Episodic? [Archive] - Telltale Games Forums

anonima

11/12/2005, 07:23 am

Please don't do episodic web releases, because quite frankly, they [edit: are not good*] (no, not that rabbit)! I want to goto my local software store and purchase a copy of Sam & Max! I want a box, I want a manual, and I feely things, damnit!! Double the price, triple the price, I don't care! I do NOT want a bunch of 1's and 0's on my harddrive, I want them on a full-color-labeled CD! Don't tell us you can't, and don't tell us you won't; just make it happen, and you won't regret it!

[*edited by Heather for family friendliness]

artwking

11/12/2005, 07:56 am

I'm sure that whining is going to change Telltale's mind... Online distribution is the future of digital entertainment. That is the way things are going to be, so it's best to just accept it now and move on. We had punchcards, cartridges, 5 1/4" disks, 3.5" disks, CD-ROMs, DVD-ROMs, next we'll have HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray, and that'll probably be the last physical media we see. Everything else after that will be online, on demand, and at your fingertips. Just not in them. Telltale is simply getting a head start at this. You don't want to be like those old farts who don't understand technology and can't even program their VCRs, do you? For your own sake, get with the program! You're going to miss out on great stuff if you keep living in the past.

Just give Telltale a chance and I'm sure they'll deliver to you many entertaining adventures so fast and so often, you'll be thanking them that you don't have to make so many trips to the retail stores, saving your room the fate of being converted into a warehouse of full of worn out, scratched CD-ROMs and rotting cardboard boxes crushing each other. :D

anonima

11/12/2005, 09:17 am

Yah. Beggars can't be choosers eh?

Alternatively, you could try and convince Steve Purcell that you can do a better job, and then make it yourself :-)

Seriously tho, I'll take it any way I can get it. So to speak....

..ahem. Is this thing on?

anonima

11/12/2005, 10:42 am

anonima

11/12/2005, 10:50 am

Man, so many complaints about this!

Who said it wouldn't be localised?

Perhaps they could release a boxed version every 3 episodes. Who knows. Would you rather have no Sam and Max? Seriously. I mean, your english seems good enough to post in here.

anonima

11/12/2005, 12:38 pm

Man, so many complaints about this!

Who said it wouldn't be localised?
Sure, no one said something about the localisation, but show me a hint about it for Bone!

Perhaps they could release a boxed version every 3 episodes. Yeah, i buy a Movie in Episodes too or wait for the Box^^
Who knows. Would you rather have no Sam and Max? YES!
Seriously. I mean, your english seems good enough to post in here. Yes and every Adventurefan in the World speaks english^^

anonima

11/12/2005, 12:55 pm

Sure, no one said something about the localisation, but show me a hint about it for Bone!

SNM is a much larger license than Bone, purely because it comes complete with a world-wide installed userbase already.

Yeah, i buy a Movie in Episodes too or wait for the Box^^

Surely a TV series would be a better analogy for this type of game release method?

Who knows. Would you rather have no Sam and Max? YES!
There you go. Don't get it then, and the worldly balance is restored.

Yes and every Adventurefan in the World speaks english^^

No. Like I said, this is a larger affair. You said it yourself. German and French, even Croation games are localised into english, because it's just more prevalant. That's called good business.

I mean, I just don't get it. Everyone desparately wants Sam and Max to return, but then you all [*edit: whinge] and moan and whine that it isn't being released in the way that you want?. You want it your way or not at all. Be grateful, or be gone, really. Not happy? Fine then. Don't buy it. Problem solved.

Telltale will do what they believe is right, and if there is a large enough complaint about it, then perhaps they will release a boxed version at the end of it, or even at the beginning. Who knows. But to say you wont get it because of something like this is just childish.

[*edited by Heather -- let's avoid non-kid-friendly words folks.]

anonima

11/12/2005, 01:04 pm

It´s sad really. But some people always have to [*edit: cry] about stuff it seems. The german attitude thing is right though I´m affraid. I´m from Austria, where we speak german too and even my friends who do speak good english want their stuff dubbed and localized to death really. Since in the german language zone we got dubbed movies from the beginning, most people are so used to it and got too lazy and ignorant to realize that english is now a global language which should be standard for anyone with halfway decent schooling. I personally wouldn´t touch a dubbed or localized version of anything anymore if I have access to the original. Unless its for my dad I get stuff exclusively in english. (Unless it´s made in another language, then I get it original with subtitles if possible of course.)

[*edited by Heather -- let's keep it friendly.]

anonima

11/12/2005, 03:49 pm

that english is now a global language which should be standard for anyone with halfway decent schooling.

ooh, my professor that teaches "english as a global language" would've HATED that statement. :p

Regarding Episodic-format, it means I won't be abel to buy it, since I don't have VISA or any international credit-card. Oh well, it'll be nice reading about it anyway.

anonima

11/12/2005, 07:11 pm

I'm sure that whining is going to change Telltale's mind...
I was complaining, not whining. There IS a difference.

Online distribution is the future of digital entertainment. That is the way things are going to be, so it's best to just accept it now and move on. We had punchcards, cartridges, 5 1/4" disks, 3.5" disks, CD-ROMs, DVD-ROMs, next we'll have HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray, and that'll probably be the last physical media we see. Everything else after that will be online, on demand, and at your fingertips.
Now THAT sounds familiar...oh yes... I heard it twenty years ago! Oh, and wheres my damn flying car!?

Udvarnoky

11/12/2005, 09:21 pm

Sure, no one said something about the localisation, but show me a hint about it for Bone!

SNM is a much larger license than Bone, purely because it comes complete with a world-wide installed userbase already.

That's not true at all, actually. Sam & Max is pretty obscure in comparison to Bone, which does have a world-wide installed userbase already.

That said, it would be a huge mistake for Telltale to not offer the game in multiple languages and they know it, and they will be offering localized versions of Bone in the future (they've said so). I hope the localized versions are available immediately next time, because one of the good things about online distribution is that it allows everyone to get the game at the same time regardless of where they live.

Udvarnoky

11/12/2005, 09:22 pm

Please don't do episodic web releases, because quite frankly, [*edit: I don't like them] (no, not that rabbit)! I want to goto my local software store and purchase a copy of Sam & Max! I want a box, I want a manual, and I feely things, damnit!! Double the price, triple the price, I don't care! I do NOT want a bunch of 1's and 0's on my harddrive, I want them on a full-color-labeled CD! Don't tell us you can't, and don't tell us you won't; just make it happen, and you won't regret it!

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE!!!!

:)

Udvarnoky

11/12/2005, 09:31 pm

ThIs sucks!
I wont buy a game sold in episodes and not localized.
I'm from germany, and here most adventurgamer has this attitude.

They should make a full price game in a nice Box for collectors and localize it.

Hmm...this seems very familar to me. Oh yeah, I have heard it before, except one time it was "Americans" instead of Germans and the other time it was "Norwegians." "Hi, I'm from country name here and since everyone in my country shares my opinion I speak on behalf of them therefore you have to sell the game a certain way because we're more collectors here than anyone else and we like boxes more than anyone else."

Localization is important, but I don't get this whole thing about how one country likes boxes more than anyone else. Maybe Telltale's decision to release their games a certain way had reasons behind it. Who knows?

anonima

11/12/2005, 09:53 pm

have you guys ever heard of iTunes? everyone wanted a cd right? and now millions of sales later..

get with the future or stay stuck in the past..

anonima

11/12/2005, 11:14 pm

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE!!!!

:)

The difference is that I can still play Sam and Max Hit The Road, I can still play Monkey Island 1 and the Goblins games.

Let's say (hypothetically) that Telltale do an Ally McBeal game, closely followed by a series of Fluffy The Hamster Slayer titles, all of which perform bysmally and unfortunately ultimately result in Telltale closing its doors due to financial preassure and terrorist threats.

Or let's say (hypothetially that Telltale forgets its roots and starts disrespecting its fanbase by cancelling long anticipated titles and erasing all existance of their original works (al-la Lucasarts).

I've got a CD with Sam and Max on it. I've got a set of floppy disks with MI on it. Aside from the fact that I love having physical things I han hold and use like t-shirts, soundtracks, manuals, maps, etc., I've got a hard copy and if I have a hard drive crash, or get my machine stolen, or the world's telecomunications networks explode in a firey iferno, or the game is taken off the shelves, I can still play my much loved games. If a title is available via an online distribution only, then it's available for only as long as it suits the people who operate the servers (not that I'm implying that will be a problem, it's just nice to know that there's a less transient copy in my CD rack).

At any rate, I'm glad the franchise is being revived.

jp-30

11/12/2005, 11:41 pm

I've got a CD with Sam and Max on it. I've got a set of floppy disks with MI on it. Aside from the fact that I love having physical things I han hold and use like t-shirts, soundtracks, manuals, maps, etc., I've got a hard copy and if I have a hard drive crash, or get my machine stolen, or the world's telecomunications networks explode in a firey iferno, or the game is taken off the shelves, I can still play my much loved games. If a title is available via an online distribution only, then it's available for only as long as it suits the people who operate the servers (not that I'm implying that will be a problem, it's just nice to know that there's a less transient copy in my CD rack).

I hear they make CD burners for home computers now.

anonima

11/12/2005, 11:59 pm

I hear they make CD burners for home computers now.

Doesn't bone have one of those annoying installers that grabs the resources from the online servers, pretty much only allowing you to install it on a computer connected to the internet?

anonima

11/13/2005, 12:20 am

Teltale have already said that they'll make the game available / unlockable by other means if the company goes under. Which it won't. (touch wood)

anonima

11/13/2005, 12:23 am

I hear they make CD burners for home computers now.
Does that mean TellTale has access to CD burners, too?

Look at the price they are charging for Bone, $20. Good price, right? Sure, but its only PART of a game, and the cost will add up. Give me all the 'episodes' in a box for one price, and I'll buy it.

I hear all this talk about TellTale being a startup company that has little money and resources, and they need to use this format to make ends meet at the end of the day, I don't buy into that. TellTale now has two products under their belt, if they are indeed still aching for money, maybe they need to rethink their distribution plan. Startup companies can indeed still succeed by releasing their products to retail (DoubleFine comes to mind).

Nobody has been bashing, whining, crying, or anything else in this thread, so why the harshness from everyone? We are voicing OUR opinions, please forgive us if they are not the same as yours.

After all is said and done, I will most likely still buy S&M regardless of what 'format' it is released in, and I do have faith in TellTale's commitment to the project, but if I want to dream about living in the past, I will.

anonima

11/13/2005, 12:28 am

Teltale have already said that they'll make the game available / unlockable by other means if the company goes under. Which it won't. (touch wood)

Yeah, but I expect such 'other means' are going to rely on outside variables.

*touching plastic vineer*
(It's the closest thing to wood that I've got next to me)

artwking

11/13/2005, 01:11 am

Look at the price they are charging for Bone, $20. Good price, right? Sure, but its only PART of a game, and the cost will add up. Give me all the 'episodes' in a box for one price, and I'll buy it.
Great! All you have to do is just sit quietly and wait several years for all the of episodes to be released, wait a year or two beyond that for the game to be published to disc and maybe a nice box (although the trend in game boxes is that they've gotten smaller - they'll probably end up in DVD cases, which is fine by me), and then you can buy it. Problem solved! All you have to do is wait 5-6 years for that super long length game. :D Now everyone's happy! Nothing has changed. It's ultimately not going to take them longer to make the entire game series for releasing them episodically/periodically. So if you have the patience, please, just wait, and you'll get to play it all at once. I just don't see how demanding Telltale to do their games in one shot is going to change a thing in this case. People who want to buy episodes as they come out are going to do that, and people who want to wait for a full length, compiled episode game series are going to do that. Everyone has to wait, but not everyone has to wait for it as long. :) It's kind of like complaining to TV stations for presenting their episodes weekly instead of back-to-back, all in one day, or forcing us to actually tune in at a specific day and time, instead of just immediately releasing it on DVD so we can watch it at our leisure, and own it, and not have to deal with commercials, or those stupid station logos in the bottom left corner! (Ooooh I hate those!) Hehe... it's just kinda silly.

I hear all this talk about TellTale being a startup company that has little money and resources, and they need to use this format to make ends meet at the end of the day, I don't buy into that. TellTale now has two products under their belt, if they are indeed still aching for money, maybe they need to rethink their distribution plan. Startup companies can indeed still succeed by releasing their products to retail (DoubleFine comes to mind).
Double Fine had the funding of a major publisher. Well, two actually, but not at the same time. ;) So it's really not the same thing. Telltale does have investors, and now it has revenue. I heard in an interview that Telltale is quite pleased with the financial return on their games so far. :D

anonima

11/13/2005, 01:24 am

What about on a thumb drive? =P

So, your saying, you want the game to be in the sneakernet? Not the internet?
Sneakernet? look it up on wikipedia.com

Also, it will end up on your hardrive as 1s and 0s either way.

Theres another thing: WHY NOT DO BOTH?!?!?!?! You can download it, or buy it from a store? Why? Some people cant buy stuff on the internet, like me... And some people buy stuff only from the internet. Why not do both????

Guybrush_Threepwood

11/13/2005, 12:31 pm

WHY NOT DO BOTH?!?!?!?! You can download it, or buy it from a store? Why? Some people cant buy stuff on the internet, like me... And some people buy stuff only from the internet. Why not do both????

This is the best thing I've read from this thread!
Telltale, make all of us happy and do them both! :D
Another thing I have to say: I think that our doubts about the episodic format are due to the fear of having lots of mini-adventures instead of a BIG COMPLETE one.
It's not a matter of downloading the game or buying it in a store (also if I'd prefer to find it on the shelves).
The problem is: MAKE A COMPLETE ADVENTURE, not lots of mini-episodes. Please, guys :((

anonima

11/13/2005, 12:51 pm

It´s amazing how some people blame a small developer for computer game market facts and the way they try to make the best out of the situation.

You can´t compare Doublefine to telltale. As said before Doublefine had a publisher deal(first MS which then got canned and now Majesco). They made a platformer btw, which is probably at least a 1000 times easier to pitch to a publisher. Also I´m not sure how well the sales of Psychonauts are doing, if you got hard numbers about that, I´d be more than interested to see them. I bought psychonauts off the doublefine shop from America when I saw its available. Which was more by accident, because it seems that it wasn´t that advertised for at all. Hell it´s yet going to be released in Europe. Surely it wasn´t the localization either, because last time I checked the UK wouldn´t need the product translated.

I like shiny packaged stuff too, but I prefer getting a good Sam & Max game to nothing. Lucasarts had probably not too little funding for the game and decided that adventure games just don´t sell enough anymore these days to keep developing it. So if that means I have to get the game as online download to get it at all, thats fine with me. Even if I could choose, I´d take the direct route, just so the developer actually gets the most money and not the publisher, store chain or anyone else.

I understood the uproar when EA tried to force the games into DVD cases only and get rid of the boxes. Since it was clear that we won´t see a dime of the savings they make due to reduced store space and packaging costs. But here its about a small developer. 2 products you say? Wow, thats like a guarantee that telltale is rich and now can do whatever they want. After all bone probably sold more copies on its release day than half life on its whole lifecycle...

Guybrush_Threepwood

11/13/2005, 03:01 pm

I think ALL OF US (except that guy that wrote here before) would prefer episodic SNM episodes instead of nothing :)
But what I'm trying to explain is: if they just HAVE to sell it by downloading because of financial troubles, it's not a problem.
But WHY can't they do a complete adventure?
I mean, I'd rather wait 2 years for a big Sam & Max game to download, then 7-8 months for a small episode...
Don't you all guys agree with this??

artwking

11/13/2005, 04:33 pm

Hmmm... nope. :)

How about this, though... I've already talked about this, but how about you just put off buying the first few Sam & Max episodes? After two or three years, when three or four episodes are released, you can buy them all at the same time and play them straight through. It'll be just like a longer game, or even bigger. I don't see what the problem is. It's still going to take the same amount of time for Telltale to make a bunch of shorter episodes as it would for them to make a full-length game. It just means you'll have to take it upon yourself to prolong enjoyment, rather than demanding Telltale enforce it on everybody.

If you all claim to have the patience to wait for a longer game that you say you do, then you'll have no problem postponing the experience for yourself. In the meantime, the rest of us are going to enjoy the episodes as they're released. But in the end, we're all have had a satisfying entertainment experience, enjoying it in the manner we each preferred. We can all hold hands and sing songs by the fire and smile with dumb looks on our faces. It'll be great. :D

Udvarnoky

11/13/2005, 04:53 pm

Look at the price they are charging for Bone, $20. Good price, right? Sure, but its only PART of a game

Wrong. It's its own game, it's just shorter than your usual one. It's not like Telltale has this big game that they're cutting up into little parts. The games will tell a big story, yes, but the idea is that each game stands on it's own. The games are being made one at the time.

anonima

11/13/2005, 05:26 pm

IMO, from a buisness standpoint. It'd make sense to offer both the online style to purchase aswell as a usual in-store physical copy.

A TOOOOOOON of people buy games simply by goin to the store, browsing the game rack and then deciding on one.

Mr. "Joe schmoe" that makes up quite a bit of the market might not be likely to physically log into his computer and look up telltalegames and decide to buy it on a whim.

As far as "episodic" games go, like bone. I'm not a big fan of them myself.

Mainly because usually once you have bought the episodes the price of the "full" completed game ends up being more then a usual game.

So you spend $20 for 2 hours of gameplay, if it's on say 4 episodes that's $80 for 8hours of gameplay...which is kind of high imo.

anonima

11/13/2005, 06:48 pm

What we know:

1) TellTale has already lowered the price of Texas Hold'em from 19.99 to 12.99 after nine months. There's no reason to think that they won't do the same for every single Bone episode. 180$ for the whole Bone series? How can you even think it will happen? Come on....do you really think that the price of Bone 1 will still be the same in a 3-4 years time?!?!? ;)

2) A short commitment, 5-6 months of production for a miniadventure, is much more feasible: many games risk to be cancelled when their production-times last two-three years. This happened to S&MFP, FT2 and was about to happen to Psychonauts. Even Tim Schafer said that on-line distribution is the future for really creative stuff: he had a lot of problems to pitch a retail funny game to publishers and it seems he got enough of that. :((

3) Connors has promised localizations of their games. So...no problem there.

4) I am sure TellTale will provide cd/dvd-rom compilations of the episodes: they've already talked about that.

5) Sam & Max stories don't rely on epic narrative. In Sam & Max Hit The Road situations were far more important than the plot itself. Purcell's style is nonsensical and surreal: you can pack it in short stories without loosing its flavor.
Domenico (Italy)

Udvarnoky

11/13/2005, 06:58 pm

And you can still tell an epic story through more than one game, although they would have to be self-contained on their own.

anonima

11/13/2005, 07:03 pm

Some people cant buy stuff on the internet, like me...

Telltale accept Paypal payments, and I'm pretty sure that Paypal will accept money orders (which you can post), so you should still be able to get your hands on it without paying 'over the internet' (I'm in the same boat - I don't have a credit card, nor do I ever intend to get one).

anonima

11/13/2005, 07:41 pm

Yeah it´s not an easy topic and its certainly true that lots of people just pick up games in stores if they look good. Over time that might change though, if you can buy games over Amazon for example and just download them instead of getting them shipped to your house. The picking up will be even easier then.

The whole thing isn´t that companies like telltale do not want to have them in stores. I don´t even think they love the episodic thing so much that they want to do it that way at all cost. But its simple to explain. Paying artists, programmers, etc for 1-2 years without getting any revenue while working on the game is what a publisher is for, but that means you have to work on a project he thinks will succeed. Thats where you are already out if you talk about classic style adventure games today. Next thing is that once you have a publisher, he wants to have the rights to the intellectual property (just like Sam & Max was bound to Lucasarts until a short time ago if I´m not mistaken) and that he watches over your development and in case he doesn´t like something he will say "Can´t you make that blue instead?".

With shortening game development cycles by several months you cut the money you need to spend up front by a big percentage. That empowers you to create a game that is still reasonably long to stand on its own, but creates income for you more early that enables your company to survive and create more games.

Then comes the online distribution. It´s a way you can get your game out there to a pretty good share of people and keeping the costs down. Shelf space costs money, you get off the shelf fast for other games that might be bigger sellers and if you do not have a publisher I imagine it pretty damn hard to get the distribution canals opened for you at all.

If you look at it, it´s pretty much the only way this can work. You want to convince me otherwise? Call up one of the big name publishers then and ask them if they would fund a game like Sam & Max and distribute it. I think some wouldn´t even say no, but just laugh into your face.

Udvarnoky

11/13/2005, 10:05 pm

A TOOOOOOON of people buy games simply by goin to the store, browsing the game rack and then deciding on one.

Well apparently not enough of those people buy adventure games, otherwise companies wouldn't have to search for other means of distribution. Fear of low sales are the reason so few good adventures are made nowadays, and why companies like LucasArts get to the point where they cancel even the most popular of adventure licenses.

I wouldn't be surprised if Telltale later offered its games on a CD for people who for some reason can't stand to download it, but I wouldn't expect it to appear in a store. It costs a lot of money to put a game on a shelf.

Udvarnoky

11/13/2005, 10:11 pm

Startup companies can indeed still succeed by releasing their products to retail (DoubleFine comes to mind).

Depends what you mean by succeed. Double Fine spent near five years making a game and ended up getting cancelled in the middle of it. When the game finally was released it sold poorly despite being the best game to come out this year. Also Double Fine is a developer only, while Telltale is a developer and publisher, so stuff like distribution and marketing is their responsibility as is the finance required to make it successful.

I hear all this talk about TellTale being a startup company that has little money and resources, and they need to use this format to make ends meet at the end of the day, I don't buy into that. TellTale now has two products under their belt

So?

Alucard

11/13/2005, 10:15 pm

I didn't think things were like that these days. Back in the old days your box art was a big deal because there was little way to know if a game was going to be good or not. (aside from a couple mags). The rep of the company really helped too. When I first played monkey island on my uncles comp I started to watch the shelf for all games made by LA. Today with the internet people can research a game to death before they buy it. If a game averages over an 8.5 out of 10 (based on at least 5 reviews) then there is a good chance I'll pick it up if it is the type of game I like. It is a lot like movies too. If the average grade on a movie is below a B- I won't waste my time on it. life is short and there are too many games to get to.

I wouldn't exactly call telltale texas hold em a product. More like a warm up exercise or glorified demo. It was short and sweet.

anonima

11/14/2005, 07:51 am

The worst aspect of online delivery is the abysmal copy protection you get as well. I hate it like the plague, I want to be able to play my games without having an internet connection or having to rely on any servers running to install/play my game.
And what is the point anyway? Pirates will get the games anyway while buyers will be left with all the copy protection shit.
And I'm pretty sure Bone is cracked by now.. so that leaves us honest people worst off.
Honest buyers pay to get a copy protecion ridden game while pirates get the games for free without any annoying copy protection.

And I especially hate any internet related copy protection, that basically means that your game comes with a timed bomb on it.. when the company goes under, so will all the games you bought from that company. Unless they put it in their EULA that they WILL release some kind of patch, I don't buy that either.

In the future, I'm sure a lot of games will just vanish as this copy protection thing will eventually kill them off (if they manage to protect them well enough not to get cracked.. otherwise crackers will probably save the games).

Also, I prefer normal games to episodic.. episodic games are like mini episodes, it doesn't feel like one complete adventure. Bone is a brilliant example, that game had no gameplay at all and it's short and not really good at all.

anonima

11/14/2005, 10:27 am

Honest buyers pay to get a copy protecion ridden game while pirates get the games for free without any annoying copy protection.

That's an interesting concept. One that I and the rest of my small development team have discussed a lot.
Given the time it takes to have copy protection circumvented, it hardly seems worth the effort to pay someone three or four weeks worth of wages developing a copy protection system only to have it cracked within three or four days of release.

Our philosphy is/will be to make the product worth buying through a) having a fantastic game and b) offering goodies and extras in with the packaging.

Admittedly, we haven't had any commercial releases to date, but we feel that as long as the system respects the users, then it'll be well received.

An episodic release system doesn't have to be so bad. I expect the first few episodes will take longer/not be as polished, but as the franchise progresses, Telltale will be able to take advantages of resources and assets which have already been developed for previous episodes (eg: they'd be stupid to re-do Sam and Max's office for every episode), and deliver bigger, more involved and more complex episodes.

AND, it gives them time to guage what sort of reaction there is from the playing community to their work and hopefully tailor functionality and interface to match the needs of their customer base.

Personally though, I'd enjoy having episodes which were moderately self contained, but created an in-depth arc over the series. Too self containment could sort of take away from the exploration that games like Monkey Island and the original Sam and Max offered (the sort of bewildered amazement as you wandered around improbable locations and poked things).

anonima

11/14/2005, 12:04 pm

Also, I prefer normal games to episodic.. episodic games are like mini episodes, it doesn't feel like one complete adventure. Bone is a brilliant example, that game had no gameplay at all and it's short and not really good at all.

Granted, Bone 1 had some of these shortcomings, but they have nothing to do with the game being episodic. There were just design flaws (due to the fact TellTale was addressing the casual gamers public too much, IMHO). I'm almost sure those will be corrected in the following releases.
Domenico (Italy)

anonima

11/14/2005, 12:17 pm

Laffer, have you played any of the other Telltale releases. For example, Texas Hold-em.

You don't actually HAVE to be online for this. Only the once, to unlock the game, or again if you reinstall at some point.

This isn't STEAM they're talking about. The logistics of dealing with that many copy-prot queries whenever ppl want to play are probably not worth the effort for a company that has been finding its legs, and its voice.

Alucard

11/14/2005, 04:10 pm

better online protection then star force... I mentioned it in the other forum before. I was against the online thing at first too but telltale is really just trying to protect themself from piracy as much as possible.

if the protection doesn't screw up my computer thats a good thing

Udvarnoky

11/14/2005, 04:54 pm

anonima

11/15/2005, 01:49 am

The installer does work like that, but afterwards all the resource files are on your hard drive.

That's OK then!
It'd be nice if Telltale made a bit of a fuss about how it worked before you download it (that said, I've only downloaded the demo of Bone myself, BUT I was a bit irked to find I had downloaded a downloader).

apignarb

11/15/2005, 07:45 am

That's OK then!
It'd be nice if Telltale made a bit of a fuss about how it worked before you download it (that said, I've only downloaded the demo of Bone myself, BUT I was a bit irked to find I had downloaded a downloader).

True, but you can choose where to download the installer aswell. The default path is %temp%/DrDld or something, but you can change it to what you want, and back up the installer to cd or whatnot.

anonima

11/17/2005, 06:41 am

Another thing I have to say: I think that our doubts about the episodic format are due to the fear of having lots of mini-adventures instead of a BIG COMPLETE one.
It's not a matter of downloading the game or buying it in a store (also if I'd prefer to find it on the shelves).
The problem is: MAKE A COMPLETE ADVENTURE, not lots of mini-episodes. Please, guys

I think that having episodes is OK, CD format, or not. You see it all the time: Halo, Halo 2; Half Life 1-3; DOOM 1-3; but you need to have a substantial game in order to do it, so make 'em longer than a mini game.

Also if its too short, no one will buy it...

anonima

11/17/2005, 11:07 am

Most people are forgetting that Telltale is an independant developer and the reason they are making it episodic is not because they believe it's the best method for the consumer, clearly releasing the game in one large chunk and charging the consumer one lump sum is the ideal situation but being an indy developer they cant afford to do this... they cant afford to work on a game 2 years without seeing a profit, that is why indy developers are moving towards the episodic format.

Adventure games are niche... People have been saying for 20 years the adventure game genre is dead ever since Infocom closed down. It's not dead it's just past its prime and has become a niche genre.... Block buster adventure games like Broken Sword III lasted 2 weeks at EB and barely returned a profit.... Blockbuster budgets for adventure games are a thing of the past... If you want to have adventure games the only way viable is using a different economic model... episodic content allows the developers to have less crunch time and get a constant stream of revenue.

Yes I understand you all want the episodes all in a single box... but Telltale cant afford to produce all the episodes at the same time... Independant developers cant afford that, and publishers like LucasArts, Atari, Vivendi have all made it clear that they arent willing to fund large block buster sized video games. Even Revolution Studios is struggling.... however The Adventure Company has been quite successful with its medium budgeted adventure games... perhaps after all the episodes are complete they may be in a position to distrubute a boxed version... but until then.. Telltale cant afford to produce them all at once.

Whats all this nonsense about wanting it on a CD.... Just burn it.... Most games dont even come with printed manuals anymore, or if they do its in black and white and only one or two pieces of paper. Even if Telltale did release a version in a box they dont have the money to stuff it full of free extras like Infocom used to an Electronic Arts sometimes still does. Hell I I throw out boxes and all the stuff and keep all my CD's in spindles or folders anyway.... With over 5000 CD's I would need a spare house if I stored all that extra crap.

anonima

11/18/2005, 05:35 am

Alucard

11/18/2005, 07:13 am

well jerry. Hopefully you get a faster connection soon. I couldn't imagine the world in 56k ever again. Would you be willing to buy it if telltale had an online store and they shipped you a copy of the intaller? I know a lot of people say that they would buy the game if it was in the store but well at this point it is too much for this fledgling company to make a retail release. If the game doesn't sell in a retail release there is a good chance the company will go bankrupt. I know for example digital extremes would have been gone if some of their games didn't sell as well as they did when they were first starting out.

Udvarnoky

11/18/2005, 05:51 pm

Define "slow." Couldn't you just let the game download overnight? I don't see how you can't get the game.

anonima

11/18/2005, 06:25 pm

These are hardly what I'd call huge downloads for the episodes... on a 56k connection you'll probably get anywhere from 5-10kbps downloading these episodes, and since it seems they'll likely always be under 100 megabytes, it seems totally feasible to get them overnight.

I still think people who have an inherent problem with digital distribution of these games has yet to actually try it out first.

anonima

11/19/2005, 03:14 am

i have slow internet. i cant download games. i cant get faster speed it is not in my town. if i will find this game in store i will buy it. if i will only find this game online i cannot. this is my problem. there will be others with the same probem. how to fix? put game in stores. thank you. -jerry van dyke
Again, they cant afford to release it in a shop.

Besides I am on a 56k MODEM thats as fast as you can get in my town in Australia as well (without ISDN) and I downloaded it over night. Whats the problem?

jp-30

11/20/2005, 01:00 am

I'm also on 56kb dialup (that connects around 40kb), and I downloaded the Bone game in about 3.5 hours while I was out shopping.

Admittedly I would like to be able to download the installer .exe in one hit for ease of backup and so I can use a download manager like getright (so I can resume a broken download).

But still, anything under around 80 meg is easily accomplished overnight or during a school/work day on slow dialup.

Kevin

11/20/2005, 01:28 am

Actually, the download manager will resume a broken download where it left off.

Pvt._Public

11/20/2005, 07:49 am

I'm kind of torn on this. On the one hand I'm happy to see Sam and Max finally make their triumphant return. On the other hand I really, really like decent game packaging.
I like the idea of episodic. If its packed full of enough stuff to keep you interested for a while (easter eggs and alternate ways to do bits and lots and lots o' laughs) I'll be perfectly happy in having a whole bunch of not incredibly long games slowly popping up every once in a while. But what I want to see is maybe them all collected and crammed onto a few discs and sold in a spangly big box with a fancy special edition DVD and... I don't know... comics and posters or a shirt and stuff. You could stick the games in and then make the discs worth buying by sticking a whole lot of other stuff like making of etc.
Kind of like the Lord of the Rings Speical Edition DVDs. That would probably make them the best thing ever and let our friends with slow connections (I had a 56k modem until about 9 months ago) join in on the fun.
Having just read this I'm struck with just how awesome that would be. Telltale should totally do that.

Pvt._Public

11/20/2005, 07:51 am

Also, downloading over the internets is cheap compared to buying in a shop with a mark up and all that jazz. I like that.

anonima

11/22/2005, 02:52 am

Also, downloading over the internets is cheap compared to buying in a shop with a mark up and all that jazz. I like that.
i agree downloading IS cheap!! get with the program telltale! -jerry van dyke

Udvarnoky

11/22/2005, 03:21 am

Cheap?

Pvt._Public

11/22/2005, 03:29 am

Usually when you buy in a store you have to pay more because of the box and CDs and general store mark ups. Downloading just gets you the game and it doesn't have to be marked up with GST or whatever equivalent etc.

anonima

11/22/2005, 03:45 am

...
What about doing both?

Also, forget CDs and DVDs!
Use thumbdrives- more original!

artwking

11/22/2005, 04:32 am

Also, forget CDs and DVDs!
Use thumbdrives- more original!
Er...yes, original... but thumbdrives cost like $25, and that's just for a 128mb one. Add that to the cost of the game itself, packaging, and other associated retail costs. A CD or DVD cost maybe 25 cents, especially in bulk. Sorry, but selling games on thumbdrives is insanity. 8-}

anonima

11/22/2005, 11:01 am

Going through any kind of publisher will eat into Telltales profit... The whole point of episodic content is avoid a publisher... They self publish online.. Perhaps one day after all the episodes are created and they have got a nice some of money they can afford to sell it in a box through a publisher... but until then Independant developers find it very difficult.....

And the fact remains when ever adventure games are released through publishers they rarely do well.... unless have something VERY special going for it, and copious amounts of money are spent on the marketing, ie something like Fahrenheit.

jp-30

11/22/2005, 09:16 pm

Actually, the download manager will resume a broken download where it left off.

Oh, really? That's good to know. I was one of those who downloaded the original 75Mb version and had problems when my connection dropped out. Good to know that this shouldn't be a problem in future.

It's a bit hazy, but I think there was data being transferred after the dropout, but the grey loading bar reset back to zero, so it was a bit confusing as to whether the game has resumed or restarted.

anonima

11/23/2005, 05:06 pm

Here's an idea. Why not include zip files with little extras that are unlocked when you buy the game. For example for Bone, there could be a pdf file with copy of the map found in the demo or a poster advertising the spring fair.

Pvt._Public

11/24/2005, 06:50 am

Not in any way related but what are the chances of a dance sequence in the game? I know it's going to be different to Freelance Police but I would be infinitely happy to see the pair dancing like in the trailer (looky here (http://www.speed-is-everything.de/samandmax/trailers/Dance_web.mov) . Thanks for www.sam-and-max.de.vu by the way. Try looking in the forums under Memberzone for an awesome surprise everyone...).

anonima

12/12/2005, 02:36 pm

But what I want to see is maybe them all collected and crammed onto a few discs and sold in a spangly big box with a fancy special edition DVD

Hey, why not. EA does it with The Sims. :-P

And to bring up an old subject in this thread, dubbing games is unholy and the work of the Shaitan. Voice Actors never seem to be that good here in Europe. If you need to localize, I remember a game, Critical Mission, I believe. It was about a guy who lost his memory in a planecrash, and had to find out why he was on an island or something, but I digress. It was spoken completely in English, but the subtitles over people's head were in Dutch. This was very comfortable for me, since I was a kid back then.

Not that I complain about full English games, though. It taught me English. Sam & Max Hit the Road, Day of the Tentacle, ahh, the good old days. And now I score 5 out of 5 on my English test.

I'm not the only one that hates dubbing, by the way. Holland is generally very much against it. It showed when Black and White was released. People screamed foul when it was dubbed in Dutch here. Hell, Lionhead even released an English patch over it! I think it's the Germans and the French who are whining again that it isn't in their language. Can't be arsed to adapt, I guess. :-P

pippilina

11/07/2006, 06:34 pm

Episodic distribution has other advantages too...

First, no filthy greedy publisher interfering with the creative process!

Second, a closer contact with their customers (you) than with a publisher.

Third, a small company can release a game with very little capital.

Fourth, the profits come in quicker

Fifth, it's perfect for the new online distribution systems aimed at casual gamers (like gametap or xbox live)

Six, production costs are broken into smaller pieces, with smaller investment risks

Seven, as the new episodes are released, they can keep up with new changes in graphics cards

Eight, after the set of episodes in complete, you can go and buy your precious box set in a store. But Analog Distribution is wasteful and keeps prices high. You're paying for packaging, storage, shipping, box art, printing and CD pressing.

Save money and time, go digital. C'mon it's the future. You don't need big chunky plastic cartridges or CD's or DVD's.

Also, best of all, episodic distribution can be a big nasty chink in the armor of the evil publishing companies which rob most developers of their profits, meddle with their creative freedom, hold their intellectual property licenses, and bully the creative people around.