Face-off - any logic to it?
 

I'm really stuck with the face-off, I just can't find any logic to it, and guessing doesn't work.

I started a fresh game, uncovered all the faces before doing the first real face-off, but still, I can only pass the first stage.

doing the first stage is easy, 90% of the time I just click randomly and I pass it,
the second one though, never got passed it. I wrote every combination either I or bug-eyed did, and I'm using a new combination, with items neither of us used (the ones I got from the puzzles)

but still, I only get nothing at all, or "partially-original", what? it brand new!

please help, I'm stuck on this.

to the developers - sorry, I really liked the episodes so far, but this puzzle is just plain bad. the only way to win is to memorize 64 combinations and see which ones are original? no logic, just plain luck? this bites, especially if you didn't save before you started and just wasted combinations until you find all the faces, like I did on the first run.
please disregard this rant if there is some hidden logic which I haven't found yet.

The logic is you can't use any of the eyebrows, eyes, or mouth that have already been used in that match. I don't think previous matches count.

If Bugeye starts with eyebrow 2, eye 1, and mouth 3, you can use any eyebrow but 2, any eye but 1, and any mouth but 3. Let's say you use eyebrow 4, eye 2, and mouth 1.

The next round, Bugeye starts, and he'll use an eyebrow that hasn't been used, an eye that hasn't been used, and a mouth that hasn't been used. You then have to pick the only eyebrow, eye, and mouth that have not been used.

I hope this helps!

So this is one of those annoying puzzles that forces one out of the game itself and requires the use of pencil and paper to remember who's used what face already? (Just one paper/pencil exercise with the map/animal sounds in ToMI1 was more than enough.)

And: Is a face "disqualified" if even one of the expressions has already been used?

Developers, this is a seriously annoying puzzle -- and not in a good way, but in a tedious way... almost as tedious as the original swordfight/insult puzzle. It probably ran great in the lab, but after eight tries at face-off, I'm frustrated and bored.

I don't think you really need a pencil and paper to do it, coz its not too difficult to remember those, but if you really need to, I guess you can use them.

Not too great with memorization of even short lists. LOL I'll walk away from it for a day or two -- that may help.

It's pen and paper, but you've gotta have a few of those puzzles. They're fun.

all you have to do is look at the list:

Brows
1 3
2 4

Eyes
5 7
6 8

Mouth
9 11
10 12

If he picks 3.5.10 the first time, pick 4.6.9. Then you know never to pick anything in those columns:

Brows
1 X
2 X

Eyes
X 7
X 8

Mouth
X 11
X 12

All you have to do is pick the other expression in the same column that he picked both times. You can do the same thing with rows instead. pencil and/or paper not remotely necessary.

If Bugeye starts with angry cross-eyed gomer then for the rest of the match neither combatant can use angry, cross-eyed or gomer on any of their faces. If you were to use angry tweeking monkey against it it wouldn't work becasue angry has already been used.

After the first round six words out of the twelve should have been used. Bugeye will then use another three words. All you have to do is use the three words that haven't been used yet in either round.

It's not broken, you just have to know how it works.

I've passed the face-off game,
I first understood it as: the combination should be unique (between games)
so if I used 1-1-1 and bugeye used 2-4-1, then I can't use those two combinations again (but I can use 1-1-2 for example)

thanks to nWeCinematics I now understand the rules.

I still think that this puzzle is bad (less bad than I thought at first, but still bad)

In "Insult sword fighting game" in the first MI, there was logic to the insults. you had to learn the insults, but once you knew them, they were just the logical comeback.
"You fight like a dairy farmer" -> "How appropriate. You fight like a cow"

then, when you got to the swords master, all her insults were new, but still, you could choose the right comeback from your stock:
"I will milk every drop of blood from your body!" -> "How appropriate. You fight like a cow"

here, there is no logical rule, just "choose whichever face hasn't been chosen before"

How is that not a logical rule?

It's a memory rule, not a logical rule.

if we look again at the insult sword-fighting, the first part was logic which could be replaced by memory, I mean you could have memorized the whole response set, but you could also connect between "dairy farmer" and "cow" without actually memorizing it, and the second part (swords master) was pure logical, you needed to connect "milk" to "cow" without ever seeing that insult before.

here, you just memorize, you couldn't apply logic (e.g. "cross-eye" is a response to "lazy-eye") even if you wanted to.

The logic is to not use the same facial expression. Originality is key.

They tell you multiple times originality is the key and partial originality is almost as bad as no originality. I really don't see how you don't see the logic in it.

were are not using the same sense of the word logic here.

when I'm talking about a "logic game" I'm talking about a game that requires the act of inducing the next step.

take for example two classical games:
1) The Memory Game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration_%28game%29
2) Mastermind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterm...8board_game%29

The first is a memory game (hence the name), all you need to finish the game is a good memory and knowing the rules of the game (rules, not logical rules)

The second is a "logic game", in order to finish the game, you must infer from the rows you have played so far which row to place next. so if you had 2 "in-place" balls and 2 "out-of-place" balls, you know that you need to swap two balls, and if in a previous row played you already got a hint to which balls to swap, you can finish the game by act of logical inference.

So while the face-off game has logic to it, in the sense that it isn't completely random, it is not a "logic game".

I'll give you that the actual mini game wasn't a logic game, but figuring the rules out was.

Well, on here we generally use the term "logical puzzle" as meaning it makes sense. There are some illogical puzzles in previous games that don't make any sense and just require luck or random trying of everything to pass. Which is a bad puzzle.

Where do I get the different faces.

From the other characters by saying ARRRR to them
ANd one or two different objects

I agree that the mini game would have been interesting if there were some rock-paper-scissors element to it rather than just making sure you don't repeat quirks. But that would probably require a whole lot more characters in the game (kinda like those pirates walking around Melee Island) or something. As it is, it's still a lot of fun, especially the Gomer.

Anyway, if you're looking for more "logic-based" puzzles ala Insult Sword Fighting, you'll actually get one near the end game. Everyone's happy! :)

ARRR!
You use pencil and paper for that? With the right strategy, you can solve this puzzle without any pencil and paper. All you need are very basic memory skills (being able to remember 3 expression at a time...).

Remember the first face of Bugeye (3 expressions). Now choose for each expression the other one that is in the same column, so right below or above Bugeyes expression. This is of course a new face... In the second round, remember Bugeyes second face, you can forget his and your first face. Now just do the same as before: Choose for each expression the other one that is in the same column... this will be the only "original" face left...

I liked the puzzle, also because I like to have lot of different kinds of puzzles, that makes it more entertaining. And the old "choose-the-corresponding-answer-to-my-question"-game will appear later in the game, as Nicmanahan pointed out already.