Abandonware: Good, Or Evil (Or awesome)

[Pvt._Public]

I know this is something that a lot of people are always talking about and i also know that there may be a lot of people who are going to call me filthy pirating scum for this and ALSO that there may be another thread much like this hidden elsewhere in the forum but basically, what do you think? Abandonware good or bad?
Personally, having been born back in 1990 i missed out on all the classic games such as Maniac Mansion and whatnot. Also i was a little too young at the time to think that most of the games around then were any good. Where were the explosions? now days though i find my self spending vast sums of money continuously buying classic games. Some games though are impossible to find (at least in NZ). The point is that i download a lot of abandonware. Indiana Jones and the fate of atlantis being the latest one (please, no links). I am aware that some of the people at telltale game may have worked on some of these classic games but i'm sure they know what i'm talking about. Once again, what do you think? should Lucasarts etc. continue saying that i shouldn't download their games despite there being no other way to get them or not?

[littleguybrush]

I think it depends. If it's the only way you can get your hands on a game...I guess it's ok. But, Indiana Jones is most certaintly not abandoned.You obviously didn't even check the company store. (http://www.lucasarts.com/companystore/adventure)
Most people are just looking for free games and will download anything they find on the internet. Whatever happened to supporting the developers?

[xChri5x]

I'll admit Ive downloaded Sam And MAx and Day of the Tentacle. Both I'm having trouble fixing the sound issues for on windows xp.
But I'll let you know right now If I see them in stores I'd buy them. I'm still looking in pawn shops etc.

Also I already own Day of the Tentacle and Sam and Max for Mac. But I don't have a mac anymore, so I can't play them sadly.
At least I can still use the hint books that came with them.

[Steve2000]

On Abandonware: I guess I would have to say evil. I definitely don't like the idea that games are just being pirated around the internet. I am happy to say that I am old enough to have purchased and still own almost every classic adventure game since Kings Quest 1. I know that all are not so lucky so... I also think it stinks that these companies (Sierra, Lucasarts, et al) don't have the decency to continue to sell these old games. Why not offer the games for download on their website for US $ 5.00 or less? Many people try to illegally download music, but Apple iTunes has shown that plenty of people are willing to a pay a nominal fee to get their music legitimately.

On getting Lucasarts games to work on WinXP: Once again Summvm is the way to go get it here -> www.scummvm.org

[Alucard]

If the game is obsolete and the company isn't making any money off it anymore then why not. There isn't anything to lose on it. Games go obsolete almost as fast as pc hardware. I guess companies are just afraid that people will play all the old games and not buy new ones or something supid like that. As for selling them at 5 bucks US each? Give me a break already. Haven't they milked the public enough ? I'd just put the 5 bucks towards some new game instead. Why not freely distribute them with coupons for new games the company is coming out with or something, maybe the'll get hooked on a series and buy stuff but at least let it be up to date things people spend money on. Like if a game is more then 5 years old and a company is still trying to sell it thats pretty weak.

[pennstat]

On Abandonware: I guess I would have to say evil. I definitely don't like the idea that games are just being pirated around the internet. :(( I have never understood this mentality. The game is no longer commercially available; no one makes any profit or revenue from it; no one really cares to claim responsibility for it; it gets shoved into the back corner of the closet, destined for forced-obscurity; yet, we're suppsed to bury our head in the ground out of shame if we download it becuase of being the nasty pirates that we are. I will never understand that.

I would have absolutely no problem giving a quick PayPal payment of a few bucks to any game owner/publisher who still makes an old, favorite game available for download without draconian DRM. But if no one cares enough about protecting its copyright, they will by default lose it (at least in the U.S.). You should look up the legal history of the Thermos company to see proof of that.

I used to make software about 10 years ago. I would not be surprised if some of them are still going around. I gave up developing them years ago. So, am I supposed to be incensed if something that I abandoned is still being distributed? I think not.

Sorry for the extended rant, but the "stealing is stealing" attitudes have been a hot button of mine for a l-o-n-g time.

As to awesome vaporware, a few weeks ago I rebuilt an old Pentium 350 w/ PC-DOS 7 (legal) and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (legal) just to play Magic Carpet (legal), which AFAIC is one of the best games every released. (I even have the TCP/IP stack installed! I can surf the Internet through my DSL connection using Netscape 4.08! How's *that* for geeky? :D )

[littleguybrush]

If the game is obsolete and the company isn't making any money off it anymore then why not. There isn't anything to lose on it. Games go obsolete almost as fast as pc hardware. I guess companies are just afraid that people will play all the old games and not buy new ones or something supid like that. As for selling them at 5 bucks US each? Give me a break already. Haven't they milked the public enough ? I'd just put the 5 bucks towards some new game instead. Why not freely distribute them with coupons for new games the company is coming out with or something, maybe the'll get hooked on a series and buy stuff but at least let it be up to date things people spend money on. Like if a game is more then 5 years old and a company is still trying to sell it thats pretty weak.

Yeah, ok. I'm going to march into my local Best Buy and demand that the DVDs for all TV shows and movies that are older than five years old be given to me free of charge. The solution is not to start giving games away, but to sell older games. I think it's grat when compaines support their old games by selling them on their website. Geez, it's not like you're going to pay full price.

[Alucard]

screw the selling of old games already, the company has already made enough friggen money off of it. It's not like abandonware costs them anything. Your example to march into best buy and demand stuff for free is absurd. Cause there is material costs etc involved. Think of it as taping an old movie thats on tv that you tape (and no not ppv or anything like that I'm talking old movies on basic cable) Plus tv shows and movies don't fade out quite the same way as games do. Take a game like doom or wolf 3d. Those games arn't worth a dime anymore. The same could be said about some tv shows =P. But what I'm saying that the amount that the technology has progressed through the years makes old games uncomparable to those of today.

[pennstat]

Yeah, ok. I'm going to march into my local Best Buy and demand that the DVDs for all TV shows and movies that are older than five years old be given to me free of charge. That is a very, very poor argument.

Abandonware is not judged by its age but by whether or not it is no longer made available commercially and whether or not its copyright is actively enforced by the copyright owner. Technically, if a game is made available even for a few dollars by the copyright owner, it cannot be categorized as abandonware. In that circumstance the game should be purchased and distribution can be classified is illegal.

However, if the game is no longer available for commercial purchase, the publisher is no longer in existance, and the curernt copyright holders (if any) are voluntarily not enforcing their copyright, that most certainly categorizes it as abandonware. The game should be made available to whomever wants it without fear of "you evil pirate" guilt-trippers on his or her tail.

[littleguybrush]

Yeah, ok. I'm going to march into my local Best Buy and demand that the DVDs for all TV shows and movies that are older than five years old be given to me free of charge. That is a very, very poor argument.

Abandonware is not judged by its age but by whether or not it is no longer made available commercially and whether or not its copyright is actively enforced by the copyright owner. Technically, if a game is made available even for a few dollars by the copyright owner, it cannot be categorized as abandonware. In that circumstance the game should be purchased and distribution can be classified is illegal.

However, if the game is no longer available for commercial purchase, the publisher is no longer in existance, and the curernt copyright holders (if any) are voluntarily not enforcing their copyright, that most certainly categorizes it as abandonware. The game should be made available to whomever wants it without fear of "you evil pirate" guilt-trippers on his or her tail.

Who's guilt-tripping? He's the one who brought up the arbitrary five year rule. Of course my argument was absurd. That was the point. I completely agree with everything else you said.

[littleguybrush]

screw the selling of old games already, the company has already made enough friggen money off of it.

What company? What if they didn't make a lot of money? What if the game sold 30,000 copies?

Take a game like doom or wolf 3d. Those games arn't worth a dime anymore.

Why not? Because they're old? Because they're graphics are outdated? They're still a lot of fun to play. Casual games are very popular right now and they have outdated graphics and simplified gameplay. Why can't ID charge casual game prices?

[pennstat]

Who's guilt-tripping?Trust me. There are many (too many) tunnel-visioned, letter-of-the-law gestapo types out there who have no qualms in trying to lay guilt on any kind of copying. I've gotten into plenty of debates with them.
Of course my argument was absurd. That was the point.Just making sure. ;)

[Alucard]

this post got me thinking a bit more. It would be nice if companies offered their abandonware at their websites and did things on an optional donation type basis. Cause that way people would know they were getting a clean game and it would be up to them if they wanted to donate. Then proceeds could go to a charity or something like that. I'm sure it'd be good pr. Like I think some games were like that like quake II where you could dl the source code and stuff like that.

[littleguybrush]

this post got me thinking a bit more. It would be nice if companies offered their abandonware at their websites and did things on an optional donation type basis. Cause that way people would know they were getting a clean game and it would be up to them if they wanted to donate. Then proceeds could go to a charity or something like that. I'm sure it'd be good pr. Like I think some games were like that like quake II where you could dl the source code and stuff like that.

Well, some do. Revolution recently released their older adventure games into the public domain. It's great when companies do that, but it should be left up to the company what they want to do with their games. In a perfect world all games would either be easy to buy, or freeware. Unfortunately this isn't the case. I have no problem with abandonware (Ive got an abandonware site in my favorites). What ticks me off are the people who download an old game just because its old, even if its available to purchase. That isnt abandonware. Thats stealing.

Edit:Trust me. There are many (too many) tunnel-visioned, letter-of-the-law gestapo types out there who have no qualms in trying to lay guilt on any kind of copying. I've gotten into plenty of debates with them.

I really hope I don't come off as one of those guys. I'm not.

[Alucard]

yeah reminds me of simon the sorcerer. That game is so old and last time I checked (actually it's been a while now) it wasn't abandoned yet

[Pvt._Public]

I think it depends. If it's the only way you can get your hands on a game...I guess it's ok. But, Indiana Jones is most certaintly not abandoned.You obviously didn't even check the company store. (http://www.lucasarts.com/companystore/adventure)
Most people are just looking for free games and will download anything they find on the internet. Whatever happened to supporting the developers?

Trust me, I tried that site many a time but they refuse to sell games to anywhere that isn't in the USA or Canada. The point i'm trying to get across is that sometimes it is actually humanly impossible for some people to get games unless they spend a vast sum of money moving to USA. or possibly making a time machine. before i download anything i try to find somewhere that actually still sells the game but as has been pointed out, most people don't think of New Zealand as a real country. I support the developers alot as i don't actually support piracy (except of course for when i there is no other option and i really NEED to experience a game) and spent a large sum of money on Sam and Max, Day of the tentacle, Broken Swords 1 and 2, Monkey Island 1 and 2 and many more but it was a long and painful journey to get each of these games. The only reason i actually got any of them was because of a stroke of luck. Revolution was clever and released Beneath a Steel Sky and Lure Of The Temptress because they realized that it was near impossible to find these games anymore and they wanted people to play these games. Not just hear about them. For Broken Swords 1 and 2 they provide links to a few websites that ship about the world. If all the old games publishers would do this, I wouldn't use abandonware. But they don't so i will continue downloading these classics as it is the only thing i can do to play these games. especially seeing as Lucasarts seem to not want to have anything to do with their actual good game licenses.

[BarfHappy]

I got nearly all lucas adventures in abandonware form or cd image because i owned them all but my cds have been stolen or are now in unusable condition (except monkey 3) and i don t have a floppy drive anymore. I just plain love scummvm.

I did cheat however, like grabing Zak for FM towns (i got this one on C64) or loom CD (mine was a floppy one) to refinish the game with discovery. I bought DOTT twice however (floppy version and later the CD version when i got a CD drive)

I don t feel guilty at all.

[tyraarane]

I have abandonware versions of MI1 and 2 for the Macintosh...which I got back when I only had a Mac with OS 9, so no ScummVM for me, and actually did already own the PC versions of the games (I tried to get them working with an emulator before giving up and going the abandonware route). I don't regret it or see it as stealing, as the Mac versions of those two games are definitely abandonware--I would've bought them if they were available, but no such luck.

I also have abandonware versions of Loom and Zak McKracken, for the same reason...I'd like to buy them, but LucasArts doesn't sell them.

[Burn]

I've downloaded abandonware. Every time I have I've always hesitated. I suppose the word piracy makes me think, " Die you evil scummbags, you're destroying our movie, gaming and music industries ." Then I buy 40 copies of a blockbuster hit starring Pamela Anderson that's scheduled to come out in 2008. I think that downloading abandonware is probably the weakest form of piracy. Why? Most forms of piracy applies to things that are in there prime. A movie might only have only have come onto the market a day ago. A abandoned game is at least 2 years old.

[Udvarnoky]

There's no such thing as abandonware, is there? A game is either freeware, or it isn't.

[pennstat]

There's no such thing as abandonware, is there? A game is either freeware, or it isn't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

[Udvarnoky]

Yes, I'm aware of how pirates define the term in order to make themselves feel better, but it doesn't actually exist from a legal standpoint, right? A game can only be legally downloaded if a) the copyright-holder makes it freeware, b) the holder makes it public domain, or c) the copyright expires. And considering, thanks to recent laws, that said copyrights don't expire for like 95 years after failure to renew, that's not even a possibility yet.

So really, there's no legal way to download a game that isn't already offered for download by the copyright-holding party. I mean obviously people download games all the time, but the fact that companies don't sell the games anymore doesn't really matter or make it any less illegal.

[Steve2000]

There's no such thing as abandonware, is there?

You are correct Udvarnoky in essence. Obviously there are many games termed abandonware - but even the people who host abandonware sites acknowledge that what they are doing is technically illegal. They typically have a policy that although it is illegal they will continue to distribute the games until the copyright holder makes some noise, at which point they pull the games off their site. Obviously since many of the copyright holders don't care that their games are being distributed for free since they are out of business, the game is so outdated, or for other reasons abandonware will continue to exist.

Basically it is like rolling slowly through a stop sign without stopping. Where I live in California, even if a police officer sees you do that they will rarely stop you. Technically I break the law every day doing this - I don't have a problem with it. I also have to understand that if a cop does see me and decides to give me a ticket I have earned it and can't argue.

The same goes for Abandonware - it is sometimes nice that these games are there, but as soon as someone gets upset about it, we don't really have the right to be mad. It sucks that certain companies can't see the light and release these games for free themselves, or declare them freeware, but the bottom line is that the copyright laws are fundamentally very good and important and we should be happy that they are there.

Sorry for the long post.

[algardex]

ok since this thread is getting legal lets clarify some things before somebody in here gets sued for defamation ;)
1)Everything is legal unless a law says it is not.
2) We have two kinds of laws a)local/country laws and b)international laws
3)International laws can be only applied in a country if the country agrees and signs some kind of legal document.
4) sometimes there are conflicts between international laws and local/country laws because one law's content may negate or oppose the content the other law has, this is usually very messy when it happens and things simply get "stuck".
5) laws can have "legal windows"( I translated that term directly from Greek so it might not make any sense- I'll try to explain) these "windows" are parameters/situations/conditions that might occur that the people who made the law have not thought of or the law is badly written or confusing that does not cover those cases or the law enforcers can't understand if it does or does not cover those cases.
6) for certain issues, like the legal/illegal download of games, there are no laws and in order for the law enforcers/courts to deal with those issues they have merged them with other issues with which they have some common characteristics and for which laws exist, but since these laws are not made for those issues the amount of legal windows is huge
now to get back to the abandonware issue, there is no specific law for that issue(in Greece at least, and I am sure in many other countries too) so what has happened is what I describe in part 6 above, which i don't want to write again, and this other law under which this issue falls, says in simple words "it is illegal to download a game that is commercially available" nothing else. the legal window here is that downloading games that are no longer commercially available is legal because the law does not make it illegal
and the really wicked part in this legal mayhem is that if a Greek abandonware site has some non commercial games on it the only way they can be removed is if the copyrights owner wants them removed (international copyright law etc) but this can only happen if the country accepts that international law( Greece does) however the "wicked" part in our case is that the site can put the games up again seconds after they are removed because the Greek law in this case permits it not by legalizing but from not illegalizing it, that is case of law conflict. Funny eh? Anyway since this post is getting huge and i have enough material to write a book I will stop here with a small summary an apology and a hint for those who might have though "what do we care about Greek laws etc". Summary: Abandonware sites and downloading content from them is not software piracy and it is not illegal not because it is legal but because it is not illegal. Apology: sorry for the size but I really had to get it out of my system, Hint: websites(some or all, need to do some more research on this issue) are treated in the same way as commercial airplanes/ships and embassies are treated. :D that is as part of that country in which they belong and the laws and regulations of that country are the only ones that are enforced. Happy downloads kids

[Alucard]

so legal this thread now is. (damn that sounded like yoda )
I think people just wanted to have peoples opinion apart from how legal it is or not.

[pennstat]

Yes, I'm aware of how pirates define the term in order to make themselves feel betterOh, very nice.
the fact that companies don't sell the games anymore doesn't really matter or make it any less illegal.Yes, I'm aware of how many demigods like to push the term "illegality" (or derivative) in order to make themselves feel superior...

[pennstat]

I think people just wanted to have peoples opinion apart from how legal it is or not.Unfortunately, this is a topic that is very difficult to keep out of the legal spotlight just because of its very nature. The subject of the thread ("good or evil") lends itself to that type of discussion as well, at least on the surface. Perhaps a better title might have been "Good, Not Worth Playing (or Awesome)" to try to keep it in line with people's opinions of playability and gaming value.

But I'll try to bring the thread back into that particular topic. It's clear that if Udvarnoky and I do not just agree to disagree, this will become a much hotter thread than it should be. We're obviously going to end up polarizing the thread if the legal discussion continues. I suggest we deviate from that course immediately.

The value, of course, depends on the game, just like anything else. But for the most part, the over-complexities of today's games often make the simplicity of older games very appealing when the focus was on the game more than the "oohs" and "aahs" that seem to push today's games. There were some games that were utter crap while some still stand the test of time, IMHO.

Abandonware that I still enjoy from days long past, many from companies that have long since vanished:
- "Magic Carpet" (PC DOS - Bullfrog)
- "Defender of the Crown" (C64 - Cinemaware)
- "Jumpman" (C64 - Epyx)
- "Space Taxi" (C64 - Muse)
- "Arctic Fox" (C64 - Electronic Arts)
- "Stellar 7" / "Nova 9" (PC DOS - Sierra On-Line)
- "Tank Wars" / "Scorched Earth" (PC DOS - Unknown)
- "Airborne Ranger" (C64 - Microprose)
- "LHX" (PC DOS - Electronic Arts)
- "Su-27 Stormovik" (PC DOS - Electronic Arts)

Great, great stuff. All of it. So-o-o-o many hours spent playing these games.

And sometimes -- sometimes! -- I actually get a hankering to fire up the old Atari 2600 emulator and have an adventure going after that blasted duck ... er ... dragon. :D

[Udvarnoky]

Yes, I'm aware of how many demigods like to push the term "illegality" (or derivative) in order to make themselves feel superior...

Clearly you have a knack for misinterpretation and overreacting. I'm out.

[Alucard]

lol

[pennstat]

Clearly you have a knack for misinterpretation and overreacting.I've dealt with far too many people since before you were born who think that "the law is the law is the law is the law, black and white, no ifs, ands, or buts, and you should be in prison if you do anything that even slightly violates it." Whereas I have no love for software pirates and the enormous financial losses that they cause the software industry, I have no love for "law is abosolute" supporters either. The emphases in your statement and the accusation within it lent your position the latter type of attitude.
I'm out.Then back to the discussion at hand.

[Alucard]

yeah no need to waste your time on this youngin

[misanthrope]

I just remember when I mentioned abandonware a while ago. It was like I said a curse word. Moderator edits on my posts and everything. You know what, if the company doesnt care enough about the product anymore to back it up, then I find no problem with using it free of charge. It only helps to strengthen the fan base and/or market value of other games. If you feel like its wrong to download abandonware, by all means, be a good boy/girl and try to find it on a shelf somewhere, in a store you've never heard of, that exclusively sells antiques and relics, on the discount PC titles rack. Not gonna happen.

[Pvt._Public]

Woah. I didn't mean for this to happen. By the way, in case you haven't read anything else i've written i'm behind the publishers/developers all the way. All i basically wanted to see was what everyone else out there thought about abandonware. Didn't mean for all the legal mumbo-jumbo to appear (it confused and kind of bored my little simpleton mind).
By the way, the whole "(or awesome)" thing was just something that happened after spending a little too much time watching strongbad cartoons. Doesn't mean i think piracy is cool because i get to play games without legally obtaining them. or something

[Burn]

I just remember when I mentioned abandonware a while ago. It was like I said a curse word. Moderator edits on my posts and everything.
Weren't you giving away the url for a (cough) illegal (cough) abandoware site. I'd seen it before somewhere, and I'm sure it wasn't legit.

[artwking]

If it's the one I think it is (the place of residence for canines who don't get enough credit ;) ), I've personally never been able to download a thing from that particular site. Not even completely legitimate freeware independant games that were exclusively hosted there. I just kept getting error messages.

[misanthrope]

Isn't America the land of the free anyway?

[pennstat]

Ironically, I just found this (http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/05/03/14/1221237.shtml?tid=103&tid=123&tid=17) on Slashdot:

The US Copyright Office is currently reviewing the law as it applies to "orphan works" and "abandonware". The question is how to treat works (books, films, software, etc.) for which the copyright owner cannot be found so that permission can be granted to republish or create derivative works. "The issue is whether orphan works are being needlessly removed from public access and their dissemination inhibited. If no one claims the copyright in a work," they write, "it appears likely that the public benefit of having access to the work would outweigh whatever copyright interest there might be."

[pennstat]

Doesn't mean i think piracy is cool because i get to play games without legally obtaining them. or somethingAh, but that's the grey area that everyone is trying to sort out. IS it illegal? If so, is it illegal because of what it is, or is it illegal only when someone presses charges? It is illegal when its owners are no longer around? If not, should it be? If someone intentionally abandons a puppy on the side of the road and you take it home, is that dognapping? That's the crux of the issue. And as you can see, there are people on all sides of the issue vying for dominance.

[Steve2000]

The US Copyright Office is currently reviewing the law as it applies to "orphan works" and "abandonware"....

This is why I love the internet - it shows how slow beaurocrats are at getting things done.

This whole debate just makes me smile. :)

[Pvt._Public]

What i meant was that though i do download abandonware i don't just go, "Hey! Doom III was kind of fun. I think i'll just go and pay 5 dollars and get it burnt to disk". I appreciate that many people have spent possibly years slaving away making a game. But some games, they were around in 1989 and nobody longer wishes to know about it and the copyright stopped back in 2000 and i really REALLY want to play it and after about 1 month of searching a i can't legally buy it, i'll download it. I ain't no pirate just because of that am i?

[Fop]

Yes, I'm aware of how pirates define the term in order to make themselves feel better, but it doesn't actually exist from a legal standpoint, right?


Freeware doesn't exist from a legal standpoint either. A game is either Public Domain or it's not, most freeware games aren't. Freeware and abandonware are both terms invented by gamers.

[Udvarnoky]

Ah, OK. So the term freeware is made up as well. But I thought companies could make games free without having to relinquish the rights to them.

[pennstat]

What i meant was that though i do download abandonware i don't just go, "Hey! Doom III was kind of fun. I think i'll just go and pay 5 dollars and get it burnt to disk". Yeah, but Doom III is most certainly not abandonware. That's out-and-out piracy. The key is that "abandonware" has never really been defined. Is it piracy or isn't it? So, the Doom III analogy doesn't quite work, but I know what you're saying.
But some games, they were around in 1989 and nobody longer wishes to know about it and the copyright stopped back in 2000 and i really REALLY want to play it and after about 1 month of searching a i can't legally buy it, i'll download it. I ain't no pirate just because of that am i?That's the debate. I don't see how anyone can be considered as such. Obviously, others do.

[pennstat]

Freeware doesn't exist from a legal standpoint either. A game is either Public Domain or it's not, most freeware games aren't. Freeware and abandonware are both terms invented by gamers.
No, that's not true. "Freeware" is a viable term in that it has a different license than public domain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware

"Public domain" is just that - it belongs to the public who can do whatever they want with the material.
So the term freeware is made up as well. But I thought companies could make games free without having to relinquish the rights to them.
That is correct. "Freeware" is software that is made available to the public for free; however, it is still owned under copyright by the software company or developer. The public can legally distribute freeware, but cannot alter or modify it without express consent of the copyright holder.

Freeware authors often also put other stipulations, such as the software cannot be sold, cannot be included with another package, and so forth.

The statement that it was developed by gamers is also not correct. The term "freeware" was not coined by gamers. It was started by someone who wanted to distribute a communications program. Freeware includes all types of software, not just games. You can get software under "distributed as freeware" licensing for just about any category imaginable.

[Burn]

If it's the one I think it is (the place of residence for canines who don't get enough credit )

BING! BING! BING BING!! BING! We have a winner.

[Fop]

No, that's not true. "Freeware" is a viable term in that it has a different license than public domain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware

"Public domain" is just that - it belongs to the public who can do whatever they want with the material.
So the term freeware is made up as well. But I thought companies could make games free without having to relinquish the rights to them.
That is correct. "Freeware" is software that is made available to the public for free; however, it is still owned under copyright by the software company or developer. The public can legally distribute freeware, but cannot alter or modify it without express consent of the copyright holder.


Yes, but my point was that freeware is not a legal term. It's a term that describes software that has a license that allows anyone to spread it. You won't find the term in a lawbook like Public Domain. Or maybe you will, I'm not an expert on this.

[pennstat]

Yes, but my point was that freeware is not a legal term. It's a term that describes software that has a license that allows anyone to spread it. You won't find the term in a lawbook like Public Domain. Or maybe you will, I'm not an expert on this.The term has been used for over a decade to represent a specific type of legal, licensing methodology. It might not be in a dictionary, but that doesn't make the term any less valid. Besides, any issue regarding law will be defined by the terms of the End User License Agreement (EULA) for the application/utility/game that is in legal question, not the descriptive word that's assigned to that type of licensing. Different types of freeware have different types of licensing. The licensing is what any lawyer would be concerned about.

[Fop]

Umm... Yes, exactly.

[Alucard]

yup good old eula............
>_>
<_<

[cappuchok]

Abandonware, in the sense that most people use it, is inherently bad, since it is also illegal. Copyrights don't just expire because noone defends them. It is always better to have the consent of the copyright holder.

Now, there is a considerable movement in the games industry towards releasing old games as freeware, subject to license agreements that make it clear that the developers still hold the copyright. Many developers use the GPL or similar licenses if they release source code along with the game.
Some people like to refer to these previously commercial games as "liberated games".

Some high-profile examples include:
Rockstar Games (released GTA 1 & 2, and Wild Metal)
Team17 (released their entire Amiga lineup of games)
Revolution (released Beneath a Steel Sky to ScummVM)

A good place to start looking for officially liberated games is, apparently, liberatedgames.org (http://liberatedgames.org) .

[artwking]

Some high-profile examples include:
Rockstar Games (released GTA 1 & 2, and Wild Metal)
Team17 (released their entire Amiga lineup of games)

A good place to start looking for officially liberated games is, apparently, liberatedgames.org (http://liberatedgames.org) .
I did not know about these, or this site. Very nice, thank you, cappuchok!

[pennstat]

Abandonware, in the sense that most people use it, is inherently bad, since it is also illegal..
See, this is exactly the kind of attitude that gets under my skin.

You cannot equate illegal with being inherently bad. There are many things that were illegal that now are not. It was once illegal for women to vote. So, women voting was inherently bad?

Conversely, there are a lot of things that are now illegal that are by no means inherently bad. Just look at the number of lawsuits being by the legal abuse of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. It's now to the point where Congress realized that they were stupid in enacting the bill as it now is as it does nothing more than strip away consumers' rights. I guess that consumers' rights are inherently bad in your world since many actions that were once legal are now illegal.

Your statement that anyone downloading a game that is no longer supported, sold, or even cared about by its original developers is performing an inherently bad action is mind-numbingly short sighted.

You're going to be lawyer, I take it.

(See? You folks just had to hit this hot button again, didn't you! :D )