and the zombie virus are unrelated, but bites kill you and if you die you turn into a zombie unless brain damage caused the death or happens before you turn, dems da rules



What Pickles said
:)
-Teal

[Warge]

everybody has the zombie virus but nobody knows why everybody has it, it's probably airborne but it doesn't matter because unless kirkman says otherwise everybody is infected and if you die you turn unless brain damage caused the death or happens before you turn, dems da rules

I'd say the culprit lies in the intestinal bactarias - we have up to about 1000 SPECIES of bacteria on our guts (and poo consists of about 60% bacteria, which is a pretty good indicator that you shouldn't reuse what you have eaten). Any of these are very happy to take over our body when we die and don't have an immune system to keep them in check.

So in a zombie apocalypse: a bite will kill but not turn you because of the infection (think of the infection as a very potent ebola or something). After a person dies, either from the bite infection, hanging or whatever, the intestinal virus makes jumps of joy and takes over the body via the nervous system - which is easily accessible.

[thestalkinghead]

I'd say the culprit lies in the intestinal bactarias - we have up to about 1000 SPECIES of bacteria on our guts (and poo consists of about 60% bacteria, which is a pretty good indicator that you shouldn't reuse what you have eaten). Any of these are very happy to take over our body when we die and don't have an immune system to keep them in check.

So in a zombie apocalypse: a bite will kill but not turn you because of the infection (think of the infection as a very potent ebola or something). After a person dies, either from the bite infection, hanging or whatever, the intestinal virus makes jumps of joy and takes over the body via the nervous system - which is easily accessible.

i dont know if i understand what you are saying, but i think you are saying that the zombie "virus" (or whatever it would be classified as) lives in the infected's (everybody) intestines

[BlackPaladin]

I'm pretty sure kirkman didn't make his zombie virus bacteria in our crap.

[Warge]

i dont know if i understand what you are saying, but i think you are saying that the zombie "virus" (or whatever it would be classified as) lives in the infected's (everybody) intestines

Pretty correct - if it is a virus, it could actually live dormant in the intestines bacterias.

[thestalkinghead]

Pretty correct - if it is a virus, it could actually live dormant in the intestines bacterias.

maybe but its more likely in the brain because what if you were killed by having your lower torso removed? from what i have heard you would still turn, but we don't even know its a virus, we just call it "virus" and "the infected" because that is just easy to understand, but it could be some kind of parasite it could be nanites it could be an alien organism or an prehistoric earth based organism that had been frozen and dug up by scientists from the Antarctic or the deep seabed that is unclassifiable by normal tests it could be magic it could be anything