Similarities in character designs...

[LionelM]

The designs for LeChuck, Voodoo Lady, Guybrush and the french doctor were great, but it really seems that every other character was essentially the same two designs re-used except with alterations made to skin color and hair. Was anyone else bothered by this? I can see why this would be done for "extras", but to have somewhat important characters presented this way was little disappointing.

Very pleased with the game otherwise, by the way. Good job, Tell Tale folks.

[broodwars]

The designs for LeChuck, Voodoo Lady, Guybrush and the french doctor were great, but it really seems that every other character was essentially the same two designs re-used except with alterations made to skin color and hair. Was anyone else bothered by this? I can see why this would be done for "extras", but to have somewhat important characters presented this way was little disappointing.

Very pleased with the game otherwise, by the way. Good job, Tell Tale folks.

Meh, I was more annoyed with them recycling the voice of the Mole from Sam & Max to play the part of the reporter in this game. His voice is just fingernails on the chalkboard to my ears.

[Rather Dashing]

Meh, I was more annoyed with them recycling the voice of the Mole from Sam & Max to play the part of the reporter in this game. His voice is just fingernails on the chalkboard to my ears.
I think that's somewhat intentional.

[LionelM]

Meh, I was more annoyed with them recycling the voice of the Mole from Sam & Max to play the part of the reporter in this game. His voice is just fingernails on the chalkboard to my ears.

Speaking of voices, the glassblower sounded familiar. Can anyone place it?

[broodwars]

I think that's somewhat intentional.

I know, but it didn't make those dialogue trees any more bearable. ;)

[LordKinbote]

The designs for LeChuck, Voodoo Lady, Guybrush and the french doctor were great, but it really seems that every other character was essentially the same two designs re-used except with alterations made to skin color and hair. Was anyone else bothered by this? I can see why this would be done for "extras", but to have somewhat important characters presented this way was little disappointing.

Very pleased with the game otherwise, by the way. Good job, Tell Tale folks.

With all the griping going on on this board, I really didn't want to start a thread about this, and was very surprised that no one else had.

I'm in the same boat. I loved loved loved the game. It was everything I could have wanted in a new Monkey Island game. But the minor character design was just, well, lazy.

The glass blower and Hemlock McGee are basically the same character. If that's not bad enough, the newspaper editor, the captain of the Screaming Narwhal, D'Oro the treasure hunter, and the man at the door of Club 41 are four iterations of the same character. I realize that you guys have to cut corners somewhere, but what was going on was soooo transparent.

[Irishmile]

Yeah TTG re-use their models... its something I have a hard time getting over.... But I understand why they do it... They do not have the money major game developers get to play around with and they have fairly short deadlines.....

[LordKinbote]

Yeah TTG re-use their models... its something I have a hard time getting over.... But I understand why they do it... They do not have the money major game developers get to play around with and they have fairly short deadlines.....

Yes, it's a necessary evil, but two designs for six characters is kinda pushing the limit of what I'm willing to let them get by with.

[Pretender]

it's kinda weird really.. it shouldn't be that hard to make characters look different. I mean, even in other games such as Mass Effect you can create your own faces and make them look different and that's for us to decide. For game devs it should be even easier.

[Rather Dashing]

Yeah....

Re-using the rope bag, bringing in character designs from Texas Hold 'Em, and even dropping in a cow and a chicken from Bone are completely different from pallete-swapping half a dozen characters.

[Irishmile]

but would it be easy to sync lips, animate faces, and bodies?

I ask because I honestly do not know.

[broodwars]

I'll only mind the "palette-swapping" on the minor characters if these characters return (and I have a sinking feeling they will) for the other 4 episodes as well. Considering this series is allegedly not going to re-use locations for every episode, maybe the trade-off was that the minor characters had to be palette-swapped so they could focus on the number of new environments with each episode?

[Zeik56]

it's kinda weird really.. it shouldn't be that hard to make characters look different. I mean, even in other games such as Mass Effect you can create your own faces and make them look different and that's for us to decide. For game devs it should be even easier.

You realize of course that took a significant amount of programming in Mass Effect, correct?

[Frogacuda]

I think that's somewhat intentional.

It's totally intentional. I doubt the "recycling" saved then any time since the characters all had different outfits, bodies, etc, and probably had to be made from scratch. I think the native Flotsamites are all supposed to look the same.

They probably could have addressed this in the script though so people don't get it wrong.

[Pretender]

yeah, but isn't there like an employee dedicated to character design? That's crucial to adventure games.. I don't think it should take THAT long to design 5-6 different characters

[LordKinbote]

I'll only mind the "palette-swapping" on the minor characters if these characters return (and I have a sinking feeling they will) for the other 4 episodes as well. Considering this series is allegedly not going to re-use locations for every episode, maybe the trade-off was that the minor characters had to be palette-swapped so they could focus on the number of new environments with each episode?

Are the people working on character design even the same people working on environment design? I would think those would be two completely separate jobs by two different teams, and therefore "focusing" on one over the other shouldn't come into play.

Of course, I may be completely wrong. Like IrishSmile, I really just don't know enough about how it works.

[LordKinbote]

It's totally intentional. I doubt the "recycling" saved then any time since the characters all had different outfits, bodies, etc, and probably had to be made from scratch. I think the native Flotsamites are all supposed to look the same.

There's no such thing as a native Flotsamite. The Marquis was the first, and everyone else crashed there afterwards.

[Rubarack]

Yes, but they would need a fairly hefty initial investment, so I wouldn't expect it. Whether this is down to what can be afforded, or our perceptions of what can be afforded I'm not sure. My guess is they're playing around with cutting other corners to deal with the recycled locations complaint of all their other games. I'll have to see what I think of it.

That reporters voice though, I kind of accepted the deliberately annoying voice as a mole in Sam and Max, but it was a poor fit in Monkey Island. It just sounds wrong coming out of a human.

[Frogacuda]

Isn't it Jared Emerson Johnson (Sam and Max's composer)? I think he's going for an old-timey 1930s newsman thing. I liked it ok. Wasn't crazy about the character himself, though. The glass blower was my favorite.

[LordKinbote]

Isn't it Jared Emerson Johnson (Sam and Max's composer)? I think he's going for an old-timey 1930s newsman thing. I liked it ok. Wasn't crazy about the character himself, though. The glass blower was my favorite.

I think D'Oro's voice was my favorite. The dance that Guybrush and D'Oro do after finding the Ninja is hilarious.

[Armakuni]

This is one of my very few gripes with the game.

When you think of all the cool secondary characters in the first games in the series, having pretty much identical (and not very interesting looking) characters here is a bit of a letdown in an otherwise excellent game.

[glenfx]

but it really seems that every other character was essentially the same two designs re-used except with alterations made to skin color and hair. Was anyone else bothered by this? I can see why this would be done for "extras", but to have somewhat important characters presented this way was little disappointing.
That's what i was thinking myself.

Meh, I was more annoyed with them recycling the voice of the Mole from Sam & Max to play the part of the reporter in this game. His voice is just fingernails on the chalkboard to my ears.
LOL, so TRUE i just pictured the mole character whenever he spoke... i think it was a bad acting choice from the actor though.


NOW, the characters could have looked different with ease without loosing the animations/bones/etc. they could have used "BLEND SHAPES" for that.

I think it was a bit of laziness on their part.

[Pirateguybrush]

the characters could have looked different with ease without loosing the animations/bones/etc. they could have used "BLEND SHAPES" for that

That's a lot harder than you might imagine. The recycling did bother me though. For characters of that detail, modelling/texturing/rigging them shouldn't be too painful or time consuming that it wouldn't be doable in a relatively short time frame.

[glenfx]

That's a lot harder than you might imagine.
It's not really hard to do, and even less since they have the experience. So it comes down a bit as laziness.

The models don’t bother me though, but the characters are forgettable.

[harlequ1n]

The game is awesome so I second that the only gripe is the somewhat bland character designs... just picture other minor MI characters from the past and all of them were also unique and well designed.

[Sir Tasnica]

I honestly didn't feel a blandness in the characters. The glassblower and the sick guy were a bit forgettable, but I liked the ship captain and the others. The scenes between the captain and Guybrush during the "siege" of the Screaming Narwahl really added a lot of personality to the two, even if there wasn't much dialogue.

[pluizig]

Speaking of voices, the glassblower sounded familiar. Can anyone place it?

Same guy as the reporter (who is the same guy as Sam&Max's mole), if I remember the credits correcly.

[WDeranged]

I noticed the leonard steakcharmer clones, it's a shame given the stylised look of the main characters but hey, at least the game itself is pretty damn cool and is definitely Monkey Island :cool:

[Pirateguybrush]

It's not really hard to do, and even less since they have the experience. So it comes down a bit as laziness.

While technically it's not that challenging to copy animation (though facial is harder), it often looks pretty bad when it's a direct copy. Because you're working with different proportions and models, you can get clipping issues and just bad-looking animation.

[puerca]

Meh, I was more annoyed with them recycling the voice of the Mole from Sam & Max to play the part of the reporter in this game. His voice is just fingernails on the chalkboard to my ears.

His voice is just so distinctive that I think they really need to pick their spots with him. It also distracted me that he voiced another character on the island as well.

[Shale]

Yeah, this is probably the largest problem I've got with the game. The stumpy, big-headed character model is distinctive enough that it grates when you see it too often, and I honestly couldn't tell if the glassblower was supposed to be the same pirate Guybrush punched out in the opening or not.

[Guybrush_Threepwood]

Just think about the pirates you have to fight with in MI1: it's the same thing.
Practically the same sprites with minor changes.

[Shale]

If they were background characters like the swordfighting enemies it wouldn't be worth mentioning. This is like having one of the Flying Fettucini Brothers and that guy who chucks you off the Melee Island pier - not central figures, but distinct characters, with personalities - both share a sprite with Meathook.

[Fausk]

Just think about the pirates you have to fight with in MI1: it's the same thing.
Practically the same sprites with minor changes.

Those guys were all nameless "scrubs" though, and were meant to be, but even as the series went on they started looking more distinct, particularly in Curse. I think it's just that we're saying this is a major step back (even further back than the original game) to have so many similar looking minor characters, and none of these guys were nameless either, they all had names and mini backstories. They could have given us a little more uniqueness to them.

I'll admit though, I didn't notice the similarties between the ship captain, D'Oro, and Nipperkin, so I think they did well enough there, but it may also be that their voices were much more distinct, which helped throw me off.

As for most annoying voice: Hemlock wins. I absolutely despised talking to him, not only did his voice annoy me but he was very difficult to understand.

[Guybrush_Threepwood]

The main issue is that TTG is growing up, but is still a not-so-high budget company.
Things will change as the years pass.

[Junaid]

Hmmm although I really love Monkey Island and Telltale, this annoyed me too
I think that if they use the same models but with different eyes and nose, the difference would be much bigger

[Pirateguybrush]

Jim Henson had a great solution for this. He had these muppets called the whatnots, which had generic oval heads with features that were attached with double sided tape. It's not exactly the same as this situation (3d meshes are less versatile in some ways than muppets), but it's a good idea, and works very well.

[hammy797]

The ship captain and reporter recycle bothered me a little...

[Austin P]

Yeah, I agree that they could've given them a little more variety, minor characters or not. I also feel that most of the characters don't stand out as much personality wise as the previous games, but then, we don't get to know them as well.

[glenfx]

While technically it's not that challenging to copy animation (though facial is harder), it often looks pretty bad when it's a direct copy. Because you're working with different proportions and models, you can get clipping issues and just bad-looking animation.

I said Blend Shapes, with Blend Shapes you can modify the mesh and retain the rig with its animations intact. There is no copying/pasting animation so you don’t get clipping effects. Of course, im not talking about having a dwarf changing into a stylistic tall figure, im talking about facial changes like ears/nose etc.
In essence something lower end similar to what pixar did for the incredibles population characters, only one model that could morph into infinite unique characters, (but of course I will get someone jump with a reply “but that is time consuming and cant compare the two companies because the money and blah blah blah”). You can achieve something similar, with ease, by using a few modifications applied through blend shapes.

That the engine doesn’t support Blend Shapes?... easy, adjust the character's shape then delete the blend shape nodes and export (deleting the blend shape nodes after they where applied will retain the modified shape)

[fajerkaos]

I personly didn't mind it. But I guess I can understand that other do.
I actually liked the the choise for doing this, if I'm going to be totally honest, I was afraid the island would be weirdly under populated, feel empty, Instead I got 7 interesting people to interact with.

[Capotasto]

I... regretfully agree.
I don't wanna poke holes in a good game. But it drains some personality from the characters when they look the same. Unfortunately it's bad for storytelling, in a game which is all about the story (And puzzles... lotsa puzzles!)

[corruptbiggins]

I have to say I didn't noticed until reading threads like this.

I don't know if that's a good thing (about the game) or a bad thing (about me) but there you go!

[PariahKing]

Yeah, same thing as corruptbiggins here.

[the_boo]

I think for the next episode they need to do away with the shiny nature of the character skin as well, it made the models look like they are from a PS1 fmv cutscene, and if copying characters, add more than a beard, they could morph the models and still have skins and skeletons fit.

This game was awesome, but I thought the quality of the visuals were not up to par with those in S&M and especially W&G (where it is sometimes easy to forget it's PC rendered and not clay).

[glenfx]

This game was awesome, but I thought the quality of the visuals were not up to par with those in S&M and especially W&G (where it is sometimes easy to forget it's PC rendered and not clay).
I disagree, Tales of MI is the most visually rich of all telltale games (im not implying the other games are bad) but Tales has much more visual quality.

[faemir]

I think you guys are forgetting that this is one island of many locations - they said no recycling right, so that means there will be a lot of characters - give em a bit of slack eh. Sure it could be better, but there is more reason for it than you are taking into account imo.

In regards to not being as good as W&G / S&M style. The problem there is style. The graphics engine they use is very nicely suited to those (especially W&G) whereas MI is harder to get right.

[Jayel]

I was more disappointed that Guybrush never mentions or brings attention to the fact that the character models are recycled. It would've been a nice homage to the original SOMI.
(If you recall, they recycled backgrounds during swordfighting segments and one of the dialogue options between a random pirate was "ever notice how the forest look all the same?" or something like that.)

[WDeranged]

I was more disappointed that Guybrush never mentions or brings attention to the fact that the character models are recycled. It would've been a nice homage to the original SOMI.
(If you recall, they recycled backgrounds during swordfighting segments and one of the dialogue options between a random pirate was "ever notice how the forest look all the same?" or something like that.)

Yeah, a little fourth wall breaking can definitely help when it comes to stuff like this.

[Meathook]

Am I the only person who found the similar appearance of the captain, D'Oro, the reporter, and the man behind the door of Club 41 humorous? I found it more entertaining than anything. Anyway, can't it be seen as a callback to repeated character designs in SMI? Most of the pirates you fight during insult swordfighting not only have similar clothes, but also similar facial appearances. I think it gives the characters a bond that makes them "Flotsam inhabitants" rather than just a bunch of unrelated characters.

[the_boo]

I disagree, Tales of MI is the most visually rich of all telltale games (im not implying the other games are bad) but Tales has much more visual quality.
I'm going to be very frank and say that (sorry to those that made them) most of the characters looked like ass. Voodoo lady, the Marquis and Le Chuck (who all have notable textures on their faces throughout the game) being the exceptions. It's mostly the faces though, the locations, bodies and the animations were great, but those shiny, shiny faces looked terrible.

[Silver-Streak]

Besides the lack of point and click control, this was the 2nd most disheartening thing about the game. The environments were fantastic, the characters stories themselves were fantastic. The humor was fantastic. The fact that everyone on the island besides the main characters looked like they were from the same 2 families? Not fantastic.

I hope this can be remedied in the future.

[RMJ1984]

maybe we can solve both reusing skins / voices with one stone, maybe Lucas Arts can buy Teltale, they would still be themselves, but have some bigger $$$$$ to spend, or maybe even Blizzard, more money is a good thing :)

We just cant keep having Mole dude, Boscho and that annoying sick man voices ( worst ever btw) Now that Lucas Arts just have redone the Special Edition, surely surely you can borrow some voices actors, as it must be in LA's interest that these game be fun, and voice / music is also a big part of a game :)

[Junaid]

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9960/decava01.jpg

Looks like DeCava will have a familiar face...

[thesporkman]

After a while, I just sort of accepted it as a convention of the game. It was sort of like watching a Monty Python film with the same same six guys playing every role. The only time it was really jarring for me was when the ship captain brushed shoulders with the reporter. I was worried it would cause a temporal paradox or something if they came in direct contact. :P

So which of these guys (http://vip.telltalegames.com/files/monkeyisland/concepts070109/pirates.jpg) do you think we'll see in episode two?

[Pirateguybrush]

I said Blend Shapes, with Blend Shapes you can modify the mesh and retain the rig with its animations intact. Ahhhh, of course. I retract my earlier statements, this would work.

I think for the next episode they need to do away with the shiny nature of the character skin as wellAbsolutely, the skin looked pretty bad.

[Shmeh]

The short pirates didn't bother me in the slightest. The characters were well enough defined that you know who was who. The thing that slightly bothered me was thinking "was that the guy I punch on the beach?" when I saw the tall models. When it get's to this point, then something needs to be done to make the characters more distinctive.

[Barbwirebush]

Blame the Wii, and blame yourself for buying one.:mad:

[A-M-E]

The only time it was really jarring for me was when the ship captain brushed shoulders with the reporter. I was worried it would cause a temporal paradox or something if they came in direct contact. :P

How funny ! I thought the same thing when it happened :p

[onlyamonkey]

Good to know I wasn't the only one going "wth isn't that guy commenting me smacking him on the nose?" when I first saw the unicorn dude.

[LuigiHann]

Yeah, I think the tall characters need more distinct facial hair and skin color differences. 'Tiny moustache" and "no eyebrows" don't really come across at a lower resolution.

[doomsoth]

Meh, I was more annoyed with them recycling the voice of the Mole from Sam & Max to play the part of the reporter in this game. His voice is just fingernails on the chalkboard to my ears.
Yeah, I realized that right off the bat.

[pilouuuu]

Wow! I thought that there were just two guys in disguise in the island. Something like Bosco.

But seriously, maybe in next episodes Telltale will use some recycling, but for nameless NPC, like people walking around the island like in TSOMI. It helps the atmosphere of a living town.

But for secondary characters there needs to be more creativity. At least make some more variety like fat, tall, etc. Maybe some character models can be recycled, but in characters of different islands, not two models for all characters in one island!

[larys]

I think the characters where no pirate enough in purpose. Because the pox of le chuck turn those character back to being pirates again. So Telltales want us to see the defference. So i guess in the chapter 2 of TOMI we will see less softy pirates

[TheMandingo]

I agree, guys, and this is my biggest gripe from an otherwise fun game. The character models are kinda disappointing. I think the quality of the Guybrush model is just fine, but I can't think of another character who didn't make me notice how low-poly or generic they looked. This includes LeChuck, Elaine, and the others. Well, I guess the Voodoo Lady was good enough. A little more design work (and just plain more polygons!) would've helped a lot. But it's fine, at least in this game the 3D characters are still serviceable, and it's not gonna be a huge deal. EMI never really managed to recover from its poor 3D quality, it just continued to distract as I played through it. I shudder to think back on those lovingly pre-rendered backgrounds clashing with brightly-light, flatly-textured blocks of piratey goodness.

I am impressed, though, by the 3D environments and the overall look of the game. It looks like Telltale really was able to marry the cartoonish art style of the Monkey Island series with some good 3D camera work, and with the colors and shaders and everything, the game actually looks pretty good! A little cleaner than I'd like, but impressive nonetheless.



EDIT: Did anyone else notice how the plump character models (D'Oro, Narwhal captain, etc.) kept snapping their fingers? Lol :)

[SuperBosco]

Yeah....

Re-using the rope bag, bringing in character designs from Texas Hold 'Em, and even dropping in a cow and a chicken from Bone
I like to think of thoses as cameos.

[Sam & Gromit]

Speaking of voices, the glassblower sounded familiar. Can anyone place it?

Isn't it Bubs' voice? He especially (but not only) sounds like Bubs when the pox make him speak loud/angry.

[Thriftweed Fancy Pants]

Meh, I was more annoyed with them recycling the voice of the Mole from Sam & Max to play the part of the reporter in this game. His voice is just fingernails on the chalkboard to my ears.

Fortunately, I've not played that particular Sam & Max episode, so I'm not familiar with "the Mole." I agree about the voice though; it's just awful.

Reminds me of Danny DeVito.

[LuigiHann]

It'd be nicer if they had maybe 4 or 5 different templates, so they could reuse them from episode to episode, but still have variety within each episode

[Novotnus]

It's still better than "short fat pirate" model in EMI (pirates fighting in the intro, pirates during the election, Elaine's adviser).

[Spadge]

It's still better than "short fat pirate" model in EMI (pirates fighting in the intro, pirates during the election, Elaine's adviser).

You can't argue with that. It was Attack of the Clones. Back then LucasArts didn't even bother to make different textures for those guys. And they were only in the freaking movies! Compared to that, TMI characters are almost bearable. Still, some fake noses, facial scars, eyepatches and big rubber ears could fix the situation. Characters need to be unique.