Please increase the sound quality for voices [Archive]

neilka

06/01/2009, 10:35 am

As has been noted in several threads of yore, the sound quality used for voices in past Telltale releases has been lower than some people would like. The voices sound overcompressed and clipped, which is especially evident when a character says the letter "s".

(To head this off at the pass - I realise that some people either don't notice or don't care about this problem, in which case forget you ever read this thread and don't try listening for it!)

With Dominic Armato back on board, it'd be an extraordinary shame for the voices to fall victim to the same problem again. So I beseech you Telltale, please increase the amount of data allocated to voices this time around so that Guybrush's esses (and other letters) can ring out across the Caribbean with the clarity they deserve.

Thank you!

Leak

06/01/2009, 12:01 pm

I heartily concur. I don't know what you're using for compressing speech, but please please please use Ogg Vorbis at at least quality 4 over whatever you've been using - at least for the DVD edition.

Pretty please? Pretty please with ol' Murray on top?

np: Tosca - Oysters In May (No Hassle (Disc 1))

Yohmi

06/01/2009, 12:47 pm

I heard about AAC+ for voice... but truely... I won't complain, and I'm sure no one would, if you just let download a "deluxe" patch for those who care about sound (and there is many of them, it's far from being the first thread about that). I've already changed the sound files for sam&max to try the french version, and it worked, so I suppose it's possible.

Hakobus

06/01/2009, 01:12 pm

I second this request. The sound quality on previous TT games has ranged from OK to appalling depending on the character and their lines. At the very least offer a downloadable patch.

Pirateguybrush

06/01/2009, 09:12 pm

I've had no issues in the past, but I'm always in favour of increasing it for those who have had problems, even if it means a bigger download.

LuigiHann

06/01/2009, 09:16 pm

People request this with every game but they never do...

Maybe they do increase the audio quality, but they just forget to turn off the air conditioning in the studio :p

thanatos56

06/01/2009, 09:18 pm

I've had no issues in the past, but I'm always in favour of increasing it for those who have had problems, even if it means a bigger download.

Good to know I'm not the only one who's never noticed these problems.

taumel

06/01/2009, 10:01 pm

Oh and they have Michael Land on board as well!

Huurrraaaaaaaaaaa! *<(:O)

RockNRoll

06/02/2009, 01:45 am

good call.

it was really cool having this as a surprise, but unfortunately it means telltale really didn't seem to consult with fans at all. now we just have to hope they got it right. i think especially in the case of a game like monkey island, where fans know it just as deeply as the creators at this point, a lot of phenomenal ideas could've been sparked by a little public discussion.

backslash

06/02/2009, 02:25 am

Also agree with increasing the sound quality, an extra 50mb or so per episode isn't going to hurt anyone. When a game made over 10 years ago has better sound quality than today's versions even though they didn't have MP3s back then to compress it 10x fold you know something is seriously wrong

96/128kb quality is perfectly acceptable for voices that may involve sudden screaming/high pitch voices

DarthBo

06/02/2009, 03:01 am

YES, I cringe every time a character says an "s" in S&M and W&G.
The best solution I have is to use my old cheap speakers, that way everything sounds like crap and you don't hear the difference :P

But yeah, please use a better codec/quality setting for the voices this time :-)

RMJ1984

06/02/2009, 04:24 am

its like with the controls, it just wont happen, this isnt the company that listens to people anymore, because Telltale doesnt need better voice quality, then nobody need it.

Its so amazing, such a small little detail, not even this cant they do :(

Because for us who has a good sound system, the voice is still very very bad, i must agree.

It is scary that old adventure game voices sound better. But thats Telltale for you :/

promke

06/02/2009, 04:36 am

jeez buddy calm down and stop trolling every thread.

Tor

06/02/2009, 04:38 am

This has annoyed me as well. Seriously, people don't have that low bandwidths anymore, a few more megabytes to fix the sound quality won't hurt anyone. With a good audio coder you don't need super high bitrates to get good quality reproduction of human speech. For a very small amount of effort on Telltale's part, the audio quality can be highly improved.

Tjibbbe

06/02/2009, 04:40 am

its like with the controls, it just wont happen, this isnt the company that listens to people anymore, because Telltale doesnt need better voice quality, then nobody need it.

How appropriate, you fight like a cow.

Really guys, come on now. I try to stay out of these kinds of threads as much as possible, but this is really getting mental. We're on a forum of a company discussing the new Monkey Island. Monkey Island! Do you really believe this is a game made by some evil corporation looking for ways to take your money and ruin your life? The fact that this game even exists is fanservice to the extreme. Let's not forget that Telltale still isn't this mega-corporation with unlimited staff, time and money. They're a small company releasing games that only exist because of their, and our, love for them. The fact that they're not doing everything every fan is shouting for doesn't mean that they're not listening. I really don't understand why this needs to be explained over and over. I really pity those that can't get over these silly little things and just try to enjoy the games. They're a labour of love, and I'm extremely happy to see this day. I feel like I'm 12 again, playing the Curse of Monkey Island-demo for the first time. Brilliant.

It's the year 2009, and we're playing more adventure games then ever. It's bloody Monkey Island. In 2009.

WDeranged

06/02/2009, 07:20 am

Just adding my thumbs up to this thread, more than sam and max, more than strongbad, monkey island deserves top quality speech.

salmonmax

06/02/2009, 07:57 am

The speech compression is the one thing that makes previous Telltale releases seem less than 100% polished. I would LOVE to see this rectified in Tales of Monkey Island.

That being said... this is very exciting news! Nice going, guys!

turingmachine604

06/02/2009, 10:12 am

Also agree with increasing the sound quality, an extra 50mb or so per episode isn't going to hurt anyone.

The games can only be up to 40MB (WiiWare limit). It'd have to be as a patch or something.

LuigiHann

06/02/2009, 10:14 am

The games can only be up to 40MB (WiiWare limit). It'd have to be as a patch or something.

The actual files on Wii are different from the files on PC. They could easily have the PC version use higher quality audio than the Wii version.

Tor

06/02/2009, 10:30 am

The actual files on Wii are different from the files on PC. They could easily have the PC version use higher quality audio than the Wii version.
Correct, and the installers for the PC episodes of Strong Bad (Telltale's other game series on WiiWare) are already twice the size of the WiiWare limit.

cyreb7

06/02/2009, 02:00 pm

I have REALY old and low quality speakers, a 6.1 surround sound speaker set, and a par of $100 dolor earphones: the sound of S&B and W&G is horrible on ALL THE DIFFERENT SPEAKERS! I don’t care if I have to pay an extra $5 bucks to get something I would consider “good quality,” I don’t care if I have to wait half a year for the DVD, all I want is something , ANYTHING that will sound acceptable.

This is the game I grew up on; Monkey Island is my all time favorite adventure game and I really don’t want you to mess it up with crummy audio. I am not asking for CD quality, but something that is at lest comparable to streaming quality is fine with me. And could you please make it so the sound is not clipped.

At least tell us why you can’t increases the audio quality?

Kraken

06/02/2009, 03:38 pm

Better sound quality would definitely be a plus, especially as there is no size limit for PC at least.

BliztyMighty

06/03/2009, 02:42 am

I have purchased at full price every single Sam n Max and Strongbad game from Telltale and I just wanted to chip in with my two cents:

SINCE WALLACE AND GROMIT I HAVE STOPPED BUYING TELLTALE GAMES BECAUSE OF THE HORRIBLE AUDIO QUALITY!

Not only does it sound really bad and often gives me a headache when listening to it with headphones, the audio is so compressed that my laptop (which has some of the most advanced audio hardware out there btw) gives me constant distracting sound compression artifacts.

Myself and I think 95% of Telltale fans will GLADLY accept (much) larger file sizes! I won't be buying any telltale products until they can have sound quality that is at least (GASP!) half as good as every other game available for the PC (all of which have crystal clear audio btw!). I think the voices are encoded at only about 8-16kilobits/sec. It needs to be about 112kilobits/sec at a bare minimum.
:( :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

OMA

06/03/2009, 06:27 am

I guess the problem is these games have a lot of dialogue, much more that it might seem at first play. And all those hours of dialogue have to be ultra-compressed so they fit in a very small size. Anyway, I agree that with today's bandwidth it's feasible to even double the actual size of each episode, without much problem.

Telltale, do you have any statistics of people still using dial-up to download episodes? I suppose you'll have data to back your decisions of keeping the size that low.

Quanta

06/03/2009, 07:06 am

I guess the problem is these games have a lot of dialogue, much more that it might seem at first play. And all those hours of dialogue have to be ultra-compressed so they fit in a very small size.

Unfortunately that also means: hours of unbearable voices.

We can only hope that Telltale will adress this issue (or take this as an issue at all) eventually. The sad thing is that all their already released games are a no-go for me, because of this (I already fell for them with the Sam & Max Season One DVD).

And to be honest, I get somewhat upset when I must read things like this:

Really guys, come on now. I try to stay out of these kinds of threads as much as possible, but this is really getting mental. We're on a forum of a company discussing the new Monkey Island. Monkey Island! [...] Let's not forget that Telltale still isn't this mega-corporation with unlimited staff, time and money. They're a small company releasing games that only exist because of their, and our, love for them.

I don't expect Telltale to be or become a "mega-corporation". I only expect them to higher the goddamn datarate for voice files. I can't see how this can be such a big financial problem when virtually everybody else on the market does it right.

And yeah, it's Monkey Island, yay! I'm a big fan of MI myself (with MI2 as my favourite) but I don't get excited just because it has "Monkey Island" written on the cover. It may offically be "Monkey Island" but it can still turn out as shit (which would be a real shame).

If you take everything as it is without questioning, nothing improves.

Coren

06/15/2009, 10:54 pm

Just posting to add my own voice to those who think the audio quality needs to be kicked up a notch.

I just downloaded W&G - "Muzzled", and yet again I've been struck with how compressed the voices sound. You can plainly hear the characteristic "bubbling" and "scraping" in the high ranges, and this is especially painful when using headphones.

TellTale, I love the stuff you guys make, but please please consider just turning down the compression a bit. To be honest, I wouldn't care if the download turned out to be twice the size if I could have better audio. And especially now you're working on the mythical Monkey Island series, it'd be a shame to leave the audio quality as it is now.

Mr Party Hat

06/18/2009, 03:06 am

I downloaded the S&M Xbox Live release this morning, to see if the sound files had been altered, but unfortunately they're the same budget quality they were in the PC game. It also reminded me just how much the voices ended up dampening my enthusiasm for the seasons. I gave up halfway through the zombie episode in season 2.

I haven't heard any samples of the Tales voices, but until I know for sure I'm not pre-ordering. And I never thought new MI would come out without me wanting to buy it. :(

Really guys, come on now. I try to stay out of these kinds of threads as much as possible, but this is really getting mental. We're on a forum of a company discussing the new Monkey Island. Monkey Island! Do you really believe this is a game made by some evil corporation looking for ways to take your money and ruin your life? The fact that this game even exists is fanservice to the extreme. Let's not forget that Telltale still isn't this mega-corporation with unlimited staff, time and money. They're a small company releasing games that only exist because of their, and our, love for them. The fact that they're not doing everything every fan is shouting for doesn't mean that they're not listening. I really don't understand why this needs to be explained over and over. I really pity those that can't get over these silly little things and just try to enjoy the games. They're a labour of love, and I'm extremely happy to see this day. I feel like I'm 12 again, playing the Curse of Monkey Island-demo for the first time. Brilliant.

I think this is a very dangerous attitude to adopt. We should just be glad of new MI games, regardless of quality? The reason we want new MI games is because of the quality of the previous ones, if the new ones aren't up to scratch it'll kill any enthusiasm stone dead. If they use the same quality that they did for S&M, that'll mean the voices will sound worse than they did nine years ago, in Escape. Which would just be bizzare.

All of that might be for nothing, however, as I'm still hoping they're using a decent quality this time! :)

hplikelike

06/18/2009, 06:52 pm

How much of a file size difference would it make?

Zardos

06/18/2009, 09:19 pm

I add my vote for better sound! I started a thread on this way back on Sam and Max season 1. Coincidentally, my wife and I just started to play the "Reality 2.0" episode of season 1 (we never finished Sam and Max) and we both noticed (AGAIN) the "poor" sound. We try to not let it ruin our experience, lol... Of course, I'm running my sound through a real amplifier with real speakers, so its quite noticable. And, FYI, we are playing off the DVD version (on the PC). Of course this is nitpicking -- I mean in reality (1.0, hehe) we DON'T let this ruin the experience on these great games... BUT, it does eat away at me even though i try not to let it. Sometimes, it's so "poor" you almost can't understand the word.

EDIT: Wow, at the bottom of this thread, I can see my other post from 2007 referenced there... "started by Zardos".

Pirateguybrush

06/18/2009, 09:29 pm

salmonmax

06/19/2009, 05:53 am

Having spent some more time listening carefully for these sound atifacts, I think I know what you're talking about. It's not that much of an issue for me, and I have to listen hard to pick up on them, but I'm with the people who want an upgrade.

It's surprising to me that so many people claim they don't hear the sound quality issues. I mean, I certainly don't consider myself an audiophile, but the compression artifacts on the voice recordings are very apparent to me. Maybe I just have really good hearing??

salmonmax

06/19/2009, 05:59 am

HoppyDragon

06/19/2009, 06:13 am

salmonmax

06/19/2009, 06:24 am

I was able to hear up to 22,050 Hz, and I do indeed hear the compression artifacts in the speech.

Wow! You can hear the highest frequency? That's impressive. I think all the doggone rock 'n roll music has taken its toll on my hearing.

Leak

06/19/2009, 06:30 am

My ears crapped out at ~14kHz last I checked.

@Telltale - how about at least adding a tweakable low-pass filter (or, if you're at it, a 12-band EQ) for the voices ONLY? That'd mostly get rid of the high frequency artifacts for those of us that are irritated by them...

np: Cage - Follow The Bleeder (I Never Knew You)

HoppyDragon

06/19/2009, 06:37 am

Wow! You can hear the highest frequency? That's impressive. I think all the doggone rock 'n roll music has taken its toll on my hearing.
I listen to quite a bit of "rock and roll" too. Like loud bass as well. I've always had really good hearing, despite how loud I've been known to listen to music.

MusicallyInspired

06/19/2009, 06:40 am

I think this is a very dangerous attitude to adopt. We should just be glad of new MI games, regardless of quality? The reason we want new MI games is because of the quality of the previous ones, if the new ones aren't up to scratch it'll kill any enthusiasm stone dead. If they use the same quality that they did for S&M, that'll mean the voices will sound worse than they did nine years ago, in Escape. Which would just be bizzare.

Adventures have been dead for years. The fact that we're getting decent adventure games at ALL (let alone Sam & Max and Monkey Island adventures made by the original developers!!!) is entirely a blessing. The only way things will improve is if we continue to support the genre as best we can. Things aren't magically going to become the way you want them to by not supporting them.

Normally I'd agree with you, but adventures are still on very shaky ground and the scales could tip either way depending on what the consumers choose to do with their money. I choose to support a fragile genre rather than expect it to grow in quality and scope without contributing anything. That guy was right. TTG aren't some huge company that can do whatever we ask. They're still growing and they need our support. That's only a dangerous attitude to adopt when you're blindly following a large corporation willing to take advantage of your money just to get more. They don't need that much money. TTG really does need it. It's not dangerous, it's necessary.

Mr Party Hat

06/19/2009, 07:27 am

TTG aren't some huge company that can do whatever we ask...

We're asking them to click a different button. The one that saves voice samples in a higher quality.

We've been asking them for three years.

Planeforger

06/19/2009, 08:02 am

I was able to hear up to 22,050 Hz, and I do indeed hear the compression artifacts in the speech.
I can hear up to that, too, and I've never really noticed any problems with the audio.
Or if I have, I don't remember it, and it certainly didn't bother me enough to stop playing the series...as some of the above people claim. :/

Still, I'm all for bigger download sizes each month if it'll improve the quality of the games' sound.

salmonmax

06/19/2009, 08:36 am

Still, I'm all for bigger download sizes each month if it'll improve the quality of the games' sound.

You know, ultimately it probably comes down to it being a business decision. I can't imagine that it would be too difficult to increase the sound quality, but if it increases the download size, it increases their bandwidth usage for each download. So while it may only result in, say, a file size that's 20 MB bigger, multiply that by however many thousands of purchases, the increased bandwidth may have a real effect on their bottom line. Considering the fact that those of us with this particular complaint appear to be in the minority, it might just not make financial sense for them to remedy the problem.

(Of course, this is pure speculation. Maybe they're just evil and don't give a crap about their fans. That seems less likely, however.)

That being said, while I can appreciate their reasoning, why can't they charge those of us in the minority an extra dollar or so per episode for a special "super premium" version with higher audio quality? People that say "what compression artifacts?" can continue to get the standard version. Those of us that cringe whenever a game character says a word containing an 's' can be rewarded for their complaining by paying an extra dollar.

Seems fair to me. Of course, all of this may be wasted energy, and we may be all pleasantly surprised by the sound quality when the final product comes out. *fingers crossed*

Pirateguybrush

06/19/2009, 10:59 am

Either I have gaps in my hearing range, or it's my speakers/sound card. On that test, I can hear up to 17,500. I can't hear much above that, but when it hits 20,000 I can hear it loud and clear. I can hear everything after that with no problems, including 22,050. But I can't hear 22,000.

serweet

06/19/2009, 11:34 am

I can hear up to 18,000Hz; but I have tinnitus anyway, so I don't care for hearing high noises.

Hakobus

06/19/2009, 12:11 pm

I can't imagine that it would be too difficult to increase the sound quality, but if it increases the download size, it increases their bandwidth usage for each download. So while it may only result in, say, a file size that's 20 MB bigger, multiply that by however many thousands of purchases, the increased bandwidth may have a real effect on their bottom line.
That's why more and more companies use P2P solutions when delivering large amounts of data (like Blizzard does with WoW updates).

I also cannot understand what kind of sound system or ears are required to not hear the problems with the audio quality. I mean, just talk to Miss Flitt in either of the first two episodes of W&G. It's apparent in any of the characters' voices, but hers sounds the most awful. I guess this could also be a problem arising from the mastering process, especially if it's done in-house by someone who isn't an audio professional. They might just be accentuating the wrong frequencies a bit too much, so that it finally breaks when compression is applied, even if the compression quality on it's own might be enough under better circumstances.

Who knows why it sounds like crap. But it does, and it needs to be fixed.

Important-Looking Pirate

06/19/2009, 12:20 pm

Just adding my thumbs up to this thread, more than sam and max, more than strongbad, monkey island deserves top quality speech.

agreed!

Alucard

06/19/2009, 01:06 pm

better sound would be nice but it isn't on the top of my list.

onlyamonkey

06/19/2009, 03:32 pm

haven't noticed throughout S&M s1 and 2.

playclever

06/19/2009, 03:39 pm

I hadn't noticed until I read this thread and listened really closely :( I then forgot and stopped noticing. I might have noticed it more if I was using headphones rather than speakers.

salmonmax

06/19/2009, 05:33 pm

I hadn't noticed until I read this thread and listened really closely :( I then forgot and stopped noticing. I might have noticed it more if I was using headphones rather than speakers.

It's so weird how some people notice it and others don't. The first time I played episode one of S&M (on my home PC with decent-quality Altec Lansing speakers), within the first few seconds I was thinking, WTF is up with the sound? Then I met the Soda Poppers and Sybil, and it was far more pronounced. I thought, geeze fans are going to be really annoyed with this. Then I found that there were a few complaints, but most people didn't seem to notice.

Like I've said, I'm no audiophile. But for some reason, this is really noticeable for me. Starting to question my own sanity, I just fired up Ice Station Santa a minute ago on my laptop and plugged in some earbuds, and sure enough, I noticed the audio compression immediately. It sounds like Sam and Max are talking to each other over telephones or something. With all of the clever dialog being bounced around, it's a shame to be distracted.

Again, hopefully this will be better in Tales of Monkey Island. Incidentally, I just watched some of that SOMI: SE playthrough, and the voice quality in that is exquisite. Hopefully Telltale follows suit with TMI.

Ash735

06/19/2009, 08:46 pm

I'm all for better audio quality, on the demoes for Sam & Max I noticed it a few times but I just put that down to it being a Demo Version so they might of reduced sound quality to reduce demo size. I honestly don't mind downloading large files, I usually have to anyway :p I hope the DVD comes with Higher Bitrate audio for both Speech and Music as I'd imagine the work put into this game deserves the best treatment. :)

PariahKing

06/19/2009, 10:33 pm

I noticed it. I didn't care.

Nicke

06/20/2009, 01:56 am

In Wallace and Gromit episode The Last Resort, there are a few scenes were the audio problem really sticks out more then usally. So for those of you who dont seem to hear the audio problem. If your interested, play along until you reach the scene were the whole town stands in Wallace and Gromits basment arguing and talking in each others mouths

Leak

06/20/2009, 09:41 am

It's so weird how some people notice it and others don't.
It might not be that noticeable on the cheap speakers usually built into monitors or the sub-10 EUR clunkers you get with a store-bought PC, but with decent speakers it's more than noticeable, never mind with headphones, of course...

WDeranged

06/20/2009, 09:48 pm

I have to say I barely noticed any aliasing in the Strongbad games, really good clean vocals almost all the way, W&G on the other hand takes a good step back in audio quality, possibly even worse than Sam and Max :(

WDeranged

06/20/2009, 09:54 pm

oh, I took the test, I top out at 20k, not bad for 20 straight years of heavy musical abuse.

corruptbiggins

06/20/2009, 11:11 pm

I can't say I've noticed any drop in sound quality and I use a headset all the time for playing games. Though it must also be said that my hearing is not the best - in fact I've had to have numerous operations on my ears, wore a hearing aid for a brief period and I used to have grommets in both of my ears though I think I just have one left now (I know it may seem weird that I'm not certain but there you go).

WDeranged

06/20/2009, 11:32 pm

I think that could be our solution, I'll try pouring boiling hot wax into my ears and get back with the results, also my tests in temporary vasaline blindness are doing wonders to spruce up the graphics :p

LogicDeLuxe

06/21/2009, 09:04 am

I won't complain, and I'm sure no one would, if you just let download a "deluxe" patch for those who care about soundA good idea. I would like to download high quality audio patches for Sam & Max episodes. A peek at those files revealed the soundtrack is stored in Ogg Vorbis format at 64 kbps. Eventhough, it performs amazingly good compared to MP3 at the same bitrate, a version with quality 4 or so is very appreciated.
I don't have the codec for the speech files, but I suspect the situation is similar for them.Also agree with increasing the sound quality, an extra 50mb or so per episode isn't going to hurt anyone.Interestingly enough, the German dubbed version is roughly about that much bigger.

Pirateguybrush

06/22/2009, 04:25 am

Are the German voices higher quality?

hoppisoft

06/22/2009, 05:32 am

Come on Telltale! I'm supposed to love you, i know it, but this is really getting laughable (in a sad way)!

I've played through every single Episode of Sam&Max and Wallace&Gromit with my really mid- to low-range Logitech Speakers ("Logitech Z3" Speakers if anyones interested) and noticed the really low Quality of the Voices from Day 1 (equals "Sample 1" if you put it that way :) ). I am by far not the only one who was annoyed by this since November 2006 (!).

This always REALLY bugged me with Telltale-Games - I mean: Just play a little through Curse of Monkey Island (that game is 12 years old!) and you'll notice the Quality of the Voicerecordings feels 5 times higher, that's just an annoying fact that stays on forever so it seems ... :mad:

You fixed the Issues with Widescreen-Support now since Sam&Max Season 2, so i think it's finally time for an Overhaul in your Recording Department.

Keep it up!
Just my 2 cents...

salmonmax

06/22/2009, 06:20 am

How about distributing a high-quality speech pack on bittorrent? Seems that would please everyone.

The fact that no one from Telltale has weighed in on this thread does concern me a bit. I'm looking forward to firing this game up on my widescreen TV connected to my home theater PC, and it will be very disappointing when Guybrush first opens his mouth and it sounds lousy.

Irishmile

06/22/2009, 09:41 am

What do German players think of Jurgen in Sam & Max?

Leak

06/22/2009, 09:53 am

What do German players think of Jurgen in Sam & Max?
I'd say he's one umlaut short of Jürgen. :D

np: Billy Bragg - You Make Me Brave (Mr. Love & Justice (Band Version))

LogicDeLuxe

06/22/2009, 10:12 am

Are the German voices higher quality?Sounds better to me. The episodes are available here: http://www.gamesload.de/sam_and_max_episode_1/
One problem though: The demo version is the regular English version, and the German full version has no demo mode. However, you could easily build a Frankenstein-version by replacing all VOX files of the English version with those of the German version. Doesn't work perfect, though. Some lines which are longer in the German version are cut short when played in such a manner. Still, should be good enough to judge the audio quality.so i think it's finally time for an Overhaul in your Recording Department.Apart from a few lines (it was in "Reality 2.0", iIrc) which sounded like recorded in quite a different environment, I don't notice recording issues. It's the compression which obviously degrade the quality. A slightly higher bitrate would likely be a great improvement.

hplikelike

06/22/2009, 10:17 am

Is it possible to tell the sound quality from the trailer? And also, how much would it effect the file size to upgrade the sound?

LogicDeLuxe

06/22/2009, 12:38 pm

Is it possible to tell the sound quality from the trailer?I downloaded the 224 MB trailer. It has lossless audio in CD quality, so very representative, given the producer isn't playing tricks on us.
It sounds indeed better to me than Sam & Max. Watching the audio in a spectral view merely reveals occasional gaps above 16 kHz on music cues. That would place it even above the rather good EMI recordings.

You probably noticed that most music in the trailer is directly taken from CMI, a game which is interestingly lossy and 22050 Hz only. Is this going to be in ToMI, or are those just placeholders for the new music to be produced? Either way, Telltale Games is apparently in possession of high quality recordings of the CMI soundtrack.And also, how much would it effect the file size to upgrade the sound?On "Culture Shock" the voice is 18.9 MB and the music is 14.7 MB. So adding about 30 MB would almost double the bitrate, which should be quite good. And adding about 50 MB would be somewhere comparable to Ogg Vorbis quality 5 which would be above the average game quality. That is not exactly excessive big, but still in very reasonable regions, I'd say.

salmonmax

06/23/2009, 04:55 am

I downloaded the 224 MB trailer. It has lossless audio in CD quality, so very representative, given the producer isn't playing tricks on us.
It sounds indeed better to me than Sam & Max. Watching the audio in a spectral view merely reveals occasional gaps above 16 kHz on music cues. That would place it even above the rather good EMI recordings.

It seems to me that previous gameplay footage previews for other games have contained higher quality voice samples than what were found in the final product. As though the trailers were compiled prior to everything being fed through the Audio Compressionator. If I had more motivation, I'd try to find a specific example, but considering this is all speculation until the final product is released anyway, I'm going to try not to exert too much more energy on this topic.

The dilemma I'm facing is this, however. If I could get some sort of assurance from Telltale on this subject, I'd immediately preorder. After all, I'd really like the Steve Purcell artwork. On the other hand, if the audio quality ends up being "business as usual", I may take a pass on this one. Gotta "vote with my dollar" and such.

WDeranged

06/23/2009, 01:27 pm

http://www.mixnmojo.com/features/read.php?article=grandadventures3

The poor sound quality gets a mention in the latest Mojo review of W&G.

"Muzzled! is closer to 4 skulls than the previous episodes, but the low quality speech still grates in my poor ears for every sibilant uttered by the actors."

"A 2009 game being beaten by a game from 1992 in the sound quality department shouldn't happen."

RMJ1984

06/23/2009, 05:10 pm

So is anyone up for taking bets? 10$ that the audio is just as poor in Money Island?.

Would it be funny to know what sound system they use at Telltale? i mean use so hours and hours opon end to record such fun and clever dialog, only to have it ruined with bad compression.

I mean that is like making a new car, but not putting it togther properly so it falls parts 5min later :S

Also just played W&G Episode 3, damn poor sound, it ruins the game.

LuigiHann

06/23/2009, 05:28 pm

I bet it is a pitch/age thing. Maybe there's nobody at their office who can hear the hissing, so when they try to fix it and think they've fixed it, it's still there.

Otherwise I have no idea. My hearing is fairly poor so I've never noticed it, but this issue has been around pretty much since day one. Pretty sad.

Irishmile

06/23/2009, 05:32 pm

My hearing goes in and out... like I can hear things really far away... but when me wife starts nagging my hearing seems to go out.. its the strangest thing.

Ash735

06/23/2009, 06:06 pm

If one of the previous posts is to be believed, 64kbps VBR OGG is pretty low for music standards but would be considered "ok" for Vocal with 80kbps VBR being the high end for Vocal only. As for music, music should be AT LEAST 160kbps VBR.

salmonmax

06/24/2009, 06:48 am

I bet it is a pitch/age thing. Maybe there's nobody at their office who can hear the hissing, so when they try to fix it and think they've fixed it, it's still there.

It's hard to believe that no one at Telltale can hear the problem. Either they don't think it's a big enough problem to address, or something is preventing them from fixing it.

I know if I was one of the voice actors or the engineer that records the actors, I'd be pretty miffed about them mucking up the finished product. What am I saying? I'm miffed, and I'm just a lowly customer!

Might I add, the OP did use the word "please." As a result, I think Telltale is obligated to make an extra effort to fix this. Such politeness should be rewarded! ;)

lattsam

06/24/2009, 11:09 am

It's hard to believe that no one at Telltale can hear the problem. Either they don't think it's a big enough problem to address, or something is preventing them from fixing it.

I know if I was one of the voice actors or the engineer that records the actors, I'd be pretty miffed about them mucking up the finished product. What am I saying? I'm miffed, and I'm just a lowly customer!

Might I add, the OP did use the word "please." As a result, I think Telltale is obligated to make an extra effort to fix this. Such politeness should be rewarded! ;)

I've been waiting for them to fix a certain "sound problem" for a long while, and I've been as polite as possible. You're right. Telltale is obligated to make an extra effort to fix issues like these. But so far, nothing is being done.

This seems fishy to me...

fpostma

06/24/2009, 11:21 am

I read somewhere on the forum (probably in pre-order forum) that the build/package process would change for Monkey Island. Which is relevant because the audio used to be the same compressed for all platforms. Now it is compress per platform, so the PC could get a higher bitrate version of the voice audio.

Easiest would probably be if someone at TellTale makes several bitrate version of a small piece of audio and have people on this thread test it. I wouldn't be any help for that, don't hear the problem :)

salmonmax

06/24/2009, 12:38 pm

I read somewhere on the forum (probably in pre-order forum) that the build/package process would change for Monkey Island.

I wonder if this issue would get more attention if it was posted in the swanky , VIP pre-order lounge? Ironically, I refuse to purchase the game until I get some sort of word on whether or not the problem is fixed.

guitarsareboring

07/01/2009, 02:36 am

I can only hear up to 17,500. No wonder I can't tell the difference between a 192kbps mp3 and a wav file!

I'm sure there's a good and logical reason why the sound quality is low. I doubt they're sitting there wondering how they can annoy the people who have spent money on their products or that they get to the sound recording stage and think 'ah sod it, we've spent ages writing all these lines but we'll compromise the quality without good reason'

Sure, better sound would be nice but I am honestly just excited that there's a new MI game in 7 days!

jamiehavok

07/01/2009, 03:36 am

is it me or from the gameplay video the voices do sound higher quality?

Cyphox

07/01/2009, 03:51 am

hmmm?

i played sam&max season1 the past few days and for me the voice quality is all good. absolutely no complains. and imho my hearing is quite good.

no hissing S's and such stuff at all.

well, i'm no audiophile, but imho my hearing is not THAT bad...

btw. i don't use crappy speakers, i've got an x-fi and a teufel 5.1 system

Teeth

07/01/2009, 04:30 am

I've never noticed any problems. Especially since the sound quality in SBCG4AP is higher than in the cartoons, and let's not forget how horribly compressed the voice clips are in Escape from Monkey Island.

salmonmax

07/01/2009, 04:43 am

I can only hear up to 17,500. No wonder I can tell the difference between a 192kbps mp3 and a wav file!

I'm sure there's a good and logical reason why the sound quality is low. I doubt they're sitting there wondering how they can annoy the people who have spent money on their products or that they get to the sound recording stage and think 'ah sod it, we've spent ages writing all these lines but we'll compromise the quality without good reason'

Sure, better sound would be nice but I am honestly just excited that there's a new MI game in 7 days!

Of course they're not intentionally annoying their customers with this. I don't think anyone is implying that. And yes, it is nice to get a new Monkey Island game.

But also look at it this way... imagine your favorite band is the Beatles, and they just uncovered master tapes of hours of previously unreleased music that was locked away in a vault. The master tapes are of amazing quality but for whatever reason, they will only be selling this music as MP3s encoded at 96 kbps. Wouldn't this be a baffling and frustrating? Sure it wold be amazing to get hours of new Beatles music, but having it at such low quality would kind of put a damper on the whole thing.

That being said, the voice quality in the newly-released gameplay footage sounds pretty good. Hopefully it will stay that way in the final release.

WDeranged

07/01/2009, 04:55 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP5uDNhOiPg - New gameplay footage

Sounds and looks great to me :)

guitarsareboring

07/01/2009, 05:06 am

Of course they're not intentionally annoying their customers with this. I don't think anyone is implying that. And yes, it is nice to get a new Monkey Island game.

But also look at it this way... imagine your favorite band is the Beatles, and they just uncovered master tapes of hours of previously unreleased music that was locked away in a vault. The master tapes are of amazing quality but for whatever reason, they will only be selling this music as MP3s encoded at 96 kbps. Wouldn't this be a baffling and frustrating? Sure it wold be amazing to get hours of new Beatles music, but having it at such low quality would kind of put a damper on the whole thing.

That being said, the voice quality in the newly-released gameplay footage sounds pretty good. Hopefully it will stay that way in the final release.

You make a good point there, although the main feature of music is the sound so it's more understandable to be frustrated by low quality. I guess if I went to the cinema to see some blockbuster and it turned out the sound was mono I'd be a bit disappointed!

salmonmax

07/01/2009, 05:40 am

You make a good point there, although the main feature of music is the sound

Yeah, I knew my analogy was kind of flawed as I was making it. Thanks for pointing that out! ;)

Arwald

08/21/2009, 03:22 am

Check out this hearing test:
http://www.flashpresskits.com/hearingtest/

The highest frequency I was able to hear was 17,500 Hz. I'd be curious to know how other people "score" on this, and whether or not they have noticed issues with the recorded dialog in previous Telltale games.

(If I were more ambitious, I'd start a new thread about this.)

I heared all the way to 20,050 Hz...hmm, I actually can't find any difference between a 128kbs and 320kbs mp3 bitrate, but i'm able to hear the whistling of a coka-cola watered inductor of my motherboard (drives me nuts, although noone around notices the sound).
It brings a wild guess: the ability to hear the limping sound "S" depends on a whole combination of personal abilities (first time i envy someone who has different hearing)

der_ketzer

08/21/2009, 11:01 am

I can hear all the sounds in this test.
I usually have no problem with the voices in Telltales Games but Elaine at the throneroom was really hell.

What do German players think of Jurgen in Sam & Max?

Well I am proud that the gay emo disco-owner is german. Just not a very convincing one.

RockNRoll

08/21/2009, 12:33 pm

I noticed the sound problems in Chapter 2 very prominently. Some of the S's sounded like crap. The splashes in the water sounded harsh like a tree cracking in your ear, and that's all over compression.

Slanzinger

08/21/2009, 12:42 pm

Oh my goodness yes.
It wasn't such an issue with the first episode, but PLEASE give Elaine a better microphone next time around. Couldn't notice it in Dominic's lines for some reason (perhaps differently compressed?), but Elaine and the merfolk were unbearably sibilant with the letter S. It crackled, not nice even on speakers, let alone headphones.
No other complaints here, and it's odd that this has happened far more to the second chapter. I would say "female voices", but I couldn't really notice it all that much with the Voodoo Lady either.

Ash735

08/21/2009, 01:31 pm

They've actually decreased the sound quality on most characters except Guybrush, LeChuck and Winslow! So they're doing the opposite :p In which case, hey Telltale, for episode 3 could we have the lowest sound quality possible? ;)

SubSidal

08/21/2009, 02:12 pm

Atleast in the DVD put less-compressed audio... It's a DVD!! :D

onemanandhisdroid

08/21/2009, 02:20 pm

I must say I'm definitely all for increasing the audio quality - and yeah, I got the impression that the quality was actually decreased as well. There's another techniqual issue that's in there - has anybody ever taken a look at Elaine moving at Spinner Cay? Her walking isn't even animated, most notably during a sequence that has her legs being on-screen rather than in the off. Looks as she's hovering from spot to spot like a ghost. A bit rushed, this?

petethepanda

08/21/2009, 03:56 pm

Elaine's "s" sounds are damn painful to listen to. :(

WDeranged

08/21/2009, 03:58 pm

Yep Eliane was murder to listen to for the first half of the game, absolutely god awful.

neilka

08/21/2009, 04:18 pm

NessD

08/21/2009, 11:12 pm

I've got the feeling that the overall soundquality in Episode 2 was a new all time low...every voice sounded muffled and some characters (especially Elaine) were hissing every "s" as much as the could.

salmonmax

08/21/2009, 11:54 pm

There is one company and three individuals listed in the credits under Audio Mastering. Have any of these people heard the final product that's reaching customers? Do they think it's acceptable? Listening to Elaine talk is like having your eardrums assaulted with a cheese grater.

Once again, please do something about this Telltale. As mentioned, the situation is getting worse and overshadowing what is otherwise an excellent series so far!

This is a good point. I would think that the company that's responsible for the audio mastering might have a real problem with how the final product turned out. After all, even if it's not their fault, people will see their name in the credits and assume they're to blame. What's the name of the company, by the way?