Why only four episodes?

[daro2096]

Seasons are getting shorter at Telltale. First season of Sam and Max was 6 episodes long. Second season of Sam and max and Strong Bad was only 5 episodes long. Now Wallace and Gromit is only four episodes long.

Credit crunch hitting Telltale?

Or are you running out of ideas?

[ig0rpwnwEd]

The episodes are just going to be longer, don't panic.

[Derwin]

I think in the past they also found from feedback that people would appreciate longer episodes, instead of more episodes. Can anyone back me up on this one?

[Rather Dashing]

I don't know. Honestly, from the last two games I felt like five was a great number. Four feels like I get too few months of games. I do hope we don't get a three-episode Sam and Max season!

How far does someone go before they're not making an "episodic" game anymore, anyway? I mean, Sam and Max was often advertised as a video game sitcom. I liked how each episode has its own identity....two to four longer games doesn't really satisfy a need for diversity.

[Emily]

I commented on this a few weeks ago here (http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=116876&postcount=31).

Episodic games are our business. That's not going to change. :D

[daro2096]

But Emily the games you been putting out lately are really three acts episodes. That is a game has three main puzzles usually with three mini puzzles attached to each main puzzle.

For example Strong Bad episode 1 had three main puzzles and that is 15 puzzles for the whole season.

Are you telling us Emily that Wallace and Gromit episodes will have 4 acts instead of 3?

I mean we are paying for 4 episodes what would cost us 5 episodes for Strong Bad and Sam and Max. The W&G games are longer I assume?

[NickTTG]

i know this has been said all over the site, but these games are taking people longer to complete than some of our other games.

lets just wait to play the full game before we start griping about the episode number and length, mmk? :)

[MussKatt]

What i've been told, and unfortunately i can't find the link, but it seems that W and G was only 4 movies in 20 years, thus the four episodes. Also, remember, this game will probably have just one season. Also keep in mind, the bone games are a 2 episode season :P

[daro2096]

What i've been told, and unfortunately i can't find the link, but it seems that W and G was only 4 movies in 20 years, thus the four episodes. Also, remember, this game will probably have just one season. Also keep in mind, the bone games are a 2 episode season :P

But the difference between the two is the four movies is clay amination which takes a long time to film whereas the Telltale games are computer generated graphics that look like clay and only take a few months to make.

I personal think Telltale just couldn't think up more than four episodes.

[Freelance Poster]

More doesn't always = better.

[Rather Dashing]

More doesn't always = better.
And? Less doesn't always equal better by that same token. How is this a worthwhile point?

More always equals more variety in central episode ideas. There are drawbacks to this as well, but they are degrees of the general drawbacks of episodic gaming as a concept. Yes you can mitigate the faults of episodic gaming as a whole by lessening the number of episodes, but benefits are lost at the same time.

The balance struck is a subjective thing, and with the small numbers we're dealing with(4-6), "just one" episode can make a very large difference, especially since one was dropped off last season.

We now have to consider the benefits and loss of the whole thing. It can't all be determined now, as we haven't picked up that final product. But we can still say:

-Less variety in main story ideas
-Less episode-specific content
-Less months of getting a game in your account for the season pass.

These can be considered either rather large, or rather inconsequential against the benefit of longer episodes and a cheaper season(though seeing that the "normal" price of the season is going to be $35 is pretty baffling to me...is it to mitigate the loss to pre-orders when you hand out episodes?). There's also the benefit that we can get to the next franchise(Sam and Max?!) sooner, but that's a somewhat indirect benefit of the detriment "We have less months with Wallace and Gromit".

It just seems like too much value was lost for what is gained, but since the majority of gains will be found by actually PLAYING the game, I might have to hold back a final judgment of the decision.

I don't think Telltale plans to get rid of episodic gaming, the whole company seems to be built specifically for the task of monthly games. But I can say that the benefits of Telltale's episodic games can be weakened a bit if we drop down to, say, a three-episode season with Sam and Max.

[Pantagruel's Friend]

(though seeing that the "normal" price of the season is going to be $35 is pretty baffling to me...is it to mitigate the loss to pre-orders when you hand out episodes?)

I don't understand this arguing really. Let's assume each Sam and Max Season 2 episode took 4 hours to complete. Now Telltale is promising that the W&G episodes are longer - it's not unreasonable to assume 5 hours (probably even more), is it?
Then for the same price, you get 20 hours of gaming in 5 episodes with S&M, and 20 hours gaming in 4 episodes in W&G. I don't feel ripped off there...

And, more on the flipside, longer episodes enable more complex puzzles. With the long long list of positives, the Sam and Max seasons only left me wanting in the difficulty department. W&G may or may not deliver here, but at least there's a chance.

[Lachlan_is]

This discussion could go forever. let me simplify this for you.
Sam & Max S1 = 6 Ep = 5 each.
Sam and Max S2 = 5 Ep = 6 each.
SBCG4AP = 5 Ep = 6 each.
Wallace and Gromit's Grand Adventures = 4 Ep = 7 1/2 each.

This could be hours, enjoyment, whatever. the point is that they all add up to 30!!
if you want 6 with 5 each have it your way. if you want 5 with 6 each do that.
if you want 4 with 7 1/2 each then do that. THEY ALL ADD UP TO 30!!!!
So no matter what you do your getting 30!

So stop going on about the amount of episodes, if sam and max season 3 was 2 episodes it would probably be the most epic season EVER. because everyone knows it would have more time, better gameplay and all that.

[Freelance Poster]

And? Less doesn't always equal better by that same token. How is this a worthwhile point?

More always equals more variety in central episode ideas. There are drawbacks to this as well, but they are degrees of the general drawbacks of episodic gaming as a concept. Yes you can mitigate the faults of episodic gaming as a whole by lessening the number of episodes, but benefits are lost at the same time.

The balance struck is a subjective thing, and with the small numbers we're dealing with(4-6), "just one" episode can make a very large difference, especially since one was dropped off last season.

We now have to consider the benefits and loss of the whole thing. It can't all be determined now, as we haven't picked up that final product. But we can still say:

-Less variety in main story ideas
-Less episode-specific content
-Less months of getting a game in your account for the season pass.

These can be considered either rather large, or rather inconsequential against the benefit of longer episodes and a cheaper season(though seeing that the "normal" price of the season is going to be $35 is pretty baffling to me...is it to mitigate the loss to pre-orders when you hand out episodes?). There's also the benefit that we can get to the next franchise(Sam and Max?!) sooner, but that's a somewhat indirect benefit of the detriment "We have less months with Wallace and Gromit".

It just seems like too much value was lost for what is gained, but since the majority of gains will be found by actually PLAYING the game, I might have to hold back a final judgment of the decision.

I don't think Telltale plans to get rid of episodic gaming, the whole company seems to be built specifically for the task of monthly games. But I can say that the benefits of Telltale's episodic games can be weakened a bit if we drop down to, say, a three-episode season with Sam and Max.

My point was, you're acting like because it's a shorter season, it's automatically not as good as previous releases. It almost sounds as if you would be more content with 9, 20 minute long episodes, just for the sake of length. You sound just like my friend who insists any RPG that isn't 80+ hours isn't worth playing.

It's been mentioned previously by Telltale that the episodes themselves are longer in general to their previous releases, and aside from some sound issues in the demo the game looks great. I also agree with what Emily said, that a shorter season just feels right for Wallace and Gromit. It almost feels to me like a 6 episode season would be an overdose. Give me a few high quality episodes and I'll be happy. I mean I've been happy with the W&G shorts so far and look at how many animations they've released. Let me put it this way, as a Wallace and Gromit fan were/are you any less anxious for A Matter of Loaf and Death, or did you automatically judge it not worth your time? It is just under 30 minutes after all.

Alas in the end none of this really matters anyway, as pretty much everything we are discussing right now is pure conjecture. Like many others and you yourself have said let's just wait until the game is out before making any judgements, but still I prefer to have an optimistic outlook opposed to doom and gloom and acting like it's the end of episodic gaming as we know it.

[MussKatt]

The way i see it, 4 episodes for this could be just fine. I paid 26$ instead of 34.95$, so right there here goes the difference. And four episodes is ok for this as i see it it would have been ok for SBCG too. It all depends on content. If the company didn't think there was enough source material to go for more, i'd rather have 4 compact quality episodes instead of 5 that feel like they drag on. Sam and Max is a game that can draw from incredible source material, so more likely they didn't run out of ideas yet!.

[Rather Dashing]

Sam & Max S1 = 6 Ep = 5 each.
Sam and Max S2 = 5 Ep = 6 each.
SBCG4AP = 5 Ep = 6 each.
Wallace and Gromit's Grand Adventures = 4 Ep = 7 1/2 each.

This could be hours, enjoyment, whatever. the point is that they all add up to 30!!
Some Product=1 Ep=30 each.

Oh hey, you got thirty, and you aren't an episodic game anymore. ;)

And my point, of course, is that you may gain less by dropping an episode than you lose, making this magic weirdo number lower.

My point was, you're acting like because it's a shorter season, it's automatically not as good as previous releases. It almost sounds as if you would be more content with 9, 20 minute long episodes, just for the sake of length. You sound just like my friend who insists any RPG that isn't 80+ hours isn't worth playing.

Canges make me raise an eyebrow and go "Is it a good idea?" Unlike the controls, I'm not certain it's a bad one from the get-go. I just lean towards the skeptical. :P

It's not by definition bad. I'm just speculating and conjecturing.

It's been mentioned previously by Telltale that the episodes themselves are longer in general to their previous releases, and aside from some sound issues in the demo the game looks great. I also agree with what Emily said, that a shorter season just feels right for Wallace and Gromit. It almost feels to me like a 6 episode season would be an overdose. Give me a few high quality episodes and I'll be happy. I mean I've been happy with the W&G shorts so far and look at how many animations they've released. Let me put it this way, as a Wallace and Gromit fan were/are you any less anxious for A Matter of Loaf and Death, or did you automatically judge it not worth your time? It is just under 30 minutes after all.
Completely different. A better analogy would be the Were-rabbit film, which I felt was a bit weak compared to the shorts, a bit out of its element. In the same vein, Telltale is great at making episodic games. By making episodes longer and taking less of them, are we messing too much with an overall good recipe?

Hell if I know. I'm just thinking out loud. :D

Alas in the end none of this really matters anyway, as pretty much everything we are discussing right now is pure conjecture. Like many others and you yourself have said let's just wait until the game is out before making any judgements, but still I prefer to have an optimistic outlook opposed to doom and gloom and acting like it's the end of episodic gaming as we know it.
Nope, it doesn't matter. But neither does much anything else we talk about, is it? Why allow the Wallace and Gromit forums to exist before the demo? It's all inconsequential. Doesn't mean we don't have opinions on what we think MAY be the pros or cons of something we've never used ourselves. And that's fine. :)

I'm by no means sure of it being a bad idea(like I was and still am about the control scheme). I just had a few thoughts and posted them. 'Tis the nature of a forum, I think.

[Freelance Poster]

Nope, it doesn't matter. But neither does much anything else we talk about, is it? Why allow the Wallace and Gromit forums to exist before the demo? It's all inconsequential. Doesn't mean we don't have opinions on what we think MAY be the pros or cons of something we've never used ourselves. And that's fine. :)

I'm by no means sure of it being a bad idea(like I was and still am about the control scheme). I just had a few thoughts and posted them. 'Tis the nature of a forum, I think.


That's something I can completely agree with :D

[leon101]

You're all hurting my brain, stop please. I would rather save my brain cells for future adventure games I play.

[The Burninator]

What I feel is that each episode has a very different feel to each, and if I'm getting four episodes, I'm getting four stories... and adventure games are all about story. There's more diversity with more episodes, and I think four months is not long enough for the series to run.

[Lachlan_is]

Some Product=1 Ep=30 each.

Oh hey, you got thirty, and you aren't an episodic game anymore. ;)

And my point, of course, is that you may gain less by dropping an episode than you lose, making this magic weirdo number lower.

yeah, but would it not be a cool game? yes, a full length ttg game (ignoring csi) would be awesometastic! cause a full length ttg game could be released on heaps of platforms and everyone would love

Btw. its not that all games add to 30, thats just an example, it could be 4.9999999938472612517946181613333333333. and 4 inches

[leon101]

yeah, but would it not be a cool game? yes, a full length ttg game (ignoring csi) would be awesometastic! cause a full length ttg game could be released on heaps of platforms and everyone would love

Btw. its not that all games add to 30, thats just an example, it could be 4.9999999938472612517946181613333333333. and 4 inches

Telltale Games, is right at home with Episodic gaming, this is indeed their bag.

[Lachlan_is]

Telltale Games, is right at home with Episodic gaming, this is indeed their bag.

Yeah, but being tied down to one type of game can become stale, its good to expand your game repotuaire

[NickTTG]

Yeah, but being tied down to one type of game can become stale, its good to expand your game repotuaire

like our upcoming MMO?

[deadlinejon]

i know that is a joke. OR IS IT :eek:

[Quuux]

I doubt TTG would make a mumorperger, they have more taste.

[Lena_P]

I think in the past they also found from feedback that people would appreciate longer episodes, instead of more episodes. Can anyone back me up on this one?
I can. I can't remember the exact threads, especially since it was back when I was still a lurker, but I think it was after the first season of Sam and Max came out and people were upset the episodes were shorter than The Great Cow Race. Some people voiced the opinion that they could accept fewer episodes, as long as they were longer. So ... you really can't please everybody.
That being said, I think four episodes for Wallace and Gromit seems reasonable. Four shorts = four episodes. But if there are fewer than 5 episodes for season 3 of Sam and Max, so help me Telltale! I'll take you off my Christmas card list!

[daro2096]

I can. I can't remember the exact threads, especially since it was back when I was still a lurker, but I think it was after the first season of Sam and Max came out and people were upset the episodes were shorter than The Great Cow Race. Some people voiced the opinion that they could accept fewer episodes, as long as they were longer. So ... you really can't please everybody.
That being said, I think four episodes for Wallace and Gromit seems reasonable. Four shorts = four episodes. But if there are fewer than 5 episodes for season 3 of Sam and Max, so help me Telltale! I'll take you off my Christmas card list!

The W&G game isn't longer. It is basically three acts plus boss level.

[Eric528]

The only thing that may make it seem SLIGHTLY longer is that each task seems to have more subtasks to complete it. And there were more timed puzzles which took me many attempts to complete. Still, I was expecting an entire extra act by all the pre-release buzz about the games being longer. It wasnt short, but did not stand out as being any longer than any other telltale game.

[Armakuni]

I don't mind there only being 4 episodes. The first one was great and if the remaining four are as good, I'll be more than happy with 4 episodes.

And I'm excited to see what they'll do next, I hope it will soon be time for some more Sam & Max :D

[Rather Dashing]

After playing episode one, I already think that I'd be pretty unhappy if the price wasn't so good. $26 for four episodes of that size is perfect for me, and the 50% off took a reasonable price and made it extraordinary.

[Eric528]

I agree, the price cuts and discounts for preordering more than make up for less episodes. And I really do love the first episode.

[SuperBosco]

I have a question
What is the most high possible level for"graphic quality" in Wallace and gromit. For me it goes only 1 to 9? is there more

[Will]

Everyone has access to all 9 graphics settings. How well they run on your particular system is another matter.