Whoa! Hold on! On-line activation? Internet Explorer ONLY?

[pennstat]

Okay, guys, I have a real problem with this one.

Exactly *what* kind of "activation" method is being used here? What if (God forbid and I hope that this does not happen) TTG goes belly up, assets get sold, and I try to reinstall the game? Seems to me like I would not be able to activate it because there is no "phone home" server available anymore. In that case I paid for something that I can no longer use but legally have a right to use.

It's bad enough that I'm being forced to use a browser that I refuse to use, but I have a deep hatred for any activation method that "phones home" and/or has the potential for preventing me from using the product at any time in the future.

Would someone from TTG kindly elaborate on this "activation" mechanism and what the customers' rights are after activation? Does the product "phone home" at any other time, such as product usage or checking up on the activation? Is "Bone" expected to have a similar authentication mechanism?

(Before anyone gets all high-and-mighty on me, I've been a UNIX and Windows system admin for over 10 years. Data security, data integrity, application availability, and customer privacy is in my blood, whether for the home or for business. Deal with it. :p )

[Alucard]

yeah things seem to be headed in this direction. just look at steam for HL2, virtual mate for other games etc. It's good in a way though, it's helping to slow piracy even if it is just slowing it. In the event TT goes belly up I'm sure there would be some sort of walk around for the security built in, there is for most things.

[littleguybrush]

yeah things seem to be headed in this direction. just look at steam for HL2, virtual mate for other games etc. It's good in a way though, it's helping to slow piracy even if it is just slowing it. In the event TT goes belly up I'm sure there would be some sort of walk around for the security built in, there is for most things.

Does it actually work? I know my roommate pirated HL2 (he's a cheap jerk). I think TT is using activation because the game is only available as a download. Hopefully Bone will be available in stores and without that activation junk.

[Alucard]

yup you can't really stop piracy but you can slow it down. I think this is the first step to doing that. Next would be having everything sever side like most of the new rpgs have. Bandwidth is getting faster and faster and cheaper too

[littleguybrush]

yup you can't really stop piracy but you can slow it down. I think this is the first step to doing that. Next would be having everything sever side like most of the new rpgs have. Bandwidth is getting faster and faster and cheaper too
I think it's the next step for high profile AAA titles, but with Bone it can only hurt sales (assuming Bone will be released in stores). There are still quite a few people out there without internet connections and since Bone will almost certainly try to target fans of the comic (who may not be big gamers) TT should keep the requirements as lax as possible, making an internet connection mandatory is not a good idea.

[Alucard]

yeah a lot of people have internet connections these days. I think your probably right with bone though in that having an online connection each time you want to play the game wouldn't be so good. I wouldn't be against it since I do have a connection all the time but it'd suck for guybrush guy who is at the army base. Maybe offer some sort of bonus to people who do the online thing.

[Burn]

I agree that it seems unfair that they only use 1 browser, but the game only works on windows computers. Don't at least 99% of windows xp/2000 have internet explorer on their computer. I can see why they choose internet explorer.

Anyway, anyone ever subscribed to mmorpg. You know were they screw you with a over the top price. Yeah that's it. You have to be online for that, and most of their systems look fine. Look, games and piracy go together. They are like Cher and plastic surgeons. Can't keep them apart. The only way you can stop piracy is to make a game nobody wants to pirate.

[SCUMM_master]

Bandwidth is getting faster and faster
Really nice shortcut :D
They are like Cher and plastic surgeons.
Could not say it better myself. Nice image [=D>]

[pennstat]

Bandwidth is getting faster and faster and cheaper tooAnd you're assuming that everyone on the face of the planet will always and forever have Internet access 24/7. Bad, bad assumption. Network failures and power outages happen. Not all networks have 100% uptime and not all computers require a plug into the wall (aka. laptops or computers on a UPS).

[pennstat]

Don't at least 99% of windows xp/2000 have internet explorer on their computerI'm keeping myself under control, because I really hate it when people try to justify that as an excuse. Just because Internet Exploiter is forced upon me via the operating system does not mean that I am under any obligation to utilize it. I am also under no obligation to purchase any game that TellTale or any other publisher makes. I understand that. But my revulsion of IE goes beyond what anyone would want to hear anyway.

What it all comes down to is (A) assuming that a network connection is always available is a BAD assumption, (B) assuming that you'll always be in business to allow people to authenticate is a BAD assumption, and (C) foring people to use a browser that they choose not to use is unethical IMHO.

[artwking]

Not all networks have 100% uptime and not all computers require a plug into the wall (aka. laptops or computers on a UPS ).
Somehow I don't think gaming on a UPS truck's computer will ever enter any developer/publisher's mind.

[pennstat]

Somehow I don't think gaming on a UPS truck's computer will ever enter any developer/publisher's mind.Smart a**. :)

[artwking]

Yep! :D

I still agree with you on several of your points though. I'm just poking a little fun.

[Burn]

Sorry Pennstat. But I was more talking about why they would have choosen internet explorer over other browsers. Anyway, why don't you like internet explorer?

"assuming that you'll always be in business to allow people to authenticate is a BAD assumption"

I don't think they assumed anything. They just have no other way of getting their games out.

[littleguybrush]

Hopefully Telltale will find themselves a publisher. That seems like the only way these problems will go away (except for the IE thing, they can hopefully change that either way.)

[Kevin]

Here's the deal....

The game can always be played (in demo or full mode) without an internet connection. The only time any internet connection is required is when the game is purchased.

We need to use Explorer for the time being because we need ActiveX. We're working on a Java solution, but it's not ready yet. We're not happy about this either.

Should we go out of business (thanks for the vote of confidence!), a patched version of the game will be made available to registered owners.


Hope that clears things up.

[Alucard]

I don't think anyone would think you guys would go out of business anytime soon but there are plenty of companies out there that have bit the dust. People are just naturally paranoid when it comes to stuff they spend their hard earned cash on.

speaking of demo.... we going to see a bone demo anytime soon?

[SCUMM_master]

Hopefully Telltale will find themselves a publisher.
I know a publisher! They used to develop adventure games but they are know essentially distributing third party games, mainly about some oscure giant space opera. Ooooops!

[pennstat]

Hopefully Telltale will find themselves a publisher. That seems like the only way these problems will go away (except for the IE thing, they can hopefully change that either way.) I can give you proof that having a publisher and requiring online activation are not mutually exclusive: HALF-LIFE 2. :(

We're not happy about this either. The fact that you're not happy about it is comforting since as you said that means that you're working on alternatives.

Should we go out of business (thanks for the vote of confidence!) Oh, now stop that. You're reading far too much into that one!

I'm just being a realist. You've got some great talent behind you, but an excellent string of games does not guarantee permanence. I'm forced to think of companies that were considered to be *the* best at video games in their day, like Epyx. (Am I showing my age with that one?) They died hard and fast.

I'm still likely going to buy Texas Hold 'Em despite my reservations in my initial post for the sole purpose of showing my support. I always like to support the newcomers that hold promise, and for the price you're offering no one has any excuse to not buy it.

Now, cheer up. You most certainly do have my vote of confidence.

[algardex]

Here's the deal....

The game can always be played (in demo or full mode) without an internet connection. The only time any internet connection is required is when the game is purchased. Bravo! [=D>] too bad not everyone has an internet connection so if they want the game they will have to go pirate [=D>] what a brilliant way to increase software piracy first valve then 3drealms and now you WHY? :((

[Udvarnoky]

I don't think Bone will be released in stores.

[pennstat]

Here's the deal....

The game can always be played (in demo or full mode) without an internet connection. The only time any internet connection is required is when the game is purchased. Bravo! [=D>] too bad not everyone has an internet connection so if they want the game they will have to go pirate [=D>] what a brilliant way to increase software piracy first valve then 3drealms and now you WHY? :((That's the real problem with most anti-piracy methodologies.

(A) Anti-piracy methodologies do not stop the hard-core ... dare I say? ... "pirates". Most games have cracks released within 48 hours after release. In some instances, cracks are available before the game is even released in stores! Fortunately, TTG's current pricing scheme and their status as a fledgling company will keep them under the radar of hackers for a while, I'm sure.

(B) They often end up hurting only the legitimate customer who now has to jump through hoops in order to utilize the game that s/he legally purchased. STEAM is the perfect example of this. Another example is the problem with older CD-ROM drives that cannot read newer, on-disc, copy protections, thus preventing the games from running. So, now the customer has to go out and spend additional money (not reimbursed by anyone, obviously) in order to play that particular game.

The other side, however, is that developers have every right to try to protect their intellectual property. There is nothing illegal, immoral, or fattening about copy-protection. The company, however, needs to balance their need for protection with the customer's need for convenience, otherwise they will risk a PR backlash that might be very damaging to the company's reputation, aka STEAM.

The legal rights of the company to employ copy-protection, however, vary. If I recall correctly, some governments require software to be copyable for archival purposes with the ability to guarantee that the software will run at any point in the future, effectively outlawing (or requiring the ability to bypass) on-disc copy protection and "phone home only" validation.

[pennstat]

I don't think Bone will be released in stores.Probably true. I doubt that TTG has the marketing muscle to afford a huge, physical media distribution chain in stores like Best Buy or EB Games at this point. (Here's to hoping that they get large enough that such issues won't be a problem!) Unfortunately, the marketing and distibution costs often make up a substantial amount of the overall price of games.

However, they might do very well to sell the game in comic book stores next to the Bone comics themselves.

[Steve2000]

As this thread is sort of going onto a slight tangent I thought I would point out another thread in which some of this stuff has been discussed:
Here (http://http://www.telltalegames.com/forum/viewthread?thread=113)

Also I don't want to speak for Telltale, but as I live within 5 miles of their base of operations I think I can speak with some authority when I say that people who live around here (San Francisco, CA) have a hard time dealing with the fact that not everyone has a broadband connection at both home and work. I am not exagerating when I say that almost everyone who lives here has that. I have been reminded many times that this is not the case everywhere in the world, but it is still hard to fathom - so cut these guys some slack. They are smart people, they will figure out a way to get everyone the games when they come out, and if not then we can complain.

[Alucard]

if it isn't in stores then I guess I won't be buyin the game sadly. I don't trust the net enough to put my card number or pretty much any info for that matter

[Burn]

I don't trust the net enough to put my card number or pretty much any info for that matter

Buck Buck Buck [~:>]

As my good old pal Confucius once said, " He who does not trust in the internet, doesn't trust in himself." Of course nobody knew what the internet was back then, but if they had, Confusius' online hat selling business would have really have taken off.

[SCUMM_master]

if it isn't in stores then I guess I won't be buyin the game sadly. I don't trust the net enough to put my card number or pretty much any info for that matter

Even though encryption on the net does not use quantum cryptography (yet...), there are some pretty good encryption algorithmes that are used nowadays, and you don't risk too much by ordering something online (If the transaction is secured, of course). When I order stuff online, I am more worried for it to get lost by the postal service...

But anyway, If Bone is not released in stores, I hope that telltale will at least sell a CD-ROM that they will ship, because I don't want to download a full two-or-three-CD game.
Broadband or not.

[Alucard]

yeah I know most companies will cover your ass if your number gets stolen but there is just something about it that seems insecure. I don't really use credit anyway. cash is king

[Burn]

Wouldn't it be great if computers could take cash. I think even the most computer savy have now and again tried to shove a wad of change down their floppy drives, just to be sure that it still doesn't work.

[Vark]

yeah I know most companies will cover your ass if your number gets stolen but there is just something about it that seems insecure. I don't really use credit anyway. cash is king


Most if not all credit card services, if you call them, will offer you a temporary credit card number. It ties back to your main account but its authorized in a smaller amout or a one time charge so you can use that 'fake' number at online retailers and it goes back to your account. If someone steals that 'fake' number and tries to use it, its one time use is up and its declined.