Special Edition looks way better

[99X]

Now I get that it's 2 different styles 2.5D and 3D - but the special edition that's coming from lucasarts looks so much better then the flat color 3D look of the new episodes.

Why do game companies think 3D makes the games better? I would much rather play this type of game in 2D - with the awesome painted backgrounds. It's like playing a cartoon. I hope that the special edition sells through the roof so that more developers will use that design style and make more adventure games.

to telltale: if you're going to do a 3D version of adventure games, at least spend a lot of time making the backgrounds really detailed. I like the storyboard/concept art better then real thing.

[Toothless Gibbon]

One of the main reason companies go down the 3D route is time and cost. It's much quicker basically and gone are the days of having budgets like the early Lucasarts games.

TTG, correct me if Im wrong.

[GaryCXJk]

Actually, it's not so much that it's better, it's just that making the sprites for each action can be a tedious and expensive job. It's simply cheaper to develop the game in 3D, especially for a not-so-big company like Telltale Games. Sure, it's a big company now, but not big in its budget and / or employment size in comparison to companies like Capcom and other.

EDIT: Arrr, ya beat me to it, lad!

[threepcross]

it's sad though. money shouldn't be an issue.

[IpFreely]

Support This game Through the roof! do the Same with special Edition!

And Lucas Arts/talltales will give us a new 2D Monkey island game!

[Toothless Gibbon]

it's sad though. money shouldn't be an issue.


Haha, they are a business.. they've chosen to make games in a genre which is not even slightly as profitable as it was when the original games come out.

You dont except them to make the game at a loss, just out of love?

Would you work for free making it?

[threepcross]

I'm not saying they should go with a loss. did you even read what I wrote? I said it's sad that money is an issue.

also - yes I would work for free.

[werpu]

Now I get that it's 2 different styles 2.5D and 3D - but the special edition that's coming from lucasarts looks so much better then the flat color 3D look of the new episodes.

Why do game companies think 3D makes the games better? I would much rather play this type of game in 2D - with the awesome painted backgrounds. It's like playing a cartoon. I hope that the special edition sells through the roof so that more developers will use that design style and make more adventure games.

to telltale: if you're going to do a 3D version of adventure games, at least spend a lot of time making the backgrounds really detailed. I like the storyboard/concept art better then real thing.

Actually now that I have seen the first gameplay videos on gamespot I must say the 3d version looks way better and the additional dynamic added by the 3d engine (it scrolls and zooms like in a real movie) really adds to it!
If you want to spoil yourself then check out the videos!
I am not sure what it is about the 2d version, maybe the crude animation but it feels somewhat cheapish!

[Toothless Gibbon]

I'm not saying they should go with a loss. did you even read what I wrote? I said it's sad that money is an issue.

also - yes I would work for free.


Yes I did read it, sorry if I came accross as malevolent. I guess its sad then that money is an issue for society.

Also, thought you might say that. You'd work full-time for no salary to make a game that you couldn't even really play becasue you already knew all the puzzles and dialog?

[Shale]

The Special Edition characters look fine in stills, but the animation seems wooden. TOMI looks much more natural in motion.

Not to say I'm not drooling over the SE for the gorgeous backgrounds and full voice, of course.

[threepcross]

Also, thought you might say that. You'd work full-time for no salary to make a game that you couldn't even really play becasue you already knew all the puzzles and dialog?

without a doubt. naturally I'd need food and shelter. but apart from that...

[Toothless Gibbon]

Haha fair enough. I actually started making my own Monkey Island game in flash a few years ago, until I realised Id have no fun playing it!

What I found interested though is that its taken Lucasarts 9 months to do SMI:SE, and thats just building it on top of an existing game!

[Armakuni]

There are jobs that don't pay, but provide food and shelter :p
I guess that's a form of payment, but it's really just so you can stay there to work.

[threepcross]

Just a quick question, but how would you pay for these things if you weren't getting paid?

first of all, I'm sure people would give me foot and shelter if I needed it. it's a philosophy called mutual aid.

also I think you are missing anyone's point by some miles now. purposely perhaps, but still.

[Armakuni]

Donations and part time jobs could be a possible solution. Maybe find some sponsors and put some ads in there.

There is VERY cheap food out there if you look around a bit, and maybe someone on the team has rich relatives that could let them stay in a building they own.

I can think of many ways :p

[thin029]

Am I the only one who likes 3D better?
I really loved MI4, more than I loved MI3 :o

[turingmachine604]

No offense, but SoMI looks way better than SoMI: Special Edition, thank god they let you switch between the two on the fly, as those new character designs look like crap.

ToMI looks great though.

[turingmachine604]

first of all, I'm sure people would give me foot and shelter if I needed it. it's a philosophy called mutual aid.

With that philosophy I'm sure there's no homeless or people starving....

oh wait.

[threepcross]

What are you, 12?

oh look, a troll.


With that philosophy I'm sure there's no homeless or people starving....

oh wait.

not in my country at least. if your country hasn't embraced that philosophy, that's really sad.

[turingmachine604]

not in my country at least. if your country hasn't embraced that philosophy, that's really sad.

Seriously, which country (as much as it sounds, this isn't a troll attempt, I'm really curious)?

[Armakuni]

Anyway, what does all that have to do with which game looks better.

[threepcross]

Seriously, which country (as much as it sounds, this isn't a troll attempt, I'm really curious)?

Norway

[MusicallyInspired]

Forget Norway! It's all about Kenya!

10 points to whoever gets the reference.



....oh and no offense to Norway btw.

[turingmachine604]

Forget Norway! It's all about Kenya!

10 points to whoever gets the reference.



....oh and no offense to Norway btw.

Haha, there's no lions in Norway!

Also, here's ToMI gameplay footage

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/talesofmonkeyisland/videos.html?mode=all

It looks a lot better than the static images portray.

[threepcross]

I can't watch gamestop vids. their player doesn't work here =/
it works in Windows XP though so I guess I'll boot into that and try it later.


edit: game*spot*. ever since gamestop opened up in my town I'm always mixing the names.

[VagrantWulf]

I'm sorry but I have to agree with the dissenters, as a fan of art in general, cartoons, comic books, and book art (both inside and cover), I have to say that the Secret of Monkey Island remake looks very rushed.

If you look over a lot of the scenes, they've used a trick that low budget cartoons use: They've brushed over the scenes with vibrant, painted colours to try to avoid the obvious lack of detail present. To me, I find it's the reverse, TMI has quite a lot of detail and the remake looks flat, that's if we're talking about the detail present. I admit that part of the detail might be in the animation of TMI, but it's there. For those who haven't, watch the TMI trailer, it makes all the difference.

I'm going to buy the remake, I'll just be turning the new graphics off, so I can enjoy the old game with the voiceovers, as I have longed for a version of Monkey Island with voiceovers, and I'd pay for that. I hope they do it with Lechuck's Revenge, too. Anyway, back to the topic...

Take a look at both the trailers for SoMI and TMI, TMI has beautiful animation, it looks like a really well done cartoon, whereas the SoMI remake has used every trick in the book to lower costs, look at how the characters glide when they walk (it looks like they're moving on an escalator or perfectly flat surface, and the surface is doing part of the movement for them), this is another cheap trick used to cut corners with animation, and it looks very unnatural.

Plus, there's my personal objection to SoMI in that I find the CMI turban-kid and anything based on him creepy, I'm not sure why but he looks a bit... well, if you met someone like that at night you'd do all you could to avoid them. That blank, inset, beady-eyed stare, the disturbing and impossibly large hair, that it looks like he's fasting and hasn't had a good meal in years, and despite all this he looks more cleanly than any other pirate out there. He comes over as a metrosexual (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/metrosexual) zombie. What did Lechuck do to you, Guybrush? You were quite the handsome bloke, once upon a time. Is that the Curse of Monkey Island? I think it is, and now it's even infecting his past!

(I linked to the meaning of metrosexual there just so there can be no confusion as to what I mean.)

This is why I'm thankful (so thankful) that they decided to go with a completely different look for Guybrush, and one that I can tell is rather obviously based off the MI 2 Guybrush, so once again Guybrush looks rather neat and not at all creepy. Thank you, Telltale. Thank you.

Edit: To those whom as yet hadn't noticed the zombie-like appearance of the new LucasArts Guybrush, I apologise. But now that you've seen it, you can't unsee it!! Which is precisely the problem I have.

[WailingFungus]

oh look, a troll.


:rolleyes:

[VagrantWulf]

To whom do you aim that quote, WailingFungus?

What I said wasn't a troll but merely a heartfelt opinion on a series that I love. Am I not allowed to feel indignant about an envisioning of the series that I didn't enjoy? Is an unpopular opinion a troll these days? (And I'd even point out that I thanked Telltale for their efforts, and on their own forums. That hardly seems like a thing that a troll would do.)

If you weren't aiming that at me, I apologise, but if you were... eesh, it seems like people who call troll are doing as good of a job at trolling as the supposed trolls, these days.

[werpu]

Haha fair enough. I actually started making my own Monkey Island game in flash a few years ago, until I realised Id have no fun playing it!

What I found interested though is that its taken Lucasarts 9 months to do SMI:SE, and thats just building it on top of an existing game!

I assume Lucasarts did not donate to many resources onto the project, besides that the old engine probably was/is pure assembly code. Good question what they took as base. I assume they did not take the old Scumm interpreter but they probably might have opted from ScummVM and enhanced from there (good question probably never answered).

It still is a load of work to upgrade the engine and the game arts to the level they have achieved, but it is clearly visible that they significantly cut down on the animation level down to the bear minimum needed. Well getting in a lot of animation is costly, and the old game also had a bare minimum of animation so it might have made sense!

That is one of the reasons why everyone moved to 3d, all the animation is done way cheaper in 3d due to motion tracking and you dont need a different model for every frame you do!

[S@bre]

Take a look at both the trailers for SoMI and TMI, TMI has beautiful animation, it looks like a really well done cartoon, whereas the SoMI remake has used every trick in the book to lower costs, look at how the characters glide when they walk (it looks like they're moving on an escalator or perfectly flat surface, and the surface is doing part of the movement for them), this is another cheap trick used to cut corners with animation, and it looks very unnatural.

Thats most likely because the special edition version is built on top of the SCUMM version. What you're seeing is a smoothed over version of the original Guybrush walk animation, with a HD model in place of the original sprite. I doubt there's any other way to get the seamless transition between the old and new otherwise.

[Angel Summoner]

What baffles me about the stylization in this special edition is that it is YET ANOTHER redesign of Guybrush. Why don't Lucasarts just stick with the style they developed for Curse or Escape? Preferably Curse. And what's with the hair? :confused:

[WailingFungus]

To whom do you aim that quote, WailingFungus?

What I said wasn't a troll but merely a heartfelt opinion on a series that I love. Am I not allowed to feel indignant about an envisioning of the series that I didn't enjoy? Is an unpopular opinion a troll these days? (And I'd even point out that I thanked Telltale for their efforts, and on their own forums. That hardly seems like a thing that a troll would do.)

If you weren't aiming that at me, I apologise, but if you were... eesh, it seems like people who call troll are doing as good of a job at trolling as the supposed trolls, these days.

You don't seem like a troll to me, the person I quoted does though.

Sorry about the confusion, I actually kinda agree with you opinion. Didn't notice the zombieness of Guybrush though.

[Leak]

Forget Norway! It's all about Kenya!

10 points to whoever gets the reference.
This (http://www.weebls-stuff.com/testy/AdventCalendar/day19.html). :D

np: Sin Fang Bous - Melt Down The Knives (Clangour)

[LuigiHann]

Something about the hair...

http://up.ppy.sh/files/1990sguybrush.png

There we go! Now THAT'S a 1990 look!

[turingmachine604]

Why don't Lucasarts just stick with the style they developed for Curse or Escape? Preferably Curse. :confused:

Curse was the worst designed Guybrush, imo... overly lanky and goofy looking. I'm glad they're staying away from that.

[Irishmile]

I agree about the hair they needed to tone it down a little... and it looks like a bowl cut from the side.... He looks sort of like Gareth from the Office UK

[threepcross]

haha I wouldn't go *that' far Irishmile. but the hair does look funny though.

[Edward VanHelgen]

spot the difference

540543

[Leak]

There we go! Now THAT'S a 1990 look!
Wasn't there a Duke Nukem lookalike-contest somewhere?

Guybrush would totally win it in an instant...

np: Deadbeat - A Joyful Noise (Part I) (Something Borrowed, Something Blue)

[Armakuni]

Check this out!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3411/3595966260_af8dddfeab_o.jpg
Ahaha :D Nice.

I actually like that a lot better.

[Edward VanHelgen]

Check this out!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3411/3595966260_af8dddfeab_o.jpg

haha great

[RockNRoll]

I don't feel like they've ever gotten Guybrush right since 1 and 2. 3 was such a radical change. 4 actually was closer to the original Guybrush. TOMI looks like 3 to me.

I long for the day when I really feel like I'm playing an evolution of the originals.

[threepcross]

EfMI Guybrush was pretty good. he should've been the third. then maybe I could accept CoMI as the fourth.

[DanH]

Something about the hair...

http://up.ppy.sh/files/1990sguybrush.png

There we go! Now THAT'S a 1990 look!

This is pure perfection.

[doodo!]

TOMI is far more invovative and has its own style.

[Irishmile]

I'm actually OK with all of them... as long as he acts the same throughout all of the games.

[RockNRoll]

i will say that the gameplay vid looks much better than the screenshots, and it looks like nice and responsive and quick too. hopefully it stays that way. i would still much rather see some high res artwork with details like rotting wood, decay, fog, moody lighting, vast landscapes, etc intricate details like that add so much to the old ones.

[Laserschwert]

Maybe they just mixed up the games for the remake... this would've worked:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3947/mmgz.jpg

[Irishmile]

^^^^ thats awesome ^^^^^


Here is what I would have done differently.... His forehead was too high... his hair is all wrong.. Something odd about his eyes and lighting between them... and he had elf ears.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3148/32516927.jpg

[threepcross]

you should send it to LA, because I agree with you.

[LukeSW]

Am I the only one who - gasp! - likes the remake's version of Guybrush, then?

[der_ketzer]

Am I the only one who - gasp! - likes the remake's version of Guybrush, then?

OMG. Get this man (or woman) in a Zoo so we can watch and study him.
This has to be the only person on the planet who likes Guybrush Foreheads - the mighty pirate.

[Shiversul]

Wtf is with his whole face?

Look at his ears for christ sakes

[threepcross]

nah he's alright. I agree that the hair is a bit over the top. literally.

[Armakuni]

Looks like he belongs in a horror flick, in that picture anyway.

[LuigiHann]

Am I the only one who - gasp! - likes the remake's version of Guybrush, then?

Honestly I think it's fine except for his sharp-sided hair. Particularly from the side, the shadow is just so stark it's like he's got a helmet on.

http://www.thunderpeel2001.com/webpics/fckhead.jpg

[MusicallyInspired]

I appreciate the whole art direction. I like it. Period. I've been waiting too long for good adventures to come back to get all purist like I used to.

[Edward VanHelgen]

Honestly I think it's fine except for his sharp-sided hair.

not just hair, check SE artwork, looks much better

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7780/mi1segb1.th.png (http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mi1segb1.png)

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2796/mi1segb2a.th.png (http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mi1segb2a.png)

[GozzoMan]

I'm fine with the other characters in the SE, and even Guybrush would be not bad... if not for the mentioned hairstyle. It makes it all simply UNWATCHABLE in my opinion.

I will simply pass on SE.

On the contrary I quite like ToMI graphics, and I especially love the hand-drawn concepts of Guybrush.

[Arodin]

Maybe they just mixed up the games for the remake... this would've worked:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3947/mmgz.jpg

This cracked me up. He fits right in with that wacky bunch

[LukeSW]

I think that both Tales of Monkey Island and the remake look great, but in different ways. Yeah, I know that sounds a bit wishy-washy, but it's true. Game franchises should move on; it's always a mistake for them to remain unchanged. Although I'm always wary about 2d franchises making the move to 3d, it can be done well in some cases and I believe that Telltale are on the right track.

I really like the vibrant, atmospheric lighting of the remake, but the animation in Telltale's game seems to add a lot of character to both the environments and the, err, characters.

[firsttimeuser]

Having only read page 1 I got to join to say that SoMI:SE has two major turn-offs for me so I will not buy it over 5$

1) Guybrush looks like an idiot[0]. I think it is mainly his half closed eyes characterizing him as if he is doing dope at least every 5 secons. I just hate that look on people (though in real life I get over it as several people can't do anything against it.) To me the model had to be altered in terms of eyes, eye brows and forehead. I can live with the hair do but if somebody would be on it change that to a more normal degree as well. Other characters, as far as I have seen them, look much nicer and more fitting. It's a shame the main character fails so epic.

2) It comes from a company that I spent a huge amount of my pocket money for only to see them go chickenshit[1] because of some now wrong proved happy marketing horseshit[2] with a 70% - 90% finished game[3]. That really made me go apeshit[4]. After seeing the artwork I wished they stayed under my radar with some more Star Wars games[5].


Anticipating in the same way as when S&M was announced:
Michael
(wow... learned a thing about me today: I really seem to like footnotes O_o)


[0] sorry, other good alternatives were more mean and nicer alternatives do not fit here :( Though this is solely my opinion and luckily you do not have to agree with me ;-)
[1] I am sorry for swearing :(
[2] I am really sorry for swearing :(
[3] tanks to god events lead to the foudation of a really great and lovealbe company
[4] if you wouldn't have guessed by now I was really upset that day I read the announcemet and still get when thinking of it. A really sad day, following a really sad week and month after it. Again sorry for swearing in this post :'(
[5] I really love Episode 4-6 and some games but there is a point where you can overdo and make a fan lose his interest.

[Fury]

I thought CMI was the best Monkey Island in terms of graphics.

Although I agree MI3 looked better in Tales, we have to be realistic. The 3D is actually pretty decent, and captures the cartoonyness really well. It's not perfect, but it's the only form we are going to see in an Episodic form, due to costs. So I'm fine with it.

Special Edition does look a bit better, but we've already heard (sorry read) the lines before, and we've already done puzzles. So I'm looking forward to TOMI the most.

[SurplusGamer]

Did someone seriously just say that they're not going to get SE because of hair?

[MusicallyInspired]

You know old-timers. Stuck in their ways.

[GenisSageAceAttourny]

I'm not saying they should go with a loss. did you even read what I wrote? I said it's sad that money is an issue.

also - yes I would work for free.

Sounds noble, and easy to say... but consider this. There is a cost of living. Sad, but true. Noble as it is to say "I won't dance the dance, or play their game" (not literally, but you get what I mean), it just doesn't work. You still must pay taxes, and eat, and pay for water, electricity, gas, insurance, medicine... you simply must be able to sustain yourself for a living. Working for free is very noble... but it isn't at all permanent. Consider this; working for free, you may be able to get by for a few months, assuming you have money put away... working for pay, you may be able to continue for years, before worrying about living. It is just simply implausible to believe you can get by on no pay.

[Secret Fawful]

After seeing the artwork I wished they stayed under my radar with some more Star Wars games[5].

[5] I really love Episode 4-6 and some games but there is a point where you can overdo and make a fan lose his interest.

The artwork isn't THAT bad. You're overreacting. The backgrounds look gorgeous in HD; you can also still play the ORIGINAL game with just the press of a button.
And even if Guybrush was replaced with a model of Jar Jar Binks the game would still stand up under it's great writing, puzzles, and music. (But I would play the game with my eyes closed)

[doodo!]

I think that this guybrush was supposed to be a mixture of Mi3- and 2 and 1 guybrush. It looks to me like a mutant m3 -m1 guybrush, mixed with duke nukem . The rest of the characters, which aren't as controversial and widely disputed are drawn just fine. Elaine looks nicely designed, beautiful , and natural , smooth, Guyrbush looks over thought, pressured, un-natural . Lucas arts was so much more, like a shop on dagobah swamp offering the ultimate tales . Monkey island , DOTT , sam and max , etc etc . Then they lost sight of the imanigation, the scenery and they moved their shop to the death star's cold, dark, scarey basement . Rebel Assualt was one of the few truly innovative SW games they ever made.

[jp-30]

Special Edition Guybrush hair patch released;

http://www.mixnmojo.com/php/news/showfile.php?id=3542&category=lucasartsnews

[SHODANFreeman]

Special Edition Guybrush hair patch released;

http://www.mixnmojo.com/php/news/showfile.php?id=3542&category=lucasartsnews

His forehead has a big straight line across it that prevents me from wanting to use that.

[guitarsareboring]

Special Edition Guybrush hair patch released;

http://www.mixnmojo.com/php/news/showfile.php?id=3542&category=lucasartsnews

It's an improvement but as closeups remain the same it'd be a bit weird to have his hair change in the middle of the game.

[Secret Fawful]

In my opinion, it needed more work before it was released. In this stage I don't think I would use it. But keep working on it and it'll be a great alternative.

[meander]

Rofl it's brilliant they actually did that - good work :) I will certainly get it for next time I play through the Special Edition.

[Armakuni]

You know old-timers. Stuck in their ways.
That's stupid. Guybrush looks ridiculous and for some people it actually matters what the guy you have to look at throughout the entire game looks like.
Doesn't have to have anything to do with being an 'old-timer', it certainly isn't in my case.
I did buy the game, but I hate how Guybrush looks.

I could just as easy say that you are one of the people so desperate for new adventure games that you will make yourself fall in love with anything, regardless of quality.

That's just an example, I don't believe that's the case - but the point is, it's a silly statement, just like yours.

I know there are people like what you describe, but people are much to keen to ignore pretty much all criticism and just blame it on 'stubborn old-timers set in their ways'.

[TookiGuy]

<Sigh> It's not HORRID, it's not BAD, it's not MEDIOCRE, it's not GOOD, it's not GREAT.
It's just a little frickin' hurried.



FIN.

The backgrounds are great, I mean, if you complain about THAT, then yes, you are a stubborn old-timer.

[WinterSnowblind]

2D isn't instantly better because that's how things were in the past.

3D games can look just as good, and they don't need to be ultra advanced Gears of War 2 style graphics to achieve that. Personally, I think Tales look far better than the Special Edition graphics. MI3's style was much better, in my opinion, but going the hand drawn route is just even more time consuming and expensive to produce.

[TookiGuy]

^ I personally find the PS2 era graphics to be the best, in terms of 3D. I'm probably alone on that, though.

[thatdude98]

2d better? Tis to laugh!

[LeChuck1986]

The only reason why the 2.5D in the SE looks awefull, is because it had to work with switching between the old and new version.

Next time, I rather have them do 2 games in 1 without the switching, so that the animation can be smoother.
That and voices in the old graphics version as an extra option.

[thatdude98]

^^^^ thats awesome ^^^^^


Here is what I would have done differently.... His forehead was too high... his hair is all wrong.. Something odd about his eyes and lighting between them... and he had elf ears.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3148/32516927.jpg

That... looks... GREAT!

[MrFerder]

I'm a 3D fan. I think, when done well, it makes for a more immersive, fun-to-explore world.
If ToMI was originally released in 2D, and then someone posted shots of a 3D project they were doing of it everybody would go ga-ga over them. I've seen that happen all the time with Secret and Curse , and most recently Lechuck's Revenge.

Unfortunately no game has looked as good as it could in 3D. The technology wasn't advanced enough in EfMI. There were too many visible pixels on the character models, but the pre-rendered backgrounds looked awesome.
Telltale is running in an old graphics engine, but you can tell they're pushing its capabilities to the max. The ocean scenes don't looks so fine, but the buildings look as good as the pre-renderd Escape ones, and the character models aren't quite so blocky.
Things look a bit plasticy in parts, so it would probably help if the environment textures were dirtied up a little.