...my thoughts about 203 so far

[taumel]

are:

This episode starts like a pure nightmare, in the office *again* and i have to talk to Sybil *again*. Why can't i buy just some dynamite, put it into Abe's ears and blow him up? The DeSoto game isn't good *again* (Paperboy), seems they are running out of ideas here. Hell could be less painful...

Puhhh i made it out of there and went to good old germany.

The castle is modeled very nicely and the lightning is good whilst it also could have been a little bit darker and more dramatic. What i really like is the rain. Is this a texture animation or is it just one placed with offsets? Very nice with the little drops!

I like the sound when you throw up the brain (wonder what it's thinking) to the Gargoyle's bowl. Generally i do like zombies but why on earth do they must have a rave party? This sucks! I would have enjoyed much more such an atmosphere like with Iggy here... ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=y4hPnZUMBwA ) I like that there are zombies and it would have been nice if there would be some work to do on the graveyard, or a garlic/shovel-minigame. Just more vampire like stuff to do...

I lookep up the solution for the song contest in the ttg walkthrough because i'm not interested in getting it out on my own, just too boring. A question pops up my mind: A few years after video games showed up game magazines printed cheats for games which really were strange sometimes. I still wonder if they a) came out during cracking, b) people searched for them by intention, c) if the publisher or developer leaked them or d) if they were released on purpose in order to enlarge the life cycle of a game in a magazine after the reviews.

I didn't get why the phrases should be funny at all. Nice comments on the fake books. The camera would have been much better if it would have been place on an asymetric ellipsoid inside the middle and with 360° movement. I like the dead undead fish swimming upside down. Maybe they could place it in the office bowl.

DJ Booth has some nice buttons like parents and subzero(!). In the poem it's written Jürgen and the rest is Jurgen, ah okay...nnnggggaaaahhhhh Nice music when you step out of the castle again and i like the bat flying around in the background, i love such little details.

Oh no, gaming hell level II, the masters of recycling did it again, you're in the tv station with all the... looking up the walkthrough again and right clicking to go through this as fast as possible, click, click, click, click ,click

Back to the castle, there are some texture issues on the floor at the doorway. Whilst i hate beeing at the tv station, it's a nice riddle. They just should have made it in another way.

Wau i had a hard time coming up with the holy water. The comments on the posters are great and made me laugh! The first time i feel well in the game. A little bit too much travelling with the DeSoto. Yesss, Sam&Max turned undead, i was hoping for this.

><> to be continued ><>

[NickTTG]

do you have friends?

[Mysterysheep]

do you have friends?

Ha ha! :D

[Anvilania]

Are you agenst the awsome point of Playing as Max er Sam in Max's body at the near end of the game or something?

4 words: THE GAME WAS AWSOME!!!

[NickTTG]

i don't think he's gotten that far yet :( nice spoiler tags though

[marsan]

I think he ran out of correction fluid/whiteout

[Dangerzone]

yeh... i was sympathetic to him and his opinion regarding 202 (i agreed with him there somewhat) but i am begining to doubt if we can make this guy happy at all :rolleyes:

LET THE FLAME WAR BEGIN!!!!

[splash1]

WOOT :)

[Zeek]

i am begining to doubt if we can make this guy happy at all :rolleyes:Only if TT lets taumel design the game from start to finish. Then we'll see what kind of posts get put up when the tables are turned.

[Dangerzone]

yeah... we really need to drive it into this guys head that the art team can only make 3 new locations between each episode... with minor adds/changes to a handfull of others (i dont have the quote that told us this, but i know it is on this forum somewhere.. can someone with no life please dig it up and quote it for us please?)

re-vamping old locations gives us more to do in the episodes... and thus, makes the games longer... and everything is NOT the same, because they always change the lines for when you click things each episode, does this mean nothing to you tummel?

ill probably bet hes happy we dont get to see boscos in this episode... meanwhile, i was actually kinda bummed out (i would have loved to have gone in there and seen his recent adds to his conspiracy wall, and seen the mess made cause hes gone) but i know why it was cut... the size of the game, this one was over 130 megs.. which is large for a sam and max episode... so i can sympathise with that

[ShaggE]

While I agree that Taumel's posts have been mostly negative for awhile, he *is* just giving his honest opinion.

[flipperthepriest]

his opinion sucks! My only consolation is that a fool and his money are soon parted :P

[Eater]

I stopped reading when I got to the part where you seem to not like paperboy and decided your opinion, in fact, does not matter lol.

[Jake]

Taumel likes to hate. Adventure game fans like the pain, and the hardest hardcore Sam & Max games more than any, it seems. That said, taumel, I wish posts like htis were more than you just groaning loudly in my face for hours, with the occasional self-satisfied punctuations of "ah you did exactly what I wanted for a second, and for that second alone I don't hate you."

[Dangerzone]

jake, dont worry about him... it just sounds like he needs to get laid or something :D

i like how even when this guy has something "nice" to say... it still sounds like a put down "I hate the whole game, and i hate seeing all these beloved characters again, but i like this, and that is cool... yet i cant even give an honest opinion because i didnt even bother playing half of the game... kill me"

so if all this is "old" and you are tired of seeing things *again* why dont you tell me what happens in the next 2 episodes... because im diying to know

[ShaggE]

Didn't do more than skim his post at first, I rescind my earlier defense since he was resorting to insults.

What I don't understand is, wasn't Taumel a productive member back during Season 1? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Either way, I'm disappointed to see this. His "review" is not much more than a thinly-veiled verbal attack on TT. You don't have to like Sam & Max, (it's not everybody's cup of tea), but don't treat TT like they are out to screw you over.

[taumel]

I thought after 202 it would be interesting to note what you feel more in detail whilst playing the game and as i had to swap to the walkthrough anyway it wasn't hard typing in a few lines in the editor after the taskswitch. And please note these are thoughts, this is not a nicely cleaned up review.

It might sound harsh to fanboys but well that's not what i am as the ideal adventure game i would have in mind would look different (i guess i'm more the "road movie"-adventurer instead of the "do things at your base, go out and return to your base"-adventurer). In my opinion there are ups and downs in the game and the downs are often due to the same reasons. As i've payed for the game and am not working for the marketing department of ttg i guess it's quite fair writing down your impressions of the game. It's kind of amusing how some can't cope with critics again. They have no problems with serving you the same stuff over and over again but they get thin skinned when you criticise that. Beside of that it seems that as soon as you criticise certain things people get blind for the positive things you've mentioned too.

[Hero1]

I don't like reused locations at all, but you can be constructive with your criticism, plus you lost me when you just skipped straight to a walkthrough. Don't people remember how to play adventure games anymore? We didn't have walkthroughs or the internet back in the day..and hey telltale has implemented a hint system.. When I was trying to figure things out in 203 I did explore all the locations and dialogue so I feel I got the full experience in the game.

[taumel]

As i've written before we already had this "choose the right phrase" idea several times before and as on top it wasn't an interesting one, a new idea or even funny i rushed through this and the first tv part with the walkthrough. The rest has been solved without looking into the walkthrough. I've got better things to do in my freetime than forcing me to solve boring stuff. And yes i remember solving adventure games without walkthroughs and so did i till 203 but i also want to be entertained in the time i'm doing so.

[Hero1]

I've got better things to do in my freetime than forcing me to solve boring stuff.

I don't think anyone has a gun to your head forcing you to play the new Sam & Max episodes :cool:

[taumel]

Well, as i've bought the season already i also will play through the episodes but i take the opportunity to skip the boring parts with walkthrough shortcuts by now.

[Zeek]

TTG should not post the walkthru then for the next episode. I spent a good half hour on that puzzle on my own before I looked on how to solve it with the hints system on medium just because I want to feel clever like that. I even took a break from the game when I couldn't figure out how to beat the rap battle when I thought I did.

Furthermore, and this is just my constructive criticism, the original post doesn't sound like any constructive ciritcism was given. The only thing that sounds remotely like it was to change the camera angle of the culb so that it would rotate in a 360 pan. It mostly sounded like general bitching to me about how the puzzles were boring/uninteresting/unoriginal and how playing the game is not worth it... whatever "it" may be. Maybe if there was more of the whole "I don't like this, but this would make it better" instead of the "We're doing this again? I hate it!" absolution method to the comments, people would take you seriously.

[marsan]

I liked the puzzle logic in this episode a lot better than the puzzle logic in the first and second episode. The only time I had to look at the walkthrough was when I didn't understand where to find the heart of gold, but when I looked up the solution I was thinking "I can't believe I didn't notice that chocolate heart before".

Also, this episode had a good story and I liked how it progressed in a natural way, and even how you were able to visit old locations without having to be there for such a long time that it felt like a chore.
I still think Abe Lincoln must die was funnier, and Culture Shock is the funniest. But apart from that, this episode was the best episode so far, when I consider all the other factors.

[Erwin]

The only critique I can think of is that they made the castle scenes too beautiful, and now need to update the street and office scenes to match that level!

--Erwin

[Eater]

let me get this straight, you used a walkthrough to figure out what to say at the poetry contest, and what to do at the tv studio. I was probably done with those puzzles by the time you got sam and max minimized!

[ShaggE]

As i've payed for the game and am not working for the marketing department of ttg i guess it's quite fair writing down your impressions of the game. It's kind of amusing how some can't cope with critics again. They have no problems with serving you the same stuff over and over again but they get thin skinned when you criticise that. Beside of that it seems that as soon as you criticise certain things people get blind for the positive things you've mentioned too.

No no no no no. Your original post could have been about Mario for all it matters. The point is, the only times you mentioned something positive, you slathered it with large amounts of sarcasm, to the point where I could actually hear your eyes rolling. What you posted was not a criticism, it was a trolling attempt, pure and simple.

You're expecting them to magically produce a new "Sam & Max Hit The Road" every month, which just isn't possible.

[Chuck]

You're expecting them to magically produce a new "Sam & Max Hit The Road" every month, which just isn't possible.
Or desirable, actually.

There'd usually be a year or two-year wait between releases of SCUMM games, and that was about the right length of time. I used to avoid walkthroughs and hints as much as I could, so it'd take me a couple of months to finish one, and by the time the next one came around, I felt like it was time to play.

With Season Two, we're already seeing comments from people to the effect of, "Episode 3 is out already? I haven't even started episode 2 yet!" I know I wouldn't want to have to keep up with games much longer than the episodes in Season 2, if they were coming out every month. I'd get oversaturated. And I love the series "Lost," for example, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to see a full-length "Lost" movie every week.

I'm encouraged that most people are finally getting what we're trying to do with the Sam & Max episodes and how to approach them. The format's not going to work for everybody, obviously, but it's futile to keep expecting them to be something they're not, and in fact something we don't even want them to be. It's disappointing when the games don't work for somebody, but inevitable. I really liked forum poster Linque's attitude towards the whole thing: I appreciate what you're doing, but it's not for me.

[Howitzer]

Well, I just finished 203. Thoughts:

Right off the bat, with the intro cutscene, I loved this episode. I was a bit disappointed with Moai Better Blues, mostly because the puzzles were too easy, but this one had just the right mix of head scratchers and humor. And it wasn't too short, either.

Random specific thoughts:

Stutgartt was beautiful. The darkness, combined with the awesome rain effect, combined with the ridiculous disco floor was perfect. I loved the way that Sam and Max would dance whenever they stopped on the floor. "Sub-Zero" was cool, too.

This was, I believe, the first auto mini game that didn't involve either shooting other cars or running over stuff. When it started up and I realized it was Paperboy, a huge grin appeared on my face.

Revisiting Midtown Cowboys was great, too. I wouldn't have liked a big elaborate puzzle there, but the quick "Addict him to (garlic) smokes" thing as a quick trip back to the earlier episode before getting back to the zombies was fun (and simple to figure out)

The gun fight with Jesse James' hand was clever.

Although there were a lot of puzzles that make me think for a bit, there were only two spots that really had me stumped (as in, I wandered around in the game for over half an hour not knowing where to go or what to do). The first was making the Holy Water. I did assume that Holy Water would come into play eventually, due to Superball's comments, but I didn't realize I'd have to make it myself. Of course, once I did solve that puzzle, it seemed obvious. (They always do.)

The other spot that had me stumped was what to do with Lincoln's brain once I had it. Again, popping it into the monster's head should have been obvious, but I just couldn't figure it out for the longest time. Still, I *did* manage to finish the game without resorting to the walk though at all, so they couldn't have been too hard.

All in all, I think this was an awsome episode, second only to season one's Abe Lincoln Must Die, and it has restored my faith in TT.

[zozenka]

well, taumel, if you're done with your unnecessary comments, I'd like you to consider something: a lot of effort has been put into the making of this game and the developers can't always make a game that'll suit everyone's taste.

as for the walkthroughs...they were made to help out a SERIOUS gamer, not an idiotic bitching dumbass like you who obviously can't face the fact that he can't stretch his brain once in a while and presents his stupidity through childish criticism.

if you don't like the game - don't play it. it's as simple as that.
now get back into your mouse hole and grow a brain already!

[Zeek]

if you don't like the game - don't play it. it's as simple as that.Too bad that only works for games and not for other things. :rolleyes: "If you don't like America, get out!" comes to mind.

[Chris1]

This season, I've made a point to try and finish the game without using the hints at all.
Made it through episode 1, and right to the end of episode 2, only to give in and ask for a hint on the last puzzle.

I nearly made it through episode 3 without hints as well, but in the end I needed one hint to show me what to do to defeat Jesse James' hand. I had spent the previous two hours repeatedly looking for Jesse James' body in order to give him the Malt Liquor. I failed to pick up that Sam's comment had been misdirection, and not a hint.

[taumel]

I guess they'll continue to offer walkthroughs as they want this to be a smooth experience and as they've increased the difficulty of the puzzles some will find them too hard, also with the integrated hint system. By the way you can also google for them and i suspect the way the internet works that there are walkthroughs for 90% of the world online already before you can play the game due to the one day the games come out for gametap/usa sooner. Actually i think this is a good idea and they should also offer this for the episodes before (if they haven't done already) in order to provide some help for those who have problems.

Why it shouldn't be possible to do a more ongoing story like in Hit the road is beyond me. The process wouldn't be any different as if you do it this way, it just would be less annoying due to hopefully beeing less repetitive.

Yup you could have been more constructive and provide examples of how each point could have been done better but is this the job of thoughts? Not really...and it would have been more work whilst it wouldn affect the gamedesign of what is to come.

But just as someone has mentioned the mini game. It's not a new game idea. Now you could argue that it's a hommage to the 8bit title Paperboy but even then the game insn't enjoyable at all. You just for once drive your car to one side and click click click until you've the amount you need to finish the game. This is so easy and simple. It doesn't matter if you target the zombies (no maybe irritating moves) or if you change the sides of the streets (why aren't zombies at least positioned in a way that you have to change the street sides and follow somekind of track?). You will still be able to finish the game with a lot of time beeing left. I miss some gamedesign and a little bit of balancing inside which makes the game interesting. It's just like the DeSato game before no challenge at all which makes it kind of superfluous.

[Yohmi]

I'll only post two sentences, and it's my only thought for this whole topic. Taumel is officially a troll. Useless to try to have a debate with, he lost the part of "giving your opinion to make a better game for everyone" and made it "giving my opinion to make an ideal game for me".

[Zeek]

Why it shouldn't be possible to do a more ongoing story like in Hit the road is beyond me. The process wouldn't be any different as if you do it this way, it just would be less annoying due to hopefully beeing less repetitive.
Backtracking. Remember, even though you can splice up HTR into several episodic acts based on the locations they use, you still end up backtracking to most of them at least once, with very few exceptions (unless you grabbed the black light from the office, then there's no need to go back to that location).

In essence, you'd still end up having the same elements that bother you, which is repeat locations. Once you get to the final episode and they introduce the Bigfoot's crisis and the totem poll puzzle, you'll find out that you'll have to go back to Bumpusville that was in the middle of the season, the Celebrity Vegatable Museum and the Mount Rushmore Bungee Jump and Dino Theme Park from the previous episode, and the handfull of locations that are involved with the Mystery Vortex Snowglobe that easily spand the season.

Oh, sure, you may start the episode ina new location with new characters every time, but you just end up revisiting them eventually, especially if the designers purposely make it so that a background element cannot be picked up until you need it, which was rarely ever the case in HTR.

[Guybrush_Threepwood]

I think taumel's problem is that he doesn't like episodic format. He can't stand it. I've learned to enjoy it, so I don't agree with his opinion, but I respect it. My advice for him is to try accepting episodic games for what they are, or stopping playing them.
Episodic format is made like this, if you want old style point'n'click entertainment you'll have to wait for AVS to be released. Honestly, I can't wait to play AVS just because I miss some adventure games features that we'll never find in any episode of S&M. But, again, a full-lenght point'n'click game can't offer what you can get with episodes. That's all, I presume.

[taumel]

><°> continuing ><°>

Back to the game and back to germany. Flint Paper, surprising.

Wow a lab! Yes oh joy and even with a Frankenstein's monster! Oh where is the switch, where is it?! Ah okay have him awake. What i really like is the music and the mood here. It reminds me of the violine in the radioplay of Adam's Hitchhiker with the scene were they are sitting in the restaurant at the end of the universe. I also like the accent the monster is speaking and how this scene is setup. Very well done! Only the mexcian ruined the mood.

Okay another DJ-Trigger, don't know what this should be good for but let's try it out. Putting brain into...okay i can't find out anything more to do here so i guess i'll have to go back to...Sybil *buahaha*...and there we are again back in pain *sigh*.

Hey that was pretty challenging getting the heart of gold. Took some time till i got the chocolate and found out that the antenna is the key. Nice one!

Again a hard one to come up with that you also have to talk to Stinky to move the hand around the glass. And some more driving. I wonder why you always have to confirm that you really want to change the location. Was this an issue in the tests? It's a little bit annoying.

Okay i'm through...it was nice beeing in control of the monster at the end.

It definately improved in the second part and i've enjoyed the difficulty of the riddles so i give it a 7/10. If it just would be less repetitive like a good road movie...

fin

[Randulf]

The only critique I can think of is that they made the castle scenes too beautiful, and now need to update the street and office scenes to match that level!

--Erwin

The castle exterior is quite resource hungry; this is the only time the game choked (skipped dialogue, etc) on my GeForce 7300GS at 1400x900.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Glad you liked the last half, Mr. Taumel. Just out of interest, what has your favourite episode been so far (from season 1 and 2)?

[ShaggE]

><°> continuing ><°>

Back to the game and back to germany. Flint Paper, surprising.

Wow a lab! Yes oh joy and even with a Frankenstein's monster! Oh where is the switch, where is it?! Ah okay have him awake. What i really like is the music and the mood here. It reminds me of the violine in the radioplay of Adam's Hitchhiker with the scene were they are sitting in the restaurant at the end of the universe. I also like the accent the monster is speaking and how this scene is setup. Very well done! Only the mexcian ruined the mood.

Okay another DJ-Trigger, don't know what this should be good for but let's try it out. Putting brain into...okay i can't find out anything more to do here so i guess i'll have to go back to...Sybil *buahaha*...and there we are again back in pain *sigh*.

Hey that was pretty challenging getting the heart of gold. Took some time till i got the chocolate and found out that the antenna is the key. Nice one!

Again a hard one to come up with that you also have to talk to Stinky to move the hand around the glass. And some more driving. I wonder why you always have to confirm that you really want to change the location. Was this an issue in the tests? It's a little bit annoying.

Okay i'm through...it was nice beeing in control of the monster at the end.

It definately improved in the second part and i've enjoyed the difficulty of the riddles so i give it a 7/10. If it just would be less repetitive like a good road movie...

fin

There we go! Now that's more review-like. Also, this comes to mind: "He likes it! Hey Mikey!" :p

[TrogLlama]

With Season Two, we're already seeing comments from people to the effect of, "Episode 3 is out already? I haven't even started episode 2 yet!"
Wait, where have you seen that? If it was my comment on the 'we moved back the 203 release date' blog post, that was only because I hadn't bought the full season yet.

[Boscofan]

This episode is the most gruesome so far. The length and difficulty was suitable for those who have played some earlier episodes, but wouldn't suggest it as first episode to play for anyone.

[taumel]

@GuybrushThreepwood
Hmm hard to say... For season 1 i think i would pick out either episode 5 or 6 whilst i still think that the scene before the theatre in e1 screamed after adventure and i thought i would have a chance getting to the black hole and i really loved the monkey at the entrance. e5 had a very nice gameplay, introduced the cops and great chip music whilst in e6 i loved beeing away from earth on the moon, i liked the shop, the lunar lander and the crystals.
For season 2 i would take out the first half of 201 (in contrast to 203 the phrase riddle (with the record) for instance was fun there) and the second part of 203. 202 mostly wasn't my thing beside of when you had to play sam&max as children.

@ShaggE
Nope, it's the same style like in the first half just with the difference that i liked the second half more which might be something that you like more. Anyway obviously i'm glad that i could enjoy the second half.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

@GuybrushThreepwood
Hmm hard to say... For season 1 i think i would pick out either episode 5 or 6 whilst i still think that the scene before the theatre in e1 screamed after adventure and i thought i would have a chance getting to the black hole and i really loved the monkey at the entrance. e5 had a very nice gameplay, introduced the cops and great chip music whilst in e6 i loved beeing away from earth on the moon, i liked the shop, the lunar lander and the crystals.
For season 2 i would take out the first half of 201 (in contrast to 203 the phrase riddle (with the record) for instance was fun there) and the second part of 203. 202 mostly wasn't my thing beside of when you had to play sam&max as children.

Would you say that you enjoyed season 1 more than you are enjoying season 2?

[taumel]

Why are you asking? Looking around if there are any wires connected to a lie detector or hidden cameras around - mum?! *winking*

Also hard to say as s2 is not finishjed yet. From what is known already and if i would see the episodes not connected with each other i guess i would say s2 because the riddle difficulty is more my thing (i like a mix of easy ones and a few harder ones in between, s1 was only offering easy ones in my opinion) and max has improved a lot. They generally behaved too well in s1. And oh we mostly got rid of the poppers!

On the other side if i switch on my memory then the usual annoying things get more and more on my nerves (bull seeing red colour), like beeing in the streets, talking to the same people over and over again. This felt better in s1 as you were not so much used to it yet. I just dislike the repetitive stuff, may it be riddle recycling, the same characters again and again or pressing slightly different ideas into the car miniGames.

But if you think objective about it, s2 is the better one so far.

[Zeek]

I just learned that the Rap Riddle is the same as the Sword Fighting sequences from CMI. Just out of curiousity, how do you feel about that repeat riddle format?

[Chuck]

Wait, where have you seen that? If it was my comment on the 'we moved back the 203 release date' blog post, that was only because I hadn't bought the full season yet.
No, it's from other message boards & blogs. I'd never say you guys aren't playing the episodes fast enough; you guys are nuts! :)

[tobar]

No, it's from other message boards & blogs. I'd never say you guys aren't playing the episodes fast enough; you guys are nuts! :)

Where are these boards and blogs?

[octochan]

I loved this episode! I admit I'm biased towards funny stuff involving zombies, but I thought it was really well done. I was only frustrated on a few puzzles, mostly involving getting cigs into the club, Jesse James hand, and finding out what the antenna was for.

I only have a few nitpicks to make, and most of them don't even have anything to do with the gameplay. First, I thought the zombie shooting sequence scrolled just a little too fast for me. If it were even a tiny bit slower, or maybe if the zombies were more easily distinguishable from the background and random objects whizzing by, it wouldn't be quite as annoying. Your mileage may vary.
Second, there were bolt cutters in this game. Bosco's is locked up from the outside. I believe the logic is obvious, but I was denied this option! :)
Third, maybe I haven't watched enough soap operas or angsty teenage sitcoms, but I thought Sybil was pretty harsh on Jurgen's monster. Sure, she was recently dumped and bitter, but she could at least have given the 'man of her dreams' a chance before running back to her ex?

Oh, and when you release the season disc, I expect any and all outtakes incurred during the recording of lines regarding how Sybil's contestants are good with their hands. :D

[ShaggE]

Nope, it's the same style like in the first half just with the difference that i liked the second half more which might be something that you like more. Anyway obviously i'm glad that i could enjoy the second half.

I beg to differ. You mentioned a couple of negatives in the second half, but they didn't come off as "abrasive" like the first half did. Either way, woot for proving my "trolling" comment wrong :p

[taumel]

@Zeek
Yep i's kind of equivalent but a) it's not integrated in a bigger concept like the swordfighting was, b) i find "You fight like a cow" a thousend times funnier than *can't remember a phrase* "Yoho blabla..." and c) the swordfighting is more interesting as you strike, the opponent strikes, one after each other and there was a graphical feedback too. Although i found the phrase stuff suited very well in Ice Station Santa.

[Dangerzone]

i think he just likes to be miserable

someone should tell this guy what happens when sam and max bring a gun to a knife fight.... why sword fight when you can just shoot things, or no... even better, why bitch and moan about a game that is ment as light hearted entertainment for a few laughs and some nice puzzles for 8.95 each?

you can say you dont like something without digging at it...

how can i honestly respect your review when you came into the game already disappointed and pissy... you see nothing nice about it, all you see is things to complain about... and reading your posts, it almost seems like you find abratury things to say are "Nice" so that your posts seem like more than just outward complaing all the way through.... and now you are just trying to justify yourself and kissing up to everyone cause it turns out you actually LIKED the damn episode after you finished it....

next time, if you dont have anything nice to say or if you dont at least have the ability to say something in a nice way... dont say it

rewiewing is more than just saying "it sucks, you should have just remade this old game that i liked" you need to have a honest unbiased opinion, and rewiew the game as a whole, not in chunks... and my opinion is, yes... in some ways they could do better, and i believe they will, but for what they have to work with, and the time they have to do it... i am nothing more than impressed with this recent episode, and bottom line... i loved it

and as for the story... they are indeed conected, you are just to narrow minded to see the ongoing themes of the season... and most of the conections are far too out there to be guessed or noticed ahead of time, but i have the feeling that by the start of episode 5, you will have a very good idea of what is going on in the background this season

and you are also being completely condescending as well... how can they do a ongoing story, without a few re-occuring characters and character based locations, when you watch a tv show.. do you say "i hate these actors, lets get a completely new starring cast" or "i hate these sets and locations, lets find/make new ones" no.. you dont

but on some level, i agree with you tummel, if they reuse locations, they need to do more than add new things and dialoge each episode... they need to change things like camera angles (and other ambient things) to make the location feel fresh, and re occuring characters need to be freshened up as well... new wardroabe and whatnot, so each episode they give you something new to look at...

for example.. the new camera angle in stinkys during the shootout let us see some things on the wall we could not see before... and in some ways it made the location seem cool again... but sybils, was almost the same as it was in the begining of the first season... i really wish they did more with it, like have damage from being tossed a city block... move the furnature around, etc. and as for the street... change the time of day each episode, have the trash pile up more and more.. have the damage get worse and worse from each attack, add a few more clickables each episode, etc. i like how the office progresses each epsisode... now do the same for the street and stinkys

now.. see how i did that tummel, that is called "creative input" and ill be damed if someone dont listen to some of it cause i said it in a nice way, and actually gave some "ideas" not just saying, "it should have been like.."

[Zeek]

@Zeek
Yep i's kind of equivalent but a) it's not integrated in a bigger concept like the swordfighting was, b) i find "You fight like a cow" a thousend times funnier than *can't remember a phrase* "Yoho blabla..." and c) the swordfighting is more interesting as you strike, the opponent strikes, one after each other and there was a graphical feedback too. Although i found the phrase stuff suited very well in Ice Station Santa.

What about the sneeking in of Holy Water, which is the same recycled riddle as shoplifting the snowglobe from 106?

[taumel]

Nope, as i've written i found it good in Ice Station Santa.

[Nerdlinger]

Personally, I found it to be my second favourite episode so far! The look, the feel and the sheer inventiveness of the shifting game dynamics and bizarre (but logical) puzzles made me really excited to see what would happen in the next 'segment' of the episode.

I actually think that these 're-used locations' are a real boon and one major advantage of the episodic system. Each episode a new 'set' is created from scratch that allows the game-world to grow slightly each time, evolving as the series progresses.

Also, I really hope that TellTale WAS referencing Grim Fandango with the song contest. a)He stole our song lyrics! and b)I swear I heard those same beat-nik drums that used to follow all of the lines in the Blue Casket.

Ahh well.

[TrogLlama]

What about the sneeking in of Holy Water, which is the same recycled riddle as shoplifting the snowglobe from 106?
Not quite the same.
I admit, it is incredibly similar, and as soon as Superball told me that I couldn't bring in the cigarettes, I knew something like that would come up, but having Jurgen drink his blood is a bit different than making him throw it up.

[Zeek]

True, but you still had to get the item pass the bouncer, which is still similar in that respect.

[Smollie]

Man, I just loved this episode! Great gags, great locations and I love the fact that charachters (new and old) pop-up when you least expect them. And I do love the ending of this one, where I can't wait to find out what's going on!
A real episodic cliffhanger ending!

This episode, heck this season, feels more coherent for some reason and I could almost taste that sensation of playing one big game. I think it would be cool if for the season 2 dvd TT would present the games as not 5 seperate bits, but as one big-ass flowing chunk where you would flow from one episode into the other. I think that would be awesome!

Oh well, I think this episodic gaming is fun, but I also think a full scale Sam & Max adventure game by TT should be an option.

Keep up the good work, people!:rolleyes:

[taumel]

@Nerdlinger
That's interesting as i'm still waiting to see the benefit of episodic gaming for the gamer. I see plenty of pros for the developer but not this many for the gamer.

One thing which might look as a benefit is that a game is cut into smaller chunks which are kept away from you and you so get the impression of that there is more to play as you can't play through it in less but longer gaming sessions you decide the length of. Another pro might be that you can pick out certain episodes but i wonder how many really do this as i would suspect that either people stay away from it or play it completely but maybe i'm wrong on this one. What i don't see as such a benefit is that you can influence the coming up episodes as the number has decresed from 6 to 5 and when i read things right they are alread producing more or less with something like two epsiodes in advance which narrows that.

For the content i don't see the benefit. Everything could be done in one complete game as well as in a game which is cut into episodes if you design the game according to this. On the contrary in practice this isn't happening. We have all the recycling and it also includes repetitive riddle design already in one episode, like do thing a for x times like convincing Jurgen of something, then do thing b for x times like getting the phrases for the song contest, doing thing c for x times like pressing the right buttons and then doing thing d for x times like getting all the parts for the monster in order to get him through with sybil. On top of this you have this in all episodes, taking Ice Stantion Santa as an example again: providing four horses, getting x phrases right and going through three portals. I don't mind if something like this shows up from time to time but when you're looking at the episodes released in s2 so far then this happens quite often and i doubt that you would bring it up this often if you would be doing a game which people can play in a row.

As written before it's a matter of taste if you prefer more the ongoing road movie or the a return to your base approach. I think the first leads to a better, more interesting and unique gaming experience but is also harder to do. Obvioulsy you also could do it in an episodic format.

Another point i don't understand is the argumentation that you can't expect more as you're only paying $9 for an episode. In the end it counts what a season is worth. For me that's what do i get for the money i've payed when i'm holding the season DVD in my hands. If i sum it up then sam&max is a little bit cheaper than other full price game i bought in retail i was interested in like Jack Keane for instance (but the gaming experience is much less repetitive in Jack Keane) but this is due to the $-€ conversion rate and that you can buy the game via the webstore. So also a game with full length would benefit from this.

TTG is very good at marketing and getting their games to the customers. They are really doing a great job here and selling through a lot of channels like:

1) Selling it to gametap, also with the one day exclusive.
2) Selling the game through their website.
3) Also getting the customers which aren't so fond of web stuff only by offering the DVD after the season is done.
4) Offering the game via Steam.
5) Publishing the game for normal retail via another DVD.
6) Offering the game for the local retail market by working together with local publishers which also do the localisation for them.
7) In the future porting the game to other systems like consoles as well (hopfully mac someday too).
8) Selling all the merchandise stuff around and offering things like the soundtrack.

I really don't grudge them their success and after all it seems that TTG is really getting something out of their work. I suspect it's much more than other delevopers do so i also assume there is a solid finance base for working on the games which also should include making some of the things true which are missing yet.

Anyway after all the only thing that counts is the game. Now if you get asked by someone who is new to adventures of what to play best. I'm sorry but i still recommend playing the old LucasArts pearls first and only after that some of the new adventures. And that is a measurment of how good an adventure really is.

[TrogLlama]

tamuel, I think your problem is that you're stuck in that mindset where nothing can beat the original LucasArts adventures, and you need to get out of that rut. If you put those up there as the pinnacle, then nothing will ever go above your nostalgia. The old LucasArts is gone, you have to move on and not be in the 'this is perfect, so you should be like this' mindset you have.
Also, please note that I'm not putting down the LucasArts adventures, they're great games.

[Zeek]

Isn't there an article floating around somewhere where someone from TTG (I want to say Dave, but who knows who really wrote it) explains the benifits of episodic games for the casual gamer?

I think that's the key difference there. Some people like to sit in front of a game for 60 hours and get the full experiance (a la Final Fantasy). Others just don't feel like spending that much time as it would suck the enjoyment out of them. Personally, I like both formats if the story is engaging enough.

[Blehboy]

I understand how one could complain about the repetitive aspects of these episodes, but that's definetely part of episodes. I mean TV shows all take place in similar environments, and in Sam and Max, TellTale is simply doing that same sort of thing and keeping things familiar to the gamer, yet also adding new environments to go to. It's really the best of both worlds.

As a side, how can one complain about the same old thing in these episodes, when season one, by those same standards (not that I agree as I'm loving the Sam and Max episodes coming out, they get better and better), has the same, if not even more repeting.

Why buy season two, when you must've thought after 6 episodes that this is what you would get?

[Nerdlinger]

I'm sorry but i still recommend playing the old LucasArts pearls first and only after that some of the new adventures.

Oh, I completely agree. I mean these episodes aren't up to the quality of Hit the Road or the other classic Lucasarts (or Sierra) adventures - but they're still good fun, and until fully-fledged adventures get big sales numbers again I'm reasonably happy to be fed these tasty little morsels every month. Let's see how A Vampyre Story pans out; maybe it will satisfy my adventure-game lust for a while longer (and might suit your taste more).

Either way, any fan of the classic adventure series of yesteryear is okay in my book.

[taumel]

Yep i agree they are enjoyable (sometimes more sometimes less) but they don't play in the same league as the old ones but why does it have to be this way?

In my opinion one part of the problem is how they use the episodic format. What confuses me is that adventures seem to be the only game genre which experiences this. If you're looking at other genres then you'll most likely find better games which showed up time after time and replaced each other.

There are better games for role playing than Ultima 2 or the Bard's Tale nowadays. [By the way there is a nice old skool indie rpg at http://www.basiliskgames.com/book1.htm .] Same for fps or racing games, ... No one would recommend the original Doom anymore or PitStop because they have been replaced by better games already more than once.

But adventures? There it hasn't happened yet. We have nice 3d gfx (sometimes they could use a little bit better texturing), nice sfx where you only could wish less compression, the engine is smooth and working but the core the story, the riddles, the characters (by the way the monster is a great new character, i wonder if it has been influenced by AVS) and these things have not improved, they are still behind of what we once had. I don't see a logic reason see why it has to be this way. I really hope that they aren't just satisfied with the games done so far and we'll at some point see again games of such a quality so that you don't have to dig out one of those old adventures anymore if beeing asked after great adventures.

Oh man you can't imagine how great it would be if someone would come up asking for a great adventure and you could just say: "You're looking for a great adventure? Run fast and try to get one of the last copies of Marooned on Planet Zombie. It's about two weeks old but i'm not sure as i haven't slept a long since i've played it."

[Gresman]

Hi Taumel!
I just wanted to tell you that i'm not able to understand what you are bitching about. I really like the episodes. I also like the old school adventures. They are all great in their own special way.
You also mentioned that old games were replaced by newer ones. But i still play games like settlers II, dungeon keeper 1, warcraft II and so on. i dont think that newer games are necessarily better.
now about full price adventures. i recentliy played overclocked (will be released in the US in March i think - i am from austria thats why i was able to buy and play it - it is already released in germany and austria). it is quite a nice game but it is more repetetive than any of the sam and max episodes. you play for about 25 hours you have 3 locations and i think a total of 15 npcs. puzzzles are hardly existing and noone says anything to hint you what to do next. so you see full prize games are not always good. the only good thing about this game was that it had a cool story. but now the point of this whole story: i think i like it better to pay around 25€ for 5 episodes with a playtime of circa 3-4 hours each instead of playing a 25 hour game with gameplay flaws for around 30-40 €.

as i said before you begin bitching about something really good play something not as good.
thats my two cents

by the way: what is AVS?
i hate abbreviations!

[Murray the Chao]

Agreed! Anyway, I WOULD recommend the original DOOM... with DOOM Legacy, of course!

Also, keep in mind that I still LOVE old Adventure games like Quest for Glory, King's Quest, Monkey Island, Maniac Mansion, and, of course, Hit the Road!

[Jake]

One thing I like about episodes that you don't get from more long-form games is the community and discussion that builds up between episodes. You get that sort of thing between sequels, but I very much enjoy that there are monthly impression/discussion threads, as well as multiple ongoing threads about the developing story, which everyone gets to participate in together as it unfolds (instead of everyone going home and sitting alone for 30 hours and then maybe finding some other people to discuss it with, and then maybe the conversation picks up two years later when sequel rumors start). That may not be a positive for you (it might actually be a negative, who knows), but it's something I've been surprised by, and am really enjoying, and it's definitely not an experience you get with other formats of games. (with the exception, maybe, of some MMOs)

[The Stinger]

The passed 2 years have given us more Sam and Max game humor than the last 15 years after Hit the road was released. So hooray for episodes. :D

[Gresman]

i totally agree with the stinger

[Zeek]

In my opinion one part of the problem is how they use the episodic format. What confuses me is that adventures seem to be the only game genre which experiences this. If you're looking at other genres then you'll most likely find better games which showed up time after time and replaced each other.Well, they tried to do that with Half-Life, and we all know what happened with that as far as getting the product out to customers. But then again, I'm not a fan of shooters. I don't mind the occational shooting sequence (Freddy Farques comes to mind), but I just don't like FPS since the multiplayer games got so overtly serious. Whatever happened to multiplayer games you play with your friends for fun? Oh wait, that's what Mario Party is for?

[taumel]

I think HL2 is better than HL. As for the HL-episodes, well good for them but a real HL3 for sure would have been the better game if you're looking at the two episodes released so far.

I remember the most multiplayer-like fun with games which worked on a split screen or playing such games as Decathlon one after each other, so i'm not a Multiplayer gamer at all but you can't deny that WoW improved quite some things.

@Jake
Yep the community is a plus of epsiodes but the focus should be on the game and not on the fuzz around it.

@Gresman
I also don't think that newer games are automatically better but other genres have brought up good successors whilst the adventure genre wasn't really able to.

[Gresman]

i'm quite fond of the hl episodes. they are really nice. each episode is about the size of half of half life 2 which is nice.
i think there are good successors to adventuregames. i think about titles like black mirror or moment of silence these were really good and intense.

[TrogLlama]

Well, they tried to do that with Half-Life, and we all know what happened with that as far as getting the product out to customers. But then again, I'm not a fan of shooters. I don't mind the occational shooting sequence (Freddy Farques comes to mind), but I just don't like FPS since the multiplayer games got so overtly serious. Whatever happened to multiplayer games you play with your friends for fun? Oh wait, that's what Mario Party is for?
I have to agree with the sentiment here. Personally, I don't really play online multiplayer too much, although this may have to do with the fact that the biggest online games all seem to be shooters, which I don't like very much.

[Smollie]

One thing I like about episodes that you don't get from more long-form games is the community and discussion that builds up between episodes.

That's an interesting point, Jake. Never thought about that aspect.
What I like most of all, is that you TTGers are active on these forums too.
It's making you very accessable. Something I find seriously lacking in some other companies around the globe.

ps

Hey, this is my 40th post!
Woohoo, after one year!

[doom saber]

Is it me or does the director looks more tired out than in episode 2? I don't recall her being sleepy eyed before.

[Zeek]

That's because most of her close ups were of her giving Sam & Max the evil glare.

[Toast60]

by the way: what is AVS?
i hate abbreviations!

I think it's A Vampyre Story. Could be wrong though. =x

203 is (to me) the best episode so far. It was juuuuust long enough, and the intro (and outro, too!) was great, probably the best since A.L. Must Die. Characters were great, Superball was back, Flint shot stuff. Also, the controlling-Sam-as-Max ending = so gud. So very gud.

Can't wait for 204, more episodic gaming please.

[Gresman]

That raises the question: How can you reference a game that isnt released yet?
I have to say that i could be wrong in this point.

[Zeek]

That raises the question: How can you reference a game that isnt released yet?
I have to say that i could be wrong in this point.

If my research into Monkey Island as proved anything, it's that yes, you can... even if the game will never be released.

[Gresman]

Yeah i know that it is possible that im wrong and yes i know i can reference games that are not released yet. DNF is a good example. But i still dont get what AVS is.

[Sir Lemming]

Do you play video games for enjoyment? Because it seems like you don't enjoy these games. Why do you keep buying them?

By the way, people were BEGGING for the chance to re-visit locations from previous episodes, since it makes it more like an old-school adventure game where there's a big backlog of locations to explore. And now that they finally do it, people complain that they're being lazy.

[TrogLlama]

Do you play video games for enjoyment? Because it seems like you don't enjoy these games. Why do you keep buying them?

By the way, people were BEGGING for the chance to re-visit locations from previous episodes, since it makes it more like an old-school adventure game where there's a big backlog of locations to explore. And now that they finally do it, people complain that they're being lazy.
There's just no satisfying some* people.

*This can and should be interpreted as 'all'

[jaden551]

this fourum sucks there is nothing interestinhg

[TrogLlama]

this fourum sucks there is nothing interestinhg
...
How does one respond to that?
If you don't like that the discussions are slower-paced (which is what I'm getting from this post), then may I recommend the Nintendo Power-On forum? I can guarantee that you will be able to find a new and quite likely unique brand of stupidity at a rapid pace. I know, I used to be a member.

[Gresman]

i dont know the nintendo power on forum. i can offer something similiar to what trog suggested. try any world of warcraft forum. there you are able to find mostly stupid and pointless discussions with randomly mixed in post including some clarity of mind.

[NickTTG]

this fourum sucks there is nothing interestinhg

oh man guys. we totally misinterpreted what he said. there's no way an intelligent guy like jaden would spell anything wrong. I mean look at what he wrote! he just left out some punctuation.

i think he meant: "this four, um... SUCKS. there is nothing interestin', H.G."

he just forgot to add the link on the H.G. (http://www.hg.org/) Who doesn't love "legal directories worldwide"?

[Haggis]

oh man guys. we totally misinterpreted what he said. there's no way an intelligent guy like jaden would spell anything wrong. I mean look at what he wrote! he just left out some punctuation.

i think he meant: "this four, um... SUCKS. there is nothing interestin', H.G."

he just forgot to add the link on the H.G. (http://www.hg.org/) Who doesn't love "legal directories worldwide"?
Actually, I think he might have had a little conversation in his mind with H.G. Wells there, discussing his novel The Time Machine. Apparently, Jaden here thought that four dimensions were way too many, but H.G. Wells foolishly declined this kind advice. Had he followed it though, I am sure that he would have had sold many more copies of the book, and at least 5 feature films made out of it.

(Also, for extreme, fast-paced insanity, might I recommend any GameFAQs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/) forum - especially the SSBB one (http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=928518)?)

[NickTTG]

nice catch haggis!

[Guybrush Threepwood]

(Also, for extreme, fast-paced insanity, might I recommend any GameFAQs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/) forum - especially the SSBB one (http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=928518)?)

:eek: That truely is insane. Every time I refreshed a new thread went to the top.

[ShaggE]

:eek: That truely is insane. Every time I refreshed a new thread went to the top.

Hehe, if you want fast-paced, there's none faster than a certain image board involving a group of anonymous posters. :p (I remain vague due to the mostly family-friendly tone of this forum)

EDIT: Woohoo, post # 1,000! I have no life! :D

[TrogLlama]

Hehe, if you want fast-paced, there's none faster than a certain image board involving a group of anonymous posters. :p (I remain vague due to the mostly family-friendly tone of this forum)

EDIT: Woohoo, post # 1,000! I have no life! :D
No. Just no.
Remember children, there are some things you can never unsee. NEVER. UNSEE.

[ShaggE]

No. Just no.
Remember children, there are some things you can never unsee. NEVER. UNSEE.

This can be prevented by making sure you do a barrel roll after every viewing. Just tap Z or R twice, and you're home free. :p

[Mafioso]

...
How does one respond to that?
If you don't like that the discussions are slower-paced (which is what I'm getting from this post), then may I recommend the Nintendo Power-On forum? I can guarantee that you will be able to find a new and quite likely unique brand of stupidity at a rapid pace. I know, I used to be a member.

ITT: Tools get trolled twice.

[delimew]

(Also, for extreme, fast-paced insanity, might I recommend any GameFAQs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/) forum - especially the SSBB one (http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=928518)?)


agreed. GFAQs boards are the very pinnacle of extreme, fast-paced insanity. (http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=938652/)

[Haggis]

agreed. GFAQs boards are the very pinnacle of extreme, fast-paced insanity. (http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=938652/)
It's so fast, the topics have already moved on to Web 3.0!

[Gresman]

their topics are web 3.0 but not as stable as ours. so i think its better to be stable than advanced

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Better late then never. (http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/sammaxepisode203nightoftheravingdead/player_review.html?id=552985)

[Jake]

My favorite part is where you call us lazy! :)


Honestly, nice review though. Glad you liked the episode.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

My favorite part is where you call us lazy! :)


Honestly, nice review though. Glad you liked the episode.

Oh God, did I actually leave that part in? I could have sworn I changed that line ages ago when I was writting it because I decided it was too harsh.

And no, I'm not being a suck-up - it's all true! :p I'll go change that bit now.

[Jake]

No, lame. Don't wimp out on your dream of being a scathing games journalist!

[Guybrush Threepwood]

No, lame. Don't wimp out on your dream of being a scathing games journalist!

You're right! I've changed it to the following:
TellTale games are just downright the worst video game company that I've ever set my eyes on. Not only is there scientific evidence that they are causing world hunger, but they also aren't making a Monkey Island 5 (or Bone 3 (http://www.gopetition.com/online/14474.html)).
(yeah, I had to annoyingly slip that one in!)

[tredlow]

Reason for why I love ep203:

I love zombies, I don't care if I have to kill 'em or save 'em or party with 'em, or anything 'em. Being near a zombie in a videogame really relaxes me, unless I have a chainsaw, then I just couldn't resist.